One could stipulate tat they are failures for not quickly saturating the market and making money.

I'm with Steve Jobs on this Zune thing. I don't know anyone who owns Zune either.

Nobody has ever even mentioned the word Zune. I don't even know where to buy Zune if I somehow on drunken state would think so :D

iPods on the other hand are everywhere (I have iPod Shuffle too)

Originally posted by OFI:

---

Meh I love my Zune 1, people ask when they see it if it is an Ipod, I just say no it's like an Ipod, does all the same stuff but at half the price :P

---

Strange, I could swear that the Zune costs exactly the same as the equivalent iPod.

Originally posted by Amir89:

---

. It costs twice to threes more than an equivalent player from iRiver or Creative yet has a 20% failure rate among most models, horrible battery life, insanely overpriced and useless accessories and pointless capacities like 80Gb-160Gb.... ?? Who honestly needs to carry around with them that much music?
Couldn't see a use for that unless your planning to circumnavigate the Earth in a wooden raft.

---

Really? I can get a brand new 80GB player for $80-$160? Where can I get a 160GB player for $110-$170? Where can I get a player with the features of the 8GB touch for $90-$180?

Quote:

---

On the other hand MS go out and design a proprietary Mp3 player which technically sounds a lot better than Apple with wireless syncing, wide codec support and a decent price, but then they give it a typical "MS makeover" and load with so much DRM, proprietary software and nonsense that your swimming in bloatware. Apparently you can't even use the Zune as a USB storage device...

Their both so overhyped and ridiculously pointless I don't see why everyone makes such a big deal out of them.

---

Actually the Zune itself only supports MPeg/H.264. The software converts everything else.

zune wiki

Quote:

---

functions as management software for the device and library and as a client to the online music store. The old version was a modified version of Windows Media Player 11, and the latest version is built from the ground up, with additional DirectShow decoders for AAC, MPEG-4 and H.264, it supports the following formats — for audio: MP3 (.mp3), AAC (Low complexity) (.aac, .mp4, .m4a, .m4b, .mov), WMA (.wma); for video: MPEG4 (in .mp4, .m4v and .mov containers), H.264 (in .mp4, .m4v and .mov containers), WMV (.wmv), ASF (.asf); and for still images: JPEG (.jpg). It synchronizes music, pictures, videos and podcasts to the device.

---

My goodness, such a commotion. I hate to break anyones heart but Steve Jobs is right. I have read and literally "felt" the waves of emotion pouring off of some of you. It boils down to this folks, if you bought a PC (any brand at all) you bought junk. Windows (which you paid for) is also junk. You see I have been paying very close attention to the wants of the public at large since the old BETAMAX vs. VHS thing. Again I hate to break it to you but Beta was better, video and audio. VHS tapes and machines were cheaper. But it comes down to this, Joe Public doesn't want GOOD, he wants CHEAP. You have a taste for the cheapest hardware (a PC) and all that huge body of free software for the PC and its mostly garage-made, home-brewed, unbridled crap). You get what you pay for. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple. Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate. After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.

Originally posted by macmante:

---

My goodness, such a commotion. I hate to break anyones heart but Steve Jobs is right. I have read and literally "felt" the waves of emotion pouring off of some of you. It boils down to this folks, if you bought a PC (any brand at all) you bought junk. Windows (which you paid for) is also junk. You see I have been paying very close attention to the wants of the public at large since the old BETAMAX vs. VHS thing. Again I hate to break it to you but Beta was better, video and audio. VHS tapes and machines were cheaper. But it comes down to this, Joe Public doesn't want GOOD, he wants CHEAP. You have a taste for the cheapest hardware (a PC) and all that huge body of free software for the PC and its mostly garage-made, home-brewed, unbridled crap). You get what you pay for. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple. Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate. After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.

---

you do of coarse realize that leopard is as fcked up as vista/ME in comparison to XP to ME/Vista in comparison to OSX to leopard..... not to mention nothing worthwhile runs on a mac and its propitiatory double premium hardware....


I cut my MS chains I refuse to pay for thier products I dont and when I got I keep my bolt cutters handy and remove the WGA crap,the main reason everyone uses MS products is because everything is made for them.

As for copy cating.....ummm.....it started around the time one businessmen got jealous of another and copied his stick....so drop the elitist vitriol already......sheeshh....


And if you want to bitch about money grubbing look at the Ipod and Itunes and tel me they are not gouging people off tho things!

WTF are you talking about!?

Leopard is much better then Tiger! If anything, it's just a big update, which solved many of the problems I was having! To me, Tiger was like Vista. It wasn't as messed up, but there were some pretty extreme annoyences... One I had was everytime I plugged in my iPod or PSP and was viewing their folders and such, after a couple clicks the finder would chrash and all of my folders closed! I'd always have to re-open them and such, but ever since I downloaded Leopard, all of those annoying problems have disappeared :)

BTW I think M$ is more gabbage then Apple just because they're charging $200 for a load of BS that no one wants to deal with(Vista) lol

And I have to agree with the point that Apple has made some pretty great things, one being the first to make a laptop with wireless internet and their Base Station.

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

WTF are you talking about!?

Leopard is much better then Tiger! If anything, it's just a big update, which solved many of the problems I was having! To me, Tiger was like Vista. It wasn't as messed up, but there were some pretty extreme annoyences... One I had was everytime I plugged in my iPod or PSP and was viewing their folders and such, after a couple clicks the finder would chrash and all of my folders closed! I'd always have to re-open them and such, but ever since I downloaded Leopard, all of those annoying problems have disappeared :)

BTW I think M$ is more gabbage then Apple just because they're charging $200 for a load of BS that no one wants to deal with(Vista) lol

And I have to agree with the point that Apple has made some pretty great things, one being the first to make a laptop with wireless internet and their Base Station.

---

They didn't invent he wheel mouse.....took them forever to get 3 button mice....

Mmm I might have got tiger and leopard revesered, oh and windoses is only 130-200 so meh XP i far more stable and compatible than any other OS out including ME2.

The main problem with MAC will forever be locked hardware and lack of software support,if they ca buy a a emulation system that can run 3D games and open the ahrdware to work with most vendors I would try it but I'll take windose simple because its cheaper in EVERYTHING.

U know..Im not a hater of apple or MS, I just hate when ppl go after something and buy something, just cuz everyone has it.
Im not goan buy an ipod because all my friends have it. I did buy a Zune because it was 30 gigs for 130 bucks
thats a pretty good deal to me..I do agree that itunes seems more organized and better than the zune software but what I hate on ipods is that it has the click wheel which i honestly hate and i think the apples break easily, just stop working all of a sudden, more than any other mp3 player.
And I dont mind the size of the zune, lots of ipod users tell me ohh its so big. So what, at least i feel like im holding something stronger...
I would have bought a 30 gig creative because I absolutely think thats the best brand of mp3 players but it was too expensive.

...streaming HD to become a viable option.
Hah i would like to see ppl with download cap try to download movies over 8gb´s... not to mentione the bandwidth requirments for the service side and torrent tech is still far away from minds of distributeurs. What i have heard most ppl in states can not even have 8mb/s connection so it would be faster to drive the store and buy the damn dics and you can watch it multiple times. downloaded content can easyly be lost when your hdd crashes.

Steaming hd can be the future, but a distant future. Most ppl just dont have enought bandwidth to get real 1080 picture in reasonable time.

i have phone to play my mp3 s i dont need my pockets to be filled with crap that can only do one thing. Phones are grate now a days they are phones, cameras, tv ,radio, mp3 player etc on one device.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

WTF are you talking about!?

Leopard is much better then Tiger! If anything, it's just a big update, which solved many of the problems I was having! To me, Tiger was like Vista. It wasn't as messed up, but there were some pretty extreme annoyences... One I had was everytime I plugged in my iPod or PSP and was viewing their folders and such, after a couple clicks the finder would chrash and all of my folders closed! I'd always have to re-open them and such, but ever since I downloaded Leopard, all of those annoying problems have disappeared :)

BTW I think M$ is more gabbage then Apple just because they're charging $200 for a load of BS that no one wants to deal with(Vista) lol

And I have to agree with the point that Apple has made some pretty great things, one being the first to make a laptop with wireless internet and their Base Station.

---

They didn't invent he wheel mouse.....took them forever to get 3 button mice....

Mmm I might have got tiger and leopard revesered, oh and windoses is only 130-200 so meh XP i far more stable and compatible than any other OS out including ME2.

The main problem with MAC will forever be locked hardware and lack of software support,if they ca buy a a emulation system that can run 3D games and open the ahrdware to work with most vendors I would try it but I'll take windose simple because its cheaper in EVERYTHING.

---

They "lack" stuff because they aren't as big as windows but they are getting bigger. I have everything I need anyways. Bit torrent, Halo, NFSU 2, iWork, iLife, and 13340 NES games.

If you want cheap then why don't you build your own computer and then put linux on it :P

I use Windows, and I like it. I've used Tiger and liked it too. The only thing holding me back from getting a MAC is that I couldn't do half the things I do on my PC on one. I'm sure I could do alternatives, but that is moronic.

As for the whole Zune v. Ipod thing, I've seen some Zunes around campus, but not nearly as many Ipods. I've seen reviews saying the new Zune is a great alternative, but I think Apple has a grip on the market. Regardless of the make of your mp3 player, when someone asks you about it they always call it in Ipod. People always ask me if my Creative (Now mind you it doesn't even have a color screen and is an inch thick) is an Ipod and it was made five years ago. I do have a Nano, and I used it a lot, but now that I got a decent sized micro SD card for my Samsung phone, there is no use for the Nano.

Originally posted by macmante:

---

My goodness, such a commotion. I hate to break anyones heart but Steve Jobs is right. I have read and literally "felt" the waves of emotion pouring off of some of you. It boils down to this folks, if you bought a PC (any brand at all) you bought junk. Windows (which you paid for) is also junk. You see I have been paying very close attention to the wants of the public at large since the old BETAMAX vs. VHS thing. Again I hate to break it to you but Beta was better, video and audio. VHS tapes and machines were cheaper. But it comes down to this, Joe Public doesn't want GOOD, he wants CHEAP. You have a taste for the cheapest hardware (a PC) and all that huge body of free software for the PC and its mostly garage-made, home-brewed, unbridled crap). You get what you pay for. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple. Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate. After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.

---

@ Fanboy

Sorry to burst your apple pie but they were not the first with touch screen phones. Their piss pour attempt at it is even funnier.

Your arguement about GOOD vs. CHEAPER is dumb too. If that were the case HD-DVD wouldn't be on its death bed reading DO NOT RESUSCIATE.

On imitating/stealing...Good thing Apple didn't have to pay Creative a butt load of money huh? I wonder how many apple pies you can buy with $100 million dollars?

Apple is the biggest ME TOO out there.

Find your inner ZEN and respect yourself.

Originally posted by rosedog:

---

@ Fanboy

Sorry to burst your apple pie but they were not the first with touch screen phones. Their piss pour attempt at it is even funnier.

---

It wasn't the first (so you say, i don't know), but I definatly wouldn't call it piss poor since so many people want one... I want one just because it has so much support right now with emulators and such... They're just too expensive with the plans and all and do not have enough space for me right now. Otherwise, I think its a pretty great phone, especially for a first attempt.

Oh My God People Get real you let this fanboy make one comment and you guys all over him you did just what he wanted. Your spamming for him.

As for Mister Jobs Get real buddy Your Apple is going out i dont get it. this is the new age of media is it not. yet the old greedy Suits want some piece of the pie they dont deserve RIAA/MPAA/THE BIG 4
Did THey make the music? Did they make the Movies? No.

As for you guys That dont know the Kenbak-1 was the first Personel computer. created by a man named John Blankenbaker. even IBM's were a mere imatation. on another note Microsoft Has never made there own hardware. and the only computer Steve Jobs made was his apple 2 computer.his freind Steve Wozniak made the first apple computer. after this, apple corp. went to Motorola for is cheapchips and after they wrote off apple's contract because of violations. apple corp. then went to G series processors.

PC's are cheap not because of being crap ( pc's & mac's use the same crossover hardware like chips,harddrives etc..lmao) but because of competition from other manufacturers duh!,yeah anyway who give a toss what jobs or anyone else says, anything that has software is bound to have massive bugs in it right down to bloody cellphones..lol.. as for blue-ray winning the format war pffffft i'll believe it when it's official,what's the song "don't believe the hype"

Originally posted by macmante:

---

My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple.

Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate.


After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.

---

Learn your Operation Systems mate.

Windows is based on the Amiga OS a much cleaner and better system than what Apple had at the time, fully multitasking back when MS DOS/Windows and Mac OS could only run 1 program at a time, also had support for 65,000 colours back when windows only support 16 and then 32 colours and Mac OS only did 16 colours.

Amiga OS had a 2 button mouse, the Mac has never had a 2 button mouse.

Symbian Phones have had a touch screen well before the Iphone and winCE/WM05/6 were out.

Apple only brought out Ipods after Creative had their HDD MP3 players out for few years and Apple had the gall to sue Creative over Creative using their user interface, even though Creative had come up with the design, what BS.

I think Apple people need to get their hand off it sometimes and actually look around at the new age gadgets before proclaiming Apple to be the designer of all these gadgets.

whoa those are harsh words. ipod might be on top now... but steven should remember that once you're on top theres no where to go but down.

Originally posted by twosocks:

---

whoa those are harsh words. ipod might be on top now... but steven should remember that once you're on top theres no where to go but down.

---

Or they could just stay at the top...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by twosocks:

---

whoa those are harsh words. ipod might be on top now... but steven should remember that once you're on top theres no where to go but down.

---

Or they could just stay at the top...

---

Ya... that's what they all think right before they smack face first into the ground. You can only be on top for so long before you screw up.

Actually, Xerox invented the first true window-based GUI (Wiki here)

The genaeology from there is the Lisa (o.O $10,000 PC zzz)and then the mac. The Apple Lisa (Wiki here) pretty much finalized the basic GUI concepts for the Mac and was begun in 1978 >.>

So, hmmm.

Oh, the final irony is, the first several iterations of the Mac's OS were writeen by... Microsoft xD. That's exactly why Apple sued; They claimed (rightly) that he'd taken what he used for Windows from his work on the Apple OS. Well, duh. =/

I wanted to try out the Zune before i got my ipod, but as it's only sold in the US i went for the ipod. I think that if MS go international with the Zune, it will give the ipod a real run for the top spot.

LOL

microsoft vs. apple fanboys go at it

who really cares about it all? buy what you like and stick with it

I am starting to like Steve not because his the boss of Apple but because he says wat he thinks and does not care of the ramifications i guess thats wat u can do when ur loaded :P