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US HDTV owners don't want Blu-ray

3 June 2008 16:40 by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz | 84 comments

According to an NPD report, only 9 percent of US HDTV owners plan to buy a Blu-ray disc player in the next six months.

The survey by NPD was carried out in the middle of March, after Blu-ray killed off the rival HD DVD format. Although sentiments may have changed in the months since the survey was taken, I would assume the numbers are still pretty accurate, considering reports of Blu-ray sales show declining results.

The survey also showed that about 40 million US homes have at least one HDTV and that 9 percent amounts to a lowly 3.6 million units.

There was however, more interesting numbers to note. NPD added that only 45 percent of HDTV owners had even heard of Blu-ray or HD DVD meaning that 22 million HDTV owners were not even familiar with HD optical formats.

For their similar survey in 2007, NPD found that 65 percent of HDTV owners had not heard of the formats. A 10 percent increase over the course of a year? Clearly Blu-ray is not doing something right.

Most of the people surveyed also noted that they were more than happy with DVD picture quality and HD upscaling and that for now, Blu-ray was simply not worth it. However, of the people surveyed who had already bought into Blu-ray, 80 percent said their next purchases will be BDs rather than DVDs. Picture quality was the main reasoning behind that.

Blu-ray players

Sony BDP-S500

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Panasonic DMP-BD30K

Sony PlayStation 3 60GB

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Permalink to this article | Topics: Blu-ray HD DVD HDTV

Syntax-Brillian, maker of Olevia HDTVs, files for bankruptcy (9 July 2008)

HD DVD coming back from the dead in China? (3 July 2008)

Update: Panasonic denies OLED reports (29 June 2008)

Amazon and Tower start Blu-ray sales (12 June 2008)

Blue Underground unveils Blu-ray roadmap (5 June 2008)

LG introduces three new Blu-ray drives (3 June 2008)

World's first Blu-ray music only disc announced (2 June 2008)

Toshiba set to launch "Blu-ray killer" DVD technology (30 May 2008)

BDA grants licenses to Chinese manufacturers (30 May 2008)

Sony's Stringer talks out about PS3 profitability and Blu-ray (29 May 2008)

Amazon launches huge summer Blu-ray sale (28 May 2008)

Specialty stores expect Blu-ray to surpass DVD in August (28 May 2008)

Panasonic to deliver cheaper, slimmer BD-Live enabled Blu-ray players (22 May 2008)

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ematrix (Junior Member) 7 June 2008 20:06
VHS movies in their life span weren't as expensive as you say, since they were priced gobally for roughly US$10 each, and the first DVD movies were released in 1997 (the first line of Warner's titles) which were priced gobally for roughly US$15 each. DVD succeeded because it offered a compelling alternative to VHS, and as the years went by, DVD hardware prices went much below that the prices for VHS hardware back in 1997, that consumers saw DVD as an appealing and inexpensive alternative not only for playing movies and TV shows, but also to record them. In 1997, a VHS VCR was sold roughly for US$150, now you can pay US$50 for a DVD player or a DVD recorder. VHS blank tapes were sold for US$1 each, now you can pay less than 30 cents for a DVD blank disc. Granted that prices for BD players will decrease in the following years, yet isn't promising when BD recordable media (recorders and blank discs) are still very expensive, with no indication of a decrease in price for the near future. Also even so manufacting costs have decresed in the past years, DVD movies have been overpriced when new releases are priced globally for US15-25 each; I agree with you that we should be paying much less for new DVD releases than we do now, I for one aren't eager to pay US$30-60 for a BD movie, which is what BD movies are priced gobally, when I have struggled to purchase overpriced DVD releases, and have no warranty that prices for BD movies will came down any time soon, at least not gobally, nor that history will not repeat itself as it did with prices for DVD movies in the past decade. Consider that previous format changes have involved new phisical media (vinyl records and audio cassettes to compact discs, VHS videotape to DVD discs) yet BD is another optical disc, which is physically identical to DVD. Indeed HD is the direction of the future for home video entertaiment, but I for one aren't eager to invest on BD, when the era of optical discs is slowly fading away, as other non-optical disc media are rising, such as USB and Flash cards. Currently DVD-Video is the dominant form of home video distribution worldwide, as they still dominate with around 97% of video sales, and a large majority of consumers are satisfied with DVDs quality, which is confirmed by the survey in this article, as even so a lot of U.S. homes already own a HDTV (which is required to take advantage of Blu-ray's capabilities) that hasn't been enough to convice them on the ordeal of replacing equipment and movies for BD counterparts. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7 June 2008 21:34
Mr-Movies (Member) 8 June 2008 6:29
Your arguement about optical media doesn't hold water. Chip Memory & Magnetic storage are MUCH older technologies and have serious faults that have actually promoted optical technology for large based storage, that if taken care of lasts longer and performs better. You are wrong about DVD's as well, you could get them way back in 94'-95' they just weren't mass produced until 97', the end of 97'. And yes to buy a VHS taped movie, not a player, it was $70 to over $100USD and remained more expensive then buying a DVD movie for sometime. My first VHS Player/Recorder was $1000USD in the early 80's it was a 4 head HiFi NEC bought from BesyBuy. It was expensive because it was one of the first 4 head HiFi decks. With optical storage capable of storing 1TB or greater with long term reliable storage capability it won't be going away anytime soon flash drives just don't cut it compared to optical storage. Don't take me wrong though USB drives have there place and work pretty well in their nich. [ + quote]
nopcbs (Newbie) 8 June 2008 10:24
Put that way, I agree, especially since I think Wal-Mart gives you 90 days to bring it back, so when it breaks (not if, when) you can take it back. - nopcbs *Quote:* *Originally posted by juankerr:* If BluRay players are overpriced by $200 then how much should this weekend's $198 Maganavox sell for at Walmart? Well here's the deal: Walmart gives you the Magnavox player for free PLUS $2 store credit so you can get some Altoids chewing gum. Sounds like a winner to me. [ + quote]
nopcbs (Newbie) 8 June 2008 10:52
Any studio that tries to be the first to phase out DVD is cutting its own throat. The market for DVD's IS the market with Blu Ray a side-show. The side-show will likely get less relevent if the Toshiba technology to launch this fall is close to what Toshiba says it will be. Think about it from the standpoint of a non-Blu ray owner: You have an upconverting DVD player and a modest (42" or smaller) HD TV set. You have a library of DVD's that look pretty darned good, not quite HD, but very good. You can get any new DVD as a rental for modest cost, easilly. You can get a Blu Ray player for a relatively large out-lay. You will own no Blu ray disks you can watch. You can buy Blu Ray disks, some of which will look significantly better than the DVD version, but most of which (and pretty much all re-issues) will only look a little better and virtually all will cost some 50% than a DVD, sometimes a LOT more. If you want to rent, you will have a small slection and get to pay more for the rental (unless you are NetFlixing and that will not last). If you NetFlix your Blu Ray, you will get to wait quite a while until a disk is available if it is a new release (been there, done that). On the Horizon is the Toshiba technology that will list at $200 and, no dount, promptly drop to under $150. The technology (whether just very good or excellent)will work with EVERY DVD. What would you buy as Joe User? I think that, just maybe, Sony won a pyrric victory that will cost them a LOT. Could not have happened to a nicer company. - nopcbs *Quote:* *Originally posted by susieqbbb:* Here is mainly why people in the united states are not purchasing blu-ray. TO $%^$ EXPENSIVE. Why spend 400.00 for a blu-ray player when you can get a up converter dvd player for 79.99 and why spend 40 dollers for a blu-ray movie when i can get the dvd version for $9.99 to $20.00. SONY NEEDS TO LOOK AT THIS: CHEAPER IS BETTER. To you that may be, but not to all. I prefer to have the best quality experience OVER quantity of titles just because of a low price. Sooner or later DVD will be phased out (though it will be a long ways out) but having the ability to satisfy those who can appreciate and afford better quality is good. I don't get all my stuff in HD (mainly because it is not available yet) but even if it was I probably wouldn't bother as somethings are perfectly fine in upscaled DVD. [ + quote]
ematrix (Junior Member) 8 June 2008 15:36
I agree with you, no movie studio will dare to phase out DVD, when is the dominant mass market and preffered by more than 97% of global consumers, including a large percentage of U.S. consumers as this article states; probally Blu-ray will have a harder time reaching the masses, if Toshiba's Super Resolution technology is close to what they says it will be. First of all, any kind of storage media isn't infallible, yet chip memories and magnetic storage media withstands a higher resilience than optical discs, certanly users don't worry about typical disc defects such as scratches and fingerprints... even movie studios store films digital masters on HDDs, since currently it's the most reliable way to preserve them. Even the hard coating on BD discs, granted is more resistant than DVD discs, yet isn't infallible; also the inner layer on optical discs could oxidate if it wasn't sealed properly, regardless if you rarely reproduce the discs, and you have taken care of them to prevent exposure to dust, sunlight, heat, etc. The fact is that optical discs with more than 50GB storage capable it's still under development, and it won't be a reality anytime soon. But HDD with 1TB or greater with long term reliable storage capability are availible today, as well as Flash drives with 32GB storage capability. Granted that it's pricy to get them, but worth the expense. In regards to VHS, first of all the average price for a VHS VCR in the early 80's was US$600, but i'll agree that it's possible that more expensive 4 head HiFi models were availible at that time, yet you have to consider that VHS primary target in the 80's was the rental market, and the offering of VHS copies on sale at stores was very limited, since they didn't believe consumers would actually want to own a copy. VHS approach towards rental markets in the 80's, is what lead the current attitude of video rental stores, that they must have new releases much before than they're offered to consumers, in order to profit from rentals. But in the early 90's they began mass producing VHS movies for sale, which were sold at first roughly for US$20 each, and due to its success they increased mass production and copies were sold roughly for US$10 each for several years, until DVD was introduced back in 1997. DVD's specs for the DVD player and DVD-ROM were finalized in December 1995, and U.S. mass retailer sales of DVD players began in late 1997, but mass global inseption was at early 1998 at most; also the first DVD titles (which came from Warner) were released gobally at that time, which were priced for roughly US$15 each. I don't know how you can say that you could get both players and movies way back in 1994-95. Back in 1997 global prices for VHS VCRs were US$150 and US$10 for VHS movies, while DVD players were US$600 and US$15 for DVD movies; today global prices for DVD players are US$50 and US$15-25 for DVD movies, while global prices for BD players are US$600 and US$30-60 for BD movies. In such comparason you can realize that even so prices for BD players may decrease gobally in the following years, there's no warranty that will be the case also for BD movies, since DVD movies are still overpriced and didn't decrease in price as the hardware did, even so it's cheaper to produce DVD movies now than back in 1997. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8 June 2008 15:49
NexGen76 (Member) 8 June 2008 15:47
*Originally posted by mspurloc:* Gee, where have I heard this before? Oh, right. Just from...EVERYONE! Sony blew it with their price gouging. I'm waiting for the next big thing and so are all the people I know who weren't foolish enough to buy into Blu Ray. Anytime there is new tech its not going to be cheap.Blu-Ray didn't blow anything DVD had a very high cost when it launched & DVD players was 500-600 dollars when they first launched.Wait til the price go down then buy.Price gouging i think not...they got to cover production cost which is going to be high because components for players are going to be high @ first & thats a cost they can't control early in production. [ + quote]
nopcbs (Newbie) 8 June 2008 18:36
DVD was a quantom leap over VHS both in picture quality, sound quality, durability, size, convenience, you name it. Blu Ray is a modest improvement at great cost over the best DVD's. Basically, a one trick pony in that regard (picture is better as is sound, but few people have really good sound systems that can show off the improvement, so it's just picture quality). When we start seeing Blu Ray players and Blu ray disks at maybe 20% over the price of a good DVD player/disk AND ready availablility of Blu Ray disks for rental at the same price as DVD's, then and only then will Blu Ray be a significant player. Otherwise, it's a niche market that cannot last. Like I said, if the new Toshiba splits the difference between the best Blu Ray and what we now have with up-converted DVD's, it's end of story for Blu Ray. - nopcbs *Quote:* *Originally posted by mspurloc:* Gee, where have I heard this before? Oh, right. Just from...EVERYONE! Sony blew it with their price gouging. I'm waiting for the next big thing and so are all the people I know who weren't foolish enough to buy into Blu Ray. Anytime there is new tech its not going to be cheap.Blu-Ray didn't blow anything DVD had a very high cost when it launched & DVD players was 500-600 dollars when they first launched.Wait til the price go down then buy.Price gouging i think not...they got to cover production cost which is going to be high because components for players are going to be high @ first & thats a cost they can't control early in production. [ + quote]
Mr-Movies (Member) 9 June 2008 8:16
Wow to be ignorant and pride yourself on it. BD-HD technology is just as much better then DVD's as VHS was to DVD, upconverting is just a joke making a high low res picture higher doesn't make it better it just converts it higher and can make it worst in some cases. Super Res will also be dead and not fly. Why would I spend a lot of monies for a better upconversion method (algorithms) this isn't true HD and definitely isn't in the same ball park as BD, it is just a better way to upconvert and you need special gear to achieve it. Again Toshiba is falling well below the mark as they did with HD-DVD's which has cost them big. I guess Toshiba is going for broke now. Here is a good article on Super Resolution: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/05/09/toshiba_cell_strategy/ Now you can buck change that is you prerogative but that doesn't change facts no matter what your bias is, like hating Sony so bad you won't buy a good product from them. I hate Sony too but their TV's are some of the best so I consider buying them and BD is in that same light. *Originally posted by ematrix:* First of all, any kind of storage media isn't infallible, yet chip memories and magnetic storage media withstands a higher resilience than optical discs, certanly users don't worry about typical disc defects such as scratches and fingerprints... even movie studios store films digital masters on HDDs, since currently it's the most reliable way to preserve them. Even the hard coating on BD discs, granted is more resistant than DVD discs, yet isn't infallible; also the inner layer on optical discs could oxidate if it wasn't sealed properly, regardless if you rarely reproduce the discs, and you have taken care of them to prevent exposure to dust, sunlight, heat, etc. The fact is that optical discs with more than 50GB storage capable it's still under development, and it won't be a reality anytime soon. But HDD with 1TB or greater with long term reliable storage capability are availible today, as well as Flash drives with 32GB storage capability. Granted that it's pricy to get them, but worth the expense. Here we go again that pride thing with a misguided lack of knowledge. Disk arrays provide very large storage capability but that doesn�t make it more reliable it just makes it larger. They still have to do a very slow and awkward tape backup(s) or have redundant arrays off site to protect this storage using RAID technology. They could use an array of optical drives and some do. Once you store to an optical you can put it away and be assured it will remain reliable recovery, that�s is totally not true with HDD�s or MAG tapes, unless of course you are a real moron that doesn�t know how to handle and take care of the media like putting it in the Sun or pinching the disc(s) or scratching the layer(s) buy laying it on the floor and sliding it around like a wake board. If stupidity is your argument give it up but again that doesn�t change the facts. Oh and buy the way I think it was Magnavox demo�d a 1TB BD drive in Australia a year ago so they aren�t very far away. The bottom line is that BD will be the new format as DVD�s were in their childhood Super-Res isn�t going to change that. DVD�s will be around for some time to come too. So arguing who sold more by a date or what prices were doesn�t really matter at all. You have a choice keep up with technology or being happy with the old and there is nothing wrong with still enjoying DVD�s. People when they see how much nicer HD is are going to side with HD that is happening now and as the prices drop there will be even more of an insurgence to that market. [ + quote]
Mez (Senior Member) 9 June 2008 8:24
Mr-Movies, good point though I also disagree with your numbers. Better for cheaper sells. Better for way more expensive can not be expected to do nearly as well. People do not mind paying more for the players if they can 'get it back' in 10 or so movies. There are too many persons out there that refuse to be exploited by the media mafia. I refuse to pay even $20 for something that costs $.2 to make. It has to be half that and a wonderful flick for me to concider. At Half that again it only needs to be a good movie. I figure there are way more people with my sentiments than are willing to pay for blue - ray disks. If they are willing to pay good for them. I might be buying them myself if I had triple the disposable money I now have (which is pitiful right now with energy prices killing me). The reason why many houses even have HD TVs is because regular TV is going out the window next year. It is not to watch Blue Ray Disks. [ + quote]
juankerr (Member) 9 June 2008 8:30
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/bl...on-outpaces-dvd Demand For BluRay Replication Outpaces DVD[Singulus] *Quote:* Singulus has revealed that consumers are adopting Blu-ray faster than they did DVD, with the company having received 21 orders for Blu-ray dual-layer machines in the first quarter. The information was revealed to shareholders at the technology manufacturer's Annual General Meeting of the Singulus Technologies in Frankfurt and directly contradicted claims by Microsoft's Robbie Bach that consumers were hesitant to upgrade to Blu-ray. "This means that the orders for Blu-ray in the first year of the dual layer technology already by far exceeded the volume at the start of the DVD eleven years ago with 17 machines," said Stefan A Baustert, CEO of Singulus. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9 June 2008 8:34
error5 (Senior Member) 9 June 2008 9:45
*Originally posted by nopcbs:* On the Horizon is the Toshiba technology that will list at $200 and, no dount, promptly drop to under $150. The technology (whether just very good or excellent)will work with EVERY DVD. What would you buy as Joe User? Joe User would ignore the new Toshiba SRT players and get the $39 upconverter. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5584897 Pioneer Kuro 50" PDP-5010FD 1080p Plasma With 24fps input and 3:3 72Hz Playback - ISF Calibrated Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD Player// Sony PS3 60GB - soon to be replaced by the Panasonic DMP-BD50 Marantz SR6001 Surround Sound Receiver With HDMI// B&W604/602/LCR600 // Hsu Research VTF3 Subwoofer HD DVD Titles - 85 // BluRay Titles - 63 (and counting) [ + quote]
mspurloc (Member) 9 June 2008 10:04
Nope. If you have one price point for a player, your competition is taken away and you double the price, you're gouging. That's what Sony and its partners have done. It's got nothing to do with quality or how "hard" it is to do business. They could've kept the price lower, built customer loyalty and made it up in scale, but they didn't. They're charging more for players that don't cost that much more to make than the current DVD models, despite what they claim. There IS no excuse. *Originally posted by NexGen76:* *Originally posted by mspurloc:* Gee, where have I heard this before? Oh, right. Just from...EVERYONE! Sony blew it with their price gouging. I'm waiting for the next big thing and so are all the people I know who weren't foolish enough to buy into Blu Ray. Anytime there is new tech its not going to be cheap.Blu-Ray didn't blow anything DVD had a very high cost when it launched & DVD players was 500-600 dollars when they first launched.Wait til the price go down then buy.Price gouging i think not...they got to cover production cost which is going to be high because components for players are going to be high @ first & thats a cost they can't control early in production. [ + quote]
eatsushi (Senior Member) 9 June 2008 10:36
*Originally posted by mspurloc:* Nope. If you have one price point for a player, your competition is taken away and you double the price, you're gouging. I guess I have to restate my previous post about this alleged "gouging:" It's not gouging when you lower the price for the holiday season and then go back to its regular price once the holiday shopping season is done. We see it all the time. Let me explain to you what happened to the pricing of the Sony BDP-S300: June 2007 - BDP-S300 was released with an MSRP of $499 Dec 2007 - BDP-S300 price drop to $399 for the holiday season Early 2008 - BDP-S300 price goes back up to its usual $499 MSRP. It was just a coincidence that Toshiba announced the death of HD DVD around the time that the price went back up to it's usual level. June 2008 - BDP-S300 price now $388 at Walmart. With the Father's Day $100 store coupon, this will be down to $288 starting this weekend. Can someone please, for the love of god, show me where the gouging happened??? [ + quote]
juankerr (Member) 9 June 2008 10:50
*Originally posted by eatsushi:* Can someone please, for the love of god, show me where the gouging happened??? Never happened. Facts: 1. Standalone prices have dropped from $1000 or more at launch to $300 or less 2 years into the format. 2. Having no competition doesn't mean that prices will go up. Just look at what happened to DVD. It is the most dominant media format in history and had no competition for several years. Still, prices on players and discs have decreased. [ + quote]
mspurloc (Member) 9 June 2008 18:02
You're buying into the claim that Blu Ray players cost more to produce than HD DVD players did? *Originally posted by juankerr:* *Originally posted by eatsushi:* Can someone please, for the love of god, show me where the gouging happened??? Never happened. Facts: 1. Standalone prices have dropped from $1000 or more at launch to $300 or less 2 years into the format. 2. Having no competition doesn't mean that prices will go up. Just look at what happened to DVD. It is the most dominant media format in history and had no competition for several years. Still, prices on players and discs have decreased. [ + quote]
ematrix (Junior Member) 9 June 2008 18:58
It's pitiful that some think by calling others ignorant or stupit will actually make their arguments solid, what a joke! Regardless of that, it doesn't change the fact that optical discs aren't as reliable as claimed, even if users store and handle discs carefully, to avoid exposure to heat, dust, sun, fingerprints or scratches, anyone could get discs that will degrade on their own, months or years after you got them, due to flaws when manufactured, which is a issue well known even in the case of pre-recorded discs. So arguing who sold more by a date or what prices were doesn�t really matter at all? On the contrary, the point of sales figures, estadistics, surveys, etc. is to have a factual realistic view of past and present technology's development and consumption, yet it's easy to make claims, judge and criticize while disregarding these facts. It's a fact that most of U.S. households that already own a HDTV, are more than happy with DVD picture quality and HD upscaling and that for now, Blu-ray is simply not worth it; that regardless of what's happening in U.S., around the world the scenario for Blu-ray is even worse, since more than 97% of global population are content with DVD, and surely it's not helping when BD players are priced globally at US$600-1000 and BD movies at US$30-60, even in holiday season. DVD is the dominant home video format worldwide no thanks to overpriced DVD movies, since 9 out of 10 DVD users gobally chooses not to buy them, but rather to inexpensive DVD players, recorders and blank discs; Blu-ray is still a lot distant to match such favourable circunstances gobally. At least when DVD was released in 1997, prices for DVD movies were slightly higher than VHS movies, not only in U.S. but all around the world, which allowed consumers to view DVD as an affordable option, even when the players were still expensive, yet they were driven by greed when overpricing DVD movies in the last five years, and they choose to continue this pricing model with even more overpriced BD movies... again I'm talking about worldwide prices, not in the U.S. There's nothing wrong with expensive hardware, but what's the point of spending money in a player even if it's cheap, if the movies are still very expensive. They could've choose to enmend that by lowering worldwide prices for BD movies, even for DVD movies as it's a "lower resolution" product, allowing to built up customer loyalty towards BD, and made it up in mass global sales, but they choose not to do so, and indeed there are too many people, that are tired of being exploited with overpriced products, which aren't excent of eventual failure. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9 June 2008 19:47
nopcbs (Newbie) 9 June 2008 22:14
OK, Joseph Consumer, not Joe Consumer - slightly up-scale. Touche! - nopcbs *Quote:* *Originally posted by nopcbs:* On the Horizon is the Toshiba technology that will list at $200 and, no dount, promptly drop to under $150. The technology (whether just very good or excellent)will work with EVERY DVD. What would you buy as Joe User? Joe User would ignore the new Toshiba SRT players and get the $39 upconverter. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.d...5584897 [ + quote]
nopcbs (Newbie) 9 June 2008 22:25
Wow! Blu Ray/HD-DVD are simply not as big an improvement over up-converted DVD as the latter was over VHS. You need to go look at some VHS tapes on your "big" screen (over 26") set if you think that is true. And I don't mean from 20 feet away. It just is not the case and it's not just lines of resolution. The HD formats are a definite and significant improvement with the right software vs. up-converted DVD, but not overwhelming on normal sized screens (50" and smaller)like DVD was vs. VHS. *Quote:* Wow to be ignorant and pride yourself on it. BD-HD technology is just as much better then DVD's as VHS was to DVD, upconverting is just a joke making a high low res picture higher doesn't make it better it just converts it higher and can make it worst in some cases. Super Res will also be dead and not fly. Why would I spend a lot of monies for a better upconversion method (algorithms) this isn't true HD and definitely isn't in the same ball park as BD, it is just a better way to upconvert and you need special gear to achieve it. Again Toshiba is falling well below the mark as they did with HD-DVD's which has cost them big. I guess Toshiba is going for broke now. Here is a good article on Super Resolution: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/05/09/toshiba_cell_strategy/ Now you can buck change that is you prerogative but that doesn't change facts no matter what your bias is, like hating Sony so bad you won't buy a good product from them. I hate Sony too but their TV's are some of the best so I consider buying them and BD is in that same light. *Originally posted by ematrix:* First of all, any kind of storage media isn't infallible, yet chip memories and magnetic storage media withstands a higher resilience than optical discs, certanly users don't worry about typical disc defects such as scratches and fingerprints... even movie studios store films digital masters on HDDs, since currently it's the most reliable way to preserve them. Even the hard coating on BD discs, granted is more resistant than DVD discs, yet isn't infallible; also the inner layer on optical discs could oxidate if it wasn't sealed properly, regardless if you rarely reproduce the discs, and you have taken care of them to prevent exposure to dust, sunlight, heat, etc. The fact is that optical discs with more than 50GB storage capable it's still under development, and it won't be a reality anytime soon. But HDD with 1TB or greater with long term reliable storage capability are availible today, as well as Flash drives with 32GB storage capability. Granted that it's pricy to get them, but worth the expense. Here we go again that pride thing with a misguided lack of knowledge. Disk arrays provide very large storage capability but that doesn�t make it more reliable it just makes it larger. They still have to do a very slow and awkward tape backup(s) or have redundant arrays off site to protect this storage using RAID technology. They could use an array of optical drives and some do. Once you store to an optical you can put it away and be assured it will remain reliable recovery, that�s is totally not true with HDD�s or MAG tapes, unless of course you are a real moron that doesn�t know how to handle and take care of the media like putting it in the Sun or pinching the disc(s) or scratching the layer(s) buy laying it on the floor and sliding it around like a wake board. If stupidity is your argument give it up but again that doesn�t change the facts. Oh and buy the way I think it was Magnavox demo�d a 1TB BD drive in Australia a year ago so they aren�t very far away. The bottom line is that BD will be the new format as DVD�s were in their childhood Super-Res isn�t going to change that. DVD�s will be around for some time to come too. So arguing who sold more by a date or what prices were doesn�t really matter at all. You have a choice keep up with technology or being happy with the old and there is nothing wrong with still enjoying DVD�s. People when they see how much nicer HD is are going to side with HD that is happening now and as the prices drop there will be even more of an insurgence to that market. [ + quote]
iluvendo (AfterDawn Addict) 9 June 2008 22:38
No matter what we say here,which view point we take, it is the consuming public that decides which venue will succeed.As far as I can tell, the dust has not settled yet, and I have no clear vision of which way we are headed, only that SD DVD is here to stay for awhile. If it wasnt for bad luck, Id have no luck! "The flimsier the product,the higher the price" Ferengi 82nd rule of aquisition [ + quote]
nhl2005 (Newbie) 10 June 2008 10:25
Is someone still bitter that HDDVD died? Look at the article there are only 9% of homes with HDTV's. The whole HDTV thing is still in its infancy. Why would people buy bluray if they don't even have a HDTV. Also the selection of movies on blueray is not that extensive yet. It will take time as more people get HDTV's. Why would you want an upscaling DVD player for your new HDTV. Thats like buying a ferrari and taking the engine out and putting a 1969 volkswagon engine in as a replacement. [ + quote]
Mr-Movies (Member) 10 June 2008 21:40
*Originally posted by nhl2005:* Why would you want an upscaling DVD player for your new HDTV. Thats like buying a ferrari and taking the engine out and putting a 1969 volkswagon engine in as a replacement. Because ematrix & nopcbs says it's the best and they really know what they are talking about. In fact why even buy HDTV's maybe someone like Toshiba will make a upscale unit to convert my SDTV to HD. LOL I'm waiting for HD movies on flash drives too wouldn't that be the bomb, $100 per movie I'll sign up for that and they will last forever. HeHeHe.... By the way it was a Porsche 914 that had the Volkswagon engine in it not a Ferrari, but how stupid that was too. :) [ + quote]
FredBun (Senior Member) 11 June 2008 23:41
until br players come to $100 or less, no thanks [ + quote]
kokuryu (Newbie) 17 June 2008 20:56
HD DVD is tons better than BluRay any day. Cheap players, inexpensive discs, and many came as both HD and standard DVD discs in the same package. Upconverted video is nearly the same quality. I saw zero reason for BluRay to "win" anything. In my own seeing, BluRay LOST the format war - BluRay was only better at giving away BD discs. On the other hand, MILLIONS of HD discs were being purchased. Luckily some few new HD titles are still being made, and tons are still available for purchase, so I can build up a nice HD DVD selection. I hope that the people will opt for a revolution and show that BluRay is not wanted, and instead we want HD DVD. Write to all the movie studios asking for HD DVD versions of the movies you like! Tell them you are trying to buy it in HD DVD but can only find BluRay versions - and you DONT WANT BluRay, you want HD DVD. Then the revolution will happen for real! [ + quote]
nopcbs (Newbie) 17 June 2008 21:15
Nopcbs does not say that up-converted DVD is better than HD-DVD or Blu Ray, at their best. What I do say (and it is true) is the up-converted DVD is plenty good enough for the vast majority of people (surveys support this as do buying patterns), that a lot of old movie re-issues in HD format are barely, if at all, better than up-converted DVD (been there, done that) and, frankly, Blu Ray players and Blu Ray movies are over-priced for what you get...especially the players. And that $200 Wal-Mart Blu Ray player, well that's a $300 player that Wal-Mart will give you a $100 Wal-Mart gift card for if you buy it, as a bribe. Sell it for $200 out-right and then maybe we are starting to get real on pricing. (But a Magnavox??? How long will that last?) I took the same bribe from Sony on a PS3 and got it for $300 and I still feel un-clean for having done it. As for the Toshiba technology, we will see what that is about come fall. And the marketplace will decide, unlike the case with Blu Ray vs. HD DVD where studio bribery decided the issue to the sorrow of the buying public. - nopcbs *Quote:* *Originally posted by nhl2005:* Why would you want an upscaling DVD player for your new HDTV. Thats like buying a ferrari and taking the engine out and putting a 1969 volkswagon engine in as a replacement. Because ematrix & nopcbs says it's the best and they really know what they are talking about. In fact why even buy HDTV's maybe someone like Toshiba will make a upscale unit to convert my SDTV to HD. LOL I'm waiting for HD movies on flash drives too wouldn't that be the bomb, $100 per movie I'll sign up for that and they will last forever. HeHeHe.... By the way it was a Porsche 914 that had the Volkswagon engine in it not a Ferrari, but how stupid that was too. :) [ + quote]
Mez (Senior Member) 18 June 2008 8:27
nhl2005, correction, only 9% of the households that have HDTV will buy Blue Ray. If only 9% of the US households had HDTV there would be trouble. Regular broadcasting goes away early next year. [ + quote]
juankerr (Member) 18 June 2008 17:15
*Originally posted by kokuryu:* you DONT WANT BluRay, you want HD DVD. Then the revolution will happen for real! [ + quote]