I dropped my Zune while the HDD was spinning so its dead, but i'd buy a flash based Zune any day of the week.

I LOVED my Zune. There are so many little things that the Zune does right. I purchased a cheaper alternative and I regret it everyday. MS should price the Zune cheaper and really push the coolness that is the Zune card. WMP should support that and it should be a selling point.

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Compared to the iPhone and the iPod touch, the Zune sucks, and everyone knows it. I don't care how many testimonials I read from so-called Zune owners. The fact that the Zune owns aroud 3% of the market versus 70% market share for the iPod should be enough suggestive evidence to quiet the squawkers. But it isn't. So be it.

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I don't own either so I'm not qualified to debate this...
But you have to admit that it's pretty damned ironic to hear an APPLE guy arguing the whole... MS has only 3% of the market Vs 70% for the APPLE device so be quiet.
C'mon... it's funny, right???

BTW: I own a Sony MYLO so I pwn all of you!!! LOL

Originally posted by nintenut:

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I've been using my Zune exclusively since my iPod's headphone jack stopped working, I'd forgotten about the EQ... However, I haven't really had a problem with the software since the update in November... I mean, other than the auto-album art thing, which sucks. I used to have zAlternator for syncing with WMP, but it doesn't work anymore. =(

I really only use the Zune when I need to sync, I use MP3Tag to tag things and add album art and WMP to rip my CD's.

I don't really have a problem with people defending their devices of choice, if someone else is touting why another one is better, why not rebut? I took issue with the fact that he was doing so by putting down the other one with fictional issues. =P

But, yes, I agree, to each his own.

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It' not even a matter of people defending their devices and such. I mean sure we are all going to agree or disagree at certain times about certain things and whether you like Zunes and I like IPods (well in this case that is)would be a failing argument. IPods have been dominating the MP3 scene for a while, Microsoft is too stupid to advertise or should I say expand on their advertising efforts to get the Zune brand out more. With all the money Bill's company makes, you would think a few million could of been set aside to make a few commercials for the Zune. They are going the way of Sony: Sony might have some beautiful players although slightly expensive but when was the last time you ever saw a commercial for a Sony Mp3 player or to be correct, a Walkman?
Now with software: before I am labeled a fanboy (I am starting to sound like one) I will admit I do favor ITunes over te Zune software. I handed down my Zune to my kid sister and, although she loves it, we both hate the software, it is too glitchy for our tastes and sometimes just hangs. Half the time the software does not even detect the Zune until like say 10 to 20 minutes. What I do love of the software is how quickly music can be added to the music folder to then synch with the Zune. On the other hand, ITunes has all those features that I like but it such a memory hog and can be tedious at times but all around I prefer it over Zune software.
To tell you the truth, I would rather use a player/music manager of my own for either one of these players but that is just me.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Morreale, they all have about the same audio fidelity. Zunes have more relyable hardware (harddisk) and a better screen. If you want better fidelity get some real ear phones. Apple sells only junk. The last time I checked, even the $200 ones were not very good. I am happy with a pair of Philips I picked up for $20 about 6 months ago. The range is 5-22,000 hz. Human hearing is 20 -20,000.

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I recently bought some Sony in ear phones which I got for around 11.00 or so US. I was skeptical at first because of the price, claiming they were made for IPod and/or PSP but surprisingly they are really good. I decided to get an additional pair but Amazon, at that time, was sold out (I think they have them back in stock now). Well, while searching for these earphones online, I finally found them for 3.32 US. So I ordered three sets and even after shipping and tax, I was back to my original 11.00 odd dollars I had paid at Amazon but for only one pair. Might want to give these a try, here is the link http://www.lightinthebox.com/SONY-EX088-...009-_p8104.html

Originally posted by EnigmaCM:

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ITunes has all those features that I like but it such a memory hog and can be tedious at times but all around I prefer it over Zune software.

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I have a Mac and I dual boot Leopard and Windows 7 (used to boot XP Pro) and I use iTunes for music on both and iTunes is WAY faster and better too on Leopard then Windows 7, like it's retarded (to me anyways). It's better too for me because to use my remote to switch songs, in 7 I have to have the window open or it won't do anything and when I press the X in Leopard to close the window it minimises to the dock and in 7 it actually exits, which just pisses me off because I'm used to iTunes on Mac lol

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EnigmaCM, although Sony ear buds blow away apple something like Koss plugs that sell for single digit USDs blows them away. The Philips are better still.
Sony Frequency Response: 18Hz ~ 21kHz
Koss 8Hz-20kHz
Philips 5Hz-22
Hearing 20 -20,000 however you can feel below 5 Hz but it takes a teenager to sense even 20KHz so the high end difference is not very important.

The Zune software is as bad as it gets I don't think anyone has made a worse audio manager. It even makes itunes look good. itunes only rated 15 out of a possible 100 points in a recent review. The winner got 100 and runner up got in the 90s and even Windows Media Player blew away itunes. Zune might have gotten a minus rating.

I used a Zune for the first time a few weeks ago. It actually is a nice mp3 player. Easy to use with a nice interface and an over all good "feel" to it.

Right now I have a 20gb photo iPod, but 20gb isn't nearly enough for my 250gb library. I could go either way from my next mp3 player purchase. The deciding factor now is how much storage can I get for the least amount of dollar?

I believe the problem is the mkting, 'cause Zune is for me better by far than the ipod, just an example, here in Mexico is not sold in stores, we have to buy either on the border or using ebay, which increases the price a liitle bit...

regards ! ! !

Does anybody really believe all this tripe?

Credible reviews in respected publications about the Zune were dismal. User experience with the Zune and the software has been luke warm at best. Sales are so poor that Microsoft fudged the numbers to push over the 1 million barrier, only to recant later when challenged.

Most responders here however, paint a glowing picture of the Zune. Could it be that the product really is great, in spite of Microsoft's dismal approach to anything interface or user-experience related? After all, they did have Apple to copy off of...again. Or could it be that the 89,000 people working at Microsoft and the countless thousands of MCSEs and others that make a living off of fixing Microsoft's failings flood these and other boards with praise for Microsoft's many crappy products?

Hmmmmmmmm....

Originally posted by ericg8:

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Does anybody really believe all this tripe?

Credible reviews in respected publications about the Zune were dismal. User experience with the Zune and the software has been luke warm at best. Sales are so poor that Microsoft fudged the numbers to push over the 1 million barrier, only to recant later when challenged.

Most responders here however, paint a glowing picture of the Zune. Could it be that the product really is great, in spite of Microsoft's dismal approach to anything interface or user-experience related? After all, they did have Apple to copy off of...again. Or could it be that the 89,000 people working at Microsoft and the countless thousands of MCSEs and others that make a living off of fixing Microsoft's failings flood these and other boards with praise for Microsoft's many crappy products?

Hmmmmmmmm....

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I'll just go ahead and put this out there: You're a edited for content that violates forum rules idiot.

I'm not even going to humor you, or tear apart that pile of edited for content that violates forum rules you posted bit by bit, I'm just going to say this... Microsoft employees doing the sort of thing you described are going to post up false reviews on Amazon, or make blogs about how awesome their product is.
Comments under a frigging news article are not good advertisement in comparison, why waste their time?

And, hey, here's an idea, maybe some people actually like the product? I think it's definitely possible, some people like the PS3, why not the Zune?

Actually, I'm going to go against what I just said, I am going to tear apart your post.

Originally posted by ericg8:

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Credible reviews in respected publications about the Zune were dismal. User experience with the Zune and the software has been luke warm at best. Sales are so poor that Microsoft fudged the numbers to push over the 1 million barrier, only to recant later when challenged.

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My, you seem knowledgible, why not post links to some recent dismal "Credible reviews in respected publications" to back up your argument instead of just stating something and expecting people to take it as fact?

You can't just throw out a blanket "User experience is negative". Users are people, and people have different tastes. Some people, like myself, don't have a problem with the Zune itself. I've already stated my dislike of the software.

Show me "Fudged numbers". Show me.

Originally posted by ericg8:

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Could it be that the product really is great, in spite of Microsoft's dismal approach to anything interface or user-experience related?

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Apparently.

Originally posted by ericg8:

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After all, they did have Apple to copy off of...again.

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I'm not even acknowledging that as an argument against anything. What did they copy from Apple?

A typical review:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/

Ok, we had a bit of a rough start...rough edges to go right along with the well thought-out niceties. We came away underwhelmed and not at all surprised...expectations were for Microsoft to deliver a "Microsoft" player...not too shabby looking, but not very usable, and definitely bug-ridden. ...It's a Microsoft product (in the vernacular sense) through and through.

On May 28, 2007 Microsoft reported hitting the 1 million Zunes sold mark. Shortly thereafter they recanted. Apparently stuffing them into the distribution channel does not count as sold units. They reiterated the claim on July 20. Pundits still doubt that the figure represents units sold to customers.

As for copying Apple, just look at a Zune! Windows was a direct response to the first Macintosh. Sure, Apple did not invent the LAN, Ethernet, the mouse, the GUI, etc., their pioneering drove Microsoft to try and keep up. Had Microsoft done a decent implementation, then we would not be having this conversation. Now Vista is a direct and pathetic response to Mac OSX. Some constructs that Apple did invent such as widgets and the tool bar are copied as well. Other innovations by Apple are freely given to the PC community, such as iTunes and Bonjour. Microsoft is no innovator, and as a follower they pretty much suck at that too.

The old Zune looks like a piece of edited for content that violates forum rules... The new one looks nice though :)

***

But that's what it looked like! It was even brown too...

Originally posted by ericg8:

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A typical review:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/

Ok, we had a bit of a rough start...rough edges to go right along with the well thought-out niceties. We came away underwhelmed and not at all surprised...expectations were for Microsoft to deliver a "Microsoft" player...not too shabby looking, but not very usable, and definitely bug-ridden. ...It's a Microsoft product (in the vernacular sense) through and through.

On May 28, 2007 Microsoft reported hitting the 1 million Zunes sold mark. Shortly thereafter they recanted. Apparently stuffing them into the distribution channel does not count as sold units. They reiterated the claim on July 20. Pundits still doubt that the figure represents units sold to customers.

As for copying Apple, just look at a Zune! Windows was a direct response to the first Macintosh. Sure, Apple did not invent the LAN, Ethernet, the mouse, the GUI, etc., their pioneering drove Microsoft to try and keep up. Had Microsoft done a decent implementation, then we would not be having this conversation. Now Vista is a direct and pathetic response to Mac OSX. Some constructs that Apple did invent such as widgets and the tool bar are copied as well. Other innovations by Apple are freely given to the PC community, such as iTunes and Bonjour. Microsoft is no innovator, and as a follower they pretty much suck at that too.

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Okay, first off, that's a more than two-year-old review of the first Zune. We're already two hardware models and a whole bunch of updates away from that.

You got me with the numbers, but don't pretend Microsoft is the only company to ever do that. And, again, that's something more than a year old, almost two.

That last bit is still edited for content that violates forum rules. You said "As for copying Apple, just look at the Zune!" and went off on a rant about Operating Systems and software that has nothing to do with the Zune. That makes sense.

Again, I hate Vista, I'm not going to defend it, but it has no place in an argument about the Zune.

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That last bit is still bullsh*t. You said "As for copying Apple, just look at the Zune!" and went off on a rant about Operating Systems and software that has nothing to do with the Zune. That makes sense

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You asked me to defend my statement that Microsoft copied Apple again. That would suggest that Microsoft had copied Apple on previous occasions. Hence the relevancy of mentioning Vista, Windows, etc. (heck, even DOS was a thinly veiled copy of CP/M)

It is quite clear, even from a cursory inspection of the Zune that it was a direct copy in appearance and function of its iPod predecessor. Introduced in November of 2006, the Zune was amazingly similar to iPods that had been brought to market over 5 years previous, right down to the signature circular wheel user control. To their credit, most other manufacturers of mp3 players were able to offer products with unique form factors, controls, and functionality. Microsoft also chose to mimic the online music store offered by Apple. One feature that Microsoft came up with on its own was the programming glitch that caused all Zunes to cease funtioning completely on Jan 1, 2009, just in time for users' new year's resolutions work out programs at the gym! LOL

Glad to hear the new Zune doesn't suck as much. Forgive me and most consumers for not sticking around to notice. And, with the new iPod Touch starting at around $200, supporting vivid movie playback and thousands of applications, don't expect that to change soon.

One thing great about the new Zune is, it may become a collector's item. Microsoft is hemorrhaging cash, losing millions on the ill-fated product line. (see their own financial disclosures)

Perhaps they should stick to what they are good at. Like rebranding crappy products. Hey, maybe they should introduce a new line of MP3 players called ZUNE 7. Nobody would figure that one out! LOL

I'd have less reason to pick your posts apart if you weren't such an obvious edited for content that violates forum rules.

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You asked me to defend my statement that Microsoft copied Apple again. That would suggest that Microsoft had copied Apple on previous occasions. Hence the relevancy of mentioning Vista, Windows, etc. (heck, even DOS was a thinly veiled copy of CP/M)

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Oh, I'm sorry, in my head we were arguing about the Zune. I obviously wasn't paying attention. 9_9

(Also, learn to space your thoughts, makes it easier to read than a wall of text. I'll do it for you this time.)

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It is quite clear, even from a cursory inspection of the Zune that it was a direct copy in appearance and function of its iPod predecessor. Introduced in November of 2006, the Zune was amazingly similar to iPods that had been brought to market over 5 years previous, right down to the signature circular wheel user control. To their credit, most other manufacturers of mp3 players were able to offer products with unique form factors, controls, and functionality.

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Mm, I think it looks closer to an old Creative Zen than an iPod...
And what "Functionality" did other manufacturers bring to the table? Oh, wait, you mean like wireless connections to the music store from the device, or the ability to share music between players?

And, really, calling the touchpad a ripoff of the clickwheel? The first Zunes, which your argument seems to be against, didn't even have touch control, just a big button in the middle and four buttons around it. And don't say Microsoft ripped that off because Apple would be just as guilty.

The Zune rips off iPod functions? It's a f*cking portable media player, what functions did it rip off, displaying image files and playing music and videos?

I do admit that other portable media player manufacturers, Microsoft included, have used features first introduced by other companies. But, you know what? It's called competition, this sort of thing happens in every other form of electronics. Other things, too.

"Oh, your thing can do this? Well ours can do that as well as this!" "Then we'll add that feature to ours, too, and add some more features so people will buy ours!" ETC.

Your argument could be applied to anything. You could say Nintendo ripped off Atari when they came out with the NES, because it plays game cartridges and connects to a TV.

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Microsoft also chose to mimic the online music store offered by Apple.

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Okay, did you seriously just claim that Apple invented online music stores? Wow.

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One feature that Microsoft came up with on its own was the programming glitch that caused all Zunes to cease funtioning completely on Jan 1, 2009, just in time for users' new year's resolutions work out programs at the gym! LOL

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That only affected one model, and it was fixed in a day.

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Glad to hear the new Zune doesn't suck as much. Forgive me and most consumers for not sticking around to notice. And, with the new iPod Touch starting at around $200, supporting vivid movie playback and thousands of applications, don't expect that to change soon.

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Mm-hm, and up to 32GB of space. The iPod Touch is neat, but I just want a music player that can hold my collection. (See earlier in this thread).

nintenut, I read the Zune reviews I don't remember seeing any that were a dismissal. What I remember is is that it was tagged as an also ran. A good product undistinguishable from the competition. That is far from a dismissal in my book. However those reviews did predict the lack-luster sales. How can an also ran steal sales away from a market leader? The Zune was a classic example of too little too late. The ipods prices continue to drop smothering any chance the Zune and other also rans of making an easy buck. Only the very inexpensive Chipods and Sansas continue to erode Apple sales.

Apple hasn't taken much from M$ but most of its major inventions were taken from other places. M$ does not even try to pretent it invented what it steals. We do need to be thankful that Apple did take poorly used technology and made it commercial. The GUI interface and the ipod were just repackaged technology. Their skill was selecting what technology to cobble together and make it all work together. The other skill is giving ugly products 'face lifts'. They really know what looks good. The iphone used an emerging technology they didn't invent it.

I have never heard a complaint about Zune hardware. ipods get many hardware complaites these days. They are not making them like they used to.

Both Apple and M$ employes right good reviews for their companies products and bad reviews for leading competitors.

Nintenut ~ You have violated forum rules in multiple areas with your insults and language. This is not the first time you have been removed temporarily for these actions. Please watch your language & actions. You have the ability to make clear points and converse properly so please do so.

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Originally posted by gallagher:

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Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

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Wrong moron. I have thousands of songs on my 80 gig Zune and I don't download from Microsoft. Not a single song I have is DRM.

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Great. You're either ripping your own CDs, which everyone can do, or your downloading music illegally. Big deal. What an advantage.

No wonder the Zune continues to fail so miserably.

Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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Originally posted by gallagher:

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Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

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Wrong moron. I have thousands of songs on my 80 gig Zune and I don't download from Microsoft. Not a single song I have is DRM.

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Great. You're either ripping your own CDs, which everyone can do, or your downloading music illegally. Big deal. What an advantage.

No wonder the Zune continues to fail so miserably.

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Or he's buying off iTunes.

The software isn't the issue in this debate, both devices can use iTunes...

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Great. You're either ripping your own CDs, which everyone can do, or your downloading music illegally. Big deal. What an advantage.

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That is the only way to get better than garbage music.

Only an Apple Zombie could make a statement like that which is screwed up on sooo many levels. I wouldn't take the crap itunes is selling if they gave it away.

You must be under the opinion to buy from itunes you must have an ipod. itunes is like the executive wash doom. Only the "in persons" get to buy there.

Most dogs prefer rotten meat to fresh. That is kinda like the tastes of Apple Zombies. They prefer low quality music to HiFi music.

I was recently in the market for a media player and I was looking at the zune. The reason I didn't get it is because I expect to be able to use my Microsoft device how I want.
With Apple you expect to be severely limited in what you can do. No homebrew software, DRM galore... ect ect ect...
But with Microsoft you expect to be able to use the WiFi like an actuall WiFi device, not in it's severely restricted way that zune allows.
It's too much money for a severely restricted device.

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Originally posted by ThePastor:

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...With Apple you expect to be severely limited in what you can do. No homebrew software, DRM galore... ect ect ect...

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Huh?! Apple is very open to app development. That's why there are thousands of 3rd party applications for the iPod touch, and none for the Zune.

As for DRM, Apple now offers DRM-free music and anything you rip yourself from CD is also DRM-free.

I'm talking about perception...
At least in my case, I wouldn't own an Ipod unless it was free. Yeah, I'm severely biased against Apple.
But, when I went looking for a player I saw that at about the same pricepoint I could get a Microsoft Zune and it had WiFi I was excited, until I found out that the WiFi is severely limited.

As for the Ipod, sure, there's lots of software, but it all has to come from the Ipod store... I can't install my own software... and don't even get me started on the Itunes stuff. I uninstalled that months ago and I'm still removing left over files and TSR crap.

Not that Microsoft is better... I'll grant you that... but if I want to use my device in my own way I would look not at Apple, but at Microsoft, and it turns out that the Zune is as badly restricted as the Ipod... So I moved on.

I'm just suggesting that this may be one aspect of the issue. People who buy Microsoft are looking for a particular usability, basically not locked down like Apple, and the Zune does NOT deliver.

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you ought to take a critical look at your biases then. I am a support professional with a 4-year degree in computer science. Apple has very nice stuff. From the perspectives of performance, ease-of-use, value, security, and resale value, they are far and away better than any significant product in the market place.

Sure, they sell apps through their store. They are cheap, certified, and virus-free. And, they are all in one place, easy to find, and convenient. But, you don't have to use them. Not sure what your alternative in the marketplace would be. No other company offers anything close in a wifi-enabled MP3 capable of running external apps.

As for iTunes, it is a terrific piece of software. The Windows version requires more "stuff" to be installed, but that's Microsoft's fault. That is the case with all applications installed on a PC versus other better-written operating systems. Perhaps the issues that you experienced were already there, but only came to light when you installed iTunes? I would suggest a complete reload and try again.

As for "locked-down", I'm not sure what you mean. Sign up and become an iPod developer if you want. Apple will provide all the tools you need to load any of your own software on there you'd like.

Finally Pastor, please do not pose as some novice user. The mere fact that you know the acronym TSR belies your computer-industry background. At least that's my perception.

Novice... hehe, hmmmm... no, I wouldn't say novice, though I certainly do not have a 4 year computer science degree. :D
I've been around a long time. Back "in the day" everything was a TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) Now they are called SysTray apps. Or worse, Services.
I am still finding an Ipod "Service" in my list of services. Sure, I was able to turn it off, but I uninstalled that program months ago.
Certainly, Apple is not the only company that does this type of stuff but Itunes has that reputation, and I've so-far, found it to be true.

All of what you say may be true, I'm not arguing that. But the difference in philosophy between the Ibm/Microsoft world and the Apple world is night and day. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to suggest that.

As a PC user I usually look for hardware that is going to be open to my will. For example, I own a WM6.1 phone. I like WM6.1. I don't think it's the best out there, but I can change it in any way I wish, even changing system files and all sorts of groovy things. I can download any program designed to run in this OS no matter the developer or even write my own and I can install all or part of it in any way I wish.
I am most likely not able to have that amount of freedom with an Apple device. (perception)

So, when I went looking for a device I discounted the Ipod out of the gate. There is no way I would ever be happy with that. (perception), then I discovered a Microsoft device which was very similar. My expectation was to find a device which worked like Windows. That I could use it in my way and install whatever I wanted, configure anything I wished and above all use the WiFi as I desired. I did not find this. Instead I found a device which was basically limited, just like the Ipod. There was no real difference. The WiFi was severely limited and it was not running a version of Windows. It was a proprietary device running a propriety OS, everything I HATE about Apple.
So I didn't buy one.

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so you like tinkering with your gear to get it to work, then I suppose Microsoft products are right for you. For others that just want the most utility with the least amount of pain, Microsoft is a poor choice. As for a "proprietary device running a propriety OS", I'm not sure how the iPod is any more proprietary than the zune, or any other product of this nature. Frankly, I don't even think that criticism is applicable to their computers. Sure, you are limited on the hardware side to some extent (peripherals, boards, drives, memory, accessories, etc. all tend to work with the Mac), but in return you get a well-made product with a great resale value and freedom from most driver-related headaches. but, this is a free country so suit yourself. Competition is a good thing.