Originally posted by leglessoz:

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Did I read somewhere that 6 million people aren't ready for DTV in the USofA? That is what, some 3% of your population. That's just crazy to hold it up for such a tiny number. If people aren't ready here in OZ when the final switch comes it will just be too bad - no TV for them. There is no excuse hardware-wise. Set top boxes are cheap (AU$40 for SD, AU$90 for HD), digital tuner cards for PCs are cheap (AU$80), and even sets with builtin HD tuners are cheap now (just paid AU$299 for a small set). That your government is wasting money on a subsidy program for DTV boxes, rather than using the money for important things is just typical of its priorities. For those people who are unlucky enough to be in a TV reception blackhole it is unfortunate. Repeaters need to be installed. We had/have similar issues here.

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3 million people whose minds aren't being controlled/numbed/deadened? Surely you don't think that the US government would precipitate such a situation!

Originally posted by leglessoz:

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There is no excuse hardware-wise. Set top boxes are cheap (AU$40 for SD, AU$90 for HD), digital tuner cards for PCs are cheap (AU$80), and even sets with builtin HD tuners are cheap now (just paid AU$299 for a small set).

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not everyone is in a position to waste money on these things. when every penny is accounted for on important bills or health care and any "extra money" is used for other necessities, a DTV conversion is a useless waste of everything. having 4 channels is good enough for the person who can't even afford cable tv. the change would not benefit them. let's face it, not everyone necessarily WANTS this dtv conversion no matter what kind of programming benefits it could bring.

you people do realize why they want DTV transition asap right?

there not freeing up airwaves, because there just auctioning them off.

what there doing is controlling the airwaves, using DTV as an excuse. my HDTV hooked up using a coat hanger, during the super bowel said you are not authorized to view this content and was not lifted until after the super bowl. i have cable but when im working in the garage its nice to have.

its all about control

Originally posted by DXR88:

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you people do realize why they want DTV transition asap right?
its all about control

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that's probably more truth than you'll ever hear anyone say about this whole mess.

big brother will be doing more than just watching you. he will be F@$king you soon.

i say it's a big ol' scam to make you spend back the money you will receive from stimulus packages and tax refunds to revitalize the economy. !!shenanigans!! i say... get some brooms!!

Originally posted by maitland:

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What I don't understand is what business does the government have mandating a technology change in the first place? Why should it be up to our clueless congress if/when a new technology must necessarily supersede an older one?

Who really stands to profit from this?

Verizon? (by winning the UHF bid)

The FCC? (by collecting the revenue from the UHF auction)

Who else?

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Who stands to lose from this?

The people?

What is going to happen when the UHF band, which has, heretofore, been largely dead air, is suddenly jammed full of digital signals?

How will this effect, say, cancer rate?


Anyone have thoughts on this?


~Maitland

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It isn't being done to "free up" "much needed" space on the airwaves which will "therefore & thereafter" be of benefit to all mankind. The "studios" have found a way to stop you from recording your favorite shows and movies from TV broadcasts.

My father (who came from Germany and lived through the Nazi facism) said many times that we Americans fall asleep in history class, meaning that we don't "REMEMBER". We are therefore condemned to loose hard-fought freedoms won by those who came before us and that we are destined to make the same mistakes over and over again. I am older so let me tell you a story:

Long ago, in a galaxy whose courts and legislature were not yet totally ruled or "bought" by the current wave of facist-capitalist entertainment industry tycoons, the American Courts ruled that the people have a right to use VCR's to record TV for personal use ... You see, for years the entertainment industry had blocked video recording devices from reaching the American consumer. Thereafter, and much to the chagrin of those entertainment industry powers, "recording" VCR's rather than just the greedily planned "play-only"-"marketing trap" VCP's began to arrive from Japan for legal sale in the US.

Now here is where the wool has been pulled over the "people's" eyes. A copy protection data stream can be included in digital broadcasts (not possible with analog broadcasts) This means you won't be able to record TV or transfer your recordings to disk or tape. You will now have to buy the Seasonal DVD release packages from the studio's if you want to have your favorite shows for personal use. Of course, they will say, they would never do this ... and they will say that it is certainly not part of their plan ... until they do it ... TO YOU. And thereby reverse ANOTHER one of our long standing "fair use", rights given to us by the highest court in the land without ever having to appear in or explain themselves to the American Justice System.

Pretty good yah? Since having lots of money to throw around is not their problem, just contribute to enough election campaigns, call in your favors in the form of voting for the "Great Digital Transition" bill, and thereby effectively use the Legislative Branch to bypass the Judicial Branch. A "fair-use" right given to you by the Supreme Court of the United States is crushed. ... it's Tread On Who(?) all over again ...

I just had to write this because of all the sheep writing comments like "I'm ready ... when are they gonna do it?" "what's the big hold up anyway ...? and my favorite: "... if you can't keep up with progress, that's your problem"

Best regards,
Whisperer

Look who're pushing this. It isn't about "fairness", it isn't about "being prepared", it isn't about "a better standard of living" or "more economic use of our radio space". It's about propaganda and control. Those who have chosen not to be prepared are the more likely ones to be upset by America's destruction of wealth and globilization. The obama christ and his ilk want to make sure the 4th arm of government can still influence everybody, especially malcontents with nothing to lose. They need the failing media, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc, to be able to reach the disturbed masses with their propaganda, and keep them complacent as they enact their global socialist policies and devalue the US dollar. After all, you don't want those "hill billies in the south with their "states' rights" and illegal assault weapons" to "go crazy and prevent progress" when they realize we've surrendered our sovereignty to the UN and sold out everything the founding father's stood for.

Originally posted by engage16:

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Thank you DVDBack, at least you understood what I meant, unlike most of the 'posters' in the thread who thought I'm not prepared for the DTV transition. I've been prepared for around a year now and due to the cliff effect I've been screwed over just like most of rural america...

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No, I understood what you said....and it was crap. Satellite can be gotten pretty much anywhere! I am in rural America and am just fine thanks to satellite.

And to Tarsellis, I highly doubt the founding fathers would be happy at all with any part of our government...especially the Bush administration attacking a country, Iraq, for no good reason. There were no WMD's, Iraq wasn't linked to 9/11,and they posed no real threat to the USA...these tree points have all been proven.

It is sad how people seem to care so much more about this DTV crap than they do about getting our soldiers out of harms way, in a place they never should have been in the first place! Or how our nation is basically nothing but a bunch of lard butts only concerned with fast food and TV. I have said it many times before...put down the bag of chips and get outside, get a hobby, loose some weight and realize the world will keep turning without your boob tube!!!

Wow, some paranoid people here... I guess with the way things have been going lately I suppose I don't blame you, but...

A) An analog signal takes MUCH MORE of the available bandwidth. Bandwidth which is very badly needed for things like emergency radios for cops and firemen and such. THAT is what the new bandwidth is going to be used for... (among others). Your insistance that we stick with outdated analog signals removes some of MY choices. You are hogging MY bandwidth. I live here too and have as much a right to those airwaves as you do.

B) Pretty much any and all TV shows which air today are available at full digital quality (sometimes even HD) with Zero copy protection or DRM or limitations of any kind. You can download them for free... download them from a pay site or even buy the DVD. It's all still available.

C) The people who have not prepared yet, will never prepare. The people who cannot receive a digital signal but can receive an analog signal, well, I don't know what to say other than maybe you should look into a TV repeater for your town. That's what we had in our small rural town. A small tax was paid and the town maintained the repeater.

D) ever hear of dish network?

I don't understand the reason for all the bitchin and moaning from those who are ready. Why do you even care if the transition is delayed. The stations are already broadcasting in digital. You won't gain a thing or even notice the difference when they drop analog! Does it stroke your ego to know that you can watch TV and somebody else can't?

Many "local" channels that can be seen clearly without any antenna at all, will require an out dooe antenna to get the digital signal. The ABC affiliate in B.ham is one such station.

What I'd like to know is if the cable companies or sat providers will carry the multiple broadcast made by local stations. Our PBS station always has 4 different shows on, but cable and Dish only show one.

Originally posted by ThePastor:

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Wow, some paranoid people here... I guess with the way things have been going lately I suppose I don't blame you, but...

A) An analog signal takes MUCH MORE of the available bandwidth. Bandwidth which is very badly needed for things like emergency radios for cops and firemen and such. THAT is what the new bandwidth is going to be used for... (among others). Your insistance that we stick with outdated analog signals removes some of MY choices. You are hogging MY bandwidth. I live here too and have as much a right to those airwaves as you do.

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it's easy to excite people with fear and paranoia, but when you consider the negative possibilities that DTV brings, it makes sense for them to feel that way. you assume that the new bandwidth is going to be used for emergency frequencies. do you know who is auctioning the bandwidth? do you know who is buying up the 'free' bandwidth? i dont know so i'm asking. you say that the analoggers are trying to stick with outdated signals and remove some of your choices, BUT the broadcasters DONT HAVE TO transmit those multicasted channels if they dont want to. and, there's no guarantee that your cable provider will broadcast these local shows that you could be missing out on but would never have known about it anyway since you're watching the 'main' channel.

Originally posted by ThePastor:

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B) Pretty much any and all TV shows which air today are available at full digital quality (sometimes even HD) with Zero copy protection or DRM or limitations of any kind. You can download them for free... download them from a pay site or even buy the DVD. It's all still available.

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do you know for a fact that there is zero copy protection? i read someone's post that showed that he wasnt able to watch the superbowl on his digital tv. that sounds like copy protection, drm and limitations all in one. i watched the super bowl nice and pleasantly on my SD OTA tv. but that was one of the main reasons (i believe) that dtv is here for. so the gov't can push you around and broadcasters can make more money off you by claiming they offer all these great services when in fact you'll end up paying more for them.

i wonder why people are so upset about the delay. the eyes and brain can only process 24frames per second. anything showing 30+ fps is wasted. superior quality is fine and all when you're a CSI, but most average people cant tell the difference between SD and HD. it's a big hoopla over something that isnt terribly important in the long run. well for some, it's the most important event of their lives. for others, it will be just another day.

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I Darn well know our founding fathers would be irked beyond belief over our current state of government. Run mostly by a few monetary powers, federal rights superseding state's rights, an unconstitutional "federal reserve" controlling the bulk of the world money supply (USD is the world currency atm, as the reserve currency, even used on the street in many countries), and most importantly, and mostly because of, the retreat of Judeo-Christian values and acceptance of corruption and evil in the guise "tolerance".

However, my point was not the past's perception of the destruction of the union, but the reason for some powers to want to keep broadcasting the analog signal. There are a few, but not too many, benefits to the old analog signal in the old frequency band. The truth is, the major networks, who are mostly the propaganda wing of the government anymore, are about the only ones who actually use this band for TV. The problem is that some people still have their guns and ammo, see how corrupt we've become, and are more likely to become discontent and fight back with force. The danger isn't those who initiate the fight, but the rest who may join in the fight when they too are uncomfortable enough. It's much like Karl Marx said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". But in America it's closer to comfort and TV that keeps us peaceful and complacent. I personally think the obamassiah needs to keep us calm for a little while more as he shifts our sovereignty out of the hands of the US government until it's too late to stop or overcome. I posit that the analog TV signal is one more tool to keep any sparks from igniting the tinder box prematurely, and some of those who we are calling unprepared (or in my case, just don't care enough to get an over the air signal) are some of the ones who are more likely to become disturbed as our wealth and comfort levels fall.

As for the Iraq war, there's another nice little powder keg. However, I think deposing Sadam and freeing the Iraqi's was the right thing to do. Being America, we have certain responsibilities to use our power. I also believe though, that the war was prosecuted irresponsibly and unthoughtfully, at the least. These people really aren't ready for democracy, and we should have prosecuted Iran for their interference. We also should have been ready for three different factions in Iraq that couldn't get along, and our government are frikken idiots for not going through how differently the arabs think from the west, and how their culture is not compatible with ours. If they want to join us, fine, that's great, but we can't force it on them, as they believe their way is as superior as I believe ours is. I just happen to have facts on my side that show only the grecko-roman ideas promote the freedom of women, mutually beneficial trade, acceptance of other peoples, and invention and development of technologies and civilizations.


Boy, quite a tangent off of the "how stupid to delay the digital conversion" this all started as!

Since the days of Guglielmo Marconi, almost, we have needed to control the air wave transmitting, if we didn't there would be a real mess and the system wouldn't work, WE NEED REGULATION!

The FCC, for the US, regulates transmitting frequencies and the power you can transmit at, again this is a good thing.

After 15+ years of planning and changing the switch over date we need to make the change. This is getting to be ridicules to say the least. Also there is no guaranty that everyone has TV so if after all this time you're not ready well that is just too bad!

It is a plus for us to free up more frequencies and provide more broadcast content in a given bandwidth, it's a win-win, plus you get a much sharper picture provided you are able to receive the DTV signal.

i'm going to start a scaremongoring campaign. who's with me?? "Big Brother will be putting viruses in your DTV signal to control your television". you will be forced to purposely watch some god-awful show that you hate. or you will see nothing but the "rick roll'd" video on all channels for april fool's day. with the dtv you have a choice:... actually with the gov't or broadcasters in charge, you have no choice in this one. so please bend over and...

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Originally posted by engage16:

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Thank you DVDBack, at least you understood what I meant, unlike most of the 'posters' in the thread who thought I'm not prepared for the DTV transition. I've been prepared for around a year now and due to the cliff effect I've been screwed over just like most of rural america...

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You most likely just need the proper antenna. The right antenna can get signals from quite far. The "cliff effect" describes the fact that a signal works or not. There is not some mystical "cliff" that the signals won't pass. This is a term that is loved by politicians since it is so graphic, but it is mostly misused.

2nd. After the switch, you will get stronger signals. They are limited by power at the moment, but after the switch they will be able to broadcast with higher powers on more effective channels.

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Originally posted by leglessoz:

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There is no excuse hardware-wise. Set top boxes are cheap (AU$40 for SD, AU$90 for HD), digital tuner cards for PCs are cheap (AU$80), and even sets with builtin HD tuners are cheap now (just paid AU$299 for a small set).

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not everyone is in a position to waste money on these things. when every penny is accounted for on important bills or health care and any "extra money" is used for other necessities, a DTV conversion is a useless waste of everything. having 4 channels is good enough for the person who can't even afford cable tv. the change would not benefit them. let's face it, not everyone necessarily WANTS this dtv conversion no matter what kind of programming benefits it could bring.

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zero channels are good enough for anyone. TV is a luxury, not a right and certainly not a necessity. I know a few people that never watch TV and they are the most creative and productive people I know.

I think afford ability is a big factor for the lower economic end maybe they just need to make it soo cheap to get a standard DTVB like under $100 soo everyone can get their normal TV back. The coupons worked for a little while but they need to think of something new.

Yes, one of the purposes of changing to digital is to open up bandwidth for emergency services.

My TV receives both digital and analog. I am capable of using cable for cable and can tune all the OTA signals as well... all at the same time.

I'm capable of finding virtually any TV show aired from virtually anywhere in the world within the last several years.
Most popular shows are uploaded almost imediately after it airs on the east coast giving you the ability, sometimes, to see a show on the west coast even before it airs.

Live sports is a problem... but a very small part of the whole issue.

Why does it matter? Easy. Most of us are sick and tired of waiting on a few lazy laggers. If we continue to wait we will be waiting forever.

Poo or get off the pot...

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again with the freeing up there not freeing up anything, there turning around and selling it for a few billion. thats not freeing up the airwaves.

although they are doing one thing right, at least it will be reused.

if we really pray hard enough maybe they'll but a few billion into the US treasury, so we get out of the whole where in.

Im sure they'll find some politically good reason why we should waist it on some Money sucking countries. Yes China i mean you.

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Just a couple of things.....

Originally posted by DXR88:

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again with the freeing up there not freeing up anything, there turning around and selling it for a few billion. thats not freeing up the airwaves.

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While they may indeed be selling it, they have to FIRST free it up....so your first comment is pretty dumb.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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although they are doing one thing right, at least it will be reused.

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Here you made even less sense seeing what you said in the first place.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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if we really pray hard enough maybe they'll but a few billion into the US treasury, so we get out of the whole where in.

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Maybe "but" a few billion in....in what? you mean put a small dent in the TRILLIONS we owe..............why would they do that?

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Im sure they'll find some politically good reason why we should waist it on some Money sucking countries. Yes China i mean you.

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Did you get a rebate check this last year? Did you know that money was borrowed from China? If I recall correctly I think it was around the amount of $500 Billion......

Think things out...for yourself...instead of coming to a message board and spewing out the crap you heard on Fox news!

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While they may indeed be selling it, they have to FIRST free it up

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Really No shit, wow i didn't know that its a good thing your around.

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(although they are doing one thing right, at least it will be reused).Here you made even less sense seeing what you said in the first place.

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if you had the slightest idea of all the resources this country has thrown away, i doubt you would mock that.

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Maybe "but" a few billion in....in what? you mean put a small dent in the TRILLIONS we owe..............why would they do that?

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um...yeah its called saving and its a start, who the hell do you think is going to pay for the trillions we owe. the men that put us in that position. me you and every body else better get ready for the tax increase of the U.S.A.

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Did you get a rebate check this last year? Did you know that money was borrowed from China? If I recall correctly I think it was around the amount of $500 Billion......

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No kidding Cap'n obvious, you don't say. hence there reason i said china. we ow them so much right now if we sold are country to them it wouldn't be enough

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Think things out...for yourself...instead of coming to a message board and spewing out the crap you heard on Fox news!

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Who in there right mind watches Fox news. only news i'll every watch Is BBC

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DXR88 you make little to no sense...and your attempts at jokes, lame ones at that, are pitiful. And there is a reason for it...it is that your use of the English language is so damn poor! I mean really, you used words like: whole instead of hole, there instead of their, things like that.

Also to your little China thing, you first called them money sucking, and then admit to owing them money, a lot of money. When you owe someone money that isn't money sucking. It's when you borrow money without the intention of paying it back, that you are money sucking. And like you said, we owe them so much and can't really pay it back, that kind of makes us the money sucking county in that conversation...

And getting your news from the BBC.....WTF!!! Are you kidding me? You get your news about the USA from another country? That's kind of like asking the silly rabbit how lucky charms tastes!!!

Chieffy, who gives a crap what you think. i have not the time nor the energy to argue with you anymore.

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That is usually what people say when they've been beaten....not only that, but I find it so damn funny how you sang a different turn on this thread.....http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/746471

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Agreed, there is no rush here as all the local channels are already transmitting Digital alongside Analog.

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yep different tune, just stating the facts of why im in no hurry to get rid of analog. "to free up the airway's" for all i care they can be as constipated as hell.

the DTV transition is useless,for us the consumer. it has its benefits better picture,better sound, but at the draw back of reduced range not to mention the anti-copying anti-viewing DRM they will use during events. Fox already used anti-copying DRM during the Superbowl.

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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the DTV transition is useless,for us the consumer. it has its benefits better picture,better sound, but at the draw back of reduced range not to mention the anti-copying anti-viewing DRM they will use during events. Fox already used anti-copying DRM during the Superbowl.

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i think that was the point i wanted to make to people about the DTV transition. and people swear up and down that 'you're just a paranoid nutjob, and it's not a conspiracy'. it's always been about the govt having total control of what you see. they make a big hoopla over "better picture and sound (and possibly more channels)" but what everyone is not seeing is that it is not guaranteed that you'll get 'more' out of it. can't even watch the frikkin super bowl!! wtf is up with that?

HD/SD means nothing to me, digital/analog means nothing either. as long as my tv works and i can see what is happening on it, i'm good to go. although i do want a new HD tv so i can hook up my pc, but it's nothing i can't already do with my current setup. so what is all the hype about? seriously??

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Originally posted by SuperXL:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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the DTV transition is useless,for us the consumer. it has its benefits better picture,better sound, but at the draw back of reduced range not to mention the anti-copying anti-viewing DRM they will use during events. Fox already used anti-copying DRM during the Superbowl.

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i think that was the point i wanted to make to people about the DTV transition. and people swear up and down that 'you're just a paranoid nutjob, and it's not a conspiracy'. it's always been about the govt having total control of what you see. they make a big hoopla over "better picture and sound (and possibly more channels)" but what everyone is not seeing is that it is not guaranteed that you'll get 'more' out of it. can't even watch the frikkin super bowl!! wtf is up with that?

HD/SD means nothing to me, digital/analog means nothing either. as long as my tv works and i can see what is happening on it, i'm good to go. although i do want a new HD tv so i can hook up my pc, but it's nothing i can't already do with my current setup. so what is all the hype about? seriously??

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yeah, its a mixed bag o'nuts really. Some people just don't care, all they want is TV. the only reason i have and HDTV is for my entertainment center.

no your not nuts ive seen it happing, Anti-copying seems like the route they'll go. i don't think there dumb enough to shut off the signals yet, although highly possible they can.

you could have a repeater tower in an Area Code Setup, lets say johnny lives in the country With area code 456, and johns buds all like the channel 13 in an attempt to piss johnny & friends off they tell the
repeater to broadcast all except Channel 13.1.

Its doable, i just don't think they would.

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