Originally posted by stuntman_:

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I didn't say anything like they are the same thing, I said since it doesn't concern you and you have nothing to do with it why the hell do you care? And there aren't a bunch of people who sex with animals organizing and protesting but gay people are, there are a huge group of them who want the same rights and happiness as straight people so why do you want to deny them of that do you feel that you are better than them simply because you are straight?

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Are you being a bigot? Are you telling me that gays deserve marriage but incestuous polygamists do not? What if it makes them happy to be life partners with their chihuahua? Only if they get out and march will you give them equality?

You advocate it, but back down and refuse to stand by it. If you truly believe in man on man love, the there should be nothing wrong with man on daughter love, or man on son love, or man on dog on son love.

Don't feel bad. I am sure many people feel the same as you.

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Originally posted by stuntman_:

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I didn't say anything like they are the same thing, I said since it doesn't concern you and you have nothing to do with it why the hell do you care? And there aren't a bunch of people who sex with animals organizing and protesting but gay people are, there are a huge group of them who want the same rights and happiness as straight people so why do you want to deny them of that do you feel that you are better than them simply because you are straight?

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Are you being a bigot? Are you telling me that gays deserve marriage but incestuous polygamists do not? What if it makes them happy to be life partners with their chihuahua? Only if they get out and march will you give them equality?

You advocate it, but back down and refuse to stand by it. If you truly believe in man on man love, the there should be nothing wrong with man on daughter love, or man on son love, or man on dog on son love.

Don't feel bad. I am sure many people feel the same as you.

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the things you are coming up with are ridiculous the funny thing is you are going to have to deal with gay marriage sooner or later, I don't see it becoming illegal any time soon, there are becoming way less intolerant people like you in the world and more people like me who are willing to accept people how they are and not mold them into what you want them to be. So go pray to your fake fairy tale God that I am wrong, but not everyone is the same as you so get used to it.

Ever hear of nambla?

But, how does this debate always end up at "gay marrige"?

I don't believe Microsoft, as a company is any more or less bigoted than any other US company. On the other hand, that particular department, and specifically its manager is out of control and deserves to be fired. There is no excuse for any kind of insulting behaviour to occur of any kind, homosexual or otherwise.

Originally posted by gallagher:

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Originally posted by inagasake:

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And with homosexuality, you see it in the animal kingdom as well so it's hard to argue that it's unnatural.

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No one is arguing it is not a natural feeling. I am sure that gay guy is feeling something in his pants when he stares at Fabio.

On the other hand, I am sure Jeffrey Dahmer was feeling the same thing as he molested those young boys, murdered them, re-molested their dead bodies, and ate their flesh at the same time. So if we are going to argue that something is okay just because you feel the natural urge, we will have anarchy.

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Well other animals seem to have functioning societies despite having homosexual behaviour in their ranks. Homosexuality won't lead to anarchy for human societies. Humans in my opinion, should mind their own business more and stop interfering so much in other people's affairs. Unfortunately, if you want to live in civilization, you have to be subject to mob rule. And the mob isn't always very rational and likes to change the rules as they go along.

Gallagher

I try not to get involved with petty internet arguments but you actually seem to really believe your non argument so im going explain in very simple terms why you wrong. Social differences cant be lumped all together.

pediphiles: Smiling or not, a child cant consent to sex, this is why pedophilia is wrong, as both parties are not consenting adults.

bestiality: We can not comumicate with animals, for all we know farmer joe's favourate sheep, enjoys it just as much as farmer joe. But as we cant talk there is no way the sheep can consent.

THESE ARE STRAIGHT WRONG, IN ALL SITUATIONS AS ONE PARTY CANT CONSENT.

polygamy: Traditional thinking that comes from a time when woman had no rights, the woman involved have had a life time of religious veiws cast on them, are they consenting? This subject for another day. There are other free thinking people that share a relationship with multiple people, for obvious reasons i would love a second wife if there was no jealousy, wouldnt you?

GREY AREA.

Incest: Often gets mixed up with pedophilia, whats wrong with incest if it involves two concenting adults? In what way does this harm anyone? Where do you think we all came from? Some mutation is good for the gene pool.

Homosexuality: I think you get my points by now, two concenting adults no harm done to anyone. Simple as that.


I would like to ask you know Gallagher are you so normal and perfect that you feel its your right to judge others? No? Oh right your just an arrogant hate monger.

Not that I would defend Gallager... but there's a few problems here.

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pedophiles: Smiling or not, a child cant consent to sex, this is why pedophilia is wrong, as both parties are not consenting adults.

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Pedophilia, sex with the underage? Who defines "underage". At what age does one get labeled a pedophile? An arbitrary number to define such things is seldom correct. There are many people under the age of consent who are perfectly capable of making that decision while there are plenty of people over the age of consent who will be incapable of being rational while making that decision forever. The age of consent is not even universal across the US, let alone, the world.
The age of consent is created to satisfy a societal need. It has no basis in reality or the level of maturity of the person. Yet, it's an important concept that helps our society to be civilized.

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bestiality: We can not communicate with animals, for all we know farmer Joe's favorite sheep, enjoys it just as much as farmer Joe. But as we cant talk there is no way the sheep can consent.

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Are you comparing animals to humans? As if animals had the right to consent? Does a horse consent to pulling the cart or the dog consent to getting his testicles removed?
No, again this rule is in place to keep our society civilized. There is no actual, real problem with bestiality, other than the social stigma. It is seen as base and carnal and not acceptable but really, what's the real human harm? An animal is property, not human and as such has only the right to exist without being mistreated. It is society that defines bestiality as mistreatment, not the animal.

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polygamy: Traditional thinking that comes from a time when woman had no rights, the woman involved have had a life time of religious views cast on them, are they consenting? This subject for another day. There are other free thinking people that share a relationship with multiple people, for obvious reasons I would love a second wife if there was no jealousy, wouldn't you?

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Polygamy is, in many cases, a choice made by both parties. I'm no Mormon so please accept my apologies but as I understand it the Mormon who believes in polygamy believes that this is a VERY IMPORTANT religious aspect of their lives and when they are denied this then they are being denied a very important religious right. Both parties consent. Usually, both parties are adults.
But again, society has decided that polygamy is not good for it. It should be shunned. There is no real human problem with having many wives. Many societies have existed for thousands of years while practicing polygamy.

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Incest: Often gets mixed up with pedophilia, whets wrong with incest if it involves two consenting adults? In what way does this harm anyone? Where do you think we all came from? Some mutation is good for the gene pool.

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Incest has very dire consequences, particularly if it carries on over several generations. It has ACTUAL real consequences to society and the physical human being. Incest is shunned for societal reasons but it is also shunned for very real physical reasons. Any society which practiced incest as a normal behavior would do irreparable harm to the human condition and that society would die.

Originally posted by Bushed:

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pediphiles: Smiling or not, a child cant consent to sex, this is why pedophilia is wrong, as both parties are not consenting adults.

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Legal age of consent in the US ranges from 14 to 18, even younger if they are married in some states with parental consent. So in your eyes, it is okay for a 14 year old boy to have sex with his 80 year old grandfather. Both consent. In fact, they should be able to get married.

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bestiality: We can not comumicate with animals, for all we know farmer joe's favourate sheep, enjoys it just as much as farmer joe. But as we cant talk there is no way the sheep can consent.

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Okay, what if the bonobo chimp molests the guy and the guy just turns around and allows it? Then it is okay in your eyes?

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polygamy: Traditional thinking that comes from a time when woman had no rights, the woman involved have had a life time of religious veiws cast on them, are they consenting?

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Funny, last time I checked polygamy is not a guy taking more than one wife, but rather a person taking more than one spouse. The practice of a guy with more than one wife is known as polygyny. Women can and actually do take more more than one husband in some societies--a practice known as polyandry. So don't be sexist and stereotype men when it comes to polygamy. The practice goes both ways.

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Incest: Often gets mixed up with pedophilia, whats wrong with incest if it involves two concenting adults? In what way does this harm anyone? Where do you think we all came from? Some mutation is good for the gene pool.

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Okay, so as we said as long as the girl is legal age of consent, perhaps 14, her father can have sex with her. Or I suppose since we have so many female teachers having sex with their middle school male students nowadays, it can be a 40 year old mother having sex with her 15 year old son. maybe even a family orgy.

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Homosexuality: I think you get my points by now, two concenting adults no harm done to anyone. Simple as that.

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Of course I get your point, but we live under a system of laws. Government is the legitimate use of force to control human behavior. It is all natural for a man to what to kill or harm another man at points. Do we allow it? No. Every law discriminates against someone. If we allowed every natural feeling to prevail, we would live in a state of anarchy.

This argument that it is two consenting adults could be used in countless arguments. We would have to legalize dueling and allow people to kill other people if they wanted to fight. We would have to allow nudity in all cases. We would have to allow people complete freedom of speech even if it was obscene, or threatened others. There is no end to where this would go.

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I would like to ask you know Gallagher are you so normal and perfect that you feel its your right to judge others? No? Oh right your just an arrogant hate monger.

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Since you attempt to cite the the Bible, let me educate you on the very verse you use. It states that we are not to judge unless we are to be judged ourselves. In other words, we cannot be hypocrites and place ourselves above the word. It then reads: "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine." If you see a mistake, take action and correct it.

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Originally posted by Bushed:

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pediphiles: Smiling or not, a child cant consent to sex, this is why pedophilia is wrong, as both parties are not consenting adults.

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Legal age of consent in the US ranges from 14 to 18, even younger if they are married in some states with parental consent. So in your eyes, it is okay for a 14 year old boy to have sex with his 80 year old grandfather. Both consent. In fact, they should be able to get married.

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bestiality: We can not comumicate with animals, for all we know farmer joe's favourate sheep, enjoys it just as much as farmer joe. But as we cant talk there is no way the sheep can consent.

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Okay, what if the bonobo chimp molests the guy and the guy just turns around and allows it? Then it is okay in your eyes?

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polygamy: Traditional thinking that comes from a time when woman had no rights, the woman involved have had a life time of religious veiws cast on them, are they consenting?

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Funny, last time I checked polygamy is not a guy taking more than one wife, but rather a person taking more than one spouse. The practice of a guy with more than one wife is known as polygyny. Women can and actually do take more more than one husband in some societies--a practice known as polyandry. So don't be sexist and stereotype men when it comes to polygamy. The practice goes both ways.

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Incest: Often gets mixed up with pedophilia, whats wrong with incest if it involves two concenting adults? In what way does this harm anyone? Where do you think we all came from? Some mutation is good for the gene pool.

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Okay, so as we said as long as the girl is legal age of consent, perhaps 14, her father can have sex with her. Or I suppose since we have so many female teachers having sex with their middle school male students nowadays, it can be a 40 year old mother having sex with her 15 year old son. maybe even a family orgy.

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Homosexuality: I think you get my points by now, two concenting adults no harm done to anyone. Simple as that.

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Of course I get your point, but we live under a system of laws. Government is the legitimate use of force to control human behavior. It is all natural for a man to what to kill or harm another man at points. Do we allow it? No. Every law discriminates against someone. If we allowed every natural feeling to prevail, we would live in a state of anarchy.

This argument that it is two consenting adults could be used in countless arguments. We would have to legalize dueling and allow people to kill other people if they wanted to fight. We would have to allow nudity in all cases. We would have to allow people complete freedom of speech even if it was obscene, or threatened others. There is no end to where this would go.

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I would like to ask you know Gallagher are you so normal and perfect that you feel its your right to judge others? No? Oh right your just an arrogant hate monger.

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Since you attempt to cite the the Bible, let me educate you on the very verse you use. It states that we are not to judge unless we are to be judged ourselves. In other words, we cannot be hypocrites and place ourselves above the word. It then reads: "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine." If you see a mistake, take action and correct it.

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I pee'd on a bible then I smacked jesus in the face with it right after I curb stomped him.

You are a typical religious person you base your life off a stupid book full of fairy tales then try to force your way onto others instead of just letting people live how they want to live and be how they want. None of these things have anything to do with homosexuality nor do they concern you (unless you have sex with your sister). You need to learn to accept gay people, I know the thought of 2 dudes having sex haunts your dreams because that's against what the good book of fairy tales says but keep praying buddy I am sure your prayers will be answered and the faggots will burn in hell just like you want them too.....oh wait no they wont because god doesn't exist and talking to yourself with your hands held firmly together doesn't do anything, just like how your stupid opinions and comparisons that have nothing to do with homosexuality don't change anything. Just give up and stop the hate, spread peace let people do they want and make everyone happy, there is no point hating someone for how they are they are not going to change their ways or who they are just because you don't like them or what they are doing, so why the arrogance and hate if you aren't going to change anything?

you just need to smoke some pot and watch some gallagher laugh your ass off chill out, and just love everyone and everything because we live in a beautiful world and it should be a tolerant one where we all get along, instead of an argumentative one where everyone fights and nothing gets solved

Is that you Lennon? I thought you were dead.

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Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

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Here, I have some great music for you . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2euLrBcAc0o

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Is that you Lennon? I thought you were dead.

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Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

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Here, I have some great music for you . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2euLrBcAc0o

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Lol I bet this is a whole one big joke you are probably gay and don't believe in Jesus and fairy tales like most people too. God is just as real as Santa read a science book, the world wasn't created in 7 days that's impossible. How am I the communist, dont you want everyone to be the same straight jesus loving christian that you are? No diversity no one different from you and your "ideal" way of life?

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How am I the communist, dont you want everyone to be the same straight jesus loving christian that you are?

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Hmmm . . who else shares in your thoughts? Let's see . . .

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Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

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My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism.

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How am I the communist, dont you want everyone to be the same straight jesus loving christian that you are?

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Hmmm . . who else shares in your thoughts? Let's see . . .

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Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

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My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism.

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*inappropriate racist & gender-phobic (and immature) comments removed*

I am curious if Durrant was one of those flamboyantly gay types. I don't care much is someone is gay or not... I will argue that people are not born high-pitched wrist-flapping fools. If this guy was walking around the office pissing people off with stupid gay mannerisms, then maybe he did deserve to be harassed.

Anyone who's made ridiculous & irrelevant comments above, knock it off.
stuntman_ - the same goes for you, plus the racist & gender-phobic terms you're using are way past inappropriate. Not sure you're fit to be allowed near the internet again.


How about this News item gets back to the subject in hand, and that means no more talk of sex with relatives/minors/animals/inanimate objects, and it certainly doesn't mean any racist terms are allowed either. Plus let's leave Religion at the door too.

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"If I wanted to become a Muslim, or Buddhist..I wouldnt march into their temple and demand that everyone embrace Christ, or Vishnu."

Muslims accept Jesus Christ as a prophet of God, but don't give him as much status as Muhammed.

You can go into a Buddhist temple and embrace Jesus Christ...or any diety you want. Accepting the beliefs of Buddha doesn't mean you can't believe in or worship other dieties.

Vishnu is a Hindu god...I'm unsure how Hinduism regards the belief in other dieties.

@ Stuntman...

Your opinion is noted.... and ignored.

A suggestion? If you would actually like people to consider you and your opinions try making them without insulting people or their beliefs.
It just pisses them off and makes you look pretty ignorant.

Trust me, I've heard COUNTLESS arguments against religion. Hell, I've MADE countless arguments against religion. Insulting those you are trying to convert serves no purpose.

Unless you don't care about converting them and are just an ass, in general.
I can see several reasoned posts concerning homosexuality, for and against listed above in this thread. Yours is not one of them.

Toxicfish makes a good point. I have been accused, myself of being "insensative" to homosexuality at work. The reason? Because I picked on a guy about his taste in music. I never mentioned homosexuality and I never even knew he was gay, but because I picked on him for listening to "easy listening" music, instead of the "Classic Rock" that everyone else listened to I was accused of being a bigot.
I laughed at them concerning the accuisation, but did learn that humiliation in the workplace is never appropriate.

Originally posted by ThePastor:

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Toxicfish makes a good point. I have been accused, myself of being "insensative" to homosexuality at work. The reason? Because I picked on a guy about his taste in music. I never mentioned homosexuality and I never even knew he was gay, but because I picked on him for listening to "easy listening" music, instead of the "Classic Rock" that everyone else listened to I was accused of being a bigot.
I laughed at them concerning the accuisation, but did learn that humiliation in the workplace is never appropriate.

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To me it sounds like you were just teasing the guy in a friendly way. I would think gay people would not like to be treated different than anyone else. You being labeled a bigot sounds stupid to me

You're right. In my mind I had no ill will towards this guy and was just teasing him a bit about his music choice. Something we all do everyday.
"OMG you actually LIKE Back Street Boys?"
But, things can be misconstrued. That's why this type of thing just doesn't fly at work. When I screw with my friend because he's riding a moped that's one thing, but when I screw with a guy at work, someone who may or may not be a friend, well, things can be taken wrong. So, you're better off just not doing it.

In this case with Microsoft, It is possible that it was a similar thing, but more and more people got involved and it got quite inappropriate. The workers were wrong and deserved to be diciplined. But I don't think that means that MS is a bigoted company. This stuff just happens.

yeah you can't blame a company for the acts of a few individuals

@creaky

Ridiculous & irrelevant? What I said stands true. Maybe you don't like the way I said it, but I will not sugar coat my opinion. People act the way they do for a reason. If this guy got multiple people "harassing" him at work, he must have been doing something irregular right?

People use the "I was born this way" argument all too often as an excuse for flamboyant behavior. Shit, even the gay community will call other gays "fags" who act in said manner.

I am not saying that ridiculing someone at work because of their irregular mannerisms is accepted behavior... I am saying that there are consequences to those who draw too much attention to themselves. It is just a matter of how well do you get along with people. Obviously, Durrant did not get along well with his coworkers.

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Originally posted by ToxicFish:

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@creaky

Ridiculous & irrelevant? What I said stands true. Maybe you don't like the way I said it, but I will not sugar coat my opinion. People act the way they do for a reason. If this guy got multiple people "harassing" him at work, he must have been doing something irregular right?

People use the "I was born this way" argument all too often as an excuse for flamboyant behavior. Shit, even the gay community will call other gays "fags" who act in said manner.

I am not saying that ridiculing someone at work because of their irregular mannerisms is accepted behavior... I am saying that there are consequences to those who draw too much attention to themselves. It is just a matter of how well do you get along with people. Obviously, Durrant did not get along well with his coworkers.

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While I think gay people should have the same rights as everyone else, I agree with you, people who draw too much attention to themselves are annoying and not good for a work environment, but with that being said we don't know if that's how Durrant was or if the people at Lionhead are just intolerant of gays.

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If both partners in any relationship are consenting, it's noone else's goddamn business. Period. Don't be all confused and upset because "consent" takes some common sense and effort to establish. Yes, there's grey ares, but most of the time it's pretty darn obvious. Bushed nails it right on the head there =).

Being gay<>being Communist. Or Socialist. Anyone who thinks that it does should consider the Log Cabin Republicans. Yup, those're gay Republicans, folks. I dare you to walk up to nearly any Republican and call him/her a "Commie"..! LOL

NAMBLA's stated motto ("Sex before 8 or it's too late!", no lie) obiously fails the common sense test.

Just because Jeffery Dahmer was a gay, murderous, necrophilic, cannabilistic freak, has no bearing at all on any other person

Originally posted by ToxicFish:

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@creaky

Ridiculous & irrelevant?

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I wasn't referring to you, maybe you just feel guilty :)

Oops... my bad dude. I like how you mod, really. I was butt hurt that you were getting after me.

Get it... Butt hurt!!!


@Bozobub
What are you talking about? There wasn't any interoffice relationships going on.

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Homosexuals do have the same right as everyone else, concerning marriage.
They are free to marry virtually anyone of the opposite sex, just like the rest of the world. ;)

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