AfterDawn: Tech news

120 GB Xbox 360 drive is really only worth $100

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 21 Apr 2007 21:05 User comments (88)

120 GB Xbox 360 drive is really only worth $100 In the past week, the Xbox 360 Elite has been opened up and dissected and experts have checked every aspect of the new console.
During this inspection, the new 120 GB HDD was checked and it turns out Microsoft is overcharging for the drive, and overcharging alot. The drive is a Fujitsu MHW2120BH 2.5" laptop drive and doing a quick google search exposes that the drive sells for $100 average.

Im sure Microsoft can justify the extra $80 they are charging the consumer for the drive, but the question is, will we buy their reasoning?

Source:
Xb360fb

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88 user comments

121.4.2007 21:12

it would be easier to buy the drive online and set it up yourself. they are overcharging way to much

221.4.2007 22:10

Of course they are. Because they can. It's a "console," as in made for average consumers??? Average people don't know what a hard drive really is not to mention how to install one. What, are they supposed to charge the same price as an OEM drive sealed in an anti-static bag or something? You know the ones! They have a little sticker on them that says "The Content is Made in China." lol Nice Engrish.

322.4.2007 0:09

Overcharging huh!! tell us alll something we don't know da'h

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 0:10

422.4.2007 0:42

I will get some extra money during the summer, and after that I have been thinking to buy a new console. If only they had put HD drive to this elite version, it would be harder to chose between PS3 and Xbox 360 elite. But as we see, there is no HD drive. PS3 price isn't so high if we compare it to the xbox 360 elite with a external hd drive, so at this moment I am pretty sure that i will buy PS3, because it has the movie capability in better looking design. Just think about how terrible it looks when you have black 360 elite and grey HD drive under your new black full hd LCD tv.. and if there will be a black hd drive, it still doesn't sound good.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 0:44

522.4.2007 1:09
WierdName
Inactive

And yet they bad mouth Sony for their $600 consle *rolls eyes*

622.4.2007 2:59

microsoft are milking us.
i would rather buy a ps3 because in the end it would work out cheaper

722.4.2007 3:25

Originally posted by IM1:
microsoft are milking us.
That would be correct my friend......

822.4.2007 4:56

you cant buy the "drive" tho because they have locked the frimware this is the main problem with the 360 if the frimware was not locked then you can put any slim sata drive you wanted into it.

So the only choice you have is their 180$ version until someone makes a working hack.

Sadly MS has tooken the dumb sheeple approach and are milking the 360 with bad dispensation to the MAX.

At least the PS3 seems to be built without hotglue and tape....I still want the PS3 to be cheaper but frankly with MS having its finger up its rear about the hardware its goign to be a year before thats fixed...

922.4.2007 5:16
janrocks
Inactive

All this stuff about locked firmware relates to the dvd drive.

If you know how to format the HDD you can use any laptop sata drive.

1022.4.2007 5:21

Originally posted by janrocks:
All this stuff about locked firmware relates to the dvd drive.

If you know how to format the HDD you can use any laptop sata drive.
really?
that I did not know.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1122.4.2007 5:47

the good thing with the ps3 is you put any 2.5" HDD or external HDD via USB

1222.4.2007 5:53

Originally posted by cashman91:
the good thing with the ps3 is you put any 2.5" HDD or external HDD via USB
well they messed up the USB HDD support a update back on the PS3 I wonder if its fixed mmmmmm anyway the 360 is messy

1322.4.2007 6:02

i will be buying this console whether they are over charging me or not... i was planning on getting a 360 before the launch of Halo 3 and now that it is in black is more reason than ever to buy the console.... is it possible to make your own drive for the 360 that is larger than 120 gb

1422.4.2007 6:08

Originally posted by mknapper1:
i will be buying this console whether they are over charging me or not... i was planning on getting a 360 before the launch of Halo 3 and now that it is in black is more reason than ever to buy the console.... is it possible to make your own drive for the 360 that is larger than 120 gb
Just to be warned they have not changed the CPU on it so it still have the heating issues of the normal line so basically your paying 200$ for a new HD.

soemoen correct me if I am wrogn but you can get a component or DVI to HDMI adapter that is the same or better than the HDMI port on the 360,hell a upconverter than can take any in and out put them would be best if you had 300-500$ more to kill >>
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 6:11

1522.4.2007 6:10

If the console is upgradeable. I say do it yourself and get a huge drive soo u will not have any problems and u can take the middle man out of the equation.

1622.4.2007 6:13

Originally posted by borhan9:
If the console is upgradeable. I say do it yourself and get a huge drive soo u will not have any problems and u can take the middle man out of the equation.
I dunno in order to get the HD to work you need the HD kit so you will need a premium then you would need to get a HD then fool with it and then install it at 80 above cost tis not to ridiculous to save time and effort.

1722.4.2007 6:34

Originally posted by mknapper1:
i will be buying this console whether they are over charging me or not... i was planning on getting a 360 before the launch of Halo 3 and now that it is in black is more reason than ever to buy the console.... is it possible to make your own drive for the 360 that is larger than 120 gb

I agree completely with mk. Although I'd expect a 120 drive to be a bit more expensive than 100$. More like 150$ :)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 6:38

1822.4.2007 6:38

Quote:
Originally posted by mknapper1:
i will be buying this console whether they are over charging me or not... i was planning on getting a 360 before the launch of Halo 3 and now that it is in black is more reason than ever to buy the console.... is it possible to make your own drive for the 360 that is larger than 120 gb

I agree completely with mk. Although I'd expect a 120 drive to be a bit more expensive than 100$ more like 150$ :)

=====================================================================
their selling it by itself for 180..........

1922.4.2007 6:39

Quote:
=====================================================================
their selling it by itself for 180..........

Oh.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 6:40

2022.4.2007 6:43

Quote:
[quote]=====================================================================
their selling it by itself for 180..........

Oh.[/quote]ya all in all its a bad time to buy since later this year they are changing the CPU thus reducing or removing the heat problems of the 360 so all in all if you have one wait if you dont wait....

2122.4.2007 7:10
ThaJazz
Inactive

m$ is overcharging for the drive to cover all the millions they lost on the system launch.i think the timing is all off for this console they should wait to the new chipset is ready to be installed in these things.$479.00 for a great machine that will not overheat is way cooler than the bs they are trying to push now.

2222.4.2007 7:14

Originally posted by ThaJazz:
m$ is overcharging for the drive to cover all the millions they lost on the system launch.i think the timing is all off for this console they should wait to the new chipset is ready to be installed in these things.$479.00 for a great machine that will not overheat is way cooler than the bs they are trying to push now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*nods nods*
to messed up for to much money...

2322.4.2007 7:29

i did a search, and the cheapest 120gb 2.5" hdd new was $75. that could go into a ps3, but not the propriatary xbox 360. but when your consles cost your ocmpany 3-5 billion dollars in bac cash, what can you do i guess? not buy the product i say.

2422.4.2007 7:44

there's not really any point in buying the Elite, it does basically everything the premium does.

2522.4.2007 8:45

X360 is just too expensive..
PS3 is just too expensive..
Wii is a bit expensive..

and With that Expensive console, MS only use GLUE !?

2622.4.2007 8:48

Originally posted by jutsu:
X360 is just too expensive..
PS3 is just too expensive..
Wii is a bit expensive..

and With that Expensive console, MS only use GLUE !?
glue and tape, scary ain't it :X

the PS3 is built better but not 600$ better more like 400$ better....

the WII I cant find much wrong with.

2722.4.2007 12:32

If it's rip off, DON"T BUY IT. Play pc games.

2822.4.2007 12:32

that just makes me mad, and to think i was considering buying one.

2922.4.2007 12:39
ThaJazz
Inactive

what is the problem if you think it cost to much dont buy it.but if you dont own a 360 and want one then buy it.or just save 80.00 buy a premium unless you need HDMI and 120gig other than that its the same thing

3022.4.2007 13:05

i'll stick with my premium....no need for HDMI plug since i'm using a vga connection so its still a digital signal.....the 120 gig hardrive sounds koo if it wasnt expensive....the new console looks nice but its really not worth it i'd stick with a premium and call it a day....

3122.4.2007 13:42

b18bek9
I think I will just wait till I can have the 120HD with HDMI and the new CPU all for under 450 :X

3222.4.2007 14:17

Originally posted by b18bek9:
i'll stick with my premium....no need for HDMI plug since i'm using a vga connection so its still a digital signal.....the 120 gig hardrive sounds koo if it wasnt expensive....the new console looks nice but its really not worth it i'd stick with a premium and call it a day....
VGA connection isnt digital.. its analogue.. DVI is digital.
Just like composit HD is analogue.. and HDMI is digital.

And Xbox360 Elite's HDMI is only 1.2.. which is a lame cheap ass HDMI.
The PS3 has HDMI 1.3 which has bigger bandwidth and supports more digital
surround 5.1 audio formats (due to the bigger data bandwidth).

I'll stick to the premium.. I've alreay gotten ripped off buying cheap hardware aka. xbox30 (has been in repair twice in 12 months).
I dont want to get ripped off even more just to get a half assed
HDMI and overpriced 120gb drive.

3322.4.2007 14:20
mark5hs
Inactive

still not as big a rip off as the 20GB drive they would charge $100 for

3422.4.2007 14:24

Originally posted by mark5hs:
still not as big a rip off as the 20GB drive they would charge $100 for

ps3 20GB version rough esitmate
HD 50$ (60gb is 60$)
Wi fi 50$
Multi card reader 50$

so the lower end PS3 is pretty much crap if it was 200 less than the 60 then it would be a real low end unit.

3522.4.2007 16:35

First off - @janrocks:
Since I first encountered you, and told you off with no cause whatsoever, I am constantly amazed at how well you keep up with this stuff, most people completely missed the bits about replacing the sata drive when they were found a while back, bravo!

On to the meat:
This story has been going all over the net; but really, it's no big surprise. If anyone is actually caught off guard by this, they need to get their head checked. Let's examine some history here:

XBox - The same internal components, piece for piece were sold by Microsoft as a "Business machine" for a few years. The only difference was the firmware/software. Well, that and it used a keyboard/mouse instead of a controller. Although it's kind of funny to picture a big office full of frustrated employees trying to conjur up financial reports and input data with an onscreen keyboard and the controller, lol!

360 DVD Drive - People have discovered they can switch in new drives to their 360's; so long as they make sure the firmware, etc matches up. There is a large market of ebay sellers who make a good chunk of change this way.

This sort of thing has been pretty consistent with M$, and it was discovered early on with the 360, that this was just a laptop sata drive, which can (with some technical know-how) be swapped out in favor of a larger drive. Reportedly, it's not even something that gets you banned from Live.

When you buy a part specifically made by the original hardware manufacturer, tailored to your game system, do you really think you're getting your raw money's worth? If so, please go back to that whole bit about getting your head checked, it's probably a really good idea, lol. Bottom line here; companies have been doing this for quite some time, the original xbox used standard ide drives, which (Again, with technical know-how) could be swapped for much larger drives.

Heck, there was even something back in the day, about a third-party company selling replacement cart connectors for the old-school nes that were cheaper and better quality; but "'Nintendo' brand replacement parts cost more because they're uh.... Special!" You pay for their specially tailored casing/connectors that look prettier, and you pay for them to repackage it with their name on the fancy box. Of course you're not getting the drive for it's original value. I'd really like to see this fact change, but I'm not holding my breath. I am holding my breath that as homebrew starts to emerge, we'll be able to store saves, etc on external drives; and maybe use them as regular drives altogether, through the help of crafty basement developers. Who knows.

OH! And as for the CPU bit that came up earlier, I thought I would issue some warning, to prevent problems for another consumer such as myself - The new elite black 360s will NOT have the 65nm cpu which means they are just as susceptable to overheating, etc as the standard ones are right now. I'm not telling you not to buy it, because I've had a lot of fun with mine, and hey friggin' Halo 3; I am suggesting you buy from somewhere with a two year warranty that specifically replaces your system in-store on an immediate basis. Gamestop is great at promptly replacing systems, but as far as I know, they're limited to one year. Remember, a warranty is a good idea with any system(I should've used mine before it ran out, the system died about two months after my extended warranty), unless you're buying Nintendo manufacturing, at which point many would speculate one to be throwing their money away, lol.

My big interest with this story though; is if this will spur on more modders to simply replace their drives themselves, and possibly even get the homebrew scene somewhat kickstarted. That sure would be nice, 360 owners have been waiting a while. Because the drives aren't specifically system-locked, it makes things a lot easier than M$' last system, and should be much more accessible to would-be modders and homebrew afficiondos, fingers crossed.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 16:35

3622.4.2007 16:44

handsom
jan rocks :X

first the BWC thing now the CPU over heating thing....prehaps in another year I can buy a nice simple white premium with the 65NM CPU and buy a nice sized HDD for it.

I wonder if they change the HDMI setup next year to try and push newer elite sales I knew MS was going to take a mini model update appoarch to keep prices up, but I never figured they would do it constantly off the back of failed hardware.......as screwed up as the PS3 is its worth the money if you don't mind the 10-20 PS3 exclusives it will have over 6 years...

3722.4.2007 17:11

I'm a little confused here... I hope my statement wasn't misread, it was sheerly a compliment to janrocks, whom I completely misjudged on my first thread encounter. Subsequently, I ended up getting myself banned for it; which was probably for the best, it gave me some time to cool off a bit, which was really good. I only wish it hadn't been a full month, lol. It was kind of hard, because I get very bored, and I'm not one to open a new account and try to bend, workaround, or violate forum rules; so I basically stayed away almost completely for one month.

But yeah, I was just complementing the fact that janrocks seems to be right on top of all the 360 mod goings on, and most people really aren't.

As for 65nm 360s, about a year does sound right. I'm still looking to replace my system, but I'm debating over a few things here:
-Do I want to do it now and get a warranty, or wait for the 65nm?
-Do I think the 65nm will be as moddable as the current models?
-Do I want to get the regular or the elite? I've already got a (smaller) hard drive, and I can always upgrade it myself, so it may not be worth my while to put out for a black one; as I've shown here before, I'm no stranger to system case modding, so I'm not concerned about painting a new 360, lol.

I'm just giving those things some thought, and still thinking about what shop's warranty will meet my needs. I need a two-year(One is usually not sufficient), I need to know that they will replace it in-store, I'm not mailing anything out and waiting to hear back, I would also like to look into pawning off my current(Broken) 360, so I've got some things to think about before I re-purchase. I love the system, but I want to really get it right this time around. You know?

3822.4.2007 17:13

Hey all.

I don't understand why microsoft are releasing a new version of the 360 without the HD-DVD drive built in. To me, this seems really stupid that they would go through the trouble of adding a HDMI port, adding a bigger hdd but not upgrade the dvd drive to HD-DVD. I see a definate future proofing there, especially when they have the chance to make games using HD-DVD, with more space to store more textures or hi-res stuff for a game. Mmm...everything is all a little weird here.

Someone enlighten me why this obvious addition was left off the xbox elite..

3922.4.2007 17:16

handsom
no really jan rocks (waving flag I heart jan)

LOL


well seeing as how MS is goign to use the mountain of broken 360s to replace broken 360s I wouldn't worry about buying now and having MS replace it.

as for modding unless MS focus on moding whatever pittful change MS did to the elite will be "fixed" in months,really all in all wait till 65NM is out and then the elites might start begin made with them so Xmas-march would be the best time to pounce on what you want ^^

4022.4.2007 17:18

Originally posted by phatbass8:
Hey all.

I don't understand why microsoft are releasing a new version of the 360 without the HD-DVD drive built in. To me, this seems really stupid that they would go through the trouble of adding a HDMI port, adding a bigger hdd but not upgrade the dvd drive to HD-DVD. I see a definate future proofing there, especially when they have the chance to make games using HD-DVD, with more space to store more textures or hi-res stuff for a game. Mmm...everything is all a little weird here.

Someone enlighten me why this obvious addition was left off the xbox elite..

...................................
question
do you want a heat failing 600-700$ "elite" 360?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 17:22

4122.4.2007 17:22

@phatbass

That's all an entire speculation. First off, it's being widely stated that many people are against the fact that Sony forces Blu-ray down consumers throats, everyone has their own personal feelings on that one, so I'd like to avoid getting into that.

Bottom line, M$ is offering HD-DVD as an option, not a necessity, and that's why it's not integrated. It's too soon in the format race to build one thing in, and make people pay more for it, when you don't know what's going to happen. You don't want to piss a lot of people off by making them chuck an extra 150-200 for a device to be integrated that may not survive for another year. That's how you make happy customers and fans turn into angry consumers and rabid anti-fans.

If M$ put that drive into elites, it still wouldn't be usable for games, because it's not a 'standard' device. By not forcing an HD drive into their system, M$ keeps cost down. That's been a major selling point for them, so it wouldn't make sense for them to copy their competition, and cut at one of their bigger edges in the market, now would it?

Before any Sony fanboys get all uppity about this, please remember that these statements are widespread, and not just my own, heck the GoW2 lead even came out and said bluntly that "Sony including the Blu-ray drive was a bad idea", like it or not this topic has been a source of a LOT of controversy... So it wouldn't make sense for M$ to do the same thing. I am happy about the HDMI, but it's hardly a "crucial selling point" even to me, and I've got a 42" HDTV and 6.1 Dolby surround; so I'm kind of the group that it "should" matter to, lol.


@ZippyDSM
*Whines* But I don't wanna wait until December or March!

Seriously, do you have any idea how absolutely taunting it is to have a broken 360 sitting on the shelf with about eight good games that you would LOVE to be playing right now? OMG it makes my heart so sad! The Wii is holding me off for now, but I dunno how long that will last, considering Nintendo's notorious first-year slumps. *Fingers crossed for another great DS year...*

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 17:24



"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim

4222.4.2007 17:27

not to mention the 360 is built around DVD adding HDVD to it and bloating its price is pointless,hell the indutry will still be useing DVD as the main format for games and stuff for the next 5 years easy.

putting the failing hardware aside the 360 is a lump of specs the PS3 is a bit better built but not 200$ better.

Hansom
HDVD threw the elite HDMI any detail on that?
I know in the scheme of things its not important Hdef wont really play a huge role in things for another 5 years, but it would help the 360 to be less of a hodge podge.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 17:31

4322.4.2007 17:29

handsom
ya I got a PS2 to fix before I can play games it sucks,MS wont fix it?
if they will its better to play tag with MS's RMA depo than to haul out and buy a new one twice...

I am waiting for Metroid prime 3 to be relesed befor I jump for a WII >>

4422.4.2007 17:34

Originally posted by phatbass8:
Hey all.

I don't understand why microsoft are releasing a new version of the 360 without the HD-DVD drive built in. To me, this seems really stupid that they would go through the trouble of adding a HDMI port, adding a bigger hdd but not upgrade the dvd drive to HD-DVD. I see a definate future proofing there, especially when they have the chance to make games using HD-DVD, with more space to store more textures or hi-res stuff for a game. Mmm...everything is all a little weird here.

Someone enlighten me why this obvious addition was left off the xbox elite..
Because Microsoft who have been a mjor advocate of HD-DVD aren't sure
the format will win. If you read the news that went around when the
Elite news broke they even went as far to say that if Blu-ray wins
they are in the position to supply the demand for it on the 360.

Its not exactly the kind of "back tracking" that gives you confidence
in the HD-DVD format, especially coming from a once major supporter.

Besides.. if they DID put a HD-DVD drive in it.. the price would probably
be closer to a PS3.. without Wifi builtin. And they wont be able to
release an Elite 2 or whatever next year with proper HDMI 1.3, a
high def DVD format drive, and a 65n CPU.

The thing that sux is Microsoft are making the xbox just like PCs,
update the model every year and watch suckers pay up the cash. The
whole idea we bought a xbox console was to get away from having to
update our CPU/memory/graphics cards every year to play PC games.

4522.4.2007 17:37

handsom - Thanks for the quick response. It's really a gamble though. All that stuff you said I thought of...but it still seems a bit odd though. It's all well and good to give people the option like that, but what happens then when Blu-ray becomes the one format...will sony allow microsoft to use their format for their console? Then it begs the question as to whether people will be happy about having to fork-out another $250AUD (i'm aussie) or most likely more because it's Sony, for another drive after they've purchased the HD-DVD drive.

To be quite honest, this is going to turn really ugly, fast. I think the days of simple gaming are over. I think we face a future of a million different accessory add-ons that are going to confuse the normal consumer (outside of hardcore gamers).

I do feel a little insulted though that now my 360 will be replaced by another version, then probably again in the future when they release another one with a cool running cpu (apparently).

I love microsoft, but this is a really badly planned way of future proofing consoles. A lot of people, including myself, won't be happy when there are all these different versions of the same console on the market. I guess in the end, it's all about the money.

4622.4.2007 17:42

I don't think we will ever see a winner of the HD format wars. I think more than likely we are going to see hibrid players that play both formats as a common occurence. No one is letting up so i think we are stuck with 2 different formats till another one comes along.

4722.4.2007 17:46

mbuena
not quite, ever here of the 13 revisions of the PS2?
and thats pre slim line mid way in the "upgrade"(chipset change including CPU manufatoring) for cheaper parts they dumped the USB mini port as well as made other changes while not as obvious as the 360 its still rather annoying allot of 2nd/3rd parties had issues with their USB support not to mention at least 2 sets of failed lens witch carried over to the slim line

MS made mistakes with the 360 first MS released the 360 to quickly 2ndly they didn't reject/recall the bad hardware 3rdly they recert said bad hardware 4thly they are tryign to match the "premiumness" of the PS3 by hosing some paint onto the 360 and calling it elite without fixing the core of the problems,the new systems later this year will have the new CPU and hopfuly be fixed despite the hardware issue the 360 still has a good lineup of games and services making it "worth" most of the money they want for it the PS3 never will be "worth" the 600$ sony demands.

Neither corporation knows how to be slender and consumer friendly both rampage around like a mindless bull because they have the might to do it.

4822.4.2007 17:56

phatbass8
the 360 is not begin replaced,the elite is their uber premium version,they will still have the cores and the normal premium and the CPU deal is no different than any other chipset change, however MS has been really bad about gettign the heat troubles of the 360 under wraps.

"Simple" gaming ended in 2000 when graphics were made the center of gaming.


Again the 360 is not "upgrade happy" the CPU change offers no speed boost just better heat dispensation its no different than chipset/heatsnik changes(happens about every 6-16 months its called revisions) the HDMI/120GB combo is a attempt to look cooler than they are by fluffing on some newer tech to try and look good next to the PS3 its no different than offering a core,low, premium model.

MSs faltal flaw to me is the lack of nipping the bad hardware in the bud while it was fresh from the factory because they did not do this they have a ton of bad hardware and are jsut recyleing it threw RMAs thats causeign bad RMAs,sonys fatal flaw is thinking the normal gaming public would bend over for thier beast.

4922.4.2007 17:57

M$ wouldn't fix it because A.)It's launch, so it's well out of warranty, and B.) It's firmware modded. They wouldn't touch it.

As for M$ being unsure about HD-DVD... Yeah. They are. But if they're unsure, I don't want them to force it into my system. And hey, they aren't replacing anyone's system out there. They are offereing a more deluxe, better option. It's really a similar story to Nintendo releasing the GBA SP, no gameplay difference, just more pleasant to use.

Something tells me that Blu-ray is going to win, regardless of anyone's thoughts on the quality/cost/etc, because it's in the PS3, which will succeed, regardless of how many mistakes Sony makes, they are a freaking behemoth that cannot be stopped, so it doesn't matter. Ironically though, the inclusion of Blu-ray in the system(And coincidentally, in the pricetag) is the very reason that I have no intention of buying one.

Then there are many other sources indicating that neither format will 'win', but rather that there may exist either a mutual flop, or even a complete stalemate, as the industry is divided until some new more mutually agreeable format comes about.

Ultimately, I buy a game system for just that - Gaming. If I want to chat, check my e-mail, or browse the web, I wouldn't use my console for it in the first place, it always has, and probably always will be better on a pc for that. As for movie playing, I'd like to point out something that seems to have been overlooked in earlier comments:

The PS3 comes with the Blu-ray player, the 360 comes with DVD(Upscaling too, if you have the right cable), and the Wii comes with no video disc support at all. Sony's standpoint is to force success of a new format by including it with a product they think is sure to win either way, it's the same concept that M$ had shoving the Halo3 beta invites in with Crackdown(Incidentally, a fantastic game that just wouldn't have gotten much attention otherwise.) M$ has said with the 360, "Yeah, we do video, and if you want you can upgrade it", Nintendo has basically responded by saying "We're a game system, not a movie player... But we cost a lot less."

So we've got all three company standpoints here, right? Well, let's take that data, and associate it with sales figures. The PS3 is suffering some simply awful sales, compared to expectations and records, particularly in Europe, some stores are having to do massive sales and trade in offers to move these systems off their shelves. The 360 is seeing fairly solid, but in all fairness somewhat lacking sales on the hardware end, with EXCELLENT sales in the software department - Titles like Lost Planet, Gears of War, and Crackdown are doing very well. Lastly, the Wii, the one that simply opted out of video support ALTOGETHER is the number one selling system(By a large margin), many stores can't keep it ON the shelf, Nintendo makes a profit on the base system itself, unlike Sony and M$ who are making deficit sales. The system is lower scale hardware(Also by a large margin), but people are eager to put out for it at a lower cost, for more innovation(Controls) and more raw-fun oriented gameplay. These are actual sales figures, and they say a lot more than anyone here can with an opinion of why they like company X. Many people say that if gamers want to make a statement, they're better off making it with their wallets, instead of their mouths; I couldn't think of a better example of gamers saying they're more interested in a lower price point then video-disc support, and hi-res. It's just blatantly proven in sales over the last (roguhly) six months, it couldn't be more visible and plain to see.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 17:59

5022.4.2007 17:58

Originally posted by phatbass8:
I don't think we will ever see a winner of the HD format wars. I think more than likely we are going to see hibrid players that play both formats as a common occurence. No one is letting up so i think we are stuck with 2 different formats till another one comes along.
its 50/50 however if cheap(250$) dual players are not out by mid 09 HDVD will probably put nails in BRs coffin unless BR can undercut itself more than it is.

5122.4.2007 18:01

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:
phatbass8
the 360 is not begin replaced,the elite is their uber premium version,they will still have the cores and the normal premium and the CPU deal is no different than any other chipset change, however MS has been really bad about gettign the heat troubles of the 360 under wraps.

"Simple" gaming ended in 2000 when graphics were made the center of gaming.


Again the 360 is not "upgrade happy" the CPU change offers no speed boost just better heat dispensation its no different than chipset/heatsnik changes(happens about every 6-16 months its called revisions) the HDMI/120GB combo is a attempt to look cooler than they are by fluffing on some newer tech to try and look good next to the PS3 its no different than offering a core,low, premium model.

MSs faltal flaw to me is the lack of nipping the bad hardware in the bud while it was fresh from the factory because they did not do this they have a ton of bad hardware and are jsut recyleing it threw RMAs thats causeign bad RMAs,sonys fatal flaw is thinking the normal gaming public would bend over for thier beast.

But the thing is, this Elite version will become the normal by the end of the year, as in all premium and basic packs will have this elite version, but will be just the plain white version. Then there will be a devide of people with older xbox 360's and people with new ones.

5222.4.2007 18:01

handsom
mmmmmmmmmmm buy a used 360 then maybe? 0-o
I mean come one buying 2 360s is a bit OTT I;d rather just buy a PS3 and get that dealt with then pay oamage to MS more than I have to >>

5322.4.2007 18:09

I refuse to purchase a PS3, not till it is about $300 AUD. Also, I keep reading bad review after bad review on the games for it. Personally, i like to call the PS3 a "Hand-me-down" machine, as it seems to be getting all these games from the 360 that were released almost a year ago...

5422.4.2007 18:16

@ZippyDSM

LOL; It's not TOO bad... I'm not planning on buying two 360's and walking away with only one that works, lol.

Figure I'll have one for strictly legit commercial apps... And one for other things. :D Best of both worlds, eh?

And as for the 'standardization' bit. It STILL leads back to the SP scenario Nintendo introduced with the GBA. Yes, it ended up replacing the old hardware almost completely; but it didn't matter if you had the original, it worked just as well, so it honestly had no impact. The item you purchased will still be just as useful as when you bought it; they are simply enticing MORE customers to join your 'camp' so to speak. And quite frankly, that's something to be happy about, not something for people to be on here bishing about. It means more third parties will pay closer attention; if the elite elevates sales, then third parties will care more about doing better ports and more titles on the system, no matter which way you look at it, you win.

It reminds me of an old parable:
A farmowner goes out looking for workers to harvest his farm. He offers them 20 shillings to work that day. He offers them all the same amount, even if they came towards the end of that day. At the end of the day, some workers began to complain that they got twenty shillings, because it's the same thing given to those who came later in the day; they felt it was unfair. The farmowner then questioned those who felt mistreated and underpaid by reminding them that they agreed to a set wage for a set amount of work. The fact that others might have gotten a better 'deal' was irrelevant.

When you buy a major appliance, you'd be stupid not to expect A.)It's price will decrease, and B.)A better version is never far around the corner. Be happy with what you buy, or don't buy it. But don't complain when they inevitable 'better thing' comes to others.




"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim

5522.4.2007 18:23

handsom
I cant stand live so its all just lost moeny to me :X

but waiting is not to bad.

5622.4.2007 18:36

Originally posted by handsom:
@ZippyDSM

When you buy a major appliance, you'd be stupid not to expect A.)It's price will decrease, and B.)A better version is never far around the corner. Be happy with what you buy, or don't buy it. But don't complain when they inevitable 'better thing' comes to others.
Of course, but this is the same console with major differences, not little upgrades, like the many different versions of PS2.

I just had another thought, I wonder if eventually games on the 360 will be marked with "HDMI output only" or something similar. I'm just reminded of a few games, not that it affected me, but here in Australia there are a few games (Test Drive, Dead Or Alive) that had on the front of the box "60Hz Only". Then those with the older 360's will be screwed, but no doubt by that stage all of the older 360's will probably be at the rubbish tip.

5722.4.2007 18:45

Now that'ssome oddity there. I haven't heard of htz restrictions since the days of the Dreamcast. Ick.

But then again, a lot of major companies pay a lot less attention to Australia, so I guess they get a lot of unconventional releases that should really receive more polish... : /

Bottom line on the HD-DVD thing, I really don't anticipate that coming for games on the 360 at all; even if they do pack it in. And I would be surprised if they started making games HDMI only, it would be particularly strange, because there are still so many people who don't and won't have HDMI for quite some time. So, it's like ignoring an entire section of market that your game/product could go to. I just don't foresee that happening on a large scale. I'm sure there will be minor snags somewhere, and that it may present some issues on the homebrew front; but ultimately, I don't see the Elite as a replacement; I see it as a more deluxe 'option'. If it was a replacement, we'd be talking genuinely better hardware, not just a bigger drive and HDMI, I mean a faster processor, more ram, etc. This is more of a Mark II product, like the slimline ps2 or the late gen snes systems.

As for the Live thing...

Live really is a personal preference, and nothing more at the moment. But it's good that silver is completely free, because more and more games are beginning to screw the people who don't do online. It's getting to the point where the majority of game's playability is found only online. I mean, even back in 2004(Or was it '03, I can't remember...) Halo2 launched, and it's primary fun was to be found in online multiplayer, unless you happen to have easy access to extra tvs systems, controllers, and network equipment to hook it all up with. lol.

That said, I think Live (and online gameplay period, for that matter) are becoming less and less of a choice than they used to be, for better or worse.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2007 @ 18:47



"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim

5822.4.2007 18:49

It's messed up here in Australia with gaming. We have a massive gaming base and yet we are still being left behind the rest of the world. I think the only claim to fame i know of over America was the fact the we had Wii Play for Nintendo Wii about 4-5 months before America did.

I know, hz restrictions are crazy, I guess we do still have a lot of people with older T.V's that only handle 50hz. Oh, i forgot, obviously Gears of War was also a 60hz only release.

5922.4.2007 18:57

Geez, I really feel for you down there. I've heard it's bad, and I know a lot of Aus releases are really staggered, I would go nuts waiting on companies for that. I think they've concluded that markets like Japan, Europe and the US are better prospects, so everyone else just goes onto the back burner, which is really sad. I really wonder if that's ever going to change...

6022.4.2007 19:06

Quote:

Of course, but this is the same console with major differences, not little upgrades, like the many different versions of PS2.

I just had another thought, I wonder if eventually games on the 360 will be marked with "HDMI output only" or something similar. I'm just reminded of a few games, not that it affected me, but here in Australia there are a few games (Test Drive, Dead Or Alive) that had on the front of the box "60Hz Only". Then those with the older 360's will be screwed, but no doubt by that stage all of the older 360's will probably be at the rubbish tip.
There's only 2 differences, a bigger HD (which you can buy alone, or apparently upgrade manually) and an HDMI port, and the only reason they're coming out is so the MS can push IPTV. I doubt they'd ever come out with a game that required HDMI output, since game developers want to sell games to as many people as possible, and MS makes their real money from getting a piece of software sales, not console sales.

As for this article, a $180 HD is a ripoff, and I seriously doubt I'll ever buy one at that price, but for someone who doesn't own a 360, they're only spending $80 more for the HD and HDMI port. Hopefully one day MS and their partners will figure out a pricing structure the works for extra features, this and the prices they put on downloadable content are waaay too high (GH2 songpacks??), but the best way to let them know is to vote with your wallet and not buy overpriced crap.

6122.4.2007 22:54

looks like a boost for blu ray =]

6223.4.2007 0:03
webe123
Inactive

I WISH they had a console like the wii, but with the power of the ps3 or xbox 360 that mainly concentrated on GAMING!

It seems the newest trend in console manufacturers is to make a "do it all" console and this in turn raises the price of the console significantly. Not to mention the other hardware/softaware problems it brings!

If Sony and Microsoft really want to give out choice to the consumer....mabe they could make a stripped down version of both consoles that mainly concentrated on gaming. This would not only lower the price, but with more simple consoles, it might solve a lot of problems the console manufacturers have with trying to put everything in one unit!

I agree with what has already been posted. If I want to check my email, surf the web or any other computer-related task, I have a COMPUTER that I can do all that on. If I buy a console, I buy it for ONE reason...gaming. Most people do also.

To me a computer is a computer and a console is a console. I really don't see the reason in trying to combine the two. Why? Because eventually you have to make compromises by combining them and I just don't see why that should be. They both do what they do as seperate units very well.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Apr 2007 @ 0:07

6323.4.2007 5:04

I'm glad that people agree. It was kind of a cool novelty, back when Sony was talking about how the ps2 would do all this (Oh, wait, Sony never actually made that happen!); which was a nifty idea at first, but now that features like that and movie playback are becoming a 'standard' part of the industry, it feels like we're slipping away from a once consumer-friendly market again.

Like I've said, the Wii is proving that people would rather pay a lower price tag for a system that JUST plays games, even if it does have inferior graphics hardware. I think it's great that the sales figures show that so strongly. My only question now is, what are the competition going to do about it?




"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim

6423.4.2007 6:02

[quote=handsom]@phatbass

That's all an entire speculation. First off, it's being widely stated that many people are against the fact that Sony forces Blu-ray down consumers throats, everyone has their own personal feelings on that one, so I'd like to avoid getting into that.

How can you say they forcing you to get Blu-ray when they dont come to nobodies door and say get off your @#$ and get this PS3 with a gun to somebodies head. Also if none of these game companies didnt introduce a new format yall all would be sitting here like why the hell arent they using Blu-ray or like some else said why the hell arent they using HD-DVD on the 360. Im glad they want to change the gaming industry and yeah between the 360 and PS3 they need to put the fun back into the games but again whats the fuss about when PS3 games are still $60 with Blu-ray format but the 360 charges the same price for a non-HD-DVD format. So if people want to complain thats a thing to complain about pay $60+ for games made the same as the old xbox.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Apr 2007 @ 6:03

6523.4.2007 6:14

Better looking games=more cost=higher price

thats pretty much the main point of it one could also say as long as they boost the price of the games up 10$ they can make a profit off game sales better.

All in all the 360 has proven itself to be a fun drunk(hardware issues) and the PS3 has proven its a shallow rich brat (lack of worth while games and price of system) it needs time to mature.

the WII is the little genius whos gone a bit mad from playing in lab all day but all in all fun to be around(new control scheme,dated graphics,ect,ect).

6623.4.2007 13:22

You guys gotta remember that the xbox did have a head start on the ps3 and when the xbox first came out, there was really not much that tickles your fancy. I'd say give ps3 1 year and we'll start seeing developers pushing the hardware like its meant to be. Not to mention MIT now has a class on the Cell Processor the ps3 has and how the ps3 is pretty future proof in hardware.

6723.4.2007 13:46

Originally posted by luke0219:
You guys gotta remember that the xbox did have a head start on the ps3 and when the xbox first came out, there was really not much that tickles your fancy. I'd say give ps3 1 year and we'll start seeing developers pushing the hardware like its meant to be. Not to mention MIT now has a class on the Cell Processor the ps3 has and how the ps3 is pretty future proof in hardware.
there still going to make another console in 4-6 years regardless, that aside the only real thign the PS3 has is BR the architecture of the PS3 has pretty much been debunked so its not all that hell the drive speed even holds back maximizing a full 50GB game the PS3 has allot of troubles ahead.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

6824.4.2007 4:35

I agree with you ZIppyDSM. I like the Wii i think its a fun system but a year or too down the line it will get old unless they add more to it.
M$ and Sony are the gaming juggernauts. They just need to put more fun in their games and stop trying to over technology the crap out of people. I like the new features they offer but at some point you gotta say likes make our games last more then just a few hours of playing then throw them a pile for dust.

6924.4.2007 7:37

I didn't read any of the above posts...

I asked the chic at EB games (in Canada)about the Elite. Round here you don't get a hard drive at all! Nothin! It's a black "core". I really hope she's an idiot that doesn't know what the hell she was talking about..

The black is soo much nicer though...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Apr 2007 @ 7:38

7024.4.2007 7:49

spydah
I like keeping and displaying my collection I do not part with any of it unless its the last option.

because of that I do not trade or sell my games so I dont have allot of money to throw at new sht I buy used since the newer stuff is extra short and shallow and buy used more.

Both MS and sony are focusing to hard on "media" and not gaming.


Logik666
if its 480 without a HD then prehaps its time to boycott MS for a coupel years...I doubt they would be that stupid tho...

7124.4.2007 8:14

why doesnt a company come around, and release a gaming oriented sysem, with atleast an 8800gt on the inside, a good processor, and get rid of all the extras. then charge near the same as the others, but have insane graphics and good online. my pc is for videos and music and all that.


But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66

7224.4.2007 8:25

Originally posted by anubis66:
why doesnt a company come around, and release a gaming oriented sysem, with atleast an 8800gt on the inside, a good processor, and get rid of all the extras. then charge near the same as the others, but have insane graphics and good online. my pc is for videos and music and all that.
they did it was called the Game Cube,Dreamcast and N64 :X
the saturn and PSX could play CDs thus starting the movement to "allplayers"

Sierously tho the MS and Sony are media companies they want to have their game system as the centerpiece of your entertainment center to do they they have to tact things on and pad the price by 50%.

If the WII had power to match the 360 it would be 80-180 more in price.

to me theres not allot of difference in the way Unreal 1 and Unreal 2 look its just smoother so fing what U2 sucks compared to U1 "power" is leading the industry down a bad road.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

7324.4.2007 9:09

imo, u1 blew huge chunks of projectile vomit. it was terribly layed out, and i could rarely find where i had to go sometimes. u2 i really enjoyed, sure it didn't quite fit right in the unreal universe, but excluding that it rocked with plenty of replay value. the graphics too of u2 were fantastic on older graphics cards like mine, and for games of its time.

and for my console comment, i'm talking a console with the highest end of graphics possble at that date, not the highes withing cheapness. the pc looked better than n64 at the time on launch.


But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66

7424.4.2007 9:20

Originally posted by anubis66:
imo, u1 blew huge chunks of projectile vomit. it was terribly layed out, and i could rarely find where i had to go sometimes. u2 i really enjoyed, sure it didn't quite fit right in the unreal universe, but excluding that it rocked with plenty of replay value. the graphics too of u2 were fantastic on older graphics cards like mine, and for games of its time.

and for my console comment, i'm talking a console with the highest end of graphics possble at that date, not the highes withing cheapness. the pc looked better than n64 at the time on launch.
U2 was just horrible the plot was bearable the story was stupid the charatcers made less and less since,while U1 didn't have a story it made it for it in well deigned levels and a good bit of exploring I'll take fun game play over crap story with watered down gameplay anyday.


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

7524.4.2007 10:06

charachters in new games never make sense because you are not in that world. do the covenant in halo make sense? no. do timesplitters make sense? no. its creativity that matters, and the people and guns in u2 were pretty interesting and unique.


But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

PS3 Username: Anubis66

7624.4.2007 10:18

Originally posted by anubis66:
charachters in new games never make sense because you are not in that world. do the covenant in halo make sense? no. do timesplitters make sense? no. its creativity that matters, and the people and guns in u2 were pretty interesting and unique.
do the covenant in halo make sense? YES
dose timesplitters make sense? NO(once you understand its uses fractured story's or multi story lines it make sences)

I am sorry but U2 blows in every since the weapons are nerfed the AI dumb the monsters handicaped,speaking of halo u2 is a poor halo clone.

Even tho U1 and U2 are different game types I'll take the free roaming level and fun level design over the overly generic U2 hell C&C renegade was better than that and thats about as mindless generic as you can get.


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

7724.4.2007 10:24

Originally posted by anubis66:
no. its creativity that matters

I'll remember you said this, Anubis.

I'll remember...

;-)

7824.4.2007 11:32
shiroh
Inactive

can we buy a Fujitsu MHW2120BH 2.5" laptop drive and pop it in?

someone need to make an image of the stock drive ;D

7924.4.2007 11:42

I believe you probably can as long as you have the same model but i dont know anybody that has done that. Would be cheaper that way too. Im certain M$ put some little screwy feature that will need to be cracked to do that. Oh and I know this is off the subject but how do I move off the newbie status to junior member or member and so forth?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Apr 2007 @ 11:45

8026.4.2007 10:55

Supposedly, you should be able to pop in any sata drive if you just format it correctly. It's not so much the brand/model number. It's the formatting that is key to this. I believe the 360 uses the same X-Fat format that the original xbox did, if I'm not mistaken.




"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim

8126.4.2007 15:21

A slow 5400RPM 2.5" hard drive! That's like 4 year old technology. How is that elite? Even at 1080i it's still low-res gaming to me! But hey, you buy xbox because for games not the hardware! You may be able to pirate more games for PC, but there's nothing like getting a full game at a rental store for $4 instantly and playing it until you get bored of it, and then renting another!

8227.4.2007 17:37

Originally posted by phatbass8:
It's messed up here in Australia with gaming. We have a massive gaming base and yet we are still being left behind the rest of the world. I think the only claim to fame i know of over America was the fact the we had Wii Play for Nintendo Wii about 4-5 months before America did.

I know, hz restrictions are crazy, I guess we do still have a lot of people with older T.V's that only handle 50hz. Oh, i forgot, obviously Gears of War was also a 60hz only release.
I am really surprised. For over 10 years here in India we have had TVs that can automatically handle both NTSC & PAL signals without having to do any thing at all.

8327.4.2007 18:09

if a dinky 20$ program on a load disc can convert most games to pal/ntsc its obvious the software makers would be in a much better position to code it in and be done with it the whole regoin scheme has failed,it would be best for all if they just make games with a basic pal/ntsc mode and then the HDef modes...

8427.4.2007 20:38

alright all i have to say is who the f*ck cares just bye a system you like and play games...rent games play them till your head is numb then get another one

8527.4.2007 21:21

i wish the wii would have been most costly for nintendo. maybe have a better graphics chip and just make a 10 dollar profit instead of a 100 dollar profit. the other two took a loss for the consumer. but this new (and old) 360 shit is scandalous.

8627.4.2007 21:27

anubis66
I wonder how many PS2s had lens issues(old and slim lines).
it would be interesting to compare numbers however a lens is a simple thing to swap a CPU/heatsink not so easy...

8720.5.2007 21:50

Acually, the lense problem was only involved in a select few PS2's which Sony fixed. But the problem I found to be more resilant was an issue with a small, but important, piece. I took my old PS2 apart (one of the fat one's) and I disovered that the issue was with a metal strip. The tray movement and lense movement are all connected. There is a small metal strip that connects to a spiral rod by tension. After opening and closing the tray over the years, the strip will lose tension and skip along the rod instead of moving along with it through the track. The problem is that the lense also moves along with this strip. After re-bending the strip to give it more tension, my PS2 ran fine for a few weeks, but inevidably the strip failed. That's why the new, thin PS2 has a pop-top. It solved the problem of constant use wearing away the strip. This crap-load of talk really doesn't prove anything, I just feel special for figuring that out. By the way luke0219, thanks for that info about the Cell, that's really cool.

8820.5.2007 22:05

Originally posted by CGNinja:
Acually, the lense problem was only involved in a select few PS2's which Sony fixed. But the problem I found to be more resilant was an issue with a small, but important, piece. I took my old PS2 apart (one of the fat one's) and I disovered that the issue was with a metal strip. The tray movement and lense movement are all connected. There is a small metal strip that connects to a spiral rod by tension. After opening and closing the tray over the years, the strip will lose tension and skip along the rod instead of moving along with it through the track. The problem is that the lense also moves along with this strip. After re-bending the strip to give it more tension, my PS2 ran fine for a few weeks, but inevidably the strip failed. That's why the new, thin PS2 has a pop-top. It solved the problem of constant use wearing away the strip. This crap-load of talk really doesn't prove anything, I just feel special for figuring that out. By the way luke0219, thanks for that info about the Cell, that's really cool.

=============================================
some of the slim line versions have issues with lens but in all MS seems to have a higher ammount of heating issues in the 360s.

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