AfterDawn: Tech news

"300" on Blu-ray sells almost twice as well as HD DVD rival

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 10 Aug 2007 18:06 User comments (61)

"300" on Blu-ray sells almost twice as well as HD DVD rival Earlier this week we reported that the blockbuster movie "300" had become the fastest and highest selling HD title to date.
In its first week of sales however, according to Home Media Magazine, the Blu-ray edition sold almost twice as well as its HD DVD rival.

The ratio, 65:35, is almost equal to the overall market share for HD movies, but the HD DVD camp had hoped for better sales citing general better reviews for the HD DVD version as well as an exclusive set of supplemental features.

Source:
HD Digest

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61 user comments

110.8.2007 18:08

I find this hard to believe. Every place I went to get this on hd-dvd was sold out up until today. They didn't have hd-dvd but had many blu-ray.

210.8.2007 18:14

I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.

310.8.2007 19:03

The HD DVD has better/more/cooler special features, when put aside both the DVD and Blu Ray copies. I'm gunna rent the HD DVD copy and go over my rich friend's house =D

410.8.2007 19:03

Just cause you saw more at a store doesn't mean it didn't sell well.

I can go to a store and find a ton of copies of a popular game that doesn't mean the game isn't selling well.

510.8.2007 19:09

When there are more Blu-Ray players in homes then HD-DVD players, obviously its going to sell more. This was pointless.

610.8.2007 19:48

Originally posted by khmernize:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.


the commercial i saw said on dvd and high-definition

710.8.2007 19:56

Quote:
Originally posted by khmernize:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.


the commercial i saw said on dvd and high-definition
ditto

810.8.2007 20:15

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by khmernize:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.


the commercial i saw said on dvd and high-definition
ditto
i don't think advertising like that is even legal? Oh well it's sony.

910.8.2007 20:38

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by khmernize:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.


the commercial i saw said on dvd and high-definition
ditto
i don't think advertising like that is even legal? Oh well it's sony.
How so, it is High Definition.

1010.8.2007 20:59

I got the HD-DVD and it's amazing. The extras are super, especially the picture in picture bluescreen deal, where the whole movie (w/o effects) are in a PIP window, with commentary from the director. As a filmmaker, it gives really cool insight into their process. (Blueray doesn't have that feature)

And BTW, the ratio of Blueray players to HD-DVD player is MUCH more balanced. Sony likes to count the BD players in PS3s, but not the HD-DVD addons for the Xbox360. As far as stand alone players, BD is outnumbered slightly.

I like Sony, but in this battle over formats they have been very underhanded, both in reporting and under-the-table money to the film studios.

1110.8.2007 21:09

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by khmernize:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.


the commercial i saw said on dvd and high-definition
ditto
i don't think advertising like that is even legal? Oh well it's sony.
How so, it is High Definition.
if any thing i would think hd-dvd would have an advantage cause people
think hd when they hear High Definition. and what did sony do?

1210.8.2007 21:10

Has anyone with a PS3 bought a blu-ray movie? What about rent them?
Now that block buster has them, I do use my PS3 for a blu-ray player.

1310.8.2007 21:17

Originally posted by elfman12:
And BTW, the ratio of Blueray players to HD-DVD player is MUCH more balanced. Sony likes to count the BD players in PS3s, but not the HD-DVD addons for the Xbox360. As far as stand alone players, BD is outnumbered slightly.

I like Sony, but in this battle over formats they have been very underhanded, both in reporting and under-the-table money to the film studios.
You make no sense. Over 1 million PS3's in the US alone, 1 million more in Japan. In fact "A total of 4.48 million PS3's have been sold at retail thus far, with a mere 0.71 million of that number sold during Q1 2007. Regardless, Sony still projects 10.29 million sales during the following three quarters"

As for the HD-DVD addon...try like 300,000 and that is being generous. Certainly not even close to balancing the numbers. HD-DVD is selling poorly. Like it or not (I haven't made up my mind, I have a 360 but not a PS3 yet) we're all better off with ONE FORMAT and it might as well happen sooner than later. Everyone should pick Blu-Ray and this war would be over tomorrow. Root for HD-DVD and the fight will last 3 more years, in which case we all lose.

1410.8.2007 21:34

Blockbuster has already backed out of the HD-DVD format. I think Sony is stone dead set to win this format war whatever it takes.

The fact that they now own many many movie licenses now is going to help them very much.

They lost with Beta and that stung this one is a must win for Sony.

1510.8.2007 21:50

Originally posted by m3_chris:
Has anyone with a PS3 bought a blu-ray movie? What about rent them?
Now that block buster has them, I do use my PS3 for a blu-ray player.

i have 5 or six including 300

1610.8.2007 21:58

I dont see why anyone is surprised when a niche is split in half things like this will happen every other time....

1710.8.2007 23:30

I have a PS3 & an Xbox360 (but I DO NOT HAVE the HD-DVD add on). I own 3 Blu-ray movies and 1 HD DVD movie. I only bought one blu-ray (300), the others were gifts (B-Day's,Xmas, etc..) My TV is only 720p so I really can't see what either item has over the other, in regards to video quality. I do, however, like the fact that I can watch an HD-DVD anywhere in my house 'cause it has regular DVD format on the reverse side. The Blu-ray DVD's that I own can only be watched where my PS3 is.

I'm willing to bet that the only reason that Blu-Ray seems to be outselling HD DVD is 'cause everyone that buys Blu-ray, owns a PS3, otherwise they'd either be tied or HD DVD would be winning.

Sad thing is, they both just recently, out numbered VHS (hahaha!) I don't even know of a place that STILL RENTS vhs.

1811.8.2007 4:57

In Canada at Futureshop and Best Buy the BluBallz version of 300 is $29.99 and the HDDVD is $34.99.

I smell a kick back giving rat named SONY...

1911.8.2007 5:17

Originally posted by unolord:
In Canada at Futureshop and Best Buy the BluBallz version of 300 is $29.99 and the HDDVD is $34.99.

I smell a kick back giving rat named SONY...
This takes the prize for the "conspiracy theory of the week."

Recent releases on HD DVD and BluRay in Best Buy etc. are usually $29.99. No conspiracies and no kickbacks are involved here. This is the usual price.

The reason why the 300 release on HD DVD is $34.99 is because its a COMBO disc - HD DVD on one side and regular DVD on the other. Recent releases in Combo format are usually priced at $34.99 or more in most retailers. If you have to blame anyone blame Warner for releasing 300 as a Combo.

FWIW I bought the HD DVD COMBO version from amazon for $27.95. (The BluRay version was $23.95 - practically the same price as the 2-disc widescreen special edition regular DVD.)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 6:03

2011.8.2007 5:49
hughjars
Inactive

3.7 million PS3s v under 400,000 HD DVD players.

.....and they are still only able to sell at a ratio of approx 60:40/65:35 (depending on who you read)?

Interesting that Warner are adament that by being 'neutral' they are making good money - but then apparantly they are all making money on high def right now (not surprisingly given the prices) so there is little incentive for change atm.

They'll all be neutral eventually.....but Blu-ray's total reliance on a game console really is a huge flaw in their game-plan, IMO. ;)

........and anyone not buying on-line and getting a best price is just nuts in the current environment.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 5:50

2111.8.2007 6:18
Gehnma
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by elfman12:
And BTW, the ratio of Blueray players to HD-DVD player is MUCH more balanced. Sony likes to count the BD players in PS3s, but not the HD-DVD addons for the Xbox360. As far as stand alone players, BD is outnumbered slightly.

I like Sony, but in this battle over formats they have been very underhanded, both in reporting and under-the-table money to the film studios.
You make no sense. Over 1 million PS3's in the US alone, 1 million more in Japan. In fact "A total of 4.48 million PS3's have been sold at retail thus far, with a mere 0.71 million of that number sold during Q1 2007. Regardless, Sony still projects 10.29 million sales during the following three quarters"

As for the HD-DVD addon...try like 300,000 and that is being generous. Certainly not even close to balancing the numbers. HD-DVD is selling poorly. Like it or not (I haven't made up my mind, I have a 360 but not a PS3 yet) we're all better off with ONE FORMAT and it might as well happen sooner than later. Everyone should pick Blu-Ray and this war would be over tomorrow. Root for HD-DVD and the fight will last 3 more years, in which case we all lose.
Exactly, agreed

2211.8.2007 6:22

kishan73>

Believe it or not, my little small town still rents VHS. They are so for behind technology, the ratio of DVD to VHS is still about 50/50. Plus, every DVD they have is FULL SCREEN not WIDE SCREEN. I had to quit doing business with them. I have a large amount of dollars invested in my entertainment system, I am not renting anything that is NOT wide screen.

now back on topic, I still haven't bought either format. I am waiting to see which one wins over the other. I learned from my past mistakes...I own a laserdisc player if that gives you a clue of what I mean..lol

2311.8.2007 7:57

I think this has to do more with price of the product than anything else. The HDDVD version is a combo (standard, HD) disk and the BluRay is only HD. The HD disk is about $7 higher than the BluRay. If prices were the same, so would the sales, IMO.

2411.8.2007 8:07
armorthis
Inactive

Originally posted by khmernize:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.
The commercial I saw advertised both.

2511.8.2007 8:19

You guys that want sony to win Good luck to you. everybody knows sony wants control over what goes on comes off there media im even more suprised that Sonys fan base hasnt dropped with the mentune
of BD+. if you dont know what BD+ can do heres some kind of idea.

BD+ is effectively a small virtual machine embedded in authorized players. It allows content providers to include executable programs on Blu-ray discs. Such programs can

1.examine the host environment, to see if the player has been tampered with. Every licensed playback device manufacturer must provide the BD+ licensing authority with memory footprints that identify their devices.

2.verify that the player's keys have not been changed


3.execute native code, possibly to patch an otherwise insecure system.


4.transform the audio and video output. Parts of the content will not be viewable without letting the BD+-program unscramble it.



heres another threat that im worred about its called BD-ROM Mark

heres why it a threat:

The BD-ROM Mark is a small amount of cryptographical data that is stored physically differently from normal Blu-ray data. Bit-by-bit copies that do not replicate the BD-ROM Mark are impossible to decode. A specially licensed piece of hardware is required to insert the ROM-mark into the media during replication. Through licensing of the special hardware element, the BDA believes that it can eliminate the possibility of mass producing BD-ROMs without authorization.

Also this info belongs to wikipedia.org

2611.8.2007 9:02
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by rikku99:
Everyone should pick Blu-Ray and this war would be over tomorrow. Root for HD-DVD and the fight will last 3 more years, in which case we all lose.
- LMAO.

How the hell does anyone "lose" by avoiding the anti-consumer DRM, the unfinished spec and the exorbitant prices of Blu-ray?

How the hell can anyone seriously suggest that a movie format expressly intended to shift control away from the consumer & back towards 'the industry' is a 'loss' for 'us' the consumer?

Anyone who seriously imagines a future without HD DVD has got to be day-dreaming, it's not going away anywhere.......even the management of Matsushita - next biggest Blu-ray backers after Sony - talk of HD DVD in their marketing projections out to 2010 - not forgetting the rise of the dual format player which is set to grow/

Without HD DVD making an excellent fight of this we would still be getting served up sub-standard single layer 25gb MPEG2 Blu-ray movies.

In fact so much for the vaunted 50gb DL Blu-ray disc, those single layer 25gb discs with MPEG2 is still pretty common -

Quote:
Total 25gb discs released so far: 172 (out of around 279 titles released to date)

147 - MPEG-2
69 - AVC
61 - VC-1
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

.....and the fact remains that HD DVD has the greater anmount of available content and if US customers are prepared to buy outside of the USA only around 100 movies of the content now available on Blu-ray are actually 'exclusive'.

2711.8.2007 9:14

Quote:
I also believe that the commercial was deceiving. It would say 300 movie is out and get it on blu-ray and doesn't say hd-dvd. Thats how I saw it.
Well, from what I remember hearing (on separate commercials) they said "DVD and High Definition" on one commerical and "DVD and Blu-Ray" on another. They had a picture of both formats but said "High Definition", which in my opinion is fair, or "DVD and Blu-Ray" which is not fair. It should say "DVD, Blu-Ray and HD DVD" in that order (or HD DVD, Blu-Ray and DVD) simply because saying HD DVD and DVD one after the other could cause confusion.

On the players comment, sure a PS3 could be used to play Blu-Ray disks however they should not include it in "Hardware" sales for Blu-Ray players simply because it isn't designed to just play Blu-Ray movies, its designed to play PS3 games.

Yes, the HD DVD add-on hasn't sold in huge numbers but the 360 doesn't have any games out on HD DVDs. Therefore the only reason to get an HD DVD player is to watch movies, not play games.

Just wondering, how many Blu-Ray players have been sold if you remove 50-75% of the PS3's sold? I am not sure how many people actually use their PS3 on a regular basis to watch Blu-Ray movies but the 50-75% of players was just a guess.

Peace

2811.8.2007 9:28
BIGnewb
Inactive

its sad that the extra features were only on hd-dvd.its even more sad that the extra features they paid for isnt giving them any profit right now.we cant base which format is better based on a movie selling but all i can say is: "That is yet again another victory for blu-ray" :D

2911.8.2007 9:28
BIGnewb
Inactive

double post srry

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 9:30

3011.8.2007 10:17

Originally posted by hughjars:
- LMAO.

How the hell does anyone "lose" by avoiding the anti-consumer DRM, the unfinished spec and the exorbitant prices of Blu-ray?

How the hell can anyone seriously suggest that a movie format expressly intended to shift control away from the consumer & back towards 'the industry' is a 'loss' for 'us' the consumer?
Because not everyone has piracy in mind when it comes to either hi-def format.If you are using your movies the way studios intend for you too then why should this be a issue for you or anyone.

3111.8.2007 10:27
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Pop_Smith :
Just wondering, how many Blu-Ray players have been sold if you remove 50-75% of the PS3's sold? I am not sure how many people actually use their PS3 on a regular basis to watch Blu-Ray movies but the 50-75% of players was just a guess.

Peace
- Without PS3 Blu-ray died long ago.

PS3 gave the format a boost, sure but it's also consigned it to being little more than yet another Sony proprietary format.
The PS3 and the Sony S300 are the biggest value BD players but neither are 'profile 1.1 compliant - tho they are keeping this quiet for all those PS3 owners - and they have effectively killed the BD stand-alone market for everyone else.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
its sad that the extra features were only on hd-dvd.its even more sad that the extra features they paid for isnt giving them any profit right now.
- Says who?

Warner are pretty open about how they are making good money being format neutral.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
we cant base which format is better based on a movie selling but all i can say is: "That is yet again another victory for blu-ray"
- We can say that by only managing a 60:40 or 65:35 sales 'advantage' those 3.7 million PS3s are not doing a great job at shifting Blu-ray movie discs.

(and btw if the resident Sony/PS3/BD fanclub want to claim they've really sold 6+ million PS3s? Well, go ahead.....it just makes my point even more so)

Considering there are less than 400,000 HD DVD players out there their sales performance is rather pathetic actually.

I happen to know for a fact that this is, for now privately, causing serious disquiet in the BD ranks.

This is the very definition of a pyrrhic victory, if it's actually any kind of 'victory' at all IMO.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 10:31

3211.8.2007 10:41
BIGnewb
Inactive

oh come on man.the post just said what it said.and in that post i see that blu-ray came out on top.im not asking you to like this article but accept the fact.im not friggin boosting about it.all i said was that good job blu-ray pfff wow how can you say blu-ray died when they were offering the 5 free movies with a player.i know many ppl who have purchased a blu-ray player.they're not gamers so they dont need a ps3 but ill get a ps3 for blu-ray and gaming.you cant be wrong when you say an opinion ;) get it straight.

3311.8.2007 12:18

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
oh come on man.the post just said what it said.and in that post i see that blu-ray came out on top.im not asking you to like this article but accept the fact.im not friggin boosting about it.all i said was that good job blu-ray pfff wow how can you say blu-ray died when they were offering the 5 free movies with a player.i know many ppl who have purchased a blu-ray player.they're not gamers so they dont need a ps3 but ill get a ps3 for blu-ray and gaming.you cant be wrong when you say an opinion ;) get it straight.
I understand where your coming from Bignewwb some on this board have a problem with opinions & facts.But you do have some on this board that are totally delusional no matter how people trying to say that a PS3 or 360 add-on not a players not going to stop Hi-Def sells.If its plays Blu-Ray or HD-DVD format them its a player why is this so hard to figure out.

3411.8.2007 12:20
BIGnewb
Inactive

ok just throwing this out there.is it possible for a company to release an hd-dvd and blu-ray player.like in one system but 2 seperate drives?

3511.8.2007 12:32

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
ok just throwing this out there.is it possible for a company to release an hd-dvd and blu-ray player.like in one system but 2 seperate drives?
Haha! They already have 'em except they don't have 2 seperate drive. It has one drive that plays both formats. I believe there are two or three manufactoring companies that produce 'em.

3611.8.2007 12:38
BIGnewb
Inactive

nice/thats pretty sick

3711.8.2007 12:43

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
nice/thats pretty sick
LG, Samsung, and Toshiba (I think?)

Here's a couple of links I found. Enjoy!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertai...ayer-225924.php

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertai...ayer-186735.php

[img]http://www.slide.com/s/YmMdLyvG7D9Wqpwej7OxnplPB-TBJ3PH?referrer=hlnk">[/img]
3811.8.2007 12:49

Quote:
Originally posted by BIGnewb:
ok just throwing this out there.is it possible for a company to release an hd-dvd and blu-ray player.like in one system but 2 seperate drives?
Haha! They already have 'em except they don't have 2 seperate drive. It has one drive that plays both formats. I believe there are two or three manufactoring companies that produce 'em.
The prices on these combo standalone are insane like over 1000 bucks.

3911.8.2007 13:11

the situation sucks all around because if we let the media giant sony win, then all the hardware that plays bd's will skyrocket due to the fact that companies such as pioneer or microsoft or whoever else that isnt sony or sleeping with sony will have to pay royalties out the wazoo and that in the end will hurt us the consumer. plus you have to think that its harder to copy bd's than it is hd-dvds... haha! im not saying it cant be done but it isnt as easy as backing up a hd-dvd.

ps. sorry for that super long run on sentence up there haha!

4011.8.2007 13:55

Originally posted by cfultz:
the situation sucks all around because if we let the media giant sony win, then all the hardware that plays bd's will skyrocket due to the fact that companies such as pioneer or microsoft or whoever else that isnt sony or sleeping with sony will have to pay royalties out the wazoo and that in the end will hurt us the consumer. plus you have to think that its harder to copy bd's than it is hd-dvds... haha! im not saying it cant be done but it isnt as easy as backing up a hd-dvd.

ps. sorry for that super long run on sentence up there haha!
Right now i don't think consumers know how good they have it.We have two major corps battling out for consumer dollars.It took DVD 3 years before consumers seen any kind of major price drop.Right now i know it might suck that one format might have a movie that the other don't but at lease the Hardware price is dropping like crazy.

4111.8.2007 15:36

ok NexGen76. the price for hardware may be dropping but think about how long 360's have been out. and not to mention very few people bought the ps3 because of the price back then. the price drops on the 360 are just basic time versus purchased machines which means the more time that passes the more consumers buy which in turn means the less microsoft can charge for it. the price drop for the ps3, on the other hand is the exact opposite, no one was purchasing the ps3 at that price so they had to drop the prices so more consumers would purchase it. wouldnt it be GREAT if sony and microsoft could come to some kind of agreement, sony provide microsoft with bd's for games and microsoft could provide sony with high def movies! hahaha! only in a perfect world eh?

4211.8.2007 16:44
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Nextgen76:
But you do have some on this board that are totally delusional no matter how people trying to say that a PS3 or 360 add-on not a players not going to stop Hi-Def sells.
- Weird, this is a discussion of the release of '300' and the relative merits of each format relating to that release and other matters pertaining to that.
But you want to use the thread to complain that when people discuss stand-alone devices they don't include game consoles or game console add-ons!?

Talk about trying to take the debate off topic.

Anyhoo, if I may offer a word of advice?
If you're going to say something to someone try doing it directly and not some lame side comment.

If that was aimed at me
(and your writing/grammar is regularly so bad that your meaning is often open to question)
then I'm sorry to have to tell you that that 3.7 million BD player figure includes the PS3s sold to date
(or if you like call it 6 million shipped/sold, I could care less as it just makes my point even more so).

Similarly the 400,000 HD DVD players is a total that includes the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on numbers.

So, like I said 60:40 or 60:35 on the back of 3.7 (or 6 if you prefer) million verses just under 400,000 thousand.
I don't call that an impressive BD performance.

......and 'managed copy' (and unlike HD DVD where it is mandatory it is only optional but nevertheless supposedly a feature of Blu-ray) is not 'piracy'.

Neither will the complaints relating to BD+ and the impact it will have on things like compatibility and user(non)-friendliness be complaints just from 'pirates'.

You can pretend only 'pirates' should be bothered by BD+ all you like but you're way out in a tiny minority if you think you're kidding anyone with that ludicrous company propaganda.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
how can you say blu-ray died when they were offering the 5 free movies with a player.
- Well let's try and do each other the courtesy of sticking to what was actually said, huh?
I actually said "Without PS3 Blu-ray died long ago".
Which is a fact.

Blu-ray is entirely reliant on the PS3 game console and without it would have been dead and buried long ago.
Now that it has effectively killed off the BD stand-alone market they are stuck relying on it and seeing almost no other stand-alones selling.
Remove PS3 from the equation and BD is dead.
Keep PS3 in the equation and BD simply remains a proprietary format almost wholly reliant on the PS3.

But the fact remains that whilst several million PS3s are a viable market (just as PSP & UMD remains so despite UMD being a dead proprietary format too) a game console is never going to take the wider (and much bigger) global a/v market.

BD putting all their eggs in the PS3 basket has given them a short-term boost, of course it has.
But the 60:35/60:40 numbers illustrate even that is disappointing and could never be seriously described as particularly huge.

......and btw the latest stats from DVD Empire shows 55:45 and shrinking is the latest trend - but 'going PS3' has in reality done nothing helpful for the longer term BD strategy.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
oh come on man.the post just said what it said.and in that post i see that blu-ray came out on top.im not asking you to like this article but accept the fact
- Are you kidding me, "like it"?!
I love it, it's proving how weak PS3 is in this so-called war.

.....and let's stick to the point, I was commenting on what you said, which was this -

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
its even more sad that the extra features they paid for isnt giving them any profit right now
- Which is just wrong (and if you have proof to the contrary then please provide it, I'm all ears).

Warner are in fact quite open about how they are making money by being format neutral right now.

Speaking of making money in this.....

You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product.

No wonder Samsung & LG abandoned their 'BD exclusive' hardware manufacturing stance.
......and they will not be alone either.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 17:08

4311.8.2007 17:41

Originally posted by hughjars:

You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product.
Do you have a link on this story? My Google searches turn up zip.

MPEG LA is handling the issue of patent royalties for both HD DVD and BluRay. The last press release from MPEG LA regarding BluRay patent royalties was this:

http://www.mpegla.com/news/n_07-02-21_pr.pdf

Quote:
Significant Progress Made Toward Creation of Joint Blu-ray Disc™ Patent License Fourth Meeting of Patent Holders Held

Chevy Chase, Maryland USA – 21 February 2007 –

MPEG LA announced today that the fourth meeting of essential Blu-ray DiscTM patent owners, currently consisting of 18 companies, was held in New York on February 6-7 for the purpose of creating a joint license providing fair, reasonable, non-discriminatoryaccess to essential patents, as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses. Significant progress has been made in identifying licensing terms for Blu-ray DiscTM products such as players, recorders, drives, software, recordable discs and prerecorded discs. Participating companies include CyberLink Corporation; Dell Inc.; Hewlett-Packard Company; Hitachi Ltd.; Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.; LG Electronics Inc.; Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic); Mitsubishi Electric
Corporation; Pioneer Corporation; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; Sonic Solutions; Sony Corporation; TDK Corporation; Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.; and
Warner Home Video Inc.

“The participation of this group of diverse companies in the development of a joint license bodes well for offering an efficient way to address intellectual property licensing needs for advanced optical devices, discs and related implementations,” said MPEG LA CEO Larry Horn. “The group especially appreciates the input and views received from interested parties, including potential licensees, in all related industry sectors. MPEG LA welcomes the opportunity to facilitate any and all efforts to assist users with their advanced optical disc technology choices in order to give consumers the benefit of innovative information
and entertainment applications.”

Additional patent holder meetings are planned, and work on the joint license will continue. Meanwhile, MPEG LA welcomes additional owners of essential patents to participate in the creation of a joint patent
license for the benefit of the marketplace. Any party that believes it has patents that are essential to the Blu-ray DiscTM standard and wishes to join the Blu-ray DiscTM Patent Portfolio License is invited to submit them for evaluation of their essentiality to the standard by MPEG LA’s patent evaluators. Further information, along with terms and procedures governing patent submissions, can be found at http://www.mpegla.com/pid/bluray/. While only issued patents that are essential to the Blu-ray DiscTM standard will be included in the license, in order to participate in the license development process, patent applications with claims that their owners believe are essential to the Blu-ray DiscTM standard and likely to
issue in a patent also may be submitted for an evaluation of essentiality.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 17:55

4411.8.2007 19:13

Quote:
Originally posted by Nextgen76:
But you do have some on this board that are totally delusional no matter how people trying to say that a PS3 or 360 add-on not a players not going to stop Hi-Def sells.
- Weird, this is a discussion of the release of '300' and the relative merits of each format relating to that release and other matters pertaining to that.
But you want to use the thread to complain that when people discuss stand-alone devices they don't include game consoles or game console add-ons!?

Talk about trying to take the debate off topic.

Anyhoo, if I may offer a word of advice?
If you're going to say something to someone try doing it directly and not some lame side comment.

If that was aimed at me
(and your writing/grammar is regularly so bad that your meaning is often open to question)
then I'm sorry to have to tell you that that 3.7 million BD player figure includes the PS3s sold to date
(or if you like call it 6 million shipped/sold, I could care less as it just makes my point even more so).

Similarly the 400,000 HD DVD players is a total that includes the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on numbers.

So, like I said 60:40 or 60:35 on the back of 3.7 (or 6 if you prefer) million verses just under 400,000 thousand.
I don't call that an impressive BD performance.

......and 'managed copy' (and unlike HD DVD where it is mandatory it is only optional but nevertheless supposedly a feature of Blu-ray) is not 'piracy'.

Neither will the complaints relating to BD+ and the impact it will have on things like compatibility and user(non)-friendliness be complaints just from 'pirates'.

You can pretend only 'pirates' should be bothered by BD+ all you like but you're way out in a tiny minority if you think you're kidding anyone with that ludicrous company propaganda.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
how can you say blu-ray died when they were offering the 5 free movies with a player.
- Well let's try and do each other the courtesy of sticking to what was actually said, huh?
I actually said "Without PS3 Blu-ray died long ago".
Which is a fact.

Blu-ray is entirely reliant on the PS3 game console and without it would have been dead and buried long ago.
Now that it has effectively killed off the BD stand-alone market they are stuck relying on it and seeing almost no other stand-alones selling.
Remove PS3 from the equation and BD is dead.
Keep PS3 in the equation and BD simply remains a proprietary format almost wholly reliant on the PS3.

But the fact remains that whilst several million PS3s are a viable market (just as PSP & UMD remains so despite UMD being a dead proprietary format too) a game console is never going to take the wider (and much bigger) global a/v market.

BD putting all their eggs in the PS3 basket has given them a short-term boost, of course it has.
But the 60:35/60:40 numbers illustrate even that is disappointing and could never be seriously described as particularly huge.

......and btw the latest stats from DVD Empire shows 55:45 and shrinking is the latest trend - but 'going PS3' has in reality done nothing helpful for the longer term BD strategy.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
oh come on man.the post just said what it said.and in that post i see that blu-ray came out on top.im not asking you to like this article but accept the fact
- Are you kidding me, "like it"?!
I love it, it's proving how weak PS3 is in this so-called war.

.....and let's stick to the point, I was commenting on what you said, which was this -

Originally posted by BIGnewb:
its even more sad that the extra features they paid for isnt giving them any profit right now
- Which is just wrong (and if you have proof to the contrary then please provide it, I'm all ears).

Warner are in fact quite open about how they are making money by being format neutral right now.

Speaking of making money in this.....

You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product.

No wonder Samsung & LG abandoned their 'BD exclusive' hardware manufacturing stance.
......and they will not be alone either.
All your post should be counted as post padding & nothing more.How many times are you going to ruin great treads with worthless PR fud you bring to this board sounding like a broken record repeating the same useless info over & over.True Fanboyism at its best.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Aug 2007 @ 21:46

4511.8.2007 20:56

I was pissed that the hd-dvd only came out only in a combo version. I paid the $30.00 (hastings had a sale the first week) because I'm inpatient. But I have to admit it was one of the best quality hd-dvd pictures I've seen so far. Very good job on the transfer.

4612.8.2007 4:39
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Nextgen76:
All your post should be counted as post padding & nothing more.How many times are you going to ruin great treads with worthless PR fud you bring to this board sounding like a broken record repeating the same useless info over & over.True Fanboyism at its best.
- Truly you are utterly devoid of any sense of hypocrisy, irony or shame.

4712.8.2007 4:43
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by error5:
Do you have a link on this story? My Google searches turn up zip.
- Sadly not.....but I'd lay major amounts of money on tales such as this being publicly known in the next couple of years as his develops badly for BD and the rest of the BDA. :P

.....and you're not trying to seriously dispute that Sony is the major patent and royalty holder of BD now are you?

Or that PS3 has killed the BD stand-alone market?

.....and that what few crumbs that are left from that are being hoovered up by the (non 'profile 1.1 compliant) S300?

4812.8.2007 4:58

Originally posted by hughjars:

- Sadly not.....but I'd lay major amounts of money on tales such as this being publicly known in the next couple of years as his develops badly for BD and the rest of the BDA. :P
Unfortunately, without the actual quote from Matsushita I would have to agree with NexGen76 that your statement is FUD and pure speculation on your part. As you said in your post - these are "tales." I would rather trust actual press releases from MPEG LA which has the authority to oversee patent royalty issues for both BluRay and HD DVD. I was hoping you wouldn't stoop this low since some of your statements do make sense.

4912.8.2007 5:20
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by error5:
Unfortunately, without the actual quote from Matsushita I would have to agree with NexGen76 that your statement is FUD and pure speculation on your part.
- The difference would be that I'm happy to say that I don't have a link and I never did say otherwise.
I would also say that when I give an opinion or comment I make it obvious that is what I'm doing.

I'm sure someone has seen the Matsushita CEO story somewhere, it was no secret, the CEO of Matsushita said Blu-ray R&D had cost them alone "billions in $ US" (which really ought not to be a surprise to anyone who has been following this tale).

BTW in contrast HD DVD has, relatively speaking, cost almost nothing to develop.

.....and just what exactly is it in this you're questioning?

Are you saying Blu-ray has not cost Matsushita "billions $ US" in R&D?

The rest of what I said, re the happiness or otherwise of the rest of the BDA, as they have watched Sony turn BD into a PS3 proprietary format is sheer common-sense that hardly requires a link as anyone can plainly see just how things have worked out
(and I never did claim that was something public, yet).

The facts stand.
Sony is the major patent holder and is the primary developer of BD.
Sony did engage in risk/cost-sharing to develop BD with a host of other CE companies.
Sony has effectively turned BD into a PS3 proprietary format and with the PS3 (and, to a lesser extent, with the S300) killed the stand-alone market for the rest (hence the dearth of BD stand-alones and their poor sales & the start of those companies going dual format).

We'll see how that one works out in Oct as it become plain that neither the PS3 nor S300 are 'profile 1.1' complaint
(is another new version of the PS3 coming?
Will this be the 120gb variant the Euro execs have hinted at - that's hardly "FUD" either, the story was carried here?)
Is this all just "FUD" too or is it an honest recognition of the fact that the PS3 as it now is can't meet 'profile 1.1' as the PS3 doesn't have the secondary video decoder it needs to have?

Nice the way they sell obsolete kit and have kept quiet about it tho, eh?

I'm sorry you prefer to start quibbling over points I have made pretty clear (I have never claimed a link for something I don't have a link for and if I have speculated I have clearly said and indicated what was my own opinion/view).

I'm also sorry to see you using those ludicrous terms like "FUD" which IMO really ought to be left at the Sony/PS3/BD fanzine sites amongst the risible fanclub who love such terms.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Aug 2007 @ 5:49

5012.8.2007 5:48

Sorry hughjars but your statement:

"You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product."

comes out as a statement of FACT and not opinion.

Without the actual quote from Matsushita it is as reliable as:

"Ken Graffeo of Universal pictures is getting so much presure from his parent company G.E. that we can expect an announcement of format neutrality soon."

Theirein lies the problem. Sometimes our loyalties can blind us so much that we choose to believe things that may not be true. We may have a tendency to put a spin on things that would otherwise mean something different.

Quote:
I'm also sorry to see you using those ludicrous terms like "FUD" which IMO really ought to be left at the Sony/PS3/BD fanzine sites amongst the risible fanclub who love such terms.

The thing is you don't reply to FUD with more FUD...

and you don't stoop down to the level of your opponent becuse he's better at it than you and he's got more experience.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Aug 2007 @ 5:56

5112.8.2007 6:01
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by error5:
Sorry hughjars but your statement:

"You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product."

comes out as a statement of FACT and not opinion.
- I disagree.
I think it is clearly a view and my surmising on the facts available.

I think that in the circumstances (given the billions BD R&D has cost them and the pitifully small numbers of BD stand-alones sold) it makes perfect sense.

The "you may imagine" part is hardly a statement of fact but an invitation to consider the situation in the light of the facts we have/know.

Originally posted by error5:
Without the actual quote from Matsushita it is as reliable as:

"Ken Graffeo of Universal pictures is getting so much presure from his parent company G.E. that we can expect an announcement of format neutrality soon."
- Yeah but that (particularly when you do see the full quote) is sheer wishful thinking & pure opinion which is utterly at odds with all the surrounding facts.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to actually and seriously expect an "announcement of neutrality soon" as we keep on having repeated statements from the company to the contrary.

I don't see what the problem is with informed speculation so long as it is based upon the known facts, everyone does that.
Speculation which is totally at odds with the known facts (as this instance of the tired old 'Universal to format neutral at any second......' plainly is) is where the problem lies.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Aug 2007 @ 11:48

5212.8.2007 6:26
dblbogey7
Inactive

Originally posted by error5:
The thing is you don't reply to FUD with more FUD...
I too have been looking for evidence of this supposed "bad blood" between Sony and Matsushita/Panasonic. I haven't been able to find any evidence of this, however.

It is likely that Matsushita put a good amount of money into BluRay R&D but to suddenly project this as a source of "bad blood" between them and Sony is IMO highly speculative and a bit of a stretch. Panasonic's involvement in BluRay is not just in the standalone market. They are entrenching themselves as a primarly player in the PC drive/burner market with their line of BluRay burners and SL/DL BD-R/RE discs. I think this is where they will recoup most of their initial outlay as the burner market expands and as prices come down.

I would also take into consideration the role of MPEG LA as error5 pionted out. I would imagine that any issues regarding the BD patent will be ironed out in a gentlemanly fashion and all parties involved will get their fair share of the spoils.

In the end hughjars' statement can be considered as pure speculation at this point.

5312.8.2007 7:33
hughjars
Inactive

You're right about Panasonic's involvement with BD drives of course dblbogey7 but even there (excepting - perhaps - the DVD burner & BD reader combo drive) the sky-high prices of the currently available BD drives would indicate they aren't likely to be selling huge quantities to recoup much of their investment.

BTW did you know that Panasonic UK have decided not to bother introducing their new gen BD stand-alone, such is the appalling current state of the BD stand-alone market here?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Aug 2007 @ 7:33

5412.8.2007 7:56

Thanks for agreeing with my viewpoint dblbogey7.

Sometimes we just have to point out that outlandish statements and unsubstantiated claims are not just the monopoly of the BDA and its fans. The way things are right now and becuase of the very heated rivalry between the two, we can safely say that:

Speculation = FUD

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Aug 2007 @ 7:58

5512.8.2007 9:22
24Lover
Inactive

HughJars,

Dude just quit while you can your getting smashed left & Right its not funny anymore.

5612.8.2007 10:04
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by 24Lover:
HughJars,

Dude just quit while you can your getting smashed left & Right its not funny anymore.
- Awwwww, you created an account just to 'add' that!?

Tragic.

5712.8.2007 19:51

If this doesnt get back on topic, and fast, im disabling comments, so lay off the side comments or use the PM system.

24lover, first and only warning, post something worth posting or do not post in news comments again.

5812.8.2007 20:36

This movie is awesome in hd. The extras were in hd for the most part. All the extra footage and the like was in 1080p. The game is like a themopli version of risk. It is well worth the purchase.

5917.8.2007 18:18

The battle continues.

6021.8.2007 1:29

So... back on topic...

which version of 300 is superior? HD or BR? If the details of that devolve to the picture being the same, but HD has additional supplemental features on top of the same ones BR has, then the victor is HD. I intend to buy it this weekend, would like to know which one is better.

6121.8.2007 8:40

i don't think you should base your purchase off of one movie. I chose hd dvd because I like universal films and at the time paramount which has since come back to the light.

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