I love my Zune, I think they are way better than any Ipods, but the only thing they have to do is to get more ads so people will notice them.

I am probably gonna get a new one, next month, cause my 1st Gen is still in good condition.

I agree, I think the biggest thing was that the iPod, had decent press coverage and marketshare before the Zune came out. Getting a five year head start would certainly help in getting a big share of the market.

For this and a few more reasons it took off while the Zune did not. I have thought about getting myself a 16GB Flash Zune. I think I may do so within the next six months or so depending on how the market and personal finances go.

EDITED by Pop_Smith: OK, I stand corrected. :P

There market is limited to the USA.

I live in the UK, i'd love if they sold them here, I would definatly buy one, but they don't, I don't understand why they don't sell them else where in the world

How about opening up the Zune with a browser. Be great to pick up websites like Hulu and Youtube on the zune.

Originally posted by Pop_Smith:

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I agree, I think the biggest thing was that the iPod, which actually launched after the Zune, got more press coverage by Apple than the Zune.

---

HUH? Since when did the Zune launch before the ipod? Proof or ban.

Ipod had a couple years head start plus the ability be used on both Windows and MAC. There are some people who won't use Windows and vice versa. If you can target BOTH markets, you win.

Zune came out much later than iPod.
First Zune come out in November 2006, whereas the first iPod hit the stores in October 2001 (however first iPod that worked with Windows was not released till 2002)


Links....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Classic#First_generation

Furthermore, I've never seen a Zune, partly because I don't think they have them here on sale in Oz either.

Originally posted by SSSJDanny:

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I love my Zune, I think they are way better than any Ipods, but the only thing they have to do is to get more ads so people will notice them.

I am probably gonna get a new one, next month, cause my 1st Gen is still in good condition.

---

I completely agree, I got an 80GB in July, and aside from having to change around a few tags, this thing beats the crap out of the iPod.

It's already lasted longer than the last iPod I had, the headhone jack burned out on that thing after only four months of use...

Originally posted by djgizmo:

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HUH? Since when did the Zune launch before the ipod? Proof or ban.

---

Relax man, so I had my information mixed up for some crazy reason. I did edit my original post to reflect the correct information.

I don't see a compelling reason to buy a Zune over an Ipod. They are also roughly the same price. The average consumer would probably go with brand recognition, which is all Ipod. Microsoft should probably come up with something a bit more imaginative than wireless novelties to cure my apathy towards this device.

Originally posted by tgok:

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I don't see a compelling reason to buy a Zune over an Ipod. They are also roughly the same price. The average consumer would probably go with brand recognition, which is all Ipod. Microsoft should probably come up with something a bit more imaginative than wireless novelties to cure my apathy towards this device.

---

Bigger screen, better interface, built in video output, wireless sync, built in FM tuner, music subscription service, longer first-party hardware support.

My friend still has his 30gig from the launch, and he got the most recent firmware update in November... My 5th gen iPod hasn't had an update in 2 years, and I had to buy replacements on two occasions because the headphone jack is crap.

On top of that, I don't have to put up with the uppity d**chebags at the "Genius Bar" anymore.

That's because Microsoft no longer devotes any advertising or marketing dollars to the Zune, and they haven't done so for a very long time. Why do you think that is? Do you think the Zune is not going to be one among of their bigger cuts? If the Zune were as magnificent as you say, why is it doing so poorly, being that it's the spawn of a multi-billion-dollar corporation with virtually unlimited resources?

What Microsoft needs to do is pronounce the Zune dead long after it was removed from life support. And this, despite their numerous Zune apologists. Microsoft also needs to get rid of cry-baby customers who claim that their products are wonderful despite the fact that reality reliable proves them to be wrong: "I love Vista! It's the best OS I've ever used on any planet!" Even the High Pries of your own church, Steve Ballmer, pronounced it a failure. Yet you, and people like you, continue to genuflect at the altar of Vista. Make puke one more time.

You don't deserve sympathy. You don't deserve attention. And you've most certainly forfeited credibility.

Zuneophiles need to give it up -- and there are so many of them on the blogosphere, many more than people who actually own the ill-conceived device. How does that happen? More people write glowing love letters about their Zunes than people who actually own them.

It's difficult to let go of someone important in our lives once they?ve died. But the fact is, the sooner you begin the grieving process, the better off you?ll be in the long run.

@ Pop Smith: And so why, exactly, did it take Microsoft FIVE YEARS to even begin to think about catching up with the iPod? I mean, it's not like the iPod didn't catch on quickly. It did. And it caught on quickly during the second-worst recession in my lifetime -- October of 2001, right after the terrorist attacks on 9/11.

You people are disgusting for your stupidity. Shame on you.

@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

Here's the thing...Better to pull out sooner, than lose a whole lot more later. And I'm not just talking about revenues; I'm talking about reputation.

Compared to the iPhone and the iPod touch, the Zune sucks, and everyone knows it. I don't care how many testimonials I read from so-called Zune owners. The fact that the Zune owns aroud 3% of the market versus 70% market share for the iPod should be enough suggestive evidence to quiet the squawkers. But it isn't. So be it.

The Zune is so late to the game that Microsoft's own music download store is hobbled by DRM restrictions, something Apple has recently persuaded the record companies to drop. This is the same DRM that every Kool-Aid drinking, anti-Apple freak complained about.

So, my question to all you misguided Microsoft miscreants is this: How do you justify Microsoft's DRM-straddled music store?

Please. Don't even answer. I'm so tired of Microsoft apologists, continually posting love letters about failed products. "I love Vista! It's the best OS I've ever used!" Yeah. That worked out well. Even the CEO/Chief Priest of the Church at which you worship told you it was a failure, and you continued to kneel down in submission. You people should be living in the Middle East, where unfounded beliefs are taken as fact, and misguided behavior is taken as the norm.

Don't go away mad; don't even go away stupid. Just go away

Originally posted by MrXenu:

---

There market is limited to the USA.

I live in the UK, i'd love if they sold them here, I would definatly buy one, but they don't, I don't understand why they don't sell them else where in the world

---

You can get them Fom CEX

This makes me sad. I really like my Zune, and totally LOVE the Zune Pass (trust me, try a subscription service before forming an opinion about it).

But, Microsoft just seems to keep making dumb after dumber decisions, and I have never once seen a commercial for Zune (while being bombarded with Apple propoganda on a daily basis).

However, I keep ONE hope alive: When I look at how they turned the Xbox around (relative to the PlayStation); I keep my fingers crossed that they can still salvage the Zune.

I'm not an iPod fan, but the iPod Touch is amazing. As music software goes, iTunes rocks. Hands down the best music management software ever made. And now all the apps. I'm surprised MS has even sold a single Zune.

Look at resale values. iPods bitch-slap the Zune.

Maybe Microsoft should go home and devote its time to fixing the smoldering piece of garbage they call Vista. Oh wait, it's called Windows 7 now. Losers!!

Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

---

Wrong moron. I have thousands of songs on my 80 gig Zune and I don't download from Microsoft. Not a single song I have is DRM.

THE iPod KILLER. lol

Originally posted by SkateNYC:

---

That's because Microsoft no longer devotes any advertising or marketing dollars to the Zune, and they haven't done so for a very long time. Why do you think that is? Do you think the Zune is not going to be one among of their bigger cuts? If the Zune were as magnificent as you say, why is it doing so poorly, being that it's the spawn of a multi-billion-dollar corporation with virtually unlimited resources?

What Microsoft needs to do is pronounce the Zune dead long after it was removed from life support. And this, despite their numerous Zune apologists. Microsoft also needs to get rid of cry-baby customers who claim that their products are wonderful despite the fact that reality reliable proves them to be wrong: "I love Vista! It's the best OS I've ever used on any planet!" Even the High Pries of your own church, Steve Ballmer, pronounced it a failure. Yet you, and people like you, continue to genuflect at the altar of Vista. Make puke one more time.

You don't deserve sympathy. You don't deserve attention. And you've most certainly forfeited credibility.

Zuneophiles need to give it up -- and there are so many of them on the blogosphere, many more than people who actually own the ill-conceived device. How does that happen? More people write glowing love letters about their Zunes than people who actually own them.

It's difficult to let go of someone important in our lives once they?ve died. But the fact is, the sooner you begin the grieving process, the better off you?ll be in the long run.

---

Originally posted by SkateNYC:

---

Here's the thing...Better to pull out sooner, than lose a whole lot more later. And I'm not just talking about revenues; I'm talking about reputation.

Compared to the iPhone and the iPod touch, the Zune sucks, and everyone knows it. I don't care how many testimonials I read from so-called Zune owners. The fact that the Zune owns aroud 3% of the market versus 70% market share for the iPod should be enough suggestive evidence to quiet the squawkers. But it isn't. So be it.

The Zune is so late to the game that Microsoft's own music download store is hobbled by DRM restrictions, something Apple has recently persuaded the record companies to drop. This is the same DRM that every Kool-Aid drinking, anti-Apple freak complained about.

So, my question to all you misguided Microsoft miscreants is this: How do you justify Microsoft's DRM-straddled music store?

Please. Don't even answer. I'm so tired of Microsoft apologists, continually posting love letters about failed products. "I love Vista! It's the best OS I've ever used!" Yeah. That worked out well. Even the CEO/Chief Priest of the Church at which you worship told you it was a failure, and you continued to kneel down in submission. You people should be living in the Middle East, where unfounded beliefs are taken as fact, and misguided behavior is taken as the norm.

Don't go away mad; don't even go away stupid. Just go away

---

What the flying f*ck are you going on about?

I hate Vista, I have an XP/Ubuntu dualboot on my PC, I just like the Zune over the iPod... It's not some Microsoft cult, it's an honest opinion.

Did I ever say it was the freaking end-all-be-all of portable media players? No! I just said it was better than the iPod Classic.
I freely admit that the iPod Touch/iPhone are neat gadgets, they can do a lot of neat things. However, they do things I neither want or need, at the cost of a lot of storage space for my music and a higher price tag...
On top of that, I'm a bit of an audiophile, and I rip my CD's in lossless formats. 32GB isn't going to cut it.

Secondly, I'm liking the hypocrisy here. You're trying to make it sound like everyone who owns a Zune is a mindless Microsoft-worshipping zombie... And, yet, you are treating the Apple products as some form of holy object.
Not only have you given only one reason as to why the iPod is better than the Zune, but your point that iTunes is better than the Zune service is one that doesn't really have any place in a discussion about which device is better, as both devices can use iTunes. If iTunes is DRM-free, what would stop a Zune user from getting songs from it?

Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

---

At this point, I can guarantee that even you have no idea what you're yammering about. Also, questions end with question marks, not periods.

The Zune program also offers a DRM-free option for a lot of their catalog... And Apple started doing that after Microsoft did.
And I'm not saying it's better than iTunes, they have more music and all that, they're a lot more popular and they've been around longer. But, as I have said previously: The Zune can use music purchased from iTunes.
But, hey, let's pretend you knew anything about what you were talking about, I'll humor you. We'll pretend the Zune can't use iTunes music... They wouldn't have any music, right? iTunes is the only way to get music now. That would just kill the Zune, wouldn't it?
Oh, wait, there are other options, aren't there? Like say, physical media? CD's that you can rip at any quality you choose, and can't lose because of a problem with iTunes, or Zune, or a hard drive you have it stored on. Yeah, that sounds nice.

Your argument would have more validity if it were an actual argument against anything as opposed to senseless garbage.

They are too little to late. They have better hardware. They did have that one poison update that killed any Zune that played high res music with the poison patch. M$ are morons! At leat apple has a good reset so you can recover your device with a bad update.

Sansa will wipe out Apple and M$. They have superion hardware and don't play games trying to get you to buy more music.

@SkateNYC
I guess you didn't read the rules - you know the part about flaming and fanboyism. Here's a week to catch up on the reading.

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nintenut: Not disagreeing with you, I actually do think that the Zune is/was/can be better than an IPod. I should know, I own both a Zune 80gb and and IPod Classic 120gb. I would be the first to say neither in my opinion will ever be the hands down ultimate MP3 player but IMO, to each his own, both the Zune and IPod have their strengths and flaws. I love my Zune but I hate the fact that you need to use their horrible software which is very glitchy at best and also that there is no equalizer in the newer Zunes (this is probably one of the most stupidest thing Microsoft did when releasing the 80 gb and the later models). I mean I like to mess around with my preferred listening style and use an equalizer to my liking, I too am an audiophile. For this I give props to the IPod. At the time I bought the Zune, it was the better value since it was cheaper than say the IPod Touch and had more memory but my new Classic actually was cheaper than the 120gb Zune, at 219.00 US. Now in response to SkateNYC's comments, he does sound like a fanboy for IPod and that's fine if he/she wants to be opinionated but that's just it, that's his/her opinion and for him/her to try to influence his/her opinions on the rest of us is just a lost cause in stupidity since you and I and everyone else will always have their own opinion and I for one will not be influenced by a moronic claim that you are a Microsoft Zombie coming from someone who would pay 400 plus dollars for what is supposed to be an MP3 player, not a hapless attempt to a geeky music/video/game/photo player. If I wanted something like this I would of bought a PSP. Point being, you just can never satisfy anyone or pretend to even understand the logic over why you need to "defend" a product like a drone to a queen bee. Personally, even though I like my Zune, I actually use my IPod more since it does have the EQ which I can use. Although not the best, it is better than none. Hopefully Microsoft can better the Zune to bring their sales up, specifically add some stuff to it ie. EQ and drop some stuff out (WiFI?) and maybe even either update their Zune program or allow for it to be used on Windows Media Player to synch. Maybe then I would get a new Zune for that reason alone.

I'm happy with my white 5.5G 30GB iPod... Matches my white iMac, the nice one just before they came out with that nasty aluminum sh!t :)

I am open to anything with better sound quality though (no, not cds lol). I think my iPod sounds great, but I wouldn't know any better because that's all I've owned really... The battery is starting to go so sooner or later I'll be buying something better (if there is) or I'll just nab a battery off of DX :D


Anyone know of something better then my iPod? Are Zunes better? My music is 320kbps btw...

Originally posted by EnigmaCM:

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nintenut: Not disagreeing with you, I actually do think that the Zune is/was/can be better than an IPod. I should know, I own both a Zune 80gb and and IPod Classic 120gb. I would be the first to say neither in my opinion will ever be the hands down ultimate MP3 player but IMO, to each his own, both the Zune and IPod have their strengths and flaws. I love my Zune but I hate the fact that you need to use their horrible software which is very glitchy at best and also that there is no equalizer in the newer Zunes (this is probably one of the most stupidest thing Microsoft did when releasing the 80 gb and the later models). I mean I like to mess around with my preferred listening style and use an equalizer to my liking, I too am an audiophile. For this I give props to the IPod. At the time I bought the Zune, it was the better value since it was cheaper than say the IPod Touch and had more memory but my new Classic actually was cheaper than the 120gb Zune, at 219.00 US. Now in response to SkateNYC's comments, he does sound like a fanboy for IPod and that's fine if he/she wants to be opinionated but that's just it, that's his/her opinion and for him/her to try to influence his/her opinions on the rest of us is just a lost cause in stupidity since you and I and everyone else will always have their own opinion and I for one will not be influenced by a moronic claim that you are a Microsoft Zombie coming from someone who would pay 400 plus dollars for what is supposed to be an MP3 player, not a hapless attempt to a geeky music/video/game/photo player. If I wanted something like this I would of bought a PSP. Point being, you just can never satisfy anyone or pretend to even understand the logic over why you need to "defend" a product like a drone to a queen bee. Personally, even though I like my Zune, I actually use my IPod more since it does have the EQ which I can use. Although not the best, it is better than none. Hopefully Microsoft can better the Zune to bring their sales up, specifically add some stuff to it ie. EQ and drop some stuff out (WiFI?) and maybe even either update their Zune program or allow for it to be used on Windows Media Player to synch. Maybe then I would get a new Zune for that reason alone.

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Good points.

I've been using my Zune exclusively since my iPod's headphone jack stopped working, I'd forgotten about the EQ... However, I haven't really had a problem with the software since the update in November... I mean, other than the auto-album art thing, which sucks. I used to have zAlternator for syncing with WMP, but it doesn't work anymore. =(

I really only use the Zune when I need to sync, I use MP3Tag to tag things and add album art and WMP to rip my CD's.

I don't really have a problem with people defending their devices of choice, if someone else is touting why another one is better, why not rebut? I took issue with the fact that he was doing so by putting down the other one with fictional issues. =P

But, yes, I agree, to each his own.

yeah i can not understand why i pods are so popular, and the zune isnt. i have an 8 gig ipod, and an 8 gig zune and the zune is far superior in my opinion

I've have a 30 gig and the 80 gig zune. Both are excellent.
But agree with most that there is no advertising for the zune. All I ever see is, inano, itunes, ipod, iphone. it's all about the I
Yes the zune market place is drm restricted. BUT with the zune you can plug it to ANY sound producing device, via the AV pack or anything that takes the head phone jack.
Also when itunes first came out if you remember it was NOT compatable with anything BUT Ipods. while with Zune market place you can play it via your comp, the to your tv to whatever. or through your zune as I said a min ago.
Also it is kinda cool how you can hook it up to your 360 and have your playlist there to be able to listen during your games.
In my OPINION it is far supior to the i-whatever.
but their biggest fall is the advertising.
If it dies out so be it. I enjoied it while it lasted!

Whoever adds Divx and Xvid support will be on top of the otherone easily! hint hint

Morreale, they all have about the same audio fidelity. Zunes have more relyable hardware (harddisk) and a better screen. If you want better fidelity get some real ear phones. Apple sells only junk. The last time I checked, even the $200 ones were not very good. I am happy with a pair of Philips I picked up for $20 about 6 months ago. The range is 5-22,000 hz. Human hearing is 20 -20,000.

Yea yesterday I just bought some Denon headphones (DN-HP700) for about $150 CAD off of eBay... Their range is 10-30,000hz which is tested to be true because apparently some companies like to round off their numbers by a lot... The bigger brothers (DN-HP1000) get 5-33,000hz but with 53mm drivers and all plastic, I thought they were just too big and maybe fragile compared to mine with 40mm drivers and a metal headband, which is really nice :)

I dropped my Zune while the HDD was spinning so its dead, but i'd buy a flash based Zune any day of the week.

I LOVED my Zune. There are so many little things that the Zune does right. I purchased a cheaper alternative and I regret it everyday. MS should price the Zune cheaper and really push the coolness that is the Zune card. WMP should support that and it should be a selling point.

Quote:

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Compared to the iPhone and the iPod touch, the Zune sucks, and everyone knows it. I don't care how many testimonials I read from so-called Zune owners. The fact that the Zune owns aroud 3% of the market versus 70% market share for the iPod should be enough suggestive evidence to quiet the squawkers. But it isn't. So be it.

---

I don't own either so I'm not qualified to debate this...
But you have to admit that it's pretty damned ironic to hear an APPLE guy arguing the whole... MS has only 3% of the market Vs 70% for the APPLE device so be quiet.
C'mon... it's funny, right???

BTW: I own a Sony MYLO so I pwn all of you!!! LOL

Originally posted by nintenut:

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I've been using my Zune exclusively since my iPod's headphone jack stopped working, I'd forgotten about the EQ... However, I haven't really had a problem with the software since the update in November... I mean, other than the auto-album art thing, which sucks. I used to have zAlternator for syncing with WMP, but it doesn't work anymore. =(

I really only use the Zune when I need to sync, I use MP3Tag to tag things and add album art and WMP to rip my CD's.

I don't really have a problem with people defending their devices of choice, if someone else is touting why another one is better, why not rebut? I took issue with the fact that he was doing so by putting down the other one with fictional issues. =P

But, yes, I agree, to each his own.

---

It' not even a matter of people defending their devices and such. I mean sure we are all going to agree or disagree at certain times about certain things and whether you like Zunes and I like IPods (well in this case that is)would be a failing argument. IPods have been dominating the MP3 scene for a while, Microsoft is too stupid to advertise or should I say expand on their advertising efforts to get the Zune brand out more. With all the money Bill's company makes, you would think a few million could of been set aside to make a few commercials for the Zune. They are going the way of Sony: Sony might have some beautiful players although slightly expensive but when was the last time you ever saw a commercial for a Sony Mp3 player or to be correct, a Walkman?
Now with software: before I am labeled a fanboy (I am starting to sound like one) I will admit I do favor ITunes over te Zune software. I handed down my Zune to my kid sister and, although she loves it, we both hate the software, it is too glitchy for our tastes and sometimes just hangs. Half the time the software does not even detect the Zune until like say 10 to 20 minutes. What I do love of the software is how quickly music can be added to the music folder to then synch with the Zune. On the other hand, ITunes has all those features that I like but it such a memory hog and can be tedious at times but all around I prefer it over Zune software.
To tell you the truth, I would rather use a player/music manager of my own for either one of these players but that is just me.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Morreale, they all have about the same audio fidelity. Zunes have more relyable hardware (harddisk) and a better screen. If you want better fidelity get some real ear phones. Apple sells only junk. The last time I checked, even the $200 ones were not very good. I am happy with a pair of Philips I picked up for $20 about 6 months ago. The range is 5-22,000 hz. Human hearing is 20 -20,000.

---

I recently bought some Sony in ear phones which I got for around 11.00 or so US. I was skeptical at first because of the price, claiming they were made for IPod and/or PSP but surprisingly they are really good. I decided to get an additional pair but Amazon, at that time, was sold out (I think they have them back in stock now). Well, while searching for these earphones online, I finally found them for 3.32 US. So I ordered three sets and even after shipping and tax, I was back to my original 11.00 odd dollars I had paid at Amazon but for only one pair. Might want to give these a try, here is the link http://www.lightinthebox.com/SONY-EX088-...009-_p8104.html

Originally posted by EnigmaCM:

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ITunes has all those features that I like but it such a memory hog and can be tedious at times but all around I prefer it over Zune software.

---

I have a Mac and I dual boot Leopard and Windows 7 (used to boot XP Pro) and I use iTunes for music on both and iTunes is WAY faster and better too on Leopard then Windows 7, like it's retarded (to me anyways). It's better too for me because to use my remote to switch songs, in 7 I have to have the window open or it won't do anything and when I press the X in Leopard to close the window it minimises to the dock and in 7 it actually exits, which just pisses me off because I'm used to iTunes on Mac lol

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EnigmaCM, although Sony ear buds blow away apple something like Koss plugs that sell for single digit USDs blows them away. The Philips are better still.
Sony Frequency Response: 18Hz ~ 21kHz
Koss 8Hz-20kHz
Philips 5Hz-22
Hearing 20 -20,000 however you can feel below 5 Hz but it takes a teenager to sense even 20KHz so the high end difference is not very important.

The Zune software is as bad as it gets I don't think anyone has made a worse audio manager. It even makes itunes look good. itunes only rated 15 out of a possible 100 points in a recent review. The winner got 100 and runner up got in the 90s and even Windows Media Player blew away itunes. Zune might have gotten a minus rating.

I used a Zune for the first time a few weeks ago. It actually is a nice mp3 player. Easy to use with a nice interface and an over all good "feel" to it.

Right now I have a 20gb photo iPod, but 20gb isn't nearly enough for my 250gb library. I could go either way from my next mp3 player purchase. The deciding factor now is how much storage can I get for the least amount of dollar?

I believe the problem is the mkting, 'cause Zune is for me better by far than the ipod, just an example, here in Mexico is not sold in stores, we have to buy either on the border or using ebay, which increases the price a liitle bit...

regards ! ! !

Does anybody really believe all this tripe?

Credible reviews in respected publications about the Zune were dismal. User experience with the Zune and the software has been luke warm at best. Sales are so poor that Microsoft fudged the numbers to push over the 1 million barrier, only to recant later when challenged.

Most responders here however, paint a glowing picture of the Zune. Could it be that the product really is great, in spite of Microsoft's dismal approach to anything interface or user-experience related? After all, they did have Apple to copy off of...again. Or could it be that the 89,000 people working at Microsoft and the countless thousands of MCSEs and others that make a living off of fixing Microsoft's failings flood these and other boards with praise for Microsoft's many crappy products?

Hmmmmmmmm....

Originally posted by ericg8:

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Does anybody really believe all this tripe?

Credible reviews in respected publications about the Zune were dismal. User experience with the Zune and the software has been luke warm at best. Sales are so poor that Microsoft fudged the numbers to push over the 1 million barrier, only to recant later when challenged.

Most responders here however, paint a glowing picture of the Zune. Could it be that the product really is great, in spite of Microsoft's dismal approach to anything interface or user-experience related? After all, they did have Apple to copy off of...again. Or could it be that the 89,000 people working at Microsoft and the countless thousands of MCSEs and others that make a living off of fixing Microsoft's failings flood these and other boards with praise for Microsoft's many crappy products?

Hmmmmmmmm....

---

I'll just go ahead and put this out there: You're a edited for content that violates forum rules idiot.

I'm not even going to humor you, or tear apart that pile of edited for content that violates forum rules you posted bit by bit, I'm just going to say this... Microsoft employees doing the sort of thing you described are going to post up false reviews on Amazon, or make blogs about how awesome their product is.
Comments under a frigging news article are not good advertisement in comparison, why waste their time?

And, hey, here's an idea, maybe some people actually like the product? I think it's definitely possible, some people like the PS3, why not the Zune?

Actually, I'm going to go against what I just said, I am going to tear apart your post.

Originally posted by ericg8:

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Credible reviews in respected publications about the Zune were dismal. User experience with the Zune and the software has been luke warm at best. Sales are so poor that Microsoft fudged the numbers to push over the 1 million barrier, only to recant later when challenged.

---

My, you seem knowledgible, why not post links to some recent dismal "Credible reviews in respected publications" to back up your argument instead of just stating something and expecting people to take it as fact?

You can't just throw out a blanket "User experience is negative". Users are people, and people have different tastes. Some people, like myself, don't have a problem with the Zune itself. I've already stated my dislike of the software.

Show me "Fudged numbers". Show me.

Originally posted by ericg8:

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Could it be that the product really is great, in spite of Microsoft's dismal approach to anything interface or user-experience related?

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Apparently.

Originally posted by ericg8:

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After all, they did have Apple to copy off of...again.

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I'm not even acknowledging that as an argument against anything. What did they copy from Apple?

A typical review:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/

Ok, we had a bit of a rough start...rough edges to go right along with the well thought-out niceties. We came away underwhelmed and not at all surprised...expectations were for Microsoft to deliver a "Microsoft" player...not too shabby looking, but not very usable, and definitely bug-ridden. ...It's a Microsoft product (in the vernacular sense) through and through.

On May 28, 2007 Microsoft reported hitting the 1 million Zunes sold mark. Shortly thereafter they recanted. Apparently stuffing them into the distribution channel does not count as sold units. They reiterated the claim on July 20. Pundits still doubt that the figure represents units sold to customers.

As for copying Apple, just look at a Zune! Windows was a direct response to the first Macintosh. Sure, Apple did not invent the LAN, Ethernet, the mouse, the GUI, etc., their pioneering drove Microsoft to try and keep up. Had Microsoft done a decent implementation, then we would not be having this conversation. Now Vista is a direct and pathetic response to Mac OSX. Some constructs that Apple did invent such as widgets and the tool bar are copied as well. Other innovations by Apple are freely given to the PC community, such as iTunes and Bonjour. Microsoft is no innovator, and as a follower they pretty much suck at that too.

The old Zune looks like a piece of edited for content that violates forum rules... The new one looks nice though :)

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But that's what it looked like! It was even brown too...

Originally posted by ericg8:

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A typical review:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/

Ok, we had a bit of a rough start...rough edges to go right along with the well thought-out niceties. We came away underwhelmed and not at all surprised...expectations were for Microsoft to deliver a "Microsoft" player...not too shabby looking, but not very usable, and definitely bug-ridden. ...It's a Microsoft product (in the vernacular sense) through and through.

On May 28, 2007 Microsoft reported hitting the 1 million Zunes sold mark. Shortly thereafter they recanted. Apparently stuffing them into the distribution channel does not count as sold units. They reiterated the claim on July 20. Pundits still doubt that the figure represents units sold to customers.

As for copying Apple, just look at a Zune! Windows was a direct response to the first Macintosh. Sure, Apple did not invent the LAN, Ethernet, the mouse, the GUI, etc., their pioneering drove Microsoft to try and keep up. Had Microsoft done a decent implementation, then we would not be having this conversation. Now Vista is a direct and pathetic response to Mac OSX. Some constructs that Apple did invent such as widgets and the tool bar are copied as well. Other innovations by Apple are freely given to the PC community, such as iTunes and Bonjour. Microsoft is no innovator, and as a follower they pretty much suck at that too.

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Okay, first off, that's a more than two-year-old review of the first Zune. We're already two hardware models and a whole bunch of updates away from that.

You got me with the numbers, but don't pretend Microsoft is the only company to ever do that. And, again, that's something more than a year old, almost two.

That last bit is still edited for content that violates forum rules. You said "As for copying Apple, just look at the Zune!" and went off on a rant about Operating Systems and software that has nothing to do with the Zune. That makes sense.

Again, I hate Vista, I'm not going to defend it, but it has no place in an argument about the Zune.

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That last bit is still bullsh*t. You said "As for copying Apple, just look at the Zune!" and went off on a rant about Operating Systems and software that has nothing to do with the Zune. That makes sense

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You asked me to defend my statement that Microsoft copied Apple again. That would suggest that Microsoft had copied Apple on previous occasions. Hence the relevancy of mentioning Vista, Windows, etc. (heck, even DOS was a thinly veiled copy of CP/M)

It is quite clear, even from a cursory inspection of the Zune that it was a direct copy in appearance and function of its iPod predecessor. Introduced in November of 2006, the Zune was amazingly similar to iPods that had been brought to market over 5 years previous, right down to the signature circular wheel user control. To their credit, most other manufacturers of mp3 players were able to offer products with unique form factors, controls, and functionality. Microsoft also chose to mimic the online music store offered by Apple. One feature that Microsoft came up with on its own was the programming glitch that caused all Zunes to cease funtioning completely on Jan 1, 2009, just in time for users' new year's resolutions work out programs at the gym! LOL

Glad to hear the new Zune doesn't suck as much. Forgive me and most consumers for not sticking around to notice. And, with the new iPod Touch starting at around $200, supporting vivid movie playback and thousands of applications, don't expect that to change soon.

One thing great about the new Zune is, it may become a collector's item. Microsoft is hemorrhaging cash, losing millions on the ill-fated product line. (see their own financial disclosures)

Perhaps they should stick to what they are good at. Like rebranding crappy products. Hey, maybe they should introduce a new line of MP3 players called ZUNE 7. Nobody would figure that one out! LOL

I'd have less reason to pick your posts apart if you weren't such an obvious edited for content that violates forum rules.

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You asked me to defend my statement that Microsoft copied Apple again. That would suggest that Microsoft had copied Apple on previous occasions. Hence the relevancy of mentioning Vista, Windows, etc. (heck, even DOS was a thinly veiled copy of CP/M)

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Oh, I'm sorry, in my head we were arguing about the Zune. I obviously wasn't paying attention. 9_9

(Also, learn to space your thoughts, makes it easier to read than a wall of text. I'll do it for you this time.)

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It is quite clear, even from a cursory inspection of the Zune that it was a direct copy in appearance and function of its iPod predecessor. Introduced in November of 2006, the Zune was amazingly similar to iPods that had been brought to market over 5 years previous, right down to the signature circular wheel user control. To their credit, most other manufacturers of mp3 players were able to offer products with unique form factors, controls, and functionality.

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Mm, I think it looks closer to an old Creative Zen than an iPod...
And what "Functionality" did other manufacturers bring to the table? Oh, wait, you mean like wireless connections to the music store from the device, or the ability to share music between players?

And, really, calling the touchpad a ripoff of the clickwheel? The first Zunes, which your argument seems to be against, didn't even have touch control, just a big button in the middle and four buttons around it. And don't say Microsoft ripped that off because Apple would be just as guilty.

The Zune rips off iPod functions? It's a f*cking portable media player, what functions did it rip off, displaying image files and playing music and videos?

I do admit that other portable media player manufacturers, Microsoft included, have used features first introduced by other companies. But, you know what? It's called competition, this sort of thing happens in every other form of electronics. Other things, too.

"Oh, your thing can do this? Well ours can do that as well as this!" "Then we'll add that feature to ours, too, and add some more features so people will buy ours!" ETC.

Your argument could be applied to anything. You could say Nintendo ripped off Atari when they came out with the NES, because it plays game cartridges and connects to a TV.

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Microsoft also chose to mimic the online music store offered by Apple.

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Okay, did you seriously just claim that Apple invented online music stores? Wow.

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One feature that Microsoft came up with on its own was the programming glitch that caused all Zunes to cease funtioning completely on Jan 1, 2009, just in time for users' new year's resolutions work out programs at the gym! LOL

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That only affected one model, and it was fixed in a day.

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Glad to hear the new Zune doesn't suck as much. Forgive me and most consumers for not sticking around to notice. And, with the new iPod Touch starting at around $200, supporting vivid movie playback and thousands of applications, don't expect that to change soon.

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Mm-hm, and up to 32GB of space. The iPod Touch is neat, but I just want a music player that can hold my collection. (See earlier in this thread).

nintenut, I read the Zune reviews I don't remember seeing any that were a dismissal. What I remember is is that it was tagged as an also ran. A good product undistinguishable from the competition. That is far from a dismissal in my book. However those reviews did predict the lack-luster sales. How can an also ran steal sales away from a market leader? The Zune was a classic example of too little too late. The ipods prices continue to drop smothering any chance the Zune and other also rans of making an easy buck. Only the very inexpensive Chipods and Sansas continue to erode Apple sales.

Apple hasn't taken much from M$ but most of its major inventions were taken from other places. M$ does not even try to pretent it invented what it steals. We do need to be thankful that Apple did take poorly used technology and made it commercial. The GUI interface and the ipod were just repackaged technology. Their skill was selecting what technology to cobble together and make it all work together. The other skill is giving ugly products 'face lifts'. They really know what looks good. The iphone used an emerging technology they didn't invent it.

I have never heard a complaint about Zune hardware. ipods get many hardware complaites these days. They are not making them like they used to.

Both Apple and M$ employes right good reviews for their companies products and bad reviews for leading competitors.

Nintenut ~ You have violated forum rules in multiple areas with your insults and language. This is not the first time you have been removed temporarily for these actions. Please watch your language & actions. You have the ability to make clear points and converse properly so please do so.

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Originally posted by gallagher:

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Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

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Wrong moron. I have thousands of songs on my 80 gig Zune and I don't download from Microsoft. Not a single song I have is DRM.

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Great. You're either ripping your own CDs, which everyone can do, or your downloading music illegally. Big deal. What an advantage.

No wonder the Zune continues to fail so miserably.

Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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Originally posted by gallagher:

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Originally posted by SkateNYC:

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@ nintenut: Did you know that your precious Zune can only download music from Microsoft with DRM restricitions, while this is no longer the case with the iPod.

Btw...if you didn't already know this, Microsoft is in the process of phasing out your crown jewel. Good luck with using your obsolete MP3 player with your big your big screen.

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Wrong moron. I have thousands of songs on my 80 gig Zune and I don't download from Microsoft. Not a single song I have is DRM.

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Great. You're either ripping your own CDs, which everyone can do, or your downloading music illegally. Big deal. What an advantage.

No wonder the Zune continues to fail so miserably.

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Or he's buying off iTunes.

The software isn't the issue in this debate, both devices can use iTunes...

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Great. You're either ripping your own CDs, which everyone can do, or your downloading music illegally. Big deal. What an advantage.

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That is the only way to get better than garbage music.

Only an Apple Zombie could make a statement like that which is screwed up on sooo many levels. I wouldn't take the crap itunes is selling if they gave it away.

You must be under the opinion to buy from itunes you must have an ipod. itunes is like the executive wash doom. Only the "in persons" get to buy there.

Most dogs prefer rotten meat to fresh. That is kinda like the tastes of Apple Zombies. They prefer low quality music to HiFi music.

I was recently in the market for a media player and I was looking at the zune. The reason I didn't get it is because I expect to be able to use my Microsoft device how I want.
With Apple you expect to be severely limited in what you can do. No homebrew software, DRM galore... ect ect ect...
But with Microsoft you expect to be able to use the WiFi like an actuall WiFi device, not in it's severely restricted way that zune allows.
It's too much money for a severely restricted device.

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Originally posted by ThePastor:

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...With Apple you expect to be severely limited in what you can do. No homebrew software, DRM galore... ect ect ect...

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Huh?! Apple is very open to app development. That's why there are thousands of 3rd party applications for the iPod touch, and none for the Zune.

As for DRM, Apple now offers DRM-free music and anything you rip yourself from CD is also DRM-free.

I'm talking about perception...
At least in my case, I wouldn't own an Ipod unless it was free. Yeah, I'm severely biased against Apple.
But, when I went looking for a player I saw that at about the same pricepoint I could get a Microsoft Zune and it had WiFi I was excited, until I found out that the WiFi is severely limited.

As for the Ipod, sure, there's lots of software, but it all has to come from the Ipod store... I can't install my own software... and don't even get me started on the Itunes stuff. I uninstalled that months ago and I'm still removing left over files and TSR crap.

Not that Microsoft is better... I'll grant you that... but if I want to use my device in my own way I would look not at Apple, but at Microsoft, and it turns out that the Zune is as badly restricted as the Ipod... So I moved on.

I'm just suggesting that this may be one aspect of the issue. People who buy Microsoft are looking for a particular usability, basically not locked down like Apple, and the Zune does NOT deliver.

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you ought to take a critical look at your biases then. I am a support professional with a 4-year degree in computer science. Apple has very nice stuff. From the perspectives of performance, ease-of-use, value, security, and resale value, they are far and away better than any significant product in the market place.

Sure, they sell apps through their store. They are cheap, certified, and virus-free. And, they are all in one place, easy to find, and convenient. But, you don't have to use them. Not sure what your alternative in the marketplace would be. No other company offers anything close in a wifi-enabled MP3 capable of running external apps.

As for iTunes, it is a terrific piece of software. The Windows version requires more "stuff" to be installed, but that's Microsoft's fault. That is the case with all applications installed on a PC versus other better-written operating systems. Perhaps the issues that you experienced were already there, but only came to light when you installed iTunes? I would suggest a complete reload and try again.

As for "locked-down", I'm not sure what you mean. Sign up and become an iPod developer if you want. Apple will provide all the tools you need to load any of your own software on there you'd like.

Finally Pastor, please do not pose as some novice user. The mere fact that you know the acronym TSR belies your computer-industry background. At least that's my perception.

Novice... hehe, hmmmm... no, I wouldn't say novice, though I certainly do not have a 4 year computer science degree. :D
I've been around a long time. Back "in the day" everything was a TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) Now they are called SysTray apps. Or worse, Services.
I am still finding an Ipod "Service" in my list of services. Sure, I was able to turn it off, but I uninstalled that program months ago.
Certainly, Apple is not the only company that does this type of stuff but Itunes has that reputation, and I've so-far, found it to be true.

All of what you say may be true, I'm not arguing that. But the difference in philosophy between the Ibm/Microsoft world and the Apple world is night and day. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to suggest that.

As a PC user I usually look for hardware that is going to be open to my will. For example, I own a WM6.1 phone. I like WM6.1. I don't think it's the best out there, but I can change it in any way I wish, even changing system files and all sorts of groovy things. I can download any program designed to run in this OS no matter the developer or even write my own and I can install all or part of it in any way I wish.
I am most likely not able to have that amount of freedom with an Apple device. (perception)

So, when I went looking for a device I discounted the Ipod out of the gate. There is no way I would ever be happy with that. (perception), then I discovered a Microsoft device which was very similar. My expectation was to find a device which worked like Windows. That I could use it in my way and install whatever I wanted, configure anything I wished and above all use the WiFi as I desired. I did not find this. Instead I found a device which was basically limited, just like the Ipod. There was no real difference. The WiFi was severely limited and it was not running a version of Windows. It was a proprietary device running a propriety OS, everything I HATE about Apple.
So I didn't buy one.

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so you like tinkering with your gear to get it to work, then I suppose Microsoft products are right for you. For others that just want the most utility with the least amount of pain, Microsoft is a poor choice. As for a "proprietary device running a propriety OS", I'm not sure how the iPod is any more proprietary than the zune, or any other product of this nature. Frankly, I don't even think that criticism is applicable to their computers. Sure, you are limited on the hardware side to some extent (peripherals, boards, drives, memory, accessories, etc. all tend to work with the Mac), but in return you get a well-made product with a great resale value and freedom from most driver-related headaches. but, this is a free country so suit yourself. Competition is a good thing.