iTunes costs almost $1 billion to run per year

"The company has long said, however, that the iTunes store is break-even in regards to profit and that its main purpose is to drive Apple hardware, such as the iPhone and iPods."

WTF! They charge insane amounts for apps, video, and audio...then they claim they are just breaking even? Maybe they should pass the burden onto someone who can make a fortune on such services, like Amazon, Google, or any autistic 3-year-old.

HaHa KB.

Maybe they should find a way to stop crooks fishing their site with stolen CC numbers.

I wonder if they didn't have DRM didn't have the mess of hardware DRM,ect to support and such if it would cost a 1oth of that....

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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I wonder if they didn't have DRM didn't have the mess of hardware DRM,ect to support and such if it would cost a 1oth of that....

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Probably...it must take a lot of server power to confirm a license every time someone listens to a single track.


...Just think how much ubisoft wastes on always-on DRM!

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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I wonder if they didn't have DRM didn't have the mess of hardware DRM,ect to support and such if it would cost a 1oth of that....

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Probably...it must take a lot of server power to confirm a license every time someone listens to a single track.


...Just think how much ubisoft wastes on always-on DRM!

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Not to mention when you update or when Itunes is on, its a mess I got a 32GB Itouch I love it and all but wholly fck Itunes is horrible software/gui/usability wise.

If it were not for itunes, the iPod would not be a bad device...certainly overpriced, and with audio quality below that of some other units, but still not a bad device. Unfortunately, iTunes exists...so apple cripples their devices in a way that makes them require iTunes for everything...you can't even update an iPhone 3GS without using iTunes on a PC! WTF?

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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with audio quality below that of some other units

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What makes you say that? Most mp3s, even the chipods have great sound because it costs nothing to make a HiFi signal @ 100 miliwats or less. Apple does believe in LoFi ear buds. The STD mug-me whites are as LoFi as Chipod buds (the 20/$100 kind) and even their very expensive top of the line buds are still LoFi. Replace them with some 7 USD in the ear buds and you hear HiFi.

Well luckily Apple has never had to worry about their budget. Even though I hate their guts, I do own their stock. They know how to make money.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Originally posted by KillerBug:

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with audio quality below that of some other units

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What makes you say that? Most mp3s, even the chipods have great sound because it costs nothing to make a HiFi signal @ 100 miliwats or less. Apple does believe in LoFi ear buds. The STD mug-me whites are as LoFi as Chipod buds (the 20/$100 kind) and even their very expensive top of the line buds are still LoFi. Replace them with some 7 USD in the ear buds and you hear HiFi.

Well luckily Apple has never had to worry about their budget. Even though I hate their guts, I do own their stock. They know how to make money.

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I got me some J2 buds and love them
http://www.google.com/products?client=fi...F-8&sa=N&tab=wf

Only spent like 15$ on them, best ear bud set I have ever had.

Zippy the best I ever got were actually $7! I had bought the same model a few yrs back for $22. Most in-the-ears have remarkable fidelity. They use a very tiny ultra-powerful rare earth magnets. The physics of something that small with such a powerful magnet must produce amazing sound.

With in the ears it is not about quality, all are amazing, it is the how comfortable they are and the suppleness of the wire, ect. All very trivial things.

Then you have Apple, selling fancy looking but LoHi buds for a few hundred bucks. That is why they don't need to be worried about budgets.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Zippy the best I ever got were actually $7! I had bought the same model a few yrs back for $22. Most in-the-ears have remarkable fidelity. They use a very tiny ultra-powerful rare earth magnets. The physics of something that small with such a powerful magnet must produce amazing sound.

With in the ears it is not about quality, all are amazing, it is the how comfortable they are and the suppleness of the wire, ect. All very trivial things.

Then you have Apple, selling fancy looking but LoHi buds for a few hundred bucks. That is why they don't need to be worried about budgets.

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I kidna noticed that since my 2$ pair that came free with soemthign I gave to a friend with a off brand MP3 player had good sound.

I hate the large earbuds that rely on the outter part of inside the ear to stay put they hurt my ears.......

The only trouble I have with inner ear buds is wax build up....LOL.....

Your ear must be too small for ipod style ear buds. The in the ears usually come with 3 sizes of seals. The problem with in the ears are the magnets that reproduce the sound so well are also extremely efficient. That makes they about 20% louder than the rest and can damage your ears. Mothers of the planet are making waves and many new pm3 players are now outputting less power. You are screwed if you have 16 ohm ear phones which require twice the power for the same noise level.

The Sennheiser PX 10's for me...

Well my friend, they would not be for me. They are light on the base compared with in the ears and ultra high impedance (32 Ohm). They should sound 1/4 as loud as an in the ear at 8 ohms for the same volume. In the ears can deliver sub woofer lows @ 8 Hz. I bet they deliver better base than most sub woofers.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Well my friend, they would not be for me. They are light on the base compared with in the ears and ultra high impedance (32 Ohm). They should sound 1/4 as loud as an in the ear at 8 ohms for the same volume. In the ears can deliver sub woofer lows @ 8 Hz. I bet they deliver better base than most sub woofers.

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WRONG Mez.

Impedance 16 ohm. http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/hom...es-px-10-in-ear

They can deliver a sound pressure level of 121 dB! Do you have any idea how loud that is compared to ordinary earbuds (average 100 dB)?, they are incredibly loud and efficient. This is not my first pair of such things. If you don't believe me go into a shop and try them out, simple as that.

These are not cheap.

But they sound fantastic.

Yes, the base is great and the highs are sweet. Yes, they are very comfortable, light and don't block the air to your ears. They do not break easily.

As much as I respect you Mez... utterly wrong here.

[Make sure when you try them out they are in the right way around ~ it makes a big difference.]

I just read the specs from your link. They are a bit different than what I saw on another site. Since your link is an official sight I will differ to yours. I actually never heard of any ear phone or speaker at 32 ohm. I should have guessed it was a misprint.

You are right about loudness 120+ db is right up with in the ear buds. 120 is the border between safe and not safe listening. 120 and above is where short intervals can damage your ears. All the in the ears are in the 120s. I guess I am not as smart as I thought. It is using half the power of an 8 ohm system and still getting the volume. However, 8 vs 19 Hz is not many Hz but is a big difference because it is very hard to get below 20 Hz. The power need to generate the sub sonics is considerable and is technically challenging. Maybe that is why they need to be 8 ohm. Below 20 you feel rather than hear the sound.

They look expensive. Too much for my wallet. I bet they don't pop out of your ears.

Originally posted by Mez:

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I just read the specs from your link. They are a bit different than what I saw on another site. Since your link is an official sight I will differ to yours. I actually never heard of any ear phone or speaker at 32 ohm. I should have guessed it was a misprint.

You are right about loudness 120+ db is right up with in the ear buds. 120 is the border between safe and not safe listening. 120 and above is where short intervals can damage your ears. All the in the ears are in the 120s. I guess I am not as smart as I thought. It is using half the power of an 8 ohm system and still getting the volume. However, 8 vs 19 Hz is not many Hz but is a big difference because it is very hard to get below 20 Hz. The power need to generate the sub sonics is considerable and is technically challenging. Maybe that is why they need to be 8 ohm. Below 20 you feel rather than hear the sound.

They look expensive. Too much for my wallet. I bet they don't pop out of your ears.

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To much?
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q...0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

That price isn't bad at all. I usually keep a nano with ear buds wrapped around them on my person all the time. You never know when you will be in a situation with nothing to do. With the buds, the package is tiny.

I might ask a kid to get me a pair for X-mass. My wife has heard in the ears are dangerous and my hearing is not all that good. I am old and I was exposed to very loud noises during my first job of ten yrs. Some days you would come home with ringing ears. That was before OSHA. I even remember the event that started it all. Someone put silver cyanide in an acid tank instead of a water tank. That event killed everyone in the factory with cyanide gas. My wife has threatened to smash my buds if she finds them out. Maybe she will be fooled that these are safer and I can listen to music in the house again.

Originally posted by Mez:

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That price isn't bad at all. I usually keep a nano with ear buds wrapped around them on my person all the time. You never know when you will be in a situation with nothing to do. With the buds, the package is tiny.

I might ask a kid to get me a pair for X-mass. My wife has heard in the ears are dangerous and my hearing is not all that good. I am old and I was exposed to very loud noises during my first job of ten yrs. Some days you would come home with ringing ears. That was before OSHA. I even remember the event that started it all. Someone put silver cyanide in an acid tank instead of a water tank. That event killed everyone in the factory with cyanide gas. My wife has threatened to smash my buds if she finds them out. Maybe she will be fooled that these are safer and I can listen to music in the house again.

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No as tiny as earbuds and they do not fold... but not so big either though and they are flexible.

They have a little volume control on the cable... make sure it is turned down if your wife tries them on... or put them on her the wrong way around. :)

Sorry if I sounded terse before, I did not mean to... I was only trying to be emphatic, I know they sound excellent. Some people don't like the fit, fair enough, but I can't go back to ordinary earbuds after these. You can support the cable with a safety pin under the volume control.

Let me know what you think if you try them out.

Cheers,
Jem.

I have very thick skin don't even mention it. I thought you were right in line.

Originally posted by willyguzz:

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iTunes while updating iPods/iPhones makes it a no brainer overall.

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As apposed to what??? itunes 9 rated as least capable of all the popular audio management software. Even Windows Media Player handily beat itunes. Apple restricts what you can do in the hopes that Apple will make more revenue. itunes is good only if you would prefer few choices to more choices. There are people that don't care about much other than being easy. itunes is for them.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Originally posted by willyguzz:

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iTunes while updating iPods/iPhones makes it a no brainer overall.

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As apposed to what??? itunes 9 rated as least capable of all the popular audio management software. Even Windows Media Player handily beat itunes. Apple restricts what you can do in the hopes that Apple will make more revenue. itunes is good only if you would prefer few choices to more choices. There are people that don't care about much other than being easy. itunes is for them.

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Even WinAmp can manage most iPods and suchwise.

Exactly, my friend! Out of the 20 apps that can sync an ipod, itunes takes the booby prize. If you can't think for yourself and do not like to make choices, itunes is perfect. Well WinAmp is actually at the top of the heap with Media Monkey. I have seen several audio manager reviews WP and MM are always above 95% in the ratings. The rest start near 50. itunes rings in at about 20% and is consistently by far the worst. WMP even kicks its ass and that is pure garbage. The two continue to duke it out for first place with the next contender not even in sight. For what I do Media Monkey is best but I tip my hat to WinAmp and I have 3 juke box apps on my computer. I also use Foobar for a particular job from time to time. With those 3 you have all the bases covered.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Exactly, my friend! Out of the 20 apps that can sync an ipod, itunes takes the booby prize. If you can't think for yourself and do not like to make choices, itunes is perfect. Well WinAmp is actually at the top of the heap with Media Monkey. I have seen several audio manager reviews WP and MM are always above 95% in the ratings. The rest start near 50. itunes rings in at about 20% and is consistently by far the worst. WMP even kicks its ass and that is pure garbage. The two continue to duke it out for first place with the next contender not even in sight. For what I do Media Monkey is best but I tip my hat to WinAmp and I have 3 juke box apps on my computer. I also use Foobar for a particular job from time to time. With those 3 you have all the bases covered.

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I must try Media Monkey.

What do you use Foobar for?

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Foobar is a player for audiophiles. It has tools and plug-ins for double blind testing transcoding etc. I don't use it often. Their forum has many true audio experts. If you really like WA you may not like MM. MM has a busy user interface vs WA's minimal interface. It is too busy for some persons. What MM does best is handling huge libraries, they have a great disk burn routine. The old itunes of 5 years back choked on 2K of tunes. MM back then thought that was nothing. Since then they have made the back end much more powerful. MM uses a SQL back end and is good for tens of thousands of tunes.

Even a moron can pretty much do even fairly complex burns. The next version V4 may have the third best ripper right behind dbpoweramp and EAC. It is written in VB and has a way to incorporate VB scripts as part of its own code. Users who are also programmers build these routines which can be incredibly sophisticated. This is an example of a mid way complex mod. You pick an artist then run this report. It builds a web page containing tunes that have been sold but you do not have in your library. There are links to where you can buy and usually listen to a sample of that tune. I have seen scripts that alter the way you sync your portable. Usually rating are pushed to your portable but you can have the portable push to MM. Obviously you can't have it both ways. I bet the mods/scripts count in the hundreds. Oh yes and on topic the out of the box auto sync routine has 4-6 tabs, I can't remember how many. If you sync a play list and you add/delete tunes from it, it will update your device the next time around. Sometime it does forget the first time around but usually by the second time it syncs up they will be the same. What do you want for a free version??? Even the paid for version is cheap. The free version only have the burning speed crippled.

It dose me no good all I want to do is view my music as files....... Itunes....ssuuucckkkssssss I break 8 hours of live local talk radio into 8 1 hour parts and using Itunes I can barely navigate one set of them much less a week........ and why can't I make a playlist on the PC and port it and the music files to the Ipod? ....ughh......bbwwaaiinnssss..... *shuffle shuffle*

Originally posted by Mez:

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Foobar is a player for audiophiles. It has tools and plug-ins for double blind testing transcoding etc. I don't use it often. Their forum has many true audio experts. If you really like WA you may not like MM. MM has a busy user interface vs WA's minimal interface. It is too busy for some persons. What MM does best is handling huge libraries, they have a great disk burn routine. The old itunes of 5 years back choked on 2K of tunes. MM back then thought that was nothing. Since then they have made the back end much more powerful. MM uses a SQL back end and is good for tens of thousands of tunes.

Even a moron can pretty much do even fairly complex burns. The next version V4 may have the third best ripper right behind dbpoweramp and EAC. It is written in VB and has a way to incorporate VB scripts as part of its own code. Users who are also programmers build these routines which can be incredibly sophisticated. This is an example of a mid way complex mod. You pick an artist then run this report. It builds a web page containing tunes that have been sold but you do not have in your library. There are links to where you can buy and usually listen to a sample of that tune. I have seen scripts that alter the way you sync your portable. Usually rating are pushed to your portable but you can have the portable push to MM. Obviously you can't have it both ways. I bet the mods/scripts count in the hundreds. Oh yes and on topic the out of the box auto sync routine has 4-6 tabs, I can't remember how many. If you sync a play list and you add/delete tunes from it, it will update your device the next time around. Sometime it does forget the first time around but usually by the second time it syncs up they will be the same. What do you want for a free version??? Even the paid for version is cheap. The free version only have the burning speed crippled.

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Coolant.

Ah yes, I love EAC.

It is in a class by its self for free rippers. MM may give it a run for its money it that regard in the near future.

The author had copyright hassles and had to remove one small minor aspect that would have made it, for want of a better expression, 100% perfect. That's why as well he/she has never updated it after all these years. But strangely, has he ever needed to? Maybe an interface update I suppose.

I don't know of any other program that actually analyses the individual characteristics of one's reader in regards to reproducing a CD exactly. I put a CD that I thought was lost to playback in it and managed to resurrect it.

What make those 3 so reliable is that they use an outside database Accurip. By design, optical disks are far more difficult to read than you would expect. It would take too long to explain why, except to say optical drives for computers are required not to have certain tools in their firmware that all players have. For that reason, special care is required to get an exact copy. Anyone not using one of the three are sure not to have exact copies of their CDs, even if they verify the disk. Over the years, I have had running battles with persons using apps like Nero to copy their disk but were not happy with the result but defend their technique till they are blue in the face. They blame it on firmware, their drive, but never Nero.

Anything that uses accurip will either create an exact copy or will provide a warning for each track that is not perfect. dbPowerAmp user accurip for many years before EAC. I rate dbPA superior in most aspects but it is a paid for app. Where it fails to be as good is now, it relys or Accurip too much so that the rip can be much faster. It REALLY needs to alter its behavior if the CD is not found in accurip which it does not. dbPA uses burst mode which is lighting fast and usually is fine. If accurip says the track is not right it cycles through more modes till it works OK of it gives up resulting in a good as it gets track with an error next to it. It should default to secure mode if the CD is not in accurip.

I am too conservative to use MM to rip even if when has accurip. I do use it to burn all but an occasional archive CD. Then I use a dbPA burn utility.

Stuff Nero, the only thing good about it is it's title. I ditched it years ago when it kept trashing expensive Verbatum dual-layer DVD blanks. I've cheerfully used Imgburn since amongst others.

I understand what you're referring to before. It is detailed in the EAC pages ~ the firmwear that deals with error correction etc. The Accurip database is one thing but (just for the benefit of other readers) EAC asks you to test a pristine and also a non-pristine CD in your player for comparison as well ~ do the other ones you mention do that too?

If you direct those persons that you mention to that relevant info on the EAC pages and they still don't want to use a free app (with, say, LAME for MP3 conversion)then what hope is there for them?

Hopefully on topic, I was in 3D CAD class tonight and one of the other students was banging on about how convenient iTunes was for finding artist's music and whatnot. "Why do you even bother" I asked, "when you can just search TPB and use uTorrent?". "Probably be better quality and all", I added. Needless to say he was surprised. Haha.


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You GOT THAT RIGHT! Why do they need to listen to you when they know every damn thing there is to know about what they are trying to do but, it just is not working out today.

I believe the pristine disc test is accurip not EAC. Because I tested my drives with dbPowerAmp I wasn't asked to run the test with EAC. I had forgotten about the test. I believe the secure mode just reads a block many times and keeps checking the CRC making sure it stays constant. That is why burst mode is so much faster. It only reads once. That is fine if the CD is in accurip. Maybe dbPA will allow you to force modes but it was easier just to switch apps.

If you want to see some cool info check out the first sticky in the audio forum. You are the inspiration for the new stuff written today. Thanks to your inspiration I sure wasted the day on that crap! Take care I really need to get to work now!

Cheers, will do, have a killer day Mez.