AfterDawn: Tech news

Greedy Oracle is looking to kill Android growth

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 09 Jul 2011 13:54 User comments (15)

Greedy Oracle is looking to kill Android growth Oracle, who has sued Google over infringing on Java copyrights and patents with its Android operating system is apparently now looking to collect royalties from Google handset makers, trying to squeeze margins even tighter in the industry.
The company, which purchased Sun Microsystems and all of its patents in 2010, is demanding damages of $2.6 billion and an injunction on Android.

It appears, following Microsoft's trend, that Oracle is asking for $15 per handset sold as a licensing fee.

Oracle is asking handset makers to join their "Early Adopter" program, which will lock in the $15 rate. If Oracle wins their case against Google, that number could be much higher.

Additionally, if vendors sign up, Oracle's case against Google will be given a boost as it will be clear that at least some company's believe Oracle is in the right and want to pay out less.

Microsoft recently won settlements with HTC and three smaller handset makers in which all will pay $10-$15 per Android handset sold. Microsoft has also recently demanded Samsung pay the same amount.

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15 user comments

19.7.2011 15:10

Google has used MPEG technology, H.264, JAVA, Sun, etc., technology to provide "free" OS for Google to enter new markets through Android. MS, Apple, HP, and Nokia [Meego, Symbian, and now Windows 7 Phone] are having to pay for their investments and IP used. Fair competition says if Google is seriously infringing, then it can pay for licenses out of its business profits in ads or let its hardware vendors pay, but pay someone will.

29.7.2011 15:20

Originally posted by gprovida:
... but pay someone will.
I believe that will probably be we the consumers in some form of bloated download cap fees, app charges, hidden fees by the carriers or other fees disguised in the purchase of a new phone. None of these companies will ever 'play the game' where they will have to make the sacrifice. It's been going on now for the better part of 40 years. That's an an addiction that only death could cure.

Too many other organizations have enabled corporations to get away with this behavior for far too long for any kind of reform, thus I dare anyone to ethically answer with another solution.

39.7.2011 16:07

Thats the price to pay for google's idiocy on choosing Java as their architecture platform.

49.7.2011 16:22
MelodyBliss
Unverified new user

uhh. How is Oracle Greedy? Oracle owns the IP. Google unlawfully infringed.

59.7.2011 17:08

Melody Bliss,

Google has not infringed. Get your facts right. If you've been following this case at all, you'd know that the patent office has invalidated the patents Oracle is whining about (due to prior art).

This latest development shows how greedy and desperate Oracle is to get their grubby fingers into the pie. Just like patent troll Microsoft, they didn't do the grunt work, just hired some fancy lawyers, and threaten expensive, drawn-out lawsuits (like the mafia does when they request protection money). If you can't innovate then litigate, seems to be the trend.

69.7.2011 17:17

Originally posted by coffeeshawn:
...they didn't do the grunt work...
I've been preachin' this for months... "something for nothing", "maximizing the minimums"... Chances are they got their business model from the entertainment industry...

79.7.2011 17:20

Originally posted by gprovida:
Google has used MPEG technology, H.264, JAVA, Sun, etc., technology to provide "free" OS for Google to enter new markets through Android. MS, Apple, HP, and Nokia [Meego, Symbian, and now Windows 7 Phone] are having to pay for their investments and IP used. Fair competition says if Google is seriously infringing, then it can pay for licenses out of its business profits in ads or let its hardware vendors pay, but pay someone will.
Hardware manufacturers who build Android phones already pay licensing fees for h.264. As for Java, computer languages can't be patented. And Android doesn't even use Java compiler or Java bytecode. Get a clue about what you're talking about before posting in support of patent trolls.

89.7.2011 19:24

Originally posted by LordRuss:
Originally posted by coffeeshawn:
...they didn't do the grunt work...
I've been preachin' this for months... "something for nothing", "maximizing the minimums"... Chances are they got their business model from the entertainment industry...
I Agree.
When a Company feel like they just "going down"....they just try to piggy back into somebody else and extortion it (1 time payment for Oracle if they lucky)

P.S.
1.- While most Android applications are written in Java, there is no Java Virtual Machine in the platform and Java byte code is not executed. Java classes are compiled into Dalvik executables and run on the Dalvik virtual machine. Dalvik is a specialized virtual machine designed specifically for Android and optimized for battery-powered mobile devices with limited memory and CPU. J2ME support can be provided via third-party applications.

2.- Oracle bought Sun pretty much to became a Patent-Troll !

3.- Patent laws today are run like the mafia !
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Jul 2011 @ 22:04

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

99.7.2011 23:17

Originally posted by coffeeshawn:

As for Java, computer languages can't be patented. And Android doesn't even use Java compiler or Java bytecode. Get a clue about what you're talking about before posting in support of patent trolls.

Regardless if Java is a language or not, the complaint by Oracle is for using the Java run time. If you can provide any company that uses the Sun/Oracle Java and not have to pay royalties, provide them. Microsoft had to pay, no company is gonna win the right to use the Java runtime and not pay Oracle...

Microsoft required to pay too...
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2001/jw-0124-iw-mssuncourt.html

Please provide you list of companies using the Java run time in a commercial app and not paying royalties. If you do contact Oracle as well, guaranteed Oracle would go after them too.

1010.7.2011 3:22

Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by coffeeshawn:

As for Java, computer languages can't be patented. And Android doesn't even use Java compiler or Java bytecode. Get a clue about what you're talking about before posting in support of patent trolls.

Regardless if Java is a language or not, the complaint by Oracle is for using the Java run time. If you can provide any company that uses the Sun/Oracle Java and not have to pay royalties, provide them. Microsoft had to pay, no company is gonna win the right to use the Java runtime and not pay Oracle...

Microsoft required to pay too...
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2001/jw-0124-iw-mssuncourt.html

Please provide you list of companies using the Java run time in a commercial app and not paying royalties. If you do contact Oracle as well, guaranteed Oracle would go after them too.

Did you read the article you posted? If you did, you need to re-read it; Microsoft paid "0 Million". In the end, they just stopped including java with windows, forcing users to download it themselves, and cutting the profits from Java considerably.

There are lots of companies that use Java and pay for it...but they use Oracle tools to do it rather than writing the stuff themselves, and they charge people money for their software. Freeware Java stuff (like android) does not need to pay...that is the only reason that freeware java stuff exists, and there wouldn't be any Java stuff at all if not for the developers starting on freeware projects.

The dumbest thing Sun ever did with Java was to force Microsoft to remove it from Windows...now Oracle owns the Java name and they want it removed from Android...the ONE platform that still uses it for anything but homebrew, hacker tools, and programming tools for other languages? They need to just end support for Java...they are never going to make any money on it and if they would just let it die, no one else would use it either...so no more lawsuits draining funds from the corporate accounts to protect something that no one pays for anyway.




1110.7.2011 13:01

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by coffeeshawn:

As for Java, computer languages can't be patented. And Android doesn't even use Java compiler or Java bytecode. Get a clue about what you're talking about before posting in support of patent trolls.

Regardless if Java is a language or not, the complaint by Oracle is for using the Java run time. If you can provide any company that uses the Sun/Oracle Java and not have to pay royalties, provide them. Microsoft had to pay, no company is gonna win the right to use the Java runtime and not pay Oracle...

Microsoft required to pay too...
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2001/jw-0124-iw-mssuncourt.html

Please provide you list of companies using the Java run time in a commercial app and not paying royalties. If you do contact Oracle as well, guaranteed Oracle would go after them too.

Did you read the article you posted? If you did, you need to re-read it; Microsoft paid "0 Million". In the end, they just stopped including java with windows, forcing users to download it themselves, and cutting the profits from Java considerably.

There are lots of companies that use Java and pay for it...but they use Oracle tools to do it rather than writing the stuff themselves, and they charge people money for their software. Freeware Java stuff (like android) does not need to pay...that is the only reason that freeware java stuff exists, and there wouldn't be any Java stuff at all if not for the developers starting on freeware projects.

The dumbest thing Sun ever did with Java was to force Microsoft to remove it from Windows...now Oracle owns the Java name and they want it removed from Android...the ONE platform that still uses it for anything but homebrew, hacker tools, and programming tools for other languages? They need to just end support for Java...they are never going to make any money on it and if they would just let it die, no one else would use it either...so no more lawsuits draining funds from the corporate accounts to protect something that no one pays for anyway.


My point wasn't that m1cro$oft had to pay anything, but get permission, and when i was working at MS at the time there was also an agreement to pay Sun some money and agree to some licensing terms which in turn would be a monetary value although no money changed hands.

But my point is M$ still got permission from Sun for Java, which i was refuting people saying java is a language and not copyrightable and no one needs to pay anything to Sun. What ever deal M$ and sun worked out was agreeable to Sun, the owner of java, that is my point.


1210.7.2011 13:35

Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by coffeeshawn:

As for Java, computer languages can't be patented. And Android doesn't even use Java compiler or Java bytecode. Get a clue about what you're talking about before posting in support of patent trolls.

Regardless if Java is a language or not, the complaint by Oracle is for using the Java run time. If you can provide any company that uses the Sun/Oracle Java and not have to pay royalties, provide them. Microsoft had to pay, no company is gonna win the right to use the Java runtime and not pay Oracle...
Some Bozo,

Android does not use Java run time. Please get your facts straight.

Android uses the Dalvik virtual machine. Look up Dalvik (software) on Wikipedia. (I'd post a direct link, but this website doesn't allow new users to post links.)

Folks, you need to know what you're talking about before posting against Android and in support of patent trolls.

1310.7.2011 13:50

Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by coffeeshawn:

As for Java, computer languages cant be patented. And Android doesnt even use Java compiler or Java bytecode. Get a clue about what youre talking about before posting in support of patent trolls.

Regardless if Java is a language or not, the complaint by Oracle is for using the Java run time. If you can provide any company that uses the Sun/Oracle Java and not have to pay royalties, provide them. Microsoft had to pay, no company is gonna win the right to use the Java runtime and not pay Oracle...

Microsoft required to pay too...
[link removed since I'm a new user and can't post links]

Please provide you list of companies using the Java run time in a commercial app and not paying royalties. If you do contact Oracle as well, guaranteed Oracle would go after them too.

Did you read the article you posted? If you did, you need to re-read it; Microsoft paid "0 Million". In the end, they just stopped including java with windows, forcing users to download it themselves, and cutting the profits from Java considerably.

There are lots of companies that use Java and pay for it...but they use Oracle tools to do it rather than writing the stuff themselves, and they charge people money for their software. Freeware Java stuff (like android) does not need to pay...that is the only reason that freeware java stuff exists, and there wouldnt be any Java stuff at all if not for the developers starting on freeware projects.

The dumbest thing Sun ever did with Java was to force Microsoft to remove it from Windows...now Oracle owns the Java name and they want it removed from Android...the ONE platform that still uses it for anything but homebrew, hacker tools, and programming tools for other languages? They need to just end support for Java...they are never going to make any money on it and if they would just let it die, no one else would use it either...so no more lawsuits draining funds from the corporate accounts to protect something that no one pays for anyway.


My point wasnt that m1cro$oft had to pay anything, but get permission, and when i was working at MS at the time there was also an agreement to pay Sun some money and agree to some licensing terms which in turn would be a monetary value although no money changed hands.

But my point is M$ still got permission from Sun for Java, which i was refuting people saying java is a language and not copyrightable and no one needs to pay anything to Sun. What ever deal M$ and sun worked out was agreeable to Sun, the owner of java, that is my point.


The difference between what M$ did and what Google is doing, is M$ was still calling their stuff Java (while adding their own M$-only extensions: part of M$s embrace, extend, and extinguish strategy). Google does not claim Android is a Java platform. Google only uses the Java syntax (again, syntax is not patentable or copyrightable) and the Apache Harmony open source Java SE class library, and the rest is custom code developed by Google or open source code.

1410.7.2011 21:50

Build a better mousetrap and the world will sue you for their slice of cheese!

1511.7.2011 13:14

Screw Oracle! Their products are slow, convoluted, bulky and Oracle execs are greedy pricks! End of story.

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