Originally posted by Jlhfit:

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Its dropping price to attract more customers.... Cant keep up with blue ray

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at the moment HD-DVD is winning the format war!

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Quote:

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at the moment HD-DVD is winning the format war!

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Really, I thought Blu-Ray was winning.

Oh well, I would rather HD-DVD win. Especially with their prices on everything being lower.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Buyer Be aware Toshiba's second gen HD-A2 HD DVD is a discontinue model this is a Fire sale this is over stock Toshiba trying to get rid of this is why it took Wal-mart so long to get this player as everyone know Wal-Mart is cheap as hell.

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- LMAO

Is that the best you can manage?

The HD A2 is a superb player and a total bargain at this price.

It's also fully warrantied with an excellent reputation from it's current owners (as can be seen on the avsforums & avforums).

Yeah folks, no-one ever bother go getting a brand new, boxed, bargain end-of-line model of anything, just "beware".
FFS.
Typical laughable nonsense from the Blu-ray fanclub.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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When it come to buying Hi def content you get what you pay for.

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- OK then so what aren't people getting?
(You might want to recheck your facts cos you're already obviously wrong about the output resolution)

What big differences are there between the HD A2 & the HD A3?

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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If your really interested in buying a HD-DVD player Buy a HD-A3 -- is due to hit stores November 1 with a list price of $299 Full HD.

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- "Full HD"?!

Jeeez here we go, more of that ridiculous 1080p BS?!

Don't you realise that the over-whelming majority of HD TVs out there (by far) are 720p/1080i?
Don't you realise that trying to push 1080p on those owners is simply ripping them off?

Besides you're completely wrong.

The HD A3 is a 720p/1080i player.......and you can bet your house that just like the HD A2 the RRP will be a lot higher than the street price.

As soon as the HD A2s are gone the HD A3 will be down to around the $200 level too.

Their are countless sources that will confirm with a good de-interlacer in the tv you will be hard pressed to see the difference in an i or p video signal.

Quote:

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It's Deinterlacing, Not Scaling
HD DVD and Blu-ray content is 1080p/24. If your player outputs a 60-Hz signal (that is, one that your TV can display), the player is adding (creating) the 3:2 sequence. So, whether you output 1080i or 1080p, it is still inherently the same information. The only difference is in whether the player interlaces it and your TV deinterlaces it, or if the player just sends out the 1080p signal directly. If the TV correctly deinterlaces 1080i, then there should be no visible difference between deinterlaced 1080i and direct 1080p (even with that extra step). There is no new information—nor is there more resolution, as some people think. This is because, as you can see in Figure 1, there is no new information with the progressive signal. It's all based on the same original 24 frames per second.

In the case of Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray player, the player interlaces the image and then deinterlaces it to create 1080p. So, you get that step regardless.

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So don't count this player out for that spec alone.

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Originally posted by nynja:

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Max output 1080i. I love how getting specs on HD-DVD players are like trying to pull a semi with dental floss.

If you have an HDTV with 1080p support, I would recommend you either pick up an HD-DVD player with 1080p support (if you can find one) for the extra cash or get the cheaper PS3 version that will run at $399 - which is probably one of the best Blu Ray players on the market. People complain about the Blue Tooth remote, but you realize how much better it is to not worry about pointing the remote at your unit and being able to control your player from just about anywhere in the house.

FYI - ALL Blu Ray players support 1080p. Have to say that I use a PS3 for my HD movies and it upscales DVD to full 1080p via HDMI, has many video play back options (this is a Sony product), media center options (video & music streaming) and regular firmware updates which are VERY easy to perform once connected to the Internet. I use my PS3 to listen to music ALL the time. It has some of the best HD sound available on the market. Oh, and PS3 supports your rewritable DVDs, unlike this player. Are you really saving money if you have to repurchase all those discs?

Having an HDTV with 1080p support and getting a media player to only output to 1080i is like having a Ferrari or Lamborghini but never being allowed to drive it on an autobahn.

Just my 2 cents.

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You do understand that the average consumer would never be able to tell the difference between 1080i and p? Some of you get way too technical, for the average movie watcher (myself included) this is great!

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FYI - You like to waste money? I own an HDTV with 1080p support. Why in the hell am I going to buy an HD system that can't output to the max resolution of my TV? That's just stupid. I might as well trade in my TV for a cheaper model and downgrade my picture quality, right?

I am informing those who ALREADY OWN their HDTVs that support 1080p. You spent all that money on it, then you're going to invest in a player that won't even get the full use out of it? Seems kinda lame to me.

I had an HDTV with 1080i max support. I got tired of the blured image when watching videos that had fast motion - HDTVs are purchased for the sharp resolution, this just voids that. When your screen is larger than 34 inches, it becomes more and more visible. I can see the difference, just because the average consumer cannot tell the difference does not mean they should not be told the difference.

Everyone who owns an HDTV with 1080p support wants that full support from their player, they should know before they buy. For those who can only output to a max of 720p/1080i then the only difference from BluRay and HD-DVD is the audio and movie selection. Most movies I prefer are found on BluRay, some on HD-DVD but not the ones I can't live without.

As for finding detailed specs on HD-DVD players, it took me over 3 minutes to find on the Internet - while BluRay only took 1 search attempt.

If you can't see the point of my post, then go buy your $199 under powered HD player that cannot output to your $2000 TV's full potentual.

If you want to pretend there's a huge difference (nevermind any actual real difference) between 1080p and 1080i on most people's 1080p TVs then go ahead.

But the truth is that for many it makes not the slightest bit of difference and many find 1080p to be simply yet more marketing gibberish.

Still, if it's worthwhile 'bling' to you then work away, pay double the price for something you claim to genuinely 'see', it's a free country

(cos you have done back to back tests, right?
Sure you have.)

.....and of course the fact that this is only the entry-level HD DVD player which can turn in such an excellent performance seems to have escaped you too.

For most people's TVs not only is this level of output all they need (cos they only have 720p/1080i HD TVs) but even for people with 1080p TVs it is well known as an excellent performing high def DVD player.

(and if you honestly want to claim it took you 3 minutes to find the HD A2s specs when they are there plain as day at the top of the Toshiba web site page for it, they are on the 1st page of the Amazon page for it, they are on the one and only PC World page on it and on the first page of the Home Theatre blog then something is very wrong.

Where did you look?)

Originally posted by hughjars:

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If you want to pretend there's a huge difference (nevermind any actual real difference) between 1080p and 1080i on most people's 1080p TVs then go ahead.

But the truth is that for many it makes not the slightest bit of difference and many find 1080p to be simply yet more marketing gibberish.

Still, if it's worthwhile 'bling' to you then work away, pay double the price for something you claim to genuinely 'see', it's a free country

(cos you have done back to back tests, right?
Sure you have.)

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Yup - as I said before, got tired of the blurred picture. Also:

If you can't see the point of my post, then go buy your $199 under powered HD player that cannot output to your $2000 TV's full potentual.

Sure.

That's about as credible as your claim it took you 3 minutes to find the specs that showed that the HD A2 is 1080i.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Sure.

That's about as credible as your claim it took you 3 minutes to find the specs that showed that the HD A2 is 1080i.

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Yup. 3 minutes give or take a few seconds, while I found the BluRay specs on my first search attempt. Reason for this? HD-DVD is not going to advertise on the front page that it's max resolution support is in-superior to it's competitors.

Marketing, my man (or woman).

Originally posted by nynja:

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Yup. 3 minutes give or take a few seconds, while I found the BluRay specs on my first search attempt. Reason for this? HD-DVD is not going to advertise on the front page that it's max resolution support is in-superior to it's competitors.

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- Why are you even bothering to try and spin this tale?

I already pointed out that a quick Google shows (all on the 1st page) that they are there plain as day at

- (1) the top of the Toshiba web site page for it (surely the first place to look?),

- (2) they are on the 1st page of the Amazon sales page for it (only the world's largest on-line retailer, another obvious place to look),

- (3) they are on the one and only PC World page on it (one of the more obvious specialist websites) and

- (4) on the first page of the Home Theatre blog (another obvious specialist website)

- If someone is trying to hide them then they sure as hell are making a laughable job of it.......but then a moments though shows it is really your initial claim about this that is the joke.

Either you are staggeringly inept at finding the most easily found info and are quick to claim conspiracy or you are telling tall tales.
I suspect the latter.

Originally posted by nynja:

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Marketing, my man (or woman).

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- Man.

I suspect you maybe are but you're not doing it too well.

The rush to appeal to high price ticket 'snob-value' was way to blunt and unsubtle for a start.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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If you want to pretend there's a huge difference (nevermind any actual real difference) between 1080p and 1080i on most people's 1080p TVs then go ahead.

But the truth is that for many it makes not the slightest bit of difference and many find 1080p to be simply yet more marketing gibberish.

Still, if it's worthwhile 'bling' to you then work away, pay double the price for something you claim to genuinely 'see', it's a free country

(cos you have done back to back tests, right?
Sure you have.)

.....and of course the fact that this is only the entry-level HD DVD player which can turn in such an excellent performance seems to have escaped you too.

For most people's TVs not only is this level of output all they need (cos they only have 720p/1080i HD TVs) but even for people with 1080p TVs it is well known as an excellent performing high def DVD player.

(and if you honestly want to claim it took you 3 minutes to find the HD A2s specs when they are there plain as day at the top of the Toshiba web site page for it, they are on the 1st page of the Amazon page for it, they are on the one and only PC World page on it and on the first page of the Home Theatre blog then something is very wrong.

Where did you look?)

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Great post, Most LCD are coming standard 1080p now so i wouldn't waste my money to downgrade on this cheap player.Also the upscaling isn't one of the best on this model hd-dvd player its the HD-A3 that has the best upscaling.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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If there is almost no difference, then why is it there?

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- Can you say 'marketing' and 'invented premium features'?

What do you mean "why is it there"?

Do you think every 'feature' advertised to you is genuine and real or something?!

Originally posted by vinny13:

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I have a 1080i HDTV, and I see a big difference.

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- .....and this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

You have a 1080i TV and yet you reckon you see "a big difference" when you feed it 1080p.

Those advertising guys just laugh, lick their lips and hope there are so many more like you out there waiting to be parted from your cash so easily.

Originally posted by Hughjars:

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- Can you say 'marketing' and 'invented premium features'?

What do you mean "why is it there"?

Do you think every 'feature' advertised to you is genuine and real or something?!

"
- .....and this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

You have a 1080i TV and yet you reckon you see "a big difference" when you feed it 1080p.

Those advertising guys just laugh, lick their lips and hope there are so many more like you out there waiting to be parted from your cash so easily.

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How he hell do you feed a 1080i TV with 1080p?

I'm talkin' about when comparing my 1080i TV to a 1080p TV, I see a big difference.

Now you're just putting words in people's mouths... again.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by vinny13:

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If there is almost no difference, then why is it there?

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- Can you say 'marketing' and 'invented premium features'?

What do you mean "why is it there"?

Do you think every 'feature' advertised to you is genuine and real or something?!

Originally posted by vinny13:

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I have a 1080i HDTV, and I see a big difference.

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- .....and this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

You have a 1080i TV and yet you reckon you see "a big difference" when you feed it 1080p.

Those advertising guys just laugh, lick their lips and hope there are so many more like you out there waiting to be parted from your cash so easily.

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Trust me there is a difference between 1080i & 1080p.1080p has better clarity & brightness.1080p your whites are really whites & Blacks also 1080i the Black & White levels are below 1080p.Visit any AV retailer & do a side by side comparison.Why do you think all 3rd gen & beyond HD-DVD players now have 1080p support ?

Originally posted by vinny13:

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How he hell do you feed a 1080i TV with 1080p?

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- It's not hard, just leave the output going to the TV @ 1080p and force the TV to make the adjustments itself.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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I'm talkin' about when comparing my 1080i TV to a 1080p TV, I see a big difference.

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- I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that maybe the difference is with the TVs themselves and not the resolution(s)?

.....or were both TVs properly or perfectly calibrated to make comparison valid.
Yeah, sure.

But besides, the issue here is not the difference between a 720p/1080i and a 1080p HD TV (tho it's worth noting that right now many in the trade are saying the 720p/1080i plasma is the best out of all of them ).

We were discussing how most 1080p HD TVs handle a 1080i image (cos in an attempt to slam this - good - HD DVD news some of the PS3/Blu-ray fanclub here felt that they had to express an opinion that because of that little 'i' it had to be cr@p compared to a player outputting 'p'.

......and as umteen reviews show it simply isn't that simple or necessarily true..

Originally posted by vinny13:

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Now you're just putting words in people's mouths... again.

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- No, you're just quibbling, being ambiguous & trolling for a response, again.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Trust me

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- LMAO.
You think you're the only one who has had a 1080i TV and now has a 1080p TV or something?!

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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there is a difference between 1080i & 1080p.1080p has better clarity & brightness.

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- Nextgen if you don't know what you're talking about it's best not to get into this kind of stuff.

There is a newer standard of colour (deep colour) but that is nothing to do with screen resolution.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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1080p your whites are really whites & Blacks also

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- Actually contrast between whites, greys and deep blacks are something most LCD TVs are still pretty rubbish at.

That's why they brought out this utterly bogus 'dynamic contrast' BS so that the spec-sheet jockey idiots could talk themselves into believing what the marketing & advertising depts wanted them to 'think'.

Read this (from Oct 2007) to see the lies & the truth about contrast ratios -

Sony Bravia KDL-40D3000 - claimed contrast ratio 1600:1; 'dynamic contrast ratio 8000:1 actual independently tested & measured contrast ratio 569:1

Samsung LE-40M86BD - claimed contrast ratio *no 'regular figure given*; dynamic contrast ratio 15000:1 actual independently tested & measured contrast ratio 1660:1

Toshiba 42X3030D - claimed contrast ratio 6000:1; dynamic contrast ratio 10000:1 actual independently tested & measured contrast ratio 634:1

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/LCD-TVs-42-inches,review-29705.html

- If only people were a little better informed & a tad less gullible.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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1080i the Black & White levels are below 1080p.

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- No that's simply utter rubbish.
A screen or panel's contrast levels have absolutely nothing to do with the screen resolution.
Wake up.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Visit any AV retailer & do a side by side comparison.

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- Yeah right.
Visit any TV sales guy and watch him try and sell you the TV with the higher margin, wow, what an amazing concept.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Why do you think all 3rd gen & beyond HD-DVD players now have 1080p support ?

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- Why is it that you can always be relied upon to get stuff completely wrong.

The gen 3 Toshiba HD A3 is a 720p/1080i player; see the (easily found) specs here -
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A3-720p...r/dp/B000U62N1S

Lol hughjars, when I am in the market for anything hi def I am for sure going to get some recommendations from you!

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Originally posted by svtstang:

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Lol hughjars, when I am in the market for anything hi def I am for sure going to get some recommendations from you!

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- Yeah well the whole thing revolves around trying to read up on as much as you can (especially from the actual owners on things like the avsforums and avforums).
You can spot the fanboys a mile away when you're dealing with serious people cos the serious people want to know the whole story, not take a side to support like a damned football team.

But wading through the twisting, spinning advertising BS is a tough job.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Sony Bravia KDL-40D3000 - claimed contrast ratio 1600:1; 'dynamic contrast ratio 8000:1 actual measured contrast ratio 569:1

Samsung LE-40M86BD - claimed contrast ratio *no 'regular figure given*; dynamic contrast ratio 15000:1 actual measured contrast ratio 1660:1

Toshiba 42X3030D - claimed contrast ratio 6000:1; dynamic contrast ratio 10000:1 actual measured contrast ratio 634:1

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LOL... you proved my point you don't know what the hell your talking about on every LCD set you can't measure the contrast ratio because each retailer has different terms & standards for contrast ratio.You can't compare any LCD set by contrast or Dynamic ratio rookie.Seems to me your less informed.

Originally posted by svtstang:

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Lol hughjars, when I am in the market for anything hi def I am for sure going to get some recommendations from you!

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coming from someone that don't even own a 1080p or 1080i set & use a 360 add-on hooked up to a PC i find laughable.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Yeah well the whole thing revolves around trying to read up on as much as you can (especially from the actual owners on things like the avsforums and avforums).

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Your trying to correct someone by doing research on the net give me a break.I own this stuff & get out & do research i don't depend on the net for info.

BTW if you can hold out & you are an American with a Sears near you the Toshiba HD A3 is going even lower for Black Friday

$169.99

See Black Fridat ad (scroll down to Home Theatre & Toshiba HD DVD player -

http://www.blackfriday.info/ads/sears-black-friday-ad.html

- In the light of this I'd say it looks like $149 for X-mas (at least with the (gen 3 based) Chinese Venturer is a certainty.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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LOL... you proved my point you don't know what the hell your talking about on every LCD set you can't measure the contrast ratio because each retailer has different terms & standards for contrast ratio.

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- You must have missed the bit where they measured each set with the same kit.
You are simply completely wrong to imagine that a TV set's contrast cannot be properly measured independently with proper testing gear by professional reviewing staff (don't be so absurd).

You fail. Badly.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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coming from someone that don't even own a 1080p or 1080i set & use a 360 add-on hooked up to a PC i find laughable.

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- You dont know which HD TV I own actually.

Fail again.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Your trying to correct someone by doing research on the net give me a break.

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- No, I read umteen articles and talk to owners.

This little attack isn't going too well, eh?

Fail again.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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I own this stuff & get out & do research i don't depend on the net for info.

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- Sure you do, how could I ever have mistaken you on this when your post are so full of accurate and useful comment?

LMAO.

God I love this thread, pure entertainment!

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@svtstang and hughjars
Thank you very much. Keep proving him wrong, I love it.

Lol morguex, I am a hi def noob, the creature we refer to as fanboy is amazing to me though. Hughjars is doing great though, and despite the battle over nothing I am picking up a thing or two :)

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Nextgen76, not to argue with you but could you describe why a progressive signal would have a better contrast ratio than interlaced. With the same cables I don't see how either would make a difference in color or contrast. As for the I or P as a source thing do what you want anybody. If you can see the difference more power to you. With a 1080p tv you are not going to see a difference in detail if you have a good de-interlacer. Contrast would be new to me as I haven't notice that myself yet (between my or any of my friends sets). People just like to justify the money they spend.

Quote:

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Originally posted by nynja:

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Yup. 3 minutes give or take a few seconds, while I found the BluRay specs on my first search attempt. Reason for this? HD-DVD is not going to advertise on the front page that it's max resolution support is in-superior to it's competitors.

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- Why are you even bothering to try and spin this tale?

I already pointed out that a quick Google shows (all on the 1st page) that they are there plain as day at

- (1) the top of the Toshiba web site page for it (surely the first place to look?),

- (2) they are on the 1st page of the Amazon sales page for it (only the world's largest on-line retailer, another obvious place to look),

- (3) they are on the one and only PC World page on it (one of the more obvious specialist websites) and

- (4) on the first page of the Home Theatre blog (another obvious specialist website)

- If someone is trying to hide them then they sure as hell are making a laughable job of it.......but then a moments though shows it is really your initial claim about this that is the joke.

Either you are staggeringly inept at finding the most easily found info and are quick to claim conspiracy or you are telling tall tales.
I suspect the latter.

Originally posted by nynja:

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Marketing, my man (or woman).

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- Man.

I suspect you maybe are but you're not doing it too well.

The rush to appeal to high price ticket 'snob-value' was way to blunt and unsubtle for a start.

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You found the technical specs on Amazon? Really? And where was this? Because I had the hardest time finding it, which was part of the 'wasted' time just trying to find the specs. Then I resorted going to the Toshiba site, where I had to poke around to find the details. Once I found the right page, no it did not take 3 minutes. From the start of my initial search, visiting Amazon, then Toshiba's website - YES. 3 minutes. Relax man, not everyone checks the same place every time. Why are you getting so bent out of shape about how long it took to find this info?

When I go to an online retailer about Blu Ray specs, they are much easier to find that any HD-DVD player I had checked out.

ITS NOT A BIG DEAL. The BIG DEAL is that you don't realize that people who paid for HDTVs supporting 1080p should know whether or not the 'HD' unit they are purchasing will output in the highest resolution their TV supports. Common sense, man.

Fact is, everyone I know who is into HD -WANTS- 1080p support. If you cannot tell the difference between 1080i & 1080p, then you will have no issues with the cheaper model HD-DVD players. I can see the difference when there is fast moving action on the screen - and when a TV is supposed to have sharp, crisp images this only disappoints. DVD up scaling is nice, but not the all-end solution. I intend on upgrading my movie library, but with the Blu Ray format.

If I pay for 1080p support - I want 1080p support.

It will get even lower you will just have to wait.