Quote:

---

Ever heard of Beta? Sony was behind that too, the company has a track record for pushing products that aren't competitive enough in price, and Sony quality isn't even very far above average, the price is mostly brand name and advertising. I always have a laugh when a Sony ad comes on all full of colour spruiking how great the colours look in HD. I wish my TV could look that good... Hey, this is my TV! And it does look that good! I think we're beginning to see Blu-Ray turn into Beta-Ray.

---

LMAO!!!same thing i think with those kind of ad's!!!!

Stop calling people fags, have some respect. And 1080p upscaling isn't the same as 1080p. When I get a new 1080p TV (hopefully boxing day, or Super Bowl weekend), I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

Quote:

---

all blu-ray players put out 1080p so really blu-ray is the format that makes all the players equal in quality.

---

Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray player interlaces the image and then deinterlaces it to create 1080p. So, you get that step regardless.

all i ave to say is that the format was seems to be commin to an end with hd dvd players droppin their prices and bluray only bein a pain in the azz

Quote:

---

Originally posted by camaro17:

---

haven't you ever heard "be the best, not the cheapest"?

---

While that be the best option,a LOT of people prefer the cheapest price that they can get (and note I didn't said "afford", because they can, but they won´t) even if that means getting a device that may not be the best or even decent (i´m talking about products in general, not the Toshiba player in particular)I work in a retail store and even when I recomend several options (I sell Computers, BTW) a lot of people go for the cheapest one, even when I explain to them the features that better models offer and that in the long run,it will be a better investment. most of the consumers see the difference and do a better choice or wait for a newer model, but still there´s just a lot of people that choose money over quality.

This will put HD-Dvd ahead on this race, but the end is still unable to be seen, funny will be if just after a winner it´s declared we see a new third format.

---

actually there is a third format VMD but there hasnt been any news or any stats on how much they sell but probably very few.this is the first of many victories for the hd-dvd and congratulations to toshiba.i prefer blu-ray more but it doesnt matter.people say drm but that will be cracked so thats not really an arguement.if microsoft put hd-dvd in their consoles they wouldve won but they didnt take a risk and waited for sony to make a move.so thats where they faulted.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

---

if microsoft put hd-dvd in their consoles they wouldve won but they didnt take a risk and waited for sony to make a move.so thats where they faulted.

---

not really. just look at the sales of the HD-DVD addon for 360, its not selling well. That tells me that gamers don't give a crap about hi-def movies. MS was smart to not include HD-DVD. As a result, they focused more on the games and sold the console at a lower price. win win for gamers.

PS3 would have done so much better if they left out Blu-Ray

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

Stop calling people fags, have some respect. And 1080p upscaling isn't the same as 1080p. When I get a new 1080p TV (hopefully boxing day, or Super Bowl weekend), I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

---

Thank you, I agree, real 1080p is better that upscaling

and @ club42, im gonna interlace my fist with your face joking lol

Peace

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

---

if microsoft put hd-dvd in their consoles they wouldve won but they didnt take a risk and waited for sony to make a move.so thats where they faulted.

---

not really. just look at the sales of the HD-DVD addon for 360, its not selling well. That tells me that gamers don't give a crap about hi-def movies. MS was smart to not include HD-DVD. As a result, they focused more on the games and sold the console at a lower price. win win for gamers.

PS3 would have done so much better if they left out Blu-Ray

---

I see it the other way around. Say MS did put the HDDVD drive standard on their 360s, don't you think people would say "hey! I don't need to buy X HD-DVD player for X dollars because I have one on my 360!"? I bet HD-DVD would have better sales if MS took that route, especially since the sales for the 360 are pretty good. Now say HD-DVD wins the format war. People would be more prone to buy a 360 over a PS3 due to the fact that it would double as an HD-DVD player. They see it as killing two birds with one stone.

This is why sony went with the whole blu-ray medium. It is a very risky move on their part, and so far isnt looking good for them (sales wise) but if BD wins the format war expect to see the sales for PS3s rise in great numbers, and also, Sony will go down in the books for taking one of the biggest risks and having it pay off in a huge way.

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

---

We've already seen Halo 3, Bioshock and Mass Effect is around the corner for 360. Every magazine and review refers to these as killer apps, but I don't see anything comparable yet for PS3. BTW, all of the 360's now have HDMI, even the cheap Arcade bundle, but for the price of the new HD-DVD players, you may be better off getting one of those, unless you plan to hook the 360 HD player up to your PC via USB, which makes it more versatile than a PS3 IMHO. You can easily see if the 360 you're buying has HDMI or not, because the logo is right on the box.

damn, you guys hear about the AVS HD section forums being shut down??
some people took it a little too far over there..
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9812929-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

---

if microsoft put hd-dvd in their consoles they wouldve won but they didnt take a risk and waited for sony to make a move.so thats where they faulted.

---

not really. just look at the sales of the HD-DVD addon for 360, its not selling well. That tells me that gamers don't give a crap about hi-def movies. MS was smart to not include HD-DVD. As a result, they focused more on the games and sold the console at a lower price. win win for gamers.

PS3 would have done so much better if they left out Blu-Ray

---

I see it the other way around. Say MS did put the HDDVD drive standard on their 360s, don't you think people would say "hey! I don't need to buy X HD-DVD player for X dollars because I have one on my 360!"? I bet HD-DVD would have better sales if MS took that route, especially since the sales for the 360 are pretty good. Now say HD-DVD wins the format war. People would be more prone to buy a 360 over a PS3 due to the fact that it would double as an HD-DVD player. They see it as killing two birds with one stone.

This is why sony went with the whole blu-ray medium. It is a very risky move on their part, and so far isnt looking good for them (sales wise) but if BD wins the format war expect to see the sales for PS3s rise in great numbers, and also, Sony will go down in the books for taking one of the biggest risks and having it pay off in a huge way.

---

i agree with you..if BD wins then PS3 sales will go up, ill buy one for sure.. if HD DVD wins i think its possible Microsoft will release a 360 w/ built in HD drive..

@Riotard
Cool it on the fag refernences - totally not needed or allowed here at all. Since you've been warned b/4 about this take a 2 day break on me.

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI

---

LOL, could you please list that current stellar line-up that PS3 has over 360? I haven't seen a single game from PS3 that even comes close to Gears of War, BioShock or Halo 3 (and that's only naming three) And all 360's selling now has HDMI thank you.

Blu ray is already dead !

i am sony fan , but i support hd dvd if they can make price cheap for everybody

i am sony fan , but i support hd dvd if they can make price cheap for everybody

Originally posted by camaro17:

---

haven't you ever heard "be the best, not the cheapest"?

---

Yes I have the trouble is if its at a 2X premium no one will buy it thus you do not get any profit from it thus making the point of the product moot at best, illrevlent at worst.

BR can only sustain itself at 50% or higher than the price of BR, BR will lose if it can not offer cheap prices.

Sony is blindly tryign to gain rolyists off of BR to the point of selling off other assets to stay in the fight but it will be all for naught if they do not lower the prices.

------------------------------
When they get the stock of these sold the cheapest HDVD players will be in the 150 range as far as I hear, thus giving BR time to try and counter this in the coming months.

Quote:

---

club42, im gonna interlace my fist with your face joking lol

---

Lol glad you liked my comment.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

---

We've already seen Halo 3, Bioshock and Mass Effect is around the corner for 360. Every magazine and review refers to these as killer apps, but I don't see anything comparable yet for PS3. BTW, all of the 360's now have HDMI, even the cheap Arcade bundle, but for the price of the new HD-DVD players, you may be better off getting one of those, unless you plan to hook the 360 HD player up to your PC via USB, which makes it more versatile than a PS3 IMHO. You can easily see if the 360 you're buying has HDMI or not, because the logo is right on the box.

---

Right now i get sick of people wanting to compare 360 games til PS3 games lets judge what 360 had this time last year nothing.This time last year 360 didn't have one killer app on the market til Gears of War(Nov06).Sony now has two Heavenly Sword & RFOM & with Uncharted & Haze coming real soon.If you had to choose what would you take Bioshock,Mass effect or Killzone 2 & MGS4 nobrainer give me the two Sony exclusive.Sony lineup is going to get Stronger starting this Holiday season 360 not.360 owners don't have any killer app they honestly can say they are looking forward to after Mass effect.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

---

We've already seen Halo 3, Bioshock and Mass Effect is around the corner for 360. Every magazine and review refers to these as killer apps, but I don't see anything comparable yet for PS3. BTW, all of the 360's now have HDMI, even the cheap Arcade bundle, but for the price of the new HD-DVD players, you may be better off getting one of those, unless you plan to hook the 360 HD player up to your PC via USB, which makes it more versatile than a PS3 IMHO. You can easily see if the 360 you're buying has HDMI or not, because the logo is right on the box.

---

Right now i get sick of people wanting to compare 360 games til PS3 games lets judge what 360 had this time last year nothing.This time last year 360 didn't have one killer app on the market til Gears of War(Nov06).Sony now has two Heavenly Sword & RFOM & with Uncharted & Haze coming real soon.If you had to choose what would you take Bioshock,Mass effect or Killzone 2 & MGS4 nobrainer give me the two Sony exclusive.Sony lineup is going to get Stronger starting this Holiday season 360 not.360 owners don't have any killer app they honestly can say they are looking forward to after Mass effect.

---

and mass effect is about the only note worthy title not on the PC, the 360 is nice but frankly with the media/hardware locks and the high fail rate and the high price it, the 360 is not that great, the PS3 is even worse IMO no games, over priced and begin hacked to death to save money it will have games but with the time needed to build them it wont have many and thos it will have will be ports or hash jobs..and a hand full of good games that wont make it worth the 500$ price tag....

the WII is worth its price both the 360 and PS3 fail to own up to theirs...

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

---

We've already seen Halo 3, Bioshock and Mass Effect is around the corner for 360. Every magazine and review refers to these as killer apps, but I don't see anything comparable yet for PS3. BTW, all of the 360's now have HDMI, even the cheap Arcade bundle, but for the price of the new HD-DVD players, you may be better off getting one of those, unless you plan to hook the 360 HD player up to your PC via USB, which makes it more versatile than a PS3 IMHO. You can easily see if the 360 you're buying has HDMI or not, because the logo is right on the box.

---

Right now i get sick of people wanting to compare 360 games til PS3 games lets judge what 360 had this time last year nothing.This time last year 360 didn't have one killer app on the market til Gears of War(Nov06).Sony now has two Heavenly Sword & RFOM & with Uncharted & Haze coming real soon.If you had to choose what would you take Bioshock,Mass effect or Killzone 2 & MGS4 nobrainer give me the two Sony exclusive.Sony lineup is going to get Stronger starting this Holiday season 360 not.360 owners don't have any killer app they honestly can say they are looking forward to after Mass effect.

---

and mass effect is about the only note worthy title not on the PC, the 360 is nice but frankly with the media/hardware locks and the high fail rate and the high price it, the 360 is not that great, the PS3 is even worse IMO no games, over priced and begin hacked to death to save money it will have games but with the time needed to build them it wont have many and thos it will have will be ports or hash jobs..and a hand full of good games that wont make it worth the 500$ price tag....

the WII is worth its price both the 360 and PS3 fail to own up to theirs...

---

Zippy lets not forget that the Wii is lacking in games also & don't have one Killer app for that system which a lot of Wii fanboys are starting to get pissed.Plus a lot of Wii owner feel that Nintendo hasn't use the motion sensing to its full advantage yet.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by vinny13:

---

I'll be getting a PS3 because I think it has a better line-up of games then 360 and I won't have to buy the attachment and be depressed because the 360 probably won't have HDMI(not to much restocking around here for the newer models).

---

We've already seen Halo 3, Bioshock and Mass Effect is around the corner for 360. Every magazine and review refers to these as killer apps, but I don't see anything comparable yet for PS3. BTW, all of the 360's now have HDMI, even the cheap Arcade bundle, but for the price of the new HD-DVD players, you may be better off getting one of those, unless you plan to hook the 360 HD player up to your PC via USB, which makes it more versatile than a PS3 IMHO. You can easily see if the 360 you're buying has HDMI or not, because the logo is right on the box.

---

Right now i get sick of people wanting to compare 360 games til PS3 games lets judge what 360 had this time last year nothing.This time last year 360 didn't have one killer app on the market til Gears of War(Nov06).Sony now has two Heavenly Sword & RFOM & with Uncharted & Haze coming real soon.If you had to choose what would you take Bioshock,Mass effect or Killzone 2 & MGS4 nobrainer give me the two Sony exclusive.Sony lineup is going to get Stronger starting this Holiday season 360 not.360 owners don't have any killer app they honestly can say they are looking forward to after Mass effect.

---

and mass effect is about the only note worthy title not on the PC, the 360 is nice but frankly with the media/hardware locks and the high fail rate and the high price it, the 360 is not that great, the PS3 is even worse IMO no games, over priced and begin hacked to death to save money it will have games but with the time needed to build them it wont have many and thos it will have will be ports or hash jobs..and a hand full of good games that wont make it worth the 500$ price tag....

the WII is worth its price both the 360 and PS3 fail to own up to theirs...

---

Zippy lets not forget that the Wii is lacking in games also & don't have one Killer app for that system which a lot of Wii fanboys are starting to get pissed.Plus a lot of Wii owner feel that Nintendo hasn't use the motion sensing to its full advantage yet.

---

True however it has enough to be worth 400$ the easy break oven and BR machine do not.
So while they mature in ahrdware and games the WII is the best choice or plop 400$ into your PC its better spent than on the 360 or PS3 at this point and time.

I think you guys are going a little too deep into the problem.
Most people buy cheap and it helps them watch better TV for now. Until the industry comes with new stuff they will be able to upgrade. No big loss will be noticed!

This dicussion got waaaaaay off topic of the original article

Pretty big number.

Is obvious Toshiba wants to generate more software sales this holiday season by losing on hardware, so the BR supporting movie studios can take another look at HD-DVD again.

Risky move, but it could work....

This will be great for all and is a very good move by the DVD Forum group. The retail season has been poor so far so maybe this will help kick it in the butt for the brick and mortar businesses.

With the game consoles it is much better having the HD-DVD unit attached via USB then in the unit. This means you can update it over time easily or even use a BD drive down the road if firmware updates follow. Also this made the 360 cheaper and for those who could careless about movies or whatever they don't need to waste money frivolously. I'm not a real Microsquish fan but this they did right.

Well toshiba is a good product and they do make a decent player so i am not surprised at this gain.