i knew this argument would develop..so did everyone else right?
well around in my 'circles' of friends and relatives HD DVD has been somewhat accepted, mainly cause of the lower prices

The PS3 factor is funny. I personally don't think it should be counted as a Blu-Ray player as it is a gaming console with the ability to play Blu-Ray movies.

Its funny how neither camp mentions the 360 HD DVD add-on. I personally am confused as to why HD DVD didn't include it in their statement. A friend of mine bought it because it "Got pretty good reviews and was the best dollar-for-dollar HD DVD player out when I got it". Last time I looked, which was about a month ago, he had 3 HD DVDs.

The only reason for the HD DVD add-on is to play HD DVD movies as no games are released on the format. Therefore, I would think including it in attachment rates would greatly boost the numbers for that camp.

Alas, its just more nit-picking between camps, much like always. I'll be happy when something wipes them both off the map.

Peace

Wow, first of all Stringer admits that the Blu-ray side have been lying through their teeth and admits that they actually haven't won f*ck all and now their European cheer-leader crys his eyes out that HD DVD are fighting back very effectively
(cos you don't really think they be gurning like this if they were still riding high, do you?).

Obviously Blu-ray have major problems, talk about a public climb-down.

Neither Walmart nor Amazon sales count on the Videoscan numbers so they can either keep on pretending & lying to their devoted fanclub only to be caught out later or start to make excuses as they come around to admitting the truth.

All is very far from well in Blu-land.

When Warner dump Blu-ray in Jan 2008 this is all over bar the shouting.

here we go again round 2,hd dvd vs bd dvd.

i don't care a dime i will wait till one format becomes industry standard.

i don't to waste my time figuring which is better,personally i like qaulity of bluray and price of hd dvd.

I don't see how BD could even feel comfortable including a gaming console into thier figures. It's not designed to be a stand alone BD player...it's a gaming console.

It is getting interesting how HD DVD and BD are now at the point where the mud slinging starts.

*sigh* can't wait for the format war to end.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Neither Walmart nor Amazon sales count on the Videoscan numbers

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Actually the Nielsen numbers include Amazon and other major online merchants:

http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org/docu..._whitepaper.pdf

Quote:

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Nielsen Video Scan (these numbers, while they include traditional on-line retailers such as Amazon, also include Specialty Mass Merchants including Costco, Best Buy, Circuit City. A significant portion of these sales, however, also encompass online – ie. Costco.com, BestBuy.com, etc…)

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http://www.people.hbs.edu/aelberse/papers/hbs_07-015.pdf

Quote:

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Our data come from Nielsen VideoScan, a leading provider of information on video sales. Nielsen VideoScan tracks weekly sales for video titles sold in the United States...They can also be broken down by channel: “discount mass stores” (e.g., Kmart, Shopko, and Target), “drug stores” (e.g., CVS, Rite Aid, and Walgreens), “grocery stores” (e.g., Abertson’s, Pathmark, and Safeway), “specialty retail” (e.g., Blockbuster, Hollywood Entertainment, and Suncoast), and “other mass stores,” which covers both offline (e.g., Best Buy, Circuit City, and Costco) and online stores (e.g., Amazon.com, and Borders.com).

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Amazon has traditionally been the best source for HDM pricewise.

good info error5. I agree that it is hard to put an attach rate to Blu as we dont know how many people use their PS3 as a movie player. I dont blame Toshiba for using the 20% that they had been. Sounds reasonable. I dont agree with using all of the PS3 #s. The only near real un-biased #s come from the Nielsen's. That is what I will go by. Would be nice to see Wal-Marts #s. I recon they would show the same raito.

For me attach rates are meaningless since they don't take into account those who have 2 or more players. I know people who are on their second or third HD DVD player. A lot of early adaptors on avsforum have multiple players. I think a few here like error5 and eatsushi who have both an A1 and an XA2. I would imagine they would only buy one copy of a movie. This will tend to underestimate actual attach rates.

Good point juankeer. I had only thought of the PS3 side of the attach rate problem. Had never thought of the HD DVD multi owner problem in figuring attach rates. To me, thats another reason for the attach rates to be misleading, no matter which side it causes a swing for. Disk sold are disk sold. Easy to understand that. No side can spin disk sold.

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Typically, the HD DVD group has dismissed the idea that a PS3 console can be accepted as a stand-alone Blu-ray player. However, in this particular case, leaving the PS3 in the figures benefited the HD DVD group, as most European PS3 owners bought it for games and not Blu-ray, and so would not buy movies, dramatically lowering the overall attach rate.

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What they say is that someone will buy a PS3 for playing games and HD-DVD player to watch movies...

For me this is a good sign that they are in a bad situation, and paramount is there last hope.
They preferred not to include 360's HDDVD players cause even with it they get worst results/overall rate.

I stand corrected on the Amazon point then error5, thanks for that.

I don't think I'm wrong on the matter of Walmart's sales tho am I?

(Walmart are the biggest retailer of them all too, right?)

Wal-mart does not count in the Nielsons. They tend to stock more Blu-Ray than HD DVD. A lot of Disney movies. So no Blu or HD DVD sales from Wal-Mart. BB and Amazon are considered to be the largest suppliers of HD material. Wal-Mart is the largest supplier of SD material.

Originally posted by glasssd:

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Wal-mart does not count in the Nielsons. They tend to stock more Blu-Ray than HD DVD. A lot of Disney movies. So no Blu or HD DVD sales from Wal-Mart. BB and Amazon are considered to be the largest suppliers of HD material. Wal-Mart is the largest supplier of SD material.

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You're exactly right glasssd. I doubt Walmart's HDM sales will have any real effect on the Neilsen numbers.

One thing to remember is that not all Walmart stores carry HDM's. The HDM's are mostly in their mega stores located in the larger urban/suburban areas. Their small-market stores don't carry HDM's.

Secondly, the selections available in the mega stores are limited to new and more popular titles. I'd estimate that they have 25% or less than what's available at Best Buy at least in the stores that I've been to. glasssd is also correct in saying that they tend to carry more BluRay titles. The Disney BD releases seem to be very popular. They do have humongous sections for SD DVD's most at bargain bin prices. The high def discs usually are at a small endcap or at an aisle display.

The third thing is HDM pricing. Several months ago Walmart's prices for new release HD DVD's (non-combo) and BD's averaged $25. Now Shrek 3rd and Ocean's 13 are $29.96. I'd say the prices now are practically the same as Best Buy which ticks me off. I doubt the typical WalMart shopper will be willing to collect titles at these current prices.

Their in-store prices are the same online:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8001952

We have 3 "Mega Wal-Marts" and 4 smaller stores within a 60 mile radius of where I live here in the midwest. I drove to all of them on the Friday that they had the $99 A2 sale. (I got 2 units for gifts.) They had no HD DVD players or movies in the smaller stores but they had the A2 in 2 of the 3 the megas. I think the other store was sold out.

Walmart may be the biggest retailer for SD DVD's but their HD section is still a work in progress. Right now amazon is still the place to go for HDM availability and reasonable pricing.

back and forth we continue to go. i am better than you etc... the two sides are like two kids fighting in the sand box over the same thing they are sittin in and playing with.