Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Once again there hughjars your wrong. The PS3 is a multi-media device. Thats the way any PS has been since the first originally released their systems on the market. It can be what you need or want it to be. The 360 is also another multi-media device. I dont know why you feel the need to discredit any and every thing with the PS3.

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Once again there hughjars your wrong. The PS3 is a multi-media device. Thats the way any PS has been since the first originally released their systems on the market. It can be what you need or want it to be. The 360 is also another multi-media device. I dont know why you feel the need to discredit any and every thing with the PS3.

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Also just to add to what i just said. Your wrong again. Mostly all the people i have seen and know on the PSN all are adults that own the PS3. There are young kids that own it but that are more on the lower end of users for this system. As i stated before I would respect what you have to say but your extreme bias nature is to funny. Just because your a adult and dont want a PS3 dont mean other adults dont either. If thats not what you meant then you sure as hell made it seem that way to me.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Originally posted by jagstilv :

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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Guess that means that all those PS3 owners are buying lots of BD movies, huh? Either way BD is outselling HD DVD by a large margin - do you have any neat sales figures on that? Idiot.

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at the moment blu-ray's are outselling hd-dvd's by a 3 to 1 margin but considering that there are in excess of 6 million blu-ray players and less than 1 million hd-dvd players its very sad.

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keep in mind that only about 35% of PS3 owners use thier system as a Blu-ray player. so you can count all 6 million, plus that 3 to 1 ratio is for the U.S. only and current u.s sales of the PS3 are about 3.7 million not 6

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Ohh ya your right, 1.3 million PS3 owners in america alone. you call that a small minority, still double what HD-DVD has. Its sad to see people prefer to watch thier High Def movies on a game oonsole prather then a stand alone HD-DVD player

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Quote:

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Ohh ya your right, 1.3 million PS3 owners in america alone. you call that a small minority, still double what HD-DVD has. Its sad to see people prefer to watch thier High Def movies on a game oonsole prather then a stand alone HD-DVD player

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I think they mad because Sony choose a good way to market BR by using the PS3 which is a selling attraction to PS fans. M$ hasnt jumped to either side thats why its not in the 360 as of yet. But if things keep progressing im certain they will. I'm not fanboy of any sort i own all the systems and play them according to what i feel like doing. Its just sad that we got people who are so caught up in this BS format war that they dont realise this is not a really a format war its a war with the consumer. You start off by using the media to hype and watch people go crazy over whats better and sit back and watch your profits grow. I would not be surprised if all owners of Sony and the HD camps are sitting around laughing sipping on that Yak right now.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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I think there's too much hair-splitting with the terminology here.

In my view a device that can do PLAYBACK of that particular format should be included in the numbers.

Case in point:

I have a Toshiba Qosimo laptop that has an HD DVD drive. I can watch HD DVD's on it. I can connect it to my HDTV and watch HD DVD's that way too. PLUS it's also great for other video and audio playback, surfing the net, offfice work and presentations, and guess what, I also play my favorite RTS games on it.

Should it be included in the numbers? I think so - together with the other PC's and Macs that have BluRay drives and burners in them.

I think they should do away with the standalone terminology and go with FORMAT PLAYBACK DEVICE instead. Then let's talk about numbers.

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Very good points there juankerr.

Any device that has even the smallest potential to increase your media sales has to be taken into account somehow. It doesn't matter if it's a dedicated player, a game console, an add-on, or a laptop computer, all these devices should be included in the whole equation.

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The strategy of including the BluRay drive in the PS3 is being mirrored by Toshiba in their inclusion of HD DVD drives in their laptops. It adds to the number of devices out in the wild that can increase sales of HD DVD movies even if their main purpose is running business/corporate software.

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This is the reason why Toshiba gave away 5 free movies for each HD DVD laptop sold in the UK recently.

Some of you people seem to have forgotten what the definition of "standalone" is:

A standalone device is able to function independently of other hardware. This means it is not integrated into another device.

Hmmmm, what does this mean?

It means that the PS3 is not a standalone and should not be included in the figures the BDA is comming up with. I think it belongs in a separate category in and of itself. Face it, Blu-Ray is on a piggyback ride with the PS3.

How bout dem' apples...

This post is a little off topic as it doesn't really discuss the virute or validity of the numbers as posted. But since articles like this tend to result in discussions that spiral downwards into the realm of 'who rules and who drools' (lol) it will fit in just nicely :-)


I think you will find that the Joe Average consumer has no favorites in this format war. What Average Joe wants is to watch a movie that (s)he wants to watch and to do it on a tv not a monitor screen.

People (both the tech savy and the Average Joe) I know are now debating/considering the purchase of players for both formats. Buying one player first and then following it up with the other format not so far down the road. Most don't care about the techie pros and cons like us card carrying members of the 'nerd herd' do. Most don't spell microsoft as M$ or as MicroShaft nor do they spout off about the evils of Sony's DRM, rootkit fiasco or anti-consumerist behavior. None of them argue and name call over press releases touting their numbers and superiority over the other format.

They buy one format and when they go to try to get a HD movie and find it is only offered in the other format they then fully realize that no matter which format they started with IF they want to watch all the movies they are interested in watching in HD they need both formats.

Arguing over why your choice is best, or is going to 'win' is just mental masturbation or pure fanboyism. You have your preferances (whatever they may be) and that's fine. Other people have their own preferences and that's fine too.

But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip-- or a life

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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I think there's too much hair-splitting with the terminology here.

In my view a device that can do PLAYBACK of that particular format should be included in the numbers.

Case in point:

I have a Toshiba Qosimo laptop that has an HD DVD drive. I can watch HD DVD's on it. I can connect it to my HDTV and watch HD DVD's that way too. PLUS it's also great for other video and audio playback, surfing the net, offfice work and presentations, and guess what, I also play my favorite RTS games on it.

Should it be included in the numbers? I think so - together with the other PC's and Macs that have BluRay drives and burners in them.

I think they should do away with the standalone terminology and go with FORMAT PLAYBACK DEVICE instead. Then let's talk about numbers.

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Very good points there juankerr.

Any device that has even the smallest potential to increase your media sales has to be taken into account somehow. It doesn't matter if it's a dedicated player, a game console, an add-on, or a laptop computer, all these devices should be included in the whole equation.

Quote:

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The strategy of including the BluRay drive in the PS3 is being mirrored by Toshiba in their inclusion of HD DVD drives in their laptops. It adds to the number of devices out in the wild that can increase sales of HD DVD movies even if their main purpose is running business/corporate software.

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This is the reason why Toshiba gave away 5 free movies for each HD DVD laptop sold in the UK recently.

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Yes, really good view on things, juankerr. Too bad the more bias fans on either side will fail to view it this way.

The game console's a game console's a game console. Get over it.

I could care less what PR advertising waffle you've bought into that the verdor has come up with to make you (or anyone else) feel good about buying a game console.

"Media centre". LMAO.

It's a game console.

It's also a Playstation game console and therefore is guaranteed to sell in the multi-millions (even if it is a bit of a flop in it's own market) and some of those owners will buy Blu-ray movies for it.

Like that was ever not going to happen.

It also turned out to be, for now, to be the better Blu-ray player (compared to most of the offerings currently available) so some adults in the a/v market bought one.

Big deal cos at heart they are not the bulk of the ownership or even a very large segment of the ownership (and if you want to dispute this & say that they are then, considering the dreadful retail movie disc attachment rates PS3 has, what does that say about it all, eh?).

Blu-ray is PS3 and like it or not PS3 is a game console.

Originally posted by duckNrun:

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This post is a little off topic as it doesn't really discuss the virute or validity of the numbers as posted. But since articles like this tend to result in discussions that spiral downwards into the realm of 'who rules and who drools' (lol) it will fit in just nicely :-)


I think you will find that the Joe Average consumer has no favorites in this format war. What Average Joe wants is to watch a movie that (s)he wants to watch and to do it on a tv not a monitor screen.

People (both the tech savy and the Average Joe) I know are now debating/considering the purchase of players for both formats. Buying one player first and then following it up with the other format not so far down the road. Most don't care about the techie pros and cons like us card carrying members of the 'nerd herd' do. Most don't spell microsoft as M$ or as MicroShaft nor do they spout off about the evils of Sony's DRM, rootkit fiasco or anti-consumerist behavior. None of them argue and name call over press releases touting their numbers and superiority over the other format.

They buy one format and when they go to try to get a HD movie and find it is only offered in the other format they then fully realize that no matter which format they started with IF they want to watch all the movies they are interested in watching in HD they need both formats.

Arguing over why your choice is best, or is going to 'win' is just mental masturbation or pure fanboyism. You have your preferances (whatever they may be) and that's fine. Other people have their own preferences and that's fine too.

But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip-- or a life

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Amen to the 5th degree.

Originally posted by duckNrun:

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This post is a little off topic as it doesn't really discuss the virute or validity of the numbers as posted. But since articles like this tend to result in discussions that spiral downwards into the realm of 'who rules and who drools' (lol) it will fit in just nicely :-)


I think you will find that the Joe Average consumer has no favorites in this format war. What Average Joe wants is to watch a movie that (s)he wants to watch and to do it on a tv not a monitor screen.

People (both the tech savy and the Average Joe) I know are now debating/considering the purchase of players for both formats. Buying one player first and then following it up with the other format not so far down the road. Most don't care about the techie pros and cons like us card carrying members of the 'nerd herd' do. Most don't spell microsoft as M$ or as MicroShaft nor do they spout off about the evils of Sony's DRM, rootkit fiasco or anti-consumerist behavior. None of them argue and name call over press releases touting their numbers and superiority over the other format.

They buy one format and when they go to try to get a HD movie and find it is only offered in the other format they then fully realize that no matter which format they started with IF they want to watch all the movies they are interested in watching in HD they need both formats.

Arguing over why your choice is best, or is going to 'win' is just mental masturbation or pure fanboyism. You have your preferances (whatever they may be) and that's fine. Other people have their own preferences and that's fine too.

But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip-- or a life

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Very true and I also think you will find that the Joe Average consumer doesn't want to spend a boat load of money on an undecided format which in turn, isn't good for Blu-Ray. What is there cheapest "standalone" out there right now...399?

Originally posted by goodswipe:

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Very true and I also think you will find that the Joe Average consumer doesn't want to spend a boat load of money on an undecided format which in turn, isn't good for Blu-Ray. What is there cheapest "standalone" out there right now...399?

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Well the Joe Average consumer who can only afford the $200 HD DVD player likely won't spend a boatlaod on the new release HD DVD discs which are $25 - $30. When he sees regular DVD's at $15 or less guess what he'll buy instead. It's just not player prices that come into play here. HD media on both sides are still priced at early adopter levels. HD media prices have to come down as well before Joe Average consumer starts buying more HD titles.

Just go to your nearest WalMart and you'll see the Joe Average buyers skipping the HD displays with new releases on both sides and HD DVD combos at $29.95. (Although some less popular titles are at $24.95 and older catalog titles are at $19.95.) They go instead to the huge regular DVD sections where new titles can be had for $15 at least for the 1st week after release. Plus there are the bargain bins with 2 for $10 offers and huge selections for $9.99 or less. The Joe Average consumer with the $200 HD DVD player just doesn't have much choice.

Originally posted by 26r0cK:

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If it "plays Blu-ray", thus it is considered a "Blu-ray PLAYER" LOL. So PS3 should count. As considering stand-alones, to me stand-alone players is if you can just plug it into a wall-outlet and plays, then it is a stand-alone hehe. I dunno if the Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on should count because you cant plug it into the wall, you need an Xbox360. Therefore, that's so not a stand-alone. Sure you can hook up the add-on to a PC, but then that should be counted with the HD-DVD Drives should it not instead of being counted as a stand-alone? Unless the Blu-ray player and the HD-DVD figure included the PC drives then the Xbox360 add-on can be included. IMO.

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Ok just stfu sony FB. This is one of the most rediculus claims i ahve ever heard. Stating that because the 360 HD DVD addon needs a 360 means it isn't a standalone! It means the only reason someone would buy it is becuase they want to watch HD DVD movies, where as the ps3, yes i does play blueray, however because it is primarily a GAMING CONSOLE, it means the majority of peopel will BUy it for GAMING! Therefore this skews the standaloen players, therefore because of this skew they are not counted and neither are the HD DVD addon's to try and even out the fact that PS3's aren't being counted.

What you ahve just proved by this stupdi statement is that you clearly do not have a clue what you are talkign about, and therefore your views on formate wars matters a nulled to me.

I can't ebelive some one can be to hypicritcal!PS3 a standalone + extra features? WTF is this! IT ID A GAMING CONSOLE that happens to play BR aswell!

Since Sony has been making consoles they have alway taken into count that they wanted to sale a multimedia console this hasn't change so why Sony got to change because people got a issue with it,? because there is a format war going on & to curve number in there favor.If it plays BD or HD-DVD media how is it not a standalone this has got to be the most asinine thing i've heard in awhile.So if its that way then if we are going to call BR & HD-DVD players standalone let strip the DVD-ROM drive out also because all BR & HD-DVD player are not standalones because it support DVD-ROM format to.

LOL, I'm sorry but I just have to post this again...

Some of you people seem to have forgotten what the definition of "standalone" is:

A standalone device is able to function independently of other hardware. This means it is not integrated into another device.

Hmmmm, what does this mean?

It means that the PS3 is not a standalone and should not be included in the figures the BDA is comming up with. I think it belongs in a separate category in and of itself. Face it, Blu-Ray is on a piggyback ride with the PS3.

How bout dem' apples...

You can't really include the PS3 because not everyone will want to buy BR movies... But then again, for the same price, why wouldn't those who want a BR player not want a PS3? Even when I go into Sony stores, they always say you can buy the PS3 for the same price or less.

So under that logic, nothing is a stand alone. You can plug an HD-DVD player in and play things other than HD-DVDs, right? Therefore, under your logic of what a standalone is, it is not a standalone. It uses hardware other than just a violet diode/parts strictly for HD-DVD reading, no?

so i suppose if we don't count them as standalone players then wouldn't that mean that the HD-DVD attachment rate argument is nullified now? blu-ray attachment rate would be friggin outrageous, not that it matters anyway as i am not a big advocate on attachment rate statements anyhow. im just merely saying...

also, i'd bet the farm that there were atleast some (a minority of people) who actually did buy the ps3 as a standalone unit when it released. it was the cheapest alternative to playing Blu-ray movies and actually was touted as being the better player when compared to the other blu-ray "standalone" units. not only could one use it as a movie player but with the card reader all he/she have to do is plug your card into the slot and view your photos on the bigscreen or even surf the web. Notice nothing was mentioned of playing any games.

the ps3 originally retailed for $599 and $499, don't sit there and say its primary purpose is for gaming as obviously with such a HIGH pricepoint it was meant for something more. have we already forgotten the reports of the system retailing for around 700+ dollars? why? the inclusion of Blu-ray. Just because society or even YOU (anyone broad term here) feel that since it has the Playstation brand associated with it, that it is just a gaming machine. Its intended purpose in my mind is a little more complex and i think sony was thinking alone those lines as well.

Guess I’ll try and compromise a little bit here, if you don't like using the term "standalone" or sony or the BRgroup using said term, you do make sense and i can understand. but it doesn't negate the fact that the system is still a Blu-ray player. i really don't think that even if they change their terminology and say 'sales of blu-ray capable players is so n so' people would be pleased. they would still argue well what percentage are actually using them as blu-ray players, attachment rates, overall market share, and so on.

there is no pleasing everyone so round and round we go, when it will stop, no one knows!

btw i don't have sony embroidered pillows, bedsheets, teeshirts, etc., but i do realize that in order for me to get what i feel is the most out of my ps3 "investment," is for Blu-ray to prevail (yes i use it to play both games and movies, probably own about the same of each). the increasing popularity of Blu-ray, means the more it'll sell, the more it sells the greater the chance the CONTENT i want to own will be available (blu-ray does have the upperhand in studio support). thus given all that, the better off i will be and thats all i really care about.

eatsushi, i also think makes a great point. if looking at movie prices and the average consumer he's logic does hold. actually wasn't it not too long ago that a report on here said sales of dvds focused on the older titles rather than the new releases? why, because of their attractive prices.

Originally posted by hade:

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eatsushi, i also think makes a great point. if looking at movie prices and the average consumer he's logic does hold. actually wasn't it not too long ago that a report on here said sales of dvds focused on the older titles rather than the new releases? why, because of their attractive prices.

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The $5 bin at wal*mart has been very good to me.

Per usual what could be a civil thread (like it's supposed to be) starts going south because some members just don't get it.

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But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip

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I couldn't agree more with this statement so let's take a step back and start posting rationally and being civil.

@Riotard
What is it with the need to attack other members? You've been given a few of warnings yet still you persist. So take another break on me.

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Agree!

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Big deal cos at heart they are not the bulk of the ownership or even a very large segment of the ownership (and if you want to dispute this & say that they are then, considering the dreadful retail movie disc attachment rates PS3 has, what does that say about it all, eh?).

Blu-ray is PS3 and like it or not PS3 is a game console.

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Yes a game console and yes a stand-alone BD player in my opinion as it does both, though as I have stated before I purchased it as a game console first to replace the PS2 that replaced my PS, just got the added benefit of being able to jump into the HD movie world and I am happy for it. The A/V aspect is leaps and bounds better than DVD when displayed on a proper 1080p television.

And I guess I will be one of those that make up the numbers as far as disc attachment rate goes, as I already have about 80 movies purchased, none of them were free giveaways and this all done in the span of just a couple months. I doubt I am the only one purchasing movies that owns a PS3. Somebody is buying movies if they are leading in total number of disc sales compared to HDDVD and the PS3 numbers are included in total sales figure.

who cares!!! that is the simple fact of life.. pick up any playes you want.. either HD or Blue ray.. to be honest by the time this crap is done once and for all there is probably gonna be super HD tv or something ont hat manner.. then u gonna have to buy a new tv and a new playes.. lets face it people is the fact of life.. it only is gonna get better so stop worying who is gonna win this and just pick one so u can enjoy Hd tv while it lasts.. then you can move on to somhting better.

This is quite a small number in my eyes for them to take a substantional lead they will have to increase their numbers 10 fold. HD DVD is not that far behind they mostly are level pegging at the moment.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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You can't really include the PS3 because not everyone will want to buy BR movies... But then again, for the same price, why wouldn't those who want a BR player not want a PS3? Even when I go into Sony stores, they always say you can buy the PS3 for the same price or less.

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i would disagree as if ppl were actually concerned about Hi-Def media like sony pr would have you believe "the war is won" crap, every one that owns a unit capable of playing blu-ray films shold be purchasing the media, but ppl really aren't bothered by Hi-Def because it offers little over current DVD.

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