"It may indeed provide additional features or options for the viewer (I myself would rather just have a good movie to watch without all the hoopla), but I think it's just mostly another way for Sony to exert control over how people use their system."


We use AutoCad 2008 at my office, and I am always getting kicked out of the program. I then receive a "Java Runtime Error", (which from what I have read means that there is some bad code writing or a conflict with another program). It sucks when you lose 20 minutes worth of work.
Anyways, I'm with you on the movie hoopla. Make a good product at a good price, and it will be well received. Those who steal it probably would have in the first place. If Sony doesn't change what they are doing, then I take no pitty on them. It would be their own fault. They would be the cause of the piracy. Oh, and it's only a matter of time before the current DRM is by-passed. That's how it always works. Sony better hurry to change or the consumer will tell them to shove off.

"More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up."


FIGURES! Cheaper was better apparently.

Originally posted by r0b0t3ch:

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"More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up."

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How does that relate to Java? Java uses a "Virtual Machine" to accommodate various interactive features on Blu-ray players. How are they still catching up? I believe this is a more advanced interactive feature set than HD-DVD offered.

Definition: Java generally refers to a combination of three things: the Java programming language (a high-level, object-oriented programming language); the Java Virtual Machine (a high-performance virtual machine that executes bytecodes on a specific computing platform, typically abbreviated JVM); and the Java platform, a JVM running compiled Java bytecodes, usually calling on a set of standard libraries such as those provided by Java Standard Edition (SE) or Enterprise Edition (EE). Though coupled by design, the language does not imply the JVM, and vice versa.

However, I do agree with some of what A_Klingon said. I have never been one to use the advanced features of a DVD and I doubt I will start now. If I put a disc in to watch a movie, I'm pretty sure I have made the decision to simply watch a movie! I just want to be blown away with crisp, life-like images and roaring, cinema like sound! :-D

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Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space

and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.

when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you puke

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space

and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.

when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you puke

---

I'm not a novice. I know how much space the streams take up. However, I am not sure how much you think is correct, is actually correct. The main movie often takes up more than 10gb of space. Include 5 or so languages in Dolby@640kbps, add a main track in Dolby TrueHD and another 5.1 PCM track, then add a video stream with an ABR of say 18mbps... According to my calculations, that takes up quite a bit more than 10gb.

Now about filling 10gb with DRM, I'd love to see that! What sort of code are they running? Is my Blu-ray player going to transform into Optimus Prime?

Oh and about the rootkits... OMG! Drop it already. How long ago was that? Sony screwed up big time! I am quite sure they know it. However, it is in the past, let's leave it there. Do you like it when someone brings up a mistake you did years ago?

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space

and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.

when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you puke

---

I'm not a novice. I know how much space the streams take up. However, I am not sure how much you think is correct, is actually correct. The main movie often takes up more than 10gb of space. Include 5 or so languages in Dolby@640kbps, add a main track in Dolby TrueHD and another 5.1 PCM track, then add a video stream with an ABR of say 18mbps... According to my calculations, that takes up quite a bit more than 10gb.

Now about filling 10gb with DRM, I'd love to see that! What sort of code are they running? Is my Blu-ray player going to transform into Optimus Prime?

Oh and about the rootkits... OMG! Drop it already. How long ago was that? Sony screwed up big time! I am quite sure they know it. However, it is in the past, let's leave it there. Do you like it when someone brings up a mistake you did years ago?

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perhaps your right but what does it matter,eh.

what made you think i was refering to sony when i said rootkits.
sony is not the only company who had left the bad rootkit expression on people's faces.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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perhaps your right but what does it matter,eh.

what made you think i was refering to sony when i said rootkits.
sony is not the only company who had left the bad rootkit expression on people's faces.

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Maybe because this is a Blu-ray thread. Maybe because you referred to "they" in regards to rootkits straight after you mentioned DRM. By the way, which other companies are you referring to?

Oh, and it is not perhaps I am right... I am right! I made a post that was from a knowledgeable position. It matters because you made a post that was based on false ideas. I tried to be fair about my initial reply. Why can't people be humble enough to accept that someone else knows something they don't? How else can you learn?

I guess I am just a little frustrated with all these Sony haters (most of which are Kids) on here that are either out of their league and/or try to make points that just don't have any merit.

As I said before, I am open minded enough to accept it when I am wrong. Can someone please provide some sort of proof that Sony plan to use a DRM that would somehow restrict a genuine Blu-ray disc from regular use?

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F $ony keep all your crap
thank you

Originally posted by RNR1995:

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F $ony keep all your crap
thank you

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Oh dear ! Mr.Dictionary deserted us again ?

Quote:

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Originally posted by RNR1995:

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F $ony keep all your crap
thank you

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Oh dear ! Mr.Dictionary deserted us again ?

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What's that supposed to mean?

interesting did i upset you,Ryu77.

well instead of bashing me why dont you further my education, by posting some links to as where you got so much great information.

unless of coarse you cant because it was in your mind.

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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perhaps your right but what does it matter,eh.

what made you think i was refering to sony when i said rootkits.
sony is not the only company who had left the bad rootkit expression on people's faces.

---

Maybe because this is a Blu-ray thread. Maybe because you referred to "they" in regards to rootkits straight after you mentioned DRM. By the way, which other companies are you referring to?

Oh, and it is not perhaps I am right... I am right! I made a post that was from a knowledgeable position. It matters because you made a post that was based on false ideas. I tried to be fair about my initial reply. Why can't people be humble enough to accept that someone else knows something they don't? How else can you learn?

I guess I am just a little frustrated with all these Sony haters (most of which are Kids) on here that are either out of their league and/or try to make points that just don't have any merit.

As I said before, I am open minded enough to accept it when I am wrong. Can someone please provide some sort of proof that Sony plan to use a DRM that would somehow restrict a genuine Blu-ray disc from regular use?

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Dude...man love you and all that...but....BD+ is a live key system that they can turn a flag on and ban players and discs from working.

the ban can be done in 2 ways new movies will be flagged not to work some players and net enabled players can be blacklisted and flagged from playing movies.

its just what BD+ dose and thankgod they sold it off to macrovision!

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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interesting did i upset you,Ryu77.

well instead of bashing me why dont you further my education, by posting some links to as where you got so much great information.

unless of coarse you cant because it was in your mind.

---

Relax little Man. I don't get upset so easy but I will stand my ground when it's called for. Your initial reply was a little condescending towards a post (the Java post I made) that I felt was on topic and not even the slightest bit confronting. I posted facts that don't need links for verification. Many people here at Afterdawn could verify that the information I posted was accurate while yours was not.

Your post...

Originally posted by DXR888:

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Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space

and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.

when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you puke

---

My post...

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

I'm not a novice. I know how much space the streams take up. However, I am not sure how much you think is correct, is actually correct. The main movie often takes up more than 10gb of space. Include 5 or so languages in Dolby@640kbps, add a main track in Dolby TrueHD and another 5.1 PCM track, then add a video stream with an ABR of say 18mbps... According to my calculations, that takes up quite a bit more than 10gb.

Now about filling 10gb with DRM, I'd love to see that! What sort of code are they running? Is my Blu-ray player going to transform into Optimus Prime?

Oh and about the rootkits... OMG! Drop it already. How long ago was that? Sony screwed up big time! I am quite sure they know it. However, it is in the past, let's leave it there. Do you like it when someone brings up a mistake you did years ago?

---

What part of this needs links for verification? I will happily post them if you feel that you really need them.

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Dude...man love you and all that...but....BD+ is a live key system that they can turn a flag on and ban players and discs from working.

the ban can be done in 2 ways new movies will be flagged not to work some players and net enabled players can be blacklisted and flagged from playing movies.

its just what BD+ dose and thankgod they sold it off to macrovision!

---

Thanks Zippy... We need more love here at Afterdawn. Let's share the love Brothers and Sisters! :-P

I understand the concept of BD+ and what it could potentially do. However, the key word is "potentially". When you see a Police Officer walking down the street, do you think "Hey, he's got a gun... He's going to shoot everybody".

Ok, my point is this. If Blu-ray did actually start locking down players etc. then it would only be from pirated discs. As much as people want to scream about this. It's really irrelevant. You are playing a pirated disc... Shame on you! :-P Now I am not saying that I am a Saint and obtain everything through legitimate channels, but I am humble enough to respect the rights that the companies reserve to protect their material from being distributed illegally. I believe that if you are playing genuine Blu-ray discs then you will never see any problems. The proof I am asking for is that they will lock down players to a single genuine Blu-ray disc. How on Earth is that going to work in the Rental sector? That will crush a big chunk of their business. As I said many times, if I am wrong about this... It's quite simple really, I will stop supporting Blu-ray products. Until that day actually comes. I will enjoy my HD movies in all their visual and audio glory while the skeptics stick with SD.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Dude...man love you and all that...but....BD+ is a live key system that they can turn a flag on and ban players and discs from working.

the ban can be done in 2 ways new movies will be flagged not to work some players and net enabled players can be blacklisted and flagged from playing movies.

its just what BD+ dose and thankgod they sold it off to macrovision!

---

Thanks Zippy... We need more love here at Afterdawn. Let's share the love Brothers and Sisters! :-P

I understand the concept of BD+ and what it could potentially do. However, the key word is "potentially". When you see a Police Officer walking down the street, do you think "Hey, he's got a gun... He's going to shoot everybody".

Ok, my point is this. If Blu-ray did actually start locking down players etc. then it would only be from pirated discs. As much as people want to scream about this. It's really irrelevant. You are playing a pirated disc... Shame on you! :-P Now I am not saying that I am a Saint and obtain everything through legitimate channels, but I am humble enough to respect the rights that the companies reserve to protect their material from being distributed illegally. I believe that if you are playing genuine Blu-ray discs then you will never see any problems. The proof I am asking for is that they will lock down players to a single genuine Blu-ray disc. How on Earth is that going to work in the Rental sector? That will crush a big chunk of their business. As I said many times, if I am wrong about this... It's quite simple really, I will stop supporting Blu-ray products. Until that day actually comes. I will enjoy my HD movies in all their visual and audio glory while the skeptics stick with SD.

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Either way what it will do is brick alot of hardware of software not to mention legit used copies at least it would if handled heavy handedly and with it begin out of sonys hands I do not think it will be a issue.

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Yes Ryu77 please enlighten me with your knowlogable links.

the more info i have the better....

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Yes Ryu77 please enlighten me with your knowlogable links.

the more info i have the better....

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Are you kidding me?

Which piece of information did you need links for?

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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Yes Ryu77 please enlighten me with your knowlogable links.

the more info i have the better....

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Are you kidding me?

Which piece of information did you need links for?

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I believe him wants BD+ info, specific to how ti will blacklist things would be nice.

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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I believe him wants BD+ info, specific to how ti will blacklist things would be nice.

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Isn't that what I'm asking for?

If you read my post I stated I was right about 1) A main (HD) movie taking up more than 10gb of space. 2) DRM not taking up 10gb on a disc. 3) Sony rootkit epidemic was years ago (about 3 I believe). As opposed to DXR888's previous post stating the opposite with the above information.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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I believe him wants BD+ info, specific to how ti will blacklist things would be nice.

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Isn't that what I'm asking for?

If you read my post I stated I was right about 1) A main (HD) movie taking up more than 10gb of space. 2) DRM not taking up 10gb on a disc. 3) Sony rootkit epidemic was years ago (about 3 I believe). As opposed to DXR888's previous post stating the opposite with the above information.

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ya but you both are arguing for the same thing but from both ends of the argument 0-o

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Now, I am confused... Zippy, I don't know if you understand what was actually discussed between DXR888 and I. You need to see from the Java post that I made... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/633032/3836195

In regards to bitrates and main movie sizes. See here... http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

You will see that the main movies are on average about 25gb each (fourth column from left). Some even hit the 40gb mark.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Now, I am confused... Zippy, I don't know if you understand what was actually discussed between DXR888 and I. You need to see from the Java post that I made... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/633032/3836195

In regards to bitrates and main movie sizes. See here... http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

You will see that the main movies are on average about 25gb each (fourth column from left). Some even hit the 40gb mark.

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ah that could be it LOL

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thankyou Ryu77 that would be the info i wanted.

however those bitrates are not from pure steams they still use compression algorythme's in other words they still wouldent fit on a BD Disc if they were pure streams.

Mpeg-2 is a dvd format whats up with that..?

Originally posted by DXR88:

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thankyou Ryu77 that would be the info i wanted.

however those bitrates are not from pure steams they still use compression algorythme's in other words they still wouldent fit on a BD Disc if they were pure streams.

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Ok, now I can see that you were serious about needing some education. If we can get past the initial hurdle of abruptness, it's time to go to School... :-P

I never at any point said they use a "pure" video stream. That was never part of our discussion. Yes, you mentioned it but that was not what I commented on. If they did indeed use uncompressed RGB for 1080p content, then you would need a box set of Blu-rays for a single movie... lol. With that being said, the audio offered is "pure". Each disc often includes PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) 5.1. This is uncompressed 6 channel audio, which requires a bitrate of 4608kbs (for 48khz/16 bit). The other two audio formats of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD use a lossless compression algorithm, which means that the audio is identical to the studio original at a more efficient bitrate (smaller size).

Originally posted by DXR888:

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Mpeg-2 is a dvd format whats up with that..?

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The new formats (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) support three video codecs as mandatory. These are mpeg2, VC-1 & AVC (h264). The mpeg2 used in Blu-ray is exactly the same one that we have seen for so many years on regular DVD discs. However, just like any other codec there are profile levels. DVD uses what is referred to as "Main Level" mpeg2. HD-DVD and Blu-ray use "High Level" mpeg2. These levels basically allow for greater resolutions & larger bitrate ranges etc.

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thanks for clarifing Ryu77

Well now that HD-DVD is dead and buried we will see what blu-ray and the manufacturers will bring out with their blu-ray players all the little wonderful extra functions that will keep consumers happy.