Microsoft again denies Blu-ray Xbox 360 rumors, Zune Touch coming?

M$ is smart to stay away from Blu Ray, the PS3 is the one for that, and it needs to stay that way. Sony would be stupid to sell out to M$, bein since M$ has no HD format now, except "downloaded content"...with no HD space on the 360...its gunna be weird to see what move they make now for the future. The 360 will die out slowly, and the PS3 will appeal to gamers soon, since GOW3, MGS4, Socom 4, and other great Blu Ray exclusive games will be coming soon. I will say I hated GH3 for the PS3, those stupid dongles suck, what happened to Blue-tooth Sony? the 360 is so much easier...

There's more to HD than just Blu-Ray, and at the moment, I am happy with my DirecTV and getting amazing DVD deals every week, which I can upconvert. This week I picked up all SIX Rocky movies for $20 at Target. They're in widescreen and have 5.1 surround sound. I could also buy all four Rambos in a set this week for $30, the same shelf price for the new Rambo on Blu-Ray.

If the DVD and Blu-Ray price trends continue, I'm more than content getting the DVD version to own, and waiting for the movie to pop up on HBO HD to catch a rerun (or first run depending on what crap Hollywood is trying to sell me! LOL)

Rumor's are called Rumor's for a reason. people get in major hype over some rumor.

They give the reasoning for this that they want to focus on downloaded hd material as they see this of the future.

This is despite in 2006 and 2007 they said they would support a blueray drive if hd-dvd failed and there was consumer demand :

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/12/xbox_360_blu-ray/

The consumer demand is now there, but they either wont do it or cant as sony is maybe unwilling to allow licencing of the blueray technology... who knows.

It appears they did approach sony for the technology as recently as march:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ca6017de-eba6-11...&nclick_check=1

which indicates its more likely sony declined and sent them packing.

Then they were the roumours that liteon were going to make the drive from them ... possibly they saw this as a way to get around sony saying no .. then they denied that liteone would be producing them any drives... either it was all smoke or maybe sony then pulled the carpet again.

Either way the 360 being a system that means you have to download it all and should the drive fail thats it all gone... maybe they see a future of complete pay for view or subscription packages to downloaded content... either way i know where a disk is and i can take it to another player and watch it there.. if you ask me they are either in a corner and trying to spin whats a bad thing or they are 2 short sighted to see that everyone apart for a select few who have been inserting betamax, vhs and dvds into players are more likely to follow the trend of a phsical item.. its not the same when at xmas you get a download for a film on xbox live.. lol you see what i mean.

The other flipside of a lack of drive is games can only store 8gb on a dual layer disk which means its not going to be possible to create as much content, be that fewer texturs, maps, levels, audio, what ever..

Its a shame they wont or cant give the users the option as they promissed.

As far as the zune mobile goes surly this will just be a HTC device running wm7

Knock Apple as much as you want...it seems to me that most of the tech gadgets coming to the market now are just playing catch up or just plain biting Apples style.

Originally posted by o0cynix0o:

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Knock Apple as much as you want...it seems to me that most of the tech gadgets coming to the market now are just playing catch up or just plain biting Apples style.

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Very true.

Also, say what you want, but there is NOT a definite need to go to Blu-Ray media to play games. If forced, the devs will have to compress and trim where necessary. They have definitely had the leisure of bloating discs with unrefined code, and large audio/video files for awhile now.

Live and WiiWare/VC games show how much "game" can fit into 50-256mb of space. Only one game for the Wii is larger than a single DVD disc, plus some space on each disc is reserved for copy protection crap as usual.

My point being, if a game like GTA, with all of its radio stations, sound bites, cut scenes and extras can fit on a DVD9, then the industry does not "need" more than 8.5gb at this time. (Though I would like to see if MSG4 actually uses BD space wisely, or if it's just a graphical upgrade over previous versions.)

Anyhow, I wonder if MS's announcement will be an early release date for the new Windows they are working on? If so, that won't be monumental news, unless they have a great upgrade price plan for all of the consumers suffering through Vista at the moment.

You need to remember that GTA4 took 3 years to make, thats when the 360 had "great" graphics, and so 3 years later, games look so much better than what they did 3 years ago, thus Blu ray will evolve as the next HD format for developers, just like it was from CD to DVD with the PS1(cd) to PS2(dvd) and so forth. the xbox(dvd) to 360(dvd9), so it's only a matter of time that games will step up, and Blu ray will prove that true. MGS4 is proof enough. just wait.

Blu-ray adoption outpaces DVD

Singulus has revealed that consumers are adopting Blu-ray faster than they did DVD, with the company having received 21 orders for Blu-ray dual-layer machines in the first quarter.

The information was revealed to shareholders at the technology manufacturer's Annual General Meeting of the Singulus Technologies in Frankfurt and directly contradicted claims by Microsoft's Robbie Bach that consumers were hesitant to upgrade to Blu-ray.

"This means that the orders for Blu-ray in the first year of the dual layer technology already by far exceeded the volume at the start of the DVD eleven years ago with 17 machines," said Stefan A Baustert, CEO of Singulus.

Blu-ray became the standard high definition format after Toshiba's decision to end its HD DVD business earlier this year. The announcement by Toshiba was then followed by Microsoft's decision to end production of the HD DVD player for Xbox 360.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/bl...on-outpaces-dvd


Like it or not Blu-Ray going to be the next media for the future either upgrade or be left behind........

whats it been, 3 times they denied the blu ray player? I saw myself on a site that had as one of the headlines "Xbox 360 confirms Blu Ray Player" or something like that... its not gonna happen, so people should just stop hopping...

Yes blu-ray is here to stay, it is the new format after all,

You cant compare DvD to Blu-ray, more storage = better game, sure you could trim stuff out of dvd, so why your at it trim the price too, im only getting half a product why should i give you full price.

Trimming content is bad business, its like Time warner trimming your download limit to 40 gig cap, and then charging you more for stuff that should have been there(xbox-market place).

it makes sense what there trying to do, buy a game go home put game in console. oopse there's a 1.2 gig file that needs downloading to play this game.

And i would wish people would stop saying Sony's Blu-ray, its not sony's, Sony was the bank behind this feat. no more than MS was to hd-dvd.

im not dissing MS in the least they will come up with something.

MS has always played the lets be the first to release, then fix it type of people, always.

If they did release an XBox with a blue ray drive how would all the owners of the regular DVD version of the console play the new games? It doesn't seem like a good way to make money to me. What are the chances they would use the now dead HD DVD format for games?

Originally posted by o0cynix0o:

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If they did release an XBox with a blue ray drive how would all the owners of the regular DVD version of the console play the new games? It doesn't seem like a good way to make money to me. What are the chances they would use the now dead HD DVD format for games?

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They wouldn't. They would release an external BD drive such as how they did with the HD-DVD drive.

BTW, does anyone know what the size was on the 360 version of GTA4? I know the PS3 was 10.4GB, but I want to compare how much they had to compress.

Originally posted by rvinkebob:

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They wouldn't. They would release an external BD drive such as how they did with the HD-DVD drive. .

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So they would be releasing games in BluRay or just movies?

Originally posted by DXR88:

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You cant compare DvD to Blu-ray, more storage = better game, sure you could trim stuff out of dvd, so why your at it trim the price too, im only getting half a product why should i give you full price.

Trimming content is bad business, its like Time warner trimming your download limit to 40 gig cap, and then charging you more for stuff that should have been there(xbox-market place).

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I think what I was trying to say was taken out of context, and was actually pointed out below. The PS3 version of GTA IV is (obviously) larger than the 360 version, and does not include the downloadable content that MS will be making available to Xbox users.

There had to be some way that Rockstar compiled their code, or compressed graphics, etc. With certain codecs for audio and video, it would definitely be a possibility to compress games to DVD9. With the installed base of 360 consoles, I doubt a company looking to release a game would just say "screw it, we don't want to trim this down to sell a few million extra copies." Unless of course, it's exclusive to either PlayStation or Xbox (ie. MGS4)

Hence, you're not getting less of a product in any way. We all know that WAV files are huge compared to MP3, AAC and WMA. Audiophiles can digress on the differences in each, but to the common folk, it's all the same deal. That's just one comparison between uncompressed and compressed digital files, which could also be the case for game content as well.

If you compare GTA IV on both consoles, I don't see a discernible difference between the two, and arguments have been made that the 360 version is graphically superior, though I won't take either side, it's just what I've read. (And NO, YouTube videos do not count! LOL.)

This guy is just in denial bout everything. Can he approve anything??

lol i think old robbie may have been smoking to much of the good stuff as some of his previous statements have included:

Trying to head microsoft into the furniture business:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/02/robbi...o-be-in-the-fu/

Or the fact that mobile phones will be useful in the future.. theres a no brainer:
http://www.moconews.net/entry/419-ces-mi...tant-in-the-fu/

I really liked this one it made me giggle:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/44666-mi...r-of-bad-timing

all i'm sayings is that eventually MS give or take 2 years will realize
there mistake, See you can only compress so much before the game turns into garbage. game developers have always wanted more space to work with
might not improve graphics, but that extra space could be used to store dynamic Textures and bitmaps, more story, or perhaps dynamic AI. as it stands you cant do that with a dvd.

Compressing is still taking away from the original loss-less or not.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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all i'm sayings is that eventually MS give or take 2 years will realize
there mistake, See you can only compress so much before the game turns into garbage. game developers have always wanted more space to work with
might not improve graphics, but that extra space could be used to store dynamic Textures and bitmaps, more story, or perhaps dynamic AI. as it stands you cant do that with a dvd.

Compressing is still taking away from the original loss-less or not.

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could not agree more.......

I third that.. but maybe its a case of sony either priced it out of being a viable option to fit it to the xbox or have just flately refused and blocked all attempts for the drive to be fitted to an xbox.

Who knows, its just a funny move after two years of saying they would go blueray if hd dvd failed and there was demand and now a big back track... which is why i think there is more that we havnt been told.

The HD Step down and give into BDROM was the break sony had been banking on all along, the now have their own format which they control and is then its only fitted exclusivly to their own games station...

It just win win win as far as sony go from here on in.....

... Maybe microsoft would consider fitting a BDROM to their microsoft home server and stream it across from there, its going to take giga lan to take the load unless the re-encode it down to a more compressed bitrate... but still its maybe an option for at least watching hi def roms, maybe someone will write something winamp remote (orb), tversity etc and will be able to do it from the pc.. who knows.

Still its a really sucky outcome not having bd onboard.

Who can afford that kinda internet? Microsoft is retarded to think that people are going to download whole console games for their system? And how much memory space are they going to allot? Why doesn't Microsoft just ressurect HDDVD? they have the money...

Originally posted by plazma247:

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lol i think old robbie may have been smoking to much of the good stuff as some of his previous statements have included:

Trying to head microsoft into the furniture business:
http:...

Nice research Plazma! I like it a Lot!
:)

Quote:

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Originally posted by o0cynix0o:

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If they did release an XBox with a blue ray drive how would all the owners of the regular DVD version of the console play the new games? It doesn't seem like a good way to make money to me. What are the chances they would use the now dead HD DVD format for games?

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They wouldn't. They would release an external BD drive such as how they did with the HD-DVD drive.

BTW, does anyone know what the size was on the 360 version of GTA4? I know the PS3 was 10.4GB, but I want to compare how much they had to compress.

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7.30 GB

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Quote:

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They wouldn't. They would release an external BD drive such as how they did with the HD-DVD drive.

BTW, does anyone know what the size was on the 360 version of GTA4? I know the PS3 was 10.4GB, but I want to compare how much they had to compress.

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7.30 GB

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They really trimmed it down then.

Originally posted by o0cynix0o:

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So they would be releasing games in BluRay or just movies?

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Just movies, and that's only if they release a BD drive for the 360. USB doesn't have enough bandwidth to carry constant data needed in most games on BluRay.

Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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Why doesn't Microsoft just ressurect HDDVD? they have the money...

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My thoughts exactly...they could have their own HD format for games exclusively.

a still say a 3 part plan to move the 360 to BR would work out great for them, new units are built better slowly replace the 360s out there with BR enabled units, you'd be able to prop up the aged 360 longer and even let publishers who want to make BR games for it but its going to take 5milloin or more BR enabled units in play to make BR gaming profitable, it can be done and be done reasonably...I'd much rather buy a 360 with BR in it at 300 than a PS3 at this point and time but the 360 is over priced without BR right now.

360 owners are sick of sending consoles in for refurbished systems. Lets just move forward with graphics, audio, and gameplay and why do we have to play trimmed contentual games, why can't we enjoy the real deal. Stop cutting content, and relying on "downloads" and lets look to the future, like MGS4 did. 50 Gigs of gamespace. No trimming, no cut audio, no cut gameplay. Its going to be beautiful. Unlike GTA4, which had to be compressed...sad. Now we have the PS3, which will have no problems running great stunning looking games at great speeds. MS will have no choice but to build a new next gen console to keep up with Sony's specs.

Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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360 owners are sick of sending consoles in for refurbished systems. Lets just move forward with graphics, audio, and gameplay and why do we have to play trimmed contentual games, why can't we enjoy the real deal. Stop cutting content, and relying on "downloads" and lets look to the future, like MGS4 did. 50 Gigs of gamespace. No trimming, no cut audio, no cut gameplay. Its going to be beautiful. Unlike GTA4, which had to be compressed...sad. Now we have the PS3, which will have no problems running great stunning looking games at great speeds. MS will have no choice but to build a new next gen console to keep up with Sony's specs.

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its still debatable if MSG4 uses filler or not :P
and the PS3 still has optimization issues with game code and running them correctly...

its rather easy to waste 20GB of data space by not using normal means of comrpesstion and what not that normally don't drop visual qauilty,not to mention filler data to better place the data on the disc for better loading times..


oh and HDVD can do 51GB a disc, down side its worthless for movies, MS will probably be forced to use it sooner or later, but at leastthe PS3 is matrueing well the 360 is already decrepit....

M$ smart decision is to adopt HDDVD and press on instead of telling us about worthless Internet downloads that no one will be able to afford let alone Hard Drive space..plus the technology and guts of the system are so old as it is anyways. They should recreate a next gen system soon..

Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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M$ smart decision is to adopt HDDVD and press on instead of telling us about worthless Internet downloads that no one will be able to afford let alone Hard Drive space..plus the technology and guts of the system are so old as it is anyways. They should recreate a next gen system soon..

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So make a new system every 2 years so consumers have to pay $500 each time? Just stick to the original and wait until 2011-12 when the next systems are bound to come out.

Originally posted by rvinkebob:

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Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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M$ smart decision is to adopt HDDVD and press on instead of telling us about worthless Internet downloads that no one will be able to afford let alone Hard Drive space..plus the technology and guts of the system are so old as it is anyways. They should recreate a next gen system soon..

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So make a new system every 2 years so consumers have to pay $500 each time? Just stick to the original and wait until 2011-12 when the next systems are bound to come out.

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Umm if they put BR on it they wont have to usher the user base to upgrde, first off if they just let devs amke what they want for it devs will make SE versions of the games on BR and even then not alot of them will until near tis end, all in all BR on the 360 with improved non self cooking hardware is good.

Just let them stick to internet downloads...or outdated DVD9 discs..leave BR to Sony. M$ 360 couldn't handle it externally, their faulty console would break somehow..

I think the ps3 will last 15 year's before the need to even think about a new console.

you've got a dynamic range cell based processor.
a brand new media based drive.
and firmware updating routine's.

Xbox will make a new console give or take 2 years.

blue-ray licensing is not Sony's call its the B.D.A's call.

i think MS is feeding us partial truth. there will not be a blue-ray for 360, there will be blue-ray in there new console.

in America and United Nations the WTO has a artical witch stats somethin like this: Items or trade can not be withheld from groups or third party's based on nationality, race, gender or color.

i forgot the artical number, but that there that would prevent the B.D.A from saying no to MS.

Agreed. Good point(s).

Originally posted by DXR88:

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I think the ps3 will last 15 year's before the need to even think about a new console.

you've got a dynamic range cell based processor.
a brand new media based drive.
and firmware updating routine's.

Xbox will make a new console give or take 2 years.

blue-ray licensing is not Sony's call its the B.D.A's call.

i think MS is feeding us partial truth. there will not be a blue-ray for 360, there will be blue-ray in there new console.

in America and United Nations the WTO has a artical witch stats somethin like this: Items or trade can not be withheld from groups or third party's based on nationality, race, gender or color.

i forgot the artical number, but that there that would prevent the B.D.A from saying no to MS.

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IMO they an move the 360 itself to BR one of the things holding it back besides the fail rate is the space limtis, if they moved the line to a unlocked HDD drive and it has a BR drive in it they could move all new games to BR in 2-3 years and keep the BR 360 going untill 014-016.

the 360 has power but its limited due to them making a frnakenconsole.

Not really zippy, Xbox360 uses a tri-core processor. each core is roughly clocked in at 1.2Ghertz, each core does its own thing one does video another does audio, the other is shared, between I/O devices,and AI scripts.

even if they did release a blue-ray drive, i don't think it would run effectively at 1.2Ghertz. even then you'd have no room for AI.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Not really zippy, Xbox360 uses a tri-core processor. each core is roughly clocked in at 1.2Ghertz, each core does its own thing one does video another does audio, the other is shared, between I/O devices,and AI scripts.

even if they did release a blue-ray drive, i don't think it would run effectively at 1.2Ghertz. even then you'd have no room for AI.

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looking at some of the newer games if they had HDD space for more constant and slightly better models/textures it can easily go for another 5-7 years, it would be cheaper to do that and then build a REAL next gen console in that time frame.

MS won't unlock hdd, you know as well as i do that that'll never happen.

think original Xbox harddrive, only on the outside and more restricting to unlock because of prioritized plugin.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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i forgot the artical number, but that there that would prevent the B.D.A from saying no to MS.

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But thats not to say they cant price it so its not a feasable option, which amounts to the same thing.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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MS won't unlock hdd, you know as well as i do that that'll never happen.

think original Xbox harddrive, only on the outside and more restricting to unlock because of prioritized plugin.

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if they want a complete media center game machine they will have to do it, remember MS said they were not going into media for the 360, they have no choice but to now.