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Hollywood suit against RealDVD meant to stifle innovation, says EFF

11 October 2008 17:59 by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz | 28 comments

According to the EFF, the recent Hollywood suit against RealDVD is nothing more than a smokescreen aimed not at piracy but instead at stifling innovation.

"It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with controlling innovation," said Fred von Lohmann, EFF's senior attorney.

The suit contends that RealNetwork's RealDVD software is in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as well as a breach of contract with the DVD Copy Control Association.

RealNetworks claims that the software "allows consumers to securely store, manage and play their DVDs on their computers" and "does not enable users to distribute copies of their DVDs." It also mentions that RealDVD adds another layer of DRM to the ripped movies which makes it much harder to move to films off the computer that has the program installed.

The MPAA however told a judge that users simply need to start a Netflix account and they will build up huge movie libraries while paying only a monthly fee for the rental service. This "rent, copy, return" scenario would (clearly) cost the movie studios billions per year, noted the MPAA. Von Lohmann also adds however that there are a plethora of "DVD rippers" currently available online that allow users to copy DVDs to their hard drives, and those software have no DRM, unlike RealDVD.

"Hollywood can't possibly believe that the $30, DRM-hobbled RealDVD software represents a piracy threat," von Lohmann wrote. "The studios are using the lawsuit to send a message about what happens to those who innovate without permission in a post-DMCA world."

Any licensing agreement tech companies sign before making movie players are simply a means of control for the studios, added von Lohmann. "The licenses define what the devices can and can't do thereby protecting Hollywood business models from disruptive innovation," he said.

"In the course of these years-long negotiations, Hollywood has managed to wrest several important concessions from technology vendors," von Lohmann wrote. These "include requiring that computers do watermark detection to spot pirated copies when reading data from Blu-ray discs, and imposing DRM on resulting copies."

RealDVD is such a huge threat to the studios because it does not require a license, thus keeping Hollywood at bay.

"By reading the existing CSS license carefully," von Lohmann wrote, "Real found a way to create a new product category without first getting permission from the Hollywood studios."

Von Lohmann concludes that he believes the studios aren't against the backing up of DVDs, just that they want a cut of the revenue of any such product.

Permalink to this article | Topic: Lawsuits & Legislation

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MPAA: Court rules against Chinese DVD player manufacturer (3 November 2008)

Sweden to sign controversial anti-piracy law (25 October 2008)

Samsung Blu-ray players to connect with Netflix (23 October 2008)

Guns N' Roses pirate pleads not guilty (21 October 2008)

Playboy moves to digital, drops DVD (18 October 2008)

Pioneer teams up with Qflix for DVD burners (14 October 2008)

EU tells MP3 player owners to turn down the volume (13 October 2008)

No PS3 pricecut for Christmas, says Sony (13 October 2008)

Blu-ray set-top sales to explode over next 4 years, says report (12 October 2008)

Restraining order on RealDVD stays in place (8 October 2008)

RealDVD taken down temporarily (6 October 2008)

RealNetworks sues Hollywood over RealDVD (30 September 2008)

Legal DVD ripping now available from Real (8 September 2008)

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ddp (Moderator) 11 October 2008 21:45
BLAHHHHH, knockoff the caps lock as is refered to as shouting which is a forum rule no no. [ + quote]
Leningrad (Member) 11 October 2008 22:29
*Originally posted by ddp:* BLAHHHHH, knockoff the caps lock as is refered to as shouting which is a forum rule no no. Im not getting the picture, using caps only for a few sentences is not flaming. [ + quote]
varnull (AfterDawn Addict) 11 October 2008 22:32
Protocol. anyway.. what was the news story? Oh yeah.. .. As a member of EFF i don't see why we are standing behind this drm laden shite.. I have made my opinions known to those who matter.. Real software is closed source.. and EFF have policies about closed source.. eh Mr Stallman? It's crap.. and we know it.. Real and drm/css encryption.. get real. I rip a dvd I don't give a crap if it's encrypted or not.. because I know how feeble that protection is. let it die.. Real drm filled phone home software has no place in my world, and I hope it has no place in yours either. Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. The flower of carnage-shura no hana [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11 October 2008 22:39
ddp (Moderator) 11 October 2008 22:44
Leningrad, has nothing to do with flaming. 9. No ALL CAPS MESSAGES or you will be banned (you know, turn the caps lock off before you type anything). [ + quote]
varnull (AfterDawn Addict) 11 October 2008 22:47
Awww.. give em a break.. it was almost Friday ;) They may be using JAWS.. don't forget the visually impared aren't going to know if caps lock is on or not. Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. The flower of carnage-shura no hana [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11 October 2008 22:48
ddp (Moderator) 11 October 2008 22:52
is almost sunday & past friday being still saturday. [ + quote]
varnull (AfterDawn Addict) 11 October 2008 22:55
Aye.. tis true.. Just commenting on the sudden upsurge in people trying to be mods again. Please do remember that we do have the VI members also.. and they may not be aware that they have caps on, or see the importance of it. I'm a minority.. no special treatment required (why are there so few girls?). A little understanding goes further than a shouting at any day. Teach and Learn? Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. The flower of carnage-shura no hana [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11 October 2008 22:58
ddp (Moderator) 11 October 2008 23:17
copying my 1 liner saying? [ + quote]
varnull (AfterDawn Addict) 11 October 2008 23:42
with the added ? As a webmaster I have to be aware of http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/pub..._legalcase.hcsp Worth a quick scan Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. The flower of carnage-shura no hana [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11 October 2008 23:43
hikaricor (Newbie) 12 October 2008 3:00
*Originally posted by BLAHHHHH:* SELF RIGHTEOUS RAVE AND RANT...YOU AGREE TO NOT COPY DVDS WHEN YOU PURCHASE A MOVIE DVD...READ THE FINE PRINT ON THE MOVIE DVD AT THE START...IF YOU DISAGEE WITH THE FINE PRINT...DONT BUY THE DVD...SIMPLE! THE REST OF YOUR RANT IS A SMOKESCREEN FOR AN ILLEGAL ACT! you are an idiot [ + quote]
13thHouR (Inactive) 12 October 2008 3:36
well..... Content Protection *Quote:* This is by design: as Jack Valenti, former head of the MPAA, put it, �If you buy a DVD you have a copy. If you want a backup copy you buy another one�). It's obvious why this type of business model makes the pain of pushing content protection onto consumers so worthwhile since it practically constitutes a license to print money. The RIAA - BPI - IFPI - CRIA - Ect - Ect Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX. Dont allow them to hide behind the trade body names, name and shame em. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12 October 2008 3:37
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 12 October 2008 12:56
varnull Down girl DOWN!! The point of this is to protect consumer�s right to backing up and using the data they buy for personal use it dose not matter if the head of the spear is a dull DRM POS it still spread heads another movement to force CP owners to understand their place in society. [ + quote]
varnull (AfterDawn Addict) 12 October 2008 13:30
But I can back up for free.. without paying Real or anybody else.. AFAIK as long as I don't transfer the copies I make to anybody else by any means no laws are being broken. The DMCA infringes on my fair use rights.. and destroys the first ownership principles enshrined in law.. so I don't recognise it as a valid law. If I use this software does that mean that I can rip/burn and sell? Don't think so, so why is it relevant in any way? Nah.. no sale. Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. The flower of carnage-shura no hana [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12 October 2008 13:31
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 12 October 2008 15:14
varnull Mew thinks you are missing the point. licks mew paw Yoou see the CP owners can gang up together and buy authoritarian laws and rules to dismiss what ever precived rights one has now. Thus ANYTHING to maintain the line the war on the gray filed helps us all even if at the head of it is a crappy DRM product. Until they try to make products like it "safe" its all good. When they try and say that users can not make or distribute programs that do the same things that the "approved" programs do that then will be bad but for now they are trying to do basically the same thing all the ripper programs do. For all the console/game fanboys out their. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown Oh god I can't stop laughing!!! --- And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!! [ + quote]
ddp (Moderator) 12 October 2008 15:16
hikaricor, watch the name calling!! [ + quote]
DXR88 (Member) 12 October 2008 23:55
I don't think i've ever seen ddp post so much on one thread. Somethings must have happened. ☺ ☻ [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12 October 2008 23:56
BLAHHHHH (Newbie) 13 October 2008 1:38
The one good outcome from dvd piracy is that it has reduced the cost of legitimate movie dvds from somewhere around $30 to a reasonable $12..$15 per copy. [ + quote]
BLAHHHHH (Newbie) 13 October 2008 1:47
O incidentally i've never read so many self righteous comments about the right to illegaly copy dvd movies...talk about criminal vested interests...or the use of caps in a post...lol...by buying a movie dvd you enter into a contract with the film companies to not pirate said movie...that is the issue...its not about how easy it is to copy the dvd...or even fair rights....what fair rights?!? i dont see that mentioned on the movie dvd...?!? [ + quote]
DXR88 (Member) 13 October 2008 15:12
*Originally posted by BLAHHHHH:* O incidentally i've never read so many self righteous comments about the right to illegaly copy dvd movies...talk about criminal vested interests...or the use of caps in a post...lol...by buying a movie dvd you enter into a contract with the film companies to not pirate said movie...that is the issue...its not about how easy it is to copy the dvd...or even fair rights....what fair rights?!? i dont see that mentioned on the movie dvd...?!? You contradict what others say, yet you don't know about fair usage. sigh.. guess its easier to steal when the masses are to Black/white on things. you don't enter a contract. A contract is a negotiation between me and the Film company's. there is no negotiation there for there is no contract. There is however blatant messages that say they can fine up two 150,000 and 3 years in prison, and how you can and cant use the media. btw, Its better to look like a fool than open your mouth and prove your a fool. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use [ + quote]
BLAHHHHH (Newbie) 14 October 2008 2:12
when you buy a movie dvd...their is a list of instructions as to what you may or may not do with your purchased dvd from the film studios...by buying that dvd you are entering into an agreement with the studiio...its technically a contract to abide by those instructions...to not copy that dvd...its immaterial whether you like these rules or whether you think they are unfair...you do not purchase a right to copy that dvd...only to own and view it...thats not too difficult to understand now is it! [ + quote]
BLAHHHHH (Newbie) 14 October 2008 2:25
ahh yes as for the doctrine of 'fair use'...how about you explain that doctrine to the movie studios when you are caught with a pirated copy of their dvd in your hands...why in heavens name would anyone want the right to be able to make 1, 5, 20, 50 , 100 copies of bambi?!?! [ + quote]
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 14 October 2008 2:35
*Originally posted by BLAHHHHH:* when you buy a movie dvd...their is a list of instructions as to what you may or may not do with your purchased dvd from the film studios...by buying that dvd you are entering into an agreement with the studiio...its technically a contract to abide by those instructions...to not copy that dvd...its immaterial whether you like these rules or whether you think they are unfair...you do not purchase a right to copy that dvd...only to own and view it...thats not too difficult to understand now is it! And fair use trumps half of what they say because what they say is wishfull thinking. Your rights are as follows You may make a back up for your own personal use, even the DMCA allows this. this personal use copy must be destroyed when you sale the item its copied from. You also have the right to re convert it as so it can play on other devices but you still must get rid of them all when you sale the original item. If you "get caught"it means you been downloading which is a gray area until they find you or if you are selling copies which is clearly against the law. Besides when it comes to data copying it can never do substantial damage to a multi billion dalor industry. Its mostly based around popularity and fame of the time if there was no fame or popularity for it it would not copied its basically crying over split milk. [ + quote]
raceman94 (Member) 14 October 2008 20:53
Hollywood gone wild! [ + quote]
13thHouR (Inactive) 15 October 2008 4:10
*Originally posted by raceman94:* Hollywood gone wild! well money grabbing scum bags, if double dipping wasn't enough you know. They want to control every aspect including the eventual move to rent only titles and blu-ray is the tool that will allow them to do this with it's phone home authorise disc system they could lock a disc to a single machine, make it playable X amount of times or set start and finish dates. Does this sound anything like Sony's DRM SecuROM to you? the ability is there lets hope they never implement it. The RIAA - BPI - IFPI - CRIA - Ect - Ect Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX. Dont allow them to hide behind the trade body names, name and shame em. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15 October 2008 4:18
BLAHHHHH (Newbie) 15 October 2008 6:00
duh...those movie companies are not just making cheap movie dvds for your personal pleasure...lol..what you are advocating with fair use is movie dvd piracy...the ability to swap, pirate unpaid for dvds with friends etc..we all know that!....dont we!...what the issue really is...what is a fair price to pay for movie dvds that reimburse movie companies..the source of our viewing pleasure...to keep making movies...without making us feel like we are not paying exorbitant dollars for their product...otherwise we kill the goose that lays the golden egg...all you people on here sound like you are being hard done by ...by the movie companies! LOL [ + quote]
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 15 October 2008 10:23
*Originally posted by BLAHHHHH:* duh...those movie companies are not just making cheap movie dvds for your personal pleasure...lol..what you are advocating with fair use is movie dvd piracy...the ability to swap, pirate unpaid for dvds with friends etc..we all know that!....dont we!...what the issue really is...what is a fair price to pay for movie dvds that reimburse movie companies..the source of our viewing pleasure...to keep making movies...without making us feel like we are not paying exorbitant dollars for their product...otherwise we kill the goose that lays the golden egg...all you people on here sound like you are being hard done by ...by the movie companies! LOL Oh yes because every copy and lended film and game is equatable to a lost sale. The law allows you to make a backup to not damage your original but beyond that skirting that is the legal equivalent of J walking. But its more effective for the corporations to put that 800LB gorilla butt on the consumer and try and police by proxy than it is to say their are core issues with their business model thats the real reason they are losing sales. Also it would be a good thing if the industry failed a new one would come up with a better business model thats less anti consumer. [ + quote]