Everyone's getting in on the act and covering all the bases:

Entry Level: Olevia, Funai/Magnavox etc
Mid Level: Panasonic, Sony, Samsung etc
High End: Denon, Marantz, Goldmund etc

Toshibot you must be an idiot for placing Samsung on mid-level compared to a pioneer they bought are equally durable and both are considered technologically quality products.

Toshibot you must be an idiot for placing Samsung on mid-level compared to a pioneer they bought are equally durable and both are considered technologically quality products.

Originally posted by Leningrad:

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Toshibot you must be an idiot for placing Samsung on mid-level compared to a pioneer they bought are equally durable and both are considered technologically quality products.

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Best Buy prices:

Samsung BD-P1500 - $299.99

Pioneer BDP-51FD - $599.99

Call me an idiot but anything at or above $500 (especially if it's Profile 1.1) at this point in time is considered high-end at least in my POV. Pioneer announced their BD-Live 2.0 Elite model - the BDP-09FD - with an MSRP of $2199.

http://www.blu-ray.com/players/players.php?id=95

Is $2199 high-end enough for you?

i read the title "Blu-ray players hit new low" and thought that the image constraint token DRM had been turned on early!

Low prices are good but who really wants to buy into DRM hell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token

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The Image Constraint Token (ICT) is a protocol flag that can cause downsampling of high-definition video content on Blu-ray and HD DVD to slightly-better-than-DVD quality video. It is part of the Advanced Access Content System, the Digital Rights Management system used in high-definition optical disc formats.

Operation

When using an AACS-enabled player, all components in the display chain (including the display panel) must be considered "secure". This security is enforced through the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) system, available on some devices which support DVI and HDMI video connections. If any components in the display chain do not support HDCP (such as a display connected to the player through analog connections like component, composite or S-Video) and the ICT flag is enabled, the player automatically reduces the high-definition video to the resolution of 960x540 pixels before outputting it. Hence, while higher resolution than that of a standard DVD, the resulting video signal is no longer truly high-definition.

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I'm all about lowering the prices of this soon-to-be dying technology because it's now been fairly perfected but beware...................OLEVIA IS GARBAGE!!!

You buy an Olevia and you will surely be out 229.00

Olevia is a viable purchase at 49.99 when, like Payless Shoe Source, it's cheap enough for a practical replacement every six months or year.

As for Toshibot's comment.................HEY WAKE UP!!!! Pioneer is drastically overpriced as a product line. DRAS-TIC-ALLY!!

I have a friend that works for Pioneer and the only difference between Elite and standard is 3 component circuit boards inside the TVs. Maybe gold or platinum plated but OVER PRICED. Pioneer is being drowned out of the entertainment and technology industry by the likes of Samsung and Sony. Toshiba too.

Originally posted by Leningrad:

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Toshibot you must be an idiot for placing Samsung on mid-level compared to a pioneer they bought are equally durable and both are considered technologically quality products.

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I have to agree. Pioneer is good quality but seriously overpriced.
I was at Sam's looking at HD Tvs and pioneer tv's were high as hell. But it was by far not the best quality picture. Magnavox/phillips, samsung, sharp(aquous), and some others made pioneers picture quality look like garbage. There is a phillips 47in LCd at walmart with 1080p and dynamic contrast ratio of 1:29000
selling for $1299. If pioneer had a LCd with that high contrast at 1080p you would have to pay as much as a small used car. I am sure it is no diff when it comes to Blueray player from pioneer.

Originally posted by lynchGOP:

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Pioneer is drastically overpriced as a product line. DRAS-TIC-ALLY!!

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That's why he put it in the high-end category where it belongs. It's not entry-level or mid-level price wise (even if the build quality doesn't merit such a label).

@13thhour: You forgot to point out the fact that ICT isn't activated for HD DVD and BluRay. You can enjoy 1920x1080 even thru component connections from both formats. When they revisit the issue in 2012 I doubt that they'll even consider activating it but it could be a moot point since I would imagine all displays sold by then would be HDCP compliant.

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Originally posted by lynchGOP:

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Pioneer is drastically overpriced as a product line. DRAS-TIC-ALLY!!

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That's why he put it in the high-end category where it belongs. It's not entry-level or mid-level price wise (even if the build quality doesn't merit such a label).

@13thhour: You forgot to point out the fact that ICT isn't activated for HD DVD and BluRay. You can enjoy 1920x1080 even thru component connections from both formats. When they revisit the issue in 2012 I doubt that they'll even consider activating it but it could be a moot point since I would imagine all displays sold by then would be HDCP compliant.

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The point being made that you apparently missed is that Pioneer is not higher end than Samsung or Sony.

Denon, Onkyo, MacIntosh, Marantz............That is high end. Pioneer...........NOT

Moreover, paying the price for stuff like Marantz is ridiculous because picture quality and sound quality is negligible and is generally a means of compensating for small penises. HA HA HA

Due to the deafening public outcry I have removed Pioneer from the high-end category and replaced it with the Goldmund Eidos (MSRP $17,000):

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/goldm...ayer-costs-17k/

How about that for Ultra-High-End?

Originally posted by Toshibot:

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Due to the deafening public outcry I have removed Pioneer from the high-end category and replaced it with the Goldmund Eidos (MSRP $17,000):

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/goldm...ayer-costs-17k/

How about that for Ultra-High-End?

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Yep........you'd being seeing a different picture than I and there would be different people acting on the same movie with a high end unit like that.

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i read the title "Blu-ray players hit new low" and thought that the image constraint token DRM had been turned on early!

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I believe you when you say that was the first thing you thought. But like usual you were

Originally posted by eatsushi :

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That's why he put it in the high-end category where it belongs. It's not entry-level or mid-level price wise (even if the build quality doesn't merit such a label).

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Pie-in-your-ear, hi-end, don't make me laugh.

Originally posted by eatsushi :

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@13thhour: You forgot to point out the fact that ICT isn't activated for HD DVD and BluRay. You can enjoy 1920x1080 even thru component connections from both formats. When they revisit the issue in 2012 I doubt that they'll even consider activating it but it could be a moot point since I would imagine all displays sold by then would be HDCP compliant.

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The studios Implemented HDMI SPDC HDCP DRM, blocking thousands of already sold screens and rendering them completely useless, from displaying current blu-ray media, what makes you think that they won't turn on ICT, the MPAA have only agreed to delay it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token

Quote:

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Image Constraint Token


The Image Constraint Token (ICT) is a protocol flag that can cause downsampling of high-definition video content on Blu-ray to slightly-better-than-DVD quality video. It is part of the Advanced Access Content System, the Digital Rights Management system used in high-definition optical disc formats.

[edit] Operation

When using an AACS-enabled player, all components in the display chain (including the display panel) must be considered "secure". This security is enforced through the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) system, available on some devices which support DVI and HDMI video connections. If any components in the display chain do not support HDCP (such as a display connected to the player through analog connections like component, composite or S-Video) and the ICT flag is enabled, the player automatically reduces the high-definition video to the resolution of 960x540 pixels before outputting it. Hence, while higher resolution than that of a standard DVD, the resulting video signal is no longer truly high-definition.

The Image Constraint Token applies on a per disc basis, so that one movie title could have it enabled while another from a different studio could have it disabled. It impacts video only, and has no effect on audio signal quality. Discs with ICT enabled will (theoretically) have it marked on the outside of package, allowing consumers to see if the specific disc has the flag enabled.

Note that ICT in conjunction with HDCP is used to protect the display path over which the video data travels, not the actual data on the disc itself.

[edit] Rationale

The use of ICT is an attempt to prevent individuals from creating unauthorized high-resolution copies of copyrighted content. Without content protection, users with the appropriate equipment could easily capture each and every frame of the film at its full resolution, effectively making a "perfect" copy. Although this danger is greatest for unsecured digital outputs, analog outputs also allow copies to be made, albeit with a potential for slightly reduced quality.

Some HDTV early adopters object to the ICT flag because initial HDTVs did not incorporate HDCP support and thus, if this was activated, these individuals would not be able to enjoy high-definition video from such discs. Hollywood has reportedly agreed to not activate this flag for discs released in either of the two formats until 2012.

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Originally posted by 13thHouR:

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The studios Implemented HDMI SPDC HDCP DRM, blocking thousands of already sold screens and rendering them completely useless, from displaying current blu-ray media,

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Again incorrect.

They aren't completely blocked out and they aren't useless if they have component inputs.

Older non-HDCP displays can still use analog component connections to display high def BluRay and HD DVD since ICT is still not in play. BluRay and HDDVD can still be watched in 720p/1080i and I know of a few people with older HDTV's who do so. I even have an ancient InFocus X1 PJ that has no HDCP whatsoever but is capable of accepting the 1080i component input from my HDDVD and BluRay players.

In fact some hardcore videophiles, HT specialists and system integrators prefer component analog connections over HDMI. I've seen high-end setups where there isn't one single HDMI/HDCP connection anywhere and these have the latest outboard scalers and BluRay players in them.

The only thing that's affected by this: upconverted DVD (but even this has seen its share of workarounds).

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what makes you think that they won't turn on ICT, the MPAA have only agreed to delay it?

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I'm betting by 2012 non-HDCP displays will already be in their last few breaths or have already been replaced by HDCP-compliant ones. The issue will be moot. Right now it's quite impossible to find a new HDTV on sale with a non-HDCP compliant connection.

Nice try but no cookie.

Thanks for the info. Nice to know that me and almost everyone else has nothing to worry about. Could you please list the few first gen HDTV's that are not ITC compliant?

Originally posted by glassd:

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Thanks for the info. Nice to know that me and almost everyone else has nothing to worry about. Could you please list the few first gen HDTV's that are not ITC compliant?

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Most sets with DVI and/or component only inputs are usually non-HDCP compliant. Even some early versions of HDMI were non-HDCP.

Sounds more like computer monitors.

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Originally posted by lynchGOP:

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Pioneer is drastically overpriced as a product line. DRAS-TIC-ALLY!!

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That's why he put it in the high-end category where it belongs. It's not entry-level or mid-level price wise (even if the build quality doesn't merit such a label).

@13thhour: You forgot to point out the fact that ICT isn't activated for HD DVD and BluRay. You can enjoy 1920x1080 even thru component connections from both formats. When they revisit the issue in 2012 I doubt that they'll even consider activating it but it could be a moot point since I would imagine all displays sold by then would be HDCP compliant.

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The point being made that you apparently missed is that Pioneer is not higher end than Samsung or Sony.

Denon, Onkyo, MacIntosh, Marantz............That is high end. Pioneer...........NOT

Moreover, paying the price for stuff like Marantz is ridiculous because picture quality and sound quality is negligible and is generally a means of compensating for small penises. HA HA HA

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Good Point. That is exactly what i was trying to implement that Pioneer though priced high doesnot deserve to be considered as a high end product. Pioneer is no better than a lot of other brands that are reasonably priced. Had a choice about 10 years ago between some pioneer subs and some audiobahn. The audiobahn subs were competition level subs for about the same price as the pioneer. Just to give an example of how loud the subs are you cant light a cigarette lighter while sitting in the front seats when the subs are on b/c the force from the air moving blows it out. Had a guy who had 4 kicker comp 12's who heard them and refused to believe i was only pushing 2 subs until i opened my trunk. Those audiobahn 12's have about 1200 watts flowing to them and they still sound good today. Glad i did not buy the pioneer subs. Again pioneer not better quality all the time but always overpriced.

Originally posted by Toshibot:

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Everyone's getting in on the act and covering all the bases:

Entry Level: Olevia, Funai/Magnavox etc
Mid Level: Panasonic, Sony, Samsung etc
High End: Denon, Marantz, Goldmund etc

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We could see sub $150 1.1 players and sub $200 2.0 players by Christmas. Retailers are well aware of the economic crunch and they should adjust prices accordingly.

Blu-ray's abbreviation is BD...................which in turn is an abbreviation for BLOWS DOGS!!

I think it's awesome that blu-ray players are continuing to drop in price. This is a great deal and should really help jumpstart the format. I've actually been working with Warner Home Video on some projects and they're always glad to see prices on players go down.

That's OK!But take a closer look following link,It's great to DVD and PSP converter

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One would be stupid to buy any type of BD player for anything more than US$ 200/= when I van buy an 80 GB PS3 with a built in BD player for US$ 399/=

I some how have a feeling that since the BD player prices are dropping so will the PS3 price.