Originally posted by varnull:

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I think they have... but that's not so much M$ as it is the game publishers. Think about it from M$ perspective.. you go pirate a game and then pay $xxx dollars a year for the live account to play it online.. That doesn't hurt M$ at all.. It probably costs them a fair chunk to implement systems to detect non-original media.. and to have at least 1 staff to run the ban process every month.. looks to me like 1 person anyway by the long gaps between ban outings.

Open Source numbers continue to rise.. fista is the best thing that ever happened for linux/bsd. In fact IMHO it's only an idiot who buys M$ software these days to be called a thief and a pirate every 30 minutes.
I install stolen XP all the time.. wpa and wga cracks, disable the auto updates (by messing up the url's it hunts for.. hex editor and skillz needed) and away they go for months and months of hassle free XP using.. poor n00bs. I feel real bad perpetuating the sheeple drone M$ users by helping them... but honestly.. they are too programmed and thick to use anything else (even though windows is hard to use, old fashioned and clunky)
Re-education is required.. in a big way... Starting in schools.. we must make it clear that using proprietary software in so called "IT" courses is rubbish. Kids only know how to use M$ software.. and then go looking for employment in places that use unix/linux/solaris... and they don't have a clue without that sodding paper clip telling them what to do every 10 seconds.
I know I know.. school isn't to educate.. it's to program the next generation of non thinking consumers.. but really.......

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Dude... There is a reason Windows is so popular... It's the halfway point between Mac and Linux/Unix. It's less babied than Mac but less demanding compared to Linux. I decided to give Linux a try so I installed Ubuntu. Then spent the next couple hours on the net trying to figure out how to install programs... Hell with that. I can do more on Windows. Yes Ubuntu has a software depository that you can just click to get, but all the stuff in there was minumum 6 months old. Too old considering some software was onto a complete new version... Linux has to become more user friendly to be installed in a companies work stations.

And yes kids only know how to use Ms software. Reason being that it is the predominant business software out there. Ms provides tech support and prices its software accordingly. And to not install updates at all is just stupid. Ever heard of Metasploit? Free program. It's a hacking platform. Load a vulnerability and exploit in it then hit a target. Easy as to use. What about Milworm? It's a site that has exploits. The Ms updates are their for a reason. Most major viruses attack old vulnerabilities. Not 0day exploits, holes that have been known about for 6 months or more... I don't install Ms updates right away as they have a bad habit of not working properly straight away. But leaving it more than a month is idiotic.

And you know what Vistas problem was? It's secure... Those boxes that popup which everyone hates really do stop most viruses and worms. Because nothing gets changed without the user knowing about it. But it's waaay too annoying so it gets disabled. Smart... Another problem was that it won't run on old comps. You can install Linux on a wristwatch so you should be able to install Windows! Not quite... Maybe some of us like to run software not dating back to the Windows 95 days... Or play games more recent than Doom or Quake III... Linux still has dodgy as graphics support. Driver support in general actually...

I don't even like Ms but that comment was just too dodgy. Now I'm off to install FreeBSD with a book larger than my Uni textbooks... Some of us have the spare time needed to waste learning indepth programming and OS facts but not all of us... Remember that the next time you bag out Ms users for not using Linux. Which is just a Unix ripoff anyway..


A minor addon, a major complaint here is that Ms sells unstable and virus prone products. That's not entirely true... They do seem to be particulary vulnerable to buffer overflows but overall they aren't that bad. The reason viruses continually target Windows and Ms products isn't because they're easier to hit than Mac or Linux, it's because everyone uses them. Why spend months crafting the perfect virus for Ubuntu? The return on that will be small enough to be dismissable. You won't get financial data, backdoors in servers, mass hysteria etc. As soon as people start using a different OS then that OS will be the one hit with enough viruses to kill it just like Windows. Apply some thought here peoples... Do try to think through things before making stupid statements.

Windsong, no you do not understand my complaints about hotmail. Although I am a hot head, I think I give software developers a fair amount of slack. Yahoo is a fine stable application. I would not complain if my account was blown away if it was free and I had not used it in 6 months. My paid for hotmail account that still had over 6 month of contracted time, was blown away twice in two months, once while I was in it. That was not a software problem but a hardware problem. The software problems in hotmail are constant. I am sure it has to do with the core functions in the libraries they used. I have NEVER used the ‘new’ hotmail without some kind of minor problem. I use it several hrs each day. Sometimes you can’t edit a forwarded message unless you switch from the default editing to plain text. Sometimes the buttons disappear, sometimes the scroll bars disappear. Today’s problem for me is the windows for the message and contact list have resized themselves to tiny with no way to resize them. However, when I went it to see what the contact list was named the windows are now the correct size. The bugs vary from hour to hour. I have no idea what this hr’s bug is. Oh and for chrissd and anyone else I have these problems with up-to-date everything at work. So it is not caused by my updates are turned off at home.

chrissd, I can only agree some with a few of your statements the rest are pretty much 'out there'. Again you sound as if you get a paycheck in some way related to M$. I remember this kind of irrational support for the Mac from a member. Later, it came out that person was a salesman for Mac. Everyone writes viruses for M$ because that is the most common OS. Would waste their time writing a virus for another OS?

Maybe you feel persons without the most up-to-date software should be treated like DOGs? Do you feel that way about everything else? Do you always drive the latest model car? You buy a new house every year? I am sure you must have something you don’t want to throw away every year.

A large portion of my soft ware library is Win 95 or earlier. I spent a few grand to buy the stuff over years and I do not have the money to replace them all. I have more than 1 computer. All with legal software. The kid's computer is all XP vintage and they experiance no problems. I guess you figure that is my problem and that I should have no rights because I am not current. My huge beef with M$ is not that my old dog eared software does not work. It is why it does not work. Years after XP was released, a certain upgrade created problems. I am certain it was a conscious effort for force upgrades. They hoped if the users were annoyed often enough they might buy all new software.

CHRISSD TELL ME HOW SABOTAGING MY SOFTWARE TO COMPELL ME TO BUY NEW SOFTWARE IS IN THE LEAST BIT ETHICAL? IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN THAT ONE AWAY YOU OUGHT TO BE IN POLITICS!

Good on Microsoft. Millons of chinese not using the genuine article have been thumbing their noses at the USA for years. They're even accusing Microsoft of hacking their system with WGA! lol

Good Lord Mez...if you can't understand why your Old software doesn't work with the new MS OS's, then you are beyond help friend. It also wasn't an update that changed things either...maybe you should look elsewhere.
Please don't equate old cars to computers either, they simply cannot be used in comparison for many obvious reasons, unless they start changing the structure of gasoline every 3 years or so...
Computer technology changes at too fast a rate for older s'ware to be used forever, even tho you may want it to last that long it simply isn't possible. If you want to run w95 s'ware then stick with w95 OS but don't complain because your 14 year old s'ware doesn't run on XP or Vista. The OS has evolved and your s'ware library has not and in an effort to limit vulnerabilities MS has finally stopped trying to be backwards compatible with Legacy products.
The new OS is far more secure because of this shift in tactics by MS and for many of us this was long overdue because trying to maintain backwards compatibility simply carried over exploit vulnerabilities from OS to OS. Buffer Overflow exploits have been eliminated now because of this change as have many others as well, so maybe it's time you get with the (new) program(s). Otherwise, stick with W95/98 and stop complaining simply because the techno world moves forward while you stay stuck in the DOS world.

Good Lord, ChappyTTV try reading the post more carefully and think before post your comment to the world. I do know why it does not work, it was sabotaged. I stated that clearly enough. The software did not stop functioning because of an I/O improvement that might improve performance somewhere in the system. It was sabotaged long after any real improvements had been added. It wasn't even sabotaged well because it still works fine depending on how you get into it. However, that is not my issue. My issue is I believe it is unethical to use OS updates to sabotage software. Can I guess that you think this is OK? Do you believe anyone that doesn’t keep current should be punished?

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It also wasn't an update that changed things either...maybe you should look elsewhere.

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If that statement isn’t condescending I don’t know what is. You were not there when it happened. I do not think you know what the OS was nor what version the software of the app is nor what the perceived problems in the app are nor which update was made but you believe you know more about the problem than I do. So unless you think you are an omnipotent being that would be a totally senseless thing to say.

My guess is you obviously greatly over estimate your technical prowess you appear clueless as to what real changes were made when. Please prove me wrong, I like to learn. Maybe you do know something useful I don't know. TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED. Tell me what REALLY happened to my software and why it doesn’t work, the more technical the explanation, the better. I don't mind apologizing if I discover you are not a COMPLETE buffoon.

Reason for edit - no use replying, some things will never change and "opinions" are a prime example.

ChappyTTV, we can agree with that. Opinions are hard to change.

Sorry I went off. I am a computer programmer and although I have not seen the code, I have an extremely good idea what happened. I believe a decision was made by management to annoy persons that had very old software. Programmers would have spotted the problem and the manager said do not worry about it. This happens a great deal.

You sooooo rubbed me the wrong way that you would discount what I thought and tell me I didn't understand without any information on your end. Your hubris and ignorance reminded me of a software manager. The biggest complaints of programmers are that we are now all under the control of ‘use car salesmen’. They are more slippery than greased Teflon pig and tell you to do stupid things that blame the programmer. Not all software managers are like this but most of the work for small companies where the owner care more about results than BJs.

The specifications of XP stated that it would run my software without problems. I believe software ought to do what it states it can do. Obviously you think differently as long as you don’t mind the discrepancies. If you don’t mind no one else should either. You stating that that doesn’t matter without any reasoning behind your statement doesn’t make me believe you.

I have made my opinion over decade from hundreds of observations. You just telling me my opinion is wrong without any reasoning doesn’t cut it with me. That will not cut it with many members. I do not tell you are wrong because you waste your money upgrading software that has no usable improvements. Do not tell me I am wrong just because I expect the software to do what it is supposed to do.

If you maintain the attitude that you are right and everyone that disagrees with you is wrong will produce a good deal of conflict.

You’re parting comment

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no use replying, some things will never change and "opinions" are a prime example.

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suggests to me the exact blaring arrogance of your first post. My opinion is only an "opinion", real nice! Your opinion is the only right opinion, even though it is groundless. The facts are insignificant compared with how you feel.

You might want to think through why you think someone is wrong before you state they are wrong. If you don't expect lively commentary.

American Citizens Angry at Lack of Toilet paper in Public Restrooms

According to a report from WeDontdoshat.Org, American citizens are upset over the lack of toilet paper.

Who's to blame for this crisis,One American had this to say

"Man im telling you its those freakin near dead custodians, ya cant get rid of im fire 1, 4 more show up to take his place."


We stoped and shook hands and asked a man as he was coming out out the restroom about the crisis at hand here's what he said.

"WTF else is new. i usually just use a pamphlet they got lying around, hell its either that or your hand these days"


well there you have it folks a real American crisis.

DXR88, I think your post is strangely appropriate.

Originally posted by Mez:

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DXR88, I think your post is strangely appropriate.

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Ya think :).

No doubt China will develop their own version of MSFT and take over the world with it -- or perhaps just buy MSFT. We've got to think in the big scheme of things. The tides are against MSFT in the USA.

Originally posted by Mez:

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Oh and for chrissd and anyone else I have these problems with up-to-date everything at work. So it is not caused by my updates are turned off at home.

chrissd, I can only agree some with a few of your statements the rest are pretty much 'out there'. Again you sound as if you get a paycheck in some way related to M$. I remember this kind of irrational support for the Mac from a member. Later, it came out that person was a salesman for Mac. Everyone writes viruses for M$ because that is the most common OS. Would waste their time writing a virus for another OS?

Maybe you feel persons without the most up-to-date software should be treated like DOGs? Do you feel that way about everything else? Do you always drive the latest model car? You buy a new house every year? I am sure you must have something you don’t want to throw away every year.

A large portion of my soft ware library is Win 95 or earlier. I spent a few grand to buy the stuff over years and I do not have the money to replace them all. I have more than 1 computer. All with legal software. The kid's computer is all XP vintage and they experiance no problems. I guess you figure that is my problem and that I should have no rights because I am not current. My huge beef with M$ is not that my old dog eared software does not work. It is why it does not work. Years after XP was released, a certain upgrade created problems. I am certain it was a conscious effort for force upgrades. They hoped if the users were annoyed often enough they might buy all new software.

CHRISSD TELL ME HOW SABOTAGING MY SOFTWARE TO COMPELL ME TO BUY NEW SOFTWARE IS IN THE LEAST BIT ETHICAL? IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN THAT ONE AWAY YOU OUGHT TO BE IN POLITICS!

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Well, you made my day :P

I'm a 20 year old student studying Computer Security so I do actually know what I'm talking about. It isn't entirely ranting from a M$ rep. Now.. Windows 95 software nowadays is not guaranteed to run on anything.. Yes Win XP includes a lot of old DOS files so it will run most DOS, Win 95 programs but not all. Upgrades for Win XP include better support for new programs, and by doing so some support for older software is removed because of incompatibilities.

Now, if M$ ignored the newer software to keep old software working they would have been out of business a long, long time ago. If all your software is Win 95 or older then you realllllllly need to update. Hell, I'm betting you'd be vulnerable to an old 90's virus. Give me your IP and I can check :P

But being serious, upgrade. Yes Microsoft software is expensive but it works. Well, it works unless some idiot has decided to pretend they're cool and make a 10 line piece of code that formats ppls harddrives and works through a whole in Office.. But apart from that..

Also, Win 95 software was made for Win 95. Run a copy of that if you want to use your software. Car manufacturers stop making parts for cars 5 versions later, why not M$?

Now I'm off to buy my new house with my latest model car.. :P
Well, more like a virtual version of it but I can still pretend, right?

chrissd, being a programmer I am sure the bug was on purpose. I am sure the programmers warned management of the ramifications and management said 'f%ckem'. I am really not sure if the apps were 95 I think they were 98. When XP came out it was stated it would run my software which it did for years.

Do not get me wrong, I do think the world would be a lesser place with out M$. However, everyone already got theirs. Even the programmers got stock options. M$ made more millionairs than any other corporation in history. I figure we do not owe them anything now.

I do love that they destroyed the IBM theroy that programmers must wear garter belts to be productive. Yes, garter belts! New employees were checked routinely until everyone was sure they came to work properly dressed. The pizza eating programmers at M$ wearing pizza stained T-shirts blew away the programmers in suits and ties at IBM.

However, I think they have been putting out true crap this century.

how can one compare Windows 9x series a simple strait forward running OS to that running a more complex management system Called NT.

CMD is an emulation of dos-ware program's. hell the NT kernel alone was never 100% with Dos programes.

(@Mez) if you need to run old dos programs give Dosbox a try.

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No these are office products circa Win 98. Microsoft changed the key algorythem. Key codes before XP were mostly numbers now they are letters. Even after installing re-installing them the right click functions do not work but the application works. The programmers know the old algorythem and could have checked it instead they have chosen to annoy me. They didn't kill the app they just fVcking with me because I have a too old for their liking application. I have gone to Live Office which works fine for me.

Open office is a fine piece of software, if your willing to try something free.

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That is what I am using I miss spoke saying I was using Live Office. I just want simple word processing. The fanciest I go is tables and inserted objects.

If I want to edit HTML I use a HTML editor not a word processor. I am stuck with the latest Office at work I really do not like to go through menus to do what I used to do without any menus. The older layout was great.

Ah. okay i thought thats what you meant. in any case goodday Mez

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Thanks DXR88.

I feel the need to explain my terrible aditude. In the good old days software managers were ex-programmers who had gotten too old to program. Now they are mostly used car salesmen. They tell you do do stupid things then try to get the programmers in trouble when it fails. This is a universal complaint in the programming community.

I can see the results in all the products. I can use software and can 'feel' if it is technicalloy sound or not. If it does not 'feel' right it is a good bet a slippery unethical moron was in charge. What you can see and feel is not the the real problem. There will be got-yous where you can't see.

Amen !

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Amen !

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revengine, are you a developer or just notice how even well established software has gone down hill in the last few years.

Well I like java, and yes I've also noticed how some well established software has gone down hill. Sales people will tell you anything to make a sale, lol.

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revengine, that is the point! Quality of the product doesn't matter to most software companies any more; they figure that will just sell harder. Most of the excellent softare that had not gone down hill are created by one man shows where the developer runs the show. This is a generality and is not always the case. There are some large companies that actually put something of value in their upgrades but they are the minority.

Enjoyed this thread; peace out, rev

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