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Nearly 2 weeks into Pirate Bay trial and we're still waiting for evidence

26 February 2009 13:18 by Rich "vurbal" Fiscus | 36 comments

As the Pirate Bay trial continues in Sweden, the prosecution seems to lose credibility every day. The last two days' proceedings highlight a distinct lack of evidence or legal arguments on the part of prosecutors and their recording industry counterparts.

Earlier this week a so-called expert provided by the IFPI managed to prove only that his investigation of The Pirate Bay was tainted by inaccurate assumptions about how BitTorrent works. This was followed by a day of (conveniently evidence-free) recording industry claims of P2P downloads harming the music industry.

There's probably a good reason he didn't try to back this up with actual numbers (outside of CD sales) - because they numbers don't back him up at all. According to Billboard Magazine, concert attendance in 2008 was the same as 2007 despite higher ticket prices.

CD sales, on the other hand, were down significantly. In other words the music industry is doing fine as long as you're talking about musicians rather than label executives.

Thursday's testimony came from experts who aren't on label payrolls, and predictably it brought the prosecution's evidence into question.

Equally predictable was the reaction of IFPI lawyer Peter Danowsky. Rather than adressing Professor Roger Wallis' claim that P2P downloaders spend more money on music than most other people, Danowsky chose to question his credentials.

Wallis attributes lower spending on music to the growth of other industries, such as video games. Retail trends from recent years would seem to back his assertion.

He also pointed out how restrictive music licensing makes it impossible to buy some music online no matter how hard you try to pay for it. This is nothing new for Wallis who has criticized the industry in the past for their attempts to control internet distribution rather than profiting from it.

Is it any surprise the defendants are so confident in the trial's outcome? It's hard to believe they can lose based on the prosecution's evidence.

Quite frankly they don't seem to have any.

Permalink to this article | Topics: Lawsuits & Legislation MP3 & Digital Audio Online music services

Judge delivers guilty verdict in Pirate Bay trial - watch video (17 April 2009)

Researchers warn of P2P 'guilt by association' attack (10 April 2009)

Investigator paid by Warner not available for Pirate Bay trial (24 February 2009)

80% of torrents on Pirate Bay are for legal content says defendant (23 February 2009)

IFPI website hacked to protest Pirate Bay trial (19 February 2009)

Pirate Bay admins win half their case in a day (17 February 2009)

Internet piracy trial against The Pirate Bay begins (16 February 2009)

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binkie7 (Moderator) 26 February 2009 19:59
@Hunt720 & Lothros Let's keep the language clean - posts edited. Forum Rules Do this before posting Do not click this link... [ + quote]
lawndog (Member) 26 February 2009 20:03
*Originally posted by dude845:* I do not like the Piratebay or the staff who run it. The reason being they kept a childs dead autopsy images stay on there server even after the father asked for it to be removed. That is disgusting. There are MANY trackers that have quality files on it. The lose of the pirate bay wouldn't be to bad for me at least. I'll stick to private sites. Well do you know why they didn't remove it?? Perhaps you should look into it and why they decided to leave it. They have said they would never keep people from information they wanted. (NOT an exact quote) And although I find the thought of the images themselves very disturbing, and can not imagine the heartache the father must feel. TPB stood its ground and it's believe. All they really did was allow access to something people obviously wanted. Is the gun itself wrong, or the people that fire the gun Is the image itself wrong, or the people that look at it. Guns dont kill people, people kill people Just my opinion. But back on topic...... HAHA you over paid RIAA. ticket sales are the same, but yet record sales are down. mmmmmmmmmmm you pissed off the public with your antics now you get to see what happens [ + quote]
binkie7 (Moderator) 26 February 2009 20:11
And let's not turn this thread into the debate on the autopsy video - keep it to the subject at hand. There is an existing thread on the other issue - it's floating around here somewhere. [ + quote]
varnull (Inactive) 26 February 2009 23:21
Screw it K .. there isn't enough intelligence on this site to power a small watch. The same old whiners still .. STILL ...whining on that TPB didn't remove LEGAL PUBLIC DOMAIN information./.. censorship at it's finest.. it's 100% legal.. and 100% public domain... but we don't like it whine whine whine whine...bet it's somebody from the gun crime and drug crime capital of the world there whining on pro censorship.. the world has icky things in it.. when they are legal to see and public domain you have no right to deny access to those who want to look.. grow up and get over yourself. pastures new for me.. and did you know bits is still down, has been for weeks now. Can somebody send me Fiona Apple.. so I can give a rats behind again? [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26 February 2009 23:35
binkie7 (Moderator) 26 February 2009 23:37
Same deal varnull - keep it clean - post edited. And again if you want to discuss the TPB public domain bit dig up the thread it belongs in. Forum Rules Do this before posting Do not click this link... [ + quote]
bomber991 (Junior Member) 26 February 2009 23:43
While it seems like everything is going good for TPB, we must wait until this ordeal is over and either an innocent or guilty verdict is reached. Who has more money, the pirate bay people or the mpaa/riaa and whoever else is suing? How do we know they won't be paying the judge or jury if there is one. If they claim they loose X amount of dollars every year from TPB, they could just as easily bribe the judge with that same amount of money. [ + quote]
Blackjax (Member) 27 February 2009 0:55
Well I'd go on a rant but I gave it up for lent.... I have used TPB once... I used it to locate a tracker for, then download a new version of Linux. A thought for the labels: Consumers are like water. Water is needed for life, without it life eventually dies, if not respected it can end your life. It would seems the mafiia has chosen to drown?! [ + quote]
DXR88 (Senior Member) 27 February 2009 0:56
Haha, TPB has got this, RIAA has already lost. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27 February 2009 0:57
domie (Member) 27 February 2009 4:55
*Originally posted by bomber991:* Who has more money, the pirate bay people or the mpaa/riaa and whoever else is suing? I dunno but I bet it's a pretty close call as both sides are mega bucks earners. [ + quote]
blueroad (Newbie) 27 February 2009 5:44
i hope they jus win nd b done with it..shove the greedy hands of the corporations back where they rightfully belong..up the place where the sun doesn't shine [ + quote]
varnull (Inactive) 27 February 2009 14:09
edited for what?? retard bashing? or was it in reference to ass.. that's whet jesus rode into jerusalem.. he went in on hiss ass.. then had to carry his bed frame out.. or would AD dare edit the freakin BIBLE too? It's no wonder I quit.. along with all the proper members is it?? we should all add that to every post.. and watch the useless yankeeee impeeeeerialt servers crash.. anybody see them bored out their brains marines sit and listen to ogbamas boring "keynote speech" earlier/ it appears that anti whiner/anti yank sentiments from the remains of the free world aren't allowed here now.. It's lucky I'm a member of sites where rules are upheld fairly and in an unbiassed way. long live TPB.. for keeping 100% legal and 100% public domain information and content available.. whether it's distasteful or not.. that's tough .. liike it or lump it.. next you will be saying ban guns and the US marines... go marine corps!! anybody fancy making a gif with ad logo on the receiving end... Dave.. how about you my buddy?? Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. I would rather you hate me for who I am than love me for what I am not. Welcome to the other side of the looking glass Alice [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27 February 2009 14:19
engage16 (Member) 27 February 2009 14:21
The reason the autopsy pictures were not removed is that TPB prides itself on not removing ANY torrent files except when its virus laden, fake, or child pornography... Simple enough! [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27 February 2009 16:29
Lothros (Junior Member) 27 February 2009 15:42
*Originally posted by engage16:* The reason the autopsy pictures were not removed is that TPB prides itself on not removing ANY torrent files except when its virus laden, fake, or child pornography... Simple enough! Fixed for you [ + quote]
engage16 (Member) 27 February 2009 16:28
thank you... my bad... ill fix it Custom built AMD XP 2200+, 80gb HDD, 200gb HDD, 764mb RAM, SONY CD-RW 52x CRX230E, SONY DVD-RW 16x DL DRU-800A, ATI Raedon 9600 128mb Laptop- AMD Athlon X2 64 @1.9ghz, 2gb ddr2 @667mhz, 120 gb hdd, nVidia GeForce 8200m, 8x DVD-DL Burner, 15.4" widescreen, Vista Ultimate SP1 V9 PS2 with clear blue fliptop& swapmagic 3.6 At&t V9 Razr2 w/ 2gb microsd card 30gb Black Video iPod [ + quote]
binkie7 (Moderator) 27 February 2009 19:26
@varnull Nope not just the one word. You know the drill here I would think by now. After all I didn't happen upon this thread by accident.... Forum Rules Do this before posting Do not click this link... [ + quote]
engage16 (Member) 27 February 2009 19:36
Uh-oh... Binkie doesn't sound too happy... Anywho, did you hear about the lineup for Mayhem Fest this summer binkie??? I can't wait =) Custom built AMD XP 2200+, 80gb HDD, 200gb HDD, 764mb RAM, SONY CD-RW 52x CRX230E, SONY DVD-RW 16x DL DRU-800A, ATI Raedon 9600 128mb Laptop- AMD Athlon X2 64 @1.9ghz, 2gb ddr2 @667mhz, 120 gb hdd, nVidia GeForce 8200m, 8x DVD-DL Burner, 15.4" widescreen, Vista Ultimate SP1 V9 PS2 with clear blue fliptop& swapmagic 3.6 At&t V9 Razr2 w/ 2gb microsd card 30gb Black Video iPod [ + quote]
NFaerie (Newbie) 27 February 2009 21:22
This is really stupid. 1st they complain about piracey then they start an expensive court case what they will loose and who has to pay for it? US, the music buyers so if they didnt complain the prices wouldnt go up and we could all afford to buy more music but the way they are going about all this complaining its cheaper and easier to get it pirated and we stop paying for these stupid court cases. [ + quote]
binkie7 (Moderator) 27 February 2009 23:23
@engage16 Nah - it's just the internet after all :) Gotcha in the concert thread. Forum Rules Do this before posting Do not click this link... [ + quote]
xtago (Newbie) 1 March 2009 11:01
I havn't kept up with this case much. My understanding is the MPAA/RIAA are sueing TPB for being a link in the piracy chain, just because a torrent doesn't hold any data doesn't mean they arn't allowing people to pirate copyrighted files. I'd be certain that sweedish laws would require lics for those movies to be played etc. Same with the autopsy files wouldn't be public domain but private medical files so should be removed as the TPB would be breaking privacy laws. It'd be like someone grabbing ALL your private details dumping them onto a torrent putting it up on TPB and then you send a remove my private details from your server and TPB replies with "well it's all public domain now, tough luck about that" all the while people are running around getting pasports and credit cards, doing crimes/fraud with your details forcing you to change your whole identy etc and pay any/all debt back to banks etc. If what I'm thinking ius correct then I couldn't see how TPB would last anyway as the head said for every 1000 torrents they have 20% (200 torrents) are pirated files. Now they are showing how to make torrents then put them onto TPB so anyone can download the files via the torrent, I mean what evedince does the MPAA/RIAA have to provide when TPB are providing everything for them. As proving TPB is sending people pirated data is one thing but not the same as TPB providing an avenew for people to get the pirated data in the first place. The other thing is MPAA/RIAA could just court grind TPB you know just keep TPB in court for years while totaling up the bills in case TPB loses. As MPAA/RIAA are sueing AUstralian ISP iiNet for the exact same thing where they are letting people download pirated files via their network and Australia has the same sort of laws as USA since the freetrade agreement. [ + quote]
sorda (Newbie) 12 March 2009 15:04
i see both sides of it. if i were a corp and i sold something that someone could get on TPB for free i'd be livid. i also feel like those same companies are tryin to squeeze every last penny out of the buying public. look at what radiohead did with their last album, they gave the consumer the option to pay whatever they wanted and wouldn't you know ppl actually paid an average amount of $10 even though they could download it for free! [ + quote]
brideslov (Inactive) 15 March 2009 8:26
spam removed [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15 March 2009 11:50
Buzzard57 (Newbie) 25 March 2009 16:13
Is there a thread for people who are interested in trading invite codes for private torrent sites? [ + quote]
binkie7 (Moderator) 25 March 2009 17:51
*Originally posted by Buzzard57:* Is there a thread for people who are interested in trading invite codes for private torrent sites? No and if you read the rules you'll see that requesting or offering which would include trading of code is not allowed. [ + quote]
Buzzard57 (Newbie) 27 March 2009 10:57
Really!!! I just read the rules again and saw absolutely nothing to that nature whatsoever. If you�d like to show what rule you are referring I would be extremely happy to offer up an apology to you and everyone on this forum. B Burbitz [ + quote]
DXR88 (Senior Member) 27 March 2009 11:31
*Originally posted by Buzzard57:* Really!!! I just read the rules again and saw absolutely nothing to that nature whatsoever. If you�d like to show what rule you are referring I would be extremely happy to offer up an apology to you and everyone on this forum. Requesting for or offering invites to private sites (such as private torrent trackers or similar private P2P sites) is not allowed. This rule has been requested by several private site administrators, and we honor their request. (Penalty: 2 day ban) http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487 scroll down past the 15 general rules and the nice picture and read those rules [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27 March 2009 11:34
Buzzard57 (Newbie) 27 March 2009 16:53
Well then, here is my official apology as promised. To binkie7 and all members of this thread as well as the entire site I express regret for breaking a rule. Most of the times it�s not what one says but rather the manner in which they say it that offend another. As a moderator I would expect you take a moment to more politely explain a point to a fellow member. Thank you for your time. I suppose I understand why this rule is in place, however ignorant the reasoning, the reasoning exists. As for a comment on Pirate Bay, I stand firm on the belief P2P and Torrent sites are not harming the entertainment community, to the contrary there is more evidence supporting the notion people will purchase more tickets to live concert venues having had the opportunity hear more of an artist�s music than is available over local media. (In most cases) Fin! B Burbitz [ + quote]