news stories are one source of information. At least they get your attention. I want to read what what the act will really do. Not just hear some politician's oration or read some reporter's filtered account.

I have no problem with copywrite owners wanting to be compensated for their efforts & expenses. That is the thrust of this legislation. Protecting what they created.

Now, I do have a problem with corporations/Organizations being allowed to "spy" on me. "What are you downloading". "Where did you get it from". It's none of their damn business! What we are talking about is no different than their being able to eavesdrop on telephone conversations or opening your postal (snail mail) mail. Just because it is electronic does not diminish our right to privacy, as guarenteed (sp?) by the constitution of the USA.

From what I have read & digested so far is that it codifies what theft is & what the penalties are

TC

I agree with you completely buik. You don't see people legally reading classified government information from FBI and CIA databanks. So why should these clowns be able to see what i'm doing at my work ? that is a violation of privacy and a violation of the ammendment "all people have the right to be treated equally" besides there is no possible cost effecient way to properly distribute funds from the according pirate to the according artist (some underground artists get 10$ from every CD they sell some get 10cents.)This new law is just a way for politicians and record labels to get fatter by once again sticking it to the people who already have less than they do.

Buik: Just meant to suggest you START by reading the news story.

Your comment seems to suggest you are actually concerned about some things that were covered in that news story: the question of eavesdropping and the fact that lawsuits from both the RIAA/Studio's and the JD simultaneously were not ruled out.

What does your last sentence mean about codifying theft and penalties? Do you consider this proposed legislation is doing that and therefore may actually be 'good' by clarifying the rules of the game?

Buik: I think it is OK - even desirable - to have some trust in the media.

'Reporters' are supposed to do just that: report on the information and provide some point-of-views from both sides of the issues. The news.com story provided a good introduction like that.

It is true that we have gotten used in the last few years to very biased news media: FOX for the right, NPR/PBS for the left. We have had to become more suspicious of our information sources...

Also, remember that this forum - in broad terms - now represents an aspect of the media. Following the rule of never trusting anything reported in the media, would also mean that anything you and I put down in this forum is intentionally biased, unreliable and not worth looking at.

The RIAA are really creating their own problem. The more they try to block others from having fair use of their property the more we will see applications such as DVD Shrink. I too would rather have the government involved than the RIAA. Perhaps the government will soon discover that a majority of P2P users are young teenagers, who not having the money to buy the latest overpriced hit song or DVD, find it all too tempting to download them. When the government begins to relize that they've bought into something that has the potential to make criminals of America's youth, they will be forced to write legislation to protect them.

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So why should these clowns be able to see what i'm doing at my work?

If you mean your job (work), then there's a very good chance your employer is already doing this. They have that right as they own the equipment you are using and are paying you to do their work.

... there is no possible cost effecient way to properly distribute funds from the according pirate to the according artist ...

Spot On! There is no equitable way to do this either.

... politicians ...

In the end, that's what it's all about. Politicians vote on these things based on how much money their campaigns get from the people involved. In the case of the MPAA vs. 3-2-1 Studios, the latter doesn't have a chance - they are outoutgunned by the MPAA who has money they haven't even spent yet.

You can get as many names as you want on a "Fair Use" petition or send as many emails as you want to your local politician, but that doesn't put the pork chops on his table.

Such is the way of life ...

Rather than saying "codifying" I probably should have said that it clarifies and updates lanuguage, already in place, in an existing law.

How many people remember what a phonograph is? An LP? A 45? (one song on each side) Yes, I am dating myself a bit.

I have read the original news story. The RIAA & MPAA seem to want to get the DOJ to use a "shotgun approach" towards P2P networks. The DOJ has more important things to do than preserving the revenue flow to individuals & corporations. Keeping another 911 style attack from happening is one of them. I think that if the RIAA & MPAA had their way, P2P software & networks would be totally illegal. Simply because it "could" affect their bottom line.

My government is allowed to do certain things in order to ensure my safety & well being. Protecting corporations is not one of them, when it comes my individual rights.

The RIAA & MPAA are using the same arguments they made decades ago when the VCR came into use. They lost back then. They want their monopoly back. Also, they want us to have to buy their "garbage" so that they can continue to enjoy the lifestyle they have grown used to. Now, if we should mess up the original product we purchased, they want us to buy another new product. More money for them that way. It's all about money & power.

Sorry about that rant.

I do not want non-government entities being allowed to invade my privacy. Whether it is the US Mail, on the telephone or on the internet. They have no right to intrude. They would scream bloody murder if anyone were to scrutinize their activities like they seem to want to do to us.

I am neither opposed to, or, for the proposed legislative ammendment. That it still allows concurrent civil and criminal court cases is a mute point. That has always been the case. Now, if the RIAA & MPAA are going to use the investigative powers of the government to give them info for a civil suit.....well, it is public information at that point. The government, at any level. still needs to have "probable Cause" before it can do anything.

Now, should companies & organizations be allowed to invade my privacy in the hopes of catching me violating any law??? Heck no!! If I am blatantly violating a law, hammer me. Don't scutinize my daily life to see if I might be trying to replicate a bunch of bits & bytes that come over the internet.

I do not advocate theft, piracy or anything like that. I just want a little privacy. If I go beyond my simple request and cause major economic damage to an individual or company, then spank me.

TC

Like many other issues I have commented on before, the matter always boils down to the issue of PRIVACY, which is constantly being invaded. Kick a couple of your Senators in the butt, especially these old dogs that never seem to retire. These Congressmen that come up with these brainstorms apparently are still taking bribes in the form of spoils from Corporate America. Let's get some limitation on how long some of these old dogs can stay in office. Protect your privacy, or else you will discover that you have none!
Best to All
Rodgers

It is good to see that some people are becoming aware that this "War on copyright infringement" goes way beyond squeezing people's ability to get pop songs and hollywood movies for "free". Much of the legislation that has already passed and/or is being considered is very dangerous and detrimental to the public's on-line privacy and fair use rights. The BMC (Big Music Cabal) and hollywood also want public tax dollars to fund their war against their customers. Speak out!!!

Buik, you seem like an intelligent sort. Please look further into Senator Hatch's record and what/who he "represents" on the business side of legislation. IMHO I think you will find that he lives inside the pockets of his corporate benefactors full time.

Just the mention of the name "Senator Hatch" makes me want to puke ... and I am a Canadian :)

To respond to Auslander's comment about moving to Canada, It's not that simple. The rules here (I'm in Canada) on immigration are just as restrictive as what you have there. It's not as easy to get into Canada as it was in the Vietnam era.

Anyhow, the present government here is just as pro-corporate as any you have there, so I don't expect our present copyright law to stay as fair as it is for long :-(

There is some small hope here though as we have an election coming up soon and the present buffoons in office here are less than popular. Unfortunately their main competition is even more pro-corporate, and right-wing fanatic to boot. I don't expect the lefty party will get enough votes to get in.

So what will you do if Canada goes the way of the US, pack up & move again? Use your energies to help transform your country... work toward a change. Others like you are already doing this... join them. Help your counrtry live up to the high ideals upon which it was founded.

You'd think that nature would have provided politicians with a built in coin slot so that we could just plug them with nickels like we would a parking meter to get at least 15 minutes of honest legistlation.

Sophocles, politicians do have coin slots just like parking meters. The thing is, the coin pays for the legislation that the coin provider chooses, not honest legislation. Honest? What are you smokin'? Big biz makes it their biz to keep all those meters maxed out. Besides that, the average joe just doesn't have nearly enough coin...

i believe "coin slot" was accidentally used instead of "money pit". cheers!

This certainly has generated some interest. Good. Good. Get people thinking. Maybe even acting in a productuve way.

Grayarea: Please, please don't make me re-create the wheel. If you have data that I can review regarding Orrin Hatch, I will be more than happy to review it and discuss it. Probably outside of this thread. Hey maybe we could use a P2P network to share such info.

It is the "proposed ammendment" and it's ramifications that deserve greater attention. Mr Hatch has received two thumbs down so far in this thread. How about Mr Leahy ( who is probably the principal author)???

There are too many laws in place as it is. I don't want to see any more, that we have to try & abide by & the authorities may try to enforce. The one who make the most out of these situations are the Trial Lawyers.

Night all

TC

i wonder when there will be an update on this story. ive been checking daily.

Alas! we can only move as fast as the information is made available and if you have anything new the you will set it in motion.

kenmo said something about living up to the high ideals upon which this country was founded, even though it has been a year since i've been in a us history class i seem to remember that there was a big battle between two groups of people when the present constitution was written. one group wanted this country to be industrialized, it was led by alexander hamilton i think, and the other wanted this to a very rural country and it was lead by thomas jefferson. of course hamilton won and his legacy continues even today. if you really want to change your congressmen's mind though, go to DC and talk to him. i don't know about other states but the montana congressmen are obligated to hear out any montana resident and so it is really easy to get our ideas to the people who make decisions.

Anyone who absolutely needs thousands of mp3's couldn't possibly listen to them all in an entire lifetime or they are just totally obsessed and should get professional help. Anyone else is probably an entertainer like a DJ that will make money from playing music and should not have a gripe about paying a small monthly fee to access songs.

Solution:
For $9.99/mo. subscribe to Real Rhapsody internet radio (or another service}.
You can choose any song at any time and make your own play lists. If you need to copy, just record it to your hard drive. Sure it takes a few minutes to record however, by the time you weed through all the bad files you download for free, it will actually take less time. Good deal considering you could get 100's of hours of music for less than the cost of a few CD's.

hmm...interesting points...

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mrmagoo5

The $9.95 a month that Rhapsody charges does not include free downloads to your hard disk, there's a $.79 charge for each song. Of course if you're using a stream recorder and recording them for free then that's technically pirating which is no different than downloading them. Also since stream recorders record the sound from your audio card that too can set a limitation to the overall qulity of your mp3.

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Hello to all- I got tired of all the hullabaloo and the poor download sites that are available, so being old fashioned, I use the old method of "induced recording", which entails plugging into my favorite radio station and downloading to my hard drive via Nero. I get all the audio I am interested in and can edit it later if necessary. Try it, you might like it!
Best to All,
Rodgers

Sophocles

The riot act states that it is legal to record music for personal use.

Most sound cards today reproduce sound at quality levels higher than CD's. The human ear can not tell the difference.

Rodgers

Recording from a radio station is one solution however, you don't have much choice of what you want to hear. A subscription service lets you listen to whatever you want, whenever you want, and has the ability to create play lists, which eliminates much of the time consuming task of having to edit the recordings later.

mrmagoo5

Do you mean the fair use law?

When you sign on to a subscription service such as Rhapsody you are signing on to have paid access to copyrighted material. Part of the agreement is that if you want to keep a song and download it to your hard disk or burn it you must pay for it. This is different than copying from a commerical FM station and the content is of higher quality. Most sound cards are crap especially if they're integrated.

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Mr Magoo, I have all the choices that anyone else has when I record from my radio. I choose a favorite station that plays the kind of music that I like and that has minimal if any commercials. You can't beat the quality or the price!
Rodgers