going to finish that thought, boneslave?

*edit*
seemed relevent to post my own run-ins with those who preach a societal "survival of the fittest"

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Originally posted by eandtc:

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"If the Natives were worthy of this land, they would have been able to defend it."

American here. I have to say, I don't like the pretense that people who used the land sensibly are "less worthy" of that land than people who simply kill others and then abuse the land. That's inane.

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You wouldn't be here if that didn't happen in the past...and it's not like this is something exclusive to the people now known as Americans. ALL groups of people have done this, like most creatures, humans are territorial.

Are you telling me that if a person you don't know walks up onto your porch, you're just going to let him? Then what, let him into your house? Or are you going to get defensive, and possibly violent if that person comes too close.

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"Survival of the Fittest" is not the end-all-be-all, and your perception of it presumes that people who depend on technology in order to survive are "fitter" than hardier people who can live off the land. Lord knows how many Americans would die off if they lost all their modern conveniences - houses, cars, roads, Blackberries, electricity, supermarkets, hospitals, etc. That would be the ultimate "Survivor".

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No, my perception does not depend on technology...I simply stated that in the cases of Europeans vs Native Americans, the European technology gave them the upper hand. Humans' main asset is their increased intellect, so it's natural that the group of people who use that intellect to innovate (european settlers) rather than letting it go to waste trying to live like a primate of the land (native americans) will come out on top.

Becoming too dependent on technology isn't good either, sure, you detonate an EMP in the major US cities and it will certainly throw America off its horse...but the same holds true for most 1st world countries. Imagine an EMP in Tokyo...that place would grind to a screeching halt.

Originally posted by ZippyG:

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You wouldn't be here if that didn't happen in the past...and it's not like this is something exclusive to the people now known as Americans. ALL groups of people have done this, like most creatures, humans are territorial.
Are you telling me that if a person you don't know walks up onto your porch, you're just going to let him? Then what, let him into your house? Or are you going to get defensive, and possibly violent if that person comes too close.

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that's completely different from what you stated before. what you're saying right here is that because it's okay to defend your own home, it's okay to go take someone else's.

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Sorry bout that, screwed up my reply. I was saying that ppl shoudnt get riled up over others veiws, If you were to say America is full of crazy, fucked up, racist I would reply " so you been here before, huh"

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Originally posted by ZippyG:

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I don't view that as a bad thing. Survival of the fittest - that's how it works throughout nature. The strong dominate the weak, and in the case of America, Europeans had superior technology to the natives and as able to use that to claim - conquer - this chunk of land for themselves. If the Natives were worthy of this land, they would have been able to defend it.

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ya know, the germans has some very similar views develop in the 1930s...it led to the death of 6 million people who were "inferior" to the aryans, outside of the deaths in the most global fighting that has ever occurred. our nation took a great stand against these bullspit views when they finally affected us.

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See I have a diffrent view on that, England and most other countries when they conquor they do it for land expansion and dont always slaughter the other culture, The nazis were killing anybody they didnt like for no other reason then they did not believe they had a right to live.

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that's completely different from what you stated before. what you're saying right here is that because it's okay to defend your own home, it's okay to go take someone else's.

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No it's not different. Let's say that there were no laws protecting individual property, like your house. If someone wanted your house, they could attempt to come take it from you by force. You can either stand and fight, or run and flee. If that someone trying to take your house wants it more than you, then chances are he'll get it regardless of what you do...but if you really want it, then you'll make sure that you keep the other person from getting it at all costs.

Now transpose that over to the country level...at that time there were no laws protecting the inhabitants of the American continent, so it basically boiled down to who wanted the land more. Winner takes all, loser gets whatever the winner is willing to give them. The native americans originally outnumbered the settling Europeans by quite a bit, but they did not take preemptive action...not only that, but they were fighting amongst themselves about (you guessed it - land).

If you look at the situation in Iraq right now...even tho the US has superior technology and weaponry, the insurgents can still put up a fight by making the most of what they got. They don't have all the resources that the US has, but they really believe in their cause, whereas the US forces are just there because they're following orders. You might say that the US "won" the war, but I bet you the insurgents didn't spend billions of dollars putting up the fight that cost American taxpayers huge sums of money...so who REALLY won?

extreme racists seem to be about 1% of the population, yet that's all it takes to completely screw up life for the other 99%.

keeping what you own and taking what someone else owns against their will are two completely different things with entirely different moral values. no sane, logical, moral, just person will ever equate them.

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"You wouldn't be here if that didn't happen in the past..."

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Gee, I probably wouldn't be here if the Holocaust hadn't occured, or bubonic plague, or [enter terrible event here]. You know, Butterfly effect and all that. Doesn't make those things right. Poor reasoning, dude.

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"and it's not like this is something exclusive to the people now known as Americans. ALL groups of people have done this, like most creatures, humans are territorial."

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Again, doesn't make it right, or good.

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"Are you telling me that if a person you don't know walks up onto your porch, you're just going to let him?"

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You see, the problem is, you are applying "survival of the fittest" to everything in life, and that isn't what the concept was created to describe. It was referring to the interplay between environment and genetics, not self-defense or "Manifest Destiny". Apples and oranges.

Here's the problem. If that dude tries to come into my house, and despite my best efforts I am unable to stop him, then by your reasoning my house belongs to him.

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"rather than letting it go to waste trying to live like a primate of the land (native americans) will come out on top."

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LOL. "Waste"? Americans "wasted" more than the native Americans ever did. You're funny, dude. Interesting that you are biased against people who cannot defend themselves.

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"If you look at the situation in Iraq right now...even tho the US has superior technology and weaponry, the insurgents can still put up a fight by making the most of what they got. They don't have all the resources that the US has, but they really believe in their cause, whereas the US forces are just there because they're following orders. You might say that the US "won" the war, but I bet you the insurgents didn't spend billions of dollars putting up the fight that cost American taxpayers huge sums of money...so who REALLY won?"

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Awesome point!

Originally posted by Auslander:

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extreme racists seem to be about 1% of the population, yet that's all it takes to completely screw up life for the other 99%.

keeping what you own and taking what someone else owns against their will are two completely different things with entirely different moral values. no sane, logical, moral, just person will ever equate them.

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Wow! Did you perform the racism survey yourself? Glad we have someone to substantiate the discussions here with accurate statistical data. Where did I say I was equating keeping and taking?

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Gee, I probably wouldn't be here if the Holocaust hadn't occured, or bubonic plague, or [enter terrible event here]. You know, Butterfly effect and all that. Doesn't make those things right. Poor reasoning, dude.

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Um, no. It's not a butterfly effect. You're here because America was conquered by European settlers. Nobody is talking about right or wrong...and quite frankly, what may seem wrong to you is right to someone else. I'm sure the Europeans didn't think they were wrong for conquering this land.

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"and it's not like this is something exclusive to the people now known as Americans. ALL groups of people have done this, like most creatures, humans are territorial."

Again, doesn't make it right, or good.

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Again, this isn't a chat about your views on righteousness...why would you apply the concept of "right and wrong" to a biological process anyway? Is it wrong for lions to hunt and kill for food? I'm sure if you ask the animal being hunted, they'll tell you a different story than the hunter.

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You see, the problem is, you are applying "survival of the fittest" to everything in life, and that isn't what the concept was created to describe. It was referring to the interplay between environment and genetics, not self-defense or "Manifest Destiny". Apples and oranges.

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Survival of the fittest, genetic selection, natural selection...whatever you wanna call it, filters down throughout the whole spectrum of life on this planet. From single-celled organisms up to us. It's a fact of life that you really can't disagree with, because we're all subject to it.

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Here's the problem. If that dude tries to come into my house, and despite my best efforts I am unable to stop him, then by your reasoning my house belongs to him.

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Yes, assuming there was no law enforcement or things of that sort to keep civil order. If everyone had to fend for themselves, then those who could not stand their ground would fall while the more aggressive individuals rise to the top. Oh Wait! That happens all the time...that's why we have, rich, poor and middle class.

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LOL. "Waste"? Americans "wasted" more than the native Americans ever did. You're funny, dude. Interesting that you are biased against people who cannot defend themselves.

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People are quite wasteful by nature, they disrupt the natural balance. That's an issue with the species that is on top of the food chain...Americans may live "wastefully" (these days a lot more people are conscientious about their impact on the environment), but the native americans and other groups of people who do not pursue to improve their intellects waste their human potential. That is why they lost to the Europeans. It's not like Europe got some special manual that showed them how to innovate technologically, anyone COULD HAVE done the same.

Now how am I biased against those who cannot defend themselves? I'm merely talking about what happens to them in real-world scenarios. Can you demonstrate that anything I've said so far to be untrue?

Originally posted by ZippyG:

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...Where did I say I was equating keeping and taking?

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did you not even pay attention to your previous posts? you justify the taking of other people's property by equating it with defending your own.

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did you not even pay attention to your previous posts? you justify the taking of other people's property by equating it with defending your own.

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I know what I wrote, and I'm not "justifying" anything. I am STATING that if you cannot defend your own property, a house in my example, then it can freely be taken from you by someone else. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Originally posted by boneslave:

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Sorry bout that, screwed up my reply. I was saying that ppl shoudnt get riled up over others veiws, If you were to say America is full of crazy, fucked up, racist I would reply " so you been here before, huh"

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as a matter of fact, i have - lyk 5 times. to LA, las vegas, and NYC. remember, my cousins are canadian...

grace

haha!
rite bak @ u

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It's kinda funny how just a ban of youtube in thailand led to this nonsense, i feel embarrassed to quarrel with such ignorance namely "ZippyG". your reasoning was way down the hill (going nowhere and just attempts to get back at what was said about your premature reasoning), and after reading the whole thing again, i have come to conclude that you are just a ranting bitch and whoever tries to teach some sense into you is just wasting their time, i feel sorry for you man, seriously!!!
The answer is already there, just shut the fuck up because you cannot compare a place with a king to a place without a king, experience differences are already obvious, smart talking your way out of your ignorant posts isnt getting anyone anywhere...

Originally posted by pheh_dum:

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The answer is already there, just shut the fuck up because you cannot compare a place with a king to a place without a king, experience differences are already obvious, smart talking your way out of your ignorant posts isnt getting anyone anywhere...

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We have the Burger King.

Originally posted by pheh_dum:

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It's kinda funny how just a ban of youtube in thailand led to this nonsense, i feel embarrassed to quarrel with such ignorance namely "ZippyG". your reasoning was way down the hill (going nowhere and just attempts to get back at what was said about your premature reasoning), and after reading the whole thing again, i have come to conclude that you are just a ranting bitch and whoever tries to teach some sense into you is just wasting their time, i feel sorry for you man, seriously!!!
The answer is already there, just shut the fuck up because you cannot compare a place with a king to a place without a king, experience differences are already obvious, smart talking your way out of your ignorant posts isnt getting anyone anywhere...

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Pheh_Dum, thanks for putting some sense into ZippyG. He has been ranting about how Thailand is some FKing shit for as long as I can remember. He is nothing but a idiot with no sense whatsoever!

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Originally posted by pheh_dum:

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The answer is already there, just shut the fuck up because you cannot compare a place with a king to a place without a king, experience differences are already obvious, smart talking your way out of your ignorant posts isnt getting anyone anywhere...

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We have the Burger King.

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Burger King is a food place, damnit! You're such a jerk.

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@ZippyG. You are still at school eh? Do you even have a passport?
You sound like someone who could tell you everything about everything, you know the type " yes it looks like this, the history was that, these people done in those people"
Yeah I remember a quote from a movie, "yeah you could tell me what the Sistine Chapel looks like, when it was built and all that shananagins but, ah bet you couldn't say what it smells like, and what it makes you feel like" Now I am certainly not a religious person, that was only an example. But people like you are only children who dont have worldly wise experience and maturity. Survival of the fittest? sounds like a lot of testosterone from a young teenager to me.
Freedom of speech is like drugs, its ok in moderation.
ZippyG you got a lot of learning to do, and I'm afraid you cant cram that learning into a few years,sunshine. Time will tell whether learn about being morally correct or politically correct.
My opinion is, YOU will never learn,and turn out to be another ignorant little shit!!!!
P.S. The world is full people in that catagory, thats why the world is at war with itself

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Originally posted by witchygal:

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i have one word for you bad-ass americans - even though i must admit that thais are not as rich in money as americans, but have you taken your history lessons?!? georgeluv and zippyg, may i REMIND you that you're nothing but poor fools who want money and fortune, venturing into the native american's OWNED land? they did own the land, and you guys - by force - took their rich land and captured them, turning them into slaves!!! i have a lot of pity on you - you live on STOLEN land, not CLAIMED land! when you say CLAIMED land, you're speaking bs.

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I don't view that as a bad thing. Survival of the fittest - that's how it works throughout nature. The strong dominate the weak, and in the case of America, Europeans had superior technology to the natives and as able to use that to claim - conquer - this chunk of land for themselves. If the Natives were worthy of this land, they would have been able to defend it.

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im sorry to say that - not! ugh, i actually dont know why im spending my study time (yes, i am top of my class; good for me) writing a damn thing for stupid amateurs like you guys. forgive me if im wrong, but my teacher (who is american - omg) said that it is true that the native americans were probably asians (i score 1 mil points, dont i?)!!! too bad, so sad! im actually JUST having fun!!!

- felicity shanna flynn,
proud canadian-thai

PS: i have rights, just like everyone else!!!

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How can something "probably" be "true"? :)

Yes, there is a theory that native Americans immigrated from Asia to this continent across what may have been a land bridge at the Bering Strait. If that happened, it would have happened many years ago. The people living on the American continent at the time the Europeans started settling here were not asian...at most you could say they're of distant asian descent.

PS - Nobody ever said you didn't have rights, and why are you living in Canada if Thailand is so great? :P

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Im living in Thailand!!!

Whatever....I have better things to do. I just wish that you could stop discriminating us Thais because we also have a heart and we don't like people saying bad things about our king because it's bad. I am speaking in a middle sort of way, not siding on anyone. I just think that we should just stop bothering eachother and spend our freetime studying for a test or something...

PS: Nevermind. What's the past is the past. i told it to my friend (she's from the US too) and she hates thailand but she doesn't discriminate. She says that Thais are friendly and nice. Hahahahaha. Caitlynn is so much better than you ZippyG!!!

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Originally posted by joe777:

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@ZippyG. You are still at school eh? Do you even have a passport?
You sound like someone who could tell you everything about everything, you know the type " yes it looks like this, the history was that, these people done in those people"
Yeah I remember a quote from a movie, "yeah you could tell me what the Sistine Chapel looks like, when it was built and all that shananagins but, ah bet you couldn't say what it smells like, and what it makes you feel like" Now I am certainly not a religious person, that was only an example. But people like you are only children who dont have worldly wise experience and maturity. Survival of the fittest? sounds like a lot of testosterone from a young teenager to me.

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I see you whining, but I have yet to see you dispute anything I've stated. Yes, I'm an ignorant teenager if that makes you feel better...but doesn't change the facts that have been presented.

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Freedom of speech is like drugs, its ok in moderation.
ZippyG you got a lot of learning to do, and I'm afraid you cant cram that learning into a few years,sunshine. Time will tell whether learn about being morally correct or politically correct.
My opinion is, YOU will never learn,and turn out to be another ignorant little shit!!!!
P.S. The world is full people in that catagory, thats why the world is at war with itself

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Freedom of speech is good in moderation, huh? You mean, as long as facts go unspoken? :D I love how people complain about freedom of speech when someone doesn't share their views. No, I'm not politically and morally correct, nor would I ever be. Like I said you and all the other whiners have not been able to say, "ZippyG, what you said here IS NOT TRUE AT ALL."

Originally posted by witchygal:

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Im living in Thailand!!!

Whatever....I have better things to do. I just wish that you could stop discriminating us Thais because we also have a heart and we don't like people saying bad things about our king because it's bad. I am speaking in a middle sort of way, not siding on anyone. I just think that we should just stop bothering eachother and spend our freetime studying for a test or something...

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Don't be jealous cuz Burger King totally PWN3D your king. Did your king ever give you a tasty burger for $1? I bet not...but yeah I agree, we should all just be studying for a test or something!

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PS: Nevermind. What's the past is the past. i told it to my friend (she's from the US too) and she hates thailand but she doesn't discriminate. She says that Thais are friendly and nice. Hahahahaha. Caitlynn is so much better than you ZippyG!!!

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People who are friendly and nice come across as deceptive to me.

I think the main thing is that Thais, especially YOU, are really sick of eating peanuts with noodles...they'd rather have chicken fries and a quad stacker that only OUR King can provide.

Ah zippy, I see your just in from school. How was your day? Good? Bad?
Yeah maybe when your a bit older you can rejoin this conversation.
Not any offence, please to other mature young peeps in the group, just making an example of this 1

Hi all,

Seems that we have a difference of opinion(s) which in turn has become slander of cultural differences. Let's respect each not only each other but this site as well so we don't have anyone get banned or suspended. Also this thread is leaning towards political views as well and should be closed. Will ask a mod to take a look at this thread and make the determination.

Forgot for those who were trying to veer this back in the right direction thanks...those who simply joined in the francas please take a look at the following link from the site owner:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/379741

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Thanks to all the moderators for doing your jobs well.
....::::: CLAP :::::....

i am just very annoyed that i cannot access youtube.com
or my most very favorite site in which i have contributed to
quite descently newgrounds.com, and sadly i cant access them cause im in Thailand, there are a lot of other stuff that everybody access from here, and it all got spoilt by poor method of solving the problem in which was done by banning the whole website. I am surely against posting movies of the king in such a bad way, because his majesty never did anything bad to anyone whatsoever.

so does any one know a way that i can bypass this ban other than youtubeproxy.org?, cause i really wanna continue using those resourceful webs.

There is a proxy for linux I use sometimes called JAP proxy. It's Java based so will probably work under Windows. It's an anoymizer (sp) and has some free nodes so maybe that will work for you.