Hey iamgq
Just a little friendly advice, be careful how you speak to people in the forums.
Or the next thing in braclets beside your name might just say(banned)

Peace

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I compared a Blue-Ray disc of King Kong with a HD-DVD disc

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King Kong was never released on BluRay. It's a Universal Studios film and Universal is exclusive to HD-DVD. Maybe you were comparing a regular DVD to an HD-DVD.

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One negative that does not seem to be discussed about the HD-DVD players is that all the sound needs to be mixed and decoded onboard.

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The same is true with BluRay players.

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Because of this you need a HDMI 1.3 compatible receiver that will accept 6 digital bitstreams.

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If you let the player do the decoding then you just need HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 to send the signal to the receiver (or you can use analog outs if your player has them). If your receiver can decode the signals and if you want your receiver to do the decoding then you obviously need HDMI 1.3 on both ends.

techtoys

BR has dropped the old codecs and been using the more advanced ones for the past 7ish months in the end depdning on your video rig its going to look different they are so close most of the time the only real diffrance in them in size,DRM and backers.

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Originally posted by techtoys:

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I have had a HD-DVD player since October so you know what "camp" I am in. When I was making the most important decision of my life :) I compared a Blue-Ray disc of King Kong with a HD-DVD disc and I thought the HD-DVD looked a lot better.

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Are you sure it was the King Kong HD-DVD that you saw? You said you bought your HD-DVD player in October based on watching King Kong but King Kong was released on HD-DVD on November 14, 2006:

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/kingkong2005.html

Maybe he was talking about Superman, which in my opinion, wasn't done well on Blu-ray. I haven't seen the HD-DVD.

Studios are figuring out that people read reviews about picture quality. A few more early titles that stink as far as transfer quality: 50 First Dates, xXx, and The Fifth Element. They are re-making The 5th Element because so many people were upset.

These problems were common early-on with both formats.

Another thing people aren't used to is the amount of grain in movies. You see more of it with these HD titles. The studios either want the HD movie to be more like the original film (or they are just lazy and don't want to tweak the final HD output), so they come out with a lot more grain included than what you'll see in a regular DVD.

Originally posted by Baccusboy:

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Maybe he was talking about Superman, which in my opinion, wasn't done well on Blu-ray.

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I don't think so. The Superman movies were released on November 28, 206 for both HD-DVD and BluRay. He said he decided on HD-DVD in October.

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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techtoys

BR has dropped the old codecs and been using the more advanced ones for the past 7ish months in the end depdning on your video rig its going to look different they are so close most of the time the only real diffrance in them in size,DRM and backers.

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i think maybe you need to reconsider that comment, and do a little research as Blu-ray are fully supportive of crappy mpeg 2 it is only the real blockbusters that are being made mpeg 4 then the media is full of sony spin about the future quality but they are not using it, and mostly all sony pictures are in last generation mpeg 2 and this is the future is it, sound that is worse than a dvd as it lacks DTS es/ex 6.1/7.1 and the same video codec as dvd's why not purchase the dvd DTS ver and upscale it ffs!


Dreamgirls http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=404

Paramount Pictures | 2006 | 131 mins | Rated PG-13 | May 01, 2007

Video
Video codec: MPEG-2
Video resolution: 1080p
Aspect ratio: 1.85:1
Audio
English: Dolby Digital 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1


Failure to Launch http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=251

Paramount Pictures | 2006 | 97 mins | Rated PG-13 | Apr 24, 2007
Video
Video codec: MPEG-2
Video resolution: 1080p
Aspect ratio: 2.35:1

Audio
English: Dolby Digital 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1

Night at the Museum http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=332

20th Century Fox | 2006 | 110 mins | Rated PG | Apr 24, 2007

Video
Video codec: MPEG-2
Video resolution: 1080p
Aspect ratio: 2.35:1

Audio
English: DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1


Volver http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=396

Sony Pictures | 2006 | 121 mins | Rated R | Apr 03, 2007

Video
Video codec: MPEG-2
Video resolution: 1080p
Aspect ratio: 2.35:1

Audio
Spanish: PCM 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1

Originally posted by Baccusboy:

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These problems were common early-on with both formats.

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- LMAO.

Yeah right.......let's see a few independent reviews that claim HD DVD had 'common problems' with the cr@ppy BD MPEG2 releases.

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Another thing people aren't used to is the amount of grain in movies. You see more of it with these HD titles.

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- That wholly depends on the quality of the encode and whether it was oiginally and specifically intended to look like that by the director (as a deliberate effect).

When it's unintended it's usually just a matter of a cr@ppy encode......and the vast majority of those are BD, not HD DVD.

MPEG-2 looks just fine, when done correctly. I have NIN on VC-1, and it has bad moments.

It's all about bitrate, no matter what the codec.

Originally posted by Baccusboy:

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MPEG-2 looks just fine, when done correctly. I have NIN on VC-1, and it has bad moments.

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- The HD DVD version (in VC-1) has a 5 star rating for picture quality & sound quality, it has no "bad moments" -

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The result on this HD DVD edition is fantastic.
Judging any live performance that originated in HD requires a different set of evaluations than film-based material.
Video tends to have a much clearer, "you are there" sheen -- almost like looking out of a picture window, and 'Beside You in Time' is certainly no exception.
Shot entirely with high-def cameras, simply put, this is the best-looking concert video I've ever seen.

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http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/nineinchn...eyouintime.html

- Interestingly they also gave the BD version 5 stars.

Maybe it's your connectors, BD player or your screen?

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It's all about bitrate, no matter what the codec.

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- It isn't.

Once you get past a certain minimum level it's about the efficiency of the codec.
HD DVD has a track record of (with one exception) consistent high quality.
BD on the otherhand has a raft of Mpeg2 movies that look like cr@p and everyone knows it
(barring the BD shills/hydra types & apologists still trying to pretend they're actually quite good - how many times have you ever heard of a movie being re-encoded cos the original looked like sh*t?)

It's widely known that HD DVD with VC-1 can reach transparency with the master, you just can't better that, no matter what BS you want to try claiming.

hughjars, the encode from this concert is identical.

The PQ issues are identical with HD-DVD as they are with Blu-ray.

The '5-star' PQrating you speak of for this title is hardly accurate, and obviously put out by an HD-DVD fanboy site of some kind, if it exists at all.


Of course, HD-DVD fans need to be able to get their disks to play at all, first. This happens to be one of the highest-selling HD-DVD disks on Amazon, by the way.

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While Joe Kane's highly-anticipated calibration disc finally hit stores last Tuesday, many owners of the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on had a rude awakening when they attempted to boot up the disc, experiencing a series of hiccups and outright stalls that rendered key portions of the disc unplayable.

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Source: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/D...ayback_Snag/601

Another note which shows why HD-DVD is unreliable. Due to the HD-DVD production process, they are unable to make a few copies of a title so they can test them in players; they have to do an entire production run before they can test. This is not how it is with Blu-ray. So you could end up wasting an entire run of disks if there is an error. This information was provided by the guy in charge of the NIN project, by the way. Kind of negates any notion that HD-DVD is "cheaper."

speaking of cdoec issues MS seems to be on the rocks with VC-1 didnt they go out of thier way to make it thier main codec?
http://mediacoder.sourceforge.net/blog/?p=11

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I'm getting a little tired of Blu-ray laying claim to victory all the time. It seems like thats a way for them to scare people into buying Blu-ray, by making people believe they won the format war.

HD-DVD has been pretty quiet and only fights comments from Blu-ray, I think they better step up to the plate and fight a little harder if they plan to win this format war. I hope they do win because the Blu-ray disc is very fragile and the quality is a little less compared to HD-DVD.

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honestly you have no idea what you are talking about there, blu ray discs are more durable than dvd you can scrape a cloth on it and it wont get scratched unlike dvd and HD DVD us it has an extra coating. not only that but with more space wuality can only be better, you must be talking about the VC-1 thing but that was solved and bluray has the abilty to use it, its only up to the studios.

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hughjars, the encode from this concert is identical.

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- Yes, but that doesn't mean your own set-up is properly calibrated or problem-free.

You'll also find that even with the supposedly "same encode" the HD DVD version can appear better (Warner movies are well known for this).

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The PQ issues are identical with HD-DVD as they are with Blu-ray.

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- No not necessarily. Fundamentally the problem BD has is that HD DVD is a purpose designed video media and BD is a bulk data storage media, there is a difference.

But OK then, back this up, let's see an independent review saying there are "problems" with the HD DVD encode then.

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The '5-star' PQrating you speak of for this title is hardly accurate, and obviously put out by an HD-DVD fanboy site of some kind, if it exists at all.

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- LMAO.
Typical.

You reckon Highdef digest is "an HD DVD fanboy site" huh?

You really don't have much of a clue do you?

You might try finding out a little bit about the things you're commenting upon.

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Another note which shows why HD-DVD is unreliable.

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- No it doesn't.

It shows that there are a couple of instances where the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on, when connected to the XBox 360 base unit (not a PC btw) has some 'issues'.

(But so what? There is IIRC a firmware upgrade coming in the summer for it.)

Just as with all players there are sometimes 'issues'.

I'm guessing you are too young to know about how it was when SD DVD started?

......and of course you're not going to admit the same thing happens with the BD spec, right?

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Due to the HD-DVD production process, they are unable to make a few copies of a title so they can test them in players; they have to do an entire production run before they can test.

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- Well OK, if you say so but again, let's see you back this claim up then.

Cos the HD DVD "process" is almost identical to the SD DVD one......but go ahead, take us through the stages that are so different & mean short run tests can't be done?

The fact is that it was a lack of testing on the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on when connected to the XBox 360 (it doesn't apply to it when connected to a PC).

It wasn't a problem with the HD DVD stand-alones.

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This is not how it is with Blu-ray.

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- BS.

It is a fact, actually, that BD players have had their "issues" too.

It's how come BD players have had their own firmware upgrading to sort out their "issues" & problems too.

The PS3 alone is on it's, what, 5th firmware a mere matter of months after release?

The Samsung BDP1000 was well known as appallingly bad until they gave it some new softwares - something which killed it's reputation so badly that they are having to be sold off at a massively discounted price in Richer Sounds in the UK, down from £1000 to £350......and still they don't sell.

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Kind of negates any notion that HD-DVD is "cheaper."

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- No, it simply illustrates, once again, the ridiculously half understood, half-truths, selective spin and exaggeration you regularly display here.

Zippy
I read that article (and a couple like it recently) but it doesn't seem to reflect reality IMO.
It says, for instance, that "It’s no wonder that the use of VC-1 has fallen by the wayside."
Which is patently untrue.

Also I found part of the conclusion odd to say the least - "The intervening period of uncertainty has pretty much left VC-1 encoding only scarcely used, except a little on the web, with the exception of its use as an option in both High Definition DVD standards HD DVD and Blu-ray..

It's also the case that as Microsoft continues to develop VC-1 those improvements and efficiencies remain it's own.
(Amir on the AVS forums was describing a couple of months back how VC-1 had achieved transparency with bit-rates as low a 9mb/sec!
This is down from today's usual 12- 14mb/sec, a massive improvement.)

I wouldn't be so quick to write them off in this.

hughjars
with 10 hands in the jar its hard to tell whos rigging what to do what over the VC-1 codec,however they do it MS is still using it as one of its main codecs still.

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Absolutely zippy.

I just wonder where these guys are coming from sometimes.

Not only are they factually incorrect in claiming VC-1 is little used but for some odd reason they discount it's use (which they mention) as a movie codec (which is being used more and more).

On the one hand some want to claim Microsoft are 'the evil empire' and yet on the other they've apparantly "been mugged" cos one of their most successful video software products is widely used and fairly 'open'.

Oh, and one last thing about using the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on with a PC

When it's used with a PC the limitation of 720p or 1080i disappears.

If your (HDCP) graphics card can output 1080p that's what you'll get on your (HDCP) monitor/TV.
Sadly the HDCP business applies to everything but that's just the way it is with all the high def 'flavours' and retail movie discs.

You'll also get the full range of sound that your PC software can output.

All of the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on 'issues' relate to the XBox 360 base unit and it's processing software.
That was the genius of using a software solution, with a PC & better software none of the so-called 'problems' apply.

It's a fantastic little unit and incredible value.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Absolutely zippy.

I just wonder where these guys are coming from sometimes.

Not only are they factually incorrect in claiming VC-1 is little used but for some odd reason they discount it's use (which they mention) as a movie codec (which is being used more and more).

On the one hand some want to claim Microsoft are 'the evil empire' and yet on the other they've apparantly "been mugged" cos one of their most successful video software products is widely used and fairly 'open'.

Oh, and one last thing about using the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on with a PC

When it's used with a PC the limitation of 720p or 1080i disappears.

If your (HDCP) graphics card can output 1080p that's what you'll get on your (HDCP) monitor/TV.
Sadly the HDCP business applies to everything but that's just the way it is with all the high def 'flavours' and retail movie discs.

You'll also get the full range of sound that your PC software can output.

All of the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on 'issues' relate to the XBox 360 base unit and it's processing software.
That was the genius of using a software solution, with a PC & better software none of the so-called 'problems' apply.

It's a fantastic little unit and incredible value.

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I thought HDCP has been bypassed already...mmmm

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Hey hughie:

From here: http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm



Salesrank of top 10. Blu-ray is blue. HD-DVD is black.

Truth hurts, eh? You can see the HD-DVD results from the big buy day on April 16.

Just wait until May 22, when Blu-ray releases the following titles:

Apocalypto May 22, 2007
Closer May 22, 2007
Flags of Our Fathers May 22, 2007
Freedom Writers May 22, 2007
Letters from Iwo Jima May 22, 2007
Mission Impossible May 22, 2007
Mission Impossible II May 22, 2007
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest May 22, 2007
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl May 22, 2007

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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I thought HDCP has been bypassed already...mmmm

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but the keys can be changed and if the firmware is not applied to current players future media will be blocked and unavailable, where as all HD-DVD players have a net connection Blu-ray players do not and cannot be so readily updated, this kinnda sucks as recently sony updated their dvd DRM ARccOS that failed to play on dvd players, and then had the audacity to tell ppl to contact the players manufacturers and found that even their own dvd players wouldn't play back the movies. and the drm's in music sony love to throw down our throats that cripple our interoperability because they are angry that apple have a large market share because the ipod is trendy and the sony mp3 is overpriced with a pitifully small hard drive and looks god dam ugly, DRM is now being used as a competitive economic weapon -- not as an anti-piracy tool.! then there is sony CLEFIA that sony want to force onto us all!

with Blu-ray only there is another hidden danger in the form of BD+ with spdc it can disable a player remotly a player or entire line of players if the media company so wishes if they are deemed bad(hacked keys)

business week

Originally posted by business week:

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STRANGLEHOLD ON CONTENT. Even more extreme is a scheme called BD+ that deals with the problem of what to do when someone cracks the encryption scheme. The players can automatically download new crypto if the old one is broken. But there's an ominous feature buried in this so-called protection mechanism: If a particular brand of player is cryptographically "compromised," the studio can remotely disable all of the affected players. In other words, if some hacker halfway across the globe cracks Sony's software, Sony can shut down my DVD player across the Net.

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why is sony blu ray a bad thing, well sony or MPAA whatever you want to call them want to charge you as much as possible as often as possible and will crush all that stand in their way if we let them! xcp was the start of the underhand tactics used by sony on consumers and bd+ is no different.

the sales of Blu-ray films are false because of the Blu-ray coupons that are allowing ppl to purchase a film for as little as $8.
with all the DRM and the success and price of dvd's (new dvd's from £8) expect this apparently better DRM crippled technology to fail, as ppl wont want to purchase all new hobbled equipment just to watch a film. HDCP HDMI SONY MPAA ftl

Originally posted by Baccusboy:

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Hey hughie: Truth hurts, eh?

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- What "truth"?

The "truth" that once again you have run away, the "truth" that, true to type, you have singularly failed to even attempt to back up your previous statements and have ignored every point made rebutting your previous half-understood nonsense and FUD?

That kind of "truth" just makes me roll my eyes & laugh.....but it would have to be a bit more funny than that to actually make me laugh enough to "hurt".

There's a "truth" in all of this alright and cherry-picked graphs (laughably over a 20-something day period) really miss the point by a mile.

The "truth" is that for 3 million supposed BD players/PS3s out there the movie disc sales they have generated (approx 1.2 million sales) are rather pathetic compared to the 250,000 HD DVD's performance (approx 998,000 sales).

BD execs really ought to be worried about that - particularly as HD DVD stand-alone sales continue to do well and as we can see with the april Neilson figures the gap is closing once again.
(movie disc sales were 60:40 in BD's favour in April).
Not very impressive afterall.

HD DVD stand-alone sales continue to be miles ahead of BD's.....in fact as a proportion BD stand-alones are a minute fraction of the BD total.
BD is to all intents and purposes a PS3 propriatary format now.

The PS3 effect has been and gone, they cannot launch again.
The movie disc sales gap opened (only a fool would have expected no effect at all) but is now closing up again.
Any long term look at the indicators shows total sales are very close and the short-term gap BD had opened up is now closing.
BD has failed to knock HD DVD out of the market, it has not 'won'.

We see HD DVD prices falling.....and we still have the 3 Chinese HD DVD manufacturers coming later in the year (which, is happening even if the reported Walmart deal falls through).

.....and for those BD fans wishing to slam 'cheapo Chinese' HD DVD players I suggest you look under the covers of your PS3s, Chinese components galore.

I notice you avoided these graphs like the plague -







- Imagine my surprise at you doing that, huh?

No wonder LG & Samsung abandoned their 'BD exclusive' hardware manufacturing stance.


BTW, you know, if you're going to try this ridiculous spinning propaganda business (jayzuss wept, the point of this post of yours was what? Hey Hughie 'ya boo sucks'?) you really ought to try a little harder and attempt a little discussion, try understanding the topic a little, in short try answering points made.

You might also avoid the biased use of content & material that is so easy to check out & reveal you for the selective and manipulating cheer-leading fanboy you so plainly are.

You might also be interested (tho I doubt it) that
HD DVD will have 600 movies available by the end of this year (which is more than BD will have)
(and, rather appealingly for the grown-ups, they won't all be a run of retreaded effect-laden 'action' samey sequels claimed as supposed 'blockbusters' and mainly aimed at the under 25s either).

=============================================================

Zippy.
HDCP like the rest has been cracked or swerved - but only to a point.

My copy of PowerDVD & NvidiaPureDVD aren't HDCP cracked.
But that one isn't such a huge problem right now, many mid/top end graphics cards are ok & with the new Nvidia 8500/8600 range DX10 & HDCP are affordable and easily obtained.
Ditto many new monitors now - and your HD TV should be ok too.

But in principle I agree, it's another layer of cr@p we could do without and which, like all this DRM sh*t is causing unforeseen knock on problems (I know of people complaining their graphics card or monitor is not recognised or the database on a particular website has yet to update and let them do what they have legally paid to do).

The truth, hugh, is that you are such a fanboy of HD-DVD, you can't even read a graph correctly. ;)

Hugh, thanks for supporting Blu-ray!

The first graph you posted shows that Blu-ray disks are significantly cheaper than HD-DVD. There's even a number at the top to show the prices!

YOU ARE READING IT BACKWARDS!

Originally posted by hughjars:

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I notice you avoided these graphs like the plague -







- Imagine my surprise at you doing that, huh?

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And the 2nd graph also supports Blu-ray. It's just an overall salesrank average on a large product scale showing thousands of products, so of course the numbers will appear closer -- but still! You supported Blu! You can see that the sales rank of Blu-ray products in that 2nd graph have passed HD-DVD.

You didn't make just one mistake, you made two!

Really, you should read the graphs before you stick your foot in your mouth.... ;)



By the way, Eproductwars just made it a lot easier to see who is winning. They added a new graph to the top to show "who's on top timeline." You can hang your mouse over a spot, and it will give you stats. Notice that HD-DVD looks so bad near the right part of the graph that "ties" are actually given an HD-DVD color!

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm

Press release on the Pioneer $299 Blu-ray drive. Hugh, I thought you were trying to spin this and claim they were only being released in China for $299?:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3...9711429,00.html

Most recent Vidscan report:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070502/media_nm/dvd_dc_1

Quote:

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High-definition disc sales for the week were 71% Blu-ray Disc and 29% HD DVD, with Blu-ray sales bolstered by the fact that "Museum" was available exclusively on that format.

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

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Originally posted by Baccusboy:

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Press release on the Pioneer $299 Blu-ray drive[/b]. Hugh, I thought you were trying to spin this and claim they were only being released in China for $299?:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3...9711429,00.html

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ok that is a Blu-ray rom only with dvd & cd writing ability. imo completely pointless as very few pc monitors come with hdcp compatible connections so ALL media WILL be purposely downgraded or if you are using a none hdcp dvi connection the signal will be blocked so why purchase it if you cannot use it as a storage medium?

Originally posted by Baccusboy:

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Most recent Vidscan report:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070502/media_nm/dvd_dc_1

Quote:

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High-definition disc sales for the week were 71% Blu-ray Disc and 29% HD DVD, with Blu-ray sales bolstered by the fact that "Museum" was available exclusively on that format.

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

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why do ppl keep posting crap like this ffs, hd content barely accounts for a small % of sales, the hd films are selling 30,000 copies over a few weeks, dvd sells average 12+ million worldwide on release day, so WHO is winning the format war exactly, get emotional about politics or the worldwide loss of freedom in the guise of anti-terror laws or government wars for oil and arms deals "GROW UP". unless you have material gain or you invented the dam product blu-ray/hd-dvd just shut the fuck up ffs!

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The truth, hugh, is that you are such a fanboy of HD-DVD, you can't even read a graph correctly.

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- I see, so rebutting your idiotic (and often highly ignorant, selective and downright plain wrong) BD flag-waving FUD garbage is being a "fanboy" now is it?
Interesting view.
Not.
Wholly predictable too.

As per what a lot of empty chatter.
But you still run away from answering the point originally raised.

- No sign of those independent reviewers citing the HD DVD 'problems' you claimed I notice;
- no admission that all but 1 of the high def titles held up for damning public criticism were all BD;
- no back-up to your laughable claim that the HD DVD manufacturing process prohibited short-run testing;
- no admission that the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on 'issues' you were pretending to be so bothered about & complain of only relate to it when it's hooked up to the XBox 360 'base unit', and not a PC;
- no recognition that these issues, such as they are, are merely XBox 360 related and do not apply to HD DVD stand-alones;
- no recognition that HD DVD stand-alones continue to outsell BD stand-alones by a huge margin
- and naturally not a shred of evidence that HiDefDigest is the "HD DVD fanboy site" you have libelled them as
(that one really was ludicrously pathetic and ignorant).

In short typical BD shilling, FUD, bias and sheer ignorance of the subject.
In other words the usual patronising condescending nonsense the BD crowd have 'treated' the public to ever since this business started.

Pity the 'hydra' crew have yet to work out just how damaging their typical cr@p has become to their brand.

Quote:

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The first graph you posted shows that Blu-ray disks are significantly cheaper than HD-DVD. There's even a number at the top to show the prices!

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- How dumb do you have to be to imagine I hadn't noticed what was on the graphs I posted up, hmmmmmm?

Yes you blinkered *person*, it shows that even with the more expensive hybrid discs the BD 'lead' is rather pathetically small and now closing.

Quote:

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And the 2nd graph also supports Blu-ray. You supported Blu! You can see that the sales rank of Blu-ray products in that 2nd graph have passed HD-DVD.

You didn't make just one mistake, you made two!

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- No, the only one 'mistaken' here is the kind of *silly person* who thinks there ought to be no 'PS3 effect' visible at all.

Like I said before only a fool would have imagined there to have been no PS3 effect whatsoever.

So what does that make you, huh?

I have never said BD movie disc sales do not currently show a lead over HD DVD movie disc sales.

I have said that when one considers the numbers of players of each format supposed to be out there then the BD situation is not very impressive at all, which it isn't.

I have also said the movie disc sales gap opened and is now closing again, which it is.

This is all entirely consistent with what those graphs show.
In terms of total sales there is a small BD lead (approx 1.2 million) when compared to HD DVD sales (approx 998,000).

Feel free to point out anywhere where I have said otherwise.

......and if you honestly are so detached from reality to imagine that really amounts to "you supported Blu!" I suggest you seek medical help pronto.

Quote:

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Really, you should read the graphs before you stick your foot in your mouth....

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- You really ought to try responding to what is actually written and not what you think was written.

The salient point here is that with 3 million PS3s out there compared to 250,000 HD DVD players the BD movie disc lead is small to the point of woeful - and that lead, such as it is, is shrinking.

BD is entirely reliant upon the PS3 and the facts are that the PS3 is simply not generating the retail movies disc sales in large enough volumes.

HD DVD stand-alones continue to sell well & have a much higher attachment rate, hence the HD DVD retail movie disc sales gap is closing.

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By the way, Eproductwars just made it a lot easier to see who is winning.

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- I'll stick to the Nielson data thanks, it's derived from a much wider range of outlet's sales stats and is reasonably well respected.

They showed 60:40 in april (which was a closing of the 70:30 gap they showed in march/feb).

BTW I saw a (long term member & highly respected) retail trade insider talking about the Amazon "sales rank" on the avforums.

For anyone interested in how it works he said this "Amazon unlike High Street retailers are able to use a selection of marketing skills to "guide" the customer to select certain lines, imagine your looking on Amazon at the Sales Ranking Chart, the following things may not be apparent, but they are factors:

1) Margin, its to Amazon advantage to push products they make the best margin from, therefore titles rankings are increase if they offer higher than the average margin.

2) Availability, why promote something you can't sell straight away, high avalibity either at the Amazon DC, Advantage Partner or supplier will mean the sales ranking will be pumped to increase stock turn.

3) Marketing Support, if you selling marketing packages to suppliers you need to prove they work or they may not support you again, up the sales ranking to ensure high visibility of featured titles to give them a good chance !

I've personally been offered an increase on my titles sales ranking on Amazon if I offer more margin and take out a online marketing package.