AfterDawn: Tech news

The next generation DVD format mess

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 11 Jul 2005 17:27 User comments (66)

The next generation DVD format mess While both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camps continue to promote their technology as the best option for a next generation standard, consumers and businessmen are becoming increasing worried. Whether you are a major movie studio or a businessman tied in some way to Hollywood, the prospect of a format war that would rival the "VHS vs. Betamax" war is undesirable to say the least. Both camps even agree that a unified standard is a much better option and seem to b still willing to keep up negotiations.
"We fully agree and concur that a single format is the best bet," said Mark Knox, adviser to the HD DVD promotion division at Toshiba. "We want to talk--let's talk. We leave everything on the table. We want to find the best single format." Similar belief comes also from the Blu-Ray camp. "Everybody realizes that it is in the best interest of us all not to come to market with two formats, to have just the one," said Victor Matsuda, a vice president at Sony's Blu-Ray Group. "That said, we're not there yet."

However so far no standard has been reached and many experts believe it is unlikely any agreement will ever be made. In fact, if you look at past news items on this issue, you will notice that both sides have already grown hugely and it already appears to be a battle for dominance. Blu-Ray is backed by a large group of consumer electronics and computer companies. It offers 50GB storage space, which is its main offering. Its biggest achievement yet is that the PS3 will use this format for games.

However, HD-DVD does also have its friends including many major Hollywood studios who have already announced plans to release high definition versions of their movies. Some even believe that Blu-Ray is not a contender to HD-DVD at all. The biggest difference the Blu-Ray camp emphasises is that Blu-ray will hold more data, whereas HD-DVD can hold 15GB, 30GB or 45GB. "The capacity difference between the two is not enough that anyone will notice," said Warner Bros. Chief Technology Officer Chris Cookson. "Interactivity and quality are the same. If we have a choice, what would be the logical reason to pick anything other than HD DVD? There doesn't seem to be any reason for Blu-Ray to exist."

For consumers, a war would be terrible. Firstly, everyone would have to decide which format to go with, which wouldn't be such an easy task as you risk seeing that format ultimately die out within a couple of years. Both sides have tried to defeat this issue by claiming they can make "hybrid disc" which could possibly store regular DVD data and HD data (sort of like a dual disc). But even that isn't much help to consumers. There is also a growing fear in Hollywood that the "DVD craze" of the past few years is dieing out.

DreamWorks Animations and Pixar Studios both issued earning warnings in the last few weeks, citing sales of the movies "Shrek 2" and "The Incredibles." Also Retailer Best Buy noted in its quarterly earnings statement last week that sales of DVDs, as well as CDs were gone far down, whereas video game sales ere gone far up. Analysts blame an "over-saturated" DVD market as well as Hollywood studios releasing too many movies too fast on DVD.

Hollywood executives are already in fear over these new problems, as they rely on the sales of DVDs to cover the falling income from box-office receipts. However it is not just big Hollywood studios and massive retailers that are worried, it's the smaller businesses that are becoming increasing nervous about the situation. For example, Steven Chack is in the rental business in San Francisco and he has already had trouble switching to DVD.

He has been changing the collection of VHS tapes to DVD as fast as he can afford to and has had to accept losing business to new services like Netflix. The change now to a next generation format would be hard enough to deal with for him but it looks like he may have to deal with the change to two formats. He still hopes that a unified standard can be reached. "They would be crazy if they didn't agree on a format," Chack said. "They should have learned their lesson from BetaMax."

No rental stores really want to have to offer movies on two different formats anytime soon. However, at the moment the focus is not on small businesses or retailers, it is simple on the pros and cons of both competing formats. Sooner or later one format (unified or not) will win this expensive battle, but for the sake of consumers at least, one standard format is better gotten sooner than later.

Source:
News.com

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66 user comments

111.7.2005 20:12

This is really stupid...with the 2 different disks...i think that they think its going to delay the burning of the games because they would be focusing on one disk and then after they crack that go to the other but there is X-box AND PS users...it will be done at the same time. and the thing about the rental, yeah they dont think about us, who the hell do u think is buying the items!? They are just making it so much more confusing to everyone, now we are going to have to buy all new Blu-Ray Players or HD-DVD players and we can hope that there will be a company that can make lasers to support both, Sony and there scam asses are mostly likely going to make Blu-ray players and ship out blu-ray disks and sell them at the amount of GB a blu-ray holds (you never know...it could happen) Now what if you have an X-box? and you want to rent a movie and say you play it on your X-box? will they have a HD-DVD section or will all DVD's be shipped in blu-ray format or will they make 50/50 of the disks? that would totally screw EVERYONE over now...because they wont know how much people own a ps3 or a player that supports blu-rays or how many people own a x-box 360 or a player that supports HD-DVDs. Bottom line...this will screw EVERYONE over and eventually screw over Sony and Microsoft, and if they dont agree on one type of disk then i hope that both companies will lose millions and everyone will make the switch over to nintendo which i think is supporting DVD disks and make nintendo big like it used to be.

211.7.2005 20:15

I wish i could edit that above...lmao...i focused more on the Sony and Microsoft disks battle but i guess its kinda the same

311.7.2005 21:50

Did Blockbuster (or any other major video rental outlet) staked their allegiance yet ? Please wake me up once that happens...

411.7.2005 22:53
llongtheD
Inactive

Over saturated DVD market? Releasing movies to DVD too early? How about if Hollywood started releasing quality movies again, maybe then we would buy. Maybe they should hire less number cruncher accountants, and more quality writers, actors, directors, producers for their films. How about if they started to forget about the big blockbuster, special effects, fake, bullshit, and started to make movies with a some kind of meaning again. Something you'd want to see, and might even watch again! Maybe then we would buy. WAKE UP HOLLYWOOD.

511.7.2005 22:59

Quote:
Over saturated DVD market? Releasing movies to DVD too early? How about if Hollywood started releasing quality movies again, maybe then we would buy. Maybe they should hire less number cruncher accountants, and more quality writers, actors, directors, producers for their films. How about if they started to forget about the big blockbuster, special effects, fake, bullshit, and started to make movies with a some kind of meaning again. Something you'd want to see, and might even watch again! Maybe then we would buy. WAKE UP HOLLYWOOD.
Strongly agree with what you said. It seems like hollywood has run out of ideas, i mean whats with this whole remaking of movies and t.v shows? Hollywood needs all new people!

612.7.2005 1:44

Yes ...... agree with all. You can only cram so much garbage onto a DVD, and Hollywood has certainly managed to do that, and charge for it accordingly. They have outdone even their own greedy selves. "Crap Overload" I call it. People aren't stupid; they are rightfully fed up; and I'm gratified that it's all coming back to bite Hollywood in the ass. In the meantime, I'm firmly in "Snooze Mode" when it comes to Blu-Ray vs. DVD-HD. I'll believe what I see after I see it. I don't plan on doing diddly squat until the greedy moguls manage to get their shit together. If TODAY, both formats were to come to market - I would buy neither until it becomes CARVED-IN-STONE which SINGLE format will be the successor to DVD. I will _not_ be an "Early Adopter". Who needs the aggravation?

712.7.2005 3:40

I think the market is not ready for either of those two standards. The difference in picture quality between VHS and DVD was really flagrant, whereas, even with a kick-ass HDTV TV, you won't notice much difference between a DVD and a so-called high definition HD-DVD. As far as games are concerned, the need for bigger media has been artificially increased by more and more heavy cinematics where you just sit there and wait for the action to go on, whereas the game itself rarely weigh more than 20-30Mb. However, if priced appropriatley, those new media could be handy for computer storage or backup, but I'm not overly optimistic either, seing the very low demand for dual layer writable DVDs

812.7.2005 5:06

crazyness

912.7.2005 6:19

i agree with you guys 100%, i would have to buy a blue-ray dvd player, and of course put in a blue-ray dvd drive in my pc, get blanks i guess sony is saying if you wanna watch a blue-ray dvd buy a ps3 or one of our players or you cant watch it at all. they forgot the fact that we are not all millionaires!hd is great but godddamm! its all about forcing us to choose a side

1012.7.2005 6:58
Jeoff
Inactive

You can bet your hard earned dollar that all the movie companies WANT 2 different formats. It allows them to "double dip" even more...considering there would be three simultaneous releases followed by three simultaneous re-releases two months later. That's like sextuple dipping right there. And yes if it comes to that each product will be differentiated to encourage people to buy all 3 versions. 4 versions if you count UMDs I guess. $25 for "Are We There Yet?" and $20 for "You Got Served" retail prices. Thanks Sony I'm pirating every single one of your movies now just because of that. Expect even greater price gouging with the new media that will actually have room for extra features and commentary on the discs.

1112.7.2005 8:31
Reasons?
Inactive

"whereas HD-DVD can hold 15GB, 30GB or 45GB" Something smells a little fishy. Originally HD-DVD were 10-15GB and going to help keep costs down. Now it seems cheaper isn't the argument, now it's 45GB and probally the same cost anyway, and a new damn drive anyway. Let's look at it this way... If Blu-ray is only 5GB more now, will there be a huge cost difference in either drive or disc. If not why not go for new and expandle-in-the-future technology (DVD has already been through it all from 4.7GB to 45GB, I guess, I think somethings fishy with the new claim). I will also refuse to buy anything but games on the new formats as well. But, I feel Blu-ray is the better choice, and that it will come out on top. I am still not buying a single movie though, I will rent however, because I plan to buy a 360 and PS3 so I will be able to play both.

1212.7.2005 9:05
Earlacey
Inactive

When will it end? How "HD" does my movie have to be? They want to force a new format one way or the other on consumers and for what? My movies look great on my HDTV as it is. My games look good enough, but even the "new" next systems...yawn...(and afer saying that I have laready reserved my xbox 360, yes I suck..)But come on, I have been a PC gamer for a long time and all teh consoles are doing is wising up, and finally playing catch up..but again, it's nothing we have not seen before. Are we all lemmings? One thing is for sure, with all the new fomats, it will be harder and more expesive to reproduce..you don't think they though of that do you? Well what ever that case, until someone reaches out from inside my tv and actaully touches me, I don't care. Or maybe if I could feel the spit out of Tom Hanks mouth when he screams "THERE IS NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!" just to get the extra umph it needs.. But that is just me ranting a little. Seriously though, does anyone else think it is all just too much?

1312.7.2005 9:13

4.7 Gig Dvds are enough for now for Hollywood. Most don't even own a HD Television to benefit from HD Dvds. HD/Blue Ray media will be popular in IT backups depending on cost and speed. - 2 format is ludicrous for consumers. I'm out. I will watch for while. I think Sony should let HD dvd win, and still put out their own format to minimize piracy with the PS3. If there is not media to write it on, it won't be copied easily. Howerver the drive would need to be compatible with HD-DVD to watch movies...thats my thought

1412.7.2005 10:40
duckNrun
Inactive

quote: ....said Warner Bros. Chief Technology Officer Chris Cookson. "Interactivity and quality are the same. If we have a choice, what would be the logical reason to pick anything other than HD DVD? There doesn't seem to be any reason for Blu-Ray to exist."..... lmao... if someone in hollywood says something doesn't make sense and there's no reason to do it, then LOGIC TELLS ME to go in the exact OPPOSITE direction because hollywood execs today don't know jack! quote: Analysts blame an "over-saturated" DVD market as well as Hollywood studios releasing too many movies too fast on DVD..... NO Hollywood, the real reason is that the movies that are WORTH buying WILL BE BOUGHT and the movies and TV shows that nobody (except maybe your writers and execs think would make a great 'remake') are interested in will sit on the shelf collecting dust. Besides the fact that who wants to pay $60 bucks for ONE SEASON of a TV show that is 10+ years old?? So as so many consumers keep saying.... Wake up!!!! Once you start making stuff worth watching and buying people will, amazingly, watch it AND buy it!

1512.7.2005 12:19
Earlacey
Inactive

Agreed. Start making things worth watching. I think a lot of things contribute to the poor movie ticket sales, DVD sales and even CDs...and the least of which is piracy. I think people are just flat out more frugal with their money. Here in the states people are losing their jobs all over place, and are hard pressed to find good paying jobs they once had. So if you are tightening the old belt that is some of the first stuff to go. Consumers, music buffs ad movies go-ers are more sophisticated. At least now more so than they were 10 years ago. And much less forgiving with bad products. "Burn me once shame one you, burn me twice shame on me..." Not to mention the Hollywood machine has lost sight of it's creative an inspiring roots. Sure once in a while a good movie hits the sidewalk but most of the time, have we not seen it before? I think right now, American Cinema is raping Japanese Horror, they'll ruin that too, until it becomes a parody of itself like most American horror films... I don't follow the music scene anymore because it is just too heart breaking and I stick to my own personal classics, however I will give kudos to Green Day for American Idiot...they deserve every penny they get...anyways.. In the race for the best technology, everyone has lost sight of content's quality. I love my movies, I love my video games...but I often wonder if the people who make them watch movies and play video games? I will still get my movies, even bad ones sometimes, they can quite often have a few redeeming moments, but why slap down 20-25 bucks at the box office when I can wait a few months and slap down $14.99 and watch it in the soothing comfort of my home without the distraction of idiots and over priced snackey-treats?

1612.7.2005 13:37
Reasons?
Inactive

Earlacey, this may be a little off-topic but... Consoles are in a sense playing catch up, BUT you have to remeber they last 5 years, and when they first come out they stomp PC gaming everytime for a few years. Then they get outdated. I just thought your comment made consoles look bad, how good did PC gaming look in the initial years of the PS2? Not that great :)

1712.7.2005 13:55

American culture has just lost all of its originality after the start of the 21st century. All of the really bad stuff has come from 2000+, The worst one yet was 2004. The only good thing I saw in 2004 was Doom 3, Half-life 2, and Kill Bill. But Doom 3 and HL2 were SEQUALS! It seems that we have no originality, so that's why everybody hates this new crap! They need to get real with the fact that people don't care much about the newest thing, or how we are expected to watch every single scam they can come out with. I think they should just release a fast media, that holds a lot, and do the job done. A good combo would to use the Blu-ray Discs in conjuntion with DivX movies at a good bitrate. That way, they can put all the crap on it, the music, various versions, music videos, the whole series, ect., and have something that people would actually WANT to buy. Nobody wants s**t that has only 2 episodes, or some crappy commentary that nobody wants to hear about the making of "You Got Served!"

1812.7.2005 14:51
Earlacey
Inactive

I didn't mean to make the consoles sound bad, but I just don't by any means see them a 'revolutionary" either. Before I get a cross platform game I ask myself.."Do I want to be hunched over the keyboard basking the pale light of my LCD or slump into the couch with a controller?" Sometimes that is the only deciding factor. I have nothing bad to say about them, they bring genres of gaming to people who could not normally access it. I work with PC so I always have the latest gadgets, video cards and what not...so that puts me in a different situation than most. All I want to see is them "blow my skirt up"(please all, resist the jokes if you can) with games like Ninja Gaiden, the KOTR and stuff like that. With the new formats it is easy to make a game look cool and still suffer from crappy game play. And don't well all love the cut-scenes? Maybe I am spoiled or jaded since I know what the "next-gen" consoles have to offer...I still have really good games from my 8-bit Nintendo and up...it can be old-school or new, I don't care, it just needs to be good and break the mold once in a while. Yeah way off topic, sort of, but anyway...

1912.7.2005 15:51

thw hwole thing is getting ridiculous, now philips have announced a new technology that can store 150 GB on a media disc (near-field) http://news.softpedia.com/news/Philips-Makes-Progress-on-New-Recording-Technology-4579.shtml HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be dead and buried before they are even born with the way that technology is moving...the only winners will be those who manufacture the discs and the companys that release on them.

2012.7.2005 16:17

if hollywood is so in love with hd, why not make all movies in hd? what too expensive? oh but MAKE us buy a dvd in hd. of course they will have a super duper copy protection to go with it then they really got us. why not release movies in hd, force the theatres to change. make them change over all the equiptment for new hd equipment, what too expensive for them too? what about us we will basically have to change our home theatre system all over! why does it always get passed down to the consumer. they charge hd prices at the movies already!

2112.7.2005 16:31
Earlacey
Inactive

OK, everyone all together now. Just gouge our eyes out on the count of 3... and let them really scramble to sell us something. "What do mean you don't care about HD??? But we have saturated that market with multiple formats for you! So you can have the freedom to choose and be distracted from the fact that even in Super-HD-3D-Pseudo-Interactive format....Star Wars Episode one still sucks..." "Just close your eyes and go back to sleep, "we" will figure it all out for you....Say we are going to release 52.1 Surround sound..would you be interested in that....?" The above sounded funny at the time I wrote it.

2212.7.2005 16:38
gpb42
Inactive

you won't see that 150GB disk for a loooooong time. remember when they introduced computers? they were the size of whole rooms! then 10 to 20 years later they were ready for the general public. patience young padawan...your anger will subsidize and you will realize, who really needs that many friggin bytes of information for personal use!?!

2312.7.2005 16:38
gpb42
Inactive

you won't see that 150GB disk for a loooooong time. remember when they introduced computers? they were the size of whole rooms! then 10 to 20 years later they were ready for the general public. patience young padawan...your anger will subsidize and you will realize, who really needs that many friggin bytes of information for personal use!?!

2412.7.2005 16:45
Earlacey
Inactive

ROTF... Who, know? I guess it is a "Build it and they will come" thing. All in all, I don't care. I suppose there are a lot of reasons they & them think we all need to upgrade. But the DVD Revolution, as it is, can't be over. It just started and I don't think everyone is quite ready to throw their DVD players into the trash just yet. I mean we are talking globally right? Every player in every home has to be replaced ..again, not to mention all the movies...again. I think this will be one of those too much, too fast things. Folks just can't afford it, and I do have to say, if you eventually piss off off enough consumers, the companies might, and I really mean maybe, pay attention to us/them.

2512.7.2005 20:21
Reasons?
Inactive

Apparently the technology was "a challenge" was, that means it's already developed, so it may/may not actually be at our doorstep, the only thing is... It's a blu-ray drive, just a very expensive one. This is using SOny's Blu-ray technology, Philips was a partner in this from the start, this is aimed at high end business and back-ups for enterprises. All this is, is a high end blu-ray drive that will require a different much more expensive media and a much more expensive drive. No, it's not a third jumping in the mix, it's just blu-ray for different applications. Basically, in a few years IT, big business, and some people will be able to back-p mass quanities of data for less money. Eventually like gbp42 said, it will find it's way to us, not that soon but not 10-20 years either. Sounds like Sony took the consumer end of Blu-ray and Philips focused on this part. This definitely strenghthens blu-ray and my support for it. 150GB media will make business and enterprise wet themselves.

2613.7.2005 1:40

gpb42 wrote: ... and you will realize, who really needs that many friggin bytes of information for personal use!?! Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how much shelf space 24 year's-worth of Star Trek episodes take up? TOS - 3 Seasons TNG - 7 Seasons DS9 - 7 Seasons VOY - 7 Seasons Roughly 300 (_Three Hundred_) single-layer discs all-told, filed in paper envelopes and stored in neat plastic boxes. They weigh a ton. (And I wouldn't part with a single one of 'em). :-) 50-Gigabyte Blu-Ray discs would go a l-o-n-g way in reducing their bulk. Hell, I could even make two backup copies of the entire Mega-Set! And that's _without_ any additional video compression. And we won't even mention my bulging collection of.... "The Munsters"; "Sanford & Son"; "Cheers"; "M*A*S*H"; "Monty Python's Flying Circus"; "The Outer Limits"; The Monkees"; "Fawlty Towers"; "Mary Tyler Moore"; "The Dick Van Dyke Show"; "The Simpson's"; "Columbo"; .... or the yet-to-come TV show box-sets I have on order from the Library like.... "Gilligan's Island"; "All In The Family"; "The Flintstones"; "Happy Days"; "Seinfeld"; ....... Who needs the extra Sony blu-bytes ??? Hell, I wouldn't know, gpb42!

2713.7.2005 8:08
Reasons?
Inactive

That's sweet, you have all those Star Trek episodes backed up on DVD! I'm jealous, that had to take alot of time.

2813.7.2005 8:48

Were it within my power to do so, I would gladly burn 'em all onto a new, as-yet-undisclosed format of futuristic, mega-density disc, and snail-mail it to you, my friend. (Only for "evaluation" purposes of course). (But yeah....) It was (IS) a stunning achievement. Many of these episodes are timeless. When it comes time for me to 'shuffle off to that great home-theater in the sky', I'm taking the discs with me. :)

2913.7.2005 13:06
Reasons?
Inactive

Sounds like the Blu-ray 50GB discs would really work out nice for you, but did you read about the Philips Blu-ray drive that will store 150GB per disc? Now there's something worth looking into (years in the future unfortunatly) for storing collections like that. I wonder how much this new media is going to cost us, I can get Verbatim DVD-R 8x for $0.40 a disc plus tax. I hope cost (Blu-ray) runs down when people use it more, because DL discs are already ungodly expensive.


Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.

Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.

Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K

My advice: Wait for PS3.

3014.7.2005 2:25

Yep. Blank dual-layer dvds were far too late in coming to market. Their usefulness will be eclipsed by blu-ray, and shortly, they'll be obsolete. Certainly they are not cost-effective. I recently bought a 200-unit box of single-layer dvd+r's ("Dynex") for .39c each (Canadian). The early, fatal lack of dual-layer media is why we have video-compression/authoring software today. Compression was necessary. DL discs cost so much because the suppliers can get away with it (for now). That will end shortly with blu-ray. The high prices would have ended shortly *anyway*, even without blu-ray. Yes, I read the Philips piece (above). There have been several such announcements over the last few years from different technology giants. It will probably happen too, sometime in the future. In the near-term though, it's going to be a bit tricky getting all of our present-day dvds (whether the original, retail commerial discs, or our backups of same) onto the new blu-ray format discs, AND have those blu-ray discs be *playable* on set-top blu-ray players. A dvd has it's own structure unto itself. It has it's own menu, and a standalone player can only deal with one menu at a time. I expect that each of our dvds will haved to be saved into a separate folder on the blu-ray disc. And *then* the blu-ray player would have to treat each folder as a *separate* disc all by itself. In other words, there's a difference between merely backing up (or "archiving") your present-day dvd collection onto blu-ray for safety's sake, and actually having your archived blu-ray disc be *playable* on a set-top, standalone blu-ray player. An analogy would be...... like burning a whole bunch of the older VCD (Video-CD) mpeg-1 discs onto a blank DVD disc. That dvd disc would not be directly playable because a vcd must be specifically formatted AS a VCD for a set top player to recognize it. As I say.... it's going to be a tricky process. Nobody is (really) going to be 'backing-up' their new, mpeg-4 Hi-Definition Hollywood movie discs onto blu-ray blanks any time soon after hi-definition's market introduction. They will be DRM'ed (copy-protected) right up to the stratosphere, and require "cracking" before any kind of one-to-one back-upping will be possible. This place (AfterDawn) will be positively ablaze with possible 'solutions' to all of the above as members begin sharing their blu-ray experiences with each other. New software will appear, both commercial, shareware, and the necessary cracks, patches and 'solutions' will become available as time passes. Interesting times ahead, Mr. Reasons !!! :=) ** (P.S.) My murky crystal ball tells me that Blu-Ray *will* be the format of the future, and that Toshiba is either going to have to compromise, or lose out entirely as consumers embrace the blu-ray format en masse, and that's with or without Hollywood's cooperation. **

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jul 2005 @ 2:33

3114.7.2005 3:29
gpb42
Inactive

Klingon, Geez, get out and do something outside! Just kidding, however, I have burnt many dvds, some I only watched once and will never watch again, and it seems that many people are just burning to say they have the movie/series. Whilst working 8 hours days, I'm assuming it would take about a year to watch all the dvds you have, thats crazy. As far as the storage thing, I agree, I hate opening and closing the 30lb binder on mine. I do try to fit two older movies on to one 4.7Gb disc, usually the older comedies.

3214.7.2005 4:18

(Hello!) Yeah - you need the bytes. You really do. Ya gotta have 'em, gpb42 -- sorry, no option here. You're hoarding bytes you're not even telling us about. (It's OK, you're allowed). We're all with you on this one. I put in 6 days a week - trust me, there's other things I'd rather do than burn discs. But I've loved Star Trek all my life, so ....... when it became apparent that I (might) be able to cobble together the ENTIRE 4 series (every single episode!) at an unprecedented cost savings (sometimes *free*), how could I say no? You'd be surprised how often I pop in a ST disc after a hard slog at the office when there's diddly-squat else on, on the satellite box. Still, I can fully understand your jealous-ness at my having what relatively few other people have. The ENTIRE SET! Send me a PM, and we'll talk. (I'm cheap). :=)

3314.7.2005 13:10
duckNrun
Inactive

Well one possible solution that I see towards multiple movies on one blu-ray (and dunno but seems like it would work for reg. dvd's as well) would be a 'master menu'. This would be the main menu on a disc. From there you would have all the individual movies/episodes that were stored on the disk listed as sub menus. This would then allow each individually stored movie's main menu to become yet another sub menu etc. As long as everything was stored and sorted right in the IFO's and stored as VOB's wouldn't this allow you to have as many movies as could fill up a disc on a single blu-ray?? I mean this is basically what already happens on dvd's now right? A main menu, sub menus for extras/setup/languages/director's cut/commentaries (etc), another embedded menu for options within those extras etc etc. Granted for anything such as VCD or AVI/DivX etc to be able to work they would need to be converted into VOB's but again isn't the theory sound? If so I could see a future (and again why not a current??) program that would do all the 'linking' and 'transcoding' that the disc structure would require to be able to play in a settop. Yes?? No??

3414.7.2005 20:20

Absolutely 'yes', duckNrun - you theory is _most_ sound. I believe this is the very thing that software developers will offer us as soon as blu-ray hits the shelves. I have often thought about exactly the same thing as you describe. A simple Main Menu could branch us off into whatever folder (dvd) we wanted to see, and then the dvd's original menu would take over. Upon exiting the dvd, you would then be returned to the Main Menu again. This is a MOST valid use for blu-ray's higher-capacity discs. Not everything on Blu-ray has to be "Hi-Def". In fact..... I was reading in a New York times piece, that the new generation of players, *both* blu-ray and HD-DVD, will be backwards compatible with present-day dvds. This is *terrific* news because it means that the players will be able to natively handle dvd's mpeg-2 format as well as hi-def's mpeg-4 avc/h.264 format. In other words, you won't have to convert your dvds to mpeg-4 or something else (time-consuming as hell) before you can play them back. Yes, I believe we will all be able to put, maybe, 5 or 6 dvds onto a single blu-ray and have them all play back perfectly. :)

3515.7.2005 4:48

I hope we get a refund for all the DVD's we bought with the crappy compression. I can't tell you how many DVD's I own where I can see the lossy blocks pop in, especially in dark scenes, and especially watching on a hi resolution screen.

3615.7.2005 7:23

There's a short, interesting piece in the Herald Tribune pointed to by Doom9's site: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/10/business/dvd11.php Even the movie studios _themselves_ can't cast a final ballot, as you'll see in the article. I myself would like to see Blu-Ray win, but it's success is not yet guaranteed, at least for commercial Hollywood discs. The joint companies of Paramount, Universal and Warner have announced they will release 89 HD-DVD movies by year's end. Whether you believe this or not is understandable as we have yet to even see a HD-DVD player. If 89 HD-DVD titles show up, it is going to sway a lot of people as they see the discs sitting on the retailer's shelves. On the other hand, Blu-Ray burners and blank media are *already* a reality in Japan. You could conceiveably order one in for yourself. (Too bad I can't read Japanese.... I really should do some web-searches nonetheless.) HD-DVD has approx 15 Gigs per layer. Blu-Ray has approx 25 Gigs per layer. That's a substancial difference that the HD-DVD camp likes to play down, saying, "There's not that much difference." But yeah...... there is.

3715.7.2005 9:26
Reasons?
Inactive

I can't wait for Dl disc to go down in price. When I was backing up my new copy ;) of Oceans Twelve, I took off everything but the movie in 5.1 and I still had to compress it to 80.5%!!! That bit, but I'll take it, I guess it is a 125min movie. Quick question for you A_Klingon, Why does my DVD Shrink make me compress the disc so it's ~4.46GB even though my discs are 4.7GB?? I have been doing this for quite awhile now and just never got around to wondering. Yep, the new Blu-ray and HD-DVD players will be backwards compatible. Someone in another forum said he/she was gunning for HD-DVD becuase "that's the one that will play in my DVD player I have now." Nope, just for clarity's sake, HD-DVD indeed uses a blue laser (DVD players today use red). The difference is the length of the laser and the size of lands and pits on the disc. Blu-ray utilizes a shorter, smaller laser to compact more data on the same surface. It will be another drive. HD-DVD is cheaper. The player and the media will be cheaper (who cares, let's not limit ourselves, remember when 4.7GB was amazing? Is it now?). But the biggest thing is, is that because HD-DVD isn't so far different, manufacturing and copying facilities will have to undergo less of a facelift than Blu-ray. This is where Holywood support comes in, they want to save money, not us saving money. Oh crap, I agree, DRM is going to be a beast, along with many other obstacles. But there's just so many of us now :), victory is ours. I am hurried here so I leave you the knowlege I won't be back to an internet connection until Monday :( *Tear* Man will I have alot of Afterdawn e-mails...Yay I can't wait. Later.

3815.7.2005 10:42

I've been reading two comments that need a reply. The one, "who needs 150Gb" reminds me of a computer I bought about 15 to 18 years ago. It was a Tandy and came with no hard drive. That was a plug-in card and could be bought in either 20 or 40Mb sizes, $500 for the 20Mb drive. I figured, who needs more than 20Mb at home? Today, the average program is bigger than that. My other comment in on the sagging movie sales, both at the box office and DVD. I know a simple solution for them. Make movies again. I'm sick of every new movie being either 100% animated, or a large part of it is animated. Lets have movies again; good old dramatic stories. I don't need Batman or Shreck.

3915.7.2005 18:34
Sliztzan
Inactive

People are getting sick of so many duplicate re-releases on DVD. We one one quality release with excellant quality picture and sound. If the industry did a better job with the first release, instead of planning a second or third release, more would buy. They are taking advantage of a good thing and many are getting sick and tired of it. This is also the community view of what they call the piracy of DVD. You rip us off, we rip you off. If you remember when DVD first started out, there were talks and hopes of how great the quality would be and sound. Instead we are pounded with many low quality releases filled up with forced previews, director commentaries, and other things we don't want. We want DTS, ES, EX, soundtracks, better remastered video, etc, not a bunch of junk that takes away what could be a quality release. If they would just take more time and do a better job I believe more would buy consistantly. This is what the intentions with DVD before they hit the market.

4015.7.2005 19:19

The media companies are turning movies into consumable products. 1. Look at all the formats and releases of the same movie there are, with no way to upgrade as you would with any other software. 2. Look at how prone to scratching and destruction. All I have to say is maybe the media companies can increase the size of the movies, but so is bandwidth and hard drive space. Bring it!

4116.7.2005 5:38

Hello Reasons! (Have a good weekend, and we'll 'see' you on Monday then). :-) Quick question for you A_Klingon, Why does my DVD Shrink make me compress the disc so it's ~4.46GB even though my discs are 4.7GB?? I have been doing this for quite awhile now and just never got around to wondering. Your DVD Shrink is working perfectly. A "4.7 GB" disc is not really 4.7 GB, Reasons. It never was. The 4.7 figure is a little bit of "creative" advertising by disc manufacturers. A DVD is actually only 4.38 GB. (More accurately, 4.36 GB). The manufacturers, early on in the game, 'boosted' (fibbed) their way up to 4.7 GB in an effort to impress buyers. They used the number 1000 as a divisor instead of the proper 1024 to arrive at the final GB figure. Even though more honest companies know it is a bit-of-a-stretch, they too mark their discs as '4.7 GB' to compete with the others. It's an 'accepted' exaggeration within the market. So your DVD Shrink is really taking full advantage of the disc's available space and actually maxing out your dvds just fine. Dual Layer discs are only ridiculously expensive because of their relative newness. They don't cost nearly as much to make as what their ridiculous price markup would suggest. Manufacturers charge as much as they do because they can. They know, in the near-wake of blu-ray and HD-DVD, that their window of price-grabbing is limited, so they're 'making hay while the sun shines' while they still can; before the DL format becomes a near-thing of the past.

4217.7.2005 15:11
Reasons?
Inactive

(Back a lil early) Ahhh, that explains it all. Tricky, going by 1000 instead of 1024, that's dirty considering people sometime might count on the 4.7GB for backing up ~4.7GB worth of data. Oh well. Did the DL companies fudge on the 8.5GB claim too then? "The biggest difference the Blu-Ray camp emphasises is that Blu-ray will hold more data, whereas HD-DVD can hold 15GB, 30GB or 45GB." Hmmmmm, is that single layer, DL, and three layers? Must be, no? If you take into account BD can do 3 layers too, then were talking 75GB versus that 45GB... Seems someone failed to mention where they got 45GB and how it would relate to BD's abilities. Who else thinks (I know it has to be at this point.) the 45GB claim is three layers? Off-topic note: Has anyone else noticed that my tag still says "Newbie" after 140 some posts?

4317.7.2005 16:44

I don't know if consumer blu-ray discs (in Japan) come in the 3-layer variety or not. If so, then yes, we're talking 75 GB. As for HD-DVD, well they're not a consumer-available item yet, so they presently come in the 0 (NO) layer variety. :) There are a couple of photos printed in our 'Globe And Mail' newspaper that show sample discs in both formats. The HD-DVD is clearly marked '30 Gig-Dual Layer', and the blu-ray is simply marked '50 Gig'. So I assume the blu-ray is a dual-layer also. There's billions of potential dollars at stake here for the market winner, so neither camp is going to let up for a second. Pity too - both sides could have cooperated and shared the booty - the way things are now, one of them is going to lose the shirt off their back. That's greed for you. Pity. It means we lose too.

4417.7.2005 17:29
Reasons?
Inactive

I just won't buy either (besides a PS3) until the winner is clear, then I don't lose, yes! If you go find the lists of supporters for each side it's pretty funny... "20th Century Fox, ESPN, MGM, Miramax, Sony Pictures, Touchstone, and Walt Disney Company are behind Blu-ray; and HBO and New Line Cinema, Paramount Pictures, Universal Studios, and Warner Brothers are behind HD-DVD."- PC World Look, this is a list of the "intelectual property" type company, making movies etc. If you look at the lists of other companies, you'll see that, besides Toshiba and MS + a few others, HD-DVD is backed less by technological companies and more by Hollywood (in the big picture anyway, MS is huge, but is mostly software anyway...). What does that tell you? I gues four layer BD discs are ready and eight layer discs are possible but are "tech demonstration". Four layers!! That's a single 100GB disc, talk about backing up stuff. Blu-ray just keeps looking better to me anyway. Have you noticed no one else is in this forum except me and you, A_Klingon? Looks like not too many people care, on AD anyway.

4518.7.2005 7:51

They must be mesmerised by our dazzling conversation, exquisite wit, impressive insight, and stunning good looks. (Yeah, that's probably what it is). :-) )

4618.7.2005 8:22

Here ya go, Reasons..... this little piece will make you smile. (It kindof puts a dent in my arguments too). Still, it may or may not come to pass: Sony's Playstation 3 to output 1080p Tuesday, May 17 2005, 11:16 BST -- by James Welsh The high-definition Playstation 3 will be launched in the spring of 2006, Sony has confirmed. Sony gaming chief Ken Kutaragi said that the device is intended to be a home entertainment centre: "PS3 truly is the system to be placed in the center of living rooms in homes around the world." The PS3 will be capable of outputting 1080p, a high definition Progressive resolution of 1920x1080. Moreover, the PS3 will be capable of driving two HD displays - allowing for setups such as a panoramic gaming arena or a separate tactical data display on a secondary LCD monitor. In line with the goal of positioning the PS3 as a home entertainment device rather than simply a gaming console, the device will be capable of playing CDs, SACDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray discs. No price point has been mentioned thus far; also, it is unclear whether the spring 2006 release is simultaneous worldwide. "Thhrrrpppphhhhhhhhh !!!!" :-)

4718.7.2005 10:00
Reasons?
Inactive

That's the good stuff right there. I knew that, but I didn't mention it because I wasn't sure what you ment by "proper" so I figured tact was in my best interest :) Sony is pretty dead set on the dual outputs, it's one of their biggest advertising points. Plus the GPU (RSX by nVidia) has the power to push both! Indeed, it does put a smile on my face that the :) parenthesis can't match in size. If your not into gaming though, it might be too expensive for your needs, unless you use linux too. It's susposed to be around ~$400 and Sony will be taking almost a $100 loss on the hardware. It will run Linux though with the optional hard drive if your into Linux and ready for an open source adventure on the cell CPU architecture. Wow what a pain in hind quarters that's gonna be, I'll stick with windows and x86 for now :) It's win win, because a 1080p BD player might come close to that price range anyway, maybe, only because it'll be new and they'll charge you for it. This is one big revolution coming at us next year, gaming, movies and DRM protection. Time to start saving my pennies anyway :), wait what pennies :o P.S. Microsoft has not settled either for Blu-ray or HD-DVD in the Xbox 360, looks like they want to be on the winning team either way.


Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.

Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.

Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K

My advice: Wait for PS3.

4818.7.2005 12:28
duckNrun
Inactive

huh??? what??? eh???? --- sorry I was mesmerized for a moment :P (but it was from MY good looks rofl) the way I figure it is that what they're going to do is what they are going to do. I myself see no real danger in both formats being available and think that whichever format someone 'buys into to' will be supported long enough before 'another' upgrade is needed. I mean lets think this through for a moment. For the mediaphile or data hound 50(+) GB on a single disc is excellent (and the talk about enterprise editions of 100+ is even better). But now think hollywood.... A season of Soprano's or Friends' is what?? 5 regular DVDs? So we're talking maxed out at what 45GB (assuming theyre full) so now you buy ONE disc instead of 5. Cool all the way around, less space, less changing discs, better for environment etc etc Except, problem is now people are faced with paying $50-$70 even $100 for ONE DVD. And while it's the same amount of content as what was on 5 discs people will still look at it like they are paying $100 for ONE dvd. So in a way it may actually hurt the 'percieved' value of the movie/season set. And for regular movies, how many extras can they actually release that people will want? Will we soon see: extras menu 5 option 1: actor X driving into the set. Option 2 actress Y getting her pre-shot makeup done. Option 3 someone who you dont even care about or know (best boy grip maybe? lol) talking about how great it is being a part of this film working with such blah blah blah.....for example I remember hearing about the 10 DVD extreme edition of 'The Matrix' a few times... do I know a single person who bought it? Nope, great movie, but, exactly just how many camera angles do I want to see the same scene from...over and over...? Yeah extras are cool sometimes, but most people don't really care. How many times have we heard, in regards to decrypting, "I like it when the movie just plays, I don't care about the menu or extras...." So I see nothing conflicting, in hollywood going one format and data going another format all together. Yeah it might slow down the backups and copying that goes on in the dvd scene because most people wont justify buying both sets of hardware for the pc (to rip and burn) and another 2 sets for the settop (one to watch the origionals whether bought or rented) and one for the 'archived sets' they made on blu-ray (of course thats where us HTPC peeps come out ahead of the game lol) Eventually, you may even (probably!) see the incompatibilities resolved not by the media but when a manufacturer sees an opportunity for a buck and figures out how to make a dual blu-ray/HD DVD set. Recall the DVD +/- 'war' (lol) you don't hear anybody saying how the differences/incompatiblities killed the DVD market eh? So, I'm gonna do what I always do.. exactly what I want... and eventually either the industry comes my way or some software programmer does ;o)

4918.7.2005 18:58
Reasons?
Inactive

1. Blu-ray disc media has a lower production cost than a DVD because no glass layer is required in the manufacturing. Blu-ray disc single layer carries lower production cost per disc than a single layer DVD-/+R. 2. What consumers will be charged for blank media may be different, just like how we're getting raped on DL DVD media right now. It however doesn't have to be that way depending on how consumer are angered/boycott/buy less etc. Just like DL media has come down 50%. Blu-ray can be cheap, and will eventually not cost us much for 25GB. 3. Movies will come far from deciding the fate of blu-ray, but will benifit from it being cheap and big. Blu-ray media is a godsend for IT back-ups versus hard drives. 4. DVD-R and DVD+R can be played in the same players. Blu-ray will never be able to play inside an HD-DVD player. But, like blu-ray can play DVD blu-ray will, technically(HD-DVD makers won't let it happen if it's war), play HD-DVD disc similar to it's being able to play DVD. Blu-ray's surface tracks are too small for the larger laser of HD-DVD to read, but Blu-ray can read the larger track widths of HD-DVD and DVD with it's much more expensive and thinner/shorter laser. Like I said though, HD-DVD won't like that or let that happen during a format war. (Patent the ability to play HD-DVD media, duh :) Your decision is good, but we will never be faced with anything near a $100 tag on even the 8-layer discs (200GB) that are being developed. :) :( :o :p Talk about a load off.

5018.7.2005 21:42

Whew! It's 2:00 in the morning; I worked all day and I'm bushed, BUT you guys bring up some awfully good points !!! Reasons - actually, if the initial asking price for a PS3 is going to be $400, that's not really so bad at all for a 1st-generation blu-ray/hi-def device. It has been forecast that the first DVD-HD players will all be in the $1000 range. My 1st-generation DVD player (the Sony flagship model) cost me a friggen $1500 (Canadian). [Just goes to show what a dope a person can be when he gets itchy fingers and decides to become an 'Early Adopter'.] You can get a dvd player at Walmart now for 40 bucks. duckNrun - My god, if they continue to promote blu-ray's suitability to include even more useless Extras material, I'm going to blow chunks. I've been bitchingd about this as much as 3 years ago in here. 90% of all extras material is either 100% crap, or 100% unnecessary! ** I couldn't care LESS about what the main actor had for lunch on the 5th day of shooting on set #5. ** ONE angle is all I need or want, thank you very much. ** "Coming Attractions" (bloody trailers) are nothing more than extended infomercials foisted on us (especially by Disney) at the *beginning* of the movie, before you even get to it). ** I couldn't care LESS about 'deleted' scenes. If they weren't good enough to be put in the film in the first place, why would I be interested in them now? ** "Storyboards" put me to sleep. ** Alternate endings suck. ** Showing how the computer-generation effects were put together (as in Shrek), gives me crotchrot. I could go on. I too enjoyed the 3 Matrix films, but the sheer weight of the Extras Material will make you Numb with boredom. In fact, I find most bonus materials *painful* to watch. When using DVD-Shrink, I always delete this crap, including FBI warnings, Macrovision "Quality Protection" clips (what bullshit), actors' bios' (if I need to know how many movies Clint Eastwood starred in, I'll go to the internet), and a host of other useless material soley designed to make the disc more expensive for you 'n me, and more profitable for the studios. Example: If you want to buy JUST the original Shrek movie, you're out of luck. It comes as a 2-Disc-Only release. The 2nd disc is all extras stuff 90% of buyers would be quite happy to do without, but it means that the studio gets to sell you two discs instead of one. Did you know? It is *quite* routine now to have secondary film crews filming the primary film crews as they are in the process of making the movie, JUST to create some 'extras' stuff. ALL Hollywood movies are made today with the EXTRAS material firmly in mind, no matter how stupid, boring or useless those extras may be. It's a price-grab, pure and simple. You're right about perceived-value when it comes to Joe Public plunking down (say) $100 bucks for a single disc. THAT will take a bit of educating to be sure, because the value IS there! A 100-gig blu-ray disc of (say) standard tv episodes, would be a thing of beauty if you ask me. It would save SCADS of storage space, and pretty much make the need for a 5-disc changer obsolete. Although I suppose that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD could likely co-exist (blu-ray for computer/video data storage) and HD-DVD for commercial films), I hope it doesn't come to that. If both camps can set aside their greed long enough to make a cooperative deal, then there's NO reason why one unified format couldn't be ideal for both purposes, and make life easier for us consumers in the bargain. (WHY should we be forced to choose between incompatible formats just because the conglomerates can't get their act(s)/shit together?) It is WE who are going to be parting with our hard-earned dollars! (God, I love ranting!) :-) What else? Oh poo..... I'm quite tired this morning, but I'll have to review youze guyze's posts later on 'cause you made a lot of other good points too. :)

5119.7.2005 6:28
Reasons?
Inactive

No kidding, I am so sick of extras. I just want the whole season on one disc insted of four. Or to have both widescreen and full screen on one disc. Some deleted scenes aren't bad, but those extras are mostly garbage. I hate it. Blu-ray will have it's uses, but if they throw more extras at me I'm going to break. This is exactly why I take just the movie, completely uncompressed 95% of the time, and burn it to a 40 cent disc. I don't want anything, not even the menu. Just pop it in and it starts playing the movie. No one watches the extras, scrap them and gives us an ultra HD movie like HW is always saying they'll give us with HD-DVD. Damn, just cut the extras and then you can gives us ultra HD!!!

5219.7.2005 7:41

(Wow) - I too could live without Menus. When it comes to films (or TV episodes, which I love), "interactivity" is something I definately do not require or want. (It is quite an amazing thing to hear about this from you, Reasons - a confessed gamester - where interactivity reins supreme.) <g> But what you describe (just popping in the disc and have it begin playback immediately) is - for me - the preferred way for a disc to act. It's known as a "Linear Play" dvd - it acts just like a VHS tape (but looks a lot better of course) - playback begins automaticaly. On my backups, it's not necessary to choose from among 8, short 1/2-hour (25 min) tv shows from a menu; it's not necessary to sit through an FBI or copyright warning *each* time before that episode plays, it's not necessary to choose which audio track I want to listen to each time (I do that ahead of time when I use DVD Shrink). I agree, there are indeed some Extras worth having - I'm not dismissing Extras altogether, but I'm tired of being bilked ($$) for useless matrial just because Hollywood is greedy. You can always include which bonus tracks you want, and just add them as regular video clips. If you'll notice, a lot of 8-episodes-per-disc TV dvds force you to return to the Main Menu each time an episode ends, which is a pain in the ass. When you dump the Menu, all episodes play back in perfect sequence. (To be fair, *some* dvd menus have a "Play All Episodes" option, but don't depend on the availability of this feature). The only 'interactivity' I need is a simple remote control to choose which tv show I want to watch. Click-click. And you're right, by the time you dump all the extras-nonsense from an expensive, dual-layer movie disc, (and unneeded foreign-language audio tracks) it very often fits comfortably on a .40c single-layer blank, *without* any compression whatsoever. Oy! :) (I have to get ready for work now). Gotta make some $$$ so the poor folks in Hollywood will have someone to sell their Boner tracks to! :-)

5319.7.2005 19:24
duckNrun
Inactive

you guys hit it right on the head, perhaps we should form a consulting group and promote our services to HW (lol). Just to clarify, I meant a Season Disc for $100 not a blank. While this is higher than most (I've just seen most for as low as $35 upwards of $70) but last time I looked at Sopranos or even a few others that I cant recall right now (sorry) they did post a $89-99 tag. I too like the seasons discs and am going to have to repent for 'coveting' your Star Trek collection :o) also wish I could afford more seasons of more shows e.g Sliders and Quantum Leap besides completing my Friends and Soprano's seasons. Just so many choices (note to HW I am NOT complaining about choices lol) I, like you many here, sure could use mass storage DVD's. It kind of amazes me that average consumers don't get it. Once when I jokingly 'complained' to a Wal-Mart electronics employee about them not carrying quality media and nothing bigger than 30 pk's he looked at me dumbfounded and actually said "why would anyone need a 100 pack of DVD's? That's a lot of storage" pmsl. And that is alot of storage about a TB. But they sure do fill up fast, I'm mainly using them as cheap storage media until eventually HDD space drops even lower than it now, and also TB drives (as a single unit not the Raid TB Drives they offer now) at 0.40 per 4.37 GB thats a '400' GB 'drive' for about 40 bucks! Yeah I know... not really a drive but in terms of storage capacity... so be nice :P Anyways class starts way to early in the morning and this is cutting into my sleep time ;o)

5419.7.2005 19:32
Reasons?
Inactive

A hundo DVDs is a little less than half a terabyte, and the biggest HDD availabe is 500GB, or half a TB. Just clarifying that, I think you were thinking 500 was a TB, it's all by the 1000s generally when measuring HDD and (now I know>>>>>) media too. Yeah, X-files are up in the $90 range I think. Your right it is cheaper if you don't have to change the data.

5519.7.2005 19:36
Sliztzan
Inactive

just read couple or three days ago that they are in peace talks :) Are they actually going to consider the consumer? "The good of the one outweighed the good of the many." ... or something like that. Dammit Spock!

5619.7.2005 20:50

"I would accept that as an axiom, Captain....(er).... Sliztzan." Unfortunately, I fear the needs of the few (technology-company owners/stockholders) far outweigh the needs of the many (you 'n me). You mean, they're actually *talking* to each other again ??? (Hmmmmmm....) Well, this time I hope they smarten up. 4th-quarter 2005 draws ever nigh....... (the release date for HD-DVD). Sony's gotta do *something* QUICK before those promised 89 HD-DVD titles start showing up on the retailer's shelves before christmas. I have NO idea why Sony hasn't already shipped some of their blu-ray burners to North America and Europe. They're already selling them in Japan. Although I'm very interested in all this stuff, (as you can no doubt tell), I'm going to sit this one out. It's the only sensible thing to do. Let 'em kill each other if they really feel they must. Sooner or later, I'll know which format to buy!

5720.7.2005 7:51
duckNrun
Inactive

lol yeah my math was way funky last night (darn pain pills lol), 100 DVD is about 1/2 TB I was mixing in too many thoughts, at once, about dvd9's and 5's. :o)

5820.7.2005 8:19
Reasons?
Inactive

Lol, at least you were on something then :) No, peace talks are still over, it was probally an old article you read. Sony already has it invested into the PS3, so HD-DVD can back down if they want. Sony doesn't feel threatened by either HD-DVD or the Xbox 360 lauching first. Blu-ray must truely be better, and HD-DVD buyers are going to get burned. How would you feel if you bought it for $500 then found out this new Blu-ray thing it 10GB more for the same damn price? That would suck and that's what Sony ha splanned I bet. I am buying everything Blu-ray the second it hits the shelves, because I know it's the better, more advanced (obviously) technology.


Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.

Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.

Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K

My advice: Wait for PS3.

5920.7.2005 8:36

Yep -- I think Blu-Ray is a whole new thing altogether, a huge jump forward over what we now have, and a worthy successor to DVD, while HD-DVD is just more-or-less an extension of the present system. If we're going to be entering the new Hi-Definition World sonn (which we are), we may as well do it in style and go blu-ray. But don't buy into it too soon. I know you're anxious (me too), but you might want to see how others fare with the system first before plunking down your money. A month away, the same player might be had for $100 bucks less, or someone may find that the DRM is too horrific to describe, or any one of a million problems may start showing up.

6020.7.2005 13:03
Reasons?
Inactive

Yeah, I'll wait for a decent price drop and then get a good Sony internal drive. Internal drives tend to be cheaper. As far a media goes I will probally only buy a small 5 pack or so, just to get an idea of what the media is like and how well it works for data too. As for playing them I'll see if anyoen figures out how to get the PS3 to play copies, if not I'll buy a real player after a few months. Then we've got the whole copyright protection thing. Hey, maby if we put the region code back on and re-encrypt it, we might get lucky. But then again, They can detect a copied one any way because of the disc can't they?


Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.

Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.

Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K

My advice: Wait for PS3.

6120.7.2005 19:07

Internal drives.....(hmmmm....), well yes, I want one too, but... I only have 2 IDE slots. Each slot will take 2 devices - a primary and a slave. I already have 3 HDDs and a dual-layer burner hooked up, so I'm plumb out of plug-in space. (I think). The dual-layer, +/- burner is the best one yet that I've owned - I hate to lose the bugger. It works perfectly and is only a coupla months old. I'll probably have to let one of my hard drives go to make room for the blu-ray. (ratz) Unless blu-rays will come in an optional external USB model ..... Shame too, because I just bought a whopping big tower case - I still have room for 3, front-mount, full-size devices but no place to plug those devices in. Oh poo...... :-\

6220.7.2005 20:26
Reasons?
Inactive

USB will most likely be avail. right away, but it will be more expensive no doubt. I have an empty HDD slot and a drive bay, sweet! Because my second DVD burner is USB, that way I had room for a more important 5.25" device, like Blu-ray!! When I first heard of Blu-ray, and then how long before AMD would support DDR2. I figured Blu-ray would be out before I built a new PC, so I left the slot empty for it :) anticipation, no?


Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.

Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.

Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K

My advice: Wait for PS3.

6320.7.2005 22:58

DDR2 ?? What's that, Reasons? I too have an AMD cpu (2.4 Ghz), but I've never heard of "DDR2". Anyway, I've just figured out what to do..... I'll wait 'till you get a new blu-ray burner, then look for your findings. I'll wait to see if you (have to) pull your hair out in frustration because of some unforeseen snaffu or whatever. Cool! Yes, YES, Reasons, you *must* run out and get a blu-ray right away, (so that I can sit on my a--), and let you work out all the early-adopter problems for me! I can see it now...... I can see you camping out with a sleeping bag in a 50+ lineup at your local Walmart store at 4:00 on a still-dark Monday morning, because they announced they will have 50 blu-ray units available on a first-come, first-serve basis as soon as the door opens.... Wheeeeeeeeee!!!!! :=)

6421.7.2005 8:03
Reasons?
Inactive

That's the way to go, have someone else try it first. And I will be one of them. DDR2, is the successor of DDR which (DDR not DDR2) is in your PC right now. You probally are running DDR-400 (PC3200). DDR2 basically requires different memory controllers to handle data rates and distribution to DDR2's higher clock speeds ranging from 533MHz to a whopping 800MHz, twice as fast as anything you can run on your AMD now. Intel has DDR2 because they only need chipset change, because the memory controllers are housed in the motherboard. AMD however has memory controllers inside the actual CPU!! That means AMD has to launch a new line of CPUs to adopt DDR2. But, AMD hasn't done it yet because the design (CPU housing memory controllers) is what makes AMD perform so much better than intel. So, actually, A current AMD CPU is still faster than an intel with DDR2 even though the AMD is stuck working on 400MHz memory. When AMD does adopt DDR2, then intel is screwed and AMD will really blow past them. But it will be costly for AMD to develope the new CPUs and unfortunately render the old CPUs, relatively, obsolete. As for camping outside, naw, I think I'll find out some way to have Best Buy reserve one for me. All I need is a release date now.


Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.

Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.

Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K

My advice: Wait for PS3.

6521.7.2005 20:06
Sliztzan
Inactive

If nobody bought anything I would be so happy. That would show them. Did I hear boycott!!?? Sorry, just a little dream of mine.

6619.8.2005 8:46

This debate sounds very familiar. It started with 33RPM records. Nobody argues that they were far superior to 78RPM. Then came 45RPM which had no purpose except for RCA to steal the recording business from everybody else. Then it was Beta vs VHS. Anyone who used Beta will say it was the best format, but VHS caught on. We'll see what happens. This time, I'm waiting before I spend money. As for the movie industry complaining about sales, why don't they makes some movies for a change? I'm sick of everything being animated. I guess animators are cheaper than actors, but not if it kills their sales. That's all that's really wrong with the movie industry. Also, it would be a good idea to pay actors what they are worth. That would reduce costs considerably. No actor is worth millions for making a movie. There are many good actors out there who can't get started because the industry seems to think the big names are indispensible. Personally, I gave up going to a theater when movies prices passed $5.00. It's cheaper to buy or rent.

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