AfterDawn: Tech news

Xbox 360 release date and price leaked?

Written by Lasse Penttinen @ 02 Aug 2005 13:29 User comments (117)

Xbox 360 release date and price leaked? There is a lot of rumors, gossip and unconfirmed information floating about the next generation of gaming consoles.
Based on an unconfirmed source within the staff of Walmart, it is now suggested that the retail price of the Xbox 360 in North America is US$299.99. Also the release date for the product would be November 4th. Microsoft is yet to make an official statement, we will have to wait as more information submerges for confirmation.
Unconfirmed reports stemming from Walmart employees have today suggested a North American retail price for the Xbox 360 and its launch titles, allegedly set to arrive in shop stores on November 4th.

Naturally a smidgeon of sceptism should be maintained until Microsoft makes an official announcement, however the $299.99 price point hardly appears to be out of the bounds of possibility
Source: TotalVideogames

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117 user comments

12.8.2005 13:52

Weird... I went to GameCrazy by my house and the guys there said $400. They would not give me a date though. I know Wal-Mart sells under MSRP but, not $100 under.

22.8.2005 14:48

Hope it's cheap in the UK cuz I might consider getting all 3 consoles (X-Box 360, PS3 and Nintendo Revolution) for more variety.

32.8.2005 15:51

can't wait to get it

42.8.2005 16:06

if the 360 is $299 i may be able to buy it!!! i hope it's not $400.

52.8.2005 16:19

Nah, its definitely 299. PS3 is h only rumored system that is set by the general public at the price of about 399. Either way its definitely worth it.

62.8.2005 21:07

Don't you just loved leaks like this. Should have the opposition's costing accountants running around in a flurry

73.8.2005 1:27
Rosco404
Inactive

For the UK i bet its around 299 (maybe even more) not $299 (170) for you's in the US :( .....

83.8.2005 2:35

ya its funny how massive multinational american companies carnt do the simplet thing like use the conversion rate coreectly........ its the maths you see its easier to just change the curency symbol

93.8.2005 6:34

Wll the currency exchange rate does fluctuate... so they think "why not just change the $ to and we're covered" :( It's the usual myth spread by corporate spin doctors of higher costs etc's, which doesn't wash so much in the modern global market, it's actually down to higher profits. If they were honest they would say "we charge what the heck we can get away with!" My own marketing department have worked exhaustively research an optimum price for the Xbox 360. It's cost thousands of man hours and millions of dollars, and they finally presented their report which recommends: $360 :)

103.8.2005 8:50

I hope the price is under 300 for UK.. -Mike

113.8.2005 9:55
Reasons?
Inactive

$300 sounds reasonable. They'll be losing a little money, but you have to remeber it's cheaper to make these things when they are expected garunteed sell outs and 300 million plus unit sales across the glode within the year

123.8.2005 12:39

When does revolution come out? And why dont they come out when PS3 and XBOX 360 does so that they can get in in the competition to!

133.8.2005 13:23

The revolution is rumored to hit the streets, at least in Japan, in March 2006. It will sell for a LOT less than XBox 360 of PS3...probably lower than 200 and maybe even 150. (That is a GUESS on price, do not take that as a literal price). They know full well they can not compete AGAINST M$ and Sony. Their plan is to create their own market...mainly kids and family type games. You gotta admit, no one does party games like Nintendo. :) So, don't look for them to go head to head with Sony and M$...it just isn't going to happen. But their strategy may well pay off anyway. Especially with the downloadable games from all the previous Nintendo systems. That is pure genius.

143.8.2005 14:02

Absolutely. You said it! "Pure Genius!"

153.8.2005 18:36

everythings eventual, price leaks will always be rumored, but leave it up to places like wal-mart to make an oops and announce the prices before the companies themselves. This dates back all the way to PSone. and has kept leaking since then and from now will.

163.8.2005 21:35

Listen. I have the Xbox Magazine Subscription and they said in fine PRINT : Cost : 299.99US > about 359.99cdn release date: Anywhere from November 4th to Nov. 10th ( depending on where u live ) SO DONT WORRY FOLKS WHO THINK U CANT AFFORD IT. I MEAN C'MON, ITS XBOX 360.

173.8.2005 21:38

Listen. I have the Xbox Magazine Subscription and they said in fine PRINT : Cost : 299.99US > about 359.99cdn release date: Anywhere from November 4th to Nov. 10th ( depending on where u live ) SO DONT WORRY FOLKS WHO THINK U CANT AFFORD IT. I MEAN C'MON, ITS XBOX 360.

184.8.2005 7:17
gamer78
Inactive

It better do more than just play games!!!!

194.8.2005 8:59

Come on guys even if it was 400, I dont think it is that high. The hardware alone must cost a fortune to manufacture. Also alot of hardcore gamers drop 500 bucks on the top of the line video cards, which suck after 2 years.

204.8.2005 9:58

true about the graphics cards, and im sure people would say that the console is well worth 300 with all the extra gismos and gadgets its got. however im not too sure if there is going to be a great differnce in the graphics between these machienes, OK there like 10 times as powerfull but the ps2 was supposed to be so much more powerfull then the dremacast and the xbox 3 times the power of the ps2, but line games side by side each opther and there isent a world of differnce between the xbox and ps2. not becasue the hardware isent good enough but simply becasue only a few devlopers ever take full advatages of the full power. i think definatly the early launch titles for the 360 will just look like really good xbox games on the basis of a few game trailers i have at the moment they look exactly the same but im sure they were no where near finished when they trailers were released. it takes the devlopers ages to push the hardware to anywhwere near its limits and if the 360 is 300 over here in the uk i will probally wait until its 200 (unless halo 3 is a luanch title LOL) or of course if mods are made avaible ealry which i doubt, i will get one from america, it seems in the UK we get screwed all the time though!!!!! i remember paying 300 for the xbox on launch to find out a month later they had reduced the price by 100 and offered me the choice of a shitty joypad and either project gotham which i had or abes odd world which was shite and i think at the time i got 8 for it at the market. i hope when it is realesed over here it is about the 200 mark which is still more then the 180 converstion rateing of $300 dollers but its better then nothing, and dont even get me started on game prices!!!!!!!

214.8.2005 16:12
f00dl3
Inactive

I paid $399 alone for an ATI Raedon X800 Pro AGP Video card for my computer. I am not going to update my computer again - I'm buying a console system. The PC gaming industry is going to go dead real soon if they don't lower prices on high-end video cards, CPUs (some of those AMD processors are upwards of $500), RAM, and motherboards.

224.8.2005 16:41

The computer gaming industry is NOT going to go dead any time soon. That has been predicted for 20 years now and has never come true. And it probably never will. You don't have to have a 500 dollar graphics card to enjoy PC gaming. PC gaming will survive. However, consoles make it nicer in many regards. Put game in, play. On a PC, you have to mess with configuration to get the best performance and graphics. Not as convenient, but, in the end, consoles will never keep up with PC's. Yes, the new consoles will beat PC's for what, 6 months, a year tops? Then PC's will be back on top. It's been going on this way for YEARS.

234.8.2005 17:12
f00dl3
Inactive

There is one other catch to PC gaming. In order to play most games out there that you PAY for, you have to enter a CD key and have the CD in all times to play even if you do a full install. With console games, you dont have to worry about that shit.

244.8.2005 17:29

I don't worry about it anyway. I have a big enough hard drive where I generally image the cd or dvd and run it as a virtual drive using Daemon Tools or other such software. The cd key is only entered once, so, it's not a big deal. Yes, it's not nearly as convenient as putting a disc in a console and turning it on. That's why I own 3 consoles and will most likely buy the next 3 as well. Still, I like the ability to play games on my laptop. (Yea, I have a very nice Dell laptop that can play Doom3 and HL2 at high res and full speed). In my case, it really depends on the game. For role playing and shooting games, I prefer the PC experience. For racing, fighting, sports, and party games, nothing beats a console. That's just my opinion, however.

255.8.2005 0:34

It has probably been confirmed or will be soon by M$. Release Date : November 4th, 2005 Cost : All stores will have different prices C-IT-4-URSELF @ www.360hacker.net NOTE: Look at the top of the website, it has # of days till Launch (hense Nov. 9th)

265.8.2005 1:36

HATE XBOX!! I cant wait for PS3!!! There is no way im gonna get the 360! PS3 it is :D

275.8.2005 7:46
kcsat
Inactive

I have had PS2 and Xbox, the modifications you can do to an Xbox make it an extraordinary machine. I only hope that the same modifications are made available quickly for the new Xbox.

285.8.2005 10:06

I hear it will cost about 300 and games will be 60. So when they bundle the console with a game, guess how much that bundle will cost. :)


"Superior thinking has always prevailed over superior force."

295.8.2005 10:28

Quote:
I hear it will cost about 300 and games will be 60. So when they bundle the console with a game, guess how much that bundle will cost. :)
erm, 359.99?
--
Tony Blair lied, people died. One person's "Shock and Awe" is another person's "Terrorism".
Scaremongering is the new rock and roll: Ways of dying before the 'terrorists' get you: police custody, smoking, drinking, car accident, hospital superbug, being on an NHS waiting list, violent mugging, murdered by friend/family, heart attack, cancer, food poisoning, profit induced safety cuts, noxious substance in your ready-meal, prescription drugs (co-proxymol or paracetamol), nuclear accident, American friendly-fire...

305.8.2005 10:31
dr.cool
Inactive

well i put $320 us down on the 360 and the guys at game stop say at most the 360 will cost 375 us so they dont lose anything

315.8.2005 12:40

noobism: "pc gaming industry will disappear! I paid 400$ for a video card so prices are high and it will disappear" OMG cant you read yourself? By concidence I also have an ati x800 pro that rocks by the way and i have spent a lot of money on my pc (3.2 ht p4 with 2gigs memory) and guess what? the more we spend the more this industry will live! and if video cards of 500$ keep being sold out on release then that means the industry is just GROWIN. If you paid 400$ then you cannot bitch about, and like some guy said you can have your tnt2 and play pc games, but forget about source at 80+fps. Believe me, pc gaming industry is a GOLD MINE industry and it is GROWING. That is why industries like sony and microsoft are investing on it, do you think they care about us? lol they just see the chance of making money and there they go. They are even willing to lose money on the consoles just to take the market. NOTE: nintendo's downloadable games idea rocks

325.8.2005 14:01

Quote:
I hear it will cost about 300 and games will be 60.
UK Or US? -Mike

335.8.2005 18:09

MIKE EITHER ONE. It all depended on EA Games to set a price and the other companies followed. (games) So far the price stands, no matter what you've been told, 59.99 USD

346.8.2005 11:03

Dont u think its ironic how every time new next-gen systems come out, they all come out the same time. ex. In 2001, Ps2 came out just before Christmas and about 6 months later Xbox and Gamecube come out nearly the same time. I think M$, Sony, & Nintendo get together and have their release dates set before they even start making the system. BUT WHAT THE HELL, I LIKE DRAMA EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. GO M$ AND XBOX 360 !!!!!!

358.8.2005 13:25

hey.. i was just wondering. can you play normal Xbox games on the new Xbox 360? or you got to buy brand new games?

368.8.2005 13:29

Backwards compatibility is not a black and white issue where the xbox 360 is concerned. They say the most popular xbox games will be compatible. More obscure games may not be.

378.8.2005 15:42

Backwards Compatibility Is A Go. According to the August Issue of Xbox Magazine and I quote " The Backwards Compatibility thing has been settled - Microsoft will pay a royalty to Nvidia to put the original Xbox chip combined with the Custom ATI chip in the 360 ,so all xbox games that have been released since January 2004, And All the Number 1 hits before January 04' ( ex. Halo 1, Doom 1 & 2, etc. )should play fine on the 360. PROBLEM SOLVED !!! NOW TIME TO SHIP FOR NOV.4th RELEASE DATE. WOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

389.8.2005 6:04

woo hoo it's JUST an xbox... i can wait for the new nes. i've ben a gamer since 1985. now i have a family, most of my buddies have families now too. this revolution is going to be the ticket, as long as they keep the controller and buttons laid back. as for the 360, what was the %age of asians that prefer the ps3 to the 360? yeah, i can definitly wait.

399.8.2005 7:16

HEY MNcordia. If u dont like XBOX then y did u post ur crapy little comment on here. u should of put that comment on the Ps3 side. Oh By The Way. " NES IS FOR AGES 6-12 " so be happy with ur kiddy king of gaming. Wats 360 for again, oh ya Mature. sumthin ur not i guess

409.8.2005 21:55

excuse me for being ignorant but this shouldnt even be an argument... systems always release in november and december because that is console season!!! and jeez gamecube ps2 xbox all system news start out 299... you guys apparently dont quite catch on to the obvious cycle... sorry for being harsh but honestly!! whatever though...

419.8.2005 22:20
adamryer
Inactive

box_bitch there isnt an "obvious cycle" for the price of consoles. They just happen to be that price because if it where to low the company would loose too much money, any higher and people wont buy it, the "cycle" will most likely be broken by the ps3, sony claims it will be expensive, so expect it to be at least $400.


ASRock 890GX PRO 3, AMD Phenom II X2 555 BE, 8GB GSkill Sniper DDR3 1333,
Main HDD: WD Raptor 74GB 10,000rpm, Storage HDD: 1TB WD Caviar Black,
Lite-On iHAS124-04 --> LT Burner Max FW,
Samsung BX2331 23" LED Widescreen LCD,
Xbox 360 Premium 20GB --> Hitachi v0078fk --> LT+2.0

429.8.2005 22:27

hmm i sense hostility in the force... yess... well anyway "up to this point" I have noticed something resemblant of a cycle... allow me to put it in my perspective: gamecube-released november-300$ ps2-released november-300$ xbox-released november-300$ what did dreamcast cost? anyway... do you understand my reasoning??


the pen is mightier than the sword... if its sharpened, hardened, dipped in poison and thrown from 5 ft away, but your better off with the sword.

4310.8.2005 1:33

back to my question.. im a big fan of xbox, but im not much of a wiz when it comes to knowing every detail about it.. so what was said about the new xbox 360 being able to play normal xbox games is yes now? all best sellers and games that came out in 2004? or just all games. because im selling my xbox tomorrow and i need to know if i should keep my games fro when 360 comes out, or sell those too.. hmm well thanks for your help haha.

4410.8.2005 20:40

some of u say that the pc will always remain dominant. the 360 graphics alone crush the pc graphics cards. if any of u know about graphics cards u know that a pc card will have around 16 pielines!!! big deal, the 360 will have 48 pipelines. the memory alone runs at 700mhz! pc memory runs at a piddly 333mhz or for newer pcs 400mhz. if u dont believe me look up the specs for the 360. theyll blow your mind. far superior than any pc on the market today. even those of u w/pci express. just my 2 cent

4511.8.2005 4:09

Why do people not get this? So the xbox 360 has superior graphics to any PC on the market...TODAY. Big deal. I love consoles and have my xbox 360 pre-ordered, but, you fail to realize something HUGE in that little comparison of yours. Xbox 360 will be around for 5 years. I'm quite sure that within those 5 years, PC graphics, oh, I don't know, might improve! Look at who MAKES the console graphics and what they're based on. ATI...yup, they make PC graphics. NVidia...yup, they ALSO make PC graphics. A 300-500 dollar console is NOT going to keep up with growth in the PC market no matter how bad you want it to. PC graphics a year from now will either equal or bury the consoles. That's just a fact of life. Now, back to the topic at hand, I for one can't wait for the 360. I think it's going to be an awesome little machine.

4611.8.2005 8:07

hey noob pc is always going to be more powerful. dont be stupid

4711.8.2005 13:33

Gamecube came out at 199.00 USD at launch, thats why I bought it first. The Revolution will probably release at the same price or 250.00 USD max. You should know your facts before you start blabbing. Mature you say? Does going on a killing spree with a machine gun or puzzle solving determine someone's maturity? Just because it's not M rated doesn't mean that the game sucks.

4812.8.2005 13:46

OK IM GOING TO ASK ONE LAST TIME..... CAN YOU PLAY NORMAL XBOX GAMES ON THE NEW XBOX 360

4912.8.2005 14:18

Omg, don't demand like that. WAIT and read, you willl find out your question. Demanding like that and using caps, is NOT the best way of getting it answered. - The Xbox 360 is compatible with top (popular) Xbox games apparently. Check out the site. -Mike

5012.8.2005 16:50

Here are my thoughts on the 360......BETTER than a PC! wait what am i saying, it is a computer. heres the specs..... Digital Media Support--Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD......Ability to stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras and Windows XP-based PCs.......Ability to rip music to the Xbox 360 hard drive.....Custom playlists in every game....Built-in Media Center Extender for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005.........Interactive, full-screen 3-D visualizers Storage--Detachable and upgradeable 20GB hard drive 12x dual-layer DVD-ROM Memory Unit support starting at 64 MB Built-in Ethernet port Wi-Fi ready: 802.11a, 802.11b, and 802.11g there it is, a computer. lol

5112.8.2005 17:43

quote--"HEY MNcordia. If u dont like XBOX then y did u post ur crapy little comment on here. u should of put that comment on the Ps3 side. Oh By The Way. " NES IS FOR AGES 6-12 " so be happy with ur kiddy king of gaming. Wats 360 for again, oh ya Mature. sumthin ur not i guess" Hey jason. dont be a bitch, he just said he had a family, so apperently thats why he wants the nintendo. so dont post your crappy little comment in hear....bitch

5212.8.2005 20:40

I have a family, I play videos games, I bought a Gamecube. Worst decision I ever made, even my 8 year old agrees. Give me a Xbox 360!

5312.8.2005 23:24

Hey Thug1988. Y dont u mind ur own F***in Business. I was just comparing High powered, Kick Ass Systems - to low powered pieces of crap ( Such As Nintendo ) . I wasnt dissing him personally. If he has a family, then thats good for him and best of luck to him, but callin me a BITCH just because i was telling everyone the difference between Kiddy Systems and Systems that r rated M . THEN GO TO HELL, DOUCHEBAG ( Oh by the way; Ive changed my mind. Revolution and 360 r goin to kick PS3's ass right out of this world and leave Sony crying like a LITTLE BITCH )

5413.8.2005 1:30

why the hell would i mind my own business...its a forum?

5513.8.2005 6:37

Oh ya... jason... your a shit-bird... buy a ps3 so we don't have to put up with you on LIVE.

5613.8.2005 15:10

who ever thinks the xbox 360 will be better then a computer is wrong because they are putting computer parts in it, so u can order the xbox and put the parts in ur computer if you want, then the pc is already just as good and, dont think the pc wont pass is it instantly, there allready probly developed better parts for example, ps3.... (i would still rather and xbox)


Trying is the first step towards failure.

5713.8.2005 15:31

I would Never buy anything from Sony cause all their stuff breaks down so easily and pisses me off. Thats why i moved to being a M$/ Xbox Fan because sony and Playstaion suck. And I dont care how faster it is more than the 360, it doesnt have the grafics and games to be called a great system. AND WE ALL KNOW, THAT GRAFICS AND GAMES COMES FIRST IN MAKING A NEW SYSTEM, SUMTHIN SONY MIGHT NEED TO WORK ON INSTEAD OF SPEED. CAUSE SPEED GETS U NO WHERE. AND Im not that bad of a guy on LIVE, Oh, do u have Conker Live & Reloaded?? ull find me on LIVE on that game for now. C-U-l8r

5813.8.2005 16:03

Hey Jason, the only little cryin bitch right now is you, Dude Nintendo has commanded the video game market since NES came out, and has been left untouched untill Xbox came out. nintendo is a great console, it's cames are just crap, Cept for Zelda. Hell Nintendo basically invented video games (Dont start bitchin sayin someone else did, I dont care who did, nintendo revolutionized it) so go back to your parents basement and cry yourself to sleep cuz you dont have a girl in your life. latah deuche

5913.8.2005 16:05

Hey Jason, you cant even spell graphics. Go back to preschool and learn that "PH" together can make the F sound

6013.8.2005 17:42

You guys really need to relax and quit acting like 5 year olds. It's just a game console.

6113.8.2005 19:18

I dont know what the hell u r talkin about Hatethatg. I was saying that Nintendo and Xbox Rock, and Sony Sucks (If u read on at the end where it says Revolution and 360 r goin to kick ass). I already know that graphics is spelt with a "ph" and i do live in my parents basement. THANK U FOR ASKING

6213.8.2005 22:21

The only reason you started to say that nintendo was ok was because you knew i'd kick your ass

6313.8.2005 22:40

to all u pany waist cupcakes out there that think their pc is some day going to live up to the ps3 or xbox 360, just bite the bullit and go to bed. the only thing in the future of the pc world is what alienware is producing. dual pci express. still only 2 graphics cards, one processor, common memory, and way to much fuckin money if u ask me. besides, two graphics card(only 32 pipelines vs 48 pipelines) is still not enough to top the 360. and yes the 360 is sort of a pc, but not one u can buy common interchangable parts for a pc. cost less, better games, better graphics = my approval. by the way ive built pcs and sold them and if u dont like it .............bite me!

6413.8.2005 23:02

No. the only reason why i said that Nintendo Revolution is also a good high-quality system is because a friend of mine gave me the specs sheet for Revolution and thought that it was off the chain. i mean, being able to have wireless everything, being able to play all 5 systems ( Rev., Gcube, N64, Snes,& Nes via a built in internet that allows u to download all the games to the hard drive then being able to play them all the time) and WiFi built right in as well, thats kickin some major ass. Id like to c Sony make a system like that, that is affordable. LOL TTYL

6514.8.2005 7:57

So you were callin the revolution crap before you even knew what it had? wow way to go.

6614.8.2005 11:07

Yes. I realize that i had made a mistake calling the revolution a piece of crap before ( that was because of its looks ). But then when i looked at the specs sheet, well........ then my mind changed & said to myself " It may not have the looks like the 360 and PS3 does, but it sure beats the hell out of them when it comes to wireless everything and a built in internet" Now im savin up for a Revoultion and a Xbox 360 NINTENDO & M$ ALL THE FRICKEN WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6714.8.2005 13:55

What are you talking about??? the PS3 looks like a cross between a fax machine, a toaster, and a coffee maker...its the ugliest pile of crap i've ever seen.

6814.8.2005 14:08

Yes. I already knew that the PS3 was the uglist pile of shit before, thats why i didnt talk about cause every1 knew that it was a piece of crap. Even the system its self is a piece of crap. THATS WHY SONY SUCKS MAJOR BALLS. CRAPY DESIGN< CRAPY SYSTEMS< JUST A PLAIN CRAPY COMPANY. AND IF ANYBODY LOVES THE PS3, THEN THEY PROBABLY NEED TO GET OUT MORE, OR STEP OUT OF THEIR WORLD AND PLAY IN A DIFFERENT 1. LOL GO NINTENDO & M$

6914.8.2005 14:12

I also take back saying that PS3 was a good looking system, it actually looks like a bulbous cigarrette shape. MAYBE : Sony has partnered with the Tobacco company and when ( or if ) little kids buy the PS3, then they get them hooked on the cigarrettes just because the PS3 looks "AWSOME" in their world and they have to do everything that Sony does. HMMMMMMMM........

7014.8.2005 14:15

Unsubscribed. This thread has become insanely ridiculous. I for one will own all 3 systems as each one provides something unique over the others. To dislike a system because of the way it looks is just plain stupid.

7114.8.2005 14:19

Ya, well not all of us r rich like u maybe so we have to eliminate the crapiest one cause of its looks and/or specs ( So in this next-gen race we would have to eliminate PS3 ) . HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

7214.8.2005 16:18

That's fine and all, but, I personally like the Tekken series of games. And those have traditionally been exclusive to Playstation. Maybe in the next gen that'll change. I doubt it. And you don't have to be rich to be able to afford all 3. I never said I was buying them all at launch. I have the Xbox 360 pre-ordered and once a month I put money towards it so that when launch time gets here I'll have the system already paid for and I'll be able to pick up a few games. Sony claims the PS3 will cost more but last for 10 years. I'm quite sure that between the time it's released +10 years, I'll get one. After all, the investment is NOT in the hardware. Over the course of a console's life, you're far more likely to spend more in games than you did in hardware. And if money is a true concern, spend it on the hardware and rent the games. Or settle for one or two of the consoles like you're doing. But all 3 will have exclusive games and I don't want to be limited as to what I can and can't play. After all, the ENTIRE experience of consoles is about playing games...at least, it should be. I could care less which one has better hardware. I'm a software engineer so I care about software(e.g. games). It's something to think about.

7314.8.2005 17:29

That is the best thing ive read about choosing systems since, well......... ever. Everybody is either buying 1 or 2 of the systems ( like me)and dissing the other 1, but u, u leave ur door open to many oportunities & that i can agree with. Do u have msn? , then wats ur e-mail ? hope to hear from u later

7414.8.2005 17:46

I've resubscribed to the thread simply because I feel we can finally have an intelligent discussion of the systems and their potential. That's all I want. The problem with dissing a system that you've not seen yet is you have no idea what its potential is other than what the marketing idiots tell you. Marketing is ALWAYS bad and leads you to believe that the product is the best thing since the discovery of the electron. The best system in the world improperly programmed still sucks. Let's look at history for a minute. The PS2 is remarkable hardware wise, yet, because it is SO difficult to program for, the xbox ended up with SOME better games. That is of course an opinion, not a fact. The xbox is basically a PC. (The Xbox 360, not so much) It was easy to develop for so we saw some incredible games. Now, the game cube was the weakest of the current gen systems, but, a fairly easy to program machine. Look at the latest Resident Evil to see what can be done on a "weak" system with incredible programming. The point is, you can NOT judge the systems by specs and marketing alone. The ultimate, BEST way to judge a system is simple...find a game that looks interesting, stick it in that box, and play it til your hands hurt. Then you can decide if the system sucks or not. Just remember what I said...the best hardware in the world can be turned into useless silicon by horribly bad programming...the worst system in the world can do AMAZING things with programming taken to the right level. Just keep an open mind and keep the flaming at bay until we can get our hands on these machines. And some games.

7514.8.2005 17:53

I agree with all of that and more. all of us should just have a normal and calm discussion about all 3 new systems and talk about their weaknesses and their strengths but not by dissing every1 or their systems. SO WATS UR E_MAIL AGAIN??? TTYL

7614.8.2005 18:04

I prefer not to make my email address public. But I will respond to anything here. I'm definitely up for a discussion as I think the next gen systems have serious potential. I will make one thing clear though, my personal opinion is that of the 3 systems, the Revolution will be the easiest to develop for...AT FIRST. This is because the game developers are going to find it VERY difficult to program for a multi-core architecture. The first gen games will only use single core programming. That'll give us a bump up from what we have now, but, it'll take a while before we get the (sorry for this) revolutionary. They're going to need to develop tools and tricks for dealing with multi-core architecture. There's one more thing that I think needs to be said that'll probably piss off a lot of people. The XBox 360 and PS3 are MUCH closer hardware wise than they are different. CELL is just an advanced PowerPC based cpu. The XBox 360 uses a multi-core PowerPC architecture. XBox 360 uses an ATI graphics architecture. PS3 uses NVidia. Game developers are already familiar with dealing with that in their games from the PC. The gaming experience is going to be closer on PS3 and XBox 360 than ever before. Opinions?

7714.8.2005 19:13

Yes i have an opinion. when u said that the 360 and PS3 were much closer in hardware wise then we would think, then y does M$/Xbox/360 always have better launch games and better games for that matter then PS3. Wouldnt u give the edge to Xbox, or is there sumthin about PS3 that we dont know about that will be 100% better than 360???

7814.8.2005 20:39

matter of fact the ps3 is going to be twice as powewrful as the 360. we all know the hardeware is top of the line. except the ps3 will use blue ray dvd for its games. blue ray holds twice the info as a dual layer dvd. appx. 16 gigs. correct me if im wrong. like samurai said "its all in the programming" if a blue ray is taken to the max and the cell proccessor is used to its full potential then in theory the games for ps3 should be twice the game. bigger games, longer games, potentialy better graphics.........blah blah blah. u get the idea. i for one will purchase both systems when i can afford them. 360 first. it is superior in the way of playing live. plus im already a subscriber. my gammer tag is izycrazy. hit me up if u see me

7915.8.2005 3:20

If any of you fools actually ever looked at the info out there you'd know microsoft has a deal with toshiba to put HD-DVD drives in the later versions of the consoles. Why later? Coz right now the read speed for blu-ray and HD-DVD is pathetic. a dual layer DVD, DVD-9, can be read at 8x on a low cost dvd player. Gaming needs fast data transfer to ensure we get the high standards of graphics and loading times etc to keep us happy. Also how many development studios has anyone ever heard of that complain about needing more storage space for their games? Even the top spec PC games don't use more than 3/4GB of data. To say a bigger disc space will make a bigger game is very thoughtless. More space will mean good programmers can really shine but also lazy programming will become a major problem again. Rather than have to refine their code to squeeze onto a 700MB cd programmers will have all the space they can dream of which will encourage lazy programming. Sony are only putting blu-ray into PS3 because they are trying to force blu-ray (sony's invention) to become the dominant High Definition media. Sony and Phillips are having a format war between blu-ray and HD-DVD. The drive being in PS3 is just a pawn in that war.

8015.8.2005 3:25

Of course the best hardware in the world won't make a shit game great. All it will do is make it load fast and look good. PS3 will be awkward to program for. Sony are building a developer nsupport network similar to M$ XNA support. M$ had this support network fo XBox and it helped small design houses make some great games. Xbox 360 is gonna be like xbox - a good pc in a box. Thats good as it will be easy to develop for. As long as developers are encouraged to push innovation of the hardware over profits all 3 platforms should turn out some fantastic games. We're lucky to be experiencing this. Just think about your grandad playing kick the can or whatever. We're gonna get some brilliant HD games in an onling capacity. The possibilities are endless

8115.8.2005 7:48

M$ has great developer support which includes very good tools that are used to develop games. The partnerships M$ and Sony make are VERY important to launch titles. I haven't seen what Sony's launch titles will be so I can't comment on how they will compare to M$. So even though the hardware is similar and will be easier for developers to cross release games(a LOT easier than current consoles!), we don't know what Sony has up their sleeves yet. Especially if they delay the launch for a whole year. I know what games I want immediately for XBox 360 and I think their lineup is pretty good from what I can see. Definitely for me I want Tiger Woods 2006, Quake 4, the new NFS game, and probably DOA4. I may not get them all at once, but, that's what I'd like to have for now. I'm hoping the PS3 has a new Tekken game at launch. Anyone have any info on PS3 launch titles? I still maintain that the graphics quality will be very similar between the systems. We shall see, though.

8215.8.2005 9:56

M$ has great developer support which includes very good tools that are used to develop games. The partnerships M$ and Sony make are VERY important to launch titles. I haven't seen what Sony's launch titles will be so I can't comment on how they will compare to M$. So even though the hardware is similar and will be easier for developers to cross release games(a LOT easier than current consoles!), we don't know what Sony has up their sleeves yet. Especially if they delay the launch for a whole year. I know what games I want immediately for XBox 360 and I think their lineup is pretty good from what I can see. Definitely for me I want Tiger Woods 2006, Quake 4, the new NFS game, and probably DOA4. I may not get them all at once, but, that's what I'd like to have for now. I'm hoping the PS3 has a new Tekken game at launch. Anyone have any info on PS3 launch titles? I still maintain that the graphics quality will be very similar between the systems. We shall see, though. There are few announced launch titles but there is talk of Metal Gear being a launch title and Sony should have a strong lineup - the killzone media exposure makes it a surefire candidate for a launch title. Like you say the graphics should be similar. It appears that both machines are geared towards producing excellent graphics without minimal effort from the developers. The XNA support and Sony's equivalent support will allow developers to concentrate on engines, storyline and innovation rather than spend 60% - 70% programming time on graphics - rendering etc. Having the hardware automatically take care that side of development will allow developers - if are keen to innovate - to concentrate on the important part of programming - making a thoroughly enjoyable game. This topic is drifting from the price side though. M$ will charge as much as they can get away with. It is likely to be around $300 but it will probably be 300 in england. Once again the europeans will get shafted on cost.

8315.8.2005 14:59

A CUM GUSH??? snicker akumagash if u would read what i wrote previously (pay attention to detail) u would have understood when i said that "IF a blue ray is taken to the max and the cell proccessor is used to its full potential then in THEORY the games for ps3 should be twice the game. bigger games, longer games, POTENTIALY better graphics." dont be so pesemistic, and dont be so quick to call somebody a fool. just correct them if theyre wrong

8415.8.2005 15:00

shmuck

8516.8.2005 3:45

shmuck? Original. Man you Americans always drop off in an argument. Its unlikely that any developers will utilise the possibilities of such large a storage medium and the Cell processor is already being toned down - one of the cores of the multi core architecture will not be activated in shipped PS3's. Developers are going to find it hard to program for multi core processors. If anything the massive data space might encourage laxy programming. Where developers used to have to fine tune their code to ensure they could squeeze everything in no they can be very lazy. Also we will still get the EA games generic releases across platforms etc. Publishers like that are still only going to be interested in the profit line. I just hope developers like Lionhead studios are able to keep challenging us and pushing innovation in the industry.

8616.8.2005 4:09

Not ALL Americans are close minded. :) I would agree that more space tends to encourage bad programming practices. When under the gun to get a game out, it's far too easy to rely on the hardware to get you out of a bind. I personally don't tend to code like that as it drives me nuts, but, a lot of programmers do. And I think you're also right about the "lowest common denominator" factor. Write the game to the least powerful system and port it. WHY they can't write it to the MOST powerful system, especially when you have two similar architectures this time, and then port it to the least powerful systems I'll never know. I do understand why...I just don't like it. It comes down to money and how much effort you put into a game. This is why some of the exclusive titles end up being the best games out there...they can concentrate on one machine and push it as far as they can make it go. They don't have to worry about the "oh God, will this work on xxx console?!" factor. I suspect that for the first generation of games at least, we'll see nothing even CLOSE to what the machines can actually do. And I do believe the exclusive titles will offer the best examples of pushing the hardware on all 3 systems. That's why I'd like to own all 3...I want to be able to play the BEST games and I feel those won't be the ones that are ported.

8716.8.2005 5:06

Exactly. There are so many games on xbox that were obviously coded for ps2 and ported in a very lazy manner across to the box. Games like Ea's 007 with a complete absence of decent lighting, bump mapping etc which are standard on some of the worst xbox only titles. I am excited by what I've seen so far of all the new platforms and it will definitely take time for any of them to have their full potential tapped by developers and I very much doubt we will ever see a multi platform release which pushes each system to its own limits. As the video game industry begins to eclipse the movie industry in terms of profits and commercial opportunity we will see more and more of these crap games. I live in Liverpool, UK near (now dead) Rage Studios, Bizarre creations and Eidos and I know programmers who worked @ RAge who were given 6 month deadlines from storyboard to finished product. Rome wasn't built in a day and I hope we have more developers for the next three platforms that will tell their publishers "its ready when its ready".

8816.8.2005 19:00

I work for a EB games in NY, and this is my philosophy Personally i like xbox better than ps2, the games which are first party devoted are much more quality games than the ps2 exclusives. that being said...given if the ps3 CAN deliever the BOGUS footage @ E3 (which was ALL tech demos i guarantee you), then I would have to give the graphics edge to Playstation Again, however, i have to favor Xbox. For one the extra memory and 3 seperate cores, which will allow for better gameplay innovations down the road, seems to be the better option. We do not play GRAPHICS, we play GAMEPLAY (AI, Physic options, destructable environments, and such). Also dont believe any of the Hype for the ps3 or the non-hype of the xbox 360 that i see online for the "playstation generation" - that's DONE as of NOVEMBER 16TH (Which i predict will be the release date of the 360..i'll get back to this in a minute...). Many people were worried about HALO originally and its graphics/framerate...and look how that turned out... probably the best fps to ever grace any console, and definitely the best selling one ever. So HONESTLY, we will not know which console is better I guarantee you until about 2007-2008, when developers figure out how to use each consoles pluses and minuses to their advantage. But I do believe the 360 will be the winner in terms of overall options, gameplay, and exclulsive games. Now, back to the important issue, the 360's RELEASE DATE..... My Prediction.... NOVEMBER 16TH, 2005. a few reasons... 1. xbox "1" was november 15th, 2001, almost 4 years to the day 2. Definitely will be before "black friday"...the day after thanksgiving which starts the holiday shopping season (for those of you not in retail - which sucks) 3. recently, i noticed something on our reservation list. Most of the games were slated for November 2nd...probably a generic date like a TBD. BUT recently I noticed that 3 games (ironically ALL EA games (BAH EA MONOPLY!!)), changed their date to the 16th of November. These games also had been confirmed as LAUNCH DAY titles by EA. SO I BELIEVE NOVEMBER 16TH IS THE DATE XBOX NATION HAS BEEN WAITING FOR. Peace

8917.8.2005 1:47

16/11 makes sense. I agree with the tech demos for ps3 too. I couldn't believe how many people said killzone2 was ingame footage. Some people just don't have two brain cells to rub together. I still think the PS3 has a hardware advantage over 360 but I don't think its as significant a gap as the one we saw between the xbox and PS2. Again any hardware advantage has to be capitalised on by programmers for it to be an actual advantage. Is the release going to be universal or will it be staggered for europe etc. Will you lot get it first, like everything else, or will it be a global launch? I know this isn't the right forum but on a graphics note has anyone seen the PS3 tech demo for 'the getaway'? This absolutely blew my mind. Its a living breathing LOndon, piccadily circus to be exact, and having lived there for four years at the end of the 90's I can tell you that it was a near perfect reproduction. Now I know its just a tech demo but if the PS3 can produce that kind of photo realism we are all in for some fun. I think a lot of people are going to be underestimating how powerful all of the next gens are going to be and how much better are games are going to look and feel. Now can they just make decent storylines and stop reproducing NFL 20XX and so on.

9017.8.2005 8:40

i'm in uk and just got email from Game as they are now taking preorders. it doesn't confirm release date only advises November but it does confirm that there will be two xbox 360's available at launch. one without harddrive and comes with a wireless controll for GBP209.99 or package with harddrive, one wireless controller, live headset and multi function remote for GBP279.99. games are available to preorder also with no release date at GBP44.99. pretty much what i expected but i hoped the package with hard drive would be about GBP250. probably still release in US for USD299 as UK gets ripped off everytime. only good thing is we are getting the console round about same time as US but in very small numbers!

9117.8.2005 8:43

sorry play.com, offering preorder two at GBP279.99 and games are only GBP39.99. it also claims xbox360 out on 29th November in UK.

9217.8.2005 8:44

The console pricing in the U.S. is $299.99 for the non-hard drive version with wired controller. $399.99 will get a 20 gig hard drive with videos, music, and other non-disclosed stuff, a wireless controller, a headset, and for a limited time, a remote control. The hard drive alone is $100. The controller is $50. The headset is $20. I'm not sure about the remote. I'll be getting the $399.99 package as I want backwards compatibility. (Not possible without the hard drive!!!)

9317.8.2005 12:56

holy crap guys, haha.......im just sitting here reading everyones comments trying to figure out facts and shit about the systems, and some people just want to get pissed off and argue. like that one guy said, its basically all opinion when it comes to the differences because (according to him) theyre all pretty much the same, well the 360 and ps3. but fuck....just imagine if we had to play atari and regular nintendo, we should be praising how far the systems have come over the years, not shitting on companies for doing there best for the people, i wouldnt know how the hell to make a video game system, and im sure as hell all the guys that wanna judge dont have MUCH of a clue either. This isnt supposed to piss anyone off so please dont retaliate with some smug remark.anyway, im going with microsoft anyway, been a fan eversince 01, and im not gonna change now, although, we'll see whats in store. one thing i seemed to nitice of the two systems xbox and ps2 is that the landscapes in the xbox games seemed alot bigger and open, in ps2 games there seems to be alot of inside gameplay, maybe this is cuz programming or whatever but. thats just what i saw from experience. slater all

9417.8.2005 13:40

I dont know wat u people r talkin about but the 360 system actually comes with the system, wireless controller, and a 20 gig hard drive all in the same box when we get it. I dont know where u people get that the system comes with no hardrive or a wied controller, its all included in the system. JUST GET THE AUGUST EDITION OF THE XBOX MAGAZINE. IT TELLS U EVERYTHING ABOUT WHATS IN THE BOX WHEN U GET IT AND ALL ABOUT THE SYSTEM. CHECK IT OUT

9517.8.2005 13:45

Jason, calm down. MS released the information we're all talking about this morning in Germany. This is a fact. There will be *2* version of the console with MS leaning heavily in favor of the $399.99 one(i.e. there will be more of those boxes on the shelves than the $299.99 version). This information is posted all over the web and even CNN ran a story on it this morning. The $299.99 version will NOT have a wireless controller, hard drive, or a head set. It will also come with standard AV cables. The $399.99 version supposedly will come with a hard drive loaded with content, a wireless controller, headset, and for a while, a free remote. It will also have a component cable apparently. This is from reports we got from MS this morning. Whatever magazine you read didn't apparently have all the info when they published it.

9617.8.2005 15:20

ok thank u. But that is really a stupid idea dont u think. I mean why dont they put in a wireless controller and a 20 gig hard drive w/ the system for 359.99. or maybe thats just for people in Germany. And heres another question. WOULD SOMEONE please send me the xbox 360's final hardware product because ive seen close to several different kinds of xbox 360 systems and id like to know what the final piece of hardware will look like . PLEASE

9717.8.2005 15:25

I hope no one minds that I post a link to an external site, but: http://www.dvhardware.net/article6456.html That should give you more info and they have a small pic of the console. I would surmise that the reason you've seen several different looking pics is because of the ability to change the faceplate. I THINK the premium xbox 360 package comes with a different faceplate than the xbox 360 core but I'm not positive.

9817.8.2005 15:34

thank u. But i still have another question. I was reading that in the Premium ( 399.99 ) package that it comes with the HD_AV cable. Will that still work with my ordinary 27" normal tv. or do i have to get an HD TV or just get the crappy 299.99 package???

9917.8.2005 15:37

I have to assume that they either include the standard av cable or the hd cable has standard connections in addition to the composite connections. In the WORSE case scenario you'd have to buy a standard av cable. They are by no means suggesting the premium is ONLY HD...just that it includes the HD cable.

10017.8.2005 15:49

Heres another question. Why would people say that the system and wireless controller and 20 gig hdd was all included at a launch price of 299.99? & then today have M$ say that it will be 399.99 with an extra remote and that in the 299.99 package that there wont be a wireless controller. WAZZUP M$ ASS, BUT STILL GO M$!!!!!!!

10117.8.2005 15:52

It proves the point of speculating before official info is out. :) Until MS *OFFICIALLY* says what's included, people, mages, websites, etc can guess and speculate all they want, but, they COULD be wrong. And in this case, they were. That's why I caution people about judging systems before they're actually available because the info out there just isn't always accurate.

10217.8.2005 16:01

Well at least its been confirmed right Now. I just got an e-mail from official xbox magazine and they told me yes it is true. 399.99 package will give u the ultimate experience with the system, 20 gig hdd, wireless controller,universal remote and an xbox LIVE headset w/ the Silver membership for Xbox Live. & the 299.99 will come with the system, a wired or wireless controller ( now i guess they may make all the systems come with a wireless controller ) and thats about it. & as far as how the system will look. Ur right. It will look like the system that we've seen a million times before ( Sleek, Stylish, Silver ) , but if u have the september issue of oxm they give u a different picture of the 360, but that is for game developers. The difference was that they added an extra cool-heating fan were the hdd is to allow game dev. to take better screenshots and images via. having a 100gig hdd instead of the smaller ones that all of us will be getting. If u would like me to ask Xbox/M$ any questions about 360. then please feel free to tell me wat ur q is and ill ask them with having the response at least 24hrs. after giving me the question THANK U

10317.8.2005 21:50

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!! I Just found out that over here in Canada, The Xbox 360 Premium pack is $500 BUCKS. JESUS CHRIST. I Dont know what J Allard is trying to pull, but he wont be getting that many people buying the 360 up here with that Price ( Except for me cause im like the hardcorest fan over here ) , but all i can afford is the system & accessories. I Guess ill just have to play Xbox 1 games until Christmas. IT BETTER BE BACKWARDS COMP. WITH THAT 20GIG HARD DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10418.8.2005 16:39

by the by i looked today at an e-mail again in my company regarding the 360 pricing and so forth and it said... MICROSOFT HAS CONFIRMED A RELEASE FOR THE 360 THE WEEK OF NOVEMBER 14TH WITH A SPECIFIC DATE FORTHCOMING sooo my prediction that the 16TH is teh date will probably be just about dead on WOOHOO!!!

10519.8.2005 10:10
tig121
Inactive

I had a mail from simplygames.com saying you can pre-order the 360 in the UK for 209 which is pretty cool :)

10619.8.2005 15:23

Hey brh51280. Ur assumption that 360 coming out on Nov. 16th is good'n'all, but why not say it will come out on the 15th. Reasons Why: 1. It would be 4 years since Xbox 1 came out on the exact date ( Nov.15th, 2001) 2. It would be out half the days of November and be 1 month and 10 days till Christmas 3. U'd think they wouldnt hold it pass December 1st, and most certainly not 2 weeks to the end of Nov. But In any case, ya either the 15th or 16th it'll come out. So im guessing 15th, ur guessing 16th. ANY1 else have a date they think might be correct??? (Keeping in mind that it is the week of the 14th-18th)

10726.8.2005 9:07

M$ are ripping us all off again. 279 for 360 power pack or whatever???? Just like the original xbox which was 299 (plus 20 for a f%$*&ing remote to watch dvd's when the capacity was already their) they start with a massive price so they can drop it at xmas then drop it again when PS3 is out and still have a decent price to recoup their losses. Unfortunately I am hardcore and fortunately I can afford it as well as all the release games etc but I think its unfair of M$ to put people in this position. How many people are toying with the idea of buying it? Its a great machine but is it worth that much of your hard earned cash?? I wonder how many parents are being blackmailed by their kids right now to make sure they can get it on release day. M$ knows it can charge what it wants for the 360 because enough people will pay and the benefit of releasing your machine first is that you can start off with a stupidly high price and lower it when your competition comes out which in turn forces the competition to take a bigger loss on their console as they compete with yours. Typical M$ - money grabbing pieces of turd. Unfortunately they're damn good at it and they've made a machine which will be bought at any price

10826.8.2005 13:43

hey man, i'd do it if i could. wouldnt you? sounds like a good marketing scheme to me. haha


THISISME

10926.8.2005 15:03

yeah brilliant. Just reminding you what its all about

11027.8.2005 8:25

Yeah. So, NO ONE has answered my question yet. So, here it is again : Now that the Next-gen systems are all out for everyone to see, hear, and talk about. Which system do u guys think will win the next-gen race and why?? Thank you to those of you who have already answered, thank you. For those who havent, please feel free to answer it if you'd like on this archive please ( Xbox 360 Release Date and Price Leaked ). Its a survey im taking for my Video Game Store on which system people will most likely like and/or buy. Thank You

11127.8.2005 9:18

Well the Xbox will have a pretty big lead on all the other systems so I'd say it will be the Xbox that will take the top because it came out first just like the PS2 did so many years ago even though the PS3 might have better graphics. and about canadian money the canadian dollar equivalent to the US is $1.25 canada to 1.00 US so $500 in canada is about right.

11227.8.2005 18:18

Yeah i guess its about right. ( A 400 dollar product in US, will be about 500 dollars canadian ), but i hate it because we always have to pay more when these new systems come out. But we have a deal of our own, that beats the shit out of the 1 that you'd get anywhere else. You get the Premium Ed. of xbox 360 ( System, wireless cont., 20gig hdd, remote, headseat and an enthernet cable) plus this: another wireless controller, a play-&-charge kit, a rechargable battery pack, 1 of 3 new faceplates ( that will be available at launch ) and 4 games of your choice for 699.92 CDN. And for those of you who are getting the xbox 360 at launch here are a list of some of the many games you'd enjoy for the launch : 1. Full Auto 2. Perfect Dark Zero 3. Call of Duty 2 4. Tom Clancys Ghost Recon 3 5. PGR 3 6. Elder Scrolls 4 : Oblivion There you go. Probably the top 6 best-sellers for launch games, but then again thats just my prediction.

11330.10.2005 15:32
mailhead6
Inactive

anyone plat runescape------mailhead5

11430.10.2005 15:56

its $299 for the original and 399 for all the extra stuff over here and the date here is november 25.. thats what the guy said.. at EBX



11530.10.2005 15:57

Date for us in the US is November 22.

11631.10.2005 12:30
Risen
Inactive

I love the fact that people bitch about the many things of the gaming world but I say they're all good in the gaming bis. but for all that I know Billy "Head Honchoe" At MS is a cheating bitch he didn't finish high school he stole things from Mac (I think) and he beats down the compition with his mighty power (that he used to make the "360" "thanks to the big man up stairs")... Just so he can first knock out the PS then knock out the Nintendo so hence the reason why me the little fps loving 17 year old $70 pay check earning teen I am I'm buying the 360 so Little man me want get squashed by Big I'm own top of the world man him!!!!

11731.10.2005 12:34
Risen
Inactive

Besides haven't u seen the Simpsons where Bill Gates "Buys out" Homers company? That Is exactly what I think will happen!!

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