AfterDawn: Tech news

National Geographic Presents goes Blu-ray exclusive

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 02 Feb 2008 16:33 User comments (58)

National Geographic Presents goes Blu-ray exclusive It seems that Warner's decision to go Blu-ray exclusive has swayed another one of its distribution partners to follow in its footsteps with National Geographic Presents confirming today that it will also drop HD DVD and move exclusively to Blu-ray.
National Geographic Presents, which is distributed under the wider Warner umbrella alongside New Line Home Entertainment, HBO Home Video and BBC Home Video has been format neutral so far, but has only released one film in both formats.

The company has said it will not be releasing a press release but has confirmed all reports that it will be dropping HD DVD. The move will go into effect beginning in April with the release of "Sharkwater."


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58 user comments

12.2.2008 16:46
nobrainer
Inactive

Ah well another Blu-Ray only title that i will never purchase!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Feb 2008 @ 16:47

22.2.2008 17:11

I agree. Do we really care?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Feb 2008 @ 17:11

My opinions come with no warranty whatsoever, but are totally open-source, so you can reverse engineer or decompile them as you see fit. All other rights reserved.

"Freedom" in the west consists of: Freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and freedom of movement. So why is it then, that people want to know what youre saying, what you think of them and where you are going?

32.2.2008 17:34
SamNz
Inactive

its a pin in the hddvd coffin lol it anit doing F**k all

42.2.2008 18:26

As a fan of National Geographic this is very good news to hear.I see the switch to BD media is pretty much the focus.Also i see TDK has stop making HD-DVD media & made there focus on BD also.

Another bites the dust! TDK no longer making blank HD DVDs, and more

Quote:
TDK are one of the biggest brands of writable media and this is a severe blow to HD DVD
http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-106826.aspx

52.2.2008 19:17

Quote:
As a fan of National Geographic this is very good news to hear.I see the switch to BD media is pretty much the focus.Also i see TDK has stop making HD-DVD media & made there focus on BD also.

Another bites the dust! TDK no longer making blank HD DVDs, and more

Quote:
TDK are one of the biggest brands of writable media and this is a severe blow to HD DVD
http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-106826.aspx


That was one of the last pins to the HD-DVD coffin.
After Warner that was a huge blow.

62.2.2008 20:18

Another blow to HD-DVD

72.2.2008 21:28

can somebody just yank the plug on HD-DVD please that would save a lot of typing lol.

82.2.2008 22:13

Apparently someone keeps forcing everyone to make redundant comments on HD-DVD articles, is that it?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Feb 2008 @ 22:15

92.2.2008 22:42

Just make "SHIFT F1" = (goes Blu-Ray Exclusive) as a short cut would same some typing time. I dont get tired of seeing it. Keep the News comming.

I would guess that BBC will do the same soon?.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Feb 2008 @ 22:47

103.2.2008 1:25

Really I could care less if they went one way or the other.

I won't purchase either HD DVD or Blu-Ray for multiple reasons, sure I like HD content but I don't see a reason to purchase either format.

Peace

113.2.2008 4:53
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
Really I could care less if they went one way or the other.

I won't purchase either HD DVD or Blu-Ray for multiple reasons, sure I like HD content but I don't see a reason to purchase either format.

Peace
I am completly with you there, upscaling dvd's are great at less than half the price and when up-scaled on a normal HD screen (40" or below) at ten feet its certainly not worth the cost of upgrading all your equipment because of the HI-DEF, HDMI DRM HDCP and i certainly, will never own a DRM-Ray player and will advise everyone i know not to purchase one either.

Until a none anti consumer, crippled by DRM media player is released i am sticking to DVD's or media from my pc, until the MPAA decide to only release to DRM-Ray to force everyone to downgrade to their crippled hardware, then i will only purchase second hand or commit copy write infringement when second hand media is stopped by big media locking it to one person, which is what is coming soon if the MPAA/RIAA get their way with their none transferable licences.

123.2.2008 5:50

Quote:
Until a none anti consumer, crippled by DRM media player is released
You,ll be waitin awhile for that...

133.2.2008 7:53
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by Sudds:
Originally posted by nobrainer:
Until a none anti consumer, crippled by DRM media player is released
You,ll be waitin awhile for that...
not really if they want to make us all jump through hoops and make all current equipment inoperable as there have been Hi-Def screens around for a long time now but the MPAA DRM body has chosen to block these screens to the new media because of HDMI HDCP DRM, ppl will do exactly what has happened with mp3's and i will join them @ http://thepiratebay.org/ because the product is better and more consumer friendly as the DRM has been stripped out.

if you can get a format you can use on all equipment without restrictions or reduced quality or the current situation of a blank screen on that Hi-Def screen you purchased last year for £2000, for having a none HDCP Hi-Def screen, ppl will choose it, so by sony and the mpaa DRM advocates (sony, fox, disney) choosing DRM-Ray over the more consumer friendly hardware it has just pushed up p2p usage 10fold.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2008 @ 8:34

143.2.2008 9:15

high five

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Feb 2008 @ 2:54

153.2.2008 9:55

Hey nobrainer, check here...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134227

You will probably need this in the near future! :-P


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

163.2.2008 10:08
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Hey nobrainer, check here...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134227

You will probably need this in the near future! :-P
i don't own a hd-dvd or drm-ray player as there is little point as it means new av equipment and a new screen because of the HDMI DRM called HDCP, connections that are not crippled enough by DRM are blocked all together, and then you have to purchase the player itself, and the movies cost two to three times the cost of a dvd. i will stick to my thx system with up-scaling dvd's and pc hookup thankx.

btw once the DRM is stripped from both drm-ray and hd-dvd you can simply stream them in full HD to any screen direct from your pc! or burn them to dvd as HD-WMV files, its very easy process bypassing the DRM but its against the law as time shifting is not allowed because they want you to purchase the same title over and over again as new media sucks. here is what the mpaa thinks about time shifting!

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Originally posted by Prof. Peter Gutmann above link:
In July 2006, Cory Doctorow published an analysis of the anti-competitive nature of Apple's iTunes copy-restriction system that looked at the benefits of restrictive DRM for the company that controls it. The only reason I can imagine why Microsoft would put its programmers, device vendors, third-party developers, and ultimately its customers, through this much pain is because once this copy protection is entrenched, Microsoft will completely own the distribution channel. In the same way that Apple has managed to acquire a monopolistic lock-in on their music distribution channel (an example being the Motorola ROKR fiasco, which was so crippled by restrictions that a Fortune magazine senior editor reviewed it as the STNKER), so Microsoft will totally control the premium-content distribution channel. In fact examples of this Windows content lock-in are already becoming apparent as people move to Vista and find that their legally-purchased content won't play any more under Vista (the example given in the link is particularly scary because the content actually includes a self-destruct after which it won't play any more, so not only do you need to re-purchase your content when you switch from XP to Vista, but you also need to re-purchase it periodically when it expires. In addition since the media rights can't be backed up, if you experience a disk crash you get another opportunity to re-purchase the content all over again. This is by design: as Jack Valenti, former head of the MPAA, put it, “If you buy a DVD you have a copy. If you want a backup copy you buy another one”). It's obvious why this type of business model makes the pain of pushing content protection onto consumers so worthwhile for Microsoft since it practically constitutes a license to print money.
and the MPAA say thank you to all who have brought into our new DRM hardware of blu-ray and the DRM, BD+, that will include phone home authorisation and the ability to block a single title by its unique identifier! or lock it to a single device or account. just as sony are doing with psn purchased games, no right to transfer is going to become the norm. i hate to quote harry enfield but "if that's what you want, that's what'll happen" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIJIGqckpvE
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2008 @ 10:54

173.2.2008 11:02

Nobrainer, it was meant to be funny! Lighten up... :-D

You don't even own a high def player, yet you post all through the blu-ray/HD-DVD threads... Now that doesn't make sense to me.

You are really taking this DRM thing too far. It's not like they have cameras installed in your house, or a chip in your arm. I agree that Apple made a mistake with their DRM downloads and even they have rectified that now. However, blu-ray isn't anywhere near as bad as you make it sound. If you have a genuine blu-ray disc, you will have no problem playing it across various platforms (stand alones, PC media players, PS3 etc.)

If you want to make back-ups... Well there are already ways around the whole DRM scheme. I have already spent much time playing with these applications with some great results.

So what is really the problem here? The idea of what they could do with DRM... Well, that is called paranoia... Or what they are actually doing? That my friend is called winning the format war, and that is reality!


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

183.2.2008 11:12
nobrainer
Inactive

@ Ryu77

i've messed about with a blu-ray and hd-dvd stand alone's and would have purchased a hd-dvd player but its pointless now as imho, hd-dvd is dead in the water since the mpaa pulled ranks and choose drm-ray.

the drm was forced on m$ by the MPAA utalising the DMCA and will allow them to become the next monopoly as apple tried with aac but apple gave everyone a way to circumvent the drm by including a feature to burn to disc without the drm but the mpaa will not let this happen. what is bad is the way its heading, towards 1 licence per user per piece of hardware and if ppl don't wake up they will achieve their goal.

know your limits! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwNGU&feature=related

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2008 @ 11:20

193.2.2008 15:27

I have to agree with nobrainer about the DRM thing, although not in quite as paranoid fashion.

A few years ago M$ and 1ntel (Together with a few others) were touting an idea about a "Trusted computing platform" (TCPA), which was an idea meant to reduce piracy. Basically it consisted of the "Fritz" chip (Eventually to be embedded into major CPUs) and a (Probably M$) Operating System (Then codenamed Palladium). These two components would work together in order to block any "Unsigned" code from operating (basically any software that the TCPA based companies didn't want you to use. Could you imagine what would have happened to the Open-Source community if it ever came to fruition? How much can TCPA be compared to the current DRM systems in use today? I'd say quite a lot.

The point that I'm making here is that any DRM type system is open to abuse for anti-competitive purposes. At the moment we're reasonably protected by various competition rights laws, but what happens if or when that's no longer the case? What's to stop the DRM owners from invoking the DRM and blocking content that either they don't want you to watch, or indeed holding the consumer to "ransom"?

Because of the complexity and proprietary secrecy surrounding the DRM systems used in these new technologies, we're never really going to know how far the rights owners will be able to go with restrictions until it actually happens, which by then might be too late. That alone is enough to encourage the paranoia.

Open sourced software has helped the computing industry immensely, in just the same way as the independent film makers are breaking new ground in creative cinema. The large corporations (As much as they do their part sometimes in lowering prices through competition with other large corporations) are stifling the cutting edge material offered by the small independents in order to fulfil their quest for huge profits in order to keep the shareholders happy.

I've been a user of both HD formats in the last few months, but I have to agree with nobrainer about the upscaled SD DVD picture being pretty comparable. I use a large 42" screen and the picture quality with upscaled material is excellent. I now have my doubts as to whether I'll be buying any more HD discs for a while.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2008 @ 15:32

My opinions come with no warranty whatsoever, but are totally open-source, so you can reverse engineer or decompile them as you see fit. All other rights reserved.

"Freedom" in the west consists of: Freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and freedom of movement. So why is it then, that people want to know what youre saying, what you think of them and where you are going?

203.2.2008 18:40

iamgq,

One more retarded post like that and you're gone.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2008 @ 18:41



My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

214.2.2008 5:35

Hopefully BluRay will take over HDDVD soon. (I only want Blu-ray to win because HD DVD is microsoft backed. And if it wins, it will only add to MS's empire of DRM, and shitty licenses). Yes I know, BR is backed by Sony, but do I care? No... well____________ yes I do.

224.2.2008 5:37

Originally posted by iamgq:
high five
Originally posted by neph:
iamgq,

One more retarded post like that and you're gone.
Your right, that was retarded, was you trying to pull off a Bhorat or something iamgq?

234.2.2008 5:56
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by BluRay:
Hopefully BluRay will take over HDDVD soon. (I only want Blu-ray to win because HD DVD is microsoft backed. And if it wins, it will only add to MS's empire of DRM, and shitty licenses). Yes I know, BR is backed by Sony, but do I care? No... well____________ yes I do.
HD-DVD has less anti consumer DRM and also does not include the MPAA's global price fixing tool of region coding unlike Blu-Ray.

sony and m$ are both anti consumer, but handing the hardware over to the MPAA, and sony giving studios the ability to run ANY code utilising blu-ray only DRM BD+ is certainly not a good move!

how long before sony pull the plug on another of their anti consumer propertarian lock-ins and get you all to bend over and lube up so you can purchase all the media all over again!?

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/sony-kills-drm-store.html

Originally posted by link:
Sony kills DRM stores -- your DRM music will only last until your next upgrade

Translation: You can continue to "enjoy" "your" music until you get a new PC or a new music player. And really, why would you want a new PC or a new music player ever again? Surely your three-year-old ATRAC player will never be truly obsolete!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Feb 2008 @ 5:58

244.2.2008 6:20

nobrainer.

I think you should be able to tell by my nick, that I am a BluRay and sony fanboi!

:D

I like BluRay because of its amazing potential, without DRM that is ;0


"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever." - Chinese Proverb BluRay.

254.2.2008 15:04

Quote:
Originally posted by iamgq:
high five
Originally posted by neph:
iamgq,

One more retarded post like that and you're gone.
Your right, that was retarded, was you trying to pull off a Bhorat or something iamgq?
No not really, there was another message all Caps, wasnt aware of the "all caps rule" so switched it to a simple high five.

264.2.2008 16:16

I didn't say anything about any all caps messages.

Here's the deal. This is a forum where ideas and opinions are exchanged in the interest of making interesting and informative reading for all. I looked through your post history and found other examples of pointless and annoying one-line responses like the one we see here. Its like a child cutting into an adult conversation to tell everyone "I went poo poo!". Its irritating and it derails otherwise good conversation so knock it off.

274.2.2008 16:55

Originally posted by Nephilim:
I didn't say anything about any all caps messages.

Here's the deal. This is a forum where ideas and opinions are exchanged in the interest of making interesting and informative reading for all. I looked through your post history and found other examples of pointless and annoying one-line responses like the one we see here. Its like a child cutting into an adult conversation to tell everyone "I went poo poo!". Its irritating and it derails otherwise good conversation so knock it off.

Thats cool with me, but why so hostile? All you need to say is to "stop please" and I will. Youre so quick to threatn. Youre so adult why not hadle the situating like one.

284.2.2008 17:58

@nobrainer

I am totally with you on the DRM issue. I disagree with it totally, in that it restricts the rights of the consumer to satisfy the wants of the producer. I agree with capitalism in principle, but like any system, it is open to abuse, and DRM is a prime example of abuse.

Regarding the topic, Nat Geo obviously think that they are the rats deserting the sinking ship that is HD-DVD, but are things really as bad for the "Sinking ship" as these forums seem to convey? I understand that people aren't happy with co-existence between two opposites... The general public NEED a good conflict to keep them happy. Its the way of the world now (The tabloid media is probably to blame for that) and it's how we'll probably be for a while yet. I guess eventually that someone will win this "War". But to have it decided not by the consumer, but by a multi-billion dollar media corporation just bares out what I said about abuse of power and does no favours to those large companies that are supposed to be trying to gain our trust.

Is it really a coincidence that all the major labels switching to Blu-Ray are paid up members of the MPAA? Does the MPAA have a say in what future formats should be? There I go again... Asking more questions. Oh well!

Whatever happened to people power?

@iamgq

You might be advised at this point to quit whilst you're behind.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Feb 2008 @ 18:03

My opinions come with no warranty whatsoever, but are totally open-source, so you can reverse engineer or decompile them as you see fit. All other rights reserved.

"Freedom" in the west consists of: Freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and freedom of movement. So why is it then, that people want to know what youre saying, what you think of them and where you are going?

294.2.2008 18:45

iamgq,

Folks get one pass to back talk and/or argue with me and you just used yours. My point has been made, you understand it so back to the topic.

305.2.2008 5:15

What I am about to say is in no way endorsing DRM. I am simply offering alternate perspective.

1) Do we agree that people all over the World download and copy copyrighted material?

2) Do you feel that companies charge too much for their media?

See, the problem here is that 1 compounds the problem for number 2, then making people feel even more anger towards the media industry which justifies their guilt for downloading/copying illegally. So this leaves the industry with two options to see profits for the future. First is to charge even more! Not a good choice. Second option would be to look for ways to protect their media from being distributed illegally and to offer competitive alternatives such as paid downloads etc.

Like I said I am not endorsing DRM as I myself have used more economical ways to obtain media. ;-)

Put it this way, do we see Bank Robbers saying it's an outrage that video cameras are installed in Banks? Well some might... lol! The truth is that the entertainment industry do have a right to protect their content. Remember this, they are the providers of the content for us to enjoy. At no point do they say that we MUST have their product. It is not needed for our basic survival like food or water. It is a luxury. If you don't like the price or the product, don't buy it!

I prefer to look for ways to deal with a situation rather then complain about them.


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

315.2.2008 8:52

You make valid points Ryu and while its true that none of us have to have the products they sell it still boils down to the fact that the media companies need us to buy their product. If we don't buy their product they don't stay in business. One of the fundamental keys to business is to give consumers what they want and loading your product with hassles and restrictions goes against that principle. Just about every other business in the world spends millions researching exactly what consumers want while the media companies spend millions figuring out ways to piss us off. Making the paying customers pick up the tab for what pirates do is just plain bad business and the DRM tactic hasn't slowed pirates down one bit. Basically I'm saying the media companies need to figure out another way.




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

325.2.2008 9:29

Originally posted by Nephilim:
Basically I'm saying the media companies need to figure out another way.
Originally posted by Ryu77:
So this leaves the industry with two options to see profits for the future. First is to charge even more! Not a good choice. Second option would be to look for ways to protect their media from being distributed illegally and to offer competitive alternatives such as paid downloads etc.
Neph, I 100% agree with you... Basically what I said isn't it. :-D
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Feb 2008 @ 9:46

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

335.2.2008 10:37

Meh companies are all about profit now'a'days. They do not care about the consumer at all anymore, or atleast thats what it feels like. Many brilliant ideas are knocked off or dropped because the executive deems it un-profitable. The way I see it is if you make something, sell it, and it helps someone, but you don't make a profit. Its still worth it, becuase you made it to help people not for profit.

Communism anybody?

Quote:
Originally posted by Nephilim:
I didn't say anything about any all caps messages.

Here's the deal. This is a forum where ideas and opinions are exchanged in the interest of making interesting and informative reading for all. I looked through your post history and found other examples of pointless and annoying one-line responses like the one we see here. Its like a child cutting into an adult conversation to tell everyone "I went poo poo!". Its irritating and it derails otherwise good conversation so knock it off.

Thats cool with me, but why so hostile? All you need to say is to "stop please" and I will. Youre so quick to threatn. Youre so adult why not hadle the situating like one.
Neph. will handle the "situating" like an "adult" when you learn to sPeLl.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Feb 2008 @ 10:41

345.2.2008 10:43

Originally posted by glasssd:
Just make "SHIFT F1" = (goes Blu-Ray Exclusive) as a short cut would same some typing time. I dont get tired of seeing it. Keep the News comming.

I would guess that BBC will do the same soon?.
I doubt the BBC will budge to one side. I think they are going to stay put in the middle. Until one actually dominates the other i.e BluRay smashes the daylights out of HDDVD and vice versa

355.2.2008 13:11

Quote:
Originally posted by glasssd:
Just make "SHIFT F1" = (goes Blu-Ray Exclusive) as a short cut would same some typing time. I dont get tired of seeing it. Keep the News comming.

I would guess that BBC will do the same soon?.
I doubt the BBC will budge to one side. I think they are going to stay put in the middle. Until one actually dominates the other i.e BluRay smashes the daylights out of HDDVD and vice versa
I thought that the BBC used Warner for distributing or was under Warners umbrella. Thanks for the responce.

365.2.2008 13:18

The BBC (The British Broadcasting Corporation) are independant.

According to the BBC Royal Charter and Agreement
"free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners"

Besides I do not think TV License payers of the UK will be happy if the BBC took only one side.

EDIT:You are half right about warner distributing the BBC's releases. The BBC in the UK distribute their releases themselves but in the USA it is done by Warner. But I still doubt the BBC will go one sided even in the USA.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Feb 2008 @ 13:20

375.2.2008 14:10

Originally posted by BluRay:
The BBC (The British Broadcasting Corporation) are independant.

According to the BBC Royal Charter and Agreement
"free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners"

Besides I do not think TV License payers of the UK will be happy if the BBC took only one side.

EDIT:You are half right about warner distributing the BBC's releases. The BBC in the UK distribute their releases themselves but in the USA it is done by Warner. But I still doubt the BBC will go one sided even in the USA.
Thanks again for the information. Living in the States, I dont get to see all of the angles. Since WB will not produce BBC productions anymore, do you think the BBC can get someone else to produce HD-DVD for them or will the UK versions be reigon free for people in the States?

385.2.2008 15:03

@ glasssd

I did not know WB dropped BBC? Anyway why do you need HD for BBC vids, all they are documentries and informational programs.

As far as I know the BBC is sort of relaxed with its DRM.

Also maybe I am not sure but the DVDs are usually region free, anyway this day'n'age does region locking actually matter? A.k.a firmware hacks and stuff.

You could torrent most BBC stuff or watch it on YouTube anyway, I know it sounds silly me telling you this, but I do not think the BBC will follow you up or anything. The BBC is state-owned by the British Government.

395.2.2008 15:24

I was not meaning that WB dropped BBC but with WB dropping HD-DVD, "would anyone produce a HD-DVD product for BBC outside of the UK."

405.2.2008 20:22

Quote:
Basically what I said isn't it. :-D
In so many words, yes :)



My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

415.2.2008 22:57

Neph, I guess what I was trying to say is that if the media companies could offer downloads etc. at a reasonable price but also be guaranteed that people wont give their downloaded copy to friends, family and anyone they feel like etc. they would be more than happy to offer that.

What I am saying is if you think about it from their end. How can they offer downloadable content and protect their content from being distrubuted for free without DRM? If anyone knows the answer I am 100% sure the media companies would love to use this method. I totally agree that DRM cripples the media industry. However, it is a project in work. Let's hope that the future offers better alternatives.


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

426.2.2008 0:55
varnull
Inactive

They should have got with the program years ago.. Trouble is by sticking to totally outmoded business models and then trying to hold on with DRM and other junk they just succeed in alienating the consumer further.

I pay for a TV licence, but.. because I do not PAY microsoft or apple for a commercial product I am excluded from watching any BBC online timeshifted content.

According to the BBC Royal Charter and Agreement
"free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners"

I am a very pissed off BBC customer.. I don't even have a choice not to pay them because I "MIGHT" decide to use a M$ or apple enabled pc on my broadband connection...

That leaves me only one alternative to see a program I have missed at broadcast time.. Yup that's right.. PIRACY. I don't consider it piracy anyway.. I have a tv licence which entitles me to watch BBC tv programs...

The same goes for these disks.. If I pay for one I have bought a licence to access that content in any way I see fit, regardless of what the DCMA may say.. tough titty.. while these businesses continue to use DRM the poor consumer will be forced to find ways to circumvent it. It's a lose lose situation for these greedy bastards, and they deserve our boycott of their products, and our vocal complaints and scorn for attempting to rip us all off.

436.2.2008 2:35

varnull, in that situation I feel you! I agree 100%. I just want to make it clear that I am neither for or against DRM. Ok... Hold up... I will explain better. When companies abuse the DRM and use it to milk consumers. Well, that is totally ridiculous and is a clear sign of corporate greed!

However, I do understand if they simply want to stop people distributing their material for free. As I said earlier, companies do have a right to protect their content but to abuse the system and use it to increase profits... Well, that is where they over step the line. The name itself says it all "Digital Rights Management". We as consumers also have rights, so if they don't respect ours then I don't see any reason why we should respect theirs. However, the way I see it is this chain of thought can only bring about resentment and anguish between the media industry and the consumer.

I would much rather see a situation where both the industry and the consumer can respect each others rights. As I said earlier, I really hope the future sees better alternatives.


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

446.2.2008 3:02
varnull
Inactive

Unfortunately it's too late for them.. They have well and truly become mired in lockout and restriction. Even if we pay them they take our rights away. People will still buy things, but they need to perceive value for money. Realistically how many times are you going to watch a $50 film? 2 or 3 in a year maybe? At that rate you may as well go to the cinema (assuming you live alone) 52 times in a year and see all the new films.

I have dvd's I bought (I'm a bargain bin hunter) years back, and I have maybe watched them 3 or 4 times in total.. I'm not complaining because it was £0.99 well spent, but £25 or so.. forget it.. I have way more important things to pay for than a film that will be bargain bucket in 6 months. It may have totally ecaped these businesses notice, but the HUGE market in pirate dvd's is generally from the cams.. while the film is in the cinema.. obviously people are less bothered about quality than they are about seeing the film.. and maybe deciding if it is worth going watching..
I have only seen one film on cam this year that inspired me to go to the cinema.. surfs up.. and no way would I have gone and paid to see that on spec.. I would have missed out on probably the best film of the year.

So who gained from that scenario?? the media companies.. A lot more than the pirates did in that one individual case.

Why don't the film companies release poor quality versions of their movies to sale as soon as the film hits the cinema? most people are happy watching a 480x320 and mono sound cam.. the media companies could make a killing by making and marketing these things at the same price .. £2.. therefore putting the pirates out of business overnight.

I would pay the same to d/l said thing knowing it will be at least reasonable and watchable as give it to some shady f*** who will give me some dodgy cmc disk with fingermarks all over it with no guarantees..

There we go.. a solution to the cam piracy problem the studios whine on and on and on about constantly.. Not f****** rocket science either.

They need to stop the region coding ripoff too.. that encourages back street copying, because consumers who travel or buy films that are only released in other regions are left very often with no alternative apart from hacking their hardware..

Then we come to the other cause.. Different release dates in different parts of the world.. It's only the huge hollywood so called blockbuster movies that suffer from this syndrome.. I want to buy it now because it has been released in the USA.. I can't buy one off amazon us because it's region coded and no use to me.. so I will download or look for a pirate disk seller who has already done the hard work for me.. related to the paragraph above about region coding, but also an issue in it's own right.

And finally.. we come to the can't pay or won't pay.. Some people here would have us believe that people who happen to be not as financially secure as them shouldn't have things because they can't afford them.. put up and shut up.. unfortunately they drop in with the won't pays and work out how to get it for nothing.. so that argument "I'm alright jack.. you are poor so STFU and do without" doesn't wash. It's that attitude that causes crime, and when on a national scale causes irreconcilable social division between the haves and have nots..

conclusion... we need a total rethink of what, as a species, we want for our future.. because the way we are going there isn't going to be one for any but the super rich at this rate, and the poor and deprived will take them out sooner or later too.

(yeah.. you guessed it.. I'm a modern communist)

Anyway.. that is so far off topic it should be a thread all of it's own..

National Geographic.. customer base..pensioners and schoolkids looking for un-age-restricted pictures of tits etc.. good plan, put your media in a format your customer base can't afford.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Feb 2008 @ 3:17

456.2.2008 5:08

Originally posted by varnull:
the HUGE market in pirate dvd's is generally from the cams.. while the film is in the cinema.. obviously people are less bothered about quality than they are about seeing the film.
Well... I'm not one of those people that are less bothered. I can't stand those low quality cam recorded flicks. They look and sound like crap! Especially on a decent display (Plasma, LCD etc.) and sound system. I never watch them as I feel they totally destroy the experience. For me a big part of the enjoyment is atmosphere. Watching those dodgy cam releases on a decent home theater system, simply delivers nothing!

It seems what you are saying rings true here as most of the people buying these underground releases are the lower/middle class watching them on CRT TV's... Which as I stated earlier is only compounding the issue further.

Do you seriously pay £25 for a new release DVD? No wonder you are a bit p'd off. They are about $25 - $30 (Australian Dollars) here which is about £12... So about half!

Yes, you are right that we are straying quite a bit from topic so I will leave my final thought...

While you make some good points, it seems we have some different views on this matter. To be completely honest, I am happy with the media industry at the moment and with the newer HD formats developing it's an exciting time. I believe the future will bring about change. The consumer demands change so evolution is inevitable!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Feb 2008 @ 5:13

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

466.2.2008 5:25

I agree with some of the points made by varnul.

To be honest it costs the pirates money to buy the DVDs and then to copy them etc.

If the media companies were to release their movies online, not only will it cost them nothing (because they own the content alread) but they will SAVE money on some aspects of marketing, and what better way to distribute a movie than the net? I mean you save on packaging, you save the enviorenment because your not using cheap plastic for your DVD covers, its a win win situation, heads I win tails you lose.

You could release a movie for like £5 (approx $10) and still make a profit out of it, why? Because you saved on all the other material expenses. It makes total sense. And I am sure people will pay to download a movie via BitTorrent, LEGALLY, and whats better they could get killer speeds, I mean how hard will it be for those rich boys to create their own tracker, and have a super server seed?

Back to the HD DVD v Blu-ray issue.

I think maybe Blu-ray has the edge, no because of consumers, but because of its DRM. I think because the DRM is near uncrackable at the moment, most big phat companies will like it better. I bet you thats why WB went towards BR.


"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever." - Chinese Proverb BluRay.

476.2.2008 6:19
varnull
Inactive

Quote:

It seems what you are saying rings true here as most of the people buying these underground releases are the lower/middle class watching them on CRT TV's... Which as I stated earlier is only compounding the issue further.
Well when I can afford £400+ for a nice widescreen lcd or plasma I may get one... Currently I am stuck with a 14 year old recycled tatung 24" crt tv with no sound. I use a recycled sharp stereo amp and charity shop speakers (good ones but still repaired by me) I'm the majority sorry to say, where HD is and will remain a nice dream we can never afford. 60% of UK households live at or below the poverty line, and some like me don't even come close to it. My housing costs have more than doubled in the last 18 months, while my income due to the businesses I work for closing has reduced by around 25%.. add to that a 40% increase in the price of fuel and power over the same period of time and you can see the problems many of us are facing.. We don't have the luxury of new things.. just keeping a roof over our heads is hard enough.

I can't justify what is probably more than my annual disposable income on a tv and disk player.. Viva la pirates!!, because they give us what we want at a price we can afford.

486.2.2008 7:02

varnull, I totally empathise with your situation. I sincerely hope things start to lift for you soon.

BluRay, did you miss the part in two of my posts where I suggested downloadable content? I completely agree with everything you just said.

I really wish some would understand the point I am trying to make. I am sitting on the fence here. I thought I made it clear that I am not endorsing DRM. I am trying to look at it from an open minded business perspective. The only thing I said against varnull's suggestion for downloads was the quality issue but each to their own.

However, this still doesn't solve the media industries issue for preventing mass distribution of their product for free! Without DRM, can you suggest to me a method they could use that once people downloaded the offered content they couldn't give it to anyone they feel like for free?

Again, just to clarify... I don't agree with DRM! I am only stating the right the companies have to prevent THEFT of their product! This is any persons God given right, why should it be any different for the entertainment media industry?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Feb 2008 @ 7:03

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

496.2.2008 9:15

@RYU77 no I did not miss those, I just reinforeced them with my own brilliant views =P :D

@varnul I understand how you feel, having a TV in Britain is hard work, especially because you got to pay a f****** TV license for a channel I dont even f***** watch ffs. F*** da BBC.


"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever." - Chinese Proverb BluRay.

506.2.2008 17:49

Originally posted by varnul:
conclusion... we need a total rethink of what, as a species, we want for our future.. because the way we are going there isn't going to be one for any but the super rich at this rate, and the poor and deprived will take them out sooner or later too.

(yeah.. you guessed it.. I'm a modern communist)

LOL! I am a modern Conservative (Of a sort) and I totally agree with everything you've said upto now! The old capitalist property model doesn't work anymore (If indeed it ever did) and maybe, just maybe, there's a shift in thinking towards a more (Dare I say it?) Liberal approach. However, I fear that barring a global natural disaster, an extra-terrestrial created disaster or a catastrophic nuclear war, we have no real chance of escaping from it completely within our lifetimes.

The real problem is that there is no real alternative to the large media corporations holding us to ransom. We have allowed them to become like this by buying into their ethics in the first place. Now just suppose that there were a large open movement within the media sector (Rather like the Open-source software movement that I bleat on about so much). The concept itself wouldn't be that difficult to design and would surely give some of the power back to the consumers.

5113.2.2008 22:35

Have we missed the raal issue

Sony has tried all kinds of CP only to see them go down in flames
You can bet that they threatened and paid big bucks to get some software off the market.
Sony lost the Batamax - VCR war because they tried to control the market price
They didn’t have the leverage and lost

T o insure Blu-Ray wins
Sony bought up a large portion of the media,
Sony Owns Them and now they say we will only provide HD in Blu- Ray.
If one wants an HD program, Sony will dictate and the buying public will PAYthe Sony price.

Yes, copies are being made by individuals but there a big drop in the bucket compared to those from China and other parts of the world

If you want to see Sony get filthy rich just go with Blu-Ray and pay the price

5214.2.2008 6:29

Anyone else have an educated post? ;-)


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

5314.2.2008 19:28

Some of us are going to need Cliff Notes to all these huge posts if we want to keep up :P

5418.2.2008 6:48

Originally posted by Yet Another Poster:
Have we missed the raal issue
Do you mean "real"? Or is "raal" an actual word?

:D

5518.2.2008 7:35
varnull
Inactive

must be a spammer :lol: http://www.raalribbon.com/aboutus.htm

5618.2.2008 9:30

Originally posted by Dr_West:
Originally posted by Yet Another Poster:
Have we missed the raal issue
Do you mean "real"? Or is "raal" an actual word?

:D
That is why I made my post after his... It was meant to be cheeky! :-P
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Feb 2008 @ 2:40

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

5722.2.2008 19:18

Quote:
The company has said it will not be releasing a press release but has confirmed all reports that it will be dropping HD DVD. The move will go into effect beginning in April with the release of "Sharkwater."
Well at least they did not deny the fact and just said that they are making the switch i guess this is wat i like to see no beating around the bush just being straight from the get go i wonder if other people can take note and follow the footsteps :P

5821.9.2010 13:34
spam
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