AfterDawn: Tech news

No PS3 price cut in Europe, says Reeves

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 22 Aug 2008 15:01 User comments (32)

No PS3 price cut in Europe, says Reeves Sony Computer Entertainment Europe president David Reeves has said in an interview that the company will not be dropping the price of the PlayStation 3 in Europe during 2008, putting any speculation to rest.
"There is no price cut," Reeves said. "We're not going to drop the price this year."

He later explained that software sales were very important to the company, more important so than the price of the hardware.

"Yes, absolutely, and I think it's the games for Nintendo," he said. "I think whatever price they're at, I think it's the games that have really, really driven it.

"We started off at the beginning of the year with GT5 Prologue, then we went to GTA IV, then Metal Gear Solid. There'll be LittleBigPlanet, and then we move onto PES and FIFA and all those.

"We're on rails, and I think that those games are going to drive it,"
he finished.

Earlier in the day SCEE confirmed the pricing of the new 160GB PS3 model in the UK which will sell for GBP 339.99 when it goes on sale October 31.

Previous Next  

32 user comments

122.8.2008 16:53
13thHouR
Inactive

£340

omg are they having a laugh. why purchase a ps3 for the handful of exclusive titles when a 360 cost half the price?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2008 @ 16:54

222.8.2008 16:54

And yet it still outsells the 360 worldwide for the past 7+ months....even during the month the 360 had a price drop on the 20gb model! Handful of exclusives? Fact is Sony has the most exclusives. But on topic I wouldn't doubt as Christmas comes they would drop it by a little (maybe).

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2008 @ 16:56

322.8.2008 17:58

I think he ment to say that the FEW good exclusives that the 360 has, I can play on the PC. So, who needs a 360? The Exclusives that Sony has, can not be played on a PC. How many studios does MS own? 1
How many does Sony own?? A lot.

422.8.2008 18:20

They usually change their minds closer to the holidays, its not like it really needs another price drop atm anyway.

Originally posted by 13thHouR:
£340

omg are they having a laugh. why purchase a ps3 for the handful of exclusive titles when a 360 cost half the price?
If price is more of a concern to you then please by all means go buy a 360 heck buy two, just stop the fanboy crap because no one cares and it's unneeded clutter. Especially when it has little or nothing to do with the article besides the fact that its about the ps3.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2008 @ 18:25

522.8.2008 19:32
13thHouR
Inactive

Originally posted by canuckerz:
They usually change their minds closer to the holidays, its not like it really needs another price drop atm anyway.

Originally posted by 13thHouR:
£340

omg are they having a laugh. why purchase a ps3 for the handful of exclusive titles when a 360 cost half the price?
If price is more of a concern to you then please by all means go buy a 360 heck buy two, just stop the fanboy crap because no one cares and it's unneeded clutter. Especially when it has little or nothing to do with the article besides the fact that its about the ps3.
let me guess your reviews, sony, sony, sony.

with the Fact that there are only a handful of exclusives why would you spend £340 when you can get a games machine with the same graphical ability for half the price, i would say that this is very on topic but obviously you see me attacking the brand you are loyal to.

watch this and open your mind: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA50FBC214A6CE87

622.8.2008 19:43

I'll bite. But this will be it, as I agree with canuckerz ~

Half the price, less than half the abilities & way less reliability...yeah great deal there.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2008 @ 19:46

722.8.2008 20:01
13thHouR
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
I'll bite. But this will be it, as I agree with canuckerz ~

Half the price, less than half the abilities & way less reliability...yeah great deal there.
instead of just defending this brand that you appear to take great pleasure in defending, think from a consumer point of view not a loyal sony consumer...

is there a need for a price cut when other hardware that has exactly the same titles for it sells for half the price. OMG your a mod.... are mods not supposed to be unbiased or does afterdawn accept sony advertising revenue as looking through the other topics and posts no other mod seems so vehemently opposed to criticism to a sole corporate interest?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2008 @ 20:04

822.8.2008 20:12
1bonehead
Inactive

I don't carewho says what, I forsee a price drop at Christmas. Hey business is business.Always has been a price drop at Christmas, and always will !!!!


The BPI Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.
The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.
The IFPI Are: The same anti consumer lot as listed above!
The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX.

922.8.2008 22:44

meh the PS3 needs a 100$ price drop bad and so dose the fail60, the arcade needs to be 150, premium 200, the elite no more than 300..

1022.8.2008 23:15

@13thHour
Again you've said your point which you are entitled to now please do shutup this is a news discussion not a fanboy freestyle session.

And im not getting mad about you attacking sony, I'm just sick and tired of fanboys starting flames all over the news discussions and not even providing any evidence towards their argument(s).

1123.8.2008 10:22

I'll just say this: You get what you pay for.

And as the PS3 has been outselling its major competition all year, I don't know that they NEED a price cut by any means. Also consider the major titles they are releasing this fall, and a price cut doesn't make business sense. Its really not that bad. A year and a half ago I purchased my PS3 (60 gig model) for less than 350$ on ebay. I won't get the warranty without a proper store receipt, but with the stats on failure being as they are, I'm not worried about it.

Thats looking at it from a business standpoint wich is what this is all about in the end.

1223.8.2008 10:24

Originally posted by Hunt720:
I'll just say this: You get what you pay for.

And as the PS3 has been outselling its major competition all year, I don't know that they NEED a price cut by any means. Also consider the major titles they are releasing this fall, and a price cut doesn't make business sense. Its really not that bad. A year and a half ago I purchased my PS3 (60 gig model) for less than 350$ on ebay. I won't get the warranty without a proper store receipt, but with the stats on failure being as they are, I'm not worried about it.

Thats looking at it from a business standpoint wich is what this is all about in the end.
FYI tis been outselling the 360 but not the WII :P

1323.8.2008 11:29

You will see a price drop this holidays trust me Sony always drop there prices during the holiday...There not going to tell you anything right now..lol Because MS having a fire sale don't mean Sony need to have one there price compared to what you get from a PS3 is a great deal.


Originally posted by Oner:
Half the price, less than half the abilities & way less reliability...yeah great deal there.
Couldn't agree more...Some people will see that no cost is good enough if your having Hardware failures left & right then you got to waiting for MS to send you a cardboard coffin just to ship your dead system back.Great deal go head buy one my brother is on his fifth system...Thats insane & totally uncalled for.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Aug 2008 @ 11:32

1423.8.2008 12:37

To start with I plan on buying both a ps3 and 360 it's just a question of when. One thing I almost never do is pay full price for a game, that being said the ps3 titles seem to depreciate much slower than their 360 counterparts.

This early on in the ps3's life span I really don't see many games coming out in the near future that are going to blow the 360 away. Hopefully next year the devs will not be as lazy and stop porting 360 titles to the ps3. Maybe then the graphical difference and content of games will be noticeable between the two.

As it stands now the only real difference I see between the two consoles is hardware reliability. This fall I plan on picking up a new jasper 360 and buying a lot of older titles for half the price of new releases. If my 360 craps out on me then its back to ps2 waiting for my refurb.

If sony hadn't lost exclusive rights to ff13 and square enix I would have a ps3 already that was the tipping point for me. Hopefully by mid 2009 sony will put as much emphasis on games as they do for BR movies.

1523.8.2008 13:38
13thHouR
Inactive

maybe not for europe but...

http://i37.tinypic.com/fm6xb4.png

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Aug 2008 @ 20:37

1623.8.2008 13:49

@redux79 ~ There are quite a few titles that are coming that show the Ps3 is well designed for the future & better graphics/gameplay.

LittleBigPlanet - creative fun game with user made/sharable content not available on the 360
GT5 - 1080p @ 60 fps & Ray Tracing Elements
Resistance 2 - 60 online multiplayer!
Killzone 2 - overall powerhouse and looking to be the killer hit
Heavy Rain - extremely impressive graphics and a new style of gameplay
MAG - 256 online multiplayer!
Motorstorm 2 - Destructible environments & crazy gameplay/graphics to go with it
Socom Confrontation - that title alone needs no explanation

Those are just off the top of my head and ALL are exclusive. Not to mention the already available exclusive titles like Uncharted, MGS4, GT5P, Flow, Motorstorm 1, Pixel Junk Eden and more PLUS all the currently available & upcoming mutli-platform like COD4, Bioshock (soon), GTA4, Street Fighter 4 (soon), Fallout 3 (soon), Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy GRAW & Vegas series.

This is all opinion but there is alot to look forward too and CURRENTLY enjoy as well as just some additional features you get like

1) a Web Browser
2) Linux OS
3) Multi Media Compatibility with additional services like Tversity
4) Blu-Ray capabilities
5) PSP remote play for multi media or as a gaming connection (throw a PS1 title in the PS3 to play via remote play OR transfer/encode/save it to be played on a PSP!)


Some people can try and "label" me as whatever they want and they will be wrong. I am just a sensible shopper that looks to get the most out of my Home Theater, Gaming setups and my money most of all. I work hard for my money and I buy what I want. Period. I don't bother myself with "Big Bad Corporation Paranoia Bias"...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Aug 2008 @ 13:54

1723.8.2008 15:28

I fail to understand fanboyism. When I got my ps3 for $500 CDN, I had no hesitation. Now after five months, I still don't regret buying it but I'm not gonna start saying the 360 is gay or it's a failing machine that sucks, and I don't know why people have to say vice versa. Remember the news about the 60GB 360 anyone? Was there any hating on the 360 in it? No.

That said, I also agree that a price cut is most likely coming out near the christmas holiday's. Though based on my purchase, I don't see why they need to drop the price $100.



1823.8.2008 18:27

Originally posted by redux79:
If sony hadn't lost exclusive rights to ff13 and square enix I would have a ps3 already that was the tipping point for me.
Ah but here's the catch to their going multiplatform, the 360 version is going to be developed separately as not to hurt its performance on the ps3. Also the 360 version wont even start being developed until the ps3 version is a finished product. So if you plan on getting it for the 360 you're going to have to wait months if not a year after it is out on the ps3 and get a watered down version at that.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Aug 2008 @ 18:28

1923.8.2008 20:37

13thhour,
edited your link to a url link from IMG tags as it was stretching the page :)

2023.8.2008 22:14

Originally posted by Oner:
@redux79 ~ There are quite a few titles that are coming that show the Ps3 is well designed for the future & better graphics/gameplay.
The ps3 is very versatile and will most likely out live the 360 by a number of years. I guess what I was trying to say in my original post is that the ps3 will out shine the 360 eventually, at this point however it still seems to be a dead heat.

To purchase a ps3 now seems like more of an investment to me and an expensive one at that... at least for me. The price of the console isn't really the problem, it's the price of games and most of all the av equipment needed to fully utilize 1080p 60fps ect..

Atm I’m looking to replace my HTIB with a proper sound system that supports all sd-dvd dolby and dts audio codec’s. Unfortunately all of the receivers now have hdmi connections and my 1080i crt tv only has component video. If I want to change anything in my setup I'm going to have to buy a new tv as well. when all is said and done it's going to cost 4 to 5 times as much the upgrade my home theater than to buy a ps3. All of this is an eventuality so I plan to buy a 360 after the fall price drop and slowly save up to replace my av equipment. I really need to build a new pc as well.

So in the end the 360 is really to get a taste of next-gen at a reasonable price (cheaper older games) while I try to upgrade to all digital as the analog loop hole closes. I know I could just buy a ps3 now and then slowly upgrade, but I would be frustrated knowing that my I'm paying full price for games that weren't being used to their full potential.

@canuckerz
your right about the ps3 version being as it was originally intended (just a translation of the JP version). However all the hoopla at E3 about MS releasing ff13 on 360 also included SE signing a contract to have a simultaneous release date for both consoles. Even though the ps3 version will be ready long before the 360 version everyone in the US and Europe will have to wait until the end of 2009 maybe even 2010 for either version to see the light of day.

2124.8.2008 7:35
13thHouR
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
@redux79 ~ There are quite a few titles that are coming that show the Ps3 is well designed for the future & better graphics/gameplay.

LittleBigPlanet - creative fun game with user made/sharable content not available on the 360
GT5 - 1080p @ 60 fps & Ray Tracing Elements
Resistance 2 - 60 online multiplayer!
Killzone 2 - overall powerhouse and looking to be the killer hit
Heavy Rain - extremely impressive graphics and a new style of gameplay
MAG - 256 online multiplayer!
Motorstorm 2 - Destructible environments & crazy gameplay/graphics to go with it
Socom Confrontation - that title alone needs no explanation

Those are just off the top of my head and ALL are exclusive. Not to mention the already available exclusive titles like Uncharted, MGS4, GT5P, Flow, Motorstorm 1, Pixel Junk Eden and more PLUS all the currently available & upcoming mutli-platform like COD4, Bioshock (soon), GTA4, Street Fighter 4 (soon), Fallout 3 (soon), Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy GRAW & Vegas series.

This is all opinion but there is alot to look forward too and CURRENTLY enjoy as well as just some additional features you get like

1) a Web Browser
2) Linux OS
3) Multi Media Compatibility with additional services like Tversity
4) Blu-Ray capabilities
5) PSP remote play for multi media or as a gaming connection (throw a PS1 title in the PS3 to play via remote play OR transfer/encode/save it to be played on a PSP!)


Some people can try and "label" me as whatever they want and they will be wrong. I am just a sensible shopper that looks to get the most out of my Home Theater, Gaming setups and my money most of all. I work hard for my money and I buy what I want. Period. I don't bother myself with "Big Bad Corporation Paranoia Bias"...
my personal opinion to your statement "Some people can try and "label" me", is that you are not able to fairly moderate this forum, anyone that has a strong opinion about a certain brand/product cannot fairly operate in this environment. I've been looking over your posts and you seem to constantly trash the Microsoft 360, and always bringing into discussions the red ring of death while finding every reason to promote the Playstation 3, you are unbelievable, & have just destroyed my confidence in Afterdawn as an unbiased news discussion and forum.

Q. are news readers allowed to share their personal opinion or are they just there to report the news.


you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?

2224.8.2008 16:08

Originally posted by 13thHouR:
my personal opinion to your statement "Some people can try and "label" me", is that you are not able to fairly moderate this forum, anyone that has a strong opinion about a certain brand/product cannot fairly operate in this environment. I've been looking over your posts and you seem to constantly trash the Microsoft 360, and always bringing into discussions the red ring of death while finding every reason to promote the Playstation 3, you are unbelievable, & have just destroyed my confidence in Afterdawn as an unbiased news discussion and forum.

Q. are news readers allowed to share their personal opinion or are they just there to report the news.


you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?
You said it yourself, it's about PS3 not the 360, so stop bringing up "360 is god" after saying your opinion about the PS3. Just say the PS3 sucks and move along, you don't have to add in the fact that the 360 is half the price. We're not idiots.


2324.8.2008 16:17

Originally posted by rvinkebob:
Originally posted by 13thHouR:
my personal opinion to your statement "Some people can try and "label" me", is that you are not able to fairly moderate this forum, anyone that has a strong opinion about a certain brand/product cannot fairly operate in this environment. I've been looking over your posts and you seem to constantly trash the Microsoft 360, and always bringing into discussions the red ring of death while finding every reason to promote the Playstation 3, you are unbelievable, & have just destroyed my confidence in Afterdawn as an unbiased news discussion and forum.

Q. are news readers allowed to share their personal opinion or are they just there to report the news.


you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?
You said it yourself, it's about PS3 not the 360, so stop bringing up "360 is god" after saying your opinion about the PS3. Just say the PS3 sucks and move along, you don't have to add in the fact that the 360 is half the price. We're not idiots.
Well one could say in order for the 360 to stay competitive it needs to drop 50-100$, and gain a stranded BR drive. the PS3 just needs a price drop more than a overhaul.....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

2425.8.2008 9:09

Originally posted by 13thHouR:
you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?
Are you SERIOUS!?! Thats a bit hypocritical if I may say so. Also do you think your new name is fooling anyone? Funny how you are taking this so personally...I wonder why. Either way I'm not going for this anymore, speak what you want EVERYONE here sees and knows what is up.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Aug 2008 @ 9:13

2512.9.2008 16:22

Quote:
Originally posted by 13thHouR:
you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?
Are you SERIOUS!?! Thats a bit hypocritical if I may say so. Also do you think your new name is fooling anyone? Funny how you are taking this so personally...I wonder why. Either way I'm not going for this anymore, speak what you want EVERYONE here sees and knows what is up.
Sorry to resurect this from old post, Just to let you know, that is not the real 13thHouR, it is an imposter. I own and run R-Force.org and that is not my account or comments.

Personally I do not care about the PS3, I know full well they are sold at a loss by Sony in most countries (In the UK they are priced proportionately to other hardware) Probably the only country in the world where they turn over a profit on them.

The profit is in the Software Licensing.

Anyway as I said this was never an issue that R-Force or I would have ever have got involved in. I am not a Fanboy, well unless you count still owning n-gage-help.com that is. LOL

I have no idea why this guy us trying to apear to be me?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Sep 2008 @ 16:24

2612.9.2008 16:42
varnull
Inactive

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick.. I know both of you and I know he isn't you and vice-versa.

Nobody owns names on the internet.. he just happened to get in with that one on this site first (and for valid historical and personal reasons I might add).

We are well aware of who 13thHour on afterdawn is, and I don't think he in any way has tried to make people assume he is you ;)

Now as I didn't comment before on this topic.. because it was nasty (as usual when fanboyism and bias comes into play)

There was no need for this topic.. the news article was a statement of fact. Where is the possibility of any discussion about a report of a factual story? pointless pointless pointless.......

2712.9.2008 16:47
Dragula96
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
And yet it still outsells the 360 worldwide for the past 7+ months....even during the month the 360 had a price drop on the 20gb model! Handful of exclusives? Fact is Sony has the most exclusives. But on topic I wouldn't doubt as Christmas comes they would drop it by a little (maybe).
Not sure if this has been said yet, but don't you think that has something to do with the fact that it doubles as a Blu-ray player?

I'm tired of seeing these articles! Seems like there is a, "no price cut", article every other month - who cares?!

2812.9.2008 17:03

Originally posted by varnull:
I think you may have the wrong end of the stick.. I know both of you and I know he isn't you and vice-versa.

Nobody owns names on the internet.. he just happened to get in with that one on this site first (and for valid historical and personal reasons I might add).

We are well aware of who 13thHour on afterdawn is, and I don't think he in any way has tried to make people assume he is you ;)

Now as I didn't comment before on this topic.. because it was nasty (as usual when fanboyism and bias comes into play)

There was no need for this topic.. the news article was a statement of fact. Where is the possibility of any discussion about a report of a factual story? pointless pointless pointless.......
Just thought I should let peeps know, since he is signing in the same format as I use and also using one of our NCA Logo's which does create the illussion that it may be me.

btw an adivisory, keep a close eye on Byteshield, they have crept onto here as well, acount Byteshiel they keep spamming forums with their marketing spiel

Link just for purposed of the advisory: http://r-force.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=228

and

http://r-force.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=806

Anyway enough of my issue with that fake 13th poster hijacking this thread.

thx for your time.

2912.9.2008 17:21
varnull
Inactive

Thanks .. he's been a pretty good campaigner for our mutual cause.

I will have a word with him on irc next time he drops by about making some statement to clarify the situation ;)
Good article about BS.. linked from my site now also.. where we are anti drm and other nonsense.

All I need to do now is remember my password, or if not then make a new account. Thought everything had gone quiet and then realised I had lost the email I signed up with all those years ago ;) probably been cleared out.. it's been a pretty long time.

Catch you over there soon XD

3012.9.2008 17:41

Originally posted by i3thHouR:
Quote:
Originally posted by 13thHouR:
you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?
Are you SERIOUS!?! Thats a bit hypocritical if I may say so. Also do you think your new name is fooling anyone? Funny how you are taking this so personally...I wonder why. Either way I'm not going for this anymore, speak what you want EVERYONE here sees and knows what is up.
Sorry to resurect this from old post, Just to let you know, that is not the real 13thHouR, it is an imposter. I own and run R-Force.org and that is not my account or comments.

Personally I do not care about the PS3, I know full well they are sold at a loss by Sony in most countries (In the UK they are priced proportionately to other hardware) Probably the only country in the world where they turn over a profit on them.

The profit is in the Software Licensing.

Anyway as I said this was never an issue that R-Force or I would have ever have got involved in. I am not a Fanboy, well unless you count still owning n-gage-help.com that is. LOL

I have no idea why this guy us trying to apear to be me?
Surely you are not the only person on the planet to ever have the nick 13thhour?

3112.9.2008 21:09

Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Originally posted by i3thHouR:
Quote:
Originally posted by 13thHouR:
you do realise this news article is about No PS3 price cut in Europe not your personal soap box don't you?
Are you SERIOUS!?! Thats a bit hypocritical if I may say so. Also do you think your new name is fooling anyone? Funny how you are taking this so personally...I wonder why. Either way I'm not going for this anymore, speak what you want EVERYONE here sees and knows what is up.
Sorry to resurect this from old post, Just to let you know, that is not the real 13thHouR, it is an imposter. I own and run R-Force.org and that is not my account or comments.

Personally I do not care about the PS3, I know full well they are sold at a loss by Sony in most countries (In the UK they are priced proportionately to other hardware) Probably the only country in the world where they turn over a profit on them.

The profit is in the Software Licensing.

Anyway as I said this was never an issue that R-Force or I would have ever have got involved in. I am not a Fanboy, well unless you count still owning n-gage-help.com that is. LOL

I have no idea why this guy us trying to apear to be me?
Surely you are not the only person on the planet to ever have the nick 13thhour?

Yep I agree however, I am the original 13thHouR (signed in that way) and I head up the New Cyber Army (NCA), which if you look at the other 13th's signature, is our logo linked from r-force.org

I have found out who he is now, he is one of the guys that replicated the Starforce drive issue, back when we where taking on Ubisoft and I published the howto's and proof of hardware damage by said DRM.

However I am still not quite sure why he adopted my signature and logo's. He is quite verbal campaigner in his own right so i thought he would prefer to use his own profile on the net rather than adopting a well known one that already existed for a number of years, I know he is linking R-Force out of respect for the work we do, but combining our NCA banner from R-force.org (My Graphic) with the my manner of writing my signature is missleading to others.

Hopefully he will add a signature making it clear he is not 13thHouR from R-Force, if only for his own personal safety as I have unintentionally accummalated some very powerful enemies along the way. I would not forgive myself if he ended up being shot at with a bullet intended for me. Which is a strong possibility as I have already be on the recieving end of an attempted assassination back in Derry in 2002.

Oh well you guys know he is not me, so maybe others will realise that too.

He did PM and invite me here, but I do think that would get kind of puzzling for peeps since we have the same signature, he uses my normal one.

Anyway, as I was saying I will let you all get back to your thread. Sorry for intruding.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Sep 2008 @ 21:16

3213.9.2008 4:28
13thHouR
Inactive

Quote:
I would not forgive myself if he ended up being shot at with a bullet intended for me. Which is a strong possibility as I have already be on the recieving end of an attempted assassination back in Derry in 2002.
Those pesky Russians.

Comments have been disabled for this article.

News archive