AfterDawn: Tech news

Now up for sale: Your PSN credit card info, including CCV numbers

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 30 Apr 2011 14:57 User comments (66)

Now up for sale: Your PSN credit card info, including CCV numbers According to PSX Scene, PSN user's worst fears have been confirmed, as unknown hackers are now selling a database with 2.2 million credit card numbers to the highest bidder.
The database also includes CCV security numbers (3 or 4 numbers on the back of the card), which means anyone with the numbers and names can purchase online without a hitch.

It appears the hackers first tried to sell the database back to Sony themselves, but Sony was not buying.

The database is now available on black market credit forums.

Sony confirmed early this week that the PSN had been hacked, with personal data from 77 million users being compromised including name, address, email, profile data and credit card info.

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66 user comments

130.4.2011 15:03

Sigh. Time to visit my bank.

230.4.2011 15:07

damn! glad i dont use the psn

330.4.2011 15:09
lissenup4
Inactive

Damn, I've been foiled again by AD mods. I guess calling them out on their lame, unobjective comments merits banning. Oh well.....on to the 14th attempt.



Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.

530.4.2011 15:22

How do I even know what card I used 3 years ago? I have 4 cards. Thanks sony....

630.4.2011 16:24

How would it be possible for them to sell it to anyone for so much?? I'm sure it not possible to do that without getting traced back to the source.

730.4.2011 16:27
erratyc
Unverified new user

They do NOT have CCV numbers as Sony NEVER asks for those for purchases through the PSN. In all actuality they most likely don't have consumers CC numbers at all. All Sony has said is that it is possible, because of the type of hack, that the hackers could have accessed the info. Stop believing everything you read on internet blogs, and for the love of whatever deity you believe in get your facts straight before you post something as "news"

830.4.2011 16:37

Originally posted by lissenup4:
Damn, I've been foiled again by AD mods. I guess calling them out on their lame, unobjective comments merits banning. Oh well.....on to the 14th attempt.

Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.
Let's just say you're not the first person Oner has banned on a power trip while defending the actions of Sony. Posts have been deleted, but he was in part responsible for the ban on comments on gaming news a while back because he is incapable of being impartial as a moderator.

^ PEBKAC ^

930.4.2011 16:46

watch it.

1030.4.2011 16:58
fireplexus
Unverified new user

sony has never asked for the ccv lol. sounds like bs to me.

1130.4.2011 17:06

Originally posted by ddp:
watch it.
Just sayin. I've no problem at all with your moderation style, I just don't think he should be moderating anything to do with Sony where he is an active, passionate participant in the discussion. If he wants to demonstrate some integrity, he should either remain impartial and refrain from comment as you commendably have, or leave the moderation for someone like yourself if he has an opinion to share.

^ PEBKAC ^

1230.4.2011 17:16

lissenup# has had run ins with myself, oner & creaky but still doesn't learn from his bans

1330.4.2011 18:04

You act like them "selling it back to sony" would have done anything. What prevents them from copying it? Let me put it this way...if you could make double your money easily would you give the list back? If you said yes, you are obviously not a smart person. If you said no the you understand how they were thinking and Sony wasn't buying the scam.

1430.4.2011 18:28

I laugh at these news press as how they say and believe that 128 bit encrypted cc numbers are being sold. Now ask yourself this, why would you buy Psn accounts if you know how to decrypt 128 bit files? Why don't they just hack bank accounts? Psn cc numbers is incrypted just like how the bank is. Think about it people. The only thing that your wanting to worry about is identity theft, not your cc number. Sense please please(your head)(let the light bulb brighter)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Apr 2011 @ 18:34

1530.4.2011 19:17

There are people still using ps3's?


"Cable thief is a victimless crime."

1630.4.2011 19:31
Mikeyloo
Unverified new user

Originally posted by plutonash:
There are people still using ps3's?
There are people who are still idiots?

1730.4.2011 20:41
Captain Jeff
Unverified new user

Seems like every article/site is jumping on this bogus story >_>

First off, why would they wait over a week to sell the CC info (that's assuming they have it)? Why not sell it right off the bat? Any legit hacker would sell/use it AS SOON as they got it and not wait for the users to get a new CC.

Not to mention nobody in their right mind would buy it considering all the media attention PSN has right now.

1830.4.2011 20:48

Quote:
Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.
I agree 100%.


Quote:
There are people who are still idiots?

Yes, you know, the ones who are blaming Sony for all of this. They will probably be the same ones looking for something free out of all of this.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Apr 2011 @ 20:50

1930.4.2011 22:21

not fact plus the numbers on the back are not on PSN severs.

2030.4.2011 23:18

The hackers could also sell the email addresses to spammers.


JB

211.5.2011 2:58

Originally posted by juaneryle:
The hackers could also sell the email addresses to spammers.
not likely. they use your email to do more damage, all it takes is for your email address to show up with "hey dude check out this pic". anyone less technically inclined would open the link. those of us that are tech savy know to always check the source of the link.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 May 2011 @ 3:01

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221.5.2011 4:13
the banner
Unverified new user

Originally posted by Smacks:
Quote:
Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.
I agree 100%.


Quote:
There are people who are still idiots?

Yes, you know, the ones who are blaming Sony for all of this. They will probably be the same ones looking for something free out of all of this.
I am blaming Sony for this, in my opinion they should have had much much better security in the first place. It shouldn't matter that's its free or paid for I trusted Sony to keep my personal information safe and they didn't. How can people say that its a free service when I paid over 300 quid for my ps3 and when the blu ray driver broke at xmas Sony then charged me 130 quid for a reconditiond ps3, plus all the games i've purchased and the downloads i've bought. I couldn't care less about psn + just give me a bit of store credit.

231.5.2011 4:23

Originally posted by Schmick:
Originally posted by lissenup4:
Damn, I've been foiled again by AD mods. I guess calling them out on their lame, unobjective comments merits banning. Oh well.....on to the 14th attempt.

Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.
Let's just say you're not the first person Oner has banned on a power trip while defending the actions of Sony. Posts have been deleted, but he was in part responsible for the ban on comments on gaming news a while back because he is incapable of being impartial as a moderator.
hah! you should have seen him go back in the format wars, lost quite a few members to his banning spree's. i don't necessarily like the way Oner handles situations, he lures you in then traps you....he literally reminds me of a fly trap.

to each his own, Oner is no exception to the rule.

Powered By

241.5.2011 5:16
Seriously?
Unverified new user

According to PSX Scene.... I stopped reading there.

251.5.2011 7:06

According to gamespot.com most vendors don't keep the 3 digit security code so I also doubt that any credit card info will be useful especially since the large financial banking companies such as wells fargo haven't reported any unauthorized use.

261.5.2011 13:27

Originally posted by Schmick:
Originally posted by lissenup4:
Damn, I've been foiled again by AD mods. I guess calling them out on their lame, unobjective comments merits banning. Oh well.....on to the 14th attempt.

Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.
Let's just say you're not the first person Oner has banned on a power trip while defending the actions of Sony. Posts have been deleted, but he was in part responsible for the ban on comments on gaming news a while back because he is incapable of being impartial as a moderator.
You don't know me and are talking complete and utter BS. As far as bannings go, he won't be the last either. It's preety simple honestly ~ If you break the rules and can't keep on topic without taking it to a personal level (as it always does) then you will be handled accordingly. Not a very hard concept.

Originally posted by DXR88:
hah! you should have seen him go back in the format wars, lost quite a few members to his banning spree's. i don't necessarily like the way Oner handles situations, he lures you in then traps you....he literally reminds me of a fly trap.

to each his own, Oner is no exception to the rule.
And here comes the other usual one to jump in when it comes to "Oner"...I will simply say this ~ I have no issue with what anyone says about anything. But if you post misinformation, false and/or biased comments that have no factual basis/proof I WILL CALL YOU ON IT and prove you wrong. Then what usually happens is direct insults towards me personally with outright disrespectful lies that are absolutely untrue/unfounded (which happens because I have proven their post(s) completely wrong so they have nothing else to stand on but to come at me personally) is when I have to put you/whoever in their place.

I always find it funny how when someone BREAKS THE RULES of which they have been WARNED NUMEROUS TIMES FOR how you get a certain few to come at me personally...hhmmm just like this specific example with lissenup. Quite odd of a correlation isn't it huh?

Originally posted by ddp:
lissenup# has had run ins with myself, oner & creaky but still doesn't learn from his bans
Exactly ddp. Thank You.

As for the topic at hand if this is true (which is possible) this would just further prove my point that whoever did this doesn't have the consumers back.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 May 2011 @ 13:31

271.5.2011 15:48

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by Schmick:
Originally posted by lissenup4:
Damn, I've been foiled again by AD mods. I guess calling them out on their lame, unobjective comments merits banning. Oh well.....on to the 14th attempt.

Ok.......so anyone with a CC on the PSN should simply cancel their card or suspend it or at the very least, put a fraud alert on it. To anything to the contrary would indicate moron behavior.
Let's just say you're not the first person Oner has banned on a power trip while defending the actions of Sony. Posts have been deleted, but he was in part responsible for the ban on comments on gaming news a while back because he is incapable of being impartial as a moderator.
You don't know me and are talking complete and utter BS. As far as bannings go, he won't be the last either. It's preety simple honestly ~ If you break the rules and can't keep on topic without taking it to a personal level (as it always does) then you will be handled accordingly. Not a very hard concept.

Originally posted by DXR88:
hah! you should have seen him go back in the format wars, lost quite a few members to his banning spree's. i don't necessarily like the way Oner handles situations, he lures you in then traps you....he literally reminds me of a fly trap.

to each his own, Oner is no exception to the rule.
And here comes the other usual one to jump in when it comes to "Oner"...I will simply say this ~ I have no issue with what anyone says about anything. But if you post misinformation, false and/or biased comments that have no factual basis/proof I WILL CALL YOU ON IT and prove you wrong. Then what usually happens is direct insults towards me personally with outright disrespectful lies that are absolutely untrue/unfounded (which happens because I have proven their post(s) completely wrong so they have nothing else to stand on but to come at me personally) is when I have to put you/whoever in their place.

I always find it funny how when someone BREAKS THE RULES of which they have been WARNED NUMEROUS TIMES FOR how you get a certain few to come at me personally...hhmmm just like this specific example with lissenup. Quite odd of a correlation isn't it huh?

Originally posted by ddp:
lissenup# has had run ins with myself, oner & creaky but still doesn't learn from his bans
Exactly ddp. Thank You.

As for the topic at hand if this is true (which is possible) this would just further prove my point that whoever did this doesn't have the consumers back.
AD's no fun if we cant jump on the bad mod Oner bandwagon, Search your feeling you know it to be true ;)


Lissenup's a pain anyway,if i was a mod id perma ban him.

as for the article. Sony could have assisted in the FBI investigation of this matter by saying.(lie)yes we would love to buy back are stolen data base. instead they let an opportunity to catch the crooks slip away, that's the way i see it.

Powered By

281.5.2011 18:03

i read comments about how it's a lie... and from others about how sony is at fault... i receive many emails daily that claim to have ways to hack stuff, others that claim to be information of how robbers are using some new technique and i should pass it on to those i care about... i always say that it's all a lie to get the emails to run around so they can make a good email database... yet i still take things into consideration when it comes to safety... for instance when i drive at night i drive with my windows up and try to park my car in places where it would at least not make it so easy for robbers to target me and stuff like that... i guess my point is, yes some of this stuff sound inaccurate, but people should still be safe and take the necesary steps to avoid fraud... it doesn't seem impossible to me that even though a company might say they don't keep information that they still might do it just because they can... it's not that much unbeleivable... and what i do see is that when it comes to sony's information they will go way way out of their way to intimidate people... and in this case since they would not be the ones directly affected they just say "oh people, by the way, someone took your information... so that's that".
just looking at the facts.


X_x

291.5.2011 18:05

Originally posted by DXR88:
AD's no fun if we cant jump on the bad mod Oner bandwagon, Search your feeling you know it to be true ;)

Lissenup's a pain anyway,if i was a mod id perma ban him.
Been dealing with pains in the @$$ for more than 8 years here on aD ;P

301.5.2011 22:01

In my opinion Sony had whats coming to them.
Consumer bought a product from Sony, then modified it (hacked it)
Sony turned around and with the aid of authorites sized his computers, and gaming systems, and filed suit against said hacker
Fellow hackers warned Sony of intent to hack
Sony continued to pursue lawsuit, hackers striked Playstation employees.
1st hacker group stopped because they did not want to affect other consumers, other hackers kept on going, then hacked Sonys trusted system.
The lists where offered to Sony first before any others
Sony declined the offer (which makes me wonder if Sony actually cares about any of it's consumers)
Now the offer is up to the highest bidder.
I do feel bad for Sony consumers, and have myself cancelled my credit card. But if Sony wants to strike at the little man they should be prepared. People (consumers) are getting tired of being jerked around by big corporations.
Don't get me wrong, I think what the hackers are doing is wrong, but I understand that they are trying to prove a point to Sony and other corporations that care more about money then their costumers.
And to be honest.... I wonder what is really on the "list" and if the "list" really exists.

312.5.2011 3:22

Originally posted by lawndog:
In my opinion Sony had whats coming to them.
Consumer bought a product from Sony, then modified it (hacked it)
Sony turned around and with the aid of authorites sized his computers, and gaming systems, and filed suit against said hacker
Fellow hackers warned Sony of intent to hack
Sony continued to pursue lawsuit, hackers striked Playstation employees.
1st hacker group stopped because they did not want to affect other consumers, other hackers kept on going, then hacked Sonys trusted system.
The lists where offered to Sony first before any others
Sony declined the offer (which makes me wonder if Sony actually cares about any of it's consumers)
Now the offer is up to the highest bidder.
I do feel bad for Sony consumers, and have myself cancelled my credit card. But if Sony wants to strike at the little man they should be prepared. People (consumers) are getting tired of being jerked around by big corporations.
Don't get me wrong, I think what the hackers are doing is wrong, but I understand that they are trying to prove a point to Sony and other corporations that care more about money then their costumers.
And to be honest.... I wonder what is really on the "list" and if the "list" really exists.
Agree a 100%
Any Corporation do not care about their Customers, not even about their little Companies who supply them....all they care is about their Greed !

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 May 2011 @ 3:53

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

322.5.2011 5:45

VISA t&c's state cvv numbers are not allowed to be held by third party's this reinforced by banking code of conduct. i have spoken to both visa and my bank and they have confirmed that information. If noticed when you make a purchase online and store you cc details the next time you log in you have to re-enter you cvv number. the only way the hackers could of got your cvv number is by using a keylogger on the server, but with cc information encypted by sony a key logger would be inneffective. so do us all a favour and delete this thread as all it is scaremonger tactics. i wouldnt normally join a site just to comment especially as i only came to this site while i was trawling for more info on psn outage. but what i saw compelled me to comment as for over zealous mods. our modern world is based on free speech but every day our goverments are trying to take this away from us the last thing we need is a little hitler trying to take it away as well so grow a pair of stones and suck it up and allow freedom of expression and if you feel like you want to take me i welcome it, i love a good arguement.

332.5.2011 14:31

Originally posted by lawndog:
Consumer bought a product from Sony ~ True
then modified it (hacked it) ~ True
Sony turned around and with the aid of authorites sized his computers, and gaming systems, and filed suit against said hacker ~ True to an extent without other info
Fellow hackers warned Sony of intent to hack ~ True
Sony continued to pursue lawsuit, hackers striked Playstation employees. ~ True
1st hacker group stopped because they did not want to affect other consumers, other hackers kept on going, then hacked Sonys trusted system. ~ Not confirmed/no proof
The lists where offered to Sony first before any others ~ False
Sony declined the offer (which makes me wonder if Sony actually cares about any of it's consumers) ~ False
Now the offer is up to the highest bidder. ~ False

I sure would like to see some factual evidence referencing some of the not so accurate information you believe is true.

Here is clarification of some items ~

Source
Quote:
While there is no evidence at this time that credit card data was taken, the company is committed to helping its customers protect their personal data and will provide a complimentary offering to assist users in enrolling in identity theft protection services and/or similar programs. The implementation will be at a local level and further details will be made available shortly in each region.
Source
Quote:
One report indicated that a group tried to sell millions of credit card numbers back to Sony. To my knowledge there is no truth to this report of a list, or that Sony was offered an opportunity to purchase the list.
Quote:
While the passwords that were stored were not encrypted they were transformed using a cryptographic hash function. There is a difference between these two types of security measures which is why we said the passwords had not been encrypted. But I want to be very clear that the passwords were not stored in our database in cleartext form. For a description of the difference between encryption and hashing, follow this link.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 May 2011 @ 14:35

343.5.2011 7:03

@Oner, im not so sure chap, a discussion with a friend over the weekend... He tells me how his daughter has mysterious 100 - 200 £ charges since the PS hack and her car issuer/bank is already looking into it.

Im hoping to catch up with him tomorrow and find out what happened so far.

She was registered on PSN with her details, they get hacked and now part of her wages have gone missing in mysterious transactions.

Ive read reports of other people for other places, but this is the first one ive had first hand so far.

But if its all true thats about 102 Million Credit card Numbers with both breaches ...

353.5.2011 9:40
lissenup9
Inactive

edited by ddpI'll just come back with another username PUNKS

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 May 2011 @ 16:34

363.5.2011 11:59

Are we up to version 9 already?

Whilst it's correct Oner confuses "truth" with "opinion", has a very slippery notion of what the word "moderator" means (there's a verb in there somewhere) and will cherry-pick statements at his convenience while driving away new members in droves... I have to concur with Dexter88, I would ban your sorry ass too.

:)


Back on track... What are you all fools?

Big woop if they don't have the CCVs. Crooks will test for the CCV codes on iTunes (typically). It's no trouble for a bot to run through a 1000-10000 numbers. And with a large number of CCs it will run them all in a chaotic sequence to trick security measures. I.e. not one after the other.

Before "someone" comes after me with the "truth" let me say this has happened to yours truly and I have conferred this with the fraud section of my rather large bank, which I also happen to be a shareholder in.

Though what they wanted with ~$300 worth of Lego from the headquarters in Denmark beats me. Oh yeah, take note, we deliberately leave it at the minimum credit level $500 and top it up if I want a larger transaction... via Seamonkey in Puppy Linux Distro. Where we also do all our online shopping nowadays.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

373.5.2011 14:46

How do i unsubscribe from this, the others let me,,,

383.5.2011 19:19

Originally posted by plazma247:
@Oner, im not so sure chap, a discussion with a friend over the weekend... He tells me how his daughter has mysterious 100 - 200 £ charges since the PS hack and her car issuer/bank is already looking into it.

Im hoping to catch up with him tomorrow and find out what happened so far.

She was registered on PSN with her details, they get hacked and now part of her wages have gone missing in mysterious transactions.

Ive read reports of other people for other places, but this is the first one ive had first hand so far.

But if its all true thats about 102 Million Credit card Numbers with both breaches ...
Could be coincidence or not. Either way I am not saying the information provided is 100% accurate or "set in stone" just passing on the most recent news/information as I come across it. Just like this tid bit that states "UK Banks advising against replacing cards after PSN hack" ~ Source


Originally posted by Jemborg:
Whilst it's correct Oner confuses "truth" with "opinion"
I whole heartedly & emphatically agree that your statement is 100% opinion and not correct. THAT much is absolute truth.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
will cherry-pick statements at his convenience
I only "cherry-pick" the ones that are inaccurate and/or that need addressing. Just like I am doing here in the reply. There is a BIG difference.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
while driving away new members in droves...
That's quite some bull$#@! you got there...care to provide any proof of such a claim? Because how I see it, the only people that I may drive away are blatant Trolls who post nothing but unsupported, undocumented, unproven, misinformation & FUD (kinda like your own comment of which you have absolutely no way of proving) and which of whom do not actually contribute to Afterdawn very much, other than to post in News Comments and not do much of ANYTHING else here.

And I will re-iterate this ~

Quote:
I always find it funny how when someone BREAKS THE RULES of which they have been WARNED NUMEROUS TIMES FOR how you get a certain few to come at me personally...hhmmm just like this specific example with lissenup. Quite odd of a correlation isn't it huh?
So please understand this next part VERY CLEARLY. I would be well within my moderator powers to ban your account right here, right now for your continued incessant & unfounded insulting <personal> attacks of which you have been warned for NUMEROUS times as well. So if you want to keep pressing the issue, we can keep this up. But remember ~ I did not start this. I just upheld a warning given by other moderators & myself to LissenUp of which he did not adhere to...sounds very familiar of a situation huh? Oh and for the record I did not ban the last 2 postings by LissenUp, so this is not something that I am alone in.

So as they say in chess ~ Your Move.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 May 2011 @ 19:24

393.5.2011 21:09

@Oner

Chap sony already confirmed it, i think pretty much their acceptance of the credit card numbers had gone and the agreement to compensate those with monetary loss as a result of having to replace cards etc. In the last news conference.

http://www.irwebcasting.com/110501/02/3a33cc2c90/index.html

Keep up PIP PIP.

403.5.2011 23:18

i did the banning.

413.5.2011 23:32

Hey guys what's going in this thre.. OH LAWDY!

The thread seemed to have derailed onto quite the drama; is it worth locking?

424.5.2011 0:03

@Oner

It's true, it is just my opinion. I only express it when I think you act like a jerk. Which is not all the time I might add. I don't think you are the worst person but you are intolerant of being fairly taken to task when you make your, er, "pronouncements" though... and of course you'd disagree with my first remark heh.

Have a careful look at my signature... it's the code I try to live my life by.

Go ahead and ban me if it makes you feel better. That would be pretty pathetic and just proves me right after all.

Sorry that I mostly post in the news sections... I'm just too busy to get on to the forum proper much. Hardly a major fault.



EDIT: You know when I say "cherry-pick" I mean "take statements out of context". Yeah, that makes me furious, it's the sly equivalent of putting words in my mouth.


_________________________________________________________________

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 May 2011 @ 2:22

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

434.5.2011 1:31

@Oner the statements that your saying are false in my comment where taken directly from the news article posted.
so to say, "I sure would like to see some factual evidence referencing some of the not so accurate information you believe is true"
All you have to do is look up at Andre Yoskowitzs article posted as to which the comment I made was in regards to.
Hopefully you didn't think I was just pulling information out of my rear. It's posted here on Afterdawn.
And being that my post was a comment directly related to the news article the information available as you claim to be "not so accurate" in the article as to which I commented. And I believe it to be within my full right to comment on the article believeing that the information to be true, as it is under the "news" column. Now I suppose I could "research" the information myself. But to do true research to appease everybody one would have to have first hand knowledge now what is read on the website, or on Sonys blog. (yes I did read your sources)
I do appreaciate you showing where you got your information and giving Sony's take on the situation. But I do not appreciate you making it appear that I just randomly generated the information I posted. Because it was in fact in the article itself.
And just so you don't think I'm some troll who only posts in news forums on AD and doesn't contribute to AD in any other way. I've been visiting and posting to AD since August of 2004, almost 7 years now. Majority of my posting where in the guides section, yes helping others. I doubt that comment was in regards to me though, although I could be wrong.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 May 2011 @ 2:00

444.5.2011 2:29

It would have been made to me lawndog.

It's seems only having the time to post in the news section is a failing of sorts. I suppose it implies I'm some sort of troll who contributes nothing not even something stimulating or informative.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

454.5.2011 11:00

Originally posted by Jemborg:
@Oner

It's true, it is just my opinion. I only express it when I think you act like a jerk. Which is not all the time I might add. I don't think you are the worst person but you are intolerant of being fairly taken to task when you make your, er, "pronouncements" though... and of course you'd disagree with my first remark heh.

Have a careful look at my signature... it's the code I try to live my life by.

Go ahead and ban me if it makes you feel better. That would be pretty pathetic and just proves me right after all.
"Me thinks thou dost protest too much" Or, in laymen's terms ~ the more you try to talk your way out of it, the less you will be believed. What I see is you trying to side step a possible banning with a weak pseudo reverse psychology comment/attempt with that "proves me right after all" quip.

No it wouldn't prove you right because this is what you just don't seem to want to understand no matter how it is explained ~ YOU would be given the same exact punishment that lissenup got for his inability to follow THE SAME EXACT multiple warnings. Including additional items (in part) such as the direct violation of rule #14 "Do not play the role of a moderator if you are not one." You think nitpicking/adding your 2 cents about a totally justified banning and throwing out personal attacks towards an ACTUAL moderator is acceptable in some way? Nope. It's not. "Let the moderators do their work." But I'm actually not going to ban you (right now), but keep it up, and if it happens, just don't bitch about it afterwards because you have had ample warning time to move on.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
You know when I say "cherry-pick" I mean "take statements out of context". Yeah, that makes me furious, it's the sly equivalent of putting words in my mouth.
No I don't know what you mean. I don't "take statements out of context". I specifically address the issues of which that need to be fixed (i.e. the misinformation that is/was said). The only reason why you THINK it is "taken out of context" is because you get proven wrong in what was said, and you can't deal with that other than trying to attack me personally. And that's the where the difference between you and me lie. I proverbially "attack the post" with provable references/documentation and when that happens you "attack the poster" (ME) personally because you were WRONG.

Which is no different than you are here.

Edit:
Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
while driving away new members in droves...
That's quite some bull$#@! you got there...care to provide any proof of such a claim? Because how I see it, the only people that I may drive away are blatant Trolls who post nothing but unsupported, undocumented, unproven, misinformation & FUD (kinda like your own comment of which you have absolutely no way of proving)
Oh and isn't it convenient how you have absolutely nothing to say about that...


Originally posted by ROMaster2:
Hey guys what's going in this thre.. OH LAWDY!

The thread seemed to have derailed onto quite the drama; is it worth locking?
Yes it is worth locking, but I will leave that up to another mod and/or how it goes on from here as the topic at hand is VERY important...but some "members" seem to have a very bad habit of going off topic when it comes to things they should mind their business about.


Originally posted by lawndog:
@Oner the statements that your saying are false in my comment where taken directly from the news article posted.
so to say, "I sure would like to see some factual evidence referencing some of the not so accurate information you believe is true"
All you have to do is look up at Andre Yoskowitzs article posted as to which the comment I made was in regards to.
Hopefully you didn't think I was just pulling information out of my rear. It's posted here on Afterdawn.
And being that my post was a comment directly related to the news article the information available as you claim to be "not so accurate" in the article as to which I commented. And I believe it to be within my full right to comment on the article believeing that the information to be true, as it is under the "news" column. Now I suppose I could "research" the information myself. But to do true research to appease everybody one would have to have first hand knowledge now what is read on the website, or on Sonys blog. (yes I did read your sources)
I do appreaciate you showing where you got your information and giving Sony's take on the situation. But I do not appreciate you making it appear that I just randomly generated the information I posted. Because it was in fact in the article itself.
This article by DVDBack says nothing about ~

Originally posted by lawndog:
Consumer bought a product from Sony
then modified it (hacked it)
Sony turned around and with the aid of authorites sized his computers, and gaming systems, and filed suit against said hacker
Fellow hackers warned Sony of intent to hack
Sony continued to pursue lawsuit, hackers striked Playstation employees.
But there is no problem with you posting what you said at all. I just asked if you could provide some info to confirm some of the items you said with actual proof/links (these specifically below) ~

Quote:
1st hacker group stopped because they did not want to affect other consumers, other hackers kept on going, then hacked Sonys trusted system. ~ Not confirmed/no proof EDIT Below
The lists where offered to Sony first before any others ~ False
Sony declined the offer (which makes me wonder if Sony actually cares about any of it's consumers) ~ False
Not just unverifiable forum posts or conjecture so I/we may not be misinformed about this completely serious issue. Especially since all of what you posted is completely on topic and relevant. And no I was not implying you as someone who does not contribute here on aD. So please accept my apology if it came of that way since its a given that you do. So please do not take that as something directed towards yourself. Cheers.


Edit:
Looks like Anonymous was behind this after all. As it was never confirmed they were or weren't, which was why I asked for reference from you about "other hackers" being responsible ~

Quote:
We discovered that the intruders had planted a file on one of our Sony Online Entertainment servers named “Anonymous” with the words “We are Legion.”
Source "Sony’s Response to the U.S. House of Representatives"

Full Details/Quote ~

Quote:
Today, the Subcommittee on Commerce, Manufacturing and Trade of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce held a hearing in Washington, DC on “The Threat of Data Theft to American Consumers.”

Kazuo Hirai, Chairman of the Board of Directors of Sony Computer Entertainment America, submitted written answers to questions posed by the subcommittee about the large-scale, criminal cyber-attack we have experienced. We wanted to share those answers with you (click here).

In summary, we told the subcommittee that in dealing with this cyber attack we followed four key principles:

1. Act with care and caution.
2. Provide relevant information to the public when it has been verified.
3. Take responsibility for our obligations to our customers.
4. Work with law enforcement authorities.

We also informed the subcommittee of the following:

* Sony has been the victim of a very carefully planned, very professional, highly sophisticated criminal cyber attack.

*We discovered that the intruders had planted a file on one of our Sony Online Entertainment servers named “Anonymous” with the words “We are Legion.”

* By April 25, forensic teams were able to confirm the scope of the personal data they believed had been taken, and could not rule out whether credit card information had been accessed. On April 26, we notified customers of those facts.

* As of today, the major credit card companies have not reported any fraudulent transactions that they believe are the direct result of this cyber attack.

* Protecting individuals’ personal data is the highestpriority and ensuring that the Internet can be made secure for commerce is also essential. Worldwide, countries and businesses will have to come together to ensure the safety of commerce over the Internet and find ways to combat cybercrime and cyber terrorism.

* We are taking a number of steps to prevent future breaches, including enhanced levels of data protection and encryption; enhanced ability to detect software intrusions, unauthorized access and unusual activity patterns; additional firewalls; establishment of a new data center in an undisclosed location with increased security; and the naming of a new Chief Information Security Officer.

* We told the subcommittee about our intent to offer complimentary identity theft protection to U.S. account holders and detailed the “Welcome Back” program that includes free downloads, 30 days of free membership in the
PlayStation Plus premium subscription service; 30 days of free service for Music Unlimited subscribers; and extending PlayStation Plus and Music Unlimited subscriptions for the number of days services were unavailable.

* We are working around the clock to have some PlayStation Network services restored and we’ll be providing specific details shortly. We hope this update is helpful to you, and we will continue to keep you posted as we work to restore our network and provide you with both the entertainment and the security you deserve.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 May 2011 @ 14:15

464.5.2011 11:12

I agree 100% too because in this day if the hackers damage the playstation network the whole world could being playing online right now join there self with black ops


LOL OMG THE PLAYSTATION NETWORK IS COMING BACK THIS SUNDAY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH PLAYSTATION RULERS

474.5.2011 14:58

@Oner so Anon is responsible? Well that makes them liars. Unless it's a breakaway group. The thick plottens.

Hang on haha, I think you think I was defending Lissenup. At least that's the impression I get from your rant.

Quote:
....rule #14 "Do not play the role of a moderator if you are not one." You think nitpicking/adding your 2 cents about a totally justified banning and throwing out personal attacks towards an ACTUAL moderator is acceptable in some way?...

When I wrote "I would ban your sorry ass too", I was speaking to him not you. I think he's a f-wit. Don't try to tar me with the same brush! LOL

At least I can admit to having opinions and also to being wrong... I don't pretend I'm infallible. Ranting about the "truth" is not my style. Yeah, it's my opinion you've driven away new members. Good ones. You're an utter bully at times. I've reported you for it. (Not when you've tried it with me.) So I guess there is some kind of evidence for it somewhere. Being a moderator doesn't place you above criticism, not when you're joining in on the thread.

That above is a common definition of "cherry-picking" and I've had to defend myself from it from you on many occasions, and I've had members PMing me about those occasions. And not the members you think would be either. Heck, you've even done it yourself.

Since I am now being painted with convoluted back-peddling and "protesting too much" (btw, talk myself out of what?)... as to the rest of what you wrote it's a big what-ever then mate. But know this... it's not personal Oner, you may think ("truth") it is, but it's not.

I'm not even angry, no matter how stupid and mendacious (and "transparent") you try to make out I am. :)

It's a real pity this has happened, after all, I really was just going along with DXR88's comment at the time:
Originally posted by DXR88:
AD's no fun if we cant jump on the bad mod Oner bandwagon, Search your feeling you know it to be true ;)

Lissenup's a pain anyway,if i was a mod id perma ban him.

I really wish you had not chosen to blow it all up and just taken it on the chin.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As I suppose this is possibly the last time I get to post... I'd just like to thank all those who've made AD an enjoyable experience, especially those clever wits who have made me LOL so much. I'd like to thank the news guys for their efforts, especially Andre. I never cared for becoming an AD Addict but getting to Senior felt pretty good. I suppose I won't get sent the prize I won in the last competition now, nevermind, I understand. it would be rather ironic if I did. :D

I'd also like to wish all those caught up in this PSN mess all the best of luck.


Cheers.



PS: Life's too short anyway and my little boy Gus just turned one yesterday. :)


________________________________________________________________________________________
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 May 2011 @ 15:11

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

484.5.2011 15:47

Behave y'selves! :) Anyone know when psn is back on in the uk? Thanks

494.5.2011 15:51

Originally posted by Jemborg:
@Oner so Anon is responsible? Well that makes them liars. Unless it's a breakaway group. The thick plottens.

Hang on haha, I think you think I was defending Lissenup. At least that's the impression I get from your rant.
No I do not think you are defending Lissenup, but you continually interject with things not of your business. THAT is part of the issue.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
Quote:
....rule #14 "Do not play the role of a moderator if you are not one." You think nitpicking/adding your 2 cents about a totally justified banning and throwing out personal attacks towards an ACTUAL moderator is acceptable in some way?...

When I wrote "I would ban your sorry ass too", I was speaking to him not you. I think he's a f-wit. Don't try to tar me with the same brush! LOL
My previous post applies to this in that it's not your business. Yet you always have to interject with some personal thing at me, when the issue is not me. It's the person who made a violation by disregarding the rules or warnings and was dealt with accordingly (of which YOU yourself have a habit of doing as well).


Originally posted by Jemborg:
At least I can admit to having opinions and also to being wrong...
Having a different opinion doesn't mean that you are wrong. Here is where the issue lies ~ You can have the opinion of the "PSN Sucks" (which is totally fine btw) but if you say, what you would believe to be an opinion (when it's not) in saying "The PSN sucks because it does not have video chat like LIVE!" then that is not an opinion since it is not factual and based off misinformation. I take no issue with opinion. Just baseless unfounded misinformation (especially when it's personally directed at me when one thing has nothing to do with the other).


Originally posted by Jemborg:
Yeah, it's my opinion you've driven away new members. Good ones. You're an utter bully at times. I've reported you for it. (Not when you've tried it with me.) So I guess there is some evidence for it somewhere. Being a moderator doesn't place you above criticism, not when you're joining in on the thread.
This is exactly my point. Your "opinion" is based off no fact. Your comment is not factual and at the same time a direct personal insult at me of which you cannot prove. You cannot make a statement like that and not believe there will be repercussions for such actions. YOU STARTED THIS WHEN YOU MADE BASELESS UNFOUNDED PERSONAL ATTACKS TOWARDS ME of which has nothing to do with the topic, the issue with LissenUp and of which you have no grounds to stand on. If one member attacks, another member there is the violation of which would be justified. That is what you choose to not want to compehend here.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
That above is a common definition of "cherry-picking" and I've had to defend myself from it from you on many occasions, and I've had members PMing me about those occasions. And not the members you think would be either. Heck, you've even done it yourself.

Since I am now being painted with convoluted back-peddling and "protesting too much" (btw, talk myself out of what?)... as to the rest of what you wrote it's a big what-ever then mate. But know this... it's not personal Oner, you may think ("truth") it is, but it's not.
I have explained YOUR issue with what you believe is "cherry-picking" ad nauseum so I will not again. As far as this NOT being personal, then you are clearly not being truthful because just about everything you (and 1 or 2 others here) say about me is a personal insult. Why else do you/others continually bring ME into something that has nothing to do with me? I.E. LissenUp getting banned becomes "Oner is on a power trip" or the "loss <of> quite a few members to his banning spree's (about the "format wars when that is absolutely untrue)" and your own "confuses truth with opinion/driving away members and etc." How is that NOT personal!?!?


Originally posted by Jemborg:
I really wish you had not chosen to blow it all up and just taken it on the chin.
Doesn't work that way. You say outright lies and BS about me I will put you in your place.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
PS: Life's too short anyway and my little boy Gus just turned one yesterday. :)
I truly mean this with no reservations J ~ Congratulations! (Though you may have your hands full as he is a Taurus...just like me ;P)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 May 2011 @ 15:56

504.5.2011 17:19

i believe we all broke rule #8, i mean even a mod has done it.

Hijacking the thread! The nerve of these people.


Powered By

514.5.2011 17:38

The most unhelpful thread i've seen. I'm off!

524.5.2011 19:14

Originally posted by DXR88:
i believe we all broke rule #8, i mean even a mod has done it.

Hijacking the thread! The nerve of these people.
When I am upholding forum rules/warnings while clarifying/defending myself from lissenup4, Schmick, you & Jemborg (I don't take lawndog's questioning/replies as an directed attack on me as he wasn't at all) who all of which started this, I believe a little lee-way is acceptable to make things right.

Originally posted by 2dogsfighting71:
The most unhelpful thread i've seen. I'm off!
Post #46 right above the first time you asked (post #47) has an estimation in his signature. But there is no confirmed answer to your question so maybe that is why you didn't get a reply.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 May 2011 @ 19:17

535.5.2011 8:07

Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88: i believe we all broke rule #8, i mean even a mod has done it.

Hijacking the thread! The nerve of these people.
I havnt had a proper look at the rules in years.common sense usually tells me if something (im about to post) is inappropriate.

lissenup was offending members and personal attacks.he/she tryed to have a go at me in several other topics.honestly not surpised by the ban

there is another thread somewhere in the news section about PSN coming back up for anyone interested.

custom built gaming pc from early 2010,ps2 with 15 games all original,ps3 500gbs with 5 games all original,yamaha amp and 5.1channel surround sound speakers,46inch sony lcd smart tv.

545.5.2011 15:09

Thanks xboxdv12.

555.5.2011 15:15

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i believe we all broke rule #8, i mean even a mod has done it.

Hijacking the thread! The nerve of these people.
When I am upholding forum rules/warnings while clarifying/defending myself from lissenup4, Schmick, you & Jemborg (I don't take lawndog's questioning/replies as an directed attack on me as he wasn't at all) who all of which started this, I believe a little lee-way is acceptable to make things right.

Originally posted by 2dogsfighting71:
The most unhelpful thread i've seen. I'm off!
Post #46 right above the first time you asked (post #47) has an estimation in his signature. But there is no confirmed answer to your question so maybe that is why you didn't get a reply.
Thanks Oner. I'll check out the other thread mentioned above.

566.5.2011 10:31
alexeemo
Inactive

I cancelled my card for PSN and my wife cancelled her card for SOE Wasn't a big deal to do that. Problem is that I do sometimes use the same password for different accounts. I hate having to come up with unique passwords for everything so changing a bunch of my passwords and then having to write them down is what really sucked.


PSN ID alexeemo, Level 10, 484 Trophies and counting

577.5.2011 10:08

Oner, I have to say, YOU have contributed as much or more to hijacking this thread as any of the people you're castigating. Learn to let minor BS drop, howzabouts? If they hate you, fine, LET THEM; you're not going to convince 'em otherwise with an off-topic Wall-O'-Text(tm).

In other words, I think you're being quite oversensitive, which only gives weight to your detractors' comments.[/offtopic]

Contrary to Sony's statements that none of these cards have been known to be used fraudulently yet - in a manner that ties them to the PSN info heist - I've seen several mentions at various news sites (CNN, for one) that several people have already started litigation over exactly that. So, OF COURSE Sony won't admit it, because that would instantly lose those ongoing cases for them. I don't see this as a useful, coming from Sony. Now if the Secret Service/FBI in the US (who actually deal with CC fraud) said the same thing, it'd matter.

587.5.2011 15:39

Originally posted by Bozobub:
Oner, I have to say, YOU have contributed as much or more to hijacking this thread as any of the people you're castigating. Learn to let minor BS drop, howzabouts? If they hate you, fine, LET THEM; you're not going to convince 'em otherwise with an off-topic Wall-O'-Text(tm).

In other words, I think you're being quite oversensitive, which only gives weight to your detractors' comments.[/offtopic]
When in defense it is not hijacking, it is correcting and making things clear to those who question things not of their responsibility here at Afterdawn. This is not something for those that do not know the whole story, to interject what they think is their place to do so. Those who are not moderators (or involved) do not act as one and mind your business. The situation is, was or will be handled without your input. Thank You.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 May 2011 @ 15:42

597.5.2011 21:43

agreed as per forum rules.

607.5.2011 22:07

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Oner, I have to say, YOU have contributed as much or more to hijacking this thread as any of the people you're castigating. Learn to let minor BS drop, howzabouts? If they hate you, fine, LET THEM; you're not going to convince 'em otherwise with an off-topic Wall-O'-Text(tm).

In other words, I think you're being quite oversensitive, which only gives weight to your detractors' comments.[/offtopic]
When in defense it is not hijacking, it is correcting and making things clear to those who question things not of their responsibility here at Afterdawn. This is not something for those that do not know the whole story, to interject what they think is their place to do so. Those who are not moderators (or involved) do not act as one and mind your business. The situation is, was or will be handled without your input. Thank You.
Some people really know sarcasm when they see it, huh Oner.=}

Powered By

617.5.2011 22:56

That's fine, but carrying out your business in public tends to invite comment, you should be aware.

628.5.2011 2:27

My question is if PS3 online service is free then why would Sony have credit card numbers on their server in the first place?

638.5.2011 11:35

Originally posted by SoulReapr:
My question is if PS3 online service is free then why would Sony have credit card numbers on their server in the first place?
....do you even own a PS3? they sell stuff like classic games and DLC on PSN as well.

Powered By

648.5.2011 12:38

What the...?

I'm alive, ALIVE! :D



Er, yeah ok Onerous, I hate you personally and not your behaviour which I am always picking on... happy?

I have no opinions on whether PSN sucks or not I have never used it. As far as I'm concerned Xbox LIVE sucks (lags) from an international point of view (not locally)... if you can tolerate the howling infantiles, that is. Maybe that changed as I have not tried it for years. If not, I can't imagine it's any better for PSN in Australia either. And THAT sucks considering we pay twice as much as Septics for games on either platform. We don't even qualify for a reach-around.

And whatever to the rest mate... I got bored and skipped most of it.


Thanks for the congrats... I had no idea young Gus was a Taurus as I pay no attention to superstitious claptrap. I certainly hope it means he's not gonna be full of bull too. :P



EDIT: Please don't answer, I couldn't cope with the tedium!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 May 2011 @ 12:59

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

658.5.2011 13:56

Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by SoulReapr:
My question is if PS3 online service is free then why would Sony have credit card numbers on their server in the first place?
....do you even own a PS3? they sell stuff like classic games and DLC on PSN as well.
As a matter of fact, No, I do not own any gaming console which is why I didn't know about classic games and DLC. I was asking a simple question and wasn't looking for any sarcasm from anyone. Sorry if I invaded your space Sir DXR88 Senior Member. :]

668.5.2011 19:12

Originally posted by ddp:
agreed as per forum rules.
Thank You again ddp.


Originally posted by Bozobub:
That's fine, but carrying out your business in public tends to invite comment, you should be aware.
I did not bring this out to public. That is where the fault in your comment lies. OTHERS commented about things (just like you are now) about stuff not of their concern, nor business, that needed to be addressed (totally false accusations I might add). I did not have to explain anything. But I chose to do so as to show my side of things that certain people don't seem to want to rationally or reasonably understand as it was not "minor BS" they were serious unfounded false accusations and insults. I don't care who hates me or not. But the moment you speak unfounded/unverifiable lies of me ~ I will check you immediately.


Originally posted by SoulReapr:
My question is if PS3 online service is free then why would Sony have credit card numbers on their server in the first place?

No different from any other service like Amazon, Buy.com, TigerDirect, BestBuy and many thousands of others. Actually DXR88's comment explains another aspect of it as well ~

Originally posted by DXR88:
they sell stuff like classic games and DLC on PSN as well.
So while the service if free (PSN) there are items you can or would like to purchase. Hence no different than a purchase online at any webstore.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
What the...?

I'm alive, ALIVE! :D



Er, yeah ok Onerous, I hate you personally and not your behaviour which I am always picking on... happy?

I have no opinions on whether PSN sucks or not I have never used it. As far as I'm concerned Xbox LIVE sucks (lags) from an international point of view (not locally)... if you can tolerate the howling infantiles, that is. Maybe that changed as I have not tried it for years. If not, I can't imagine it's any better for PSN in Australia either. And THAT sucks considering we pay twice as much as Septics for games on either platform. We don't even qualify for a reach-around. <-- Now that's funny!

And whatever to the rest mate... I got bored and skipped most of it.


Thanks for the congrats... I had no idea young Gus was a Taurus as I pay no attention to superstitious claptrap. I certainly hope it means he's not gonna be full of bull too. :P



EDIT: Please don't answer, I couldn't cope with the tedium!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I will answer to bore you some more ;) and if only to clarify some things to drop this once and for all hopefully.

I did not say YOU have opinions about "PSN sucks" I just used it as an example to show a difference between a personal opinion and false information being upheld as "opinion". Another example ~ Do I think LIVE! sucks? No. Do I think it sucks because of what you described (howling infantiles & lag issues)? Yes, to an extent. But would I be correct in saying my opinion of LIVE! sucks because ALL 360 games have those issues? No I would not be, and that is my reasoning behind the difference of an opinion and a false comment. I hope that is clear enough.

As far as the congrats. You are very welcome, I am sure you want the best for your child in this world and will protect him/do the best for him under any circumstance. I hope/believe he will have the smarts and wit of his father to excel in his future.

If this situation hasn't shown how tolerant (albeit a bit angered) a moderator can be (especially when unjust accusations are wildly thrown out) then I don't know what else there is to say, other than, that we're not here just to ban people for their opinions.

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