AfterDawn: Tech news

Mozilla CEO steps down in gay marriage row

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 03 Apr 2014 19:19 User comments (26)

Mozilla CEO steps down in gay marriage row Brendan Eich has stepped down from the role of chief executive at Mozilla following a considerable backlash to donations he made to the California Proposition 8 campaign in 2008.
After only being in the position of CEO at Mozilla for a number of weeks, internal unrest saw employees publicly call for Eich to resign. The point of contention was Eich's views on marriage equality with his history of opposition to gay marriage.

Former CEOs Gary Kovacs and John Lilly, along with Shmoop CEO Ellen Siminoff, stepped down from the Mozilla board not long after Eich was promoted. They had hoped for an outsider to take over the role, and believed Eich was a liability for Mozilla, its products, services and customers.

Earlier this week, online dating site OkCupid took a strong stance against Mozilla with Eich at the helm, with a letter to users urging them to drop Firefox while he remains chief executive.
"If individuals like Mr. Eich had their way, then roughly 8% of the relationships we've worked so hard to bring about would be illegal. Equality for gay relationships is personally important to many of us here at OkCupid," the letter to Firefox users of OkCupid read.

"Those who seek to deny love and instead enforce misery, shame, and frustration are our enemies, and we wish them nothing but failure."

Brendan Eich's anti-gay marriage activities

In March, 2012, a donation made by Eich toward an anti-gay marriage campaign came to light. He had donated $1,000 to the campaign in favour of passing California Proposition 8 - to outlaw gay marriage in the state - while identifying his employer as Mozilla Corporation.

The revelation came as a surprise to many in the tech sphere, and provoked outrage in the media and on social media. As time went on, the issue died down until Eich was promoted to chief executive at Mozilla.

In response to the re-kindling flames, Mozilla reached out to users in late-March, re-affirming its commitment to marriage equality and LGBT equality.

The opposition only got louder and on Thursday, April 3, Brendan Eich officially stepped down from the role as CEO of Mozilla.

Mozilla's comments on Eich stepping down

The following was written by Mitchell Baker, Executive Chairwoman, Mozilla.

Mozilla prides itself on being held to a different standard and, this past week, we didn't live up to it. We know why people are hurt and angry, and they are right: it's because we haven't stayed true to ourselves.

We didn't act like you'd expect Mozilla to act. We didn't move fast enough to engage with people once the controversy started. We're sorry. We must do better.

Brendan Eich has chosen to step down from his role as CEO. He's made this decision for Mozilla and our community.

Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard.

Our organizational culture reflects diversity and inclusiveness. We welcome contributions from everyone regardless of age, culture, ethnicity, gender, gender-identity, language, race, sexual orientation, geographical location and religious views. Mozilla supports equality for all.

We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public. This is meant to distinguish Mozilla from most organizations and hold us to a higher standard. But this time we failed to listen, to engage, and to be guided by our community.

While painful, the events of the last week show exactly why we need the web. So all of us can engage freely in the tough conversations we need to make the world better.

We need to put our focus back on protecting that Web. And doing so in a way that will make you proud to support Mozilla.

What's next for Mozilla's leadership is still being discussed. We want to be open about where we are in deciding the future of the organization and will have more information next week. However, our mission will always be to make the Web more open so that humanity is stronger, more inclusive and more just: that's what it means to protect the open Web.

We will emerge from this with a renewed understanding and humility -- our large, global, and diverse community is what makes Mozilla special, and what will help us fulfill our mission. We are stronger with you involved.

Thank you for sticking with us.

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26 user comments

13.4.2014 19:26

Thought police strike again, to what point will this end?


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23.4.2014 22:23

Thought police? No one said he couldn't think foolishly. They simply said they won't use his services and actively lobby against him. He can still think as outdated and silly as he wishes.


Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S.T.

33.4.2014 22:42

Originally posted by Burnasty:
Thought police? No one said he couldn't think foolishly. They simply said they won't use his services and actively lobby against him. He can still think as outdated and silly as he wishes.

Is this supposed to be sarcastic?

44.4.2014 1:36

Originally posted by WW3:
Thought police strike again, to what point will this end?

The man's (despicable) actions were what got him in hot water, not his thoughts or opinions.

If this was meant to be funny, good one.


54.4.2014 4:15

Originally posted by nintenut:
The man's (despicable) actions were what got him in hot water, not his thoughts or opinions.

Repaying one 'despicable' act with another doesn't improve a situation. I'm part of minority that occasionally wins me abuse from people on the street who are perfectly amicable at their place of work. I don't go around trying to oust them from their jobs; it would be wrong because they keep their personal beliefs separate from their work.

It's easy to fall into the trap of becoming hateful over what we consider to be intolerant behavior. But then we become the very thing we hate, and risk turning into the oppressors. Hypocrisy is easy to see unless it's staring you in the mirror.

64.4.2014 4:45

Originally posted by nonoitall:
Originally posted by nintenut:
The man's (despicable) actions were what got him in hot water, not his thoughts or opinions.

Repaying one 'despicable' act with another doesn't improve a situation. I'm part of minority that occasionally wins me abuse from people on the street who are perfectly amicable at their place of work. I don't go around trying to oust them from their jobs; it would be wrong because they keep their personal beliefs separate from their work.

It's easy to fall into the trap of becoming hateful over what we consider to be intolerant behavior. But then we become the very thing we hate, and risk turning into the oppressors. Hypocrisy is easy to see unless it's staring you in the mirror.
Eich wasn't fired, he voluntarily stepped down from his brief position as the face of a company - and rightfully so.

Calling someone out on something terrible they've done is not oppression. Pointing out that those actions had negative repurccussions on a company's customers is not oppression. Pulling support from a company because its new face did something terrible is not oppression.

Propositon 8 was oppression.


74.4.2014 11:35

Thought police strike again, to what point will this end?

Quote:

At the point when people stop trying to limit the rights of other U.S. citizens.

84.4.2014 11:42

Originally posted by nonoitall:
Originally posted by nintenut:
The man's (despicable) actions were what got him in hot water, not his thoughts or opinions.

Repaying one 'despicable' act with another doesn't improve a situation. I'm part of minority that occasionally wins me abuse from people on the street who are perfectly amicable at their place of work. I don't go around trying to oust them from their jobs; it would be wrong because they keep their personal beliefs separate from their work.

It's easy to fall into the trap of becoming hateful over what we consider to be intolerant behavior. But then we become the very thing we hate, and risk turning into the oppressors. Hypocrisy is easy to see unless it's staring you in the mirror.
Conservatives always dredge up the word "hateful" when referring to attempts to make other conservatives responsible for their words and actions. It doesn't matter that THEIR actions are designed to deprive an entire segment of the population of their right to "pursue happiness". These same intolerant bozos used to complain that gay men were profligate and didn't stay in lasting relationships. Now when the try to, they are told they can't. You must be SO proud.

94.4.2014 17:58

Originally posted by rbi149:
These same intolerant bozos [..]
Originally posted by rbi149:
At the point when people stop trying to limit the rights of other U.S. citizens.
^^ It's not in the U.S., this is a world-wide (modern-day ?) epidemic; at least someone is recognizing that *something* has to be done in order to try and control/oppose this kind of behavior (if that's even possible :))

When people publicly claim equality ("re-affirming its commitment to marriage equality and LGBT equality"), when they're clearly not equal (on so many levels), then it just gets ridiculous. :-/
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Apr 2014 @ 18:00

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104.4.2014 20:13

Quote:
Calling someone out on something terrible they've done is not oppression. Pointing out that those actions had negative repurccussions on a company's customers is not oppression. Pulling support from a company because its new face did something terrible is not oppression.
I'd say a person losing the position they earned on their own merits for reasons they keep separate from work is a very "terrible", "negative" thing as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There was a missed opportunity here. A group who felt wronged by an (ultimately overthrown) proposal had a chance to show the same professionalism in the workplace and tolerance that they ask for. Instead, a grudge has been held.

Originally posted by rbi149:
Conservatives always dredge up the word "hateful" when referring to attempts to make other conservatives responsible for their words and actions. It doesn't matter that THEIR actions are designed to deprive an entire segment of the population of their right to "pursue happiness". These same intolerant bozos used to complain that gay men were profligate and didn't stay in lasting relationships. Now when the try to, they are told they can't. You must be SO proud.
Are you suggesting that my promotion of tolerance means that I disrespect or have acted against LBGT people? Nothing could be further from the truth. I think all people have a right to respect and dignity, no matter what they believe or how they live their lives. LBGT people are people. Mr. Eich is people. My point is that tolerance isn't really tolerance if we only apply it to people whose opinions we like.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Apr 2014 @ 20:15

114.4.2014 20:15

Originally posted by WW3:
Thought police strike again, to what point will this end?
Quote:
At the point when people stop trying to limit the rights of other U.S. citizens.
Honestly, I don't give a damn what people do alone, who cares (as I stated in the previous article) but when others start to try to take full on control of people in order to punish them for something not even related as seen here, then I have a problem.

Classic liberalism (libertarianism), freedom for all.

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124.4.2014 22:24

It seems a very troubling trend that if you believe in a male/female family unit....YOU are the one that is labeled as a "hater"! That is complete CRAP!

I believe in a female/ male family unit...no I do not hate anyone that is gay or lesbian, but I do not believe in that lifestyle. I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not.

To me, some of the people who are for gay marriage, are acting just as bad as those that say they are against it....why? Because they try to evoke the every same tactics that they say they are against!

Now, because it is politically correct, you have companies doing the exact same thing, as well as the US Government.

They SAY that they are against "inequality" or "hatred" , but it is that very same inequality and hatred that they show to people against their beliefs!

They cannot have it both ways....either they can be against inequality in ANY FORM, or they are just supporting the "side" they are on! So which is it? It cannot be both!

Either you are for showing equality to people who are on either side of the fence ....or you are not! But DON'T be a hypocryte and say you believe in equality for all.... when all it really is, is a veil of hate for the oppostion to your side and support of the side you are on!

If the only side that is right is "your" side, then there is no room for discussion.

Tolerance has to be for all or it is not tolerance.

134.4.2014 22:31

Originally posted by nonoitall:
Quote:
Calling someone out on something terrible they've done is not oppression. Pointing out that those actions had negative repurccussions on a company's customers is not oppression. Pulling support from a company because its new face did something terrible is not oppression.
I'd say a person losing the position they earned on their own merits for reasons they keep separate from work is a very "terrible", "negative" thing as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You keep framing this as if Eich were fired, or forced to do something. When a CEO voluntarily steps down, he does so voluntarily. I'm not sure if you missed that, but it's important.

Yes, people called for a man who had an active role in state-wide bigotry to step down from his position as the head of a company which regularly toots its horn on issues of equality. Imagine that.

Originally posted by nonoitall:
There was a missed opportunity here. A group who felt wronged by an (ultimately overthrown) proposal had a chance to show the same professionalism in the workplace and tolerance that they ask for. Instead, a grudge has been held.

Clever of you to lump the whole of the LGBT community into a singular entity, and then make it seem like only it was upset by this. And to make Prop 8 seem like like it was no big deal.
Also, I don't think most, if any, of Eich's detractors were lobbying for his abdication "at the workplace," so I'm not sure why you're trying to draw an equivalence. Regardless, I appreciate the absurdity.

Originally posted by nonoitall:
Originally posted by rbi149:
Conservatives always dredge up the word "hateful" when referring to attempts to make other conservatives responsible for their words and actions. It doesn't matter that THEIR actions are designed to deprive an entire segment of the population of their right to "pursue happiness". These same intolerant bozos used to complain that gay men were profligate and didn't stay in lasting relationships. Now when the try to, they are told they can't. You must be SO proud.
Are you suggesting that my promotion of tolerance means that I disrespect or have acted against LBGT people? Nothing could be further from the truth. I think all people have a right to respect and dignity, no matter what they believe or how they live their lives. LBGT people are people. Mr. Eich is people. My point is that tolerance isn't really tolerance if we only apply it to people whose opinions we like.

Once more I'll state this: actions, not opinions.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Apr 2014 @ 22:49


145.4.2014 0:02

Originally posted by nintenut:
You keep framing this as if Eich were fired, or forced to do something. When a CEO voluntarily steps down, he does so voluntarily.
Seems to me he did the only thing a good leader could do: Preserve the peace. It's just sad that some people couldn't allow him to do that without sacrificing the position he earned.

Originally posted by nintenut:
Clever of you to lump the whole of the LGBT community into a singular entity, and then make it seem like only it was upset by this. And to make Prop 8 seem like like it was no big deal.
Also, I don't think most, if any, of Eich's detractors were lobbying for his abdication "at the workplace," so I'm not sure why you're trying to draw an equivalence. Regardless, I appreciate the absurdity.
Clever of you to accuse me of doing something I did not do. Can you point out to me where I said Prop 8 was not a big deal? Or where I said the whole of the LGBT community was upset with his being CEO and only LGBTs are upset? Actually, I've seen a few comments from gay people about this topic and they were troubled that he was pressured out of his position.

Originally posted by nintenut:
Once more I'll state this: actions, not opinions.
Okay...
Originally posted by nonoitall:
My point is that tolerance isn't really tolerance if we only apply it to people whose opinions or actions we like.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Apr 2014 @ 0:02

155.4.2014 4:17

Ok so here we go again with this mess. Someone gives money to a cause they believe in. What business is that of anyone else. I personally agree that 2 homosexuals fondling each others penis and placing it in their mouths and butts is wrong and disgusting. If you think about what is really going on here i think you would agree that this is actually disgusting. Now before any of you start on the hate mongering speech. I do not advocate treating Homosexuals badly I believe they should be treated with kindness and love however they do not want that from us they want us to say that what they do is ok and a good thing . I will never say its OK just as i would never personally attack a homosexual. BTW the word GAY means happy not homosexual,. this is someones idea to make it more appealing and look its working.

165.4.2014 7:01

If the thought of two men or two women having sex together bothers you, why do you keep thinking about it so much?

Also, why is it that so many think "homosexual" means 2+ men together and seemingly ignore 2+ women together...and that multiple women together in 'straight' porn is a 'normal' occurrence? That's called hypocrisy...you're soaking in it!

As far as you know, some of your favorite family members, close friends or others you respect are smearing feces on each other for sexual enjoyment, and a large percentage of people have some other kind of sexual thrill you'd probably find too kinky or disgusting, so why not let whoever do whatever they want with whoever else as long as they aren't hurting them (without permission)?

175.4.2014 7:45

Originally posted by joebloe12:
It seems a very troubling trend that if you believe in a male/female family unit....YOU are the one that is labeled as a "hater"! That is complete CRAP!

I believe in a female/ male family unit...no I do not hate anyone that is gay or lesbian, but I do not believe in that lifestyle. I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not.

To me, some of the people who are for gay marriage, are acting just as bad as those that say they are against it....why? Because they try to evoke the every same tactics that they say they are against!

Now, because it is politically correct, you have companies doing the exact same thing, as well as the US Government.

They SAY that they are against "inequality" or "hatred" , but it is that very same inequality and hatred that they show to people against their beliefs!

They cannot have it both ways....either they can be against inequality in ANY FORM, or they are just supporting the "side" they are on! So which is it? It cannot be both!

Either you are for showing equality to people who are on either side of the fence ....or you are not! But DON'T be a hypocryte and say you believe in equality for all.... when all it really is, is a veil of hate for the oppostion to your side and support of the side you are on!

If the only side that is right is "your" side, then there is no room for discussion.

Tolerance has to be for all or it is not tolerance.



Originally posted by mugs:
Ok so here we go again with this mess. Someone gives money to a cause they believe in. What business is that of anyone else. I personally agree that 2 homosexuals fondling each others penis and placing it in their mouths and butts is wrong and disgusting. If you think about what is really going on here i think you would agree that this is actually disgusting. Now before any of you start on the hate mongering speech. I do not advocate treating Homosexuals badly I believe they should be treated with kindness and love however they do not want that from us they want us to say that what they do is ok and a good thing . I will never say its OK just as i would never personally attack a homosexual. BTW the word GAY means happy not homosexual,. this is someones idea to make it more appealing and look its working.
Hurrah! Someone with a bit of common sense and a basic knowledge of biology and the natural function of body parts surfaces! This is not about tolerance. This is about speech and thought control. As you note, it starts with even the terminology. We get "gay" marriage instead of homosexual marriage because "gay" is a soft fuzzy term and does not immediately connote the biologically absurd acts that "homosexual" connotes. Someone wants to engage in those acts with a consenting adult partner...OK, strange but their own business. Drag it out into public and try get it accepted and sanctioned on par with time-honored male-female relationships...that is the launch of a culture war. If this was just about creating a legal standing for some relationships between individuals outside of marriage that would be one thing and, frankly, quite OK, but this is perversion of an existing age-old institution and it is simply wrong and destructive of the institution and the culture.

nopcbs

185.4.2014 9:28

I have read enough of this nonsense about the word “marriage”. Straight people want their marriage to be distinguished from that of same sex marriage. We feel that same sex marriage tarnishes our religious belief of what marriage is/was supposed to be about. So I propose that if the gays want to use the word “marriage” and redefine it then the heterosexual marriages should be renamed to something else. They can have that word and we can use another one that distinguishes our different beliefs in what marriage is about. But I am sure as I am writing this response that the gays will come after whatever word we come up with too to define their relationship also. When you talk about hatred, I can think of no greater hatred then gays going after and banding together to force someone out that doesn’t believe in their agenda. A straight person contributes to a cause he believes in and OkCupid writes:
"Those who seek to deny love and instead enforce misery, shame, and frustration are our enemies, and we wish them nothing but failure."
REALLY?
Deny love – enforce misery, shame and frustration? OMG! You’ve got to be kidding me! Talk about drama Queens! and we wish them nothing but failure." You really want to talk about hatred? Nobody that I know wants anybody to fail or to fall out of love or enforce misery. You try to come up with a certain imagine of a person who does not think the same way you do. That image is usually evil. I am apprehensive about even replying because I will now and forever be accused of being a hate monger or homophobic and detestable in your sight.

195.4.2014 18:25

The Aztecs just to be kill all the homos 'cos they was NO good to became warriors. As the Mayas just to be encourage youngsters to be homos & prepare themselves for adulthood marriage between a man & a woman !?
I don't know about the Mayas thinking (Paying more attention to astronomy & rainbows in the sky, than morals). But I'm with the Aztecs: Kill-them all !!!

BUT in the another hand:
We have Govt's. & "Religious" authorities that consider Homosexuality morally offensive and challenge control over their own people. In spacial now that the Gay, etc. want equal rights as the straight people.
Should we have: Marriage Type I, Marriage Type II and so on. So we know the diff. between people moral leakages !?

BUT even so:
This make the whole things worse, 'cos now we face the Constitution Laws that rule any country for the benefice & control of the few over the masses.
Also against freedom of speech & human rights, etc.

At the end of the show:
Just let the homos be what they are, do what they do, etc. and the less control Govt's. & "Church" have over them..... lets control over all of us. lol

Also: as Diversity gets bigger; racism shrink ...too.
A very good sign for the majority of the whole world, and NO so great for the Nazi's, KKK's, etc. minority.

Just saying.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Apr 2014 @ 15:25

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2011.4.2014 4:23

Originally posted by nintenut:
Originally posted by nonoitall:
Originally posted by nintenut:
The man's (despicable) actions were what got him in hot water, not his thoughts or opinions.

Repaying one 'despicable' act with another doesn't improve a situation. I'm part of minority that occasionally wins me abuse from people on the street who are perfectly amicable at their place of work. I don't go around trying to oust them from their jobs; it would be wrong because they keep their personal beliefs separate from their work.

It's easy to fall into the trap of becoming hateful over what we consider to be intolerant behavior. But then we become the very thing we hate, and risk turning into the oppressors. Hypocrisy is easy to see unless it's staring you in the mirror.
Eich wasn't fired, he voluntarily stepped down from his brief position as the face of a company - and rightfully so.

Calling someone out on something terrible they've done is not oppression. Pointing out that those actions had negative repurccussions on a company's customers is not oppression. Pulling support from a company because its new face did something terrible is not oppression.

Propositon 8 was oppression.
He supported something he believed in whats so terrible about that? I believe the homosexual Nazis are bad trying to force everyone to not only accept them but to also accept what they do as a common and natural act which is certainly not.

An eye for an eye will makes us all blind. "Mahatma Ghandi"

2111.4.2014 11:29

Originally posted by mugs:
He supported something he believed in whats so terrible about that? I believe the homosexual Nazis are bad trying to force everyone to not only accept them but to also accept what they do as a common and natural act which is certainly not.
I'm betting you don't think driving a car or using a computer is a natural act either. Be honest...you read a book that said being gay is a terrible sin that makes god mad, and you want to impose your religious views on others in a country with separation of church and state. That book also justified mass murder, rape, and slavery...would you try to legalize these things so long as the rape was for procreation, the murderer claimed to be killing on behalf of god, and the slaves were from nearby nations? If not, where do you draw the line?


2214.4.2014 4:34

First of all let me just say that i dont understand what you mean about driving a car or using a computer what do either of those have to do with the subject at hand ? Secondly I would like for you to show me a scripture where it says Rape is acceptable. I dont believe you can because just as you accuse me of being blinded by the Bible you have more than likely not read it or at the very least not understood the intent when you did read and were just cherry picking verses to prove a point. Slavery was a part of the times in those days and if you study ancient times you would see that was the case. The bible did teach them to be subject to their slave masters and i would say thats pretty good advice as it kept them from some rather horrible consequences. When we think of slavery we think of it as we know it which was actually much different in most case the "Slaves of those days were that way for a number of reasons. I will not go into a history lesson for you today but do a little reading on the subject. The slavery that was forced upon people here in the US and in other places was completely different and cruel. As for the bible being the only source for contradicting homosexual behavior all you have to do is look around at nature. This is something that was never intended to be men cannot have children by themselves as women cannot have children by them selves. It takes one of each. The idea that sex is only for your pleasure is one of the reasons we are in the shape we are in today. While sex is indeed pleasurable its main objective was to procreate. As with most things that are pleasurable man has taken this thing of beauty and made it into something abhorrent. I will pray that GOD opens your eyes so that you may see the truth and by so doing you may come to know him.

2314.4.2014 5:27

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by mugs:
He supported something he believed in whats so terrible about that? I believe the homosexual Nazis are bad trying to force everyone to not only accept them but to also accept what they do as a common and natural act which is certainly not.
I'm betting you don't think driving a car or using a computer is a natural act either. Be honest...you read a book that said being gay is a terrible sin that makes god mad, and you want to impose your religious views on others in a country with separation of church and state. That book also justified mass murder, rape, and slavery...would you try to legalize these things so long as the rape was for procreation, the murderer claimed to be killing on behalf of god, and the slaves were from nearby nations? If not, where do you draw the line?
i actually agree with mugs,the man thought gay marriage was wrong and objected to it the man is human and entitled to his opinion even if others don't agree.
People don't kill in the name of god anymore they kill in the name of the army and go on peace keeping missions with armoured vehicles & high powered assault rifles.I'm sure the army could justify mass murder through out history.
Rape use to be legal as long as you were married to the person,I'm not saying its right but it was legal.
Slavery is still legal in some parts,technically its not slavery but some countries people work for minimum wage and do what there told,(look up saudi arabia women working as maids).

btw i'm not religious but i do handpick the bible when people start saying god is love religion is love to show them how cruel and evil god truly was.Apparently the bible is 1 of the most brutal,shocking,barbaric stories ever written.

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2414.4.2014 6:56

xboxdvl2 (Mister senor member)you need to get out of Genesis! Most people have not read the Bible ALL the way through always feels the same as you about the Bible and God. But...if you read the whole Bible you will not feel the same way. Anyone who has read ALL the Bible knows better and can tell immediately that you haven't. This is the number one problem we have discussing the Bible. We invariably are discussing it with people who have not read it or understand it. Trust me it is a very hard read. You might as well say the United States was the most brutal, shocking, barbaric country in the world to go after Hitler. That is what you might think if you didn't know all the facts. Please read Bible all the way through and attend Bible classes or lessons or church to help you understand what you are reading. Try not to take anymore parts of the Bible out of context...again. To people who have read the Bible, we all know you haven't read it completely and if you did then we know you haven't understood what you've read. If you need any help just ask. I certainly don't know it 100% but I can get the answers for you with love and understanding that you know not what you say.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Apr 2014 @ 6:58

2514.4.2014 16:04

my problem isn't with the army killing hitler (he was an evil man and deserved to die).My problem is the things like chemical warfare,nuclear bombs and the torture or death or suffering of thousands of innocent people and its excused by the world or justified as some would call it. i have family who has served in the army and 1 relative who is dying due to exposure to chemical warfare.People sign up to the army to make the world a better place yet most of them end up emotionally and physically unstable & unable to live a normal life.Its not just the US army, they just seem to be the main ones in control.

Quote:
btw i'm not religious
i have no interest or intention to read or understand the bible,religious discussion is not meant to happen on this forum only reason i mentioned it is because soon as someone had an objection to gay marriage everyone seems to label them a bible basher/pusher.

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2614.4.2014 18:27

[b]xboxdvl2
you just wrote:I have no interest or intention to read or understand the bible, religious discussion is not meant to happen on this forum only reason i mentioned it is because soon as someone had an objection to gay marriage everyone seems to label them a bible basher/pusher.

And finally my point (Mr. Senior Member)is that for someone who has not nor has any intention of reading the Bible to use this forum to tell the world that "Apparently the Bible is 1 of the most brutal, shocking, barbaric stories ever written" is totally off the mark! That is why I say read it. You owe it to yourself to educate yourself about a subject you feel the need to slander. Now I really don't want to turn this into a religious discussion either. What the gay community has done and is doing is coming down as hard as they can to destroy anyone in their way to get the world to accept their lifestyle. If you even whisper you are against same sex marriage, prepare yourself for the onslaught of hate monger and homophobe or whatever. The sad thing about all of this is that the mainstream media has jumped on their bandwagon "Publicly" and it is the new "acceptance" for this generation( like long hair and pot smoking was in previous ones. We will all survive the same sex marriage but we will all still have our own personal opinions about it too. The sun will still rise tomorrow. I am also sure that Brendan Eich will fall squarely back on his feet too. After all he was not fired he left voluntarily. He probably was thinking to himself I don't need this crap nor do I have to even deal with it. I am who I am and will STILL do what I want to do. If running Mozilla is all about making all the gays happy then you can have it. Trust me it isn't worth it. I have a much higher authority I answer to.

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