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Why all the fuss about Star Wars piracy?

Written by James Delahunty @ 20 May 2005 6:49 User comments (95)

Why all the fuss about Star Wars piracy? This week, one of the biggest and most anticipated movies of the year opened in theatres all over the world. Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith showed millions of fans finally how Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader and is packed with tonnes of special effects and action scenes. News coverage on TV stations, in newspapers and on the Internet covered the opening of the movie very well but suddenly the focus has gone off the movie and on to an occurrence that happens much more regularly.
On Wednesday night, a copy of the new star wars movie appeared on the Internet and spread like wild fire (as one would expect). It is a full Workprint copy of the movie featuring two massive timers on the top of the video. The fact that this is a workprint means that this originally must have come from "inside". This was not made by someone with a concealed camcorder in a movie theatre. My question is simply; why would the media make such a fuss about this?

I think it is safe to say that most major movies appear on the Internet within days of its release in movie theatres. Cam and Telesync copies of movies are not rare and I'm sure you've seen the ad's at your local cinema warning you not to copy the movie from the screen with a camcorder, or face the consequences. The MPAA has condemned the individuals responsible for these copies but they need to look a lot closer to home to find the ones responsible for the Star Wars copy.

In September 2003, AT&T Labs published a study that basically told the MPAA to "stop leaking your own movies", blaming industry insiders for a huge majority of movies that appear online before they appear in theatres. Perhaps the Star Wars copy would have never appeared online at all if more care had been taken? "There is no better example of how theft dims the magic of the movies for everyone than this report today regarding BitTorrent providing users with illegal copies of 'Revenge of the Sith'," MPAA president Dan Glickman said.

While copies of Revenge of the Sith are in fact available to download on BitTorrent sites, they did not originally source on a BitTorrent tracker, regardless of what Glickman believes. One has to wonder why the focus is immediately put on to the people (the star wars fans) who are downloading and sharing this copy of the movie with each other, and not on the industry insider who is responsible for the leak in the first place or the pirate on the street selling the movie. This copy probably was picked up on the street before it was even put on the Internet.

There is no charge to download and share the movie on the Internet, whereas on the street you will have to pay for it. Nobody on the Internet sharing this movie is making money from it, and nobody who was responsible for releasing it in the first place is making any money from it, it’s a hobby more than anything else to these groups who compete with each other to make major releases like this. It is also quite interesting to see how many of the sharers would not even think of watching this workprint copy of the movie before seeing it on a big screen first.

I had a look over a few forums and read some live conversations on IRC channels and the general attitude was that the quality isn't good enough for such a movie for a first time viewing, but will do perfectly for viewing after seeing it properly until it's released on DVD. In fact, many people are seeing this as a sort of "collector’s item". The fact that it’s a workprint copy still including its original timers really gives some star wars fans reason to hold onto a copy of it(maybe they feel some kind of "magic" about it just to have it like people do with bootleg copies of their favourite artist's music), whether or not they buy the retail DVD later.

A very good example of how leaked movies become collector’s items is Apocalypse Now. A workprint copy of this excellent movie appeared online many years after its filming. In January 2004 a workprint copy of the movie appeared online, a massive 289 minutes long; 6 SVCDs in total. It was a rough copy that the director had put together and included some never before seen stuff. For movies fans, this was huge, as it’s the only print that ever leaked so you can see why it could be seen as a collector’s item, even though it apparently had terrible quality.

To sum this all up, the media is paying too much attention to the star wars leak and the movie industry needs to start pointing the fingers at its own people instead of P2P users/developers. If the media reported on every leak of a major movie, it is all we would ever read. However, in many countries in the world downloading movies is illegal, even if you have seen it in theatres already simply because the movie studios are not compensated for it but in some countries it is legal to download.

However, in my own personal opinion, I don't see how this leak has taken any "magic" at all from the movie. It is most likely that some revenue will be lost because of it, but this time, the finger should be pointed at the media that made such a huge fuss over such a regular thing and simply alerted the general public that the leaked copy existed and even explained in some cases how easy it was to download.

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95 user comments

120.5.2005 19:07

star wars was unbelievable! i was so close to crying :[ yes, i was one of the nerds who stood in line for 12 hours, but it was worth every minute

220.5.2005 19:28

I am watching it next week, to avoid the volanic rush of Star War fans. =D People are making a big fuss about piracy because from the trailers (and now the movie), you can see the amount of effort that Lucas Arts and co have put in. The special effects look incredibly jaw dropping. Due to this effort, many people think "don't pirate this one.. watch it in the cinema instead." Obviously they don't realise that those who are pirating the video don't really give a damn. And it is one of the most highly anticipated if not THE most anticipated movie of the decade.

320.5.2005 19:33

The movie was awesome, much better than EP1 and EP2.

420.5.2005 19:41

Have yet to see this movie, I will soon though. But, I just have to say one thing. Many warez groups (despite what people think) have a reward system (dunno how they work exactly) for people that provide them with pre-retal and other stuff such as this release. Funny that the MPAA/RIAA hasn't caught on to this yet....

520.5.2005 19:44

That workprint is crap. I'll just wait because I'm not gonna ruin my first time seeing the movie with those huge ass timers. And i'm not a big enough fan to fight with some guy dressed as Darth Vader, in a line. I can picture it now, he pulls out his plastic lightsaber and starts wacking me...LOL. :D

620.5.2005 19:55

just kick him between the legs & he'll stop whacking you with the light sabre as he has more pressing needs!!!

720.5.2005 21:38

regardless of the possible copies on the internet, Fans of the Force are still going to spend lots of money seeing this movie over and over again in the theaters and still purchase the dvd when it is finally released.There is still nothing that can compare to the vision of seeing this type of film on the big screen.Why the studio's waste their time and money on this type of piracy is just silly!

820.5.2005 23:05


920.5.2005 23:11

The industry does allows these release so that they can go to all the torrent sites count the S/L and say "waaaa waaaaa look how much money we lost"

1020.5.2005 23:46

I see we have alot of star wars fanatics in the house, personally I dont see what the big deal is with the whole star wars story or whatever, I guess whatever floats your boat, but I dont like star wars and I couldn't care less about this release or any future star wars releases......I am truly sorry if I offended any Obi Wans out there.

1121.5.2005 00:42

"money money money, money money money" is all they care and think about. saying stupid crap like "its illegal, its evil, it dims the 'magic', its the p2p and bit torrent users' fault, its stealing" is only trying to put guilt and shame on people so that if they do download a copy of that workprint, they will feel guilt for doing so, and somehow end up putting money into their pockets to atone for the 'sin', like watching it at the cinemas for example. its just another way of getting that money they claim that's being stolen. its just another way to get the money, which is all they care about.

1221.5.2005 00:44

minus that last sentence in my last post

1321.5.2005 01:19

Stupid crap like it's illegal?? end of the day bottom line it is illegal same as anything else you want it you like it buy it simple really. Not released yet go to the cinema then wait for the dvd release then buy it. You can't really blame the industry for complaining about piracy you make something you want to see a return supply and demand, but there are always people who will try and get something for nothing i suppose sad really.

Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

1421.5.2005 01:37

Doofy, illegal for who? I could download that movie very legally if I wanted to in my country. Dan G is just full of shit.

1521.5.2005 01:50

Well, I just watched it in the comfort of my abode. ( on DVD, but of course!!) It's over. I finally have some closure. I just wonder if old man Lucas will be around for VII,VIII, and IX? LOL Weycraze

...a mind is a terrible thing to waste...

1621.5.2005 05:56

wow...i watched this last night. about half hour of a damn good movie..apart from the hell can ppl say its better tan ep 1 & 2?its a mish mash of scenes, it doenst flow, and takes the glory away form the 'twists' in the original trilogy...and does it so badly. obi wan/anaikin fight: amazing. unveiling of sidious: amazing they were the only great bits of the entire film. the rest was jsut as bad as episode 1 & 2. sorry to all the geeks for this, i considered myself a geek too...but at least i can say something is a let down when i see it and not say its great because its the last new film i'll probably ever see of the star wars franchise. sorry. alot of ppl may be pissed with my was awful. and now...move on with ur lives. I hope to god lucas stays away from eps 7, 8 & 9. flogging a dead horse, he would be. :)

1721.5.2005 06:44

"Doofy, illegal for who? I could download that movie very legally if I wanted to in my country. Dan G is just full of shit." There is no way was this workprint released legally so i dont care what country you are in. It is illegal period, we could argue the rights and wrongs forever but at the end of the day the law states it is illegal and we all have to in theory anyway abide by the law. You want to watch it pay to see it, you want to own a copy pay for it simple as.....

1821.5.2005 06:56

Did you ever consider Mr. Lucas "leaked" the film himself? What better PR could you ask for! I am not a Star Wars fan and would never spend 12 hrs. in line waiting for anything however I did dl the WP and after watching it I will definately go see it in the theaters (after the crowds die down). Wouldn't it be nice if ALL movies were distributed this way...release it in decent quality to the P2P's first...if the movie is worth a damn then we'd go pay to see it on the big screen...that would be too easy however. How many would have paid to see "White Chicks" at the movies if they saw it first on their computer...LOL. My point is, and was proven by a 50 mil first day take at the box office, if the MPAA would produce quality entertainment then they would have no fear of P2P. They could utilize it as a marketing tool. For this file sharer, I would have never gone to seen Star Wars had it not been for the "leaked" version I saw on the internet. Those bastards have tricked me into going and spending $9 on a ticket after all...LMAO.

1921.5.2005 07:10

It would not matter if they produced quality entertainment proven fact you could reduce the price to next to nothing and it would still br pirated. and no not everyone would go to see it on the big screen if they have already seen it. The entire point is it is in the the majority of casesa downright illegal and no amount of trying to justify it is gonna make it legal.

2021.5.2005 07:42

Thx Doofy... I think we all know where you stand on it. In a couple of years when the laws catch up with technology, when big business realizes they can make a buck off P2P, when you are the head of the MPAA legal team, and they release all of us pirates from prison on reversal, we'll remember you telling us how wrong we were. If anyone has ethical questions as to right and wrong I'll send them to you...

2121.5.2005 07:59

The only reason the pirated copies of Episode III are making the news is because it is Episode III. It will make a lot of money, so, any bit of piracy will cause some bit of money to be lost somewhere. The larger the pot, the larger the loss. Plus, the "cultural" impact anything Star Wars makes, however overblown or idiotic it may be ;) just adds to the "news" "impact."

2221.5.2005 08:45

Thank you wannabe mod whenn the laws catch up with the P2p technology the piracy will still be as bad as it is now, carry on trying to justify it theft is theft. I really dont care what you think all i said was u like it buy it or pay to see it. think thats simple enough doesnt take much to download anything from P2P, Torrent, usenet or mIRC stop trying to justify waht you are leeching from other people.

2321.5.2005 09:28

You're right Doofy...I repent from my sins...thank you for leading me to salvation. Stop downloading NOW you Philistines...follow Doofy and sin no more!!!

2421.5.2005 10:13

Doofy is my hero. Doofy does no wrong. I wanna be like Doofy.

2521.5.2005 10:15

You all know this, but just for those that don't. There will be 100 hours of Star Wars episodes on TV, lasting 1 hour each, directed either by George Lucas or another well respected director. Who knows? They might cancel the series because of the lack of popularity, or they might decide to do a few hundred more series due to masses of fans. =P I think the latter is more probable. Either way, the Force is still strong.

Everyone is entitled to their own true opinion. Either respect that or don't.

2621.5.2005 10:35

Does no wrong nope cant remember saying that, but i can honestly say every film or piece of software or music cd i own i have bought and paid for. Sorry to dissapoint the wanna be mods around here but no not everyone is like you. Some of us actually think that paying for something you like or want is the right way to go. Over to the trolls once again.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 May 2005 @ 10:37

Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

2721.5.2005 13:25

Let's just say this...I went to see Star Wars # last night with my family. I paid $40.00 to get us in and $20.00 for popcorn and drinks. I watched the first hour of the movie to get the plot and then fell asleep. Not due to fatigue. It was an ok movie from what I seen of it. My husband enjoyed it. Just to think if i would have turned my hubby down and not have went i could of had and extra $51.00 in my pocket this morning. I understand to a degree why some people bootleg movies and to a degree i don't. There are a lot of families out there who cant afford to take their families to the movies. It is expensive. As far as it being leaked out. I use to work for Universal Studios and those numbers are in the picture. So it came from the inside. Maybe they leaked it our for more coverage. The more coverage the more pressure and demand for the public to go see it. After all negitive attention is common for positive results.

2821.5.2005 14:14

Good call. Not that the monetary thing bothers me... It's just that the leaked release is somewhat of a novelty to have. Still haven't downloaded it yet but probably will. I also am going to spend the 50+ dollars to see it in the theaters. One of those moral issues I guess. Doofy, I'm proud of you... you got the golden ticket, and apparently money is not an issue for you. Congrats.

2921.5.2005 14:41

Got absolutely nothing to do with money not being an issue I am the same as everyone else the thing is if i decide soething is worth it then i pay for it that is my choice, i do agree that sometimes things are not worth the money and things are somewhat overpriced and i am on abudget these days just like most other people. But just because soeone cannot afford x product, service etc etc it does not give them the right to steal it no matter how people try to justify it. Going back on topic slightly i dont even like star wars i hate sci fi films... Troll away

3021.5.2005 14:46


3122.5.2005 06:55

saw it last night - awesome. i thoroughly enjoyed it, which was tricky as i was in the front row so couldn't see too well plus cinema was packed with irritating eating noises, rustling and had loada annoying fidgety kids next to me. In the end i used the force to concentrate (plus it was calming to know i was around when the episode 4 first came out, unlike these kids, i dunno - kids today lol!) & i was impressed with the film. Will buy it when it comes out on DVD (which here in ripoff Britain will no doubt be a long, long time after you lot in the US). Will have to find out when it's out in US and find somewhere that imports it. The illegal copies of this one going around i would imagine are either crap quality or if it's got counters somewhere on screen, surely it's not gonna be the complete movie, ie those numbers are when they edit films..

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3222.5.2005 08:02

There is a important fact that everyone have forget: NO ONE IS FORCED TO DOWNLOAD A MOVIE!!! So, if you don't want the movie to lose his "magic", DON'T DOWNLOAD IT! See it on theathers or wait for the DVD instead of downloading a low quality telesync or workprint, or wathever. Anyway, everyone that download a movie through the web knows that there is a huge chance it is low quality, specialy when the movie isn't on DVD yet. So, i say again: if you don't want to lose the film "magic", don't download it! no one is forced to it! So, no one is being "deceived" by the piracy, because te one that download a movie, naturaly don't care if the copy downloaded lacks in quality (normaly, all new releases available on the web are low quality telesync or workprint). So, my point is: The MPAA and the cinema industry is making too much fuss about copying of movies trught the net, forgeting about searching for "in home intelectual property stealing" and also forgeting that no one is being forced to download the movie. The guy who really wants to see and to have a good copy wont be satisfied with a low quality pirate copy. It will see it on theathers anyway an probably buy the DVD anyway. So, they are worring with the wrong point. (sorry for my broken english, but i think that everyone at least got my point, hehehe!)

3322.5.2005 12:34

50 million in first day open... they didnt lose any money, i wouldnt have paid anyway

3422.5.2005 12:36

Anyone who liked the movie enough to want a copy of it will probably buy a copy of it when it comes out on DVD anyway, even if they downloaded it first. I already know I'm buying it when it comes out - heck I'll probably even go to see it in the theater again I liked it so much, but in between now and the time it comes out on DVD (which I've heard won't be until like November, which sucks) I just might need a low-quality copy to keep me going. ;) The MPAA could say I'm evil for thinking that way, but they aren't losing any money at all from me (I can't pay for the movie until they release it) so I can't see what their problem is, accept that they are as greedy as greedy gets and are so terrified that they will lose a few pennies on low-quality copies that they probably won't lose anyway. Dispite recent trends, there are still lots of good movies out there and even a few good new ones still coming out (like SW), but I'll bet that a lot more people would buy them if they didn't feel they were supporting such a greedy organization. Their greedy nature is what loses more sales than piracy, IMO.

3522.5.2005 14:19

Is Doofy gone..... can I say something? Anyway, after reading the whole thread about the Star Wars piracy thing I agree with all of you (except Doofy). But I wanted to add my input too. The film companies are never going to beat us using p2p engines. That's that. Also, we know that they are greedy and that they make multi millions and have yet to help anyone else with the money. They are SO worried about losing the money that they haven't even looked around them....we have a war goin on, (foolish on at that) but they could at least give our guys some help too. Them being greedy and only caring about the almighty dollar in itself will prevent me from helping them out in any way. Put it this way, they would rip you off to make a buck anyday, so why not do it to them? When I see the big companies looking out for the little guy, is the day I but retail stuff! Rant over I don't apologize if I offended anyone! It's the truth! Clownz

3622.5.2005 15:39

The media hasn't made the public fully aware of what a workprint ( even is. This workprint may not even be the exact same finished copy as that people are seeing in cinemas. Personally I don't think the workprint is worth downloading other than for obsessed fans to collect to have an in-production copy. All the other versions of this movie available on-line seem to be from the exact same source. Just encoded differently or with the counter smudged out. Maybe I would download this if it was a really good DVDScreener, Telesync or Telecine. But even then I would only download them after I had gone to see the movie in the cinema first. Obviously if this movie was xxx2 the next level (state of the union, whatever) I would download it in a second. But this is f-king Star Wars! You don't see star wars from a shitty copy! You see it on the big screen with a THX approved sound system (much better than my crappy 2.0 Stereo) and all the other goodies. I saw the last two in the cinema, so I don't see how this time will be any different. However I fully understand why people would rather download it rather then sit in a cinema with little shit kids crapping on the whole movie, mobile phones going off, people scrunching chip bags, slurping on drinks & all the other noises of the cinema. I would much rather the MPAA took their NAZI approach to a quality cinema experience so people actually wanted to go to one (myself included) rather then crying over spilled workprints.

3722.5.2005 17:57

wow applause to the guys who made it a mass download..floating over the net before theatre release, that's crazy. I think George Lucas might want to "beef up" his security lol. I dl the WP today, and I must say although the quality isn't perfect(stupid RT bars)it didn't take away from my viewing pleasure, actually makes me want to go see it in the theatre.

3822.5.2005 19:58

@ Doofy:

Stupid crap like it's illegal?? end of the day bottom line it is illegal same as anything else you want it you like it buy it simple really. Not released yet go to the cinema then wait for the dvd release then buy it. You can't really blame the industry for complaining about piracy you make something you want to see a return supply and demand, but there are always people who will try and get something for nothing i suppose sad really.
Let me clear myself up. I don't download movies before they hit the cinemas. I don't download movies then sell them on the street for 5 bucks US dolloars (because THAT is stealing). And I don't download movies and then share them so people can do the other two things I listed cuz I don't trust them to not sell it. I have only downloaded 3 movies, and that's because I wanted to watch them before I spent money on a ticket, popcorn, and whatever then having the movie end up to be a total suckfest. And for the record, I bought 2 out of the 3 movies I downloaded, so sit down and shut up.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 May 2005 @ 8:03

3922.5.2005 23:04

@D-503 -

The media hasn't made the public fully aware
- too right;l from what i keep reading this workprint was leaked from the inside; don't think we'll see that from the media anytime soon. By then the damage is done as per usual - joe public gets blamed for an insider leak. and
sit in a cinema with little shit kids crapping on the whole movie, mobile phones going off, people scrunching chip bags, slurping on drinks & all the other noises of the cinema. I would much rather the MPAA took their NAZI approach to a quality cinema experience
- this was my own fault for going when all the annoying kids would be there. Nothing against kids, i do like to take my kids to cinema when i can, i just try to keep them quiet (and they are - it's the pre-teens that are most annoying, mine are younger, bless them). Anyway i digress, like usual in life, job public are the ones that suffer in the long run, not the big greedy companies

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4023.5.2005 08:05

Workprints useually appear weeks or months before the movie opens in theatres not 36 hours. I have to be suspicious of the theft of this particular movie because of that. The free press coverage alone is worth more to the studio than the considerably small loss of revenue that they might claim.Lucas is an intelligent man he knows the value of cheap advertizing. Any real Star Wars Fan would want to see this on the big screen not on a TV (It's kinda like a Drive-In from the mid 60s compared to an IMAX.). Even HDTV isn't good enough. I,ve seen this in the theatre, and it's a dissapointment, but still a good movie. And even if I get the opertunity to Download this I'll still buy the DVD when it comes out to complete the series.

4123.5.2005 09:32

Watching it in the theatre is a totally different experience than watching it on your TV or computer. Even if you have a Projector, it's still uncomparable to the cinema. The atmosphere of a GOOD cinema would be annoying kids, someone telling them to shut up, and sitting next to guys that jabber on about this and that. The atmosphere of a WONDERFUL cinema would be everyone enjoying the movie and laughing at the right moments and keeping silent at the fight scenes. For example, if you were to see Sin City in the cinema, your response would be: "WOWOWOWOWOWOW SO AMAZEN LOLOLOL" If you saw it on your TV, it would be: "OMG SUXXXXX" Well, in my opinion anyway, Sin City is a cinema movie for me. =D Same with movies such as The Last Samurai etc. I haven't seen Episode III yet, waiting till next week to avoid the rush, but from the trailers I can tell that it will be a much gorgeous and entertaining experience on the big screen. Therefore if you pirated and liked it, go watch it in the cinema so you like it more. =) (which you are going to do anyway)

Everyone is entitled to their own true opinion. Either respect that or don't.

4223.5.2005 20:31

DRIVE-IN'S!!!!!!!!! I don't go to the theatre. Too expensive. I don't download movies. I prefer to wait for the DVD release. When the theatre's stop robbing us at the concessions, I'll go back. However, I found an alternative that's gaining popularity again. In Phoenix, AZ Drive-in theatre's are the way to go. I bring my own food/drink, relax in my vehicle, tune the radio to the movie frequency and enjoy the movie. If you've got a descent stereo system, the exerience is even better! No unwanted noise from other patrons or children. No moving to let someone sit down or get out. No one blocking my view of the movie. No stepping into God only knows as you walk out of the isle. If your town has a Drive-in, treat yourself!

4324.5.2005 03:52

I went to see the movie on premiere day (because my ex-girlfriend bought the ticket :-p). Just when I went in I saw a friend of mine and his friends exchanging the DVD! I thought "wow, that's fast" and wanted a copy more than anything. However, after seeing the film that urge was gone. It was fun, but not a keeper... I will BUY the trilogy box when it comes out though!

4424.5.2005 04:34

i downloaded "mindhunter" and it was a really good print. I went to the Theater next day, bought a ticket and tore it. I dont steal that dosnt make sense, ill give more where credits due and yes "white chicks" sucked and so did "are we there yet" sucked even more. I knew it but it sucked more ass. thanks to cocaine i had absolutely no intrest in that dumbass movie. but u see thats the point .. i want the movie company to pay me money to actually dumb me down to that level and kill whatever was left of my active braincells for that night, couldve used for something better like cutting outtve another fat rail or masturbation. if movie companies want honesty and not steal. Be honest and dont steal our money first. TELL US HOW MUCH THE MOVIE SUCKS.

4524.5.2005 12:19

Got the wp today. Anyone know of a free program to enhance the quality? A little to choppy for my likings on the big screen.

4624.5.2005 18:49

Ok.. I gotta admit.. I have a copy of this. I got it after I saw ROTS twice and I use this copy as a fix. I have every intention of buying the official release, but this is tiding me over. I would not have watched it if I had it before the theatrical release. Like the majority of SW fans.. the big screen is the only way to see it for the first time. These movie companies make an obscene amount of money. ROTS will be the same, even without counting the merchandising money. The people who choose this version over seeing it in theatres may not have seen it in the first place. I cant see how this copy can even begin to hurt the financial gross. I even know a few people who went to see it in the theatres because the work print left such an impression.

4725.5.2005 00:37

well been looking for that certain copy that was let lose on the net,can anybody point the way??

4825.5.2005 11:13

@karelj: Definitely agree with you. People aren't going to act any differently than if there was no copy available. Big enough SW fans will go to see it in theaters anyway. People who would've bought it on DVD will still buy it on DVD. Interestingly enough, despite the WP being spread across the 'net like wildfire, ROTS still broke all the records for its first day in the theater, or so I heard. Maybe the MPAA should rethink its idea that piracy reduces sales...

4925.5.2005 11:28

yup, even if i had a copy of it, with numbers or otherwise, good quality or otherwise, i'd still buy it on dvd. it's a fantastic film so worth buying

5025.5.2005 13:09

@Doofy, I rent a DVD movie at least once a week my average per year is probably two movie rentals + games rental for my kids on the Xbox, Nintendo, PS2 etc, etc. I have no shame to say that I have both paid and unpaid software and the one I like I pay for it later the other I don't like go in the recycling bin and no don't give me the shareware that give me a criple version to evaluate like the one that don't clean the registery but show you what is supposely wrong and criple you machine one you paid and get the full version and apply their recommendation and this have saved me tons of dollars and energie because of the crap lying around as free market mean sometime rubbing market for the consumer point of vue. Millenium Act is the best example of Anti-consumer and the price of CD is exorbitant when you think of what the cost of a CD was compare to a Vinyl One and how much more the Vinyl cost and wasn't a coincidence that the price was double with that new media? and I might add that the price has not go down with the mass production as we were told when I was younger don't worry once the article begin populary it the price will go down well on the contrary we have made many artist multi billionaire in certain case and when I see the hip op new arrival with 10 cars in their driveway it make people wonder same with the hockey fan :) it all goes at how much money you can make without being call by name and even in that case if you are the only player in town do you care? (MPAA) (obviously they don't). Morale is their is no morale today and no I see download as a way to weid the bad from the good when I find good stuff I always buy it eventualy. For Doofy ask the "Canadian MPAA" if they don't take the almost one dollars per CD tax they received should they said well it is money and money have no smeels?????? Who was against the VCR at the begining of the Recording Era? The MPAA and Hollywood and who later shut the hell up "after loosing their case in court first" when they started to rent movie on VHS Casset and made more money with the rental then the theater generate itself well that was before the $15.00 they charge per person to go see their movie + popcorn and no don't think that if you can't afford it make it not right to do it well it does becaue in my ming everyone is entitle to live happy as long as it does not kill you it make you stronger no? When corporation complain that regulation cost them money what they do they paid their Senator, President and Congress "People" to remove them when it come to pay tax they use Caiman Island to evade the Fisc "TAX" when they get cut they said it wasn't me it took to Loo Dob almost 2 years of TV Pressure to make one conviction after Emron, well it show to me that it is (Deux poids, Deux mesures) meaning Different weight Different way to apply the rules. Make the law and penalty and anti-trust play and I will be able to afford the CD again on a regulary basis. Call me by name but for me the one that preach total obedience are very often the one that do it in the dark like I saw many strict society so no I don't believe you at all when you said you never burn the red light that you never had a drink before you were 18 or 21 depending of the state and blah blah blah I never trust the one that are more catholic then the Pope this kind of people are full of sceletton in their closet. Remember the one that were trowing stone at Clinton to resign later because of thier own deed that suddenly become "public" but before they were more withe then the snow in the top of the Himalaya. Yep I will more trust someone that said I try with all my hart to not do the download but once in a while I do it but I don't encourage it. One of my friend artist even told me men if you can't afford my music make a donation instead because I have many that can afford it and I live a very good life because it is always easier to buy and have that feeling to have done something good but he never wanted me to suffer just be honest. Well anyway I don't think you care about me or any one that can't afford to spend all the time. For you it is the absolute search of proffit without commonsens I guess. Have a nice day

5125.5.2005 14:27

And we who DL'd SW3 are a threat to homeland security I suppose. FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ANNOUNCES CRACKDOWN ON P2P PIRACY NETWORK First Criminal Enforcement Against BitTorrent Network Users Washington, DC - Acting Assistant Attorney General John C. Richter of the Criminal Division, Homeland Security Assistant Secretary for Immigration and Customs Enforcement Michael J. Garcia, and Assistant Director Louis M. Reigel of the FBI's Cyber Division announced today the first criminal enforcement action targeting individuals committing copyright infringement on peer-to-peer (P2P) networks using cutting edge file-sharing technology known as BitTorrent. This morning, agents of the FBI and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) executed 10 search warrants across the United States against leading members of a technologically sophisticated P2P network known as Elite Torrents. Employing technology known as BitTorrent, the Elite Torrents network attracted more than 133,000 members and, in the last four months, allegedly facilitated the illegal distribution of more than 17,800 titles - including movies and software - which were downloaded 2.1 million times. In addition to executing 10 warrants, federal agents also took control of the main server that coordinated all file-sharing activity on the Elite Torrents network. Anyone attempting to log on to today will receive the following message: "This Site Has Been Permanently Shut Down By The Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement." "Our goal is to shut down as much of this illegal operation as quickly as possible to stem the serious financial damage to the victims of this high-tech piracy - the people who labor to produce these copyrighted products," said Acting Assistant Attorney General Richter. "Today's crackdown sends a clear and unmistakable message to anyone involved in the online theft of copyrighted works that they cannot hide behind new technology." "Internet pirates cost U.S. industry hundreds of billions of dollars in lost revenue every year from the illegal sale of copyrighted goods and new online file-sharing technologies make their job even easier," said Assistant Secretary Garcia. "Through today's landmark enforcement actions, ICE and the FBI have shut down a group of online criminals who were using legitimate technology to create one-stop shopping for the illegal sharing of movies, games, software and music." "The theft of copyrighted material is far from a victimless crime," said Assistant Director Reigel of the FBI. "When thieves steal this data, they are taking jobs away from hard workers in industry, which adversely impacts the U.S. economy. The FBI remains committed to working with our partners in law enforcement at all levels and private industry to identify and take action against those responsible." Building on the success of Operation Gridlock, a similar takedown announced by federal law enforcement last August that has already led to the felony convictions of three P2P copyright thieves, Operation D-Elite targeted the administrators and "first providers" or suppliers of copyrighted content to the Elite Torrents network. By utilizing BitTorrent, the newest generation of P2P technology, Elite Torrents members could download even the largest files - such as those associated with movies and software - far faster than was possible using more traditional P2P technology. The content selection available on the Elite Torrents network was virtually unlimited and often included illegal copies of copyrighted works before they were available in retail stores or movie theatres. For example, the final entry in the Star Wars series, "Episode III -Revenge of the Sith," was available for downloading on the network more than six hours before it was first shown in theatres. In the next 24 hours, it was downloaded more than 10,000 times. Operation D-Elite is being conducted jointly by ICE and the FBI as part of the Computer And Technology Crime High Tech Response Team ("CATCH"), a San Diego task force of specially trained prosecutors and law enforcement officers who focus on high-tech crime. Federal and state member agencies of CATCH include ICE, the FBI, the Department of Justice, the San Diego District Attorney's Office, San Diego Police Department, the San Diego Sheriff's Department, and San Diego County Probation. Operation D-Elite was coordinated and will be prosecuted by the Justice Department's Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, with the assistance and support of Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property (CHIP) coordinators in San Diego and U.S. Attorneys' Offices in Arizona, Illinois, Kansas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Wisconsin. The Motion Picture Association of America provided valuable assistance to the investigation.

5230.5.2005 11:11

I agree with the veiws of many people here in this forum. Yes this is a war. A war of pros and cons...this is what America has become am I correct. Everything in America has become about money, power, and greed. How many laws have been made or amended to suit the government or a certain group of people only to help out and protect them. How many celebrities out there feel that they are better than the common working man or feel that they stand above our standards of living. In the movie industry there is the time and devotion put into films but instead of the pay off of the finished product being that a studios masterpiece can be viewed to either be criticized to love or hate...they only look at how much money can be made off the product itself. We put them in the position they are at and we are looked down on like bugs to be stepped on. When they feel something has gone wrong we are the first to blame. Yes I saw the SW3 workprint and automatically knew it came from someone who worked on the movie. So What! I heard the movie generated millions on its release. Well Good for you! Then I was suprised when the FBI got involved and started issuing indictments.....WHY??? Because the movie industry says well we could've made more money if the movie hadn't been downloaded, released, and distributed. So now it becomes a so called crime. But in the end when it comes to dvd we still get the luxury of choice whether we want to rent or purchase the movie henceforth the movie industry still gets paid for its work. Sounds like GREED to me. Yet I still cannot figure why the government has become involved. Then again we all know what the government works on and for. It really does nothing it says for working class people anyways. The government imposes taxes on everything of value and can be sold. This is how the government gets its cut. So the government is also saying that they are losing money as well. They are saying that this needs to end and now it is deemed illegal and unlawful because you are now digging into our pockets. Not to mention a working class mans tax money which is in the billions of dollars distributed for sneseless wars where the military destroys a country and uses our tax money to rebuild it. And because of these things the jobs of the working class are lost and we end up suffering. Should I complain about the hustle of a movie bootlegger...NO! I think its better than what a drug dealer does and lord knows how many the federal government let run the streets each day. I believe its one of those famous words like "MONOPOLY" that define this whole situation. One says I can make a quality product worth this much and gain a fortune. The other says I can make your same may not be quality but I can sell it for a price lower than yours (ex. Walmart vs. Kmart). It is the peoples choice on what they purchase whether it be original or fake clone but, no one should suffer over greed. While they recognize this as a crime I don't see a crime at all. I only see choice. If we made the celebrities who they are today then that was by the choice of a majority of people whom glorified the celebrity for their work. The whole situation of crimes and laws for this is bullshit. I love the star wars series. As a fan...yes I would buy the whole series in which I have. If a bootlegger wants to sell the disc for $2 to $5 and save me the extra $4 I would have to pay in the theater then thats my choice to make that purchase. If I want to go to the theater and waste about $60 to $70 and then later on purchase the dvd for $15 to $20 then that is my choice. No crime has been committed. No one has died. This is how America began its businesses. And no one should not be denied choice.

5330.5.2005 13:16

Unfortunately, the greedy people are the ones with all the power. Not much way to change that in this system. Power corrupts.

5430.5.2005 13:38

Well I think there is way see the religious they wanted the power and they have it now. Same for the consumer if they start to do same game as the religious there is now way the senator that made a livehood from vote will ignore you I gave donation for worthy site on the net and if people want to organize a real team against the millenium copywright act as Canadian I will give a donation because now USA is getting my country to go their way it has become a world wide war against consumer and it all started in the good old US of A and we should bring back that war were it count in the loby of USA congress and senate. Get a real group and you have my donation, why I want to donate because USA is now changing my own country law to accomodate theirs and this has to stop but it can't be stop in Canada or France or UK it has to be done in USA and I am sure it will be legal to make foreign donation as long as it is for defence of the consumer. On that your tought?

552.6.2005 13:00

Obviously, many people are honest, but it amazes me how many thieves there are who think it's prefectly OK to steal a movie. If that is alright with them, why not go to a car lot and steal a car, it's just as legal. I had a neighbor who regularly stole software. He tried to give me a program that would fool the program into thinking it is registered. You can download a free trial and then run this program. I was raised believing that laws such as the copyright law are to protect people from thieves.

562.6.2005 13:04

...but this isn't about joe public stealing anything, it's about an insider leaking this workprint, and the media blaming joe public, hence fueling the piracy debate. And the authorities should be looking at why someone from inside the industry would leak this workprint, NOT that the public are sharing said workprint

572.6.2005 13:04

...but this isn't about joe public stealing anything, it's about an insider leaking this workprint, and the media blaming joe public, hence fueling the piracy debate. And the authorities should be looking at why someone from inside the industry would leak this workprint, NOT that the public are sharing said workprint

582.6.2005 14:06

How do you know it was stolen, Microsoft and a few movie studios have been known to "leak" copies of their work to get a sense of what people think, to get free advertising, or to just wet peoples appitite. Microsoft is known to post pr-release software that doesn't have all the features just to read the comments and get a massive bug reporting system going. British movie makers have used this method for years and when they read the comments, the work is re-edited and scenes added or cut..........

592.6.2005 15:09

Leaking a copyrighted work is not illegal unless the person has signed a confidentiality agreement with his company. In that case, he's asking for free room and board for about 20 years. Using a copyrighted work without buying it, whether or not it has been leaked, is not legal.

602.6.2005 17:39

Interesting point Dufas. I think you might be on to something here. This was a good way for everyone to make more money. The gov't and MPAA make more cause they bust people. The picture makes more money cause of the publicity. People save money from not going to theaters. Win win all around... except for the gamblers that lose... and Doofy who is out 100 bucks...

612.6.2005 18:10

cbedell... If one is in control of a movie or a piece of software, one can do as they please. Indipendent artists have also been using bittorrent and the newsgroups to release their own works. They own, they can release it. The purpose is still the same, to get known, to get feedback, to test the waters. There are some well known artists that release on P2P works that they do not normally do under a false name, like a blues singer that wants to see how a rock or a ballad goes over before committing his/her reputation to a different style. I personally know a programer that posts his beta programs in the newsgroups complete with a 'crack' so he can get feedback. When the feedback is positive and everyone and their uncle is asking for a repost, he puts the extras in and places it on the market. Both testing and cheap advertising. Not too long ago, he was hauled in for being one of the suppliers of pirated software, when he proved he was the author of the only evidence they had against him, they had to drop all charges. There is no law that is against an author giving away his work. Now, the authorities wait for a complaint before jumping the gun on someone.. Before the advent of the 'net, I know a producer that would make 'underground' VHS tapes of a work print movie for the same reasons. Depending on the the amount of copies requested, he would get an idea if he was on the right track. After he got feedback, the movie was re-edited and some missing scenes were put back in to make it a complete movie and it was released through normal distribution channels. This is one of the reasons that many pirated movies are not quite the same as the ones released to the theaters..and will give a clue as to which movies were 'planted' instead of pirated. Many times these planted movies will be an 'inhouse cam' or 'telesync' so it will look pirated.. As far as someone getting arrested for passing the movies on, the 'planters' don't really give a damn, it's the money, the money, and the money, that order.

623.6.2005 00:37

the 'planters' don't really give a damn, it's the money, the money, and the money, that order.
- yup, on that i agree. Everything is always about money (and power, but i digress!). It would make sense i guess if a lot of these leaks were deliberate, with films, software etc etc

633.6.2005 02:52

Obviously some people dont get it. Cbedell you tell me whats being stolen. It's not what has been done that has been put on trial here it's a persons choice. Have you ever worked in a prison. You ever saw a prison overcrowded with people who actually dont belong there. Some so called crimes are so bogus that if statistics in certain crimes made a drop or usually at some peak election time representatives of congress actually have law enforcement agents find some type of crime going on in order to keep the tax dollars of working citizens pumping into the penal system. If certain events do not happen then congress feels that people are digging into its pockets along with other things. Sometimes city government throws people into a scare like laying off safety officials and passing levies for another tax to bring money from tax dollars back into that department. All of these example fall into the same category. These film makers and celebrities know they get payed twice regardless of where the movie came from. Just like music artist. Alot of rappers introduce unreleased music onto p2p networks so it can be heard and then people purchase their mixtape or cd. This is not an uncommon practice. Media hype gains the attention of anything. Heres an example....Aljezeera TV gets a terrorist kidnapping tape views it and sends it out to other countries. When it is introduced to the US and you see it on American TV how does it make a person feel. I bet it makes you angry...exactly how they want you to feel about the situation. The it becomes a majority feeling and then everybody says "we hate terrorist". Or how about an armed person robbing your you know the laws really deny anything about self defense. If you attack or kill the suspect ...he or she becomes the victim and you are going to jail regardless of it being in the interest of self defense. A majority of people will probably believe that a person doesnt belong there while some wouldve said you should've called the police so you belong there....but it all ties into what I'm saying. Laws are no longer laws in this day and age. Laws = money, power, and greed in this day and age. If you don't have an abundance of it then you are nobody. And for that crap that they try to hype up about some movie being stolen is shit. If a person steals a movie then I guess you go to some place like Wal-mart and slip the disc in your pants and see how far they get. Now that is stealing. P2P networking regardless of whats on it is a network of sharing and trading. No different then trading in the same way the world does but in the sense of technology. How can any government regulate the networks of the internet. How much porn can you find on the internet and still go to the adult store and purchase the movie. The choice does not belong to an organization of power forcing you to believe whether you are right or wrong because these laws are not in favor of you. But the thing that you can sy is rightfully yours is the choice of rather you want to like or dislike the movie....purchase it or not. Trade it with a friend or not. Thats up to you. I know that I made the choice to purchase the movies that I have.....and it all comes down to I purchased them because I wanted to. But never ever knock a persons hustle unless it brings the loss of a drug dealer or how about the warmongers of our time.

643.6.2005 03:00

re your comment about someone robbing houses - ...luckily in the UK now, some things are a'changing. Finally householders are now able to defend themselves in their own home, and use 'reasonable force' to lawfully protect themselves from burglars or intruders.

653.6.2005 03:14

Wow I guess the UK is somewhat changing. I study laws of many countries of power and how they affect the average citizen. I kinda hate the fact that UK citizens dont have the right to bear arms to protect themselves. I recently saw that they are banning long kitchen knives because they say they serve no purpose and its intentions are clear. Soon it may be the mere table fork on trial. Not to get off topic but I'm amazed because for the UK thats a first.

663.6.2005 19:06

Well UK invented the Parlementary system and never have to chop the head of their Monarch (King or Queen) the highest crime rate is were? Wich country in the world come first on every point? Hmmmmm I don't think I have any lecon to give to the UK.

674.6.2005 15:18

what happened to starwars? ;)

684.6.2005 18:01

I dunno....I guess that along with other variously leaked movies etc. this shows thats this whole incident is even bigger than star wars...!!!!! lol!!!

695.6.2005 04:16

yea well any1 who watches starwars on that low quality leak with numbers across the top of it is missing out. you will enjoy the movie 50 times more if you pay £5 and watch it at the cinema.

705.6.2005 07:54

pro`noob.... you got a point but, only at a UK vs. US price or rate of exchange. $5.00 GBP equals about $9.00 to $10.00 US. Even though I would love afford the luxury of the theatre experience I think I'd rather go the $3 to $5 dollar route or trade from some bootlegger who has the work print and wait for the DVD. Either way...the industry still gets my money when it comes out on DVD. See where I'm from in the US the theatre used to cost $4.50 per person to get in now it's about $9.00. Along with the price of gas here as well with a car load of children slowing me down......gas + theatre food + (admission X 5)= $66.50 (Adult admission @$9 x 2)....(underage admission @$7 x 3).. (big bucket of popcorn @$5 x 2)... US gas @ $2 a gal. min ( gas total is $10 for 5 gal.).... theatre candy @ $2.50 x 3) ...this estimates at $70. This mean at GBP exchange rate you'd only pay about half.

715.6.2005 08:31

@Sazaziel, i hear where you're coming from, though i'm a few steps behind you as i'm 'no longer married' so money for me is even more of an issue than you just described (and i live in ripoff Britain, oh and i live afloat on the ripoff waterways!!). However i do try and take my girls to the cinema once in a blue moon, and even buy all the goodies as it makes the experience a little nicer for them. My girls have been brought up over last couple years knowing their ole dad just can't afford things too easily, so appreciate the few things like this that i can do for them. Shit this is coming out real wrong, I'm not sure i've explained it properly, and i'm not comparing myself to you whatsoever btw. It's only recently that i can once again afford to take my kids to the cinema etc, but it's one thing i try to when the big movies come out. Going completely out of left field as you americans would say, i remember when i was younger, and the cinema cost something like 20pence. I'm sure i'm gonna re-read this in a few mins and it will just not read correctly..

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725.6.2005 09:08

ok so u got a slightly more expensive cinema than us here in the uk... but dont get me started on gas :) u dont know how much it costs to fill your tank up over here! $2 a gal... we pay that much per litre

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jun 2005 @ 9:13

735.6.2005 09:14

i daren't go off topic........ in ripoff britain, next year we boaters are potentially gonna have to pay the same price for red diesel as we do for cars, ie f**kin very expensive difference. I wouldn't mind but i don;'t use my diesel for boating, but for heating. ARGH!!!!!!. anyway to sneakily get back on topic, piracy doesnt pay

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745.6.2005 14:44

Off Topic.... I think that the MPAA is pushing to make public domain a thing of the past. I read that they have {by now did} approached the courts to allow people to extend copyrights indefinetly.. Since they have now declared the downloading of TV shows piracy and they have tried to include the old the old 20s, 30s, and 40s movies as part of the deal. I noticed that right after this announcement, the local video store started carrying a bunch of old movies and TV video. They used to carry a very small collection, but now, there are several complete ailes of the stuff. What is sadly ironic/humorous is that many of the DVDs are the identical videos that one used to be able to download from the net. I mean identical with the same digital flaws and other bad spots that were in the net versions.... I have some older original DVD releases of some of these films and I have seen a few that has been downloaded from the net. The flaws are not in the original DVD releases. Yet, in the ones that are on sale now at the video stores, the flaws are there that are in the downloaded files... So what the studios that are releasing these new copies of the older stuff has done is download the video and burn master DVDs for manufacture of DVDs for sale. They are using pirated movie videos to make more money from what used to be public domain items and freely exchanged with no complaints from anyone... This is a little like re-patenting windshield wipers and then telling the car makers that they have to pay $25.00 to the new patent holder for each car manufctured with said wipers installed . Talk about the greedinous of the rich. Then when it comes to their money, they use creative bookkeeping and Sub-chapter 3 tax codes to keep as much of their $$$ as they can, yet will go out and stump for increasing taxes on everyone else. This isn't even mentioning all the underhanded crap and stealing they do to each other....Hollywood types make me sick........

756.6.2005 23:09

People will find another way to trade and share in an open community. Goverments only react, they are to slow to pre-act. BTW, A friend just loaned my the DVD copy of Star Wars and it was terrible (only 1,5 Gb and 2 large counters)! If I hadn't seen it already I would have gone to the cinema anyway!

767.6.2005 05:49

It's just plain greed using tyranic tactics to put people in fear. A way to try to keep the industry in control of people along with many governments acting as iron curtains to protect them from the average citizen like us. Lets calculate a profit earning from retail dvd sales for example @ 1 million consumers purchasing the same movie worldwide. The average new release dvd is bought at about $15 US. This is $15,000,000 to the industry and a shit load of money to us right. Any government taxing in the US lets say @ a $1 tax per dvd....equals and extra $1 million dollars for the government. So I really dont get what the fuss is especially when this is a calculation of consumers purchasing a retail dvd on its release date. If 100,000 consumers rent the dvd on that same day @ a rental fee of $5.00 US then this is $500,000 dollars to this company. Even though the movies are purchased wholesale through the rental company a government tax is still imposed and the industry still gets paid via the rental company. A double standard is now made as well. In addition to rental the government also taxes the consumer as well averaging about 20 cent extra during rental of each movie. This in taxes adds up to an additional $20,000 in government taxes US. Does this example sound pretty greedy to any one else because I'm sure that I've probably made havent even grossed 1 million dollars in my lifetime of working and thats been about 13 years. Yet the ones complaining are making around $10,000 to $1,000,000 or more in a day. Keep in mind that it is by our choice as the consumer to purchase the retail product so the industry gets paid. Like I said in an earlier post...if I wanted to just see the movie then I'll watch the workprint and later on if I decide that I want to watch the movie again in dvd quality, surround sound, special effects, and dvd extras then I will purchase SW3 retail when it arrives in stores.

777.6.2005 12:59

Everybody is making excuses. A copyright is to protect the producer of a product whether it's a movie, book, or music. His reason for producing it is to make money to which he is entitled. Anyone who downloads any such thing without paying for it is a thief. There is no other definition and no excuse for it.

787.6.2005 13:13

cbedell: No copywright had an expiration date and now that we see the expiration date coming your congress is now extending by 25 years and going and going it is like the bug bunny in the advertising of Energizer. We know stealing is stealing but don't give us the more Catholic then the pope because there is law and not all law are equal. Read the fondation of your constitution of the good old US of A to see what I mean by the people for the people does that give you a clue about what the lobying and millenium act is creating in our world????? On that troll away mister more catholic then the Pope.

797.6.2005 14:08

cbedell: Copyrights used to be for 21 years until the MPAA stuck it's nose into politics. Have you ever heard of public domain. This originally meant that after a given period of time, copyrights expired and no matter what it was moved into public domain meaning anyone has free access to the material whether it is a book, picture, article, or a movie. Many of the old movies were in public domain . They are not anymore. Now, a copyright goes on forever, passed down to heirs. This is going to backfire in as much that the movie industry used to take public domain material and make re-makes of them and the only cost was for production. They didn't have to pay someone for the movie rights. If they are honest and not hypocritical, they will look up the last owner of the copyright and make them an offer for the re-make rights. What do you want to bet that the movie maker will only apply public domain rights when it suits his needs and want to apply copyrights when he can make some money ????

807.6.2005 14:11

you know what - it shows that a company , whether its S*O*N*Y or Ma*cro*vis*ion or whoever, with all their millions, more like billions, are afraid of one normal (but obviously extremely talented) individual from the UK (who has contributed so much to so MANY grateful people). That shows that to feel so threatened by one person, they are greedy, technically inept, oh and did i say greedy. Good luck to Lightning for the future.

817.6.2005 20:45

cbedell.... your the one making excuses. Why don't you go somewhere and pray or something. You make it obvious that you may supposedly be some law abiding citizen or something but when will that change. Do you have to be bent over first until you can't take it anymore or is there a point of view that any money hungry industry or governing power hasn't touched to strike a nerve yet. When people have an opinion does it make it right for a group with money or power to tell you to "shut up"! I'm not knocking you in any way because many of us here do get your point but, this issue downloading did not become illegal until the music and movie industry began to feel that they weren't selling enough of their product and needed to find someone or something to blame. So they go...well ok lets blame the internet. No one can rule the network of cyberspace because there is no where to start. So they say lets go after the average joe and sue. For what? Because they grossed $30 million dollars on a theatre release but, the goal was $50 million. Then they could dine at a fine restaurant and if I was serving them and admired them...they'd probably treat me like shit. Open your eyes cause money isn't everything. If nothing cost nothing then would this topic even be an issue at all. I'm gonna let you think real hard about that one. Times are hard. The economy of many powerful countries are going bad. They blame things like this on average people because we try to pinch our pennies when we are in a jam to make ends meet. Yet highly overpaid celebrities along with others in the government and industry blame us when they dont gain that extra million they feel that they are entitled to. The freakin porn industry doesn't even bitch this much. This is because they know the product is good whether downloaded or purchased. All they want people to do is see it...get aroused...and come..excuse me..cum back for more. Now thats darn good business. So I could care less about the big business entertainment industries using the government to put people in fear. I have more respect for Jenna Jameson than I do for Jennifer Lopez. She's the queen. Most movies sold and the most download ever. She doesn't have a reason to complain because she knows what she can do and still gets paid for it without complaint. Point blank...the internet is freedom from the rest of the world yet connecting you to the world itself. It's trading, free to download, complete freedom. No one should be stripped of at least this freedom. Trying to take freedom away from a person may cause problems. Star Wars is a great movie but if the industry feels that they could use fear to pressure me into purchasing their product then I just wont purchase it. Eventually I will just cure my bordom by playing Xbox and the industry will lose money because I bought a game (non-Star Wars related) instead.

828.6.2005 06:01

I don't have to make excuses as nearly everyone else seems to. I was raised to follow the law whether just or unjust. If it's unjust, there are ways to fight it. The copyright laws are not unjust, they are there to protect something which has been produced for sale and a profit.

838.6.2005 09:18

cbedell...ithe the way you think whether just or unjust makes you feel good about yourself then good dog. Go fetch another bone. But just as you say...staeling is stealing...well...sharing is sharing and a trade is for a trade. And if I bought something with my money...can you read this...."my money" I am free to do whatever I choose with it. I'd rather get beat up and take a loss then to bend over and just take anything. Laws are made just for the wealthy and powerful. There is no way to fight against laws that are unjust. Congress itself has more power than the president of the US. And as far as voting against unjust laws ....laws are made in Congress and primarily voted for in Congress. More than half of the laws passed aren't even known about by the average citizen. The average citizen didnt even want to go to war and that shit happened. So as you sleep tonight just hope and pray that one day a bill passed that you do not agree with doesn't affect your life. It doesn't have to be this topic or the next but I'm sure you will feel as angry as many people do on this site. But back to the topic......the industry leaked its own movie and caused a big stir up in the media. In turn the media persecuted the average citizen and now the government along side with law enforcement officials are trying to crucify people just make make an extra dollar and a point.

848.6.2005 11:01

cbedell is an excellent example of why it is now a legal system instead of a justice system.

858.6.2005 12:05

Our "justice" system died when Washington became the center of a dictatorship. Since the Patriot Act, no one can deny this is a dictatorship.

868.6.2005 16:04

Hmm... You aren't with the MPAA, trying to make us submit, are you?

8717.6.2005 17:16

star wars was unbelievable! i was so close to crying :[ yes, i was one of the nerds who stood in line for 12 hours, but it was worth every minute
Worst star wars yet released in my opinion. It didnt get very good reviews. I didnt think it was anything special. nonoitall i worry about your mental health

8817.6.2005 17:44

Just wait...Some MPAA lawyer is going to try and figure a way to sue people that don't go to see a movie. In order to protect the movie industry, all people will have to go to every movie under penalty of fine or imprisonment amounting to no more or less than the lawyer can squeeze out of the offender.........

8919.6.2005 12:33

nonoitall i worry about your mental health

9019.6.2005 20:27

dufas you got a good point. Actually you make a great point. It brings up the message the industry is I guess trying to weasel in to telling people. I think that message is .... "We depend on you the people to make us rich. If you do not comply with our demands to make us rich we will then force you to make us rich by any means necessary"!

9119.6.2005 22:40

Brilliant,.....I should have had said it that way........

9230.6.2005 08:48

Well, well....The entertainment industry is complaining that there is an 18 percent decline in movie attendance and this is reflected in their profits. This decline is going on even though they have stopped so many file trading sites. Could it be that the Hollywood Elite have pissed off a lot of the little people ?? Does this mean that the elite will have to get along without another Europian castle or another limosine in their garage ??? Will the Carl Reiner family be stuck with just 24 SUVs, they may have to decide between another SUV or a new Lambergini... One would think that an industry that sues little old ladies and 12 year old children would have the brains to figure out what is going on. Many of the people that I know won't go to any movie at all. There are several points to the argument that these non-attendies give..... 1....The entertainment industry wants complete control over one's entertainment. This includes what, when, and how one gets entertainment. So much for entertainment freedom. 2....The entertainment industry has and uses political clout to not only control the public's private life but also to levie taxes on blank CDs, blank DVDs, blank video tapes, and on computers which is put into a pool to be divided between the entertainment studios because these items might be used to copy their product. 3....The entertainment industry has destroyed the concept of public domain. You can be sure that they will do everything in their power to crush anyone that they find making a copy of something like the The Petrified Forest (1936) or Idiot's Delight (1939) but when it comes to filming a re-make, you can be sure that they will argue that they do not have to pay anyone because the work is in public domain, at least for their purposes...... 4....The entertainment industry say that they are trying to preserve jobs, yet when the entertainment indusry calls for a boycot of some manufacturing company or a service industry, they do not seem to care about any lost jobs then. Also, when the script girl, the sound man, the gopher and others begin to get residual payments for re-runs, then they may be listened to. All the monies, the extra taxes, 95 percent of the residuals go directly to the the studios and is paid to the studio heads. There have been many, many cases of where an actor is supposed to get residual payments instead of being paid just for the actors work. The studios then use " Creative Bookkeeping " to keep the money for themselves. 5....The greater majority of the entertainers, the Martin Sheens, the carl and Rob Reiners, the Barbara Streisands are more than willing to tell the public how to live their lives but no one dares to tell these actors, directors, producers, studio heads how to live their lives. No one tells the elite what to do... 6....The entertainment industry is devising ways to stop the recording of TV shows. This is one of the major reasons for changing to digital television. High resolution TV can be had with anologue TV. But, the logic is, if there is to be change, let's go digital because embedded data can be included to keep people from recording from the air waves. Even if a person manages to make a recording, the digital anti-copy data will keep a computer from making any copies. One person who works in the entertainment industry even suggested that embedding computer viruses or trojans into the digital video stream was possible and that he would look into the matter. This same man also belongs to a group that wants to include an income tax of the general population to be collected by the government and paid to the studios. He concludes that there is a tax on computers and video supplies already, and it would not be any different than the monies paid to farmers and various manufactering indudustries from income taxes.....

9330.6.2005 09:55

It's just sickening what the entertainment industry and its standards have come to. It's so damn sickening. Whats next....America turns from democracy into communism. Will the industry use its pawn which is the government to start forcing everybody to go to the theatres every weekend. I can see something like that happening. Imagine being taken to jail for not going to the movies....!!!! Bull shit...just plain and simple political bull shit!

943.8.2005 12:26

Last night I walked into my local theatre. I looked up on the wall to see 8 42+ inch plasma screens on the wall above the consessions. Above those was a huge replica of a 747 (being in seattle.. boeing central). I then took a look at the menu: $4.50 LARGE SODA $5.00 LARGE POPCORN Tickets: $9.50 I also see 10+ highschool kids wading in popcorn serving the rushing crowd into the theatre. After seeing the movie (wedding crashers) I realized... Man I am glad I downloaded that first and watched it.. I would have pissed if that movie sucked and I spent 25 bucks to go to the movies!

9526.8.2005 04:57

OK Dumb idea but I like it just the same. Make it so, that when or if I go to see a movie in the theater I get a one time use coupon or discount code for the DVD when it is released. Then, if I so wish, make it possible for me to be able to see the movie again via the internet until the release of the DVD. We are crafty but there are still ways to stream media that make it really hard to copy if not nearly impossible. So this way, everyone is happy. I paid my 10 bucks to see SW EP3, I am certainly not going to pay to see it in the theater again. Like I said, dumb idea but just make the product a whole package. Hollywood could pee it's pants by have a pre-order on a DVD for movies it just releases...come on you assholes come up with an idea instead of crying in you hands about a problem that is never going to to truly go away. One way or another someone is get a boot leg, so take the next logical step, circumvent the bootleg process by offering an alternative.

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