-- " goz83 " --

- It is unacceptable what you're trying to say, because your point of view are on the side of Big Corporate Companies interest fat wallets. Are you one of them ? -

NOTE: After the original "master recording", thereafter anything and everything it is consider been a COPY(s), so actually what you are buying is a copy and rights of ownership. So, After I have purchased my copy I have "the right" to do whatever I pleased with it.

How many times I have purchased a CD or DVD did not like it and gave it away or throw it away. Now, who will tell me not to.

If I would be an artist, musician or whatever,.. I will be really glad and happy that people would share and download and Re-share and Re-download my material for FREE!. WHY ?, very simple, I would have save on Advertising...thousands, millions $$$$.

I would legalized and register Copyrights of my unique name, group-Band or material so others cannot profit from Re-recording, Playing or Transmiting or Re-transmitting, these Copyrights practice will apply not only in the USA will aplly for all over the world. (this practice is not new) when I'll be famous, of course my income will come from Interviews, Video and Films Recordings, Presentations, Concerts, TV Appearances, Photograhs, Magazines... you name it ( also, this practice is not new). This way I would have not to depend or been slaved by Corporations, but my "RAW recorded material" will be FREE! and will be only available for downloads on the Internet for the entire world. -- free Advertising ---

--- perhaps, many of you will disagree --- I know our brains are wired differently.

Some of you will ask, well from where these companies wil get all the money in order to pay you. Well, the answer is... these companies or business will get their income from Advertisments which from those Ads, will generate all kind of different demand(s) and from demands equals money. (this method of acquiring capital is not new)

But in reality things are the way around,...The group-Band plead - please Corporations; Make Me Famous Fast, Make Me Rich Fast and Faster, because I have to get my BLING's, BIG HOUSE's and my LAMBORGHINI's, I will do anything you want me to do !.-- The Corp's give them the money under signing contract for so much $$$$. The Corp's are putting themselve in a capital loss, now... they have to gain that money back and make profit also, right?. so, after a little while the group-Band are not doing very well on CD sales, not so much profit in concerts either, people are not so excited on buyin', the fame has wash out - remember to keep on top of fame cost money -, this is happening not because people are ilegally downloading, just because the group-Band,...SUCKS. At this point the Big Corp's are pissed off. fired the group-Band and complaint to the RIAA where's my MONEY ?, I want it back! - and RIAA responds - OK, let's lawsuit, who has the Copyrights?

The Big Corp's cannot sued the group-Band, because the Recording Company has the master recording copyrights and if the group-Band have the master recording is because are legally filed for the Artists Copyright(s). --- Let me see...Uhmm, WHO can we lawsuit... Oh, yeah... I know... John Doe-Boy, Sussie, Markie... have downloaded Copyright material, Let's go and get them !.

shhhhh. i hear a tumble weed i'd rather listen to.

ooops triple post, wow!

Originally posted by goz83:

---

shhhhh. i hear a tumble weed i'd rather listen to.

---

- Er, yeah, great.

Not exactly the best attitude to have around here, these are supposed to be debating and discussion boards afterall.

Nevermind, you can support the corporations & their nonsensical attiudes to 'property' and 'theft' - oooops I meant 'play devils advocate', of course :P - some other time, eh?

ooops double post

Quote:

---

Originally posted by goz83:

---

shhhhh. i hear a tumble weed i'd rather listen to.

---

- Er, yeah, great.

Not exactly the best attitude to have around here, these are supposed to be debating and discussion boards afterall.

Nevermind, you can support the corporations & their nonsensical attiudes to 'property' and 'theft' - oooops I meant 'play devils advocate', of course :P - some other time, eh?

---

I think it may be you with the attitude. you say this is a place for debate? well in order to have a debate with someone or a group, people must listen or read what the other person/people are actually saying. but then i said that I gave up (ending the debate) because it came across to me that you weren't really taking on board what I was saying and preferred to twist it round and stake false claims that I am connected with the corps. you were too busy arguing rather than debating. So.... end of debate. Thank you.

I see where you're coming from, your point is that the Corp's are loosing profit, because...

==================================================================
goz83 (Newbie) 10 August 2007 19:52

If those 10 people did not receive the burned file then maybe they would have purchased the content from the store.

===================================================================

answer me this:

gmontalc (Newbie) 10 August 2007 19:36

what about those days when did not existed internet, CD, DVD, mp3's and all the digital media, not even the computer itself. People were sharing their music and still the Recording Companies and Artists made millions.

The idea that the music or movie industry has been making losses is a flat out lie.
IIRC they have rarely been so profitable (generally speaking).

They appear to imagine that every burned copy is a lost sale and they conjure up astronomic numbers of 'losses' to wave at people......which is just lying BS
(as well as a denial of any sense of 'fair use' or 'managed copy').

But the truth is that the alternative to a burned copy is (in many if not nearly all cases) to not bother at all,
in other words there was never the chance of a sale, ever, and therefore there can be no imagined 'loss'.

Of course the current fad in the USA is to blur the distinction between physical good (like say a car) and this kind of 'intellectual property.
But if you were to ask for a weekend test of their 'intellectual property' to see if you actually liked it and thought it worth buying they'd turn you down flat.
Some parallels can only be extended so far, huh?

People can travel around in circles till they disappear up their own a$$es over this if they like but it makes no odds, 'the people' won't have this nonsense (practically the world over).

The Germans (like much of the EU) are just, for now, being honest, realistic and reflecting the views of 'the people', not business.
Of course 'business' can't abide this and will use every legal avenue to attack the consumer's interests and make our interests subservient to theirs.
Crazy.

.....but then there can be no surprise in that, they are after-all nutter enough to actually pursue this through the courts and to threaten their own customer base over this BS.

No that was not my point. One of my main points was that in most cases of a "shared" or "Burned" copy it's petty theft because the recipient or the instigator has not purchased the material. I wasn't really delving into profit and loss as a point of view. But since you bring it up, most of us (countries and the people within)are wealthier now than before the age of the cd, dvd and indeed the internet. And if the average person was earning (for arguments sake) 15,000 US Dollars in the early eighties. Would you say 15,000 US Dollars has the same value today? The answer is no. Inflation is one reason for that. So if the record companies and corporates were making milllions back then, would it not be fair to say that if they are only making millions now that they are in fact at a loss?

Things have become more expensive and you'd be pushing very hard to buy a jelly for a penny these days. I don't know what kind of figures these companies are really making and I don't really care but the fact is that they are losing some potential profit [b]due to fille sharing and burning. people will continue to do it and I say let them. But they have to be willing to pay the consequences if they get caught. If you genuinely think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing/burnng then we have both had our say and should agree to disagree.[/b]

haha, i love it, this something we feel so passionately, so manny loooooooooooong comments

Germany doesn't see file sharing a problem? I totally agree with them since Germany doesn't have any problems with people downloading content from their country. Ooooo someone is downloading Ramstein illegally ha!

---

For the matter of this debate is a very serious topic,

goz83 - QUOTES: - "in most cases of a "shared" or "Burned" copy it's petty theft because the recipient or the instigator has not purchased the material"

Answer: How many times I have purchased a CD or DVD did not like it and gave it away or throw it away. Now, who will tell me not to. Also I have made a copy or rip into my playback equipments.

Have you done this?, are you considering this is a petty theft?

Hughjars Answers: Of course the current fad in the USA is to blur the distinction between physical good (like say a car) and this kind of 'intellectual property. But if you were to ask for a weekend test of their 'intellectual property' to see if you actually liked it and thought it worth buying they'd turn you down flat.

goz83 - QUOTES: - "So if the record companies and corporate were making millions back then, would it not be fair to say that if they are only making millions now that they are in fact at a loss? "

Answer: (that quote is totally out) FACT -- They were making millions then and are still making millions now, the only fair game is empty your wallet.

goz83 - QUOTES: - "I don't know what kind of figures these companies are really making and I don't really care".

Answer: That is the purpose or agenda of Governments, Companies, Beauros, Corporates, Agencies …etc, Is to hide any information away from everybody. More so if you don’t care, you’re giving a "green light" for them to be greedy, fraudulent and do whatever they want. Without your vote or consent.

if you buy it and then give the original/physical/purchased copy away it is not theft. if you copy it and then give away either original or copy i consider it a form of theft by duplication.

lets say you have purchased "the matrix" 3 disc collection and your friend says he's gonna buy the set. but you decide to make a copy and give it to him. that's a sale lost almost for sure. getting my point? fine, these companies are making a killing in profit but we can either buy the stuff or not. the alternative is to steal. there is no in-between. the only thing i agree to is making a back up copy to keep incase one copy is lost or damaged or stolen.

- " goz83 " -

Your comments are like rubber bands. You disagree and contradict with your own statements, at the same time agreed. on every post you're using the "IF"

(eg)... If that is true, what should we do?...

Put in jail or fine everyone and everybody that is susppected doing it? (like a NAZI's STATE), you know how many of billions of $$$ the State will lose?. Do you have the big buck to pay a Lawyer that will fight against the multi-billion US dollars Industry?, come on now, "IF" for every insignificant situation(s) you've pointed as a petty theft, then everyone (we all in this planet) with no exception are liars, thieves...etc.

- " goz83 " - if you buy it and then give the original/physical/purchased copy away it is not theft. if you copy it and then give away either original or copy i consider it a form of theft by duplication.

Answer: - Corporates, Recording Companys and Artists do not even care what you do with your purchased merchandise UNLESS, you're making any kind of PROFIT from it. then and only then Corps and such will be taken $$$ LOSS.

example. - The money that you're using as such is a property of the State of the country you live in. Now, IF I give you (as a gift) some money and you take it and then spend it on whatever, THAT make you a petty thieve?... at same time the salesman where you made the purchsed, he/she is a petty thieve?.... NO !... ONLY will be a crime or a loss for the State "IF" someone counterfit the money.

These whole thing about Corps and such, having economic losses is only a hidden agenda, it is a making believe, They're affraid to do business any other way, just because they would not make much money as they want to. New technology is here to stay and people has enough imagination to use it and develop it.

I use the word "if" because I am presenting non-factual representative examples and and "if" you werent so busy thinking you were right, you might actually consider what i'm saying. And take your time, it's difficult to understand you when your grammar is so messy.

It would not be theft if you were to give me money because it is something you have earned and are entitled to spend or give as you wish. I don't see where I am being contradictory. It is only logical to agree that by reproducing a copy of work (whether it be a copyright protected photograph or dvd) and giving it to someone else is a violation of the agreement of purchase and carries potential loss for the rightful owners of the work.

Yet another example would be "IF" you painted a picture or took a photograph and sold the reproduction rights to an advertising agency for their local magazine with the understanding that you would receive a royalty of 10 cent per copy produced which included a royalty if the image was used on the internet. Now "IF" you saw that image being used by another agency or any other company or individual body can you honestly say you would be happy about it. Especially knowing that you would not receive any royalty for the use of that image? Lets say it becoes one of the most popular images to be used on the internet. Nobody would want to purchase resale rights from you because everyone is already using the image. Would you be happy?

One might have more sympathy for the individual or smaller company but at what point does it become ok to steal from those companies? Maybe when they make their first million? Or Maybe it's ok because they charge so much for their products?

It's a well known fact that the smaller companies are usually more expensive so why not just screw them over?

And lets face facts. for as long as people can copy or "file share" as people more conveniently like to call it, there will be people making an illegal profit from it. I certainly cant see an end to it but it doesn't make it ok either.

Maybe next you'll agree to someone sharing your wife? As long as there is no profit of course....

It certainly wouldn't be theft. But how would you see it? Assuming you're married that is, or atleast have a girlfriend or boyfriend if you prefer that side of the fence.

it's poinless, nevertheless, you have no point, you're only tryn' to disagree for whatever...


gmontalc has quoted:---

Quote:

---

Not long ago people shared their Vinyl LP's, VHS, Music Tapes... and none of this were happening. If those Corporates weren't so greedy and cryn' out loud to the RIAA none of this will be happening.

These whole thing about Corps and such, having economic losses is only a hidden agenda, it is a making believe, They're affraid to do business any other way, just because they would not make much money as they want to. New technology is here to stay and people has enough imagination to use it and develop it.

---

German courts don't see file sharing as a serious problem

They (german court representatives) do however acknowledge that it is a problem. Every point I have put to the forum is logical and hopefully understandable to all with english. I don't disagree for the sake of disagreeing. I acknowledge tha corporate greed is in itself wrong and immoral and the driving force of it's business. But I wonder if any of us would refuse to stake a claim for that kind of cash regardless of the greed it derives from. I would rather be greedy than dirty.

All this should be in the privacy act of every country around the world and these private information should not be given out to no one no matter who the hell they are.

I agree boran. Nobody should be accessing peoples records for such petty theft and they should remain private and confidential unless a more serious matter arises.

PLEASE READ these...

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10752.cfm

And this...

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10747.cfm

-- goz83 -- Is good to see that you're one of us NOW !. Please don't be greedy, because your self being will be dirty.

Originally posted by gmontalc:

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PLEASE READ these...

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10752.cfm

And this...

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10747.cfm

-- goz83 -- Is good to see that you're one of us NOW !. Please don't be greedy, because your self been will be dirty.

---

I ask that you get a life.

READ THIS

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10759.cfm

no. i don't want to read it. good day.

GMON, goz83, they are both valid point that you have, but its simply this RIAA has control over media world wide. and some people dont under stand that the pressures of money use is very tight in any contry but its just that. im a middle class person and very close to being a lower class person. however this class line is so strecthed right now that theres not much deffrince between middle class and basicly bieng poor,. by the time bills are paid the food on the table i dont have enough money to puchase any 10-15 dollar cd-dvd.
becoase the defacto of gas and other such things as tools for the job. i drive a good 33miles to work in an older vehicle but you get the point.

I said good day!

hahahahahahahaahaha

thats so Fez!
hahahaha

way to many that 70`s show for you goz83 hahahaha

and Now!!!

Good day :p

how about you blow me? sound better?