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27 September 2007 19:32 by Rich "vurbal" Fiscus
| 96 comments
Imagine if a major automobile manufacturer came up with a way to use an onboard computer to require that you buy gasoline from a particular company. It's the same gas you can buy anywhere, but unless the pump includes special circuitry only available to a single company that paid a bunch of money to the car's manufacturer for the privilege, the gas tank can't be filled. Now let's say that an enterprising individual wants to choose his own gas station, so he comes up with a way to reprogram the car's computer, allowing the owner to fill the gas tank from any pump at any gas station. Let's finally suppose that there's a recall on the car, requiring owners to bring them into a dealership for free repairs, but while the car is being fixed, every dealer is required to check the fuel tank computer to make sure it hasn't been tampered with to allow gas from non-approved sources, and disable the car's engine if evidence of tampering is found. When irate owners complain to dealership management they're simply told that a license agreement they agreed to by driving off the lot voids the car's warranty, and another on a piece of paper they signed to get the recall work done allows the dealership to modify the car in whatever way the manufacturer wants, so basically there's nothing they can do.
It sounds like a ludicrous situation, but it's not as far fetched as it may seem at first. Replace the word car with mobile phone, and choosing your own gas station with choosing your own wireless provider, and you've got something that looks a lot like Apple's apparent plan for the iPhone. Earlier this week Apple announced a major update to the iPhone. Unfortunately for iPhone owners who have unlocked their phones to use them on networks other than AT&T, the update will also cause their phones to cease working at all. The phones appear to be in the same pre-activation state as when they're new, but they can't be actived with a non-AT&T SIM (which requires the phone to be unlocked) or the original AT&T SIM that came with the phone.
Additionally, iPhones that have been hacked to allow unauthorized third party software to be installed will be modified, although they won't stop working. Instead, all software not specifically allowed by Apple simply disappears.
An announcement from Apple did make it clear that software for unlocking the phones "will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed." When asked for clarification, an Apple representative stated that the company is not "proactively trying to disable any iPhone that has been hacked or unlocked by software," However, this seems to contradict a statement made by CEO Steve Jobs last week. At a London press conference officially announcing the iPhone's availability in the UK he said “It’s a cat and mouse game. We play it on iPods with DRM. We try to stay ahead. I’m not sure if we are the cat or the mouse. People will try to break in, and it’s our job to stop them breaking in.”
Despite the contradictory company statements, one major clue seems to stand out. Although the unlocked phones become inactive after the update, and can't even be used on AT&T's network, they can still make emergency (911) calls, as mandated by the FCC. In other words, the one thing that would have ensured a government investigation if it didn't work is the only thing that does. Though this certainly doesn't prove anything conclusively, it does raise legitimate questions that someone in the government should be asking.
Unless it can be proven that Apple is intentionally targeting unlocked iPhones with their updates, consumers have little or no recourse. If, however, a government investigation were to find that this is exactly what Apple is doing, it would drag the practices of tech companies like Apple (and many others) into the light for the kind of public scrutiny most other industries face.
If the scenario were truly one of an automobile manufacturer getting paid to ensure their cars only accepted gas from a single company there would be hearings in Congress starting next week. If it was determined to be legal, you can be sure a law would quickly be passed to outlaw it. Instead, since it's computer technology, which to paraphrase author Arthur C. Clarke seems indistinguishable from magic to lawmakers, the public appears to be left to their own devices for solving the problem.
A warranty that's void because of tampering with a device is fairly standard and certainly legal, although perhaps morally questionable when it comes to simple software modifications. Taking advantage of that to break legally purchased devices because their use runs counter to the manufacturer's business model isn't standard. If this is, in fact, Apple's strategy it also removes any questions about the plans immorality. If they want to keep their grip on the mobile device market apparently considered key to the company's future plans, they'd be well advised to consider all their customers, including the ones who think their $400 phone should work on any compatible network they choose.
Sources:
MacWorld
Digital Daily
Wired
Gizmodo
Permalink to this article
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Related articles:
iPhone criticized by security community (23 October 2007)
Hackers attempt to reverse iPhone update effects (3 October 2007)
Woman sues Apple over iPhone price cut (1 October 2007)
O2 deal for iPhone exclusivity in UK is terrible (18 September 2007)
Free iPhone unlock software released (11 September 2007)
iTunes attempts to block free ringtones (8 September 2007)
Apple offers $100 credit to early adopter iPhone buyers (6 September 2007)
Apple unveils new iPods & cuts $200 from iPhone price (5 September 2007)
Teen unlocks iPhone from AT&T (26 August 2007)
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| svtstang (AfterDawn Addict) 29 September 2007 17:21 |
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I have read some ludicrous posts in this thread...most notably the comparisson of Nike shoes...just wow.
You buy the phone, you agree to terms of service. You know the phone is locked to AT&T. You decide to be mr. cool guy and unlock it, good for you. Oh no's, the new update bricked your phone?? Guess what, YOU MODIFIED THE DAMN FIRMWARE, releasing Apple of any contractual obligation with respect to your phone. Now, if this is bricking non modified iphone's then it is a whole different ballgame. If it is only people who modded their phones.... play with fire and get burned
/me remembers the MS banning Live thread from months ago
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29 September 2007 17:22
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| webe123 (Inactive) 29 September 2007 17:44 |
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Originally posted by svtstang: I have read some ludicrous posts in this thread...most notably the comparisson of Nike shoes...just wow.
You buy the phone, you agree to terms of service. You know the phone is locked to AT&T. You decide to be mr. cool guy and unlock it, good for you. Oh no's, the new update bricked your phone?? Guess what, YOU MODIFIED THE DAMN FIRMWARE, releasing Apple of any contractual obligation with respect to your phone. Now, if this is bricking non modified iphone's then it is a whole different ballgame. If it is only people who modded their phones....play with fire and get burned
/me remembers the MS banning Live thread from months ago
GUESS what? You can also take them to court and have a JUDGE order that the monoply on it be dropped! Because all this is doing, is forcing customers to use ONE SERVICE with this phone.
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| plazma247 (Junior Member) 29 September 2007 17:45 |
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Sorry svtstang, i come from the UK where:
1. It is a legal requirement to for your mobile provider to provide a means of unlocking your phone 6 months into your contract - at your request.
2. It is ILLEGAL to alter the IMEI number of a cellular device in the UK. This is clearly established and Apple themselves will be violating the law if their software update alters this number.
Where whats just happened with the update in the US will be impacted when the phones come in to the UK on O2 and they have to provide this unlocking feature.
Xbox live is an online gaming platform, its not like xbox live then killed your xbox from playing offline games/dvd etc.
Its not really the same thing is it, ok the shoes wasnt that great what i was trying to get across was the fact that once i had got the phone it was mine and if i break it its my fault, i accept that, i wasnt trying to portray the overall scenario of the iphone update.
However can you show me where another device with a modified firmware is then bricked by reloading an original firmware.
Ive updated a firmware on just about every device i can think of and no where can i think of an official firmware ever breaking a non offical firmware after an update.
The PSP is the same flash a non official firmware with an official time without a problem.
In fact in many case the way to unbrick an over tooled device is to reload the official rom.
This is the case as a firmware should completely overwrite the existing firmware.
Having read some other forums it would appear the problem is with the activation of the unlocked phones, however its been confirmed that unlocked phones are actually still network unlocked after the firmware 1.1.1 update. Although they wont activate it reported people have been able to get to the provider info to check its still actually connecting to the celluar network level but not getting past the activation lock (apples new addition to celluar locking). Which says to me its breaking because its either detecting the hack or/and not fully updating the firmware.
In the case of the reports of apple chaning the software imei to report the phone going into lockdown mode, if confirmed would mean they are really detecting the hack or in anycase will be breaking the law if the same will apply this to the iphones coming to the uk.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29 September 2007 18:13
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| barontc56 (Newbie) 29 September 2007 21:16 |
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Since the beginning Apple has tried to control the market through marketing equipment that was soon outdated just a small amount so you would be forced to buy all over again. They also try to micromanage what software will run. This I-POD flap is a perfect example of the sneaky way Apple operates and the reason I built CLONES for years and use whatever software. Apple is its own worst enemy and I will not buy their products.
Since some of you guys have hacked the original fireware can't you hack the Apple Destroyerware? Let freedom ring and I think the shoes were a GOOD comparison.
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| barontc56 (Newbie) 29 September 2007 21:27 |
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Originally posted by barontc56: Since the beginning Apple has tried to control the market through marketing equipment that was soon outdated just a small amount so you would be forced to buy all over again. They also try to micromanage what software will run. This I-Phone flap is a perfect example of the sneaky way Apple operates and the reason I built CLONES for years and use whatever software. Apple is its own worst enemy and I will not buy their products.
Since some of you guys have hacked the original firmware can't you hack the Apple Destroyerware? Let freedom ring and I think the shoes were a GOOD comparison.
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| ChiknLitl (Member) 29 September 2007 22:52 |
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Originally posted by plazma247: sheri1983 lol your not on apples payrol are you...
Anyway, doesnt matter if they say might, did and will is more the case, and you can call the people fools that ran the update.
But necessity is the mother of all invention :)
A fix is now right round the corner ;)
Amen brother! Sheesh, can we get a break around here. As for the comparison between MS live and this situation, the MS Live update bricked modded consoles that allowed for game ISO's, apple loses nothing by having people use unlocked phones as you are already locked into the contract with AT&T and have already paid apple their fair share.
Edit: Before I get slammed on it, I was reminded that the Live update only locked the modded boxes out of Live not bricked the console. Thanks Plazma
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30 September 2007 8:42
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| WierdName (Senior Member) 30 September 2007 13:29 |
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Personally, I think everyone is in the wrong. The modders screwed around with their phone, it got locked from an update, that's that. You broke your contract and now have no legal ground. However, Apple should not have put updates out that would lock a modded phone. It is pretty obvious that the update was meant to do that, possibly among other stuff, because it is not bricked and it can still make 911 calls as per the FCC regulation. Part/all of the update was meant to lock up modded phones. This is simply Apple being a [high pitch ring] to it's customer base that does not want to have to only use AT&T with their $600 phone. Back to the other side of the issue though, the modders did in fact break their warranty contract by modding the phone. As Svtstang said, you play with fire, you're gonna get burned. The only thing is that Apple jumped out of the ambulance with a blow torch...
Point is, the modders have no legal ground (other than a loophole), and Apple is just morally being a [high pitch ring].
Edit- Grammer/Spelling
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30 September 2007 13:37
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| webe123 (Inactive) 30 September 2007 15:17 |
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Originally posted by WierdName: Point is, the modders have no legal ground (other than a loophole), and Apple is just morally being a [high pitch ring].
But they DO have an alternative! They can go to court and let a judge know that apple is trying to force a monoply of service on it's customers!
Apple putting a clause in their user contract does not maan anything. Nor does it automatically make it legal.Everyone just assumes it is, because it is in their contract. Not so.
There have been other legal cases that because a company had something in their contract, people thought it must have been legal. Until it was challenged in court and the company lost...then it was the company that had to backpedal.
So I do not agree with the thinking that because it is in a contract you sign, it is automatically legal!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30 September 2007 15:20
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| plazma247 (Junior Member) 30 September 2007 15:25 |
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The phone is bricked, it wont function as normal... bricked is a very lose term applied by moddes to flashs which went wrong.
ok originally its was used for a device which wouldnt startup, but as the years pass by this term has been used in very loose way.
Its possible to completely brick a device and also possible in most cases to recover a bricked device.
no legal ground "other than a loophole" ?
What loop hole....
I think you will find they never broke their contract, the would have still had to continue paying for the service contract which they agreed to be signed up to for 18 months.
However the phones owned out right from day 1, which means you should by right be able to do what you want with it, even if its something that will invalidate the warwanty, as long as you continue to let the mobile contract runs it term and then cancel, you are not breaking contract term (agreed period of contract).
So if your saying that its not legal for me to put that sim into another phone (not the iphone) and use it with my contract which came with the iphone, thats fine. So why should it be any diffirent to do the reverse of this and put the iphone on another provider just as long as i keep paying the contract that came with the iphone.
As webe123 said even tho they have possibily added something to that effect to the contract doesnt mean its legal.
As i said before this is the first time that an offical firmware has rendeded a moded device inoperable after a flash as far im aware, with every other device an original firmware is whats used to unbrick them.
I think anyone who keeps on saying the modders should just accept it blah blah are being too narrow sighted to be able to look at the bigger picture.
Its the fact apple has done something that not really been done before in the electronics world, the xbox hack detect was close in a lose sort of way to this but its not really anything on the same level as apples lock it all down approach.
Anyway the other side to this will be the legalities to the current iphone tactics as the phone starts to appear across the rest of the world in the coming months and weeks.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30 September 2007 15:35
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| nanu-nanu (Member) 30 September 2007 15:43 |
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where/are the updates mandatory?
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| borhan9 (AfterDawn Addict) 30 September 2007 17:43 |
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Well the iphone needs to have more flexibility for consumers before it can really make its mark it needs not to be exclusive but it needs to be inclusive.
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| svtstang (AfterDawn Addict) 30 September 2007 18:32 |
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A monopoly? You have made valid points prior to this, but this is a false statement. When did an exclusivity clause become a monopoly? The iPhone is Apple's creation, if they so wish to only allow a certain service provider to use the product then they can. By doing so they are not single handily taking over the mobile phone market. I am not phone savvy but I can assure you there are other phone models that are exclusive to individual provider's.
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| WierdName (Senior Member) 30 September 2007 19:47 |
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Maybe I should restate what I was saying. I meant that the modders have no legal standpoint because they modded their phones which voided the hardware's warranty. However, the update was a load of B.S. and Apple locking the phone to AT&T- and other companies locking phones too- is also bull. But from a legal standpoint, the modders are screwed because they can't defend themselves because they modded their phones. And what I meant by loophole was something unforeseen that can turn the issue around and give the modders the high ground. This could be something like proving that Apple did in fact screw them over by purposely bricking their phones.
Edit- Also, when I say it's bull to lock the phones to specific carriers, I mean that it is just a nice way to screw over the consumers after they purchase the phone. It is however, perfectly legal for them to make a phone network exclusive but I think there is a law limiting for how long a phone can remain locked before it has to be unlocked per the customers request.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30 September 2007 19:50
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| morguex (Inactive) 3 October 2007 13:29 |
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@svtstang and sheri1983
If I ever meet you two in real life, i will buy the beers.
I'm so sick and tired of people whinning about crap, they choose to screw up in the first place.
You bought the phone, you signed the contract, now live with it.
If you choose to mod the phone and a new update screws it up, who's fault is that? YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one forced you to buy the phone or sign the contract. PERIOD!!
But then some people just have to have the lasest and greatest crap out there.
Phew, now I feel a little better.
Peace all
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| plazma247 (Junior Member) 3 October 2007 14:45 |
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Funny thing is no one here actually said it bricked their phone, what the saner people have been trying to do is simply point out how this was a bold move by apple in doing something that has not been really done before.
But looking at :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust
The hat does sorta fit, its all down to personal opinion but it is intresting how this is viewed across the international devide, this view can be illustrated in the microsoft anti-trust case which won out in america but has failed numerious appleas in europe.
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| ThePastor (Junior Member) 3 October 2007 16:58 |
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The next time some Apple Geek tries to tell me how his Apple computer is superior to Windows and PC's I will send him this link to show exactly why the world cannot stand Apple no matter how good their shit is.
As long as they keep this crap up they will always be the "also ran" of the PC world.
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| svtstang (AfterDawn Addict) 3 October 2007 18:34 |
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Originally posted by morguex: @svtstang and sheri1983
If I ever meet you two in real life, i will buy the beers.
I'm so sick and tired of people whinning about crap, they choose to screw up in the first place.
You bought the phone, you signed the contract, now live with it.
If you choose to mod the phone and a new update screws it up, who's fault is that? YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one forced you to buy the phone or sign the contract. PERIOD!!
But then some people just have to have the lasest and greatest crap out there.
Phew, now I feel a little better.
Peace all
:)
People love to blame others for their own mistakes, this thread more then proves that idea. I so agree with you it is not funny! By all means feel free to do whatever you want with your possessions since you paid cash that you worked hard for to buy the said possession, but take a reality check when something goes wrong that would have otherwise not of happened if in fact you didn't tamper with the product. I feel for all those with unmodified iphone's that experience problems due to the update, but have 0 compassion for people who screwed with the firmware. Sorry.
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| Askar (Newbie) 5 October 2007 6:46 |
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I don't think that devices should be linked to specific services if you have purchased them outright. In the U.S. though, most phones are not purchased outright, they are given at a steep discount in exchange for using the specific service. I don't know if the Iphone is similar since I have never had any interest in buying anything from Apple. All I can really say is, it was never hidden in any way from consumers that buying the Iphone meant having to use AT&T. If you go out and unlock it with software not approved under the contract, you have nobody to blame but yourself, even if Apple's update did intentionally make it not work. Just because some hacker put out a piece of software making the phone capable of being used on other networks doesn't make it legal for you to do so. If you don't want to use AT&T, then buy a phone from some other company. All that being said, I do think Apple should at least offer a firmware to reset it to original working order, even if the morons who modded the phone have to buy it. This whole thing just makes me glad I never thought of buying their silly phone.
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| Messaline (Newbie) 5 October 2007 8:04 |
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Originally posted by svtstang: A monopoly? You have made valid points prior to this, but this is a false statement. When did an exclusivity clause become a monopoly? The iPhone is Apple's creation, if they so wish to only allow a certain service provider to use the product then they can. By doing so they are not single handily taking over the mobile phone market. I am not phone savvy but I can assure you there are other phone models that are exclusive to individual provider's.
Actually , That is untrue in the US. The iPhone is Apple's creation, and they can require that you buy it from certain places, and offer incentives to do so, and anything else would be considered "Grey market" goods . However, under US Law, those iPhones intended for the US Market, including those sold thru AT&T, are also required to be sold unlocked. If AT&T requires a contract to purchase one, or to get one for $499 instead of $699 , so be it. The Law clearly states that if a customer chooses to buy a particular phone (ANY PHONE) , especially if it's only offered from one carrier, and pay both the activation and either the continuing operating fees OR pay the EARLY termination fees , then it is entirely within our rights as consumers to do so .
THAT is the relevent law regarding changing carriers on an iPhone. Apple and AT&T choose to blatently ignore this law, which went into effect in the second half of 2007.
It does not however protect owners of bricked modded phones. Bricked Modded phones are the owners problem. Personally I would dispose of it as quickly as possable, and destroy the evidence. No one has tried the legal defence of "Apple broke the law, I was trying to undo it" as a defence of breaking the anti- DRM-hacking clause of the DMCA provisions of the renewed Patriot Act. and if they have, it's been kept hush hush just like all the other Patriot Act "holdings" & trials. Even the RIAA and MPAA violaters fall under purvue of the new Patriot Act. Someone in (I think it was in) Kentucky was even arrested by the Feds on DMCA and fought extradition to Gitmo and all of a sudden the news dropped it. Go figure.
/Edit/
I forgot to add..... PrePay/ Pay as you go Phones are still allowed to be locked, for obvious reasons.
(Edited for Typos)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5 October 2007 14:03
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| Messaline (Newbie) 5 October 2007 8:34 |
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And, For good measure, I would expect all those $599/$699 First-day iPhone buyers, bought the iPhone expecting Apple to comply with the law and be sold unlocked, and were perfectly willing to foot the $200 AT&T early-termination fee.
Seriously, if you have $600 to shell for a gadget, you'd be just as likely to have the extra $200 to make the gadget work on any network you've chosen.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5 October 2007 8:52
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| morguex (Inactive) 5 October 2007 12:17 |
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The bottom line is these people bought these phones,they signed the contract, they modded them, now they don't work, so to them I say "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa". Go cry to someone who cares, because it sure isn't me.
Why am I in This percorpse state?
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| plazma247 (Junior Member) 5 October 2007 12:56 |
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Yawn, someone nudge morguex i think the needle is stuck again.
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| Messaline (Newbie) 5 October 2007 13:56 |
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Originally posted by plazma247: Yawn, someone nudge morguex i think the needle is stuck again.
LOL i was thinking the same thing.. Plus, if he/she doesn't care, so very much, WTf does it keep returning to this thread?
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| morguex (Inactive) 5 October 2007 14:13 |
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@plazma247 and Messaline
LOL, yeah I do rant on sometimes.
But when you screw with stuff and it dosen't work afterwards, don't whine about it.
Anyway Peace all
Why am I in This percorpse state?
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| Messaline (Newbie) 5 October 2007 14:28 |
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Originally posted by morguex: @plazma247 and Messaline
LOL, yeah I do rant on sometimes.
But when you screw with stuff and it dosen't work afterwards, don't whine about it.
Anyway Peace all
LOL Right back atcha. :) and I agree about the Modded ones.
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| duke8888 (Junior Member) 5 October 2007 14:30 |
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This months PC World had an article of a company that offers software for $99 that hacks the phone for most carriers but they have a disclaomer that when they updat the Iphones you need to rebuy their software to keep ahead of the updates. No thanks I have a couple of friends that have them and they hate them.....
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