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RIAA representative forecasts a comeback for DRM

8 May 2008 15:46 by Rich "vurbal" Fiscus | 30 comments

At the Digital Hollywood conference, where entertainment industry representatives are meeting to discuss technology and trends in digital content delivery, David Hughes of the RIAA made bold statements about the future of DRM. Despite a clear move toward selling DRM-free music by every major label Hughes, the RIAA's Senior Vice President of Technology, says DRM is far from dead, and even intimated that it's nearly impossible to make money on digital music without it.

"(Recently) I made a list of the 22 ways to sell music, and 20 of them still require DRM," said Hughes. He added "Any form of subscription service or limited play-per-view or advertising offer still requires DRM. So DRM is not dead."

Fritz Attaway, of the MPAA had a slightly different perspective. He characterized DRM as a tool to make sure consumers understand the licensing content is released under, saying "We need DRM to show our customers the limits of the license they have entered into with us."

The pro-DRM sentiment wasn't echoed by all the panelists though. Rajan Samtani, director of business development at digital watermark developer Digimarc Corp. and a former employee of ContentGuard, a company involved in creating DRM solutions, feels it's time for the entertainment industry to admit DRM doesn't work. He said "These kids have too many ways to get around DRM."

If Hughes is representative of the thinking at the RIAA is it any wonder that EMI doesn't think they're getting their money's worth from the trade group?

Permalink to this article | Topics: MP3 & Digital Audio Online music services

BioWare removes rolling DRM from upcoming games (12 May 2008)

Andersen wants to end the RIAA (5 May 2008)

Judge shuts down RIAA in music piracy case (30 April 2008)

Nokia adds Sony BMG to 'Comes With Music' plans (22 April 2008)

Music services pay high price to labels (5 April 2008)

7Digital to offer DRM-free downloads from Warner (5 March 2008)

Musician says RIAA reminds him of Mafia (23 February 2008)

RIAA to prosecutors: beware of crack dealing pirates (21 February 2008)

Play.com goes DRM-free in the UK (13 February 2008)

IFPI annual report praises labels for being forced to ditch DRM (24 January 2008)

EMI threatens IFPI - reorganize or we quit! (12 January 2008)

Warner adds its catalogue to Amazon MP3 store (27 December 2007)

Pepsi and Amazon to give away DRM free music (1 December 2007)

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iluvendo (Senior Member) 8 May 2008 16:45
@ Varnull, exactly " Mayans, WHO ??" If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck! "The flimsier the product,the higher the price" Ferengi 82nd rule of aquisition [ + quote]
goodswipe (Senior Member) 8 May 2008 16:48
Funny RIAA cartoon http://clintjcl.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/delme-riaa-comic.jpg "look honey, it said goodswipe! oh wow, that's amazing." [ + quote]
nobrainer (Member) 8 May 2008 17:08
roughly translated to: Sony, one of the key members of the RIAA/MPAA spreads fud about piricy to sell their crapware to media companies. *Quote:* Fritz Attaway, of the MPAA had a slightly different perspective. He characterized DRM as a tool to make sure consumers understand the licensing content is released under, saying "We need DRM to show our customers the limits of the license they have entered into with us." oh and btw "you" still don't own the media, only a licence to use it, you are not allowed to sell, lend or even give it away. DRM global price fixing tool used by the anti-consumer corporations! iPod tax: UK music biz open to format shifting... for a fee *Originally posted by link:* And then came hints that this apple might come with a serious worm. Early this year, the BPI again said all the right things about format shifting, but we noted that the Association of Independent Music was making noises; apparently, the group wanted to get paid whenever music was transferred from a CD to a portable device. The BPI Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The IFPI Are: The same anti consumer lot as listed above! The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8 May 2008 17:19
JRude (Newbie) 8 May 2008 18:08
Let's DRM vehicles! WHAT an idea! Ya don't OWN the car, just a license to go somewhere! Wanna use the Interstate? PAY! Want to go to the store? PAY! Wanna retrace a route? PAY! Want someone to go with you? PAY! Wanna load something in your car to take to old Aunt Thelma? PAY! Of COURSE, upgrades would be FORCED on you as you PAY yet again! The Internet, hardware & software are becoming just one BIG Tollbooth...FIGHT THE POWER! [ + quote]
emugamer (Junior Member) 8 May 2008 19:03
*Quote:* Fritz Attaway, of the MPAA had a slightly different perspective. He characterized DRM as a tool to make sure consumers understand the licensing content is released under, saying "We need DRM to show our customers the limits of the license they have entered into with us." I don't care what they say. I never entered into an agreement with them. I buy - it's mine. They lose all claim. *Quote:* The pro-DRM sentiment wasn't echoed by all the panelists though. Rajan Samtani, director of business development at digital watermark developer Digimarc Corp. and a former employee of ContentGuard, a company involved in creating DRM solutions, feels it's time for the entertainment industry to admit DRM doesn't work. He said "These kids have too many ways to get around DRM." Nice to still be considered a kid at 30 ;-) [ + quote]
sgriesch (Newbie) 8 May 2008 20:38
*Quote:* Nice to still be considered a kid at 30 ;-) I'm with you there! "(Recently) I made a list of the 22 ways to sell music, and 20 of them still require DRM," said Hughes. He added "Any form of subscription service or limited play-per-view or advertising offer still requires DRM. So DRM is not dead." This guy doesn't have a clue. DRM is not REQUIRED for anything except to be unfair to the consumer. It's up to the individual to obey laws. The industry needs to move past this because it sure isn't working, and it's never going to. [ + quote]
logan1957 (Newbie) 8 May 2008 21:43
David Hughes claims that DRM is only hibernating and he can see it coming back. Well, I hate to say it but he does have a clue, actually two clues, but one's lost and the other's out looking for it. I mean, it's obvious as everyone else realizes that DRM is dead and buried, but again the morons from the RIAA can't see the forest for the trees.When are they gonna learn that they don't control the world and everything in it. Just because they want it to come back doesn't mean it's going to. EMI is waking up to the fact that these guys are complete and utter idiots, of course, anyone who thinks that burning a cd for your own use so it can be put on an MP3 player or ipod is copy right infringement needs a real dose of reality. The easiest way to hurt these clowns is not to buy music at all from them, then when the sales drop thru the floor, they can say "Well, it's piracy, pure and simple." None of them look at the real reason that their stock has hit bottom, the world has changed and their old business models are dead. Why would you buy a cd with two good songs on it when you can download your favorite artists entire repetoire for a small fee from the online music services and make your own compliation of good songs. Logan1957 [ + quote]
iluvendo (Senior Member) 8 May 2008 21:49
*Originally posted by logan1957:* David Hughes claims that DRM is only hibernating and he can see it coming back. Well, I hate to say it but he does have a clue, actually two clues, but one's lost and the other's out looking for it. I mean, it's obvious as everyone else realizes that DRM is dead and buried, but again the morons from the RIAA can't see the forest for the trees.When are they gonna learn that they don't control the world and everything in it. Just because they want it to come back doesn't mean it's going to. EMI is waking up to the fact that these guys are complete and utter idiots, of course, anyone who thinks that burning a cd for your own use so it can be put on an MP3 player or ipod is copy right infringement needs a real dose of reality. The easiest way to hurt these clowns is not to buy music at all from them, then when the sales drop thru the floor, they can say "Well, it's piracy, pure and simple." *Quote:* *None of them look at the real reason that their stock has hit bottom, the world has changed and their old business models are dead.* *This is the same reason the dinosaurs are gone* Why would you buy a cd with two good songs on it when you can download your favorite artists entire repetoire for a small fee from the online music services and make your own compliation of good songs. Logan1957 If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck! "The flimsier the product,the higher the price" Ferengi 82nd rule of aquisition [ + quote]
mspurloc (Junior Member) 9 May 2008 1:57
BREAKING NEWS RIAA representative is utterly clueless fossil. Film at 11. Execution at dawn. [ + quote]
Statik (Junior Member) 9 May 2008 2:37
Why on earth would I pay for something, just that they can "show me the limits of the license I did not want to enter into". [ + quote]
maryjayne (Junior Member) 9 May 2008 8:01
Logic: if you can come up with 22 ways to market music and 20 use DRM and the customer does not like DRM, then why not explore the 2 ideas that satisfy the customer to increase your customer base to increase potential sales? Just goes to show the RIAA does not want anyone to have music. They just want you to give them your money. [ + quote]
varnull (Senior Member) 9 May 2008 8:33
Which is why I either pirate everything.. or buy used from junk shops and sales.. You will not see me contributing to a business model that behaves like this... and I'm certainly not going to buy another massive house for one of them talentless media created ------ ------------- you see all the time on Cribs. I like the word "Fossil".. trouble is.. a fossil is most certainly DEAD, whereas these neanderthal throwbacks can buy OUR representatives with the money they have STOLEN from us.... Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work.... #1 image again.. check it out ;) [ + quote]
FredBun (Senior Member) 9 May 2008 13:24
I Agree with emugamer, he hit it right on the money, I bought the damn thing, its mine, as long as I do not share it, sell it, how I decide to listen to it is my damn bussines, and if that's still breaking the law, than the law can kiss my ass. [ + quote]
nobrainer (Member) 9 May 2008 15:28
*Originally posted by FredBun:* I Agree with emugamer, he hit it right on the money, I bought the damn thing, its mine, as long as I do not share it, sell it, how I decide to listen to it is my damn bussines, and if that's still breaking the law, than the law can kiss my ass. as you've probably guessed i agree, but that's not how the media companies see it, they want you to pay and pay again which is what DRM is really used for, its a global price fixing tool. the same can be said for format shifting which is illegal, they force you to purchase your media again and again and again and drm is what is used to facilitate this anti-consumer business practice. read my above post about how the bpi (ifpi, riaa) want to be paid ever time you move media you own, from one device to another. The BPI Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The IFPI Are: The same anti consumer lot as listed above! The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9 May 2008 15:31
iluvendo (Senior Member) 9 May 2008 18:40
Ironic, while reading this thread and the last post, this ad pops up License Digital Rights Control Access to Digital Content with Our Digital Rights Management! www.Macrovision.com Talk about karma ! If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck! "The flimsier the product,the higher the price" Ferengi 82nd rule of aquisition [ + quote]
Blackjax (Member) 10 May 2008 0:48
@iluvendo Uh oh better check your system for spyware! <:O [ + quote]
cousinkix (Newbie) 10 May 2008 6:11
I'm noy buying anything with DRM on it period. We recently forked over $100.00 for a new boxset, by an artist who doesn't use this BS on their licensed products. We had NO problems ripping some of this music to the computers or MP-3 players at all. Nobody gives a damn what brands or models I use either. So I buy my music from people, who don't have their heads stuck up their butts sideways. And this boxset was distributed by a major company, which proves that long established artists sometimes prohibit the use of DRM on their music. To Hell with that RIAA idiot if he doesn't like it... [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10 May 2008 6:14
iluvendo (Senior Member) 11 May 2008 2:38
I just wonder just what the RIAA has been smokin'. Must be some pretty good stuff. [ + quote]
untrsb (Newbie) 11 May 2008 3:05
Could you also bring back 8 tracks and perhaps beta-max? [ + quote]
plazma247 (Newbie) 11 May 2008 8:48
I think Hughes greatly overlooks is the fact the development of DRM went: Public being unaware of what DRM was as it was not invented: DRM invented and introduced, public becomes aware of DRM DRM free systems appear and consumers vote with their feet. Today.. So if they re-introduce harder DRM what is the diffirence this time around.. well largely Joe Average has some understanding of what DRM is and means... which also means they are not going to be as easy to sell drm protection to.. as the first time they were blisfully unaware until they found they couldnt do something with it. Someone should give the entire DRM record player a big old nudge as i think the needle is stuck. Oh and Rajan Samtani mr oh drm doesnt work but buy into our digital watermarking system... well water marking has been shown to be removable in the past... so how is that any better. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11 May 2008 8:53
Mez (Member) 12 May 2008 8:30
mspurloc good one! varnull, even one better. Anyone buying a low quality DRMed tune gets what they deserve. Last week I heard someone compain they bought a few hundred bucks worth of tunes from Microsoft a few years back and that Microsoft was shutting down that DRM server this summer making his tunes unusable. He was complaining about the resorces needed to save his music. I told him the resorces were pentance. Maybe he would be smarter next time. That bozo got what he deserved, trusting Microsoft! Digital sales must be up if that retard wants to bring back the DRM. I say more power to him! Maybe Hughes should talk with Microsoft. I bet they could make a device that could kill your computer when you play the tune. I say why go piece meal, if you are going to wage war with your customers. [ + quote]
rob0t3ch (Inactive) 12 May 2008 11:49
Not gonna happen! IF it does then watch another MASSIVE increase in pirating again. Fellow file traders will rip their discs like it's going out of style and make available to the world that doesn't deal in DRM B.S. [ + quote]
nobrainer (Member) 12 May 2008 12:46
*Originally posted by Mez:* mspurloc good one! varnull, even one better. Anyone buying a low quality DRMed tune gets what they deserve. Last week I heard someone compain they bought a few hundred bucks worth of tunes from Microsoft a few years back and that Microsoft was shutting down that DRM server this summer making his tunes unusable. He was complaining about the resorces needed to save his music. I told him the resorces were pentance. Maybe he would be smarter next time. That bozo got what he deserved, trusting Microsoft!. and sony did it last year with their connect store and it was yahoo the year before that screwed their customers and there is more, Major League Baseball (switched DRM, nuking any video bought pre-2006), Google (killed video store, and any vids you bought), Virgin Digital, closed store, told customers to burn tracks to CDs and re-import as MP3, which is illegal in the UK and in the usa because part of the DMCA is that its illegal to circumvent any DRM. Now sony's anti consumer, orwellion, secuROM (screw ur rom) game DRM is even phoning home to DRM servers but a recent public outcry, got sonys draconian DRM pulled by the game develpoers for both spore and mass effect, just wait to see what happens with blu-ray 2.0 phone home authorisation of movies with their DRM! they want ppl to stop purchasing single tracks and commit to a subscription service so you can have all the media you want but with a drm time bomb while the riaa use your money to manufacture more britney spears type crap to pollute the airwaves with. The BPI Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI. The IFPI Are: The same anti consumer lot as listed above! The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12 May 2008 12:51
Mez (Member) 13 May 2008 7:24
nobrainer, so in a nut shell the companies selling DRM music don't respect the DRMs. I guess they figure their customers are suckers and that they should mop the floor with them. That sounds reasonable to me. The jackasses don't have a clue! How can you say this *Quote:* nearly impossible to make money on digital music without it and void DRMs? My guess is it is nearly impossible to make money on digital music with it. [ + quote]
plazma247 (Newbie) 13 May 2008 8:13
HEHE as an tangable thought, surely if said store shuts down and then tells customer to burn music to CD to re-extract, which is a naughty thing to do. Surely this also means that the companies who then retracted their drm services leaving customers unable to play their music and having to resort to naught practices were doing something intresting indead... ... and as software/music pirates are now labled under the same hat as a suicide bumber (T3RRORIZTS), doesnt this mean the companies that pulled the drm servers were creating a climate where t3rrorism was the only recourse and in some cases like virgin store they even incouraged people to participate in t3rrorizt actions.... Just another way to look at it... but using that school of though we the general public should ask that : DRM is dropped as it incites t3rrorisum RIAA and MPAA should stop using and t3rrorist and illigal tacktics to collect information about people Oh look at the other t3rrorizum that came from DRM, yes everyones forgotten Sonys system that then spawned the first Rootkit exploit, which is now one of the most comonly use system expliots for t3rrorizt spyware and data mining... Oh and what about CD prices, the over seas sellers that undercut the price fixing in the UK and other places received fines for selling under value rates.... in any other industry they would have been done for price fixing... but oh no this is the music industry and the companies which broke the price barrier was the bad guys.... maybe it was because these companies started to show us that the CDs could be cheaper and undermined the current price fixing. Maybe what the music industry needs is an open source record label who make all the music royalty free and a new pricing/funding model. All music played over the air is funded by advertising so the studio gets paid, the artist would get free advertising and public awareness. All music sold online is directly by label and fans can pay what they feel is a fair price or no price if they wish. Some of the money is made for the band/label from playing live gigs, appearances and franchised products. There is a new chart that is created, where people vote by simple text/phone and have a tiny charge applied for the vote, or alternativly they can submit for free by the website and money for that vote is recovered from advertising. A chart for the people by the people. Then the bands who make say the top 4 - 10 would get a percentage of the money generated by the voting... keep a track at no1 for 4 weeks you get a load of money still :) Just a though dont flame me, im not saying its a better model or even a possible model... just more a what if.... [ + quote]
Mez (Member) 13 May 2008 9:29
plazma247, good thoughts. There are endless way to do things better than what the industry is doing. This is actually a social commentary on the world's business. Big business is run by used car salesmen the world over. The corporate leaders got to where they are by being able to lie the most convincinly not by being a good leader. These peckerwoods controll everything! The music industry is at a distinct disadvantage. They have to compete with forces not controled by morons. That will be their undoing. [ + quote]