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Joel Tenenbaum fined $675,000 over copyright infringement

1 August 2009 19:52 by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz | 57 comments

After just three hours of deliberations, a jury has ruled that convicted pirate Joel Tenenbaum has willfully infringed on copyrights, and has awarded the RIAA and the media companies $675,000 USD, $22,500 for each of the 30 songs he admitted to sharing.

In some ways, Tenenbaum should be grateful, as the jury could have awarded up to $150,000 in penalties per track. In the recent ruling against Jammie Thomas-Rasset, the jury awarded the RIAA $1.92 million USD, on only 24 tracks.

Tenenbaums Harvard Law professor Charles Nesson added of the decision: "It's a bankrupting award."

"I'm disappointed, but not surprised, but I'm thankful that it wasn't much bigger, that it wasn't millions," Tenenbaum added, via Arstechnica. Tenenbaum also specifically noted that if he loses on appeal, he will be forced into bankruptcy.

On the other hand, the RIAA was ecstatic with the jury's decision: "We are grateful for the jury�s service and their recognition of the impact of illegal downloading on the music community. We appreciate that Mr. Tenenbaum finally acknowledged that artists and music companies deserve to be paid for their work. From the beginning that�s what this case has been about. We only wish he had done so sooner rather than lie about his illegal behavior."

Permalink to this article | Topic: Lawsuits & Legislation

70s Acts prepare for showdown over recordings (13 October 2009)

DOJ calls Jammie Thomas' $1.92 million file sharing fine "constitutional" (15 August 2009)

Joel Tenenbaum opens FAQ to help explain file sharing ruling (10 August 2009)

Pirate Bay sued by FPM, FIMI (2 August 2009)

Joel Tenenbaum is guilty of copyright infringement (31 July 2009)

RIAA denies DRM is "dead" quote (20 July 2009)

Jammie Rasset-Thomas to appeal damage award (2 July 2009)

Even RIAA witness 'shocked' by Jammie Thomas verdict (23 June 2009)

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rockabout (Newbie) 4 August 2009 1:49
check this out i want everybody to give me a buck for every copy of every song i write if you like it enough to copy it for yourself and a couple friends. if it brings people to your place of business split a buck with me dont use me for some cheap cause or rip-off scam or any negitave waves. i choose not to be antisocial although their are plenty of reasons to become that way. all im gonna do is give it away anyway. but thats my choice. it broke my heart to see children eating those mudd cakes and i will never forget how badly we have let them down. all of our efforts should be going to sharing the gift of life to all and to hell with those greedy mudering basterds. freedom of choice to give and share should and has saved us before and i sure hope it will save us now. [ + quote]
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 4 August 2009 1:55
*Originally posted by rockabout:* hey zippy sorry i got excited, it happens to me all the time. yaknow you might just have the answer. take the bite from the bandwidth.like the old blank tapes,or cds. give it to bmi,ascap,sesac,those guys. for the artists.let the web go free. or so to speak.not quite free not quite restricted. and then there are the add people,or the guys who use your stuff to get other peoples attention. i dont know sounds like a FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! Its give and take, they can have a tax on the net 10% or do so to computer hardware/media phones and dvd players and we get to share but not profit in what we share. Sure the media mafia gets some glorious regulatory BS the government can take 1-5 percent off of to run, but we keep our inherent freedoms free. At a price the powers may be can shallow.... [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4 August 2009 1:56
wahwah1 (Newbie) 4 August 2009 9:23
*Quote:* *Quote:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* Hey big_poppa, The RIAA needs to spend more time seeing that quality music gets made. If they didn't put out this "formula" music, where there is one good song on an album, and the rest is filler, there would be no need to sue someone for not buying it. People have had crap shoved in their faces for years. The music is based on market studies now. If you don't believe, look at american idol. I'm not saying there isn't any good music being made anymore, but more often than not, if it doesn't fit the "mold" it would be shoved aside. Because of their money and power, they are one of the few groups that can sue a poor person for these "hypothetical" damages and get away with it. Anyone who can't see this, needs to wake up and smell what they're shoveling. Just think if they could relax their white knuckle grip on the dollar, and just leave the making of music to the artists again. Call me crazy but I think their profits would spike, and there would be no need for these ridiculous lawsuits. Everyone would benefit. No one even questions the rights of privacy, or how these corporations obtain the information, to bring these suits. No search warrant, no court order in most cases, and they are able to look at whats on your machine. To me thats an invasion of privacy, but I guess in america our rights are eroding so quickly it probably doesn't matter. Interesting that the quality of music is not controlled by the RIAA. It is controlled by those who choose to steal music only for one song. The fact is real simple...if you like it buy it...and if you steal it...you are a thief. Plain and simple. A corporate RIAA shill if there ever was one. Go post it on your myspace page along with your mood and how life is so unfair. [ + quote]
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 4 August 2009 10:02
*Quote:* *Quote:* *Quote:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* Hey big_poppa, The RIAA needs to spend more time seeing that quality music gets made. If they didn't put out this "formula" music, where there is one good song on an album, and the rest is filler, there would be no need to sue someone for not buying it. People have had crap shoved in their faces for years. The music is based on market studies now. If you don't believe, look at american idol. I'm not saying there isn't any good music being made anymore, but more often than not, if it doesn't fit the "mold" it would be shoved aside. Because of their money and power, they are one of the few groups that can sue a poor person for these "hypothetical" damages and get away with it. Anyone who can't see this, needs to wake up and smell what they're shoveling. Just think if they could relax their white knuckle grip on the dollar, and just leave the making of music to the artists again. Call me crazy but I think their profits would spike, and there would be no need for these ridiculous lawsuits. Everyone would benefit. No one even questions the rights of privacy, or how these corporations obtain the information, to bring these suits. No search warrant, no court order in most cases, and they are able to look at whats on your machine. To me thats an invasion of privacy, but I guess in america our rights are eroding so quickly it probably doesn't matter. Interesting that the quality of music is not controlled by the RIAA. It is controlled by those who choose to steal music only for one song. The fact is real simple...if you like it buy it...and if you steal it...you are a thief. Plain and simple. A corporate RIAA shill if there ever was one. Go post it on your myspace page along with your mood and how life is so unfair. yawns you can't steal thought or information. [ + quote]
wahwah1 (Newbie) 4 August 2009 12:31
*Quote:* *Quote:* *Quote:* *Quote:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* Hey big_poppa, The RIAA needs to spend more time seeing that quality music gets made. If they didn't put out this "formula" music, where there is one good song on an album, and the rest is filler, there would be no need to sue someone for not buying it. People have had crap shoved in their faces for years. The music is based on market studies now. If you don't believe, look at american idol. I'm not saying there isn't any good music being made anymore, but more often than not, if it doesn't fit the "mold" it would be shoved aside. Because of their money and power, they are one of the few groups that can sue a poor person for these "hypothetical" damages and get away with it. Anyone who can't see this, needs to wake up and smell what they're shoveling. Just think if they could relax their white knuckle grip on the dollar, and just leave the making of music to the artists again. Call me crazy but I think their profits would spike, and there would be no need for these ridiculous lawsuits. Everyone would benefit. No one even questions the rights of privacy, or how these corporations obtain the information, to bring these suits. No search warrant, no court order in most cases, and they are able to look at whats on your machine. To me thats an invasion of privacy, but I guess in america our rights are eroding so quickly it probably doesn't matter. Interesting that the quality of music is not controlled by the RIAA. It is controlled by those who choose to steal music only for one song. The fact is real simple...if you like it buy it...and if you steal it...you are a thief. Plain and simple. A corporate RIAA shill if there ever was one. Go post it on your myspace page along with your mood and how life is so unfair. yawns you can't steal thought or information. It's too bad that you have neither in that myspace world. [ + quote]
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 4 August 2009 12:39
*Quote:* yawns you can't steal thought or information. It's too bad that you have neither in that myspace world. Which is why people buy all the crap they advertise. :P [ + quote]
llongtheD (Member) 4 August 2009 22:24
@ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water. [ + quote]
wahwah1 (Newbie) 5 August 2009 9:48
*Originally posted by llongtheD:* @ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. Hunh, so I guess in your world where "sharing" is legal...so what I wanted to share your food in your refrigerator...or perhaps your petrol in your car? So do not give me some lame emo excuse that since everyone is doing it, I can too. Got no spine to man up and work for something? Until you can find a better solution, it is stealing plain and simple. [ + quote]
DXR88 (Senior Member) 5 August 2009 14:58
*Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. Hunh, so I guess in your world where "sharing" is legal...so what I wanted to share your food in your refrigerator...or perhaps your petrol in your car? So do not give me some lame emo excuse that since everyone is doing it, I can too. Got no spine to man up and work for something? Until you can find a better solution, it is stealing plain and simple. if i gave you permission to take some food out of my fridge if i gave you permission to funnel gas out of my tank then yes its sharing. if one is to understand the concept one has to look at the very creation of P2P which by the original design was to take files chop them up into segments and upload them to all the computers in the network. the concept gets all whacked from there Uploading is considered sharing in P2P. what is being shared is another question. What big whig RIAA/MPAA have done is created a law that severely limits the use of p2p as a sharing infrastructure, by mandating,fear, and ties into the government. you probably don't even care, your one of those types that are always right. i used to be one in, in one point of my life. [ + quote]
llongtheD (Member) 5 August 2009 15:55
*Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. Hunh, so I guess in your world where "sharing" is legal...so what I wanted to share your food in your refrigerator...or perhaps your petrol in your car? So do not give me some lame emo excuse that since everyone is doing it, I can too. Got no spine to man up and work for something? Until you can find a better solution, it is stealing plain and simple. Where in any of my posts did I say I stole music or downloaded illeagally? That is a poor assumption that you have made on your own. It is exactly the type of attitude and corporate ideals you represent. The RIAA, a rich and powerful organization, has the attitude that the very people that put them in that position are stealing from them. Its a very paraniod view. Maybe they should change their viewpoint, and start treating the consumer like a customer again, instead of a thief. So why don't you man up and post something worthwhile, instead of accusing everyone of stealing. If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5 August 2009 15:56
wahwah1 (Newbie) 5 August 2009 17:39
*Originally posted by llongtheD:* *Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. Hunh, so I guess in your world where "sharing" is legal...so what I wanted to share your food in your refrigerator...or perhaps your petrol in your car? So do not give me some lame emo excuse that since everyone is doing it, I can too. Got no spine to man up and work for something? Until you can find a better solution, it is stealing plain and simple. Where in any of my posts did I say I stole music or downloaded illeagally? That is a poor assumption that you have made on your own. It is exactly the type of attitude and corporate ideals you represent. The RIAA, a rich and powerful organization, has the attitude that the very people that put them in that position are stealing from them. Its a very paraniod view. Maybe they should change their viewpoint, and start treating the consumer like a customer again, instead of a thief. So why don't you man up and post something worthwhile, instead of accusing everyone of stealing. Ahh yes, out of the mouth of babes. So you have never stolen a song? Wow...I am impressed. Your sad assumptions about being a "shill" whilst parroting remarks by someone else shows how unoriginal your thoughts are. Who should start treating the consumer like a customer? They are not the sellers or music. The members that are part of the RIAA do so on their own volition. They are protecting the people they serve...record companies not consumers. So why don't you look into what they do before you go posting another "I'm grumpy" on your myspace page. [ + quote]
llongtheD (Member) 5 August 2009 18:50
*Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* *Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. Hunh, so I guess in your world where "sharing" is legal...so what I wanted to share your food in your refrigerator...or perhaps your petrol in your car? So do not give me some lame emo excuse that since everyone is doing it, I can too. Got no spine to man up and work for something? Until you can find a better solution, it is stealing plain and simple. Where in any of my posts did I say I stole music or downloaded illeagally? That is a poor assumption that you have made on your own. It is exactly the type of attitude and corporate ideals you represent. The RIAA, a rich and powerful organization, has the attitude that the very people that put them in that position are stealing from them. Its a very paraniod view. Maybe they should change their viewpoint, and start treating the consumer like a customer again, instead of a thief. So why don't you man up and post something worthwhile, instead of accusing everyone of stealing. Ahh yes, out of the mouth of babes. So you have never stolen a song? Wow...I am impressed. Your sad assumptions about being a "shill" whilst parroting remarks by someone else shows how unoriginal your thoughts are. Who should start treating the consumer like a customer? They are not the sellers or music. The members that are part of the RIAA do so on their own volition. They are protecting the people they serve...record companies not consumers. So why don't you look into what they do before you go posting another "I'm grumpy" on your myspace page. Yet another uninformed and idiotic post by the corporate shill. You can continue your rants about how much you support the RIAA with someone else in this thread. I'm done responding to a close minded person like yourself. Oh yeah, and I didn't assume you were a shill, someone else in the thread did, then you opened your mouth and proved it. If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water. [ + quote] This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5 August 2009 18:52
wahwah1 (Newbie) 5 August 2009 19:09
*Originally posted by llongtheD:* *Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* *Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @ wahwah1 Dang, your are a corporate shill, windsong had you pegged. Hunh, so I guess in your world where "sharing" is legal...so what I wanted to share your food in your refrigerator...or perhaps your petrol in your car? So do not give me some lame emo excuse that since everyone is doing it, I can too. Got no spine to man up and work for something? Until you can find a better solution, it is stealing plain and simple. Where in any of my posts did I say I stole music or downloaded illeagally? That is a poor assumption that you have made on your own. It is exactly the type of attitude and corporate ideals you represent. The RIAA, a rich and powerful organization, has the attitude that the very people that put them in that position are stealing from them. Its a very paraniod view. Maybe they should change their viewpoint, and start treating the consumer like a customer again, instead of a thief. So why don't you man up and post something worthwhile, instead of accusing everyone of stealing. Ahh yes, out of the mouth of babes. So you have never stolen a song? Wow...I am impressed. Your sad assumptions about being a "shill" whilst parroting remarks by someone else shows how unoriginal your thoughts are. Who should start treating the consumer like a customer? They are not the sellers or music. The members that are part of the RIAA do so on their own volition. They are protecting the people they serve...record companies not consumers. So why don't you look into what they do before you go posting another "I'm grumpy" on your myspace page. Yet another uninformed and idiotic post by the corporate shill. You can continue your rants about how much you support the RIAA with someone else in this thread. I'm done responding to a close minded person like yourself. Oh yeah, and I didn't assume you were a shill, someone else in the thread did, then you opened your mouth and proved it. Where did I say "I support RIAA". Sad assumption based on someone that probably gets his/her info from a myspace page. It is a crime...plain and simple. There is a great Chinese saying that fits..."To scare the monkey, you kill the chicken" I bet you all those emo's out there will be thinking twice before they start uploading music because they want to "share" [ + quote]
llongtheD (Member) 5 August 2009 21:14
@wahwah, I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your last post was hilarious. To scare the monkey, you kill the chicken!? LOL. Translation, if they don't buy it, sue them into bankruptcy. So you support the RIAA's fear and intimidation tactics? I won't make any assumptions, its a question. There is one thing that is for certain, the RIAA's tactics have made them look evil in the public eye. Not to you I am aware, but you are in the minority. I'm also not sure where you come up with these my space references, I don't even have an account, you obviously do. I guess that is another child like attempt to discredit someone who can actually think for themselves, instead of being led around like a sheep by the RIAA's propoganda. If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water. [ + quote]
DXR88 (Senior Member) 5 August 2009 22:43
*Originally posted by llongtheD:* @wahwah, I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your last post was hilarious. To scare the monkey, you kill the chicken!? LOL. Translation, if they don't buy it, sue them into bankruptcy. So you support the RIAA's fear and intimidation tactics? I won't make any assumptions, its a question. There is one thing that is for certain, the RIAA's tactics have made them look evil in the public eye. Not to you I am aware, but you are in the minority. I'm also not sure where you come up with these my space references, I don't even have an account, you obviously do. I guess that is another child like attempt to discredit someone who can actually think for themselves, instead of being led around like a sheep by the RIAA's propoganda. Why waist your time, there are more productive things for you to do like steal the latest copy of your favorite bands album, amiright. [ + quote]
llongtheD (Member) 5 August 2009 23:28
*Originally posted by DXR88:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @wahwah, I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your last post was hilarious. To scare the monkey, you kill the chicken!? LOL. Translation, if they don't buy it, sue them into bankruptcy. So you support the RIAA's fear and intimidation tactics? I won't make any assumptions, its a question. There is one thing that is for certain, the RIAA's tactics have made them look evil in the public eye. Not to you I am aware, but you are in the minority. I'm also not sure where you come up with these my space references, I don't even have an account, you obviously do. I guess that is another child like attempt to discredit someone who can actually think for themselves, instead of being led around like a sheep by the RIAA's propoganda. Why waist your time, there are more productive things for you to do like steal the latest copy of your favorite bands album, amiright. Your absolutely right DRX88, enough said. If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water. [ + quote]
wahwah1 (Newbie) 6 August 2009 8:20
*Originally posted by DXR88:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @wahwah, I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your last post was hilarious. To scare the monkey, you kill the chicken!? LOL. Translation, if they don't buy it, sue them into bankruptcy. So you support the RIAA's fear and intimidation tactics? I won't make any assumptions, its a question. There is one thing that is for certain, the RIAA's tactics have made them look evil in the public eye. Not to you I am aware, but you are in the minority. I'm also not sure where you come up with these my space references, I don't even have an account, you obviously do. I guess that is another child like attempt to discredit someone who can actually think for themselves, instead of being led around like a sheep by the RIAA's propoganda. Why waist your time, there are more productive things for you to do like steal the latest copy of your favorite bands album, amiright. Waist...hmmm...did you fail english as well as ethics classes. What is the mood today on your myspace page...giddy. Is your last statement a question or a statement...or both? I am not so sure that with your limited knowledge of anything but your self centered world that you can tell the difference much less phrase anything into a logical argument. What did the RIAA do to you, DRM your Britney albums so where you cant share it on date night with your other panty waste friends? [ + quote]
7sons (Newbie) 6 August 2009 8:23
was tenenbaum hired by the riaa to take the fall? was he paid front money for the FINE? [ + quote]
7sons (Newbie) 6 August 2009 17:41
*Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by DXR88:* *Originally posted by llongtheD:* @wahwah, I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your last post was hilarious. To scare the monkey, you kill the chicken!? LOL. Translation, if they don't buy it, sue them into bankruptcy. So you support the RIAA's fear and intimidation tactics? I won't make any assumptions, its a question. There is one thing that is for certain, the RIAA's tactics have made them look evil in the public eye. Not to you I am aware, but you are in the minority. I'm also not sure where you come up with these my space references, I don't even have an account, you obviously do. I guess that is another child like attempt to discredit someone who can actually think for themselves, instead of being led around like a sheep by the RIAA's propoganda. Why waist your time, there are more productive things for you to do like steal the latest copy of your favorite bands album, amiright. Waist...hmmm...did you fail english as well as ethics classes. What is the mood today on your myspace page...giddy. Is your last statement a question or a statement...or both? I am not so sure that with your limited knowledge of anything but your self centered world that you can tell the difference much less phrase anything into a logical argument. What did the RIAA do to you, DRM your Britney albums so where you cant share it on date night with your other panty waste friends? [ + quote]
7sons (Newbie) 6 August 2009 17:47
LET ME POSE A QUESTION TO YOU. IF I AM AT YOUR HOUSE LISTENING TO YOUR MUSIC THAT YOU LEGALLY BOUGHT OR DOWNLOADED, AND I LIKED SOME TRACKS, WOULD YOU BURN ME A COPY OF THAT MUSIC? IF YOUR ANSWER IS NO, YOU'RE A LIAR!!! EVERYONE DOES IT FOR THEIR FRIENDS. P2P IS JUST THIS IN AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE! [ + quote]
binkie7 (Moderator) 6 August 2009 21:34
Let's knock off the attitudes and insults. If you can't manage that than move along elsewhere on the net. And no ALL caps posts - try moving your pinky to the left and turning the caps lock OFF. Forum Rules Do this before posting Do not click this link... [ + quote]
varnull (Inactive) 6 August 2009 21:39
I give my music away.. that which I own anyway.. that is only about 20% of my total output over the years.. some of these cartel companies still think they own my work even though it sits there unavailable because they don't consider it profitable enough FOR THEM... That means I can't let you have it without getting sued for releasing MY WORK for no profit. To get it back will cost me a small fortune.. yet it's my work and my property in the long run. I own the IP and I own the copyright.. it's MY WORK.. not theirs and the way I see it is this.. IF they have discontinued it because they don't see millions in profits for them then why shouldn't I be allowed to change the licensing to copyleft and just give it away? Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. I would rather you hate me for who I am than love me for what I am not. �It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state.� - Bruce Schneier [ + quote]
7sons (Newbie) 7 August 2009 11:49
sorry, not intentional. won't happen again [ + quote]
wahwah1 (Newbie) 7 August 2009 13:12
*Originally posted by varnull:* I give my music away.. that which I own anyway.. that is only about 20% of my total output over the years.. some of these cartel companies still think they own my work even though it sits there unavailable because they don't consider it profitable enough FOR THEM... That means I can't let you have it without getting sued for releasing MY WORK for no profit. To get it back will cost me a small fortune.. yet it's my work and my property in the long run. I own the IP and I own the copyright.. it's MY WORK.. not theirs and the way I see it is this.. IF they have discontinued it because they don't see millions in profits for them then why shouldn't I be allowed to change the licensing to copyleft and just give it away? Did the RIAA or record companies come put a gun to your head when you wanted to make money off your recordings? I do see the POV in burning a copy of songs whilst playing for someone in the house...but when it comes to the blatant misuse of this via P2P that is where the line is drawn. How many copies do you think make into hands of people that sell these for profits in China, India, etc? [ + quote]
ZippyDSM (AfterDawn Addict) 7 August 2009 13:21
*Originally posted by wahwah1:* *Originally posted by varnull:* I give my music away.. that which I own anyway.. that is only about 20% of my total output over the years.. some of these cartel companies still think they own my work even though it sits there unavailable because they don't consider it profitable enough FOR THEM... That means I can't let you have it without getting sued for releasing MY WORK for no profit. To get it back will cost me a small fortune.. yet it's my work and my property in the long run. I own the IP and I own the copyright.. it's MY WORK.. not theirs and the way I see it is this.. IF they have discontinued it because they don't see millions in profits for them then why shouldn't I be allowed to change the licensing to copyleft and just give it away? Did the RIAA or record companies come put a gun to your head when you wanted to make money off your recordings? I do see the POV in burning a copy of songs whilst playing for someone in the house...but when it comes to the blatant misuse of this via P2P that is where the line is drawn. How many copies do you think make into hands of people that sell these for profits in China, India, etc? The only blatant misuse of file shearing is when people are making money off it. Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people". http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/ [ + quote]
joe777 (Member) 7 August 2009 17:54
*Originally posted by varnull:* I give my music away.. that which I own anyway.. that is only about 20% of my total output over the years.. some of these cartel companies still think they own my work even though it sits there unavailable because they don't consider it profitable enough FOR THEM... That means I can't let you have it without getting sued for releasing MY WORK for no profit. To get it back will cost me a small fortune.. yet it's my work and my property in the long run. I own the IP and I own the copyright.. it's MY WORK.. not theirs and the way I see it is this.. IF they have discontinued it because they don't see millions in profits for them then why shouldn't I be allowed to change the licensing to copyleft and just give it away? Hey varnull I dont understand whats happening with your music and the rights to it matey. Could you explain please, cause I have written a few songs and plan to get them registered to me so I can release them and I need a little help. Cheers, joey [ + quote]