</i>I was watching some TV program called "The Bill" (Known to a few of us from UK) and there was a guy who was convicted of illegally downloading and distributing movies and music.He was sentenced to 4 years in jail. <i>

1) "The Bill" is a fictional drama series like "Law and Order"
2) The FICTIONAL eposde you mention the guy went to jail for having CD copying machinery and making physical copies of disks. http://www.thebill.com/episodes/episode_358.html

<i> I find it hard to believe nobody has been sued for this in the US (as one user said).</i>
<i> if it's illegal to download copyrighted material, then what about making a back-up? </i>

For downloading? no one in the US has ever been successfully sued or criminally prosecuted.

someone would have to fall into a sting where they were unequivocally and directly being informed by someone else that the material was under copyright and that the rights did not extend to downloading.

Otherwise you simply cannot prove intent which would be needed.

If you look at the various press releases from the RIAA and the mpaa which intentionally obfuscate between uploading and downloading, as well as news outlets that don't understand the terminology, you might think there have been suits or prosecutions for downlaoding, but the FACT is it is not the case.

Look for example at the morons at the Times of London:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1841351,00.html on this same story:
"Lawyers set sights on film downloading"
Err, no, the guy was uploading and ALSO selling the films for a fee!

there was also an uploader in sweden convicted yesterday but no downloaders.

This just seems a bit harsh for a non-violent crime,
same thing happened to the poor guy who uploaded star wars III earlier this year, he has jail time here in the states ,meanwhile the guy who physicially took the copy from the studio has nothing but fines .
Greed thats all it is , pay for our shitty movies and music or..we sue you

Mik3h I watch the Bill too!

Fantastic show lol

Jin666

The Bill is a fictional program but it is good.

What happened to the cd guy:

"PC Dan Casper and PC Amber Johannsen investigate a case of CD piracy. They discover CD burning equipment and hundreds of CDs in a house and John Orme is arrested for illegally downloading and distributing the music. Dan is convinced that Orme is covering for somebody else and is determined to find out who."

Jin666

Where was that 12 yr old girl from that downloaded the music, she went to some kind of Catholic school or lived in the convent...hard to remember but I think she may have lived there, anyway, she was sued for like 1,000.00 or something...wish I could remember. Found it..here is the story...OMG..it was NURSERY RHYMES...god mom's dont sing those to your children you may get sued...rolls eyes...And TV themes????

The Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) threatened to sue a twelve-year-old girl for illegally downloading music from the net.


This move was part of a wider lawsuit the RIAA has filed against 261 internet users, who it claims had been illegally distributing an average of more than 1,000 copyrighted music files each.



Brianna LaHara from New York was accused of downloading nursery rhymes and TV themes and offering them to other children. Brianna's mother has agreed to pay $2,000 (£1,260) compensation to the RIAA.



According to reports, Brianna's mother paid a £20 a month subscription fee to a file swapping service and as a result she thought her daughter was free to download files.




Related links:
RIAA.com" class="korostus" target="_blank">http://www.RIAA.com

Related articles:
Update! RIAA claims public backs anti-piracy campaign
Music downloaders sued by RIAA

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Quote:

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The FICTIONAL eposde you mention the guy went to jail for having CD copying machinery and making physical copies of disks. http://www.thebill.com/episodes/episode_358.html

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Had you actually watched the show, you would have seen that he had downloaded them, they got his ISP address, got his contact details and payed him a visit.

@ Jin - Yeah, I don't always watch it, but it's a real good drama :)

-Mike

Quote:

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Daredevil, Red Planet and Miss Congeniality

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image getting busted for flogging the 3 worst movies, they should of paid him for bringing there crap movies to the torrent sites

Quote:

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Daredevil, Red Planet and Miss Congeniality

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imagine getting busted for flogging the 3 worst movies, they should of paid him for bringing there crap movies to the torrent sites

Apparantly the guy was caught by a customs man who was monitoring the site. I think it was easier to prosecute him because he was the seed and therefore held the entire movie and was offering it for download by virtue of having an open Bittorrent. But since every frame of a movie is copyright it's probable the just partial sharing will eventually be a suable thing too.

This is just the start. It is illegal in most place to offer copyrighted material for download or purchase or similar. The people who invest the money to make such material are of course going to try to stop people stealing it.

I find it laughable how people try to make out the it's all about Big Bad companies and their overpricing etc. It's all about us trying to get something for nothing and then having the gall to moan when the person who own's what you are stealing tries to stop you. If you think movies are expensive then you have the choice not to watch them. You then pay nothing. You cannot blame the companies. If you produced a great song that most of the world loved but didn't get a penny because everyone just traded it then you'd be very angry - because your efforts were your efforts and not for stealing. People have got used to getting stuff for free for a long time now. It may not carry on forever.

We've all downloaded various things over the years but the bottom line is this: if you can't do the time then don't do the crime. Don't turn it into some political cause when it's just about personal greed.

Leaving MP3s open to download on P2Ps like Kazaa could end up with you being nicked. Now they are hitting Bittorrent. So people are moving to IRC and private FTPs. If you want to d/l you can always find a way to do it but the P2P looks like it's not going to be the safe way from now on.

AnEnigma (Newbie) 27 October 2005 1:07
Where was that 12 yr old girl from that downloaded the music, she went to some kind of Catholic school or lived in the convent...hard to remember but I think she may have lived there, anyway, she was sued for like 1,000.00 or something...wish I could remember. Found it..here is the story..
The Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) threatened to sue a twelve-year-old girl for illegally downloading music from the net.
...
This move was part of a wider lawsuit the RIAA has filed against 261 internet users, who it claims had been illegally distributing an average of more than 1,000 copyrighted music files each.
Brianna LaHara from New York was accused of downloading nursery rhymes and TV themes and offering them to other children. Brianna's mother has agreed to pay $2,000 (£1,260) compensation to the RIAA.

perfect example of someone falling for false information.

the RIAA is saying downloaing when they mean uploading.

They accused her of "DISTRIBUTION" according to the lawsuit. read it.

The RIAA has never EVER even TRIED to sue a single person for downloading.

Had you actually watched the show, you would have seen that he had downloaded them, they got his ISP address, got his contact details and payed him a visit.

I have read th script to the show. it is a fictional show. even though it is fictional the writers had enough sense to have the guy be a pirate of physical disks. wher he got the material from (dowloading) is reelevent to his being arrested or convicted.

this is the same as the guy in hong kong. where he got his material from is irrelevent.

again I note no one has cited a case where a person ha been subject of either a prosectution or a civil suit, or even a threat of a civil suit for downloading.

In ref to 'The Bill', i was chatting to another member from here about it as it was happening. And i believe that the BPI have paid the producers of The Bill to try and dissuade file sharers.

S2K - you shouldn't look into the scripts into the show too carefully.

The reason it says he got caught for downloading is because a large quantity of file sharers will think 'oh no, i don't want to go to jail!' and stop sharing.

Whereas, if they would have said he would be going to prison for uploading/distributing music, then most of the people who may have been frightened off will just turn to leechers.

Seeing as they want to combat uploading rather than downloading, its a win-win situation for the BPI.

But for some of us who know the `in's & outs` of file sharing, it just means, seeeeed!!! :)

biz

All this talk about sueing and prosecution is confusing me now. If uploading a copyrighted movie, song, game or whatever is illegal, then what is allowed by law to be uploaded? Do they want home videos and other family stuff to be uploaded? or are there 'uncopyrighted' movies around? I don't know much about US copyright laws, but i think anyone can get into trouble for distributing copyrighted material, even if you won't be prosecuted for just downloading.
This next question may sound trivial or controversial, but for the love of all things great and small, what is the best free P2P available?
Thanks y'all for your information.

lethal B,
I have no doubt, but if is anything like in the US the production company is part owned by major rights holders and members of the UK equivalent of MPAA RIAA anyway.

The main point is that it is one thing for the general public to be fooled into thinking that it is about downloading, but here on afterdawn were should know better about the facts, and for us the distinction between uploading and downloading should be clear as night and day.

The Bill is obviously fiction because like in the US no one has ever been sued for downloading music or film.

I think that eventually someone they catch uploading large amounts will be made to cop to downloading as part of a setttlement so that theycan say downlaoding gets you in trouble, but it has never happned in the US or UK and cannot be proven without an explicit admission. If I download a file from web1.0 or web2.0 I have no idea that it is copyright. since this could be domonstrably done unintentionally though http, pop, nntp, p2p, it cannot be proven. It is like if I mail you cocaine and the state goes after you.

Well, if everyone follows the advice people are giving here and don't upload anything, then there wouldn't be anything left to dwonload would there?

vietgrl I don't see any advice either way.

Rather simply pointing out that one is a provable offense and/or basis for a civil suit, and one is not.

If you are careful about your ip and your methods uploading can be made safer.

Nozza.
u got it in one.

Please excuse my newbie ignorance, but I just started using BitTorrent for a few weeks now and it is my understanding through simple observation of the programs operation, that due to the nature of bit torrents, those who download are also uploading at the same time.
Is this not a correct understanding of how bit torrent works ?

I got a warning message from my ISP about six months ago regarding downloading a "torrent" file, Its my understanding here in the Americas it is illegal for your ISP to give out your info from your IP Address, I think a couple of Isps got sued over this and had to pay some money to their members.

Be Careful Out There!

i dont know about that snipinu if the FBI wants it iam sure they legally get it with no problem

ok some quick answers:

re: ISP and giving out IP's

I believe the company you are referring to was ComCast. I also believe that it depends on the letter the ISP recieves as well as the ISP's sense of legality. For instance, if an ISP recieved a cease and desist DMCA letter stating an IP was logged that IP must forward that email to you and threaten to terminate your service if you do not cease and desist. A good ISP will not provide (nor be required to provide) your personal information under this type of letter. However, when that letter becomes a court order then they will either cave in and give it or they will fight the court order and you will be bale to anonymously appear to fight the John Doe warrant.

Re: BitTorrent

Yes! When you are downloading you are simultaneously uploading the material you have already acquired. This makes you a distributor and hence liable for uploading (TRUST ME!! lol)


quote:

...."someone would have to fall into a sting where they were unequivocally and directly being informed by someone else that the material was under copyright and that the rights did not extend to downloading.

Otherwise you simply cannot prove intent which would be needed."

Actually intent is one of the hardest things to prove, and one of the easiest. How can it be proven that Johnny INTENDED to violate copyright law by downloading that file? Well a lawyer could argue:

#1 what was the filename of said file? If it was file_xyz.AVI his argument is crap however if it is War_of_the_Worlds(1of4).AVI or Starwars_Episode3.mpg then intent can be pretty easily founded. Of course they would have to still prove that the defendant knew or likely had known that the content of these files were copyrighted. They could argue to persuade the jury that EVERYONE knows movies are copyrighted. They could call in witness, peers to testify that when they had watched a movie with the defendant that he too had seen copyright...risk under federal law..etc etc many times in the theater and on DVD/VHS. If the defendant took the stand (would almost have to) they could question how many movies (s)he had seen, rented. They could suppeona bank/credit card records to show how many times he rented from blockbuster etc. His only real line of argument could be he thought it was movie trailers, he thought it was a parody and not the actual movie, his intent was to download legally and the proof that he paid scam site X for a 'license' to do so shows his intent was not to break the law, for that matter he could argue that it was not really him but his computer had been turned into a zombie machine etc etc

So as I said, intent easy and hard to prove. It's likely that the lawyers have followed this same line of argument and thats why noone has been screwed for downloading yet. Also makes me wonder what would happen if somebody was 'turned' into 'zombie' uploader or data dump for the 'actual' criminals... lol

just some thoughts...

Even better, drop P2P and go usenet - HUGE files, fast downloads, no sharing, no tracking, easier then going to Best Buy.

I tried bit torrents for a few days just because my ISP doesn't provide a free usenet newsgroups. I was paying 12 bucks a month for 750meg limit download daily at a usenet pay site. Unfortunately bit torrents must use P2P to work, and that makes you a distributor of whatever you are downloading and sharing, before you even get to see the movie/file you are dl'ing. It also gobbles up your cpu and HD runs all the time, fans at max, etc. I must have been doing something wrong as I gave up after trying to download a small (to me) 2 gig movie after 3 days of constant running and only getting 650 mb, i gave up and un-installed. Newsgroups are much safer as you can download only, and the ISP would have to hand over your name, to the feds. You are not sharing anything when you dl from the newsgroups. And EVERYTHING is there on those groups for free. Quality is chancy like on mp3 song rips, but good free stuff, and fast dls. I think the lawyers are getting carried away. Time to change my IP address, just for fun. 2 can play the hide and seek game. Really, going after kids for dl songs, and some poor guy gets busted in Hong Kong for a dl of 3 old movies? Doesn't the world have better things to do than opress the little ppl? Come on, you think Dave Chappelle is going to go broke just because someone ripped a copy of his movie rather than outright buy it? That sucker and all those other artists/actors are RICH and will be forever, unless they mis-manage the millions they are raking in.. Give me a break. Lawyers/Feds Please go after some real criminals, and stop with the harassment of the masses, or the public could wake up and revolt against repression one of these days. Im sure that 12 yr old kid was a real big pirate, worthy of all that wasted manpower and dollars. Thanks feds for ridding us of this menace to society! Must have rated right up there with the capture of Saddam. I will sleep better now.

I think another valid argument against "intent" would be:

"Sure, I downloaded 800 milliion gazillion copyrighted movies. But when I started to watch each one and saw that each was copyrighted, I deleted it from my computer. The filename 'StarWars_Episode3.mpeg' didn't mention that it was a copyrighted version, but when I found out, I didn't watch it. I was looking for the version that is free to dl & watch, but unfortunately, I never found one. Is the movie any good?"

:-P

I was the 3erd person to comment on this thread Why aint it there no More??????????????????
WTF

If I turn on my tv and record shows, movies, videos, concerts, live performances, band performances, or anything else on our VCR, DVD Recorder, or Digital Video Reorder (TIVO etc.), I am 100% legal.
However if I download the exact, same, identical program to watch, it is illegal!!!??? I really do not get it. Also, I can capture in MP3 format FREE internet radio station songs, and this is also legal. But download that same song in MP3 and it is illegal!!!???
Beats the heck outa me???

Yep its all a bunch of garbage,
They have record buttons on VCR's But its illegal to use them?
Thats what they sell blank tape/discs for,they know what people are doing.

Just like it's illegal to have crack and weed,
But they sell crack pipes at the getty mart,
and head shops.

If they wanna stop the problems and want to get ride of these things Go after the main source not us (bittorrent)

People are money hungry thats all it is

Nice posts everyone I learned alot.