Hi, As previously mentioned above it is true that in the very near future all PC's will come with vista pre-installed. A large retailer/manufacturer here in Amsterdam Holland is already offering a free upgrade to Vista on all PC's and laptops they sell, and I think it wont be long before Dell and the other big boys do the same.Plus considering that a new PC with Core 2 duo, 1 gig of ram and a 500 Gig hard drive costs only €800.00 (it was double that price less than 2 years ago) It wont make any difference, be honest unless you built your own PC from parts,who actually purchases an OS ?, I know I never have, it came already installed on my new PC as did 3/11,95,98-SE and XP-PRO which I'm now using, thus PC's and hardware are getting so cheap that I predict within the next 2 or 3 years they wont cost more than buying a new TV, and I'm sure Bill and Co know that, plus it looks good for MS to look like they care about the Movie and Music industry, when they know ! just as you should that within a year or so of release, all the DRM crap will have been hacked and most of the major bugs fixed (Vista Service Pack 2)And then I will be buying a new PC as usual.

€800.00 ?? ..oh, is that all?

So Let me get this straight.

Lets assume that the four computers I've got now, do all that is needed of them.

This Windows Vista thingy is going to help my staff type faster is it?

No?

So its going to bring me in more customers then?

No?

It'll be able to run my business when I'm holiday?

No?


So what then?, its a bit prettier and its now so full of useless stuff I don't need to run my business, that I have to buy four new machines in the next two years if I want to continue getting updates from Microsoft?

In that case..........

To hell with the entertainment industry, I've got a $35 DVD player in the living room for watching films on, why do I have to suffer the expense and further agrovation just to keep the movie stars happy?

Sorry to all you people who seem to think our mate Bill is doing us a all favour ...but you're wrong!

It sucks, large style.

Here's what I want from the next generation of operating system...

Smaller, faster, more efficeint ...is that Vista? ..I don't think so!

€800.00 ?? ..oh, is that all?

So Let me get this straight.

Lets assume that the four computers I've got now, do all that is needed of them.

This Windows Vista thingy is going to help my staff type faster is it?

No?

So its going to bring me in more customers then?

No?

It'll be able to run my business when I'm holiday?

No?


So what then?, its a bit prettier and its now so full of useless stuff I don't need to run my business, that I have to buy four new machines in the next two years if I want to continue getting updates from Microsoft?

In that case..........

To hell with the entertainment industry, I've got a $35 DVD player in the living room for watching films on, why do I have to suffer the expense and further agrovation just to keep the movie stars happy?

Sorry to all you people who seem to think our mate Bill is doing us a all favour ...but you're wrong!

It sucks, large style.

Here's what I want from the next generation of operating system...

Smaller, faster, more efficeint ...is that Vista? ..I don't think so!

In reply to what you just said, (only €800 is that all?? ) well excuse me for thinking that €800 once every 4 or 5 years is a huge sum of money as I spend more than that during a summer vacation on food and drink, but to each his own, that you presume that I think that the sun shines out of Bill's arse is a big mistake. I don't I was just pointing out that everyone apart from people who like to collect antiques will probably buy a new PC roughly every 5 years and anyone buying a new PC in 2007 will most likely get Vista pre-installed. As to your company using 4 or 5 Pc's for the next year or 2 from my business experience that's just about how often most companys aquire new hardware anyway, but it would seem to me that you think the OS should remain the same and simply be improved on. That is not going to happen it never has and never will, of course you can buy yourself some Linux OS and run other software but that won't change a thing and in my opinion wont help you remain competitive, lets face it Gates has us all by the B***s and we just all hate to admit it

You're excused for thinking $800 is a lot of money Jimathome, however, I'd like to point out that, given the choice of spending it on yet more unnecessary hardware, just to compensate for the laziness of Redmond and the inability of the entertainment industry to come to terms with pricing their products competatively thus making piracy unviable,

or spending it on the holiday.

...I know which I'd choose!

My Dear Yettie,
You will find no argument from myself on that one, it's a catch 22 situation, to avail oneself of the new hardware the new software will be necassery and vise versa, it would seem to be that both of these industries have a symbiotic relationship based on greed, and I must admit my P4 2.4 Mhz machine with 2 Gigs of RAM a reasonable graphics card and 1 Terabyte of storage is more than ample for at least the next year or so as my machine is only 4 years old. and I need HD or Blu-ray like I need another hole in a certain part of my anatomy at the moment. okay when they cost $65 for a drive with both systems and the media costs about $0.80 a disk I'll be ordering one, but untill then hard drives are a cheaper solution.
Cheers Jim

Another article that may be of interest to those who may be tempted
to downgrade to vista,

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2536050,00.html

Vista jsut aint worth it unles you got money and time to deal with the WGA locking up your system becuse it wants to cal home to MS.

between auto patcher and wga kill fck MS and their stupid protection schemes ,hell I cant even restore the OS I have to format and reinstall becuse it cant update itself when changing hardware...ggrrrrrr

yes yes microsoft are a bunch of useless jerks and they wont ever care unless vista dont sell. But we all know it will because for every smart person out there there is about 1 million total dumbasses who will say "yes mr.gates please ram this in my ass and charge me lots of money!!! Also let me spend hours upon hours downloading updates to fix your shoddy products"


also Jimathome is there really a need to copy the whole comment your replying to? NO THERE F*CKING ISNT especially when its huge and its the message before your reply. hey i can understand a line or two but shitt

Hey oni, could you tone down the cursing a bit? Yes it's frustrating, but it's better to articulate your words better than the 4-letter equivalents. :)

Can I ask a question of all you knowledgable people?, one to which I can't find a definative answer.

Do all these new copyrighting gizmos in Vista, actually stop someone with a cd player and a couple of microphones and someone with a plasma TV and camcorder from recording copyrighted material, squishing into mp3 or AVI and redistributing it?

Because if it doesn't, this whole excercise by microsoft is totally pointless and why should we, as owners of perfectly good operating systems already, pay for this new system, that simply isn't going to achieve what its been designed to do?

By the way, has anyone ever noticed that when there's a need for more ram, there's often an earthquake in the far east (probably in the car park of the companies who manufacture the stuff) at just about the same time? ...not that I'm cynical or anything, but perhaps we should stockpile some for when we have no choice but to swap to Vista!

You want more functionality? Go double OS, your current Microsucks if you got one, and a Linux. Don't do Vista.

Thats one price that doesn't drop much is Ram Memory, it doesn't come into Moore's Law catagory, but proccessors video cards and Hdd's do. Strange that eh!!

Originally posted by joe777:

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Thats one price that doesn't drop much is Ram Memory, it doesn't come into Moore's Law catagory, but proccessors video cards and Hdd's do. Strange that eh!!

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Its not that strange there one of the few electronic device/parts to have a life time warranty or soemthign like on them,so its reasonable.

Also HDD prices don't fall below 50. and a brand new 40GB HD pem or retail is still abotu 60-90$ 0_o

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500 Gig Hdd in holland 149 Euros. Here in holland the Hdd prices always fall fast. Fair point about the life-time warranty on the Ram, but hey thats a con aswell cause who's gonna be using their ram for a lifetime, after all we are saying that, for example DDR1 will be obsolete in a few years so WTF why should Ram not fall into Moore's Law. Not WTF at you of course, but you see my point we are still being shafted, and 1 more point, who still has some old sticks of ram in the cuboard that never get used, waiting for some poor sod thats new to computing to get his hands on, and build him a PC?

Originally posted by joe777:

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500 Gig Hdd in holland 149 Euros. Here in holland the Hdd prices always fall fast. Fair point about the life-time warranty on the Ram, but hey thats a con aswell cause who's gonna be using their ram for a lifetime, after all we are saying that, for example DDR1 will be obsolete in a few years so WTF why should Ram not fall into Moore's Law. Not WTF at you of course, but you see my point we are still being shafted, and 1 more point, who still has some old sticks of ram in the cuboard that never get used, waiting for some poor sod thats new to computing to get his hands on, and build him a PC?

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well for 1 its their warranty unike others they have a higher form of warranty on thier stuff 2 in order to shave 100-200 off new ramm they balance it out on the older ramm, I remember the days when 1GB of ramm was 500-900$ reason 3 would be price game if they keep ramm high then you have to decide to upgrade now or later,I am in a dillema upgrade ramm for 200 or update the whole thing for 600.

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Hey Guys: let it be!
You've just forgot where you started from!
Calm down an SMELL The OS!
mTonto

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Zippy admit it!! we are being shafted no matter how you dress it up. People will buy the new gear and OS's and force the rest of us there, and well thats what the point of this debate is, vista is shafting us, and all the hardware needed to make vista 100% efficient, is also shafting us. Please read my post about testing vista ( personaly ) before, any flaming. Lol Lol

Originally posted by joe777:

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Zippy admit it!! we are being shafted no matter how you dress it up. People will buy the new gear and OS's and force the rest of us there, and well thats what the point of this debate is, vista is shafting us, and all the hardware needed to make vista 100% efficient, is also shafting us. Please read my post about testing vista ( personaly ) before, any flaming. Lol Lol

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I dislike ramm and HDD prices because they don't fall below 50,paying 50+ for a new 40GB HD is evil....or 50 for 512 of DDR mem is as evil,CPU prices are not so bad they come down fast enough...almost to fast sometimes.

Vista is evil anyway you look at it.

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what would you need to run vistas properly??

Moving to Langjökull in Iceland - so all the info I posted is moving with me!

MasterChu
really depends on what you use,ahve you ran across the cant find rights thing and a movie wont play yet? I run into that now and then with DVDs.

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Masterchu

I'm not following you on why vista's dvd playback quality is such a huge advantage over its predecessor ...A: I'd rather spend €35 on a new DVD player to watch my DVD's in the living room on my big tv, than €800 on a new computer (plus an unknown amount on a 32" wide screen monitor) to be able to run Vista to do the same thing and B: if the software is so much better why aren't we demanding they realease it for XP?

Personally I'd like to up the performance of my pc by the addition of new processors and memory, not just make up for the "slugware" we're being presented with.

But perhaps nearly 20 years in and around the computer industry qualifies me as a noob and I don't understand all this new fandangled technobable about over weight bloated software and I should simply stop complaining about being ripped off and get back in line like the rest of the brainwashed!

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I have a question.
Why is it that no matter what forum or thread you goto "ZippyDSM"
always has a answer?

Moving to Langjökull in Iceland - so all the info I posted is moving with me!

morguex
Google and allot of free time on my hands,and for everything I don't know is NEGATIVE X5 0_o


MasterChu
I have 2 or 3 dvd players one had more issues than the other because of the copy protection dvds have,Windose meia player cant play them,and for the first time VLN cant play a DVD had to gt any DVD to be able to run it 0-o

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Thanks Zippy, I hope you did'nt take my question the wrong way.

You are on alot of these threads and forums, and your answers are always good.

Peace all