Microsoft reiterates it has no plans to support Blu ray

and hear is the counter to Disney's PR spin as if we wasn't all fully aware that the MPAA studios sided with Blu-ray and the rest with HD-DVD.

Go HD-DVD!

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"We firmly stand behind the HD-DVD format as the ONLY choice for consumers."

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Fixed. So much for letting the consumer decide. I'm sure if MS didn't have a financial stake in one of the formats, they would happily accept royalties from both formats.

Just which deluded wishful 'thinking' and utterly hypocritical fanboys ever imagined this rubbish story to be likely?

Originally posted by pigfister:

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the MPAA studios sided with Blu-ray and the rest with HD-DVD.

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Here's another statement that needs to be clarified. The MPAA includes Universal Studios which is an HD-DVD exclusive supporter. In addition, Warner and Paramount - also MPAA members - release on HD-DVD AND BluRay. So the fact is both formats are well-represented in the MPAA. pigfister's assertion that the MPAA is a BluRay only club is wrong.

Quote:

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Originally posted by pigfister:

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the MPAA studios sided with Blu-ray and the rest with HD-DVD.

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Here's another statement that needs to be clarified. The MPAA includes Universal Studios which is an HD-DVD exclusive supporter. In addition, Warner and Paramount - also MPAA members - release on HD-DVD AND BluRay. So the fact is both formats are well-represented in the MPAA. pigfister's assertion that the MPAA is a BluRay only club is wrong.

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Thank you Error5...........

It's no secret that one of Sony & the BD Assoc's big pitches & selling points to the movie business was the additional security the added DRM BD incorporated.

HD DVD may well have DRM issues of it's own but BD is, by far, the worst offender in this.

It's also worth mentioning that Columbia pictures is owned by Sony. So yes, Sony is in business to make more money for Sony.

Disney, on the other hand, is pretty much the Hollywood equivalent of the tinfoil hat crowd. If told them you have a way to enhance DRM to stop 5 people from copying their movies they'd be willing to pay billions for it. Don't worry, it won't be any trouble. They'll pass the savings right on to the consumer :|

Originally posted by vurbal:

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Disney, on the other hand, is pretty much the Hollywood equivalent of the tinfoil hat crowd.

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Exactly right. Remember the DIVX/Circuit City fiasco?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

why does a software company like microsoft have such a vested interest in HD-DVD or infact any of the next gen DVD formats. it can't purely be just to spite sony. can it?

All of the technology companies are in it to spite each other. It's mostly about patents, and who owns them. If you look at the history of the original DVD specs there was a huge battle between a group led by Sony and Panasonic and another headed by Matsushita and Pioneer. The reason for these alliances was that Sony and Phillips own most of the patents for Compact Disc, and using those patents extensively would have left the other electronics giants in the caboose of the gravy train. Matshushita and Pioneer effectively won that battle, with Matsushita as the biggest patent holder and Pioneer tied for second place with Sony.

This time around Sony decided it was in their best interest to partner with Matsushita. You can be sure it surprised no one more than Matsushita. In fact, when I was in the Denver airport in January I had a couple of drinks with Panasonic's regional sales manager (Panasonic is Matsushita's consumer electronics division) for half of Canada (on his way back from CES), and he said as much. It's no different than all the fighting over copyright laws. It's all about making maximum money for minimum effort. If you get a piece of every player sold you have a guranteed revenue stream for years to come.

What happens after when the war is over and then we say that Blu-ray won the war do they then have to support it??

Of course they would - but I personally don't think either format is going to win. The real war isn't between groups of multi-billion dollar technology and entertainment cartels. It's between all of them and all of us. It's not about whose patents are going to be worth the most money. It's about who will sell consumers digital products they can consume when they want, where they want, how they want. Eventually these corporations will be forced to cater to that desire, and whoever does that will survive. Whoever doesn't will be remembered for their failure to recognize the future of business.

Since neither HD DVD nor BluRay is well suited to what consumers really want, I don't see either of them winning. Eventually they'll be replaced by something better for consumers, and ultimately better for those corporations. Unfortunately they haven't figured that out yet. But that's the way it always works. Either your business model adapts to changes, or somebody whose business model does buys it.

Here here vurbal......*claps hands*

This situation couldn't have been stated any better than your post! Now the only question is when are the suits going to wise up to this fact.... is it monthes, years, decades? I'm betting years to decades.

I'm sure it will be years, but I doubt they have decades to figure it out. Mainland China and Taiwan are both ready to take that step. The question is how long can the legal process stand in their way.

We're in uncharted territory now. When DVD was introduced there weren't millions of HTPC's or even people who understood at least the basic technical details of the format. That's changed now, and you can't put the genie back in the bottle - even if you have a fistful of laws that say he has to go. The corporations have made their move, and it's the same move as DVD. They couldn't hold back the tide then, and it's more of an uphill battle now. Consumers are starting to make their voices heard, and even governments are occasionally getting a glimpse of just how harmful it can be when entertainment conglomerates get their way.

Well the only problem is they (governments) aren't seing it fast enough. They (conglomerates) are doing harm to everyone including themselves. Just look at the lawsuits you here about everyday here and on other media outlets. It's a three ring circus on patents and ownership. Kind of reminds me of a grade school argument but not as laughable!

Originally posted by error5:

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Here's another statement that needs to be clarified. The MPAA includes Universal Studios which is an HD-DVD exclusive supporter. In addition, Warner and Paramount - also MPAA members - release on HD-DVD AND BluRay. So the fact is both formats are well-represented in the MPAA. pigfister's assertion that the MPAA is a BluRay only club is wrong.

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the MPAA is: Sony Pictures, Buena Vista (The Walt Disney Company), Paramount Pictures (Viacom -- which bought DreamWorks in February 2006), 20th Century Fox , Universal Studios , and Warner Bros. (Time Warner)


sorry yes universal is the only MPAA member fully supporting HD-DVD, the rest of the members showing full support are in favour of Blu-ray because of the extra DRM.

also what i didn't mention is that disney and sony are both the driving forces behind aacs la and the MPAA and sony is also one of the big four in the RIAA.

the RIAA is: Sony BMG Music Entertainment, EMI, Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group

This wasn't pointed out clearly too me I guess since MS is not supporting BD then will that mean that you won't be able too run BD disk on your computer or does this mean that won't be manufacturing the drives.

Originally posted by Blackjax:

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Well the only problem is they (governments) aren't seing it fast enough. They (conglomerates) are doing harm to everyone including themselves. Just look at the lawsuits you here about everyday here and on other media outlets. It's a three ring circus on patents and ownership. Kind of reminds me of a grade school argument but not as laughable!

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Agreed, but there are finally signs of cracks in the corporate armor with the recent webcasting royalty decision by the CRB here in the US. Members of both the Senate and House of Representatives, notably members of each body's Commerce Committee, are starting to understand that letting these organizations write laws is bad for the economy. Plus it's essentially pitting broadcasters, even the big ones now, against the copyright holders.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. The power is in the hands of consumers. If you don't buy it they can't collect royalty money from you. They're not listening to what you have to say right now, but if people simply decide not to buy their new products the silence will be deafening.

Originally posted by wolf123:

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This wasn't pointed out clearly too me I guess since MS is not supporting BD then will that mean that you won't be able too run BD disk on your computer or does this mean that won't be manufacturing the drives.

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- It's no different to buying a 'regular' DVD drive, a BD drive has software it needs to be used properly as any drive does, that's all
(oh, and not forgetting BD drives cost a stunningly wild amount of money right now and the DL media is rare, very very expensive and not exactly 100% reliable = one incredibly expensive Coaster when it goes wrong).

HD DVD is inherently more reliable as it is, in large part, based upon and a development of existing reliable SD DVD tech.

Microsoft backing HD DVD will IMO make a big difference in the long-run.

It's all just such early days.

When the HD DVD drives arrive (as a Toshiba rep said at CES 2007 'at a price significantly below the BD competition' and 'at around half the price of the BD competiton') we'll start to see the effect of that backing.

Even now the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on (which is just a very nice & capable little PC ROM drive by another name) is less than half the price of the Pioneer BD Rom drive that is coming ($300 verses $72 here - http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=4099 .

PC use is IMO going to have a significant impact on 'driving' HD DVD, particularly if the PC drives come able to use the triple layer 51gb media.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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- It's no different to buying a 'regular' DVD drive, a BD drive has software it needs to be used properly as any drive does, that's all
(oh, and not forgetting BD drives cost a stunningly wild amount of money right now and the DL media is rare, very very expensive and not exactly 100% reliable = one incredibly expensive Coaster when it goes wrong).

HD DVD is inherently more reliable as it is, in large part, based upon and a development of existing reliable SD DVD tech.

Microsoft backing HD DVD will IMO make a big difference in the long-run.

It's all just such early days.

When the HD DVD drives arrive (as a Toshiba rep said at CES 2007 'at a price significantly below the BD competition' and 'at around half the price of the BD competiton') we'll start to see the effect of that backing.

Even now the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on (which is just a very nice & capable little PC ROM drive by another name) is less than half the price of the Pioneer BD Rom drive that is coming ($300 verses $72 here - http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=4099 .

PC use is IMO going to have a significant impact on 'driving' HD DVD, particularly if the PC drives come able to use the triple layer 51gb media.

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do you not also need a hdcp vga card and compliant screen so you can actually get a picture, or once ict is utilised a downgraded one?

well if you purchase a Blu-ray drive like the plextor one you will only have aacs updates for 18 months then you will have to purchase subsequent aacs updates to continue to use your Blu-ray rom drive:

when you think how quick the aacs is being hacked Blu-ray is going to end up very expensive indeed.

link to pdf press release from plextor: http://www.plextor.be/press/datasheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf

Originally posted by plextor link:

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BD-MV playback at HD quality has very strict copy protection integrated and managed by the Advanced
Access Content System License Administrator (AACS LA), and software manufacturers are required to
include the AACS key management in the play back software.
These AACS play back keys are only valid for a predefined and limited period of time. Customers
generally have to buy new AACS keys every 15 months.


With the Plextor PX-B900A/T3KB the customer can playback BD movies produced until April 2009.
To play back movies produced after April 2009, the customer has to purchase a renewal of the key.

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so you now own a Blu-ray drive that will change your life forever blah blah blah, and now you have to pay to continue to use the hardware that you own, sounds criminal to me, aacs protection racket!

- It's no different to buying a 'regular' DVD drive, a BD drive has software it needs to be used properly as any drive does, that's all
(oh, and not forgetting BD drives cost a stunningly wild amount of money right now and the DL media is rare, very very expensive and not exactly 100% reliable = one incredibly expensive Coaster when it goes wrong).

HD DVD is inherently more reliable as it is, in large part, based upon and a development of existing reliable SD DVD tech.


Actually I would like too know if MS is not backing BD dvd drives then how would it be able too work on windows OS tell me that if something works on Windows OS doesn't that mean MS had too do something too make the os work with the drive and in that case anything they say they don't support they do or it would not work.


Sorry did that make since.

Originally posted by wolf123:

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- It's no different to buying a 'regular' DVD drive, a BD drive has software it needs to be used properly as any drive does, that's all

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i think you will find that you need a vga card with a HDMI output or HDCP compatible DVI-D or HDMI and a HDCP compliant screen if you wish to view any content!

Plextor Blu-ray PX-B900A http://www.plextor.be/products/px-b900a.asp?choice=PX-B900A

Originally posted by above link:

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System Requirements

DataWriting/Video Editing/DVD Authoring

* CPU: Intel Pentium 4 - 1.6 Ghz
* RAM: 512MB
* OS: Windows XP SP2, Windows 2000 SP4, Vista*

* for hardware only

Play BD-MV by HD quality

* CPU: Dual Processor (Intel Pentium D etc) - 3 Ghz i945/955 Chipset
* Video card: NVidia 6600, 6800, 7800 VGA or higher / ATI Radeon X1800 (R520) or higher with COPP support.
Output: DVI with HDCP support or HDMI.
* OS: Windows XP SP2
* Display: Resolution of SXGA (1280x1024) or higher
Input DVI with HDCP support or HDMI.
* High definition (HD) capable application
* Internet connection to update AACS key

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you can only record high def via a HDMI input (what you going to use as source as all HD content is copy protected?) and you can only watch hi-def signals via a HDCP output, and HDCP compliant screen or you get NO PICTURE, this is the same for all Blu-ray drives!

i will also draw attention to another worrying conglomerates con with Blu-ray, the Fact that after the warentee expires you have to purchase your own AACS licence keys and with the rate that aacs is getting cracked you will need a new one every 90 days!


http://www.plextor.be/press/datasheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf

Originally posted by link:

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BD-MV playback at HD quality has very strict copy protection integrated and managed by the Advanced
Access Content System License Administrator (AACS LA), and software manufacturers are required to
include the AACS key management in the play back software.
These AACS play back keys are only valid for a predefined and limited period of time. Customers
generally have to buy new AACS keys every 15 months.
The Plextor PX-B900A/T3KB product package includes two AACS keys with the following expiration
dates:
- Key one expires in February 2008.
This initial AACS key is already build into an application
- Key two expires in April 2009
This key is free of charge and can be obtained from the software manufa cturer website (under
construction).
The software will notify the customer to renew for this second key within February 2008.
- Within May 2009, the software will notify you to renew this last key.

This third key is not free of charge and can be obtained from the software manufacturers website.
Keys needs to be renewed every 15 months.

If a customer chooses not to renew the key, he won’t be able to play back BD movies which are produced
after these key expiration dates.

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Then the question to ask your self is who exactly is AACS LA? and its far from a surprise who they are and who stands to benefit renewal licence fees!

"AACSLA ARE = Sony, Disney, Intel, Microsoft, Matsushita (Panasonic), Warner Brothers, IBM and Toshiba."

Then the trailers on apple are they really in HD-DVD quality because my computer plays then fine so does that mean I could go out and get a BD dvd rom drive

Quote:

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"NOT"

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.

Quote:

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Then the trailers on apple are they really in HD-DVD quality because my computer plays then fine so does that mean I could go out and get a BD dvd rom drive

"NOT"

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they are high-def but not HDCP protected, neither are the ones at http://movies.yahoo.com/summer-movies but the drives and roms are! The only way you can watch High-Def at 1080 or 720 is via HDMI or DVI-D and ALL connected equipment HAS to be HDCP compliant! this is not fud its fact!

You're right pigfister, if you haven't got a HDCP graphics card and monitor you're going to have serious problems with either high def format.

......er, what I mean to say is with high def retail content.

The net is awash with lots of excellent high def content (there are some amazing rips of BD & HD DVD to be found too, even if they are LARGE files).

It just doesn't worry me right now as I do have HDCP on my graphics card & monitor so that one at least has dropped off of my radar.

But like all this DRM/security sh*te it's another needlessly pointless layer of BS looking to cause you grief at some later date with some bl**dy annoying software conflict somewhere sometime.

This will all be ineresting when the dust finally settles.