AfterDawn: Tech news

Microsoft Windows Genuine Advantage cracked by Indian

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 23 Jun 2005 8:57 User comments (103)

Microsoft Windows Genuine Advantage cracked by Indian An Indian Researcher, Debasis Mohanty has beaten what Microsoft called its "impenetrable" Windows Genuine Advantage. Windows Genuine Advantage is designed to keep tabs on consumers determining whether they are running a legit copy of Windows or a pirated copy. If running a pirated copy, a consumer may be restricted from downloading software from Microsoft's main download site.
Microsoft is aware of the breach and has even confirmed it but has stated that it "represents very little threat." A spokesperson stated that the company had long expected counterfeiters would try every method they could think of to circumvent the safeguards. Mohanty posted a proof of concept program and showed how the WGA program can be used to generate key codes for use on illegal copies of the software.

Using a secondary Microsoft validation tool, genuinecheck.exe, he says he has made it possible for people running pirated copies of Windows to trick the safeguard mechanism and get access to content that is set aside for genuine installations only. Currently a validation check on the website is voluntary but the company has said it will probably become mandatory eventually.

Source:
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103 user comments

123.6.2005 10:33

Haha, microsoft just got genuinely screwed :D

223.6.2005 13:05

So if it represents very little threat they wont mind anybody using it then ..................we'll wait n see.

323.6.2005 16:20

Quote:
Haha, microsoft just got genuinely screwed :D
Lmao! I like thatt!! Good for microsoft...those bastards!

423.6.2005 16:22

Link please. -Del

523.6.2005 16:41
evnflow
Inactive

Quote:
Link please.
lol....can't wait... ;)


Dolla Dolla Bill Ya'll


723.6.2005 17:28

Microsoft deserves this for taking over the entire software market, and they're trying not to freak over this issue! Oh no, what if they lose another .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of their sales!!!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Jun 2005 @ 17:30


823.6.2005 17:49
evnflow
Inactive

LMAO the pic fits perfectly




Dolla Dolla Bill Ya'll


923.6.2005 18:03

yep, he is like hitler. isn't it ironic that the first picture that pops up on google images when u type in bill gates is his mugshot?



1023.6.2005 19:52

Hey I wonder what bill gates going to do about this? May be he will buy off the idea from the Indian guy and make all the credits to go to himself. Jeez how original !

1124.6.2005 3:57

Yeah, he's known for doing that kind of s--t, cuteperv. When Hitler was rising to power, he covertly had all of his political enemies snuffed out. When Willy Gates is faced with any serious competition, he covertly tries to buy them out with Big Buck$. Same difference. Any time you try to get a needed update (like DirectX 9.xx) on the micro$oft website, they try to Bull you into opting for their nifty, keen-o, sooper-dooper new Validation/Verification process. Rest assured, your Product Key will get transmitted to them, along with the user-name you have stored on your computer, so IF you are running a freebie copy of whatever OS you have, (about 75% of the free world; no show of hands in here is necessary; you all know who you are), then you'd better run scared! (I, of course, would never do that kind of thing, because I am a "good" little 'puter user, go to church every Sunday, and believe everything that the good folks at micro$oft try to jam down my .... (er).... everything they tell me), and of course, if micro$oft sez it's true, it must be so, eh? (Ahem .....) "Windows Genuine Advantage". HA! *Who* do they think they are shamooing ??? "Windows Genuine Crok" is more like it. It (kinda) stinks the same way as MacroVision's "Quality Protection" logo you see on some DVDs now. Pure Bull, clear and simple. (I must try out dikdimond's link above). =)

1224.6.2005 4:40

it dosnt matter the next version of windows aka Long horn has diffrent security and if I was anyone I wouldnt evendown load it ... I bata tested it 3 years ago and it s made for 64 bit incrytion but there isnt any software on the market to take advantage of the full product and yes the proof check will be maditory when its release. Im glad someone broke the last checker its a pain in the a## when you have to reinstall and then it wont because you did it once befor the crash , the way I see it if I bought it then I can reinstall it or one would think not unless you want to talk to microsoft on the phone and beg for new numbers.... thats why I ghosted my drive after I loaded it to a spare and tucked it away..... and yes the pic of gates fits.....

1324.6.2005 5:31

back to linux! pls do not upgrade win versions for the existing utilities, compile them in linux!

1424.6.2005 21:39

LMAO! Just too funny!

1526.6.2005 1:49

sweet.... sounds awesome!

1626.6.2005 3:30

Yet another dumb microsoft application!!! :) These retards never get enough from their anti piracy shit that never works :P .

1726.6.2005 6:27

Wow. I've had a Windows XP Genuine Key Generator program for QUITE some time...no need to circumvent the WGA, it generates real, valid keys.

1826.6.2005 7:02

*** YAWWWWN *** I don;t see what all the news is about anyway, as jcase stated, there have been valid key generators out there for some time. Anyone who wants to bypass the checks, it is not hard to do already. It takes about 2 weeks or less for someone to figure out a way to bypass Microsoft's security.

1926.6.2005 8:55

*YAWN* indeed.

2026.6.2005 15:43
jlbooth
Inactive

Seems to be a lot of animosity towards Bill Gates. While I can agree that MS pretty much has all Windows OS users in a stranglehold, I am still grateful that he came to the scene. I am old enough to remember when I first got a computer and relied on the bias of salespeople. Compatibility was nonexistant. At least he made it so much easier for newbies to get into computers without the woes prior to his emergence. In fact, I believe that if he, or someone else, did not appear on the scene and do as he has done, then many people who have and use computers especially at home, would have given up in disgust and possibly bankruptcy. I know I would have got stung badly without him as regards hardware and software.

2126.6.2005 16:09

just amoment of nostalger as stated also by jllbooth about Bill Gates and his windows programe. I can also remember the commador this was using windows long before Bill Gates came on the scene, I for one will not shed a tear for any thing to kick his butt in any way he has had enough of my hard earned money in the past

2226.6.2005 18:33

Microsoft should concentrate on selling affordable, efficient operating systems that don't need constant "updates" (bug fixes). I bloody well hate their operating systems, when compared to Linux, the Mac OS as well as the old Amiga operating system - Workbench. Whilst most other people were fighting their way through Windows Explorer the rest of us were working on projects. Running 3GHz processors just to get a MS operating system ticking over at speed, is not only ludicrous - it's a reflection on the complexity and inefficiency of Microsoft software. Use a platform-independant OS. MS Windows has its advantages but at the end of the day it's overpriced and full of bugs and threats. When Bill Gates want to control what you say and think, you'll also have a further reason to send this software to the recycle bin..

2326.6.2005 22:58

Microsoft requiring people to pay for their OS will be the end of them. 11 years, and I've still never paid for Windows. Once I can't install Corp version on my pc, I will be 100% Linux.

2427.6.2005 3:39

this is not software anymore it's fatware! pls anybody can suggest a linux graphic version that runs on a 64 MB ram amd 4 GB disc???

2527.6.2005 3:41

not amd but AND in the above msg

2627.6.2005 4:07

Microsoft's various OS's are: * Sprawling Bloatware * Sloppy; Inefficient; Resource-Hogging * Buggy; Errant; Prone to Self-Destruction * In need of critical updating within 5 minutes of initial installation * Self-Serving (IE6; OutLook Express; WMP) * DRM-Crippled (DirectX-9xx) * Vulnerable; Hackable; Poorly Protected * How Much Time You Got ? The fact that their OS's are so ongoing-ly popular is because of Marketing Smarts and sheer financial clout. If you have enough $$$ you can do practically anything you want, a lesson learned by the Hollywood Film Industry ages ago.

2727.6.2005 12:39
coldasice
Inactive

Finally....some justice in the world. Goes to prove that there isn't a *pencil* in the world that can't have an eraser. Well done indian!

2827.6.2005 22:56

I personally hate Gate’s as well, he has held down good progress and is starting to gouge for his office products. He also tries to second guess what you are doing and makes it difficult to do what you intend. I had a wonderful Amiga 1000, MAC SE, and 286 PC back in 87’ and the one I loved the most was the Amiga but they screwed themselves by not being friendly when you needed help. The MAC was grey scale and had a small screen, besides being twice the price of anything else. The IBM compatible was color and was cheap besides you could find most of the software you needed at a reasonable price. The first machine I dumped was the MAC and then the Amiga unfortunately fore seeing everyone moving to the IBM compatibles. When MAC’s finally did go color they were easier to use then PC’s and handled graphics and sound much better but they cost way to much and you were still very limited otherwise. MAC’s are no longer easier to use but still cost twice as much and still limit in the software arena. Linux is still not user friendly and there doesn’t seem to be one standard, various distributions can be drastically different and a slight screw up can make you start all over again. Also I don’t see any great speed in using Linux besides the fact that just like MAC’s you are limited in the software you can find and run and now various distributors are charging for what use to be open source i.e., Red Hat amongst others. I would love to see a user friendly system that could compete with Windows but unfortunately I think it will be some time before someone comes up with a good alternative Linux is trying but has a long way to go in my opinion. Let’s get back to the real world people…

2928.6.2005 13:14

Seriously people, easy on the Gates hating. He's gotten a product to be almost universally used, so what? Respect his business prowess. Windows isn't that bad, I've used it and while there have been problems, like with 98, ME and whatnot, XP isn't half bad, if you know what you're doing. A little maintanence is all it takes to keep a system working, and besides, if you wait a few years, you won't have to use Windows anymore. Mac's coming out with that Intel chip, so I'm gonna just switch over to a PowerBook when that day comes. And while a lot of people undoubtedly have legitimate reasons to dislike Gates, Microsoft or Windows, it really hurts your case if you call it Micro$oft, Winblows, and the rest. Call it what it is, and it makes you look less like a disgruntled customer with an axe to grind and more like someone who has an issue with a product. Just a thought. -Phantasee

3028.6.2005 14:16

you obviously haven't used linux. XP sucks in comparison.

3129.6.2005 8:54

Chovy – You know what they say, “ignorance is bliss” this seems to fit you apparently you must not do much with your computer. It’s funny how some one can pride themselves on a lack of performance and an archaic operating system with a severe lack of programs to run on it. I know this is a waste of time and breathe as stubborn people never are objective but I get tired of the Linux blather I hear all the time. If it was so great why aren’t there more people using it? I use it just to amuse myself but it isn’t a serious contender yet.

3229.6.2005 9:51

it's obvious YOU don't do anything with your computer. Except perhaps burn dvds which is the only thing that is easier on XP than Linux.

3330.6.2005 2:15

Our school forces us to use Microsoft products. All the latest assessemnts actually have a Microsuck product in the marking criteria.

3426.7.2005 22:44
rm6990
Inactive

" Also I don’t see any great speed in using Linux besides the fact that just like MAC’s you are limited in the software you can find and run and now various distributors are charging for what use to be open source i.e., Red Hat amongst others. " For what used to be open source? How is Red Hat Enterprise Linux, for instance, not open source? Perhaps you should attend GPL 101. Or were you just not around all of those millions of times people have said "Free as in Freedom, not as in price". I personally think "Free as in Freedom, not as in Free Beer" is pretty easy to understand, but apparently some people still find it difficult :-P

3527.7.2005 9:28

GPL software has and always will remain free. They can charge however for distribution and packaging, which is of course what they promote. Buy Redhat linux with a nice shiny box and paperback manual for $X dollars, or spend LOTS of money for tech support. A lot of IT managers want an 800 number to call, for whatever reason, their admins don't know how to use google, irc, or forums. SO they'd rather pay $220/hour with a redhat tech looking into their problem. This of course can all be avoided, simply by downloading the cd iso image, burning it, installing it, googling or reading tutorial, or even buying a $30 book if need be. and whoever said there's a lack of software for linux and/or mac is full of crap. The only software I feel is necessary to keep windows around is quicken, and dvdshrink+nero.

3627.7.2005 15:37

it has nothing to do with the admin's ability to use google or irc. it has to do with accountability. when a corporate server goes down it can result in a financial loss to the company when it's a mission-critical application. the IT manager pays the extor^H^H^H^H^Hsupport costs to protect himself & his employees so if for some reason the aforementioned admins are not able to find the cause a backup is available (or fingers can be pointed at in that direction).

3727.7.2005 15:59

So if you IIS server goes down, or is hacked, because of some vulnerability, and you loose out on a million dollars in sales or customers sue your for loosing their data, it's ok to sue microsoft to recoup your damages? What a load of BS. I'm sure in the user agreement you totally release microsoft of all legal responsibility.

3827.7.2005 16:09

None of you have any idea the amount of time, effort, and work that has to go into an OS that will run on ALL PC hardware, with ALL PC software, without requiring extensive user configuration out of the box. Windows does all of these things. Sure you could buy a mac, run the mac os on mac hardware with mac apps, and pay twice as much. I have nothing against macs, they run very well, but then, they don't have the sheer number of available components and apps that a PC does. Or you could get linux, run a significantly smaller number of apps, with hardware that you frequently have to config the OS and/or make drivers for. I have nothing against linux either, but for sheer ease of use and compatibility, I choose windows. Everyone bitches about how Windows has a million updates, (you'd rather leave flaws in the OS? And what's with all the different versions of linux by a single distro?) so called 'self serving'(wait, bundling FREE apps with an OS is bad? And christ, if you don't like IE, outlook express, or WMP, download another program! In windows, you can do that!), hackable (when linux gets the amount of usage windows does, we'll see how secure it is) and inefficient (again, lets remember that windows has to run on a million different platforms, you can't just do a kernel compile for your custom box). Personally, I'm glad that Microsoft bothers to address problems that arise with their OS, and I can't see why people think this is bad. I use Firefox, because I don't really like IE. I use winamp, because i don't really like WMP. And I use Outlook, because I happen to have Office(which I've certainly never had a problem with). I've used linux in college, my girlfriend has a mac, but I still find a PC with Windows works best for what I do. All this retarded MS bashing should stop, it's clear most of you have no idea what you are talking about.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Jul 2005 @ 16:09

3927.7.2005 17:45

I think it's more a matter of opinion. I prefer secure, open source software. It's coded better, bugs are fixed in a reasonable amount of time, and development is not bastardized by the driving force of proprietary software - the bottom line. Releases are done "when they are ready, and no sooner". It cracks me up how Mozilla is getting a bunch of heat in the news lately for "delaying" a release....so f--ing what? I'd rather have it work and wait for it, then have it now, and crash - which is what usually happens with MS products. Also, it depends on what you use your computer for, I'm not anti-ms. It's just there are things linux is good for, and things windows is good for. Windows it's especially easy to burn dvds, that's why I use it, and for Quicken. Everything else I do with Linux, or at work, where I'm forced to use XP, I use GPL apps: gaim, gimp, firefox. Try using command-line tools on XP, grep for example is one thing I can't live without. That XP search feature is a joke since it skips most files that are related to the operating system. I have yet to find a match when I know one exists.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Jul 2005 @ 17:46

4027.7.2005 18:41

You most certainly are anti-ms as you state, and you avoid it like the plague. The search tool isn't as bad as you say, you just don't know how to setup your system to do what you want it's really not that tough. I like CLI interfaces as well and can do things faster in that environment but most people don't want to spend that kind of time learning to use their system, this is why Windows is so popular and that THERE ARE MORE APPS found for it, PERIOD! If you like Linux or Unix more that's great I would like to see other operating systems compete it's good for the market and it's nice to see the Linux market move towards the Windows environment but it will mean that the things you like might go away eventually as it has in the MS world, evolution. I don't like plug and play and I did like DOS command control but most people can't handle that or don't want too.

4127.7.2005 19:13

you know when it comes right down to it, each person will use what is best for them and neither is wrong for doing so. you say "potato", I say "potAto". they both make good hash browns, so it aint worth arguing about.






http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore)

4227.7.2005 19:31

What bothers me most is paying out $150+ for the new upcoming micro$oft vi$ta, a version that will be likely SO filled with DRM restrictions, it'll make you gag. If that's where my dollars are going to go - I don't want or need the OS. "Genuine Advantage" you say? For who? The hyped-up phrase 'Genuine Advantage' is Genuine Crap. It's kinda like Macrovision's "Quality Protection". Pure propagandist baloney.

4327.7.2005 19:52

It's a gimmicky name, so what. Why is microsoft the devil for trying to fight software piracy? The only people who could complain are the ones who don't pay for software, and they don't have the right.

4427.7.2005 21:23

I don't have a problem with Microsoft combatting piracy of microsoft products, but the original thread was about how this indian programmer cracked their supposed "uncrackable" piracy protection mechanism. That to me just goes to show how full of crap MS is.

4528.7.2005 3:42

Moniker, to tell you the truth, if I knew how to use Linux (I'm not that smart yet), and if I could find enough Linux apps to meet my basic needs, or if there were any other reasonable alternatives, I wouldn't wipe my a-- with anything carrying the M$ logo. I use windows because I *have to*; because micro$oft has infiltrated the entire industry, both hardware-and-software related, with it's proprietary mechanisms...not because I have any affection for the company. Gates is a legalized crook, a shister, a bottomless-pocketed PHONY, and if you don't already know that by now, nothing I or anyone else can say in here is going to make a shred of difference to you. He wants control. TOTAL CONTROL. He always *has* no matter how cute his impish, innocent little grin may appear to you. He wants to tell you what you can and cannot do with your computer and when you can or cannot do it. He wants to tell you what you can burn and what you cannot; what you can save and what you cannot; what hardware you can use and what you cannot; what software you must use and what you cannot; what you can watch and listen to and what you cannot.... already there is talk of microsoft-crippling-devices which are being considered for use in the next, new generation of Hard Drives ("perpendicular recording"), because, ....BECAUSE these new High-capacity drives will help in the backing up of the new data-intensive High-Definition discs, and God only knows what pacts with the Hollywood Devil Gates has thus made. And like Hollywood, his greed knows no bounds. If you were to pay the slightest attention to the double-speak, propagandist ad-copy, and general HYPE constantly spewed out by the M$ marketing boys, then common sense would tell you you're dealing with a consumate LIAR. I don't intend to get into any prolonged microsoft-bashing, because it's not worth the pain, but I've said my piece. Thank you.

4628.7.2005 4:29

How true, it's all about monopolies and right now Gates has one. Both Jobbs & Gates are crooks that's how they make it. Well said A_Klingon... :)

4830.7.2005 10:17

What I find the funniest is how one poster talked about the bottom line. The bottome line is how things get done on a large scale. Linux is small right now, so everyone in that community is very happy to use it as they are, with their open source and all. It's a good concept, but so was communism. Communism won't work because of human nature, but open source does - in small scale applications. Do you think if everyone had the technical ability to use Linux (which I feel shouldn't be necessary to use a computer - arguably the most used, most useful, and most necessary piece of equipment in modern times), that it would still work? Trust me, it wouldn't. The few people working with linux now, they would be swamped by the masses, and the masses don't care for what an open source expert says, they want someone who has something they can strangle him with - the bottom line. The bottom line is the driving force of capitalism, and capitalism is the ideology that is fueling the world's progress today. Open source has a chance to start something in software, but it'll be businesses concerned about the bottom line, about company value, about stock value, it will be them who will carry through to the mass markets.

492.8.2005 4:25

Hmm, I run linux, and use it to play UT/Quake][/Unreal rip/burn DVD's/CD's containing Video/Audio/Data etc. Not to mention I have one box thats sits in with my entertainment system that provides song/movie storage as well as setup to use as a Turner/DVR unit. And costed a lot less then if it had been setup using a windows based machine. But when it's all said and done whoever will use whatever they feel comfortible with using. Also I'll be the first to state for the record that no matter if it's Linux or Windows they both have thier good and bad that goes with them. So why should ethier type of user bad mouth, put down the other? Because it's not much different then some people like chocolate, some like vanilla, I myself like strawberry ;-). Not to mention that the world could use a lot more tolerance and not just when it comes to what OS you use.

502.8.2005 4:31

Since I'm new here forgot to mention Love the site, and all the excellant info and exchange of idea's.

512.8.2005 9:38

RE: The Bottom Line... Nobody is telling you can't pay $50,000 for a database (oracle) when postgres will do it for free. If you want to pay $199 for an operating system, you're more than welcome to. I love how people compare open source with communism. Such an 80's thing to do. Get with the times man, terrorism is the "threat" these days. :-) We quashed those commie bastards years ago, thanks to Bin Laden.

5210.8.2005 11:30
sinfully
Inactive

my personal opinion about microsoft is kinda blah , im in the IT field so i HAVE TO know it and deal with it. unix and linux is something i would love to learn how to do, which i will one day. XP is such a mem hogger and the prices for beta software cuz that is what it is. is sooo outrageous but hey one thing i do admire is his tactics the man gots skills like a hustler in downtown LA corner selling you what looks lilke coca but is flour. you know. but it has been universal. thats for sure. you know. i love the site,all the ideas and opinions are great, just keep an open mind that not everyone has to be the same.. ;) just a thought...

539.9.2005 6:04
n0v0n
Inactive

If I had invested my money in Bill Gate´s MICROSOFT in the beginning (he asked me for $5 Gs)Today I would be a milionaire. Remember when CELL PHONES started...yep...missed that one too. IBM screwed up too when they did not accept Bill´s idea. Anyway, I stick with what works, and MICROSOFT works, has it´s problems and I can find software foe it all around the world...including cheap pirated software. If LINUX is that good, than why isn´t the U S GOVT using it? n0v0n every rule has an exception

549.9.2005 8:13

Because our government is controlled by business. It would be un-american to NOT use proprietary software and pay up the ass for it :) Plus, most people are pretty much in the dark about Linux, et. al open source projects. Look at other governments around the world, they are starting to use open source in the government, netherlands, australia, africa. Seeing the sad state our public schools are in as far as technology goes (jr. high computer classes running windows 98 on 10 year old computers). Microsoft wants $1600 to upgrade them to windows 2000 for 30 computers. "Your Future, Our Passion(TM)?" What a friggin' joke. More like "Pay up, bitches! and even if you do, we'll give you the crap (win2k) we stopped supporting 2 years ago!" (TM). I've been telling my girlfriend about open source, and she's already got all her students using FireFox, Open Office and Gimp on the windows machines. I want to setup a Linux computer for her classroom so she can start introducing Linux to them. The librarian at her school is asking for Open Office to be installed on her computer, because all she has now is Wordpad, since the school can't afford a license for the library to run MS Office. This is why I support open source. It gives the freedom to the users, and you're not limited in what you can do with it by a restrictive license. Don't like the way the app works? Rewrite that function....start a new project to improve it. It's totally up to the user-base and community what they want to do. People are more than welcome to write their own apps and sell them (I sell some programs I write myself). But don't expect people/institutions to pay a rediculous licensing fee for it (especially when they can't afford it). That's my 2 cents, anyway.

559.9.2005 9:33

CHOVY Because our government is controlled by business. It would be un-american to NOT use proprietary software and pay up the ass for it :) Although this answer works in most cases it is the WRONG answer here. CHOVY Plus, most people are pretty much in the dark about Linux, et. al open source projects. Look at other governments around the world, they are starting to use open source in the government, netherlands, australia, africa. Most people don’t want to waste their time learning to use this antiquated, poor help supported software. CHOVY Seeing the sad state our public schools are in as far as technology goes (jr. high computer classes running windows 98 on 10 year old computers). Microsoft wants $1600 to upgrade them to windows 2000 for 30 computers. "Your Future, Our Passion(TM)?" What a friggin' joke. More like "Pay up, bitches! and even if you do, we'll give you the crap (win2k) we stopped supporting 2 years ago!" (TM). I don’t know where you get your info or from who and when but put the drugs away please I don’t buy it I could find them a better deal easily. CHOVY I've been telling my girlfriend about open source, and she's already got all her students using FireFox, Open Office and Gimp on the windows machines. I want to setup a Linux computer for her classroom so she can start introducing Linux to them. The librarian at her school is asking for Open Office to be installed on her computer, because all she has now is Wordpad, since the school can't afford a license for the library to run MS Office. Your poor girlfriend I hope she doesn’t listen to you but if she does she is in for a coaster ride. Firefox is fine but is nothing compared to Avant Browser which is OPEN SOURCE too and much more functional. Of course you can’t use it on Sinux. CHOVY This is why I support open source. It gives the freedom to the users, and you're not limited in what you can do with it by a restrictive license. Don't like the way the app works? Rewrite that function....start a new project to improve it. It's totally up to the user-base and community what they want to do. People are more than welcome to write their own apps and sell them (I sell some programs I write myself). But don't expect people/institutions to pay a rediculous licensing fee for it (especially when they can't afford it). That's my 2 cents, anyway. See sometimes 2 cents is TOO MUCH! Again put the crack pipe down, you just don’t get it and it looks you will never. Linux is a nightmare, lack of support, awkward system, no strong standards, lack of programs, antiquated, just right out limited and arrogant guru’s in the forums to deal with. When you’re having a simple syntax problem try reading or interpreting the help files for a given command what a bunch of crap you’ll find. There are many good reasons the average bear doesn’t use Linux which have been stated before over and over and over…

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Sep 2005 @ 9:38

569.9.2005 9:40

whatever dude. Smoking crack? Sounds like you're the one with the MS heroin pipe up your a**. Like I said, it's a money and accesibility issue for proprietary software. Schools get hurt. And YES, $1600 is what it would cost for her school to upgrade her computer lab from 98 to 2000. The truth hurts, if you want to go stick your head in the sand, and ignore the fact that our country is slow becoming obsolete and lagging behind, go ahead. You do/say what you want, but don't expect me to sit on the sidelines and redicule those who want to change the system.

5710.9.2005 2:59
n0v0n
Inactive

Okay guys... Let get this thing straitgh. The guy that ``MADE´´ Linux was not a crack addict nor a heroin shooter. He was and still is an ``ALCOHOLIC´´. Why does everybody knocks down MICROSOFT. If you go out and pay a lot of money for MICROSOFT programs that´s your problem...I DON´T. There are certain secrets hidden within Bill Gate´s MICROSOFT where you can get all the software you want for bargain prices. Do your research and you will find it. On LINUX, yes I can sit down and program too, but I want to use the program or write a program with ease and speed. Although not all the schools are up to snuff with computers...AT LEAST THEY HAVE COMPUTERS... go to a 3rd world country where the schools or public services still run 1(ONE) yes ONE 386 and they are happy as hell. Besides...would you give a 3 year old little shithead a $3,000,00 to stick his little peanut butter and jelly fingers on the screen, or maybe let him open the CD player and stick his wiener (HOTDOG) in there to warm up? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! I sold plenty of Government surplus computers and donated a lot of them to many schools, churches, flop houses, etc. You should see the smile on their faces. Go to a 3rd world country...the same person would get the computer for almost free and try to screw his public school system even more. On one of my trips overseas (to the banana republic I was born in) I stopped at a police station to file a complaint. There PCs (TWO - ONE BROKEN) IBM 286 with TWO old OKIDATA printers (ONE BROKEN). It took 6 hours to get the complaint filed, stored and printed. Go ahead and complain about our way of life. If you don´t like it here...pack and go!

5811.9.2005 16:59

"If you don't like it here, pack and go". This must be how all that American innovation gets done :P

5912.9.2005 10:38

Those words must be for you. But then again you just don’t get it and never will. You’re being opposed by many and you don’t even see it, ignorance is bliss. It truly is a waste of time soliciting your gibberish. As has been said before several times if you love Linux great, but don’t expect everyone else too. It’s like talking to a child I just love it. :)

6012.9.2005 10:48

heh...so now you just want us (open source advocates) to shutup and go away :) says a lot about your character, imo. anyway, the discussion was focusing around why use open source or why use proprietary. If you don't agree with someone, fine. But no reason to call them children, or try to berate them to make yourself fill better. Good day to you.

6113.9.2005 2:50

I find it halarious when people bag linux becuase of it's complexity. Thats precicley means your an idot. I am so sick and tired of overly confident self proclaimed 'IT Experts' who are so insanley inexperienced! There must be other people out there who come across absolute monkeys cliaming to be experts then strangley bag Windows or Linux! Both are Operating Systems, Just like a Bus and a Truck are both vehicles. If you can drive a Bus but bag trucks becuase YOU can't drive them, you obviously have a prolem learning how to operate machinery.

6213.9.2005 10:03

Another moron O’boy it just amazes me but then again it really shouldn’t… Have fun boys enjoy your great operating system everyone else is, NOT. :) This has gotten way off the beaten track and your really not worth the bother either, enjoy your circle jerk.

6314.9.2005 2:16

Quote:
unix and linux is something i would love to learn how to do, which i will one day. XP is such a mem hogger and the prices for beta software cuz that is what it is
How do you bag Microsoft and say about how ineffiecient their products are when you have no idea how to use an alternative, yet alone having tried them.

6414.9.2005 3:32
n0v0n
Inactive

ANYONE STILL DOS??

6514.9.2005 6:09

Quote:
ANYONE STILL DOS??
Yes! All the time! You can do stuff with DOS you can't easily do with anything else. I use batch files all the time. All my housekeeping chores (3 hard drives) are done through DOS. You wana cozy up close to your hard disks and know what you are doing? Use DOS.

6614.9.2005 8:46
lajr1980
Inactive

LOL @ this thread!

6714.9.2005 10:40

Cygwin kicks DOS's *ss :-)

6814.9.2005 13:07

Maybe so, chovy, (never heard tell of cygwin) but at least - last time I looked - there was no DRM stuff in DOS. (Oh god, dos is a micro$oft thingee. How utterly embarrassing.) Well, I'll tell you what: I won't mention DOS anymore if you don't tell anyone I use it. (It'll be our secret). Didja know? Many of the computers where I work (Holiday Inn) are still running DOS apps.

6914.9.2005 13:09

what's DRM? I don't use dos, simply because you can't do anything with it, except ipconfig, regedit and ping. Install cygwin, and you get all the nifty commandline utilities from *nix on your winX machine, even ssh and scp, grep, etc.

7014.9.2005 15:39

Hey A_Klingon, Like you I just love DOS and batch scripting in it. Once and a while I boot up my old DR-DOS 7 and play there are some games I have you can only play on a DOS platform. You’re wasting your time with the chovy cronies they are the type you can hit with a hammer but they will never get it, basically a real waste of time. I only chimed in because of your post. I had that Fleetwood Mac reel just like you and it was a great one. :)

7114.9.2005 15:47

cro·ny Audio pronunciation of "cronies" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (krn) n. pl. cro·nies A longtime close friend or companion. Thanks man, I didn't know you considered me a close personal friend :-)

7214.9.2005 15:51

Here is a good example he doesn't get it or can't read. :)

7314.9.2005 16:00

what exactly is it that I don't get?

7415.9.2005 1:38

What you don't get with DOS (not Mr. Movies), is DRM. Now chovy - I can understand if you don't know all that much Dos stuff, but .... "DRM"? (Oh, my, my, my...) DRM is a relatively new thingee. It's one of the MAIN reasons we come to these forums. I can't tell you anything more about it, 'cause like, it's a big hush-hush secret or something. If you're not using DOS, then you have DRM all over you. It's not your fault, really. Most people have DRM all over them like flies over s---, but that's only cause they were suckered or had no choice, or didn't know any better. Mr. Movies! (Thanx for the comeback). Yeppir, those old reels had a certain magic to 'em you just don't find today on yer basic Walmart bargain-bin Collossal Mega-Hits1.98 music cd. If we were to tell chovy that there was no DRM in those days, do you suppose he would understand? Ouuuuuu....chovy..... "DRM", "DRM"...... (oh yummy!) - schrlup! Nice DRM, G-o-o-d DRM..... [stroke/stroke] Mmmmmmm, boy. Gotta love it (not).

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Sep 2005 @ 1:48

7515.9.2005 9:46

Too funny, I just love it when you’re around. :)

7615.9.2005 11:58

Uhh...ok. so DRM refers to Digital Rights Management. Big f-ing deal man, you're SOOOO much smarter than me. :P Well, this is a forum for how to rip dvds, I'm also willing to bet a majority of you so called "ms advocates" are also using cracked software too. Anyways, I don't blame you. I used to used cracked software too until I got into open source.

7715.9.2005 12:29

See what I mean A_Klingon he reads a little and is still clueless but then in his ignorance he gets displacent. You got to love it! Go CHOVY :)

7815.9.2005 12:42

so far mr.movies, you've put forth absolutely ZERO evidence to support your claims. So go ahead and keep tossing around the names. I really don't give a damn what you think.

7915.9.2005 15:32

Keep it up, chovy and you'll be a jr. member before this discussion stops.

8015.9.2005 15:41

i'll be sr. before i let this little punk get away with his shenanigans.

8115.9.2005 16:05
n0v0n
Inactive

Did I say something wrong? DOS was the beggining, than came APPLE with his little cute ICONS, everybody got hooked on APPLE (McINTOSHES). Everybody said ``to hell´´ with DOS. ...and than came WINDOWS...wu]ith the cute little ICONS...and the world was haapy and f@#$ APPLE. Of course we had others OSs available, such as ORACLE, IBM, and others that I don´t remember the name. NObody developed as many programs as did MICROSOFT. I am not a MICROSOFT fanatic...but...give something similar to MICROSOFT programs, that I can pick up in a grocery store, borrow from the neighbor (for a minute), buy a box full at auctions for 99cents a dozen... I don´t want to sit and scratch my head to develop a payroll sheet like you can do in EXCEL. You might even think that I´m narrow minded, but I not. I tried LINUX...but did not like it. I found it too complicated for me. I guess ``my´´ government thinks likewise. MICROSOFT is not perfect and never will, but the majority is still putting up with viruses, problems, defects, and upgrades after upgrades. I think LINUX is on the same boat...I SAID I THINK...because I´m not sure. IF there is a pool of expert LINUX individuals (and I am sure there are), they should band together and develop all the programs that MICROSOFT developed, to included all the programs that aaalll the other companies programed for the WINDOWS platform...design them for LINUX...at a real affordable price (no more than $20.00 a program)...and you might have a winner. So far I cannot walk into a store and buy PHOTOSHOP CS for LINUX from the shelf. There also should be someone that could write a program for LINUX that when installed on a WINDOWS platform would convert all the MICROSOFT stuff to LINUX automatically. WHAT A THOUGHT!!! Any LINUX takers?? 8>) n0v0n

8215.9.2005 21:33

Man, are you scary I’m really shaken in my boots now. Little155 does that stand for your little 1.55 inch wanker, must be… Maybe I should stay inside the rest of my life you little boys are so tough.

8316.9.2005 6:42

Linux definitely has a learning curve, and if you're trying it out on your own without any official training of any kind, it's going to be more difficult, unless your one of those self-starter types who can learn from forums and googling. I admit, Windows is so popular because it's ease of use, and they got in with IBM (the first pc maker) at a very early stage. The cost to the government of upgrading/managing virus ridden windows networks is probably more than the cost of training employees on learning linux. As far as programs go, people already have written alternatives to MS software products, most of which have been ported to Mac, Linux, and Windows :-) Gimp is a great alternative to $600 photoshop Open Office is a great alternative (and standards based I might ad) alternative to MS Office. The only win app I still buy is Quicken, becuase it kicks ass over GnuCash.

8416.9.2005 7:30

Nice to see you come around Linux is also very good as a Email and WEB server and for programming has a complete set of tools for free which you can't beat. I use Star and Open Office and like them also now that Nero has an alternative burn tool for linux that is a plus as well.

8516.9.2005 8:18

Yeah, I still use windows as my primary desktop solution, we use a remote vpn client at work, which only works on windows. I would prefer to run Linux, but managers just aren't into it. at home I still have an XP box so I can use Quicken and nero+dvdshrink. My fileserver runs linux+samba and apache, etc. I plan on dual-booting my athlon64 into Linux (and XP) soon enough though so I can use Linux as my primary desktop, at least when I'm not working from home.

8616.9.2005 8:28
n0v0n
Inactive

A few years ago I tried SUSE (don´t remember the version) and really got lost. Than I tried MANDRAKE and got lost too. You are correct in saying that without proper training you won´t get nowhere. It really takes a long time to switch off your inner MS WINDOWS switch. What is your suggestion for a LINUX starting point? Is there anything easy & free available? I am also pretty sure that one day the EMPIRE (MICROSOFT) will no longer strike back. Yes, MICROSOFT sometimes piss me off too.

8716.9.2005 8:33

A lot of people recommend trying knoppix or gnoppix (kde vs. gnome desktops). It's what's called a "live cd", in which you simply boot up, and everything is loaded into memory. This lets you test it out without even touching your harddrive. As soon as you remove the CD, you're back to windows. I typically read or search for tutorials or FAQs on the subject. You can also search "newbie guide" too in Google with whatever keywords pertain to your distro/problem at hand. Try googling '"newbie guide" knoppix' in Google (with double quotes).

8816.9.2005 8:34

I have to say though, it's really a matter of what you want to do. I personally think anyone can learn linux, sure it may be frustrating at times, but there's always a solution if you google the right way. I got my degree in marketing, so I know it's possible without a master's in computer science ;-)

8916.9.2005 10:00
n0v0n
Inactive

I will look into that thanks 8>)

9016.9.2005 10:10

The new versions of Sussie and Mandrake are really nice I think Mandrake is a little easier to use as it has a pretty good control panel. You can also use Mandrakes Live version which is like Knopix it boots right off the CD so if you screw up it isn't a big problem. Knopix 4.0 is really nice and now has plenty of games with it. The good thing about running off the CD with Linux is you can surf the WEB and not worry about getting trojan’d or hit. The only issue you might have is with NTFS partitions which you may run into difficulties saving any downloads to although this can be got around.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Sep 2005 @ 10:13

9116.9.2005 12:36

mr-movies is bipolar i think :-)

9216.9.2005 12:54

Well I had hoped you woke up but it seems you truly are stupid by choice or as I stated can’t read but whatever why waste good time on inept people. For your girlfriends sake maybe you’ll grow up someday if she lives that long, poor girl.

9316.9.2005 12:56

i rest my case.

9417.9.2005 19:00

Mr. Movies and Chovy..... Geeze guys, I'm just carrying on with you fellas. (Well no - I mean I am dead serious about DRM and all), but I am just teasing you, chovy. If ya wanna know the truth, I think you're quite smart. (No, really). I only kid around with smart people, cause mostly, I'm a genuis or something. You can't tell me anything, 'cause like, I'm so-o-o smart, I prackitally know everything already. and Mr. Movies ....... I 'appreciate your support, but please, let's ALL not call each other names, ok? We're all adamant about our beliefs, but we are JUST bouncing ideas off each other, ok? Take care, gentlemen.

9517.9.2005 19:36

hear hear gentlemen! "The correct term is, "hear, hear!" It is an abbreviation for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"" (i love the internet)

9625.9.2005 1:25
david987
Inactive

Mr movies should get a manager and stop handling himself

9725.9.2005 15:58

David, What are you talking about I have stayed true to my outlook and reasoning about Linux from the start unlike others who waver back and forth. I have stated that Linux isn't for the average person and why. I also have stated that I enjoy playing with Linux and that it has some, and I mean only some, good points. I wish that MAC and Linux would get better and compete with the demigod’s system. You obviously don't read enough of these threads or can't comprehend which is a shame. But think what you want, I could care less about your little snippets that aren't constructive or have basis, nothing new I'm afraid.

9826.9.2005 7:08

Chovy... (if you're still there....) This is what I mean by rampant, unannounced DRM infiltrating our ranks. Here's my latest findings, AND solution: The 7th-Season box set of the M*A*S*H television series is the newest culprit: This is a 3-Disc set. All three discs play fine in my two set-top DVD players, but disc # 2 is utterly unrecognizeable in my burner. (An LG model). The other two discs are recognized immediately by the burner, and rip perfectly, but disc # 2 is a flat-out NO-GO. The burner's front-panel LED flashes incessantly as it scrambles to make heads-or-tails of the disc. Then it just spits out an error mesage. IN FACT - I even booted into DOS (from a floppy) *directly* (bypassing windows altogether, and any DRM initiatives that might be hiding within it). Disc # 2 would STILL not be recognized! (The other two were fine and were recognized immediately, even in DOS). This narrowed down the problem considerably. NO WHERE on the discs' packaging does it mention that we have a "bastard" (copy-protected) disc on our hands. To add to my misery, I was once reading on some web-site-or-other, a list of current burner manufacturers who support DRM. Unfortunately, LG was among them. In other words, I have found that IF a) there is a "DRM" flag on any given disc, and b) IF a burner incorporates a chip that can detect this flag, THEN... The disc cannot be read by that burner. No ripping, no copying, no back-up. So..... what to do? I have run across more and more and more of these discs lately. (Simpson's, Columbo...). 20th Century Fox is a main offender, followed by Universal Pictures. More are sure to follow. (These are Region 1 discs). But anyway, a gent somwhere else in these forums suggested I try to find an older (pre-DRM) DVD-Rom, and try to rip from that. So yesterday I popped into a local computer shop and bought two discontinued (used-but-tested) DVD readers for only $20 each. An old Hitachi and an old Afreey model, each manufactured in 1999. In each case, I just unplugged the LG burner's ribbon cable and substituted the new (old) drives. THEY BOTH INSTANTLY RECOGNIZED MASH DISC # 2, and I got *perfect* rips with DVD-Decrypter!!! So f-i-n-a-l-l-y, that clinches it! Mystery over. Newly-made burners contain that miserable, wretched DRM Chip. It wouldn't matter if you or I were using Linux in this case - the crippling occurs because of a covert (SNEAKY) unnanounced implementation of DRM. It is a behind-the-scenes, sleazy hidden agreement between the movie (and TV) studios and the hardware manufacturers. Bye-bye "Fair Right's Use". OH well........ if anyone else has had the same kind of exasperating problem, (non-recognizable) dvds, I urge them to do the same as I have done. While they are still available, you might want to quickly get your hands on a spare DRM-free DVD-Rom or two. Mr. Movies !!!! (How ya been, big guy?) Best to all ..... Mike.

9926.9.2005 13:46

Unfortunately in the Linux world there is no AnyDVD that I'm aware of but for the Windows environment it is the trick as it gets around bad sector formats, CSS, DRM and so on, which an older ROM wouldn't. Minus the DRM crap your LG drive should be pretty good I've used them and have had solid luck with them. The old Hitachi drives are good to but the Afreey's have given me problems. My favorites are Lite-On and Asus but I like Plextor too if they weren't so expensive. The new Samsung and Toshiba suck, I believe the companies have merged. In the old days when Macrovision was a baby that's what we did with VCR's. You could also use the RF out instead of the RCA's to get rid of the flicker hash. Good work A_Klingon

10026.9.2005 19:07

You certainly know your burners, Mr. Movies!! Yep - indeed, the LG burner is probably the best one I've owned thus far. It's whisper quiet, makes flawless burns, burns at 8x without a quibble, and the loading tray isn't all wobbly and loose. Too bad dual-layer discs are so pricey or else I'd be using them too. And yep - that Afreey mode was/is a real clunker. I initially had to poke a paper-clip into the tray-release hole manually because I couldn't get the drawer to open. God only knows how long it had been sitting on the shelf. (The problem worked itself out though after a while). It took the darn thing THIRTY-FIVE (!!) minutes to rip the bum DVD (it only takes the LG about 10 mins to rip a disc), but what the hell? Point is - it worked - and hopefully it will work when I re-obtain those other box-sets that previously failed with the LG. (The Hitachi took about 25 mins to rip.) None of us are *ever* going to have any luck though, for a long-long-long time when the new Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD discs come out. It could take years. Happy ripping!! :-)

10127.9.2005 4:02
n0v0n
Inactive

...and that is why I keep all my old burners handy. Old things still work in a modern world. Remember those BIIIGGG old camcorders that some of us used to make VHS movies? Still have one of those too. n0v0n every rule has an exception

10228.9.2005 4:26

Keeping old burners is a good idea as long as it's still at least semi-functional. I have found that the laser wears out first - it might not fail outright, but become progressively worse - creating a lot of good burns and a lot of coasters. You never know which you will get. And sometimes I would look at a newly-burned disc and see "bands" where the laser temporarily failed - thus causing a coaster. BUT, the burner could still make good rips. The electronics might still be 100% perfect but like I say, the laser fails. I don't know how long standard DVDs will be with us once Blu-Ray takes over. There might be years of co-existence though, because it will take a while for High-definition to catch on in any BIG way, and right now, the studios are making an ungodly fortune from the sale and rental of standard DVDs.

1033.10.2005 7:30

That is my experience also that the laser goes bad, 99% of the time. You can sometimes crank up the laser strength and that may work for a short time but it is a bit of work for the short length of life you'll gain. The Blu-Ray should have no problems reading your old DVD-5's or 9's the new laser is quicker, more sensitive and provides higher density but should be backward compatible as far as readings your DVD's.

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