AfterDawn: Tech news

RIAA lawsuit victim loses appeal

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 12 Dec 2005 10:49 User comments (54)

RIAA lawsuit victim loses appeal Cecilia Gonzalez, 29, has lost an appeal against a decision by an earlier District Court hearing that awarded $22,500 damages to the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). She was accused of downloading and sharing copyrighted music on P2P networks, and is only one of many thousand U.S. P2P users that have been sued. She claimed that she was only downloading the music to sample it and that if she liked it, she would have bought it at a later date.
However, the appeals court wasn't convinced. "A copy downloaded, played and retained on one's hard drive for future use is a direct substitute for a purchased copy," the judges said. "Gonzalez' argument is no more relevant than a thief's contention that he shoplifted only 30 compact discs, planning to listen to them at home and pay later." Her lawyer had contested that she hadn't broken any copyright laws by sampling the music.

She had rejected a $3,500 settlement offered by the RIAA's settlement centre earlier on and the case was taken to court. She apparently downloaded and distributed at least 30 tracks. She was fined $750 per track.

Source:
The Register

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54 user comments

112.12.2005 11:09

Ya know, it's better to research means of protection when you put music on your hard drive, regardless of whether or not you own it or not, the RIAA is gonna come after ya if you're connected to a P2P network. It's inevitable.. So, my advice to those out there that wish to continue this, is to buy something like O&O SafeErase, and with a flick of the right hand click....it will overwrite/delete your music file with a 35 wipe method no trained RIAA monkey is gonna waste time on trying to recover any evidence..... Happy Music listening!!!

212.12.2005 11:30

or have a peice of thermite in your case with a thumb print enabler and when they come a knocker you scan and run like a mother fucker

312.12.2005 12:31

It's very doubtful that she was caught for downloading the music, but for the subsequent sharing that took place afterwards. She may have lost, but fortunately, at least she didn't lose after claiming innocence. Still waiting for those cases where innocent victims get to show just how unreliable the RIAA's methods are and make their sue-em-all cases dissolve right in front of them.

412.12.2005 12:35

! Before, she claimed that she had never downloaded anything and that the likely culprit would be her kid's friend.. Use PeerGuardian 2! -Mike

512.12.2005 12:57

I wonder how they figured to charge $750 a song and not the $1 that it costs to download them plus court costs???

Quote:
...it will overwrite/delete your music file with a 35 wipe method no trained RIAA monkey...
Love that Guttman!! Yeah, that's the way to go. Also, do not think that Formatting will hide anything. I recovered a complete hard drive that was formatted using $200 software. It also recovered some stuff from a previous OS that was installed. If you think you are in trouble, Peter Gutman everything on your hard drive. Then when you are finished, Peter Guttman the free space. Sure it will take a long time, but it's worth it!!!

612.12.2005 13:05

Quote:
no trained RIAA monkey is gonna waste time on trying to recover any evidence.....
Trust me, you have NO clue the levels these people will stoop to in an effort to try & scare people ~ take this little gem from a former torrent site which they brought to a halt: http://www.the-realworld.de Ok, so it wasn't the RIAA, but as good as ~ they are all the same in motives. As Mike states, why did she change the story? That is bound to get the Jury curious straight off!
Quote:
awarded $22,500 damages to the Recording Industry Association of America
Oh, please ~ Award?? They are greedy thieves!! I can't even bring myself to speak any further...

712.12.2005 15:33
llongtheD
Inactive

LMFAO, jwwolf. I still have a smile on my face after that post. You could just jerk your HD out of your machine and smash it with a sledge hammer as well.

812.12.2005 17:08

Quote:
LMFAO, jwwolf. I still have a smile on my face after that post. You could just jerk your HD out of your machine and smash it with a sledge hammer as well.
Seriously...If some FBI punks came knockin here I would run to my computer tear out my hard drive and smash it to pieces before they could touch it. On another note, she shouldn't have changed her story...stupid lawyer should have told her that.

912.12.2005 17:22

Quote:
Seriously...If some FBI punks came knockin here I would run to my computer tear out my hard drive and smash it to pieces before they could touch it.
Did you know that they can still recover all of the data that was on the dirve?? Same even if you burn it or put a giant magnet on it. The only way to securely destroy evidence is with the 35 pass Guttman method and if they are willing to spend the money, they can still find data on the HDD. However, if they are at the door, then that would be the best way to go. Actually, I would keep some rubbing alcohol (or gasoline) and matches neer the computer and just set the whole thing on fire and hope they are not willing to use microscopes to scan for data (after it is smashed to pieces that is). I would also destory the RAM and CPU as well as the BIOS chip. What do I care about a $2,000 loss from the PC being destroyed, the joy of destruction is more than enough!!!

1012.12.2005 17:25

poor lady i wonder how she's gonna plan to pay for it perhap a layaway payment plan.

1112.12.2005 18:18

Quote:
Before, she claimed that she had never downloaded anything and that the likely culprit would be her kid's friend..
That was a different person (Patricia Santangelo) - unless Cecilia Gonzalez tried the same thing, but since the article said she admitted to downloading to sample the music, I figured she hadn't.

1212.12.2005 18:23
llongtheD
Inactive

If she is actually financially strapped, maybe she should just file for bankruptcy. Leave those fuckers holding the bag. You know what they say, you can't get blood out of a turnip. If she were to agree to a payment plan, with interest, for the next 10 or 20 years over 100 songs, now that would be a travesty of justice.

1312.12.2005 19:14

Again if the RIAA wants to stop the Pirates, here is clue free and on me this time. When the artist makes a CD's put more than 2-3 good songs on it. And stop charging me $20 for those 3 hits. Again just look at what they want her to pay for the songs on her hard drive. $750 per track you can see what kind of reality they live in. They wish they could charge that for the CD's themselves. What is their cut from sales and what do the artists get??? Then you will see who is the real Pirates.

1413.12.2005 2:19

If they came knocking at my door... Itd be time for me to make a 400Gb pie in the microwave.

1513.12.2005 6:17
Oopsla
Inactive

Haven't you heard they made claiming bankruptsy a thing of the past. You can't go that route. Burn my hardrive? yeah right. The moral of the story is grab but don't share unless you burn disks for friends. My guess is you have RIAA lackys grabbing music from P2P and then tracing. After they get a magic number coming from anyone harddrive they file paperwork. As for the 750 per track, that pays for the lacky having to listen to all those crappy songs he just downloaded. Personally I would head for the gun closet. Who I aim at is any ones guess. But I won't say.

1613.12.2005 7:19

Agreed. However, you take the risk either way...as far as sharing goes, don't bother if you don't have the balls to give a little. Ya can't just keep taking... Two things to also keep in mind: External media. It's affordable, and transportable. Keep your music/movies OFF your main system. Setup your P2P to NOT use the automated 'My Sharing' folder, and stash your cache of media on an external device. The RIAA, or MPAA...isn't just gonna show up on your doorstep unless you have an ISP that doesn't care about being sued themselves. You "should" get a cease and desist order, or at least get notified by your ISP to stop. This is your wake up call...use it wisely. Get caught after this point, and you've given the rest of us a right to laugh at your dumb ass. The last thing...what happens in court? Two sides show up and debate until a settlement is reached. What happens when only one side shows up? 9/10 times, the settlement goes in favor of the party that was there. Same goes for legislation....the RIAA/MPAA is in court with little to no resistance from this side of the tracks...so get on your letters and emails to your legislators in your home town, and get pushing for backup rights, and rights to share what you own.

1713.12.2005 8:59

"The moral of the story is grab but don't share unless you burn disks for friends." HA... if everyone had that moral set in them there would be nothing to d/l... so please re-think how you use P2P.

1813.12.2005 9:05

Again - Use PeerGuardian 2! So you can share, download, upload, seed without needing to worry! -Mike

1913.12.2005 9:20
rsims17
Inactive

"The only way to securely destroy evidence is with the 35 pass Guttman method and if they are willing to spend the money, they can still find data on the HDD." Are you sure cause the DOD (Department of Defense) Standard is seven passes and gutenburg is thiry five. I would trust that the DOD isnt letting their data be recovered. "$750 per track" What f***ing weird a** world is this 750 per track so lets see a dollar per track say two years ago at infinty billion f***ing interest oh yea i guess that adds up... if your some a** puppet that thinks for one minute sueing your consumer will help your business. Anyone ever work retail what do they tell you to do about theft? NOTHING its not worth the PR sh*t storm, maybe the RIAA and the mpaa need to get a clue. Take realistic measures not a f***ing rootkit thank you sony for your infinite wisdom as to horrid business practices.

2013.12.2005 11:45

Quote:
So you can share, download, upload, seed without needing to worry!
Yet.

2113.12.2005 13:07

Hmm..? -Mike

2213.12.2005 16:19

Mike, one by one each P2P network will be found...and pursued as part of the ongoing lawsuits. Like I've posted before, ducking and hiding is not the solution on our end, because they see/feel NO resistance from us. They'll keep coming, and we keep running? Anyone else getting tired of going from Kazaa, to Morpheus, to WinMX to Limewire, to Warez, to Peer Guardian?.....to????? That's what I am saying...Peer Guardian may be in front of those not yet investigated, but it's known to them, and will eventually be targeted. There are extremely intelligent people on both sides of this dilemma, and it's time to stop playing games and settle into something more realistic.

2313.12.2005 16:26

Quote:
I wonder how they figured to charge $750 a song and not the $1 that it costs to download them plus court costs???
Quote:
What f***ing weird a** world is this 750 per track so lets see a dollar per track say two years ago at infinty billion f***ing interest oh yea i guess that adds up...
shhesh, didn't anyone read the actual story! the damages afre for UPLOADING, the decsion says the fine is for "distribution. downloading is IMPOSSIBLE to prosecute without an ADMISSION. Dowloanding damages with an admission would be extremely low, in this case $30 This high award is for distibuting damages which could easily be shown to be a 1,000 times retail.
Quote:
Anyone ever work retail what do they tell you to do about theft? NOTHING its not worth the PR sh*t storm,
What? Not true in any of quite a number of retail outlets I maganaged when I was younger. Everyone is ignoring a basic fact. If every song got onto p2p and there were no technical or legal impediments no one could sell a thing. I disgree with a lot of RIAA tactics but the fact is unimpeeded p2p would completely kill the digital ip business and we all know it.

2413.12.2005 16:28

more to the point his woman should be more mad at her lawyer than the RIAA. I am sure the EFF would never touch this case as the woman convicted herself.

2513.12.2005 16:37

Quote:
Are you sure cause the DOD (Department of Defense) Standard is seven passes and gutenburg is thiry five. I would trust that the DOD isnt letting their data be recovered.
Here is a quote regarding the 35 pass maethod:
Quote:
Data overwritten once or twice may be recovered by subtracting what is expected to be read from a storage location from what is actually read. Data which is overwritten an arbitrarily large number of times can still be recovered provided that the new data isn't written to the same location as the original data (for magnetic media), or that the recovery attempt is carried out fairly soon after the new data was written (for RAM). For this reason it is effectively impossible to sanitise storage locations by simple overwriting them, no matter how many overwrite passes are made or what data patterns are written. However by using the relatively simple methods presented in this paper (the 35 pass method) the task of an attacker can be made significantly more difficult, if not prohibitively expensive.
Read the paper to see why the 35 pass method is more effective: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html

2613.12.2005 20:22

@Morph416: You didn't quite seem to understand what PeerGuardian is. :P It's an IP blocker that blocks connections to known anti-P2P IP addresses, and it works with any P2P network that uses TCP/UDP to communicate (so basically, everything).

2713.12.2005 21:39

Yeah, you don't realise just how powerful and effectie PG2 is. --> http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2 -Mike

2813.12.2005 21:44

she should have said i already own those cd but it's impossible to ripped to my hd so that's y i used the p2p.

2914.12.2005 6:25

@nono, and mike.... Don't underestimate your enemy. If you found this site, this software...then you need to understand that in the world of software, there are things that do one thing, and things written to do just the opposite. I understand your faith in this product, as we all are in things that have new protocols for preventative measures...just sleep with one eye open.

3014.12.2005 8:34
rsims17
Inactive

@ S2K Good point i failed to think of the distribution of the songs which yes can be very large. However i disagree with your second statement the larger business's such as bestbuy lowes walmart and so forth target a vast majority of there security at there employees, not the consumer. smaller businesses i would imagine to be less willing to accept minor losses with a smaller profit margin so they would probably be more balenced. I am curious though in your training with the outlets what did they instruct you to do in the case that you see someone pocket a cd or dvd etc? You raise a good point P2P has the potential to kill the business itself but that does not mean it will its possible, maybe even probable. so yes P2P can potential back fire by putting our favorite artists out of the game. Here is my personall issue i will not pay 15 for a cd that has 3 good songs and 12 fillers and yes even in the business they are known as fillers a handfull of chart toppers and the rest are crap. Any artist producer or label that thinks they can pull that should be forcibly removed from the gene pool. My other issue sheer gread. a dvd costs the same as a cd, now if eminem is dropping 350 million to make his last cd then thats one thing, but hes not. Oh and lets not forget that the artist themselves the poor poor artists, their primary income is from concerts and appearences and endorsments; the label and the producers take the lions share from cd sales. I dont feel like i want to support kenya west (a long time producer) maintaining his american express black card. @ JaguerGod mmm well ill be damned, i didnt read that link dont have the time but i will thats interesting @ anyone talking about PG2 it is a software based firewall simple as that the problem is that ever IP address it blocks you can download so the enemy can all too easily see what IP's PG2 is blocking and use one it doesnt block

3114.12.2005 11:47

PeerGuardian is by no means infallible, but having it is better than not having it. There's no way for an 'enemy' to 'do the exact opposite' and somehow cancel out the fact that you blocked their connection. Once a connection is blocked, it's blocked. An anti-P2P group can't develop some kind of sneaky software that allows them to connect from an IP address that's on the list - it just doesn't work (unless it's spyware that exists on the same machine as PeerGuardian, but we've all seen the result of the recording industry using spyware against their customers). Like rsims17 said, they can use an IP address that's not on the list, but that IP address will only remain off the list for so long. Long story short, PeerGuardian may not make it impossible for them to catch you, but it does make it harder.

3214.12.2005 13:27
074kev
Inactive

"Gonzalez' argument is no more relevant than a thief's contention that he shoplifted only 30 compact discs, planning to listen to them at home and pay later." No comparison. If the record company was hit by a theif, all their albums would be gone.

3314.12.2005 16:26

"Haven't you heard they made claiming bankruptsy a thing of the past. You can't go that route." -This is false. It is harder to file now but not impossible. They changed the requirements that is all. For those of you saying you'd destroy your hdds if the FBI were at the door I doubt you'd have time to do anything. Also, they only need evidence of you IP address downloading/updating to prosecute you so even if you did destroy the data you'd still be screwed. As for PG2 it does stop people from connecting to you but what if you are using bittorrent? Anyone who connects to the tracker can see who else is downloading without even connecting to you.

3415.12.2005 9:41

That's true and they'd probably try and sue you over it, but that's where the unreliable techniques of the recording industry come into view. With only your IP address, there's no way they can prove that you are uploading and/or downloading anything. Meaning if the case actually went to court they'd have nothing but digital hearsay - a log of a tracker that said your IP address was part of the torrent. Unless they actually connect to you and download off you, they have no true evidence that you've uploaded anything.

3516.12.2005 12:15

No one is perfect, everyone has housework that goes undone...everyone with a computer has files that need tidying. Keep the CD's you buy. In court, present the CD's, photo's of the inside of your fridge and examples of two week old unwashed socks. Case over. Oh, and make sure you send Bono and Britney a Christmas card apologising for them having one less glass of Crystal over the holiday season...the venal fudgers!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Dec 2005 @ 14:46

3616.12.2005 14:35

davysue - Please edit out the F-word. Rule # 6

Quote:
No foul language, insults, personal attacks or otherwise rude messages
Thanks
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Dec 2005 @ 14:37

3716.12.2005 14:50

I can not believe that you are serious. It is permissable to write F***...when everyone knows that the word is f*&%...and yet want me to change it to fudge or freak or something else a tad anodyne. You funty bunster you. Seriously sad and tired.


"They copied all they could follow
but they couldn't copy my mind
so I left them sweating and stealing
a year and a half behind."
Kipling:The Mary Gloster

3816.12.2005 22:01
rsims17
Inactive

dude its the f word its just a f***ing word, if you dont like the show change the channel beauty of the internet no censorship.... or would you prefere flowery kitty ;)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Dec 2005 @ 10:19

3917.12.2005 0:17

Quote:
dude its the f word its just a word
Regardless of it just being a word, you should respect other member's requests especially when it comes to course words. Anyway, it has also been stated by Lethal that it is also against the forum rules. So I highly reccomend you watch your mouth if you wish to stay any longer. The mods here do keep order. -Mike
http://my.afterdawn.com/mik3h/blog_entry.cfm/1394 - Guides written by me.
http://www.adbuddies.org/ - Join us Live on IRC!

(Kudos to Ripper For The Beautiful Sig!)

4017.12.2005 2:40

Growing up I bought a huge collection of vinyl records. Then, all of a sudden, when I needed a new record player and receiver, all of them made my vinyl records sound really bad. Appears that something called a 'subsonic filter' made just to keep your vinyl records sounding good was removed. Oh well, guess what? 8 Track players had just come out. Ok, sold the vinyl and got all 8 tracks. Guess what? Came a day when 8 Track players were no longer available. Old one dead. Not to worry, Cassette had just come out. Sold my 8 Tracks and again bought my music collection in Cassette form. Well, guess what? Cassettes have a 'lifespan' that is quite short. There came a day when they all started going 'bad'. NOT TO WORRY!!! CD's had just come out. Well, I ended up having to throw out all the cassettes, and started to re-buy for the FOURTH TIME my music collection. However, something snapped. I had had it. Had a cable installer tell me about Napster (back when it was free), and I have never looked back. After buying my music FOUR TIMES, I really don't feel bad about P2P at all. I DO pay for Christian Music CD's, but all the oldies stuff that I bought 4 times is P2P. IMHO isepiq

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Dec 2005 @ 8:17

4117.12.2005 4:44

davysue

Quote:
I can not believe that you are serious. It is permissable to write F***...when everyone knows that the word is f*&%...and yet want me to change it to fudge or freak or something else a tad anodyne.
Look, I don't know what your problem is, but as a Senior member I feel I should show some sort of an example around here. Foul language is against the rules. You seem to be forgetting that this is a public forum ~ meaning children of any age could be on here. Imagine if everyone swore in their posts - it would look really bad on the forums. Lastly,
Quote:
You funty bunster you. Seriously sad and tired
Why attack me? I do not make the rules, all I do is try and remind people of them for the sake of not being banned. rsims17
Quote:
dude its the f word its just a fucking word, if you dont like the show change the channel beauty of the internet no censorship.... or would you prefere buck futter
Like I said to the davysue, I was merely pointing out the rules! It's not a question of what I prefer, it's a question of whether the Admin team accepts it in their forums.. The sooner you learn that and stop acting so childish, the better

4217.12.2005 4:57

rsims17 & davysue, Forum rules are forum rules. You don't like em ... leave. Seriously ... they're simple rules. It's not that hard. Also, quit being a smart a** cause you didn't read or understand the forum rules. Acting in that manner towards long time members is a good way to get yourself kicked from aD. @Lethal, Next time just report it.


4317.12.2005 10:16
rsims17
Inactive

Lethal_B You raise a good point with the fact children can find it and for that i will edit my previous post. less we forget however meer language is by far the most inocent of things children can find online; everything in life is relative. what is worse for a kid to see four letters or debbie going down on the farm... literally. I find myself drifting off form time to time thinking about the morals of the societies of the world, and it really is entertaining such petty things we view to be so horrid. Can i be a smart a** instead of childish :) Free speach truely is beautiful though, we can all say whatever we wish; it would be very ironic (though insanely improbabable) that this site was removed from the internet for aiding in its visitors make backups for there digital property. Our beloved moderator Forum rules are rules, i have read them, i do understand them they are in fact very simple. I view long time members no different than us "newbie's" however i can understand the seniors higher rank to you. know this i am editing my previous post for Lethal_B, i respect his reasons why, impressionalbe young minds. i am not editing it for you or the fear of being kicked off. you must do what you must do and i understand that and respect that. (i edited the a** for our friend lethal)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Dec 2005 @ 10:18

4417.12.2005 11:41

so what can we use to stop us from being traced, maybe use peergaurdian?


Yours Truly; Rav
BitTorrent Safety Guide: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/395674
Free Security Software: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/292257
The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

4517.12.2005 12:33

Yes! It really protects you and the lists are updated daily! -Mike


http://my.afterdawn.com/mik3h/blog_entry.cfm/1394 - Guides written by me.
http://www.adbuddies.org/ - Join us Live on IRC!

(Kudos to Ripper For The Beautiful Sig!)

4617.12.2005 12:38

thanks for that one mike,ive instaled and it seems to look very good. hopefully ill be safe from anti p2p companys now, is their anything i could also do to lessen the chance of being traced?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Dec 2005 @ 12:39

Yours Truly; Rav
BitTorrent Safety Guide: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/395674
Free Security Software: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/292257
The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

4717.12.2005 12:43

Quote:
@Lethal, Next time just report it.
Cool flip, no probs.

4817.12.2005 14:10

I just can't get over that sig of yours.. :( Yeah PG2 is real good, I don't think there are anymore ways to stay truly protected as you are with PG2. -Mike


http://my.afterdawn.com/mik3h/blog_entry.cfm/1394 - Guides written by me.
http://www.adbuddies.org/ - Join us Live on IRC!

(Kudos to Ripper For The Beautiful Sig!)

4921.12.2005 8:19

For the ultimate in protection, do a google search for a website called bluetack in the uk. You won't regret it.

5022.12.2005 4:13

Quote:
For the ultimate in protection, do a google search for a website called bluetack in the uk. You won't regret it.
yes i searched that and it looked like a dodgey site, it said it was a tracking site, is this the one you are talking about?
Yours Truly; Rav
BitTorrent Safety Guide: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/395674
Free Security Software: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/292257
The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

5224.12.2005 1:37

ok can you just tell us what that bluetack is, as you have not givin any detail on it i will rather not click that link.


Yours Truly; Rav
BitTorrent Safety Guide: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/395674
Free Security Software: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/292257
The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

5324.12.2005 6:59

Oh come on... Just click on it.. it's for internet and P2P safety.. -Mike


http://my.afterdawn.com/mik3h/blog_entry.cfm/1394 - Guides written by me.
http://www.adbuddies.org/ - Join us Live on IRC!

(Kudos to Ripper For The Beautiful Sig!)

5424.12.2005 7:08

hmmm, its ok a similar site is http://www.p2pforums.com/


Yours Truly; Rav
BitTorrent Safety Guide: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/395674
Free Security Software: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/292257
The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

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