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Update: Woman owes $220,000 to recording industry over pirated music

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 04 Oct 2007 14:54 User comments (46)

Update: Woman owes $220,000  to recording industry over pirated music Duluth resident Jammie Thomas has been found guilty by a jury in US District Court of having downloaded and shared 24 specific unauthorized music files and was ordered to pay the recording industry $220,000 USD.
The number, although ridiculously high, could have been much worse. The evidence presented shows that Thomas' system could have been responsible for pirating over 1700 tracks meaning she would have been liable for up to $16 million USD.

The case, which only lasted a day, had tons of testimony from corporate representatives including unbelievable testimony by a Sony BMG rep that said that all ripping of music from retail CDs, even for personal use, is theft. Imagine that, getting the music from your own paid for CDs, and you are a thief.

However, the evidence was too obvious for Thomas to have a chance. A shared Kazaa folder was found on her system although Thomas still maintains she has no idea who put it there.

Unfortunately, the shared folder linked to a Kazaa account which directly linked to an IP address which linked directly to a MAC address used by a broadband modem connected to Thomas' computer. Clearly too much evidence for innocence.

$220,000 USD for 24 songs, what has happened to the world?

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46 user comments

14.10.2007 15:16
Bubba4u
Inactive

appeal

24.10.2007 15:29

wow 220,000 for 24 songs?

thats like 2 cd's!

can this be a sign for every limewire user?

34.10.2007 15:33

Quote:
The evidence presented shows that Thomas' system could have been responsible for pirating over 1700 tracks meaning she would have been liable for up to $16 million USD.
Can you possibly imagine the public reaction if that actually happened?

44.10.2007 15:36

Quote:
Quote:
The evidence presented shows that Thomas' system could have been responsible for pirating over 1700 tracks meaning she would have been liable for up to $16 million USD.
Can you possibly imagine the public reaction if that actually happened?
it would be nice if the public revolted over 20K much less 200......

54.10.2007 15:47
Kerpalguy
Inactive

Talk about a tainted jury. Wonder what gratuities the judge and jury received from the mighty lobby RIAA. There's no justice in this decision at all - what a farce. The RIAA is suing their own customers in the end. I'll be damned if I buy another CD ever again.

64.10.2007 15:58

Well that's just a load of shit...

Quote:
she would have been liable for up to $16 million USD.

They would've never charged her because everyone would be like
WOAHWOAHHOLDONNASECONDWTF

Interesting...pirate 2 CDs and the RIAA jams a 220000 bill up your ass. I'd like to see their faces if they ever got a hold of my 160gig iPod.

74.10.2007 16:21

Originally posted by Bubba4u:
appeal
apparently there might be grounds for one:
Quote:
According to reports, the judge instructed the jury that for Thomas to be found guilty, the RIAA needed to prove only that the files were made available on Kazaa, not that anyone copied them.

-abc news

84.10.2007 16:25

hmmm $220,000 for 24 songs .... *looks at harddrives, chuckles* good luck breaking 3 simaltaneous 256 bit encyptions ahahahah...

no but seriously ripping music from your own cd is theft? since when douchebag i bet he rips music from the cds he bought and plays em on his ipod.

APPEAL the fine, they got you with the mac address alone/kazzaa folder.

94.10.2007 16:25

Think about it?

If they go through with every Law Suit they have out and win everyone then what would be left of the country. You tell me someone you don't know who does not have a ripped CD or they have not downloaded some form of music or movie. So is this going to turn into the Police stepping in and giving us 1000 dollar tickets if we get pulled over and we have burnt CD's in out cars. What will the Rich Greedy Corporations think of next. And its nice of our supreme court to let this continue with these outrageous suits.

I suggest that we start a petition where people sign and they pledge to not buy any Music or Movies for lets say 6 months. And get as many people on board as possible and put a small yet insignificant dent in the wallet of the companies. And to stop boredom we start a sharing site where for the 6 months or further people can let other people borrow their music or movies, Its not illegal to let someone borrow something!!!!!!!!!!! If anything we can end up on Late Night TV and become famous for about 5 min!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

104.10.2007 16:38

finally a reason why not to live in the US plus my isp uses dynamic no way to find me :)

114.10.2007 16:49

^^^

Where did you get the idea they cant find you because of a dynamic ip?? That is absurd! Ip blahblahblah was logged doing x on date y at time z....whois then a report is filed to your isp...boom.



124.10.2007 17:04

Quote:
$220,000 USD for 24 songs, what has happened to the world?

Well I don't know about the rest of you, but news like this makes me twitch as I am slowly driven insane.

134.10.2007 17:11

i guess this is why the majority of them settle out of court

144.10.2007 17:13

Originally posted by svtstang:
^^^

Where did you get the idea they cant find you because of a dynamic ip?? That is absurd! Ip blahblahblah was logged doing x on date y at time z....whois then a report is filed to your isp...boom.
didn't know anyway while outside the U.s no rules

154.10.2007 17:15

OK, WOW. I stopped using limewire years ago when I started becoming computer knowladgeable. I just download user created amv's off of youtube and convert them to mp3's, no extraction, so technically it's still a video, but in an audio format. I thinnk this is loop hole? But that women should at least spoof here mac address.

164.10.2007 17:50

Ok people I hate the RIAA to but ya know what she got what she deserved all you people bitch bitch bitch about the RIAA. The RIAA is not the problem here people WE are. We as consumers allow orgs like the RIAA MPAA and others to BUY our elected leaders so they get laws passed that benifit themselves and there bottom lines not the people they represent. Yet we do nothing we allow horrible anti consumer legislation to get passed then get all pissed when someone violates that sweet law the RIAA got written in the law? WTF people Its OUR fault we gave the RIAA this power and WE must take it back. The lady in this case got what the law says she should get. As far as you blameing the judge thats crap he has to do what the law says and right now the law says shes guilty of copyright infringement. WE ALLOWED THE RIAA THIS POWER NOW WERE UPSET THEY ARE USING IT REALLY? What did you think would happen they would not use it to there advantage? GET INVOLVED. FIGHT BACK. But no its far easier to bitch how the RIAA are a bunch of ass holes then actually doing anything about it!!!

174.10.2007 17:51

Be afraid, be very very afraid!

184.10.2007 17:58

She should have used emule. Yeah its a bit more difficult to learn..but worth it. And light years safer than that Kazaa/Imesh crap. I think Ive got every discography ever made from emule, all 500 gigs worth. Its amazing what emule users in Germany and Canada share in archive format ;)

194.10.2007 18:08

Originally posted by justme81:
The RIAA is not the problem here people WE are. We as consumers allow orgs like the RIAA MPAA
OK so what would you suggest? Molotov cocktails?

You throw the first.

204.10.2007 18:42

Originally posted by justme81:
GET INVOLVED. FIGHT BACK. But no its far easier to bitch how the RIAA are a bunch of ass holes then actually doing anything about it!!!
justme81 why don't you just tell me what your doing to FIGHT BACK.

214.10.2007 19:09
WierdName
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by justme81:
GET INVOLVED. FIGHT BACK. But no its far easier to bitch how the RIAA are a bunch of ass holes then actually doing anything about it!!!
justme81 why don't you just tell me what your doing to FIGHT BACK.
They are going around getting other people to start doing stuff. I think what I'll do is go on the news constantly tapping my head with a hammer until the RIAA, MPAA, etc. all shut down.

224.10.2007 20:18

Quote:
Originally posted by justme81:
GET INVOLVED. FIGHT BACK. But no its far easier to bitch how the RIAA are a bunch of ass holes then actually doing anything about it!!!
justme81 why don't you just tell me what your doing to FIGHT BACK.
There are many orgs that you could join and support EFF for one. Contact you congressman senator any little thing helps but thats right just call me dumb or an idiot. THE BIG THING IS VOTE. The elected officals wont listen to people who dont vote why do you think the AARP is so strong and why medicare, perscription drugs, social security and the older generations issues are getting attention while the issues us young people care about dont? WE DONT VOTE. But thats right just brush me off.

234.10.2007 21:30

justme81 you didn't answer the question.
here would be my answer:
I DO VOTE, I DON'T buy new cd's, I buy very few dvd's (only classic disney) from time to time for my children, I support eff.

I have a idea. Every election vote for the challenger to the incumbent. How many of these reps. do you think would give up their high paying jobs to sit around "debating" what's "best" for the rest of us if they couldn't stay there for years? I'd bet not many.

Also a good quote to remember!

"CON is the opposite of PRO, so CONgress must be the opposite of PROgress?!"

hmm I think I'll change part of my sig!

244.10.2007 21:35

Quote:
"CON is the opposite of PRO, so CONgress must be the opposite of PROgress?!"
I really like that!



254.10.2007 21:37

Originally posted by justme81:
but thats right just call me dumb or an idiot.
Slow down, no one is calling you dumb or an idiot. Just wantted to know what you were doing to fight back so maybe I could try it. You just sounded like someone that would know what to do by the way you were talking. You still didn't answer my question. You told me what I could do, but not what you were doing.

265.10.2007 2:59

thanks svstang unfortunately i think it's all to true!

275.10.2007 3:54

You're absolutely right justme81, people should get involved and fight back if you feel that your consumer's privacy and fair use rights are not respected, indeed only complaining about it does nothing to improve the situation.

If you're a paying costumer of music or movies at stores or online, you rightfully feel disgusted that you could be treated as a thief, and being restricted to make personal use of your own paid goods... but let's be realistic, we weren't facing this situation if everybody was a paying costumer.

While CD and DVD sales have declined compared to previous years, indeed due to overpricing and a lack of good music and movies, P2P file sharing activity has increased in the past years, and unfortunately not all who downloaded a song or movie has eventually bought the CD or DVD. Facing such scenario it was just a matter of time for such extreme measures.

I don't agree with RIAA and MPAA persecution tactics, certanly a 220,000 fine for 24 songs is outrageous, but i suggest you all to think what have you been doing to cause this situation, and what you can do to help a positive resolution.

Indeed this year showed an increase in movie tickets and DVD profit sales, and paid music downloads are more popular, which means that if they produce good quality music and movies at more accesible prices, consumers will be more interested in paying for them... but still more needs to be done before we can reach a friendly consumer scenario that benefits both parties.

I understand that if the song or movie ain't that good, or may be good enough to own but the CD or DVD its overpriced, you would feel reluctant to purchase it, but there's a huge difference from downloading a couple of songs and videos for free, than hundreds of CD albums and movie releases, this only agravates the problem as they perceive this as profit loss.

Certanly you start a pledge to not buy any music or movies for lets say 6 months, and it might make a insignificant statement, but i'm afraid that this will also increase P2P activity even more, and then radical measures enforced by law could take place... unless you all can commit to stop file sharing as well, then you can send a strong message that you'll reject their music and movies unless they change their stragety.

Your goal should be to achieve that your consumer's privacy and fair use rights are respected, no more DRM, no more persecution and lawsuits. You should also pursue a reduction in music and movie prices so that everybody can feel willing to pay for them.

Most consumers feel that even when some stores offer them at discount prices, CD and DVD still are overpriced, and paid downloadable songs and videos should cost less, to achieve full acceptance and demand.

But it also requieres a commitment on your behalf, that if such reduction occurs, you'll actually pay for music and movies, and avoid downloading them for free, otherwise this situation will continue to escalate.

285.10.2007 7:00

There are a few snags in the whole fight back topic. First people are either to damn lazy or to damn scared or just plainly dont give a shiznit. Thats why they have the power thats why these BS cases are won and thats why we will have to put up with new and foolish attempts to scard or stop piracy as they call it.

295.10.2007 7:15

This was a case of DISTRIBUTION the penalty for simply downloading the tracks would be like 2 dollars a track.

nobody stop downlaoding, download the media giants into oblivion!

305.10.2007 7:39

well I turned on the tv this morning and guess what fox news had a short 30 second segment on this case and claimed she was accused of being responsible for sharing over 2,000 songs. This is the first time I’ve ever seen one of these cases hit the mainstream news. It remains to be seen whether this will spread to other media outlets and be debated. Im waiting to see if this will help or hurt her chances if she decides to file an appeal.

(and yes I watch fox news mostly for comic relief)

315.10.2007 8:10

@ematrix
That was well written and makes so much sense. I believe that regardless of how good DVD and music sales are (in whichever format), the industries are still going to claim losses. They are going to claim that they could have made more. It's a fight against file sharing technology. They want to destroy it regardless of the benfits it may have. They have no real way to claim actual losses, and customers have no real way of disputing their outrageous claims (besides the fact that for the most part, they sound extremely outrageous). Laws are in place and they have been waging their war against P2P since the days of Napster. I have to admit, every time I play a backup of my DVD's and see the FBI warning of 5 years or a $150,000, I'm just disgusted. Every time I see the FBI warning on a CD that I buy, I feel afraid. Because I feel that my fair use rights have been stripped away. It's not a good feeling, and it makes me hate the industry even more. It makes me not want to buy a CD, but I can't not do that. I like music and I want to hear my favorite artists. But after reading this article, I don't know how much more abuse I can take from them.

325.10.2007 8:23

These P2P settlements and court appearances are ridiculous. But, with the attention drawn to them, I wonder why people are even still using the P2P format.
I learned about Usenet a couple years back and since signed up with a great Usenet provider. Speeds are many times better than any craptacular torrent or P2P network, its more reliable, and you're not connected to any 'swarm'.
Seriously, there's no other option for me.

335.10.2007 8:43

It all comes down to one little thing. MONEY. A $220,000 fine for just 24 song, that’s crazy.

345.10.2007 9:09

well that means the amount of money i owe could pay back our country's deficit

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Oct 2007 @ 9:10

355.10.2007 9:23

Pack your bags and move to Sweden. Yahhh Yahhhh.

I wonder who's going to be sued next or if this lady is going to get any assistance from folks like TPB. This is pretty intimidating to say the least. I got three computers in my house and how do I know if my kids are illegally sharing unauthorized content when I'm not around and what can I do to stop it?

The battle between ultra-capitalism and ultra-communism has begun and its funny to see who's the players on both sides of the spectrum.

365.10.2007 10:33

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by justme81:
GET INVOLVED. FIGHT BACK. But no its far easier to bitch how the RIAA are a bunch of ass holes then actually doing anything about it!!!
justme81 why don't you just tell me what your doing to FIGHT BACK.
There are many orgs that you could join and support EFF for one. Contact you congressman senator any little thing helps but thats right just call me dumb or an idiot. THE BIG THING IS VOTE. The elected officals wont listen to people who dont vote why do you think the AARP is so strong and why medicare, perscription drugs, social security and the older generations issues are getting attention while the issues us young people care about dont? WE DONT VOTE. But thats right just brush me off.
I applaud your earnest desire to correct things. Many have had desires similar to yours, but ultimately realized the unhappy truth.

Before he lost his way, Dennis Miller, on one of his rants, once said,

"You think you can change things? Take a look in the eyes of an 80 year old."

OK, granted, from time to time something good gets accomplished. But from an historical perspective, things keep getting worse and not better. That was the point. I mean, mercy, we're about to fry the planet via global warming and nobody much seems to care!

I gave up on politics when GWB got elected a second time. I mean, who would vote for that guy a SECOND time? The electorate is the "TV generation", stretching from the baby-boomers to today. Dolts who get their info from 30 second politicical ads 'cause they don't want to miss Survivor. That's not gonna change. He who buys the most 30-second ads and produces them well enough to sway the masses wins.

That's why some have chosen to just "get their's", like the bullies in power have been doing all along. I don't agree with that approach, but I certainly understand it.

Is there a way out? Not that I know of...unless God in heaven above (Meatballs quote) steps in and decides enough is enough.

I haven't entirely ruled that out.

-Lloyd7

375.10.2007 10:50

Wow! I guess the RIAA really did have the evidence! (The defense had claimed that they couldn't prove it.)

Quote:
I got three computers in my house and how do I know if my kids are illegally sharing unauthorized content when I'm not around and what can I do to stop it?
Yeah, that's a tough one... Here in the U.S., if your kids do something criminal, they are held responsible by the juevnile justice system.

You can't sue a minor, but if there is a civil claim (and this was a civil case), the parents are generally liable! So, if your kids break a window, they sue you amd can make you pay for it. If your kids burn down the school, I doubt they will go after you... unless you are wealthy and can actually pay for the damage.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Oct 2007 @ 10:56

385.10.2007 10:50

Does anyone really read the full post on any of these.

As I said before I think I would be a great idea for us to begin our own movement since the ones that have been up for years now are getting nothing done. If we start are own and keep it going then maybe we can get our voices heard. Here is the original idea:

"I suggest that we start a petition where people sign and they pledge to not buy any Music or Movies for lets say 6 months. And get as many people on board as possible and put a small yet insignificant dent in the wallet of the companies. And to stop boredom and some p2p sharing we start a "sharing site" where for the 6 months or further people can let other people "borrow" or "trade" their music or movies, Its not illegal to let someone borrow or trade something!!!!!!!!!!! If anything we can end up on Late Night TV and become famous for about 5 min!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And as for the argument over whether to vote or not. Sure go ahead and vote but if you knew anything about the " Electoral College" it would give you insight into the fact that your vote doesn't really count worth a shit since it has never been adjusted for the population flux since its origination. But try as you might and it wont count for shit oh' and don't forget the fact that in the last election it was found that ballots were somehow accidentally " Thrown away" and lost or they could not be read correctly. Almost like a recent election I heard about on Public radio where their were more votes cast than the number of people living in the country. LoL.

395.10.2007 10:56

Originally posted by edsrouter:
Pack your bags and move to Sweden. Yahhh Yahhhh.

I wonder who's going to be sued next or if this lady is going to get any assistance from folks like TPB. This is pretty intimidating to say the least. I got three computers in my house and how do I know if my kids are illegally sharing unauthorized content when I'm not around and what can I do to stop it?

The battle between ultra-capitalism and ultra-communism has begun and its funny to see who's the players on both sides of the spectrum.
Just a suggestion:

Why not invest in a nice Firewall and a Very Nice VPN Router and block the normal ports for Sharing files. And if you are a gamer and this would affect you then just set up a port forward for the game and take down the block for the short time you are playing. Also you would be able to protect your kids from porn and yourself from hackers all at the same time. So why not spend the 800- 1000 dollars to save your hide from having to mortgage your home at some point from file sharing.

405.10.2007 11:35

To Solo_Tek:

I know this dude, but this is the age we're living in. You go to work and then come back home and possibly get blasted by a huge lawsuit because someone in your household committed copyright fraud that was easily obtainable by clicking a mouse. Why do I have to worry about this?

All I'm saying is if the internet is so sensitive now, *bleep* it, I'm getting rid of it.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Oct 2007 @ 6:43

415.10.2007 12:14

Originally posted by Lloyd7:
I applaud your earnest desire to correct things. Many have had desires similar to yours, but ultimately realized the unhappy truth.

Before he lost his way, Dennis Miller, on one of his rants, once said,

"You think you can change things? Take a look in the eyes of an 80 year old."

OK, granted, from time to time something good gets accomplished.
From a historical standpoint, good things get accomplished when they serve the interest of the people in power. And the only thing that serves their interests is the $$$.

425.10.2007 12:41

Well this has probably already been said I would like to point something out.

Quote:
A shared Kazaa folder was found on her system although Thomas still maintains she has no idea who put it there.
As I am sure most of you know KaZaA automatically puts a "Shared" folder on your computer and the songs you download are placed there.

What if the music was put there by a trojan or some other virus? Did they do a forensic scan on her computer to find what kind of viruses she had on it? I am sure she had at least one or two trojans.

Even if she personally installed KaZaA she could say "Hey I don't know what they do but the trojans probably put the songs on there".

That has gotten a few kids (who were really innocent) out of life in prison for having pictures of naked children on there PCs that were put there by a trojan.

$220,000? Did some judge rule that ~$9,167 per song was illegal?

Peace

4311.10.2007 13:08

Quote:
The case, which only lasted a day, had tons of testimony from corporate representatives including unbelievable testimony by a Sony BMG rep that said that all ripping of music from retail CDs, even for personal use, is theft. Imagine that, getting the music from your own paid for CDs, and you are a thief.
This is really crap cause if i buy a CD with my own money i can do what i like with it without sharing it on the net. If i want to copy it or rip it to my ipod that is my choice.

Quote:
Unfortunately, the shared folder linked to a Kazaa account which directly linked to an IP address which linked directly to a MAC address used by a broadband modem connected to Thomas' computer. Clearly too much evidence for innocence.
This is why we dont you p2p anymore and we have i.p blockers that can stop traces.

4414.10.2007 21:01

Why would anyone want to put a CD into a car that sits in the hot sun, and not have a backup if the CD goes bad after time. Congress has no common sense, and also accepts megabuck donations from the recording industry. Their main priority is to get reelected, all else is a far second.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Oct 2007 @ 21:03

4516.10.2007 22:57
Outboard
Inactive

What everyone doesn't think about ,that the that the music and movie industries are causing their own declien in sales! By alowing download sales!they are destoying themselves.So now thier figures for in $ lost don't show that. they r still pushing the blame on someone else.

4618.10.2007 17:16

24 tracks is the equivalent of 2 albums with 12 tracks each. 2 albums shouldnt cost the outrageous price of 200K.

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