AfterDawn: Tech news

Three strikes law for internet piracy to be proposed in Britain

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 12 Feb 2008 1:58 User comments (54)

Three strikes law for internet piracy to be proposed in Britain It appears like British officials are looking to follow French President Nicolas Sarkozy's lead and consider putting illegal downloaders on warning with a "three strikes" law. The proposed law would result in a warning via email if suspected of illegally downloading movies or music, a temporary suspension of their internet service if a second violation is detected, and termination of their internet service upon a third offense.
Details are expected to be published next week in a Green Paper, which is the first step in the process of changing British law. A draft copy reportedly reads “We will move to legislate to require internet service providers to take action on illegal file-sharing.”

Although no details have been worked out yet on the amount of customer information that would be shared between ISPs, information on alleged offenders is likely to be available to the courts.

Internet providers have been engaged in talks over a voluntary system similar to the one proposed in the Green Paper. However, an agreement has yet to be worked out that satisfies both sides with regard to disputed infringement claims. A spokesman for the Internet Service Providers Association said it remained hopeful that agreement over a voluntary agreement could be reached: “Every right-thinking body knows that self-regulation is much the better option in these areas.”

As with the French plan, this one seems to have one major strategic flaw. The key players in the entertainment industry seem to agree that online content is a major piece of the distribution puzzle, either downloaded or Streaming. The music industry in particular has already seen consumers forcibly change their business model to one increasingly dominated by internet distribution, from downloaded offerings from services like iTunes to internet radio and subscription services.

Although there are certainly some who would choose illegal downloading even if the same product were available for a price they could easily afford, that doesn't mean there aren't potential customers as well. It's hard to see the profit in cutting them off from the online marketplace and alienating them from an entire industry.

With the increasing availability of broadband internet outside the home on both public and private networks, this doesn't seem like a particularly effective tool against piracy. Much like DRM, it can be circumvented by a large percentage of the individuals the entertainment industry would most like to target.

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54 user comments

112.2.2008 2:23

I hope to God this never happens, we're getting more and more Americanised by the day, but taking ideas from Frogs? GTFO.

212.2.2008 2:26

Well us Americans are not too fond of being 'Britain-ized" with cams everywhere either.

Pot to Kettle: You're Black!

312.2.2008 2:34

Internet service providers will not do it because it will hurt their income.

412.2.2008 2:45
varnull
Inactive

There is a problem with these proposals..

You can't punish somebody under UK law without actual PROOF that will stand up in court..an allegation by some media company isn't going to stand up very well when anybody with a small brain can spoof IP details and get a good solicitor to throw that in their faces.. The government are having enough of a rough ride at the moment over sleaze..this is really what they need.., and we do still have the right to freedom of communication, so how are they going to catch anybody?? entrapment??? and the British are not so "lay down and settle" as the Americans.. I hope they are ready to fill every court in the land from here too doomsday with petty "downloaded one song" cases. Everybody has the right to legal defence, and everybody has the right to legal representation.. I hope the government has extremely big pockets and lots of time to bolster the US media companies.. Last time the law got oppressive like this there was a huge riot that trashed central London.. and we won that one!! They seem to have forgotten that the British public WILL explode occasionally.

there is another huge problem.. a lot of UK subscribers have never ever used their isp provided email accounts.. because of fears of spying.. so just how do they propose to warn me? If they send me a printed letter I will just scrub all evidence from my hardware and tell them to see me in court as I will sue them for false accusations and use of illegal electronic surveillance methods.. hahahahaha

Hope they are ready for the kind of ass kicking they haven't had in a very long time.

512.2.2008 4:01

Very true. Sending an email is not proof of receipt. Although this statment protects the large companies, I wouldn't hold our breath now that the British government has shown publicly that they are corrupt/"sponsored" by these firms.

This country is a joke.

612.2.2008 4:04

They should put all there efforts on clapping down on the dodgy dealers at car boot sales not the average Joe who downloads a movie, MP3, now and again for personal use I’ve been to many a car boot sale where you’ve got severally stalls well you cant call them stalls usually a sheet of tarpaulin laid on the grass selling films, Xbox games, audio cd’s, makes you wonder how they get away with it another dodgy dealer they should channel they energy into is dodgy Dave down at the market stall makes you laugh.

712.2.2008 4:15
LeeFields
Inactive

I think you are missing the point in this news article. Firstly, no one will ever see court unless it is an extreme case or the music associations use it as a route to do what has been happening in the states for the last 5 years. This is because the Gov doesn’t like putting laws in play that will cost them money to enforce. This brings up the 'voluntary' side for ISP's which would be seen as the best way forward for the Gov. They don’t have to spend money enforcing it and the mere threat that you could loose your connection is seen as a deterrent. The underlying issue though is enforcement and the data protection act, neither of which bode well for this type of law change. The UK Government is great at introducing new laws to get the headlines, but is extremely inept at enforcing them. I watch in interest, it could take over 2 years before this could reach the statute books.

812.2.2008 4:50
varnull
Inactive

And in the meantime lots and lots of ISP's go bankrupt as we all move to the "darknet" of stolen wifi and direct satellite uplinks etc...

they always forget some of us were phreaking (stealing) international phoneline connections long before the internet existed, and as I have tested recently a lot of those old tricks still work admirably...

Plus nobody seems to be interested in all the old dialup accounts that are still floating around long abandoned by users and fully active.. hehehehe..

I'm not worried in the slightest about this proposed new law, because UK isp's are all trying to force people to use wireless hardware while not ensuring they know how to secure it.. Makes it real easy to steal somebodys 8mb connection and do all your piracy through that while staying totally removed from the scene of the crime.. that's without getting into remote shell trickery and grabbing yourself some of the botnet action with exploits ;)

They should leave well alone, otherwise they will create a far worse situation than they can imagine.. I know how to install the hardware and buy satellite uptime/bandwidth which I can sell cheaply, effectively and totally unmonitored to my neighbours.. Ever wanted to be an unlicensed darknet ISP??

912.2.2008 5:59
nobrainer
Inactive

Lovely, deep packet inspection ahoy, and its all about piracy, paedophiles and terrorists isn't it, the new world order.

its an excuse to spy on the mass populous as it is easily circumvented by ppl that know how and will soon be common knowledge driving downloading further underground and creating thousands more dark nets and such like.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 6:05

1012.2.2008 6:28

Can't people just block their usage information through PeerGuardian? Don't programs like Azureus just block usage stats anyway? Could we get round something like this this way? Too many questions??!?!

1112.2.2008 8:15

Originally posted by area_51:
Internet service providers will not do it because it will hurt their income.
Hurt them how? They'd be banning people who use use up most of the bandwith.

1212.2.2008 10:15

*waits for first strike*

1312.2.2008 10:27
varnull
Inactive

Heres an intereting point..

It is illegal to attempt to crack/break encryption.. even to attempt to do so.. Correct??

So we all encrypt every packet sha-1 or similar.. then where do they stand in any case where the first thing they have done to spy on people is willfully and maliciously break that encryption.. catch 22

I still turn encryption on with p2p even though it's not coming through my connection.. to protect others.

1412.2.2008 12:58
RichieTD
Inactive

If this goes through then whats the point in having the data protection act?

I think it's wrong to punish users that can freely download material. If they want to do something about it then target the uploaders.

I also think that personally downloading content stops the pirates from profiteering to fund bigger criminal activity.

1512.2.2008 13:47
hughjars
Inactive

More lamely 'thought' out, unworkable King Canute BS.

Why not just tear up all our privacy & freedoms & oput us all in prison now, eh?

That'll completely ensure no-one ever deprives big business of all of our money, ever.

All hail the music, movie corps & the CE corps.

1612.2.2008 13:48
hughjars
Inactive

wow, multiple posts, sorry.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 13:49

1712.2.2008 13:49
hughjars
Inactive

wow, multiple posts, sorry.

1812.2.2008 14:00
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by tomkinson:
Can't people just block their usage information through PeerGuardian? Don't programs like Azureus just block usage stats anyway? Could we get round something like this this way? Too many questions??!?!
peerguardian 2 blocks the known ip addresses of anti piracy groups and other organisations so they cannot connect to your pc so they cannot get screen captures of your shared files ect but they constantly use different IP's but any block is better than none. What the government want is ISP's to start deep packet inspections, spying on all traffic.

most bittorrent clients Azureus/uTorrent come with encryption turned on as default, and this is enough to bypass deep packet filtering to the files contained but it is still recognisable as p2p protocol and you could go a step further and use an encrypted tunnel (proxy) like the free tor network and simply direct all bittorrent traffic through the proxy server, or a vpn.

but this is about spying on the general public because they know encryption thwarts their efforts to view any pirated material, every email, every web page visited, every post onj a forum, every message in you msn messenger or any irc will be inspected and gathered using piracy as the scare tactic so there isn't a huge uproar from the general public, just as they use the fear of paedophiles to keep kids off the net and afraid of freedom of speech and the fear of terrorists to justify spying and torture!

ars has a article worth reading as it also points out that in the uk deep packet inspection is illegal because of UK data protection laws but hey its about time we lost our rights to privacy just as has happened in the usa so continues the uk's decent into a fascist police state.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200...come-to-uk.html
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 16:31

1912.2.2008 14:28

This will not work.

what about people using other peoples wireless network.
the owner will now get done.

you say"well make sure you put a password on".

most people dont know how to.

also the companies will lose a lot of money, so they wont be in a rush to cancel there broadband.

also this is a scare tactic , there only targing big pirates users not the person downloading 3 or 4 songs a week.

if they do target everyone , half of britain will have no internet.

2012.2.2008 15:33

I thought the Nazi's were destroyed in 1945? Damn I forgot, the communists are still alive. I have never ever read 1984 by George Orwell, but i have a jist of what the book is about. To me this is Big Brother watching what you do, when you do and how you do. they will want full logs of your internet history in times to come, just to see that you are not visiting any sights that may not be in the pubic interest.

This country is going down the toilet faster than a toilet duck on full flush. The MPAA, RIAA IFPI, BPI and all the rest need to wise the f**k up, revisit there business models and only then, when they are able to supply quality products at a price that may deter all but the most determined downloaders, can they start on this road of bulls**t.

Why the f**k would I want to pay £15 for a DVD? I can wait 3 months and it is then in the bargain bucket. Why not release the damn thing at the bargain bucket price, they would certainly sell a lot more and still turn a profit.

The same applies to music. 90% of the s**t that is in the "charts" is as musical as my arse after an Indian, so again, why would I want to even DL it, never mind pay for it. I still buy the music that I want to listen to, and pay to see live shows (where the bands make most of their money anyway).

Scare tactics do not work with me.

2112.2.2008 16:06

The person above is 100% right.
England going down the drain.

im hoping to move asap.

Having we got bigger problems..
Petrol has risen to over £1 per litre.
food up, raw materials up.
houses up.

china taking up everything.

also in the UK the speed is crap. i pay for 8MB download , i only get abour 1MB not even that.

so downloading one movie takes 8/9 hours , i have to leave it all night just to download one movie.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 16:11

2212.2.2008 16:32

and because it's free (to a point) and fun, companies and government want to take it away from us.... the net is the last real bastion of free speech and free sharing with a hint of attitude and our control freaks I mentioned can't stand that...

2312.2.2008 16:36

Do you close the internet to keep the libraries open?

No, times have moved on the sooner they accept it the easyier this be.

2412.2.2008 17:40

Originally posted by Craftybox:
Do you close the internet to keep the libraries open?

No, times have moved on the sooner they accept it the easyier this be.

qft

i'm in the states, but this sort of thing going on in the uk and france gets me worried. more angry than worried, but makes me think the same thing could happen here at any time.

hopefully both of these plans will fail quickly and we won't have to worry about it over here. i say quickly because the plan stands no chance whatsoever of actually working.

2512.2.2008 18:53
Efreedom
Inactive

A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace

by John Perry Barlow <barlow-at-eff-dot-org>

Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.

We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty itself always speaks. I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us. You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear.

Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not lie within your borders. Do not think that you can build it, as though it were a public construction project. You cannot. It is an act of nature and it grows itself through our collective actions.

You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, nor did you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You do not know our culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions.

You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. Many of these problems don't exist. Where there are real conflicts, where there are wrongs, we will identify them and address them by our means. We are forming our own Social Contract . This governance will arise according to the conditions of our world, not yours. Our world is different.

Cyberspace consists of transactions, relationships, and thought itself, arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not where bodies live.

We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth.

We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity.

Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are all based on matter, and there is no matter here.

Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order by physical coercion. We believe that from ethics, enlightened self-interest, and the commonweal, our governance will emerge . Our identities may be distributed across many of your jurisdictions. The only law that all our constituent cultures would generally recognize is the Golden Rule. We hope we will be able to build our particular solutions on that basis. But we cannot accept the solutions you are attempting to impose.

In the United States, you have today created a law, the Telecommunications Reform Act, which repudiates your own Constitution and insults the dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, DeToqueville, and Brandeis. These dreams must now be born anew in us.

You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are too cowardly to confront yourselves. In our world, all the sentiments and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.

In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy and the United States, you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting guard posts at the frontiers of Cyberspace. These may keep out the contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that will soon be blanketed in bit-bearing media.

Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere, that claim to own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas to be another industrial product, no more noble than pig iron. In our world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no longer requires your factories to accomplish.

These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We must declare our virtual selves immune to your sovereignty, even as we continue to consent to your rule over our bodies. We will spread ourselves across the Planet so that no one can arrest our thoughts.

We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace. May it be more humane and fair than the world your governments have made before.

Davos, Switzerland

February 8, 1996

2612.2.2008 19:01

Originally posted by badkrma:
and because it's free (to a point) and fun, companies and government want to take it away from us.... the net is the last real bastion of free speech and free sharing with a hint of attitude and our control freaks I mentioned can't stand that...
They seem to forget the gray aera of the net making ISP companies what they are today I have not spent almost 5G on broad band since 01 or 98 for nothing!

2712.2.2008 19:55

First there were prohibition laws,yet governments capitalize on sales of Alcohol,Tobacco, and Firearms. Then we fast forward a bit more into history and we are forced to be restrained by seat belts instead of using common sense. Now we have governments actually trying to govern Cyberspace and yet Cyberspace lies within the realms of nowhere. I pay for an ISP and now they wanna tell me I'll get 3 strikes if I'm suspected of doing something illegal. Yet they cant even track down cyberspace pedophiles nor can they help get your life back for you when someone defrauds you and steals your money or identity on the net. I'm fed up with it all....I truly am so fed up. Seems as if the vote of the people has no place in this day and age.Make way to Fabianism for these Socialist bastards.

2812.2.2008 23:54

Then I would just find a homeless guy to put my bill in his name,LOL

2913.2.2008 11:06
varnull
Inactive

So I take it fgrom the silence of the other UK members here that you think your privacy is less important that some hugely rich businesses continuing to make profit and using tyranny to achieve it?

Just one look at anywhere else the British public are being allowed a say on this matter shows that this is the "one step too far", The corner we will fight from because we have been well and truly backed into it.

They cannot be allowed to take away our remaining privacy rights on the say so of some high paid lobbyists.. sheesh.. We know these fat cat career politicians are well and truly at the trough, now we see how deep.

Next they will be getting our children to report us for "anti government mutterings".. and where will that end?

3013.2.2008 22:59

If this goes global, I predict by 2012 we'll see everyone from 10 yr olds to 80yr olds being experts in everything Tor, Darknet, P2P, PGP, remailers, chained proxies, along with their apps (Privoxy, Sockscap, TOR, etc).

I have even heard that the NSA can ascertain passwords (w/o keyloggers) merely by the sound of one's keystrokes.

3115.2.2008 4:41
varnull
Inactive

Quote:
I have even heard that the NSA can ascertain passwords (w/o keyloggers) merely by the sound of one's keystrokes.
They don't need to go that far.. Just make a couple of false allegations and they can force you to divulge that information http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/14/2129214

3215.2.2008 5:15
Efreedom
Inactive

Our state collects more data than the Stasi ever did. We need to fight back

To trust in the good intentions of our rulers is to put liberty at risk. I'd go to jail rather than accept this kind of ID card

* Timothy Garton Ash
* The Guardian,
* Thursday January 31 2008


This article appeared in the Guardian on Thursday January 31 2008 on p31 of the Comment & debate section. It was last updated at 15:16 on February 09 2008.

This has got to stop. Britain's snooper state is getting completely out of hand. We are sleepwalking into a surveillance society, and we must wake up. When the Stasi started spying on me, as I moved around East Germany 30 years ago, I travelled on the assumption that I was coming from one of the freest countries in the world to one of the least free. I don't think I was wrong then, but I would certainly be wrong now. Today, the people of East Germany are much less spied upon than the people of Britain. The human rights group Privacy International rates Britain as an "endemic surveillance society", along with China and Russia, whereas Germany scores much better.

An official report by Britain's interception of communications commissioner has just revealed that nearly 800 public bodies are between them making an average of nearly 1,000 requests a day for "communications data", including actual phone taps, mobile phone records, email or web search histories, not to mention old-fashioned snail mail. The Home Office website notes that all communication service providers "may be served with a notice by the secretary of state requiring them to maintain a permanent intercept capability. In practice, agreement is always reached by consultation and negotiation." How reassuring.

The fantastic advance of information and communications technology gives the state - and private companies as well - technical possibilities of which the Stasi could only dream. Most of your life is now mapped electronically, minute by minute, centimetre by centimetre, through your mobile phone calls, your emails, your web searches, your credit card purchases, your involuntary appearances on CCTV, and so on. Had the East German secret police had these snooping super-tools, my Stasi file would have measured at least 3,000 pages, not a mere 325.

We therefore need to strengthen the protection of data, privacy and civil rights simply to remain as free as we were before. As technology lifts the sea level of information flow, we have to build up the dykes. To a limited extent, this has been happening; some legal data protection safeguards have been improved. Our stalwart information commissioner, Richard Thomas, has fought a valiant battle to protect what the Germans call, with portentous profundity, the right to informational self-determination. A valiant battle, but a losing one - as the commissioner himself acknowledges. The warning that we are "sleepwalking into a surveillance society" comes from him.

For even as he tries to strengthen the dykes, more powerful arms of government are busy tearing them down: in the name of fighting terrorism, crime, fraud, child molestation, drugs, religious extremism, racial abuse, tax evasion, speeding, illegal parking, fly-tipping, leaving too many garbage bags outside your home, and any other "risk" that any of those nearly 800 public (busy)bodies feels called upon to "protect" us from. Well, thank you, nanny - but kindly eff off to East Germany. I'd rather stay a bit more free, even if means being a bit less safe.

Yes, I recognise that the threat from homegrown suicide bombers - like those who struck London on July 7 2005, and extremists who have been picked up since, including the recently convicted would-be beheader of a British soldier - is particularly difficult to detect. I accept that it requires some extra surveillance and prevention powers. The balance between security and liberty needs to be recalibrated. But in the last decade the British government has erred too far on the side of what is alleged to be increased security.

An over-mighty executive, authoritarian busybody instincts at all levels of government, a political culture of "commonsense" bureaucratic judgments, rather than codified rights protected by supreme courts and, until recently, a gung-ho press forever calling for "something to be done": this fateful combination has made Britain a dark outrider among liberal democracies.

The birthplace of laissez-faire liberalism has morphed into the database state. We have more CCTV cameras than anyone. We have the largest DNA database anywhere. Plans are far advanced to centralise all our medical records and introduce the most elaborate biometric ID cards in the world. All this from a government which, having collected so much data on us, goes around losing it like a late-night drunk spreading the contents of his pockets down the street. Twenty-five million people's details mislaid by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs; at least 100,000 more on an awol Royal Navy laptop; and so it goes on.

Meanwhile, the government has just laid before parliament its latest counter-terrorism bill. Besides the notorious proposal to increase the period of detention without charge to 42 days, this includes provisions that, as the attached official notes explain, allow anyone to give information to the intelligence services "regardless of any duty to keep the information private or of any other restriction" (other than those mentioned in a pair of elastic subclauses). Such information can then be shared or disclosed by that service more or less at will.

This will not do; and even the staunchest supporters of the smack of firm government are beginning to say as much. The Daily Mail, that prince of firm-smackers, yesterday ran a leading article which concluded that "Under this government - of whom the Stasi would have been proud - the balance between state power and individual liberty has been outrageously skewed. It must be restored." This is something on which press and politicians of left and right are beginning to agree.

Of course that flourish about the Stasi is hyperbole. As someone who actually lived under the Stasi, I know we're nowhere near that. But the amount of information collected and shared - not to mention lost - by the British government far exceeds the Stasi's modest 160km of paper files. The potential for it to be abused, in the wrong hands, is simply enormous. Liberty is not preserved simply by putting our trust in the good intentions of our rulers, civil servants and spooks. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

My sense is that the tide is just beginning to turn in British public, published and parliamentary opinion. I hope the Liberal Democrats, Conservatives, Labour backbenchers and the House of Lords will between them give the new bill the roasting it deserves. Some of our watchdog commissioners and more independent-minded judges are already sounding the alarm. If the government were still to be so foolish as to try to introduce the new ID cards before the next election, it could be to Gordon Brown what the poll tax was to Margaret Thatcher. Comprehensive, compulsory ID cards would directly impinge on every single citizen; this is just the kind of thing the British like to get bloody-minded about.

The Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has said he would go to jail rather than accept an ID card of this intrusive kind. So would I. And so, I believe, would many thousands of our fellow-citizens. (There's a good website called NO2ID where you can join the fray.) Which is why, I suspect, the government won't be so foolish. But we need to draw the line well before ID cards. There are liberties that we have already given away, while sleeping, and we must claim them back.

3315.2.2008 19:53

It's called the New World Order folks... It's been an active thing for centuries now... You guys think all of this is new? Would any of you possibly believe that the attacks on the Twin Towers on 9/11 was NOT, in fact, "terrorists," but quite possibly am American government launched attack to force this country into a war we didn't want, or need? Saddam Hussein a threat? Yeah, okay he murdered millions of people. A small squad of men coulda taken him out... ANYWAY, my point is this: Fascism is alive and well in the U.S. and has been for centuries. Take a look at our "symbolism..." The axe wrapped in bundles of rods that accompanies our Eagles and flags? Fascist symbol. And of course the most obvious pyramid with the floating eye on the back of OUR AMERICAN DOLLAR?!? A symbol for the illuminati... Anyone who still believes planes brought down the twin towers ought to check footage of controlled demolition of buildings with how the explosions at 9/11 looked. INSIDE JOB, people... It's SO obvious...

Now, I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I DO know there are sinister happenings in the governments of countries these days. What's happening in Great Britain and the U.S. AREN'T dissimilar... Facts are being distorted and names are being invented... It's all downhill from here.

And yet, there's two great movies called "The Secret" and "What The Bleep Do We Know" that will teach you WHO truly has the REAL power in the world... It's YOU... The people reading this... David Icke has a great 6 hour series on what's really going on, I suggest you all search him out and take notes... BTW: He's a U.K. citizen...

3415.2.2008 20:19

Originally posted by Gorgoroth:
It's called the New World Order folks... It's been an active thing for centuries now... You guys think all of this is new? Would any of you possibly believe that the attacks on the Twin Towers on 9/11 was NOT, in fact, "terrorists," but quite possibly am American government launched attack to force this country into a war we didn't want, or need? Saddam Hussein a threat? Yeah, okay he murdered millions of people. A small squad of men coulda taken him out... ANYWAY, my point is this: Fascism is alive and well in the U.S. and has been for centuries. Take a look at our "symbolism..." The axe wrapped in bundles of rods that accompanies our Eagles and flags? Fascist symbol. And of course the most obvious pyramid with the floating eye on the back of OUR AMERICAN DOLLAR?!? A symbol for the illuminati... Anyone who still believes planes brought down the twin towers ought to check footage of controlled demolition of buildings with how the explosions at 9/11 looked. INSIDE JOB, people... It's SO obvious...

Now, I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I DO know there are sinister happenings in the governments of countries these days. What's happening in Great Britain and the U.S. AREN'T dissimilar... Facts are being distorted and names are being invented... It's all downhill from here.

And yet, there's two great movies called "The Secret" and "What The Bleep Do We Know" that will teach you WHO truly has the REAL power in the world... It's YOU... The people reading this... David Icke has a great 6 hour series on what's really going on, I suggest you all search him out and take notes... BTW: He's a U.K. citizen...
While in my own opinion I don't believe in parts of the conspiracy theories that you've stated....I do believe all that has been going on in these controlled societies that tout freedom is a conspiracy and we the people are letting it happen. These are methods to control society by means of fear and keep us in our so called place. But I thought the place of the hardworking voter was above the government when in fact we are way below. Just like the institution of "martial law". If anything like another civil war were to break out in these controlled societies for example the US and the UK, the last thing to be enforced is martial law. I won't get into it because it opens another can of worms. All together another mechanism of fear and intimidation to ones own people. Almost as if saying convert to our ways or die. In return our people much like religion, convert to their beliefs for their own safety, selfishness, and ignorance. We are being served Communism in the form of freedom and just accepting it.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 20:23

3515.2.2008 22:23

I dont know how things are over seas, but here in the states, everybody and thier mother is downloading something, I think they would have to lock up half the country, here in the states we do put up with a lot of shit from law and poloticians, but after so much we start to throw the shit back thier way, they better be carefull.

3616.2.2008 8:15
varnull
Inactive

And then they will use laws like this to silence you..

I would like to see them try.. http://www.computerworld.com/action/arti...ticleId=9063058

3716.2.2008 8:17

Originally posted by varnull:
Quote:
most lens units last about 4-5 years anyway so disc consoles have a 5-8 year life span.
tell that to most 360 owners who are starting to see laser failures in droves.. They defo have a 12-18 month lifespan.

I am talking about disc based consoles in general the 360 is unique as in they just wont fix it.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 8:24

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

3816.2.2008 8:36
varnull
Inactive

I think it's brilliant marketing.. make a device that costs a fair amount of money.. but that the biggest investment involved is the media (games) them design it to break after a certain short period so people look at their huge investment in expensive disks which after a year are lucky to hold 20% of their initial purchase value.. and you pretty much guarantee another sale.

It's why they dropped the xbox almost immediately.. to force people to buy a 360.. even if they really didn't want one.

3916.2.2008 8:49

Originally posted by varnull:
I think it's brilliant marketing.. make a device that costs a fair amount of money.. but that the biggest investment involved is the media (games) them design it to break after a certain short period so people look at their huge investment in expensive disks which after a year are lucky to hold 20% of their initial purchase value.. and you pretty much guarantee another sale.

It's why they dropped the xbox almost immediately.. to force people to buy a 360.. even if they really didn't want one.
pretty much it would only cost them 4-6B over the life span of the 360(to 11-12) to make the damn thing work as it should but they would rather not alert the public to the isue and keep plug all the holes it develops...

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

4016.2.2008 9:45
varnull
Inactive

Anyway.. that's cynical marketing behaviour by a global giant.. screw the consumer.. we want PROFIT for shareholders above all else.

Now then now then.. here is a good link.. Last years global bad guys awards http://www.privacyinternational.org/arti...7]=x-347-553112

where do you stand now?

http://www.privacyinternational.org/arti...5D=x-347-559597

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 9:52

4116.2.2008 12:33

what about newsgroups you can't find them on the internet but their are their thou

4216.2.2008 13:04
varnull
Inactive

Newsgroups.. This law will take away the last right to privacy..

currently they have to show a suspicion at least of criminal behaviour before they can intercept and investigate every packet of data in and out of your connection..
This proposal makes it seemingly insignificant for the state to look at every email/message on a bbs/newsgroup listing looked at/file up or downloaded/website visited.. everything.. as a matter of routine.

If this gets through on the lie of preventing piracy (don't make me f****ng laugh) I for one will drop off the open internet and only exist through stolen wifi and anonymous public access points.. they may still spy on me, but they won't have a f****ng clue who I am.

Come the darknet they will regret all the spying.. because we will start to use the e-bomb and other weapons against them..

Organized piracy for profit will be the tip of the iceberg. It will be easier to buy stolen content from us than it will be to go into a shop and get it... and a damn sight cheaper. It's easy to pirate films and sell them.. even easier for music, and horrid expensive software like adobe and M$ products.. they are sitting ducks..

As 1 persons personal information is worth between £50 and £500 to the identity thieves how long do any western governments think they will be able to keep the disenfranchised and angry IT professionals out of their increasingly huge databases.. Steal from us and spy on us and we will steal from you and spy on you. The only thing keeping people reasonably straight at the moment is a sense of conscience and fair play.. If I like a film I at least consider buying it from a bargain bucket 6-12 months after release.. treat me like a criminal before the fact and I may as well be one, but secretively and furtively using stolen connections and hiding in the darknet of anonymity where I will not only steal, but I will publicly steal data on them and publish it where they can't get it taken down..

Now who is for the total declared pay of an MP.. and his "private" subsidies via donation.. and the businesses he works for as a "consultant,,undeclared on the side.. and who he sends emails to, and the content of those emails, and who he calls on his mobile..and what is said, and who calls him, and what they say, and the websites he visits, and every picture he looks at, and the contents of his diary.. and while we are at it.. the contents of his childrens emails, and their pictures and school records and where they go to in an evening, and what they like to eat, listen to, download, play.. want me to go on??

This is the kind of invasion of privacy I am on about.. and they want to make it law while protecting themselves from it.

Orwell had a vision of the future.. A boot stamping on a human face.. This is the time to kick them all out, otherwise lie down and wait for the stomping to begin..... Once they have total power and total knowledge of everything we do and say we will never get the opportunity to speak out again.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.. I'm sure people elected Hitler because he seemed like a great choice for a better future.

Only the future will tell.. Write to your MP and tell them why this is unacceptable.. See if they bother to reply to you.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 13:13

4316.2.2008 15:25

My previous ISP sent me an e-mail about two years ago, accusing me of illegal downloading, threatening me with termination of service, which I considered, at the time, was a damn cheek. My thoughts then (as now) is that they had no right to snoop on my traffic and arbitrarily impose a "punishment". Any suspicion of illegality should be handled by the legal system, NOT some jumped-up ISP who seemed to set themselves up as some sort of vigilante. I am no longer with them, at my choice.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 15:27

4416.2.2008 15:58

big brother is here

4517.2.2008 10:54

I'm not sure its even possible...

Its like asking the post office to open every mail item sent though them, record its contents and then open up every other mail sent back and forth and piecing them together to determine if the mail is about illegal activity. Then you have the matter of encryption as well...

I don't really think its enforceable.

4617.2.2008 11:59

Quote:
ktulu14
Damn I forgot, the communists are still alive. I have never ever read 1984 by George Orwell, but i have a jist of what the
Get your facts straight mate Its called capitalism its got nuffin to do wiv communists and nether had Orwell's 1984
your thinking of his Animal Farm!
By the by Orwell ended up as an informer for MI5!

4718.2.2008 10:16


greeting comrades as it appears that stalin did not die he moved to the u.k. and his now a member of the labour party,this crowd have just about ended our civil liberties, maybe they could stop the television license that is given to the bbc to put out crap shows so that we can afford to buy the movie

4818.2.2008 15:21
nobrainer
Inactive

This is the sort of web site the UK gov will start banning soon!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7250916.stm

Quote:

Whistle-blower site taken offline

The case was brought by lawyers working for a Swiss bank
A controversial website that allows whistle-blowers to anonymously post government and corporate documents has been taken offline in the US.

but i suppose when the UK gov want to ban protests across the country you have to worry a little! http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/


usa style marshal law and 0 tolerance for freedom of speech, arriving soon to all uk residents. No more freedom of speech and isp's forced to inspect packets and remove any "unwanted" users!

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/01/389354.html
Quote:
Anti-SOCPA campaigners who have studied the proposal are concerned that, rather than leading to a repeal of the relevant clauses of the act, the consultation could lead to an extension of the powers, meaning that any demonstration anywhere in the country would be required to seek police authorisation in advance.
and what will they do to you web hosters, well simply confiscate all servers and never tell you why!

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/11/300886.html

Quote:
On October 7, two harddrives were taken out of indymedia servers, named Ahimsa I and Ahimsa II, by forces yet unknown. The servers were managed by the ISP Rackspace in London. 20 indymedia websites, mainly in Europe, where affected. Indymedia Belgrade is still in exile at imc croatia. The other sites are up and running, some slower than usual. Five days after they disappeared, the harddrives were returned, again with no hint as to where they had been.

This doesn't mean the matter is closed. As Mark Thomas said in the New Statesman: This "was the equivalent of the FBI storming the Guardian's offices and demanding that the paper hand over all its computers, including those that hold details of its writers and photographers." Jeremy Dear, General Secretary of the British NUJ, put it similarly: "To take away a server is like taking away a broadcaster's transmitter. It is simply incredible that American security agents can just walk into a London office and remove equipment."



This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Feb 2008 @ 15:42

4918.2.2008 21:22

Originally posted by windsong:
Well us Americans are not too fond of being 'Britain-ized" with cams everywhere either.

Pot to Kettle: You're Black!
CCTV was not a british idea. do your research, doooooooood.

5020.2.2008 11:26

The only way to stop piracy is an entertainment tax In place of the TV license.
There are people copying films off Sky. They record top of the pops off radio. I live in a valley town South Wales and before the internet downloads there was a human network selling CDs with all the top software programs for £10 each.
These CDs could be found all over the UK. they had names such as Ambassador, Cappuccino, Utils and Willywarez. Piracy will go this way again, but will include music and films. Be like AMWAY form a human network. In a democratic country if the majority want to copy then it should count as the peoples decision. Make the Government have a public vote on it. An other thing, why pay TV license to be given aray in quiz shows we all want a share so take it by recording films.

5127.2.2008 13:59
RichieTD
Inactive

You think you in the US are less likely of this happening in the States? Think again as to US isp's are already looking into it and also you have less data protection laws than the UK.

Quote:
Yet that is one of the most challenging aspects of the issue, particularly in the EU, where data-privacy laws are tougher than in the U.S. and many other parts of the world. As the BBC reported today, the ISPs' trade group believes it's illegal to inspect the data traffic passing through the Net.

In the U.S., two of the biggest broadband suppliers have taken opposing positions on the issue. AT&T executives have said they're working with content owners on ways to detect and stop piracy, but they've also said they don't want to inspect each packet or monitor every customer. Instead, AT&T engineers have talked about trying to spot traffic patterns that suggest someone is downloading illegally, then taking a closer look at that person's data streams. A top Verizon executive, on the other hand, has said his company isn't interested in monitoring its network for infringements.
http://opinion.latimes.com/bitplayer/2008/02/uk-isps-as-pira.html

527.4.2008 22:47

Proudon wrote over 200 years ago
"all men are free and yet everywhere in chains." yes that sounds like the UK.Terrorism, acts of war etc are endemic to modern society.And yet are essential at maintaining control,that hide behide the usual excuse of national security.All political ideologies require social control as a means of perpetuating their existance and this has been the same since man evolved.It is naive to expect countries such as the UK and USA not to protect their interests. And that is essentially, capitol.I do not believe conspiracies such as the state cteating events in order to introduce repressive legistlation exist or are indeed necessary.The state is just too sophisticated for that.Instead all it requires is the continued ignorance of the its inhabitants and a reliance on ethno centicity.I Have never encounter two states such as the USA and UK that are so incredibibly ethno centric as was the former soviet block.
Freedom is not a concrete absolute concept its totally relative.
In the UK the popular term for the enlightened,the altruistic is "do gooder." Its a term of abuse.In a taxi recently this atavist was getting rather upset at "do gooders" and i said,"i take it then that you prefer do badders."The rest of the journey was made in total silence from all parties.
In the 1930s Hitler used the same tactics to do what none of us will ever forget.But Hitler was elected at the ballot box in election.You see the ballot box, is not a barometer of feedom it just just perpetuates the myth of the existance of freedom.
Please excuse my spelling.My health is not very good.

538.4.2008 7:06

Quote:
“Every right-thinking body knows that self-regulation is much the better option in these areas.”
This is only the begining of this legislation and we all know that this self regulayion is the best way to go. If it passes it will be the end of free speech and freedom of information whereas the government will start a comunistict method of control for its country. I hope the proposed legislation does not pass.

5417.4.2008 16:18
Zigmaster
Inactive

I think this stinks quite a bit, and I don't know how exactly they are going to enforce it. I mean will it just be for MP3 files, what about all the copied versions of Windows, and every single top program on the market. I honestly don't believe that the industry is suffering that much to the extent it needs to spend a shit load of money to chase up trails of music all over the internet. I'm now whizz kid but surely we could get around this very easily buy using new technology... Use the connection we use now for everything else except music sharing, then when we want to share something like an album with someone, just change to a wireless broad band connection from say "3" or Vodaphone and I think T-Mobile is now doing it... Where there is a will, there is a way.

Ziggy

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