AfterDawn: Tech news

Game over HD DVD

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 15 Feb 2008 13:42 User comments (87)

Game over HD DVD It seems that over the course of the last month, HD DVD has been taking loss after loss, but it seems the giant retailer Wal-Mart has finally put the final nail in the coffin.
The company announced this morning that it has chosen sides in the next-gen format war and that by June it will only be stocking Blu-ray Disc players, completely dropping HD DVD in the process.

Susan Chronister, of Wal-Mart's video division wrote in her blog earlier this morning that the company made its decision following Best Buy's and Netflix's recent decision to snuff HD DVD.

"By June, Wal-Mart will only be carrying Blu-ray movies and hardware machines and, of course, standard-def movies, DVD players, and up-convert players," Chronister said. She then added, "if you bought the HD DVD player like me, I'd retire it to the bedroom, kid's playroom, or give it to your parents to play their John Wayne standard-def movies, and make space for a (Blu-Ray Disc) player."

That may be a good decision as well considering that HD DVD players are, on average, excellent up converting players for Standard Definition movies and are still much, much cheaper than its counterpart Blu-ray players.

As much as this latest blow hurts consumer choice, I hate to admit that this is the end for HD DVD. Lets see if Blu-ray fairs any better against digital downloads.


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87 user comments

115.2.2008 13:59
hughjars
Inactive

All this is is part of a series of events that was supposed to happen yesterday.

There was supposed to be a St Valentines day massacre of HD DVD.

Unfortunately for Sony & the BDA Universal & paramount refused to play ball.

But we have been left with 3 supporting tales coming out anyways.
The Hollywood Reporter story, the Toshiba Blu-ray player story & this post-dated pledge from Walmart
(which was as far as they were prepared to go).

June is a long way off and a lot of things can happen in a week never mind months - especially with HDM sales currently so low.

The Blu side have pulled every trick in the book and yet HD DVD is still standing, still there and still selling.

215.2.2008 14:11

Wow, some people just can't let it go already....seriously. HD-DVD is DONE, there will not be a "come back" if you think so you are absolutely fooling yourself for no sane reason. It's almost sad when the writing is on the wall and it is BLATANTLY obvious to others but people just won't admit it.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 14:17

315.2.2008 14:15

Quote:
It's is almost sad when the writing is on the wall and it is BLATANTLY obvious to others but people just won't admit it.

Isn't that the websters unabridged definition of a "fanboy" or is it just me?

Quote:
"By June, Wal-Mart will only be carrying Blu-ray movies and hardware machines and, of course, standard-def movies, DVD players, and up-convert players,"
Blowout sale!

415.2.2008 14:17
hm577
Inactive

Whatever.............BOTH ARE HERE TO STAY BOYS AND GIRLS. Dual-format players will be standard.

515.2.2008 14:18

Originally posted by hm577:
Whatever.............BOTH ARE HERE TO STAY BOYS AND GIRLS. Dual-format players will be standard.
Amazing, simply amazing.....

615.2.2008 14:20

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by hm577:
Whatever.............BOTH ARE HERE TO STAY BOYS AND GIRLS. Dual-format players will be standard.
Amazing, simply amazing.....
Lol. I think you're point was demonstrated Oner.


715.2.2008 14:24

you bet its a fanboy thing but time can only tell

eh... with a single format we can look forward to "not " having to buy things twice =) (at the least)

815.2.2008 14:31

Originally posted by 7thsinger:
Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by hm577:
Whatever.............BOTH ARE HERE TO STAY BOYS AND GIRLS. Dual-format players will be standard.
Amazing, simply amazing.....
Lol. I think you're point was demonstrated Oner.
Exactly.

915.2.2008 14:37

Can we get back on topic, thank you...

1015.2.2008 14:40

Originally posted by Oner:
Wow, some people just can't let it go already....seriously.
4 reasons
1st He been paid off to support HD-DVD with any means.
2nd he is from those people they get fanatic with everything that they buy, and that needs doctor.
3rd He was keeping money for 100 years to buy HD-DVD player and he cant believe that will swallow it.He must even have nightmares.
4th He must be at the most 12years old and an x-box "taliban" that is something like reason 2 but he doesn't need a doctor cause is just a kid.

Originally posted by Hughjars:

Unfortunately for Sony & the BDA Universal & paramount refused to play ball.

But we have been left with 3 supporting tales coming out anyways.

Yea ... Spiderman,Superman and Batman that will join forces and kick that evil sonys a$$ and HD-DVD/Toshiba will rise once again and conquer the world!

You fav movie must be Matrix cause you live in an alternative reality.

1115.2.2008 14:43

Flame a format if you want. Stop flaming each other, grow up!

1215.2.2008 14:45

This is good news. I think the majority of shopers for High Def type product is done at Best Buy and Wal-Mart. When People see a unified backing on HiDef Media, they will buy into it more. I'm glad to see it is over. And, Thank you Oner for making statements.

1315.2.2008 14:47

Ya know back in november of 07 for ONE day only wal-mart ran the toshiba hd-dvd's for 99.95...and they NEVER ran that sale again...this actually took place BEFORE black sunday and you would THINK surely they would have ran this price yet again..yet.......they didn't , I wonder why??? I was upset I missed the sale at first now I think my lucky stars I did..BUT you know this don't feel like coincidence to me............I think the powers that be at toshiba or wal-mart new what was about to transpire in the coming months and they did that... ALSO peculiar was how the xbox 360 HD player I remember went way down and I went to buy 1 and they had took it back up to 179... I really dont give a rats behind who wins the format war I just know that neither me or any other average US citizen is gonna pay 400 dollars for a friggan player.......that was the WHOLE HDDVD appeal anyway.. I am really baffled HDDVD lost because they had so MANY great things going for them..such as it was known early on its a hell of alot cheaper to make HD over Blu...... so blu ray holds a few more gigs..big f'n deal....... so blu ray can do 1080 (P vs I) another big f'n deal as no satelite,cable or terrestrial digital broadcast offers 1080 progressive so the 1080 (progressive) is little more then sony's wet dream

this move is gonna hurt toshiba and consumers will lose all faith in them............... and if sony dont get blu ray players in wal-mart for 99.95 consumers are gonna lose faith in them as well......................

1415.2.2008 14:49

HD-DVD can "survive" in this market on the cost advantage.

I can use an HD-DVD player to upconvert the library of standard def DVD's and rip the new Blu-Ray movie releases to HD-DVD discs.

1515.2.2008 14:52
goodswipe
Inactive

Originally posted by joeclam:
HD-DVD can "survive" in this market on the cost advantage.

I can use an HD-DVD player to upconvert the library of standard def DVD's and rip the new Blu-Ray movie releases to HD-DVD discs.
So true...

1615.2.2008 14:52

It's sad to hear HD-DVD is falling by the wayside to the better marketed Blue-Ray format.

I don't think either format is really going to be a "winner" anytime soon. I feel the average consumer (not the hardcare videophiles) is quite happy with the picture quality and sound of the standard-def DVD's.

DVD only began to outsell VHS in December of 2003. It's too soon to tell consumers that their DVD library has to be tossed out in favour of the the new HD format which looks and sounds a little better but doesn't really offer much more.

DVD was a huge improvement from VHS, offering so much more that it made sense for people to make the switch. The improvements are simply not dramatic enough to give people a compelling reason to make a switch to HD so quickly.

I can also see the durability of these Blue-Ray discs being a concern as well. The average person who rents a disc will probably encounter many problems from mishandled rental discs.

Coupled with the expensive price, immaturity of the technology (remember those early DVD machines that don't play recordable DVDs?), easy and fast downloading on the horizon, and the American economy on the brink of recession, I think Blue-Ray might be what S-VHS was to VHS.

The only way I can see for Toshiba to keep floating the HD-DVD format is to release the standard-def DVD as a doubled-sided disc with HD on the flip side as a bonus.

That way consumers aren't "paying" for the HD version and therefore may be enticed enough to purchase the HD-DVD player.

1715.2.2008 14:53

hey thats the spirit!! I was able to get YEARS of life added to the sega dreamcast by doing lil self made hacks and things

1815.2.2008 14:53

Why buy HD-DVD player. Just buy cheep upconverter

1915.2.2008 14:54
hm577
Inactive

Originally posted by d0nd:
you bet its a fanboy thing but time can only tell

eh... with a single format we can look forward to "not " having to buy things twice =) (at the least)


Ummm............if you can state ONE MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to having both formats around with dual format players being the standard then I will stand corrected. But you can't .............no one can. What are you, foreign?? "Not having to buy things twice." ??? That's a comment that can be expected from one whom is uninformed. Can you say "buy a movie like Transformers that's only available on HD-DVD and then buy a movie that's only available on Blu-ray like Pirates and then buy EITHER format when available on both". This goes for you too moderator and your comment......"Amazing, simply amazing that you can't see the light of day in front of you." Counter me with an intelligible and EXPLAINED disagreement and then just MAYBE you might actually convince ONE PERSON IN YOUR LIFE ON THIS PLANET to see your side.


Counter with your 'holier than thou' smirk remarks and it'll be clear that you have no basis for your claims or at the very least, nothing that counters my theory.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 14:59

2015.2.2008 14:58
goodswipe
Inactive

Originally posted by glasssd:
Why buy HD-DVD player. Just buy cheep upconverter


The Toshiba HD-A3 is one of the best up converters on the market and cheaper then a lot of the nice up converters out there.



Originally posted by hm577:

Ummm............if you can state ONE MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to having both formats around with dual format players being the standard then I will stand corrected. But you can't .............no one can. What are you, foreign?? "Not having to buy things twice." ??? That's a comment that can be expected from one whom is uninformed. Can you say "buy a movie like Transformers that's only available on HD-DVD and then buy a movie that's only available on Blu-ray like Pirates and then buy EITHER format when available on both". This goes for you too moderator and your comment......"Amazing, simply amazing that you can't see the light of day in front of you." Counter me with an intelligible and EXPLAINED disagreement and then just MAYBE you might actually convince ONE PERSON IN YOUR LIFE ON THIS PLANET to see your side.

LOL, is that you b4nned4life?? Sorry man but, you can't hide. I know that dual format talk when I see it.

2115.2.2008 15:08

If the HD-DVD player is being used as an Upconverter, That does not make HD-DVD survive.

2215.2.2008 15:11

GIVE IT UP! HD-DVD, while you still can, take the remainder of your dignity and go home. Wal-Mart Has Droppped it, so give it up!

2315.2.2008 15:12
goodswipe
Inactive

Originally posted by glasssd:
If the HD-DVD player is being used as an Upconverter, That does not make HD-DVD survive.
/sigh...

2415.2.2008 15:13

Originally posted by hm577:
Whatever.............BOTH ARE HERE TO STAY BOYS AND GIRLS. Dual-format players will be standard.
JUST LET IT(HD DVD) GO MAN.!! READ THE NEWS!! STAY UP TO DATE!
GO BLU (GIANTS BABY)HAHA

2515.2.2008 15:18
FormatDuo
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by glasssd:
Why buy HD-DVD player. Just buy cheep upconverter


The Toshiba HD-A3 is one of the best up converters on the market and cheaper then a lot of the nice up converters out there.



Originally posted by hm577:

Ummm............if you can state ONE MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to having both formats around with dual format players being the standard then I will stand corrected. But you can't .............no one can. What are you, foreign?? "Not having to buy things twice." ??? That's a comment that can be expected from one whom is uninformed. Can you say "buy a movie like Transformers that's only available on HD-DVD and then buy a movie that's only available on Blu-ray like Pirates and then buy EITHER format when available on both". This goes for you too moderator and your comment......"Amazing, simply amazing that you can't see the light of day in front of you." Counter me with an intelligible and EXPLAINED disagreement and then just MAYBE you might actually convince ONE PERSON IN YOUR LIFE ON THIS PLANET to see your side.

LOL, is that you b4nned4life?? Sorry man but, you can't hide. I know that dual format talk when I see it.

I don't think that was him............he was a bigger A**hole wasn't he (and all his aliases).

I gotta agree with him though........Dual format players is the splendid way to go.

2615.2.2008 15:22
goodswipe
Inactive

lol...man you're like a secret agent or somethan.

2715.2.2008 15:31
FormatDuo
Inactive

Originally posted by goodswipe:
lol...man you're like a secret agent or somethan.


Who is?


Hey, why'd they ban Hm577...........he seemed alright. I mean he right on about that "dual format being the way" stuff dont'cha think???

2815.2.2008 15:34
goodswipe
Inactive

They probably banned you because like me, I knew that was you. You can tell by your wording and ".......DUAL FORMAT". Hey, at least this time you didn't pick up a permanent ban. ;)

Anyways, gone off topic enough. See you around!

2915.2.2008 15:55

It's interesting that DVDBack23 named this news thread "Game Over HD DVD."

It seems some will never accept it until there's an official capitulation from Toshiba.

The question then remains - will Toshiba announce first? or will "Paraversal"?

I still think the studios won't make a move until Toshiba does and I don't see any BD title announcements from Paraversal until Q2 or even Q3.

When Toshiba does make the final announcement I also think they will reveal one or more BD capable players. I'm leaning more toward BluRay standalones especially if they want market penetration in Japan. However, I won't be surprised if they had plans for a dual-format player for the US/EU market.

We just have to wait and see.

3015.2.2008 16:14
camaro17
Inactive

uh?........they wouldnt announce any titles if they arent dual format or BD exclusive. just to let you know.

Peace

3115.2.2008 16:17
camaro17
Inactive

Originally posted by camaro17:
uh?........they wouldnt announce any titles (BD) if they arent dual format or BD exclusive. just to let you know.

Peace

3215.2.2008 16:20

If its any consolidation I owned a laserdisc player and I believe it has now outlived HD-DVD in lifespan..............WOW

3315.2.2008 16:23
hughjars
Inactive

Of course as much as the PS3 fanclub can't bear to admit it, it's just as delusional and 'fanboy-ish' to claim Blu-ray has won a thing at this point when it doesn't even hold 1% of the annual retail movie disc sales.

DVD remains the winner by a country mile.

Maybe with sales of less than 1% BD should just stop the delusion and give up too, huh?

......and at the prices they are expecting for Blu-ray players (particularly when there isn't even a proper range of specs/prices available on the supposedly final 'profile 2.0' yet, shhhh no-one mention profile 3.0 or the chances of more profiles) it's not exactly likely that Blu-ray is going anywhere anytime soon.

3415.2.2008 16:36

Originally posted by hughjars:
Of course as much as the PS3 fanclub can't bear to admit it, it's just as delusional and 'fanboy-ish' to claim Blu-ray has won a thing at this point when it doesn't even hold 1% of the annual retail movie disc sales.

DVD remains the winner by a country mile.

Maybe with sales of less than 1% BD should just stop the delusion and give up too, huh
The DVD vs HDM argument really cannot apply at this point.

You simply cannot compare a well-established 10+ year-old format with a <2 year old fledgling format that's just trying to take its first baby steps.

You have to compare DVD at age 2 and look at BluRay at age 2. You have to compare both sides at similar stages of development - not when one has already been established as the most successful entertainment format in history and the other is just getting its player profiles right.

It's simply not a fair comparison and you know it.

Besides if the shoe was on the other foot or if HD DVD defeated BluRay, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be making such a comparison.

3515.2.2008 16:47

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3615.2.2008 16:57

Originally posted by hughjars:
Of course as much as the PS3 fanclub can't bear to admit it, it's just as delusional and 'fanboy-ish' to claim Blu-ray has won a thing at this point when it doesn't even hold 1% of the annual retail movie disc sales.
DVD remains the winner by a country mile.

and of course you being HD-DVD number 1 super fanboy/kid , I notice you have changed the "HD-DVD" to "DVD" - now that you realise all your confident predictions about HD-DVD market superiority and how they were going to win and kill blu-ray has been blown to pieces, you've decided to continue the attack on Blu Ray by substituting HD-DVD for DVD ?
just too funny ( and desperate )

3715.2.2008 16:58
jrosado5
Inactive

So if everyone agrees that HD was the better format in terms of price/performance and had a finalized standard, then why the hell didn't everyone support the format and instead support the non consumer friendly format. Please answer the question Blu-Ray fans. I am very curious why all the hatred for the better format. People just don't make sense anymore, letting corporations decide for us. From the Red camp, we fought for our format because we knew it was better than Blu-Ray in many fronts. It wasn't about pride, it was about what was best for the consumer. Why did you Blu-Ray fans stick with your format when you know it has so many unesolved issues? Was it your pride?

3815.2.2008 17:02

Quote:
Originally posted by hughjars:
Of course as much as the PS3 fanclub can't bear to admit it, it's just as delusional and 'fanboy-ish' to claim Blu-ray has won a thing at this point when it doesn't even hold 1% of the annual retail movie disc sales.

DVD remains the winner by a country mile.

Maybe with sales of less than 1% BD should just stop the delusion and give up too, huh
The DVD vs HDM argument really cannot apply at this point.

You simply cannot compare a well-established 10+ year-old format with a <2 year old fledgling format that's just trying to take its first baby steps.

You have to compare DVD at age 2 and look at BluRay at age 2. You have to compare both sides at similar stages of development - not when one has already been established as the most successful entertainment format in history and the other is just getting its player profiles right.

It's simply not a fair comparison and you know it.

Besides if the shoe was on the other foot or if HD DVD defeated BluRay, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be making such a comparison.
Could not have said it better myself. Agree 100%

3915.2.2008 17:13

Originally posted by glasssd:
If the HD-DVD player is being used as an Upconverter, That does not make HD-DVD survive.
well but it's a fact that will cheer up hd-dvd 1st users

4015.2.2008 17:16

Originally posted by jrosado5:
So if everyone agrees that HD was the better format in terms of price/performance and had a finalized standard, then why the hell didn't everyone support the format and instead support the non consumer friendly format. Please answer the question Blu-Ray fans. I am very curious why all the hatred for the better format. People just don't make sense anymore, letting corporations decide for us. From the Red camp, we fought for our format because we knew it was better than Blu-Ray in many fronts. It wasn't about pride, it was about what was best for the consumer. Why did you Blu-Ray fans stick with your format when you know it has so many unesolved issues? Was it your pride?
The consumer never decided who won.

It was a chess match played between the BDA and the HD DVD Group with the movie studios as chess pieces.

It just so happened that the BDA played a better game and outwitted the HD DVD Promo Group.

We never had a say in the whole matter and deciding the winner was not up to us.

4115.2.2008 17:23

I just want an end to this format war so that maybe, just maybe I can start buying the new "cool" movies in a format that will do them justice. Otherwise DVD is still cool for me... :)...buying something 3 times over is just stupid. I know cause I fell for it a few times and for what, now I have to buy them again for the newest format.. not this time, I'm too old to keep playing the marketing game. Let the kids of today figure this out for themselves like I did and now my money stays in my pocket longer...

4215.2.2008 17:40

Originally posted by m3_chris:

Could not have said it better myself. Agree 100%
Thanks m3_chris.

Here's a whole thread on HD Digest discussing the absurdity of comparing DVD and BluRay at this point:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=42803

My favorite post:

Quote:
I know a lot of people are all saying the same thing here and pointing out how wrong you are.

So here is me jumping ontop of the pile.

I know your trying to make a point here that HDM is a tiny little market. But look at what you are actually saying. Another way you could have said that is.

"So one format that has been out for less than 2 years couldn't outsell a format that has been out for over 10 years."

Do you see now why what you are trying to say is just a little silly?

4315.2.2008 17:50

easy man

who is to say who will win there no fan boy "ism" coming from me there no smirk mate i actually own a ps3 so this article is in favor of my machine,

if you don't want people to comment man don't post.

so hey before you come out blindly swinging watch out you might hit somebody you know.

if i was misunderstood I'm sorry mate

i'm not going to declare "we are the champions" until Toshiba says they will no longer support the format?

d0nd

Quote:
Originally posted by d0nd:
you bet its a fanboy thing but time can only tell

eh... with a single format we can look forward to "not " having to buy things twice =) (at the least)


Ummm............if you can state ONE MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to having both formats around with dual format players being the standard then I will stand corrected. But you can't .............no one can. What are you, foreign?? "Not having to buy things twice." ??? That's a comment that can be expected from one whom is uninformed. Can you say "buy a movie like Transformers that's only available on HD-DVD and then buy a movie that's only available on Blu-ray like Pirates and then buy EITHER format when available on both". This goes for you too moderator and your comment......"Amazing, simply amazing that you can't see the light of day in front of you." Counter me with an intelligible and EXPLAINED disagreement and then just MAYBE you might actually convince ONE PERSON IN YOUR LIFE ON THIS PLANET to see your side.


Counter with your 'holier than thou' smirk remarks and it'll be clear that you have no basis for your claims or at the very least, nothing that counters my theory.

4415.2.2008 18:10

^Toshiba will declare that they have lost, only when they have no more stock to there warehouses, and in my opinion thats the real reason that the drop 50% the prices.

----------------------------------------------

Originally posted by hughjars:

Of course as much as the PS3 fanclub can't bear to admit it, it's just as delusional and 'fanboy-ish' to claim Blu-ray has won a thing at this point when it doesn't even hold 1% of the annual retail movie disc sales.

DVD remains the winner by a country mile.

Maybe with sales of less than 1% BD should just stop the delusion and give up too, huh?

......and at the prices they are expecting for Blu-ray players (particularly when there isn't even a proper range of specs/prices available on the supposedly final 'profile 2.0' yet, shhhh no-one mention profile 3.0 or the chances of more profiles) it's not exactly likely that Blu-ray is going anywhere anytime soon.
Shoot your self!

4515.2.2008 18:10

Maybe the Toshiba Super Bowl commercial was in itself an admittance of defeat - by concentrating on its upscaling abilities for regular dvds instead of concentrating on the next generation capabilities vs Blu Ray.

I didn't see it so I can't say for sure but i'm surprised how many people are saying that its great as an upscaler and even Walmart's official blogger recommending that it be kept as a dvd upscaler - I mean i've had a 1080 upscaler dvd player for almost 3 years now with HDMI output and cable included - this is nothing new - I bought a Samsung 850 model back in 2005 and it is pretty cool and handles all dvd upscaling, is region free and plays DiVX and cost $ 110 almost 3 years ago !

My point is - why is this suddenly an incentive to purchase an HD-DVD player for upscaling if the upscaling machines have been on the market for almost three years and at a price still cheaper than an HD-DVD player ?

It's interesting that Toshiba's official spokesperson has refused to comment on reports that they are about to drop HD-DVD completely. Now 3 months ago they would have wasted no time in saying that the idea was absurd.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 18:13

4615.2.2008 18:41

I was planning on buying a HD-DVD player this upcoming Christmas if things got better for HD-DVD. I don't want to give my money away to Sony and buy a BD player in store. I'll wait and buy a BD player from a street thug at a discounted price.

4715.2.2008 18:56
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by domie:
and of course you being HD-DVD number 1 super fanboy/kid
- Well domie I'd put it more like I have tried to be an anti-Blu-ray BS poster.
That's all.

Originally posted by domie:
I notice you have changed the "HD-DVD" to "DVD"
- I think the overall comparison with DVD is valid and well worth bearing in mind, it's simply not true to say I have not suggested this before, I have several times.

Originally posted by domie:
now that you realise all your confident predictions about HD-DVD market superiority and how they were going to win and kill blu-ray has been blown to pieces
- Do you have any idea how closely this came to going the other way?

But for a sudden change of decision by a group on the Warner board HD DVD did indeed have it all tied up.

Believe it or not.

Originally posted by domie:
you've decided to continue the attack on Blu Ray by substituting HD-DVD for DVD ?


- I don't think you have grasped this at all.
I do not think Blu-ray will be 'a good thing' for anyone.

The reasons for this view are not on the basis of what HD DVD does or does not do.

Blu-ray's flaw and anti-consumer nature do not alter simply because HD DVD may not take the win in this.

Similarly I see no reason to give Blu-ray a 'bye' and stop talking about it's flaws, it's undesirability and anti-consumer nature and it's extremely weak position in the market.

The Blu-ray PR machine sure as hell is not going to snow-storm anyone with percentages and ratios when it comes to DVD.

Originally posted by domie:
just too funny ( and desperate )
- Well weak & rather pathetic insults aside the only funny things I see here are people desperately trying to push Blu-ray on a market that doesn't want to know and claiming they have won something.

If you're so convinced Blu-ray has won then you can't hide behind bashing HD DVD anymore.

In fact if you guys are so sure you've won what are you doing here arguing the toss about?!

I suspect you know only too well you've seen Blu0ray win absolutely nothing so far - in fact falling HDM sales would indicate exactly that.

This new Walmart agreement, like the Warner move doesn't even happen for several months.
That's a very long time in business. :P
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 18:57

4815.2.2008 19:12

SDF_GR just got a two week vacation for his punk comment and the next person to try the same thing will get two weeks or MORE!




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
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"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

4915.2.2008 19:16

As eatsushi said we never had a say in the matter. Only because the studios chose what format they want to use. And can anyone guess why most have chosen BD over HD?

ANSWER: better craptacular DRM

That is the one and only reason these studios went to BD. So they could force us to buy every movie they sell. At very high prices to recoup their supposed losses over the last several years.

Hopefully some very good hacker will create an algorithm to break BD before it is all said and done. And I know that anyDVD says they have. But that doesn't account for the ability to change their DRM structure. I don't remember off the top of my head the actual name of it.

I haven't yet made a choice yet which format to go with. I also haven't purchased any player yet. I'm content with waiting until it ends to purchase the player with the features I want and the price I want.

5015.2.2008 19:33

One thing that continues to amaze me is how many people still equate Blu-Ray with Sony exclusively. Sure, they are the one pushing the format the most, but they are only one of nine founding members of the Blu-Ray Association and one of eighteen board members, not to mention the other 250 companies that are contributors. Just saying that you don't like Blu-Ray because it is Sony doesn't make sense when you have Apple, HP, Dell, Sun Microsystems, LG, Pioneer, Panasonic, and more on the board of directors.
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_infor...4009/Index.html

I just feel bad for the early adopters that paid a premium for HD DVD. I had a couple friends with betamax years ago, so I remember their experience. At least with a HD DVD player you have a decent upscaler for standard DVDs and any HD content you have bought in that format would still look good. What would be a nice gesture of good will would be a replacement program for a nominal fee if they do eventually drop the HD DVD format.

5115.2.2008 21:13
jagstilv
Inactive

Originally posted by jrosado5:
So if everyone agrees that HD was the better format in terms of price/performance and had a finalized standard, then why the hell didn't everyone support the format and instead support the non consumer friendly format. Please answer the question Blu-Ray fans. I am very curious why all the hatred for the better format. People just don't make sense anymore, letting corporations decide for us. From the Red camp, we fought for our format because we knew it was better than Blu-Ray in many fronts. It wasn't about pride, it was about what was best for the consumer. Why did you Blu-Ray fans stick with your format when you know it has so many unesolved issues? Was it your pride?
Not everyone agrees that HD-DVD is the better format, so from the begining your logic is flawed. I've still yet to hear a valid reason why Blu-ray is non-consumer friendly. Saying that it has more DRM (BD+) than HD-DVD doesn't make the product anti-consumer - it makes it anti-pirate. I own 100+ DVD's that I started collecting since 1999 - I've never had to make a 'back-up' just in case in all these years. It seems the only people complaining about BD are HD-DVD fanatics and people pissed that it'll be more difficult to pirate movies. Thank you for trying to save me from big bad corporate Sony though. You remind me of when I lived in SoCal and people were trying to save me from second hand smoke, red meat and McDonald's - thanks but no thanks.

5215.2.2008 21:18
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Xian:
One thing that continues to amaze me is how many people still equate Blu-Ray with Sony exclusively.
- The PS3 as the only Blu-ray player likely to be a 'safe' buy (given the Bu-ray multiple profile mess) has ensured that the other CE support to date has either been a disaster (ref the Samsung debacle) or an expensive waste of time selling minute numbers.

Lately they have been reduced to giving them away for 'free' in certain HD TV deals.

Originally posted by Xian:
I just feel bad for the early adopters that paid a premium for HD DVD.
- I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Every HD DVD player on the market since day 1 has been an excellent SD DVD upscaling player (the match of many of the very high-end SD DVD players costing several times their price) and we still have a (growing) catalogue of 470+ HD DVD titles (in westernm markets 800+ worldwide).

Anyone who bought in the last few months got their HD A3 or HD AEP30 or HD A/EP35 or Venturer with a nice stack of freebie discs making them a bargain no matter what has been happening elsewhere.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 21:19

5315.2.2008 21:19
jagstilv
Inactive

Originally posted by defgod:
As eatsushi said we never had a say in the matter. Only because the studios chose what format they want to use. And can anyone guess why most have chosen BD over HD?

ANSWER: better craptacular DRM

That is the one and only reason these studios went to BD. So they could force us to buy every movie they sell. At very high prices to recoup their supposed losses over the last several years.

Hopefully some very good hacker will create an algorithm to break BD before it is all said and done. And I know that anyDVD says they have. But that doesn't account for the ability to change their DRM structure. I don't remember off the top of my head the actual name of it.

I haven't yet made a choice yet which format to go with. I also haven't purchased any player yet. I'm content with waiting until it ends to purchase the player with the features I want and the price I want.
^ And this is exactly why we have DRM. Is it any wonder why companies would want to protect their product?

5415.2.2008 21:21
david89
Inactive

why are they going market it as good dvd upscaler it's not that great not even regin free to me not as good as OPPO Up-Converting DVD Player. i knew it before when warner first said going pullout that hddvd going take a dump anyways glad there only going be one hd format so much for the war didn't last long.

5516.2.2008 1:39

Looks like I invested in the wrong player

5616.2.2008 1:48
Ludikhris
Inactive

interesting..... #1 retailer in the world drops HD-DVD. I have heard many things in this whole arguement.

1) If the consumer didn't choose the format victor, why did BR consistently sell more discs?

It was my understanding that certain studios on each side chose based on what they thought was best and some were paid. Both sides were guilty of psuedo no competitive practices. BR was consistently winning though. The real statement is "The consumer was choosing the wrong product". In the end it doesn't really matter which one wins, the result will be very similar when HDM goes mainstream.

2) If HD-DVD really is here to stay, where are they going to sell the players? How long until we consider them not direct competition?

Those clinging to this dying format really need to take a look around them. I was once a PS3 fanboy, I had to face the hard reality that competition is really rough this go around. I own a PS3 and a Wii, someday this year I will own a 360. It's just F'n games right? The real gamers don't care about systems. HDDVD is BR are so close to the same that it is splitting hairs with backing one or the other. Sure, I understand a preference but being as die hard as the two sides are is just crazy, even ludicrous.

3) If the HDM market is consistently growing, and news stories are consistently showing SDM slipping more and more each month, why is there an assumption the BR will never succeed when HD-DVD is gone? Wouldn't it be fair to say BR has the exact same chance HD-DVD has if HDDVD has won the format war? Therefore isn't the argument that BR will never conquer DVD is silly because you therefore are arguing that any HD format would have lost to SD and you must have wasted your time by adopting either and coming to these boards to rant about your pick.



There is one thing that puts a smile on my face coming here to watch flame wars. Someone is always going to lose these wars. At the end of the day the people that visit these boards are addicts of there flavor of technology. In this case it is HD movies. What truly puts a smile on my face is the fact that the people that cling to a dying format will someday walk into their flavor or retailer and buy the competing sides product. It always works that way. In this case it looks to be the HD supporters that will one day be buying a BR player. That keeps me smiling because humility is something we all need to experience at some point. I'm sure many a people that I pissed off on numerous message boards would love to be there the day I buy my 360.

5716.2.2008 2:18

hughjars, I just want to ask you one simple and very to answer question. I just want to hear you say it. The rule is you can only answer with a maximum of 7 characters... Are you ready? You may need some counselling after you answer this question. It might really hurt you and scar you indefinitely. I am truly sorry to do this to you my friend... Ok, here goes...

Which format is in a better market position today, Blu-ray or HD-DVD?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 2:20

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

5816.2.2008 6:19

hughjars
Face it bro HDVD has lost and BR will most likely replace DVD in 4-7 years.

On the up side BR has been fully cracked.

5916.2.2008 7:19

Report from Japanese news network NHK: Toshiba is suspending all HD DVD player production:

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/

Quote:
Toshiba plans to withdraw from HD-DVD production

Toshiba Corporation has decided to withdraw from next generation high-definition DVD production.

Toshiba has been struggling with its version of the next generation DVD format, as support for Blu-ray technology has spread among US retailers.

Toshiba has been in heated competition with other Japanese electronic giants such as Sony, Panasonic and Hitachi, which produce the high-definition DVD format, Blu-ray.

The Blu-ray format now makes up 90 percent of the Japanese high-definition DVD market after winning last year's price war for DVD recorders and players.

Toshiba faced even more difficulty when the major movie studio, Warner Brothers Entertainment, announced that it planned to use only the Blu-ray format for its movie software.

The company said it will continue to sell HD-DVD products for a while but will stop further development of HD DVD. Meanwhile, it said its DVD factories in Aomori Prefecture, northern Japan, would be closed.

Market observers said that Toshiba could suffer a loss of hundreds of millions of US dollars.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-155...TV+NHK+%21.html

The following is pure speculation on my part:

The rash of recent announcements from retail and rental could be explained by the fact that Toshiba has already informed them of their plans for a graceful exit. Things could already be in place for a relatively smooth transition that ensures that everyone involved in HD DVD saves face (very important in Japanese business).

Added: Confirmed by Reuters-

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsu...627196120080216

Quote:
Toshiba to exit HD DVD, end format war-NHK

Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:50am EST
TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to stop production of equipment compatible with the HD DVD format for high-definition video, allowing the competing Blu-Ray camp a free run, public broadcaster NHK reported on Saturday.

Toshiba is expected to suffer losses amounting to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to exit the business, Japan's NHK said on its website.

No one at Toshiba could be reached for comment.

The format war between the Toshiba-backed HD DVD and Sony Corp's Blu-Ray, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has slowed the development of what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high-definition DVD industry.

Toshiba was dealt a blow on Friday when Wal-Mart Stores Inc said it would abandon the HD DVD format, becoming the latest in a series of top retailers and movie studios to rally behind Blu-ray technology for high definition DVDs.

Toshiba plans to continue selling HD DVD equipment at stores for the time being but will not put resources into developing new devices, NHK said.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 8:03

6016.2.2008 8:50

Originally posted by Ryu77:
hughjars, I just want to ask you one simple and very to answer question. I just want to hear you say it. The rule is you can only answer with a maximum of 7 characters... Are you ready? You may need some counselling after you answer this question. It might really hurt you and scar you indefinitely. I am truly sorry to do this to you my friend... Ok, here goes...

Which format is in a better market position today, Blu-ray or HD-DVD?
Update: Which format has a position in the market today, Blu-ray or HD-DVD? :-P

In all honesty, I am trying to make light of yet another heated Blu-ray/HD-DVD thread because some of these threads have become very amusing. I have to say though that I do feel empathy for the HD-DVD supporters who bought a product in good faith that they will be looked after by the parent company and subsidiaries, only to face such a let down. When these two formats came into the market place, it was obvious that the end wouldn't be pretty and a lot of people would get hurt along the way. When two corporate giants such as Sony and Toshiba are going head to head then the competition is certainly going to be fierce and heated.

As juankerr said, the Japanese culture is very much about pride. It's very important for them to gracefully accept defeat with as much honor and pride intact as possible. I can back this up as being accurate with a lifetime of Martial Arts training, studying Japanese ways and culture and also my visits to Japan. Not to get too personal and off track, but they truly have a wonderful, respectful culture and I believe we can all benefit from being a bit more humble.

With that said, it would be nice to see a bit more humility on these threads and a few more men being men. We should always accept a situation for what it is.

It's obvious we are all passionate about Home Theater, Gaming, PC's, Music etc., so don't we all have something in common? Why can't we all just be friends? I think it's most important to see the positive in a situation and with every bit of adversity lies opportunity, even if it is simply the opportunity to learn to accept defeat or a loss with tolerance and humility. So let's get back to the reason why Afterdawn was created in the first place... To expand our knowledge on current technology, to keep up to date with the latest software and most importantly to help others when they are in need. Remember, we were there at one time also.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 8:55

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

6116.2.2008 8:56

Ryu77: Domo arigato.

6216.2.2008 9:00

Originally posted by juankerr:
Ryu77: Domo arigato.
Hai! Do itashe mashite!... :-)

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

6316.2.2008 10:49
JimmyNice
Inactive

Now while I have no stake in Toshiba or Sony, their both big companies that exist to make money... bottom line... and don't give me the repeated "oh my God they used root-kit's" repeated crap ad nauseum... if we all hung every product a company ever made on 1 stupid move... we wouldn't buy from anyone.

Now to your comment "jrosado5". That's a pretty condescending attitude and sounds more like sour grapes than an honest question. Who honestly doles out their hard earned cash en masse due to stubbornness or pride... or you just think we're all stupid and can't see what you think is the obvious answer. I'm a democrat that may not understand why republicans voted for George Bush, but I don't just believe there all idiots or voted out of spite.

People spent their money, thereby voted on their choice of systems based on the information they had at their finger tips. I was buying a tv last October and an HD source and while I was walking through electronics stores, I had many a sales man pushing HD-DVD on my and anyone who happened to be with me, but I wasn't sold... know why? HD-DVD simply didn't have what I wanted. they had 30% of available films exclusive and another 20% shared from Warner Brothers... total 50% of what was on the market... Blu-ray had 50% exclusivity and 20% shared from Warner, so 70% of all films available I could get on Blu-ray. Not to mention they had Disney in their stable... which is huge not only for me but my kids.

I didn't care about DRM... I didn't care about interactive online content. I didn't know about the extent of issues some people had with what version of blu-ray they had, but what I did know about it, I wasn't concerned because if I was going blu-ray, I was going to get the one that was future proof... the PS3. I did care that at the time the only true 1080p films seemed to be blu-ray. I did care that there was more space blu-ray compared layer to layer.

The same thing happened when I went to get my TV... I was sure I was going to get a Plasma, either Samsung or Panasonic... but in my search, reading up on product and going to look at them myself, I bought a 52" Sony Bravia LCD along with my PS3...

Did I invest all my hard earned cash because I'm a Sony fanboy or "pride" made me want to by a lesser product... No... how stupid does that sound. I bought what I felt was going to give me the most of what I wanted... not what Sony wanted, not what Toshiba wanted... What I wanted. An awesome system, that looks great, wows everyone that comes into my house and plays all the stuff I want. I would never suggest that someone who bought an HD-DVD player with Shrek 3 at a great price did it just out of pride to support a dying product, they did it because it seemed like a good deal on something they wanted... how is that any different than anyone's purchase.

I know it may seem shocking but most consumers do actually have a brain in their head, and somehow, manage to make decisions for themselves everyday. While I may not have made the same purchase choices as some of my friends (buddy spent the same amount of cash as me on a 60" sony rear projection hdtv) I get that they made the decision based on what they wanted to get (in his case size was more important than image sharpness)not what I thought "the informed masses" were doing.

If all the studios abandoned Blu-ray en masse because their executives were caught in the act of interspecies erotica and all the stuff I wanted was HD-DVD, I'd have a player in my house pretty quick.

But they don't... and they didn't... so I didn't... and neither did the majority of HD adopters.. end of story.

That's just my penny times 2.

Jim

6416.2.2008 10:51
hughjars
Inactive

Well if the latest reports are true then it was fun while it lasted.

Pity about the poor old consumer though, the least consumer-friendly format may have 'won' - but only in relation to the 'battle' between HD DVD & BD - and only then because of the back-room dealing.

I'm not so bothered, I honestly doubt BD will ever escape the niche.

Personally I shall be looking forward to buying up a stack of HD DVDs at tiny prices.

I will not be buying Blu-ray.

I don't want a game console for my movie player and once the PS3 is discarded from the equation then BD has nothing appealing to me.

I am not paying 200/$400+ for a stand-alone player and in any event I will wait a very long time to see how they go about using BD+ etc etc.

But I have no need for Blu-ray anyways.
I have my HD DVDs,
I have my HD TV service & DVR (these will be the real winners this time out),
I have my 600+ upscaled SD DVD movies (and SD DVD isn't going away anywhere) and
a ton of downloads (over 400 Blu-ray films are available on the net right now).

There's a saying, be careful what you wish for.

I think it applies perfectly to the PS3/Blu-ray fanclub & this matter.

6516.2.2008 12:06

^^Boo Hoo^^ I'm crying cause you wont buy into Blu.

6616.2.2008 12:45

Originally posted by glasssd:
^^Boo Hoo^^ I'm crying cause you wont buy into Blu.
I know for fact youve been warned before, take another break from AD.

6716.2.2008 13:35

Another Reuters report this time quoting a source from inside Toshiba:

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216

Quote:
A source at Toshiba confirmed an earlier report by public broadcaster NHK that it was getting ready to pull the plug.

"We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified. He added that an official announcement could come as early as next week.

It looks like we'll be seeing an announcement from Toshiba ahead of any word from Paramount or Universal.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 13:37

6816.2.2008 13:46

Originally posted by error5:
Another Reuters report this time quoting a source from inside Toshiba:

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216

Quote:
A source at Toshiba confirmed an earlier report by public broadcaster NHK that it was getting ready to pull the plug.

"We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified. He added that an official announcement could come as early as next week.

It looks like we'll be seeing an announcement from Toshiba ahead of any word from Paramount or Universal.
I wonder when they will fire up BR payer production, if they drp HD DVD they could simi smoothly transcend over to BR production..

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

6916.2.2008 14:01

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

I wonder when they will fire up BR payer production, if they drp HD DVD they could simi smoothly transcend over to BR production..
I tend to agree with juankerr's earlier post. Toshiba's announcement could come with details of a BluRay capable player, most likely NOT a dual format IMO. If Toshiba can make a BD model that's as reliable and as well-built as my XA2 then I'll be taking a long hard look at it (especially if it comes with a Reon chip).

7016.2.2008 14:17
Ludikhris
Inactive

As a person I am not attacking you at all Hughjars but two things you have said I am going to doubt. Healthy debate right?

1) I honestly doubt BR will be anything more than a niche market.

Come on, with the track record you have on being right about the HD media market you will still say things like this? A person could have gotten rich betting money for BR each time you staunchly defended HD. I actually went and read back a bunch of HD posts last night and you were in a lot of them. I'm not sure I saw one post that actually worked out to your prediction. All the market analysts show that HD is the next massive format to hit homes. Sure it won't be like DVD, but it will in time replace DVD as the #1 format. Digital distribution will go up to, but they don't really have a viable "iTunes" like option at this point that people are ready to massively buy into. I do beleve in digital distribution, but it's inability to service quality to the likes of BR and HDDVD will keep it held back.

2) I will not be buying BR.

You are obviously a fan of media, HD media even. That being said I would never believe a true fan of technology would hold back in buying a product only because "their chosen format didn't win the format war". If you look inwards nice and deep you'll see that it is really pride stopping you from buying one. Someday when all your friends have BR players and everyone as these really cool setups, you'll look at your HDDVD upconverter and say, "Man, I need to get Transformers 32 in HD". You'll eventually buy one, I would put money on it.

When PS3 came out and was heavily battered by Wii and 360, I bought a Wii. I am even thinking to buy a 360 even though I trash talked it on these forums forever. That's what makes me a fan of video games.

Sticking with your HDDVD player and saying "I won't buy BR" even though it is the industry standard doesn't show a fan of films or a fan of the media technology, it shows a fan of a company.

7116.2.2008 14:25

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
As a person I am not attacking you at all Hughjars but two things you have said I am going to doubt. Healthy debate right?

1) I honestly doubt BR will be anything more than a niche market.

Come on, with the track record you have on being right about the HD media market you will still say things like this? A person could have gotten rich betting money for BR each time you staunchly defended HD. I actually went and read back a bunch of HD posts last night and you were in a lot of them. I'm not sure I saw one post that actually worked out to your prediction. All the market analysts show that HD is the next massive format to hit homes. Sure it won't be like DVD, but it will in time replace DVD as the #1 format. Digital distribution will go up to, but they don't really have a viable "iTunes" like option at this point that people are ready to massively buy into. I do beleve in digital distribution, but it's inability to service quality to the likes of BR and HDDVD will keep it held back.

2) I will not be buying BR.

You are obviously a fan of media, HD media even. That being said I would never believe a true fan of technology would hold back in buying a product only because "their chosen format didn't win the format war". If you look inwards nice and deep you'll see that it is really pride stopping you from buying one. Someday when all your friends have BR players and everyone as these really cool setups, you'll look at your HDDVD upconverter and say, "Man, I need to get Transformers 32 in HD". You'll eventually buy one, I would put money on it.

When PS3 came out and was heavily battered by Wii and 360, I bought a Wii. I am even thinking to buy a 360 even though I trash talked it on these forums forever. That's what makes me a fan of video games.

Sticking with your HDDVD player and saying "I won't buy BR" even though it is the industry standard doesn't show a fan of films or a fan of the media technology, it shows a fan of a company.
Meh the way the market works one it hits the price range thats inline with DVD it will simply phase DVD out, do you think the media and hardware mafia will continue to release stuff on DVD when tis bottom line is no worse than DVD?

Of coarse it will take 5 years to grow outside a a small niche but its coming because the corporations will make deals with themselfs to move the masses to it and the masses will no option other than to buy the only thing they are selling...

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

7216.2.2008 16:48
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Come on, with the track record you have on being right about the HD media market you will still say things like this?
- Well if you want to play that little game that's up to you.

Most serious observers know that this came within a hair's breadth of going exactly as I described (and as I was myself being informed).

The Universal Ken Graffeo interview supports my statements, they all were on their way to CES on their planes believing they had it all signed & sealed.
At some point in future the details will leak out & we'll hear what we missed (like the Tosh 360 tie up & the 2 Blu studios who were in negotiation).

You might even hear what was going on since the WB announcement & in the last couple of weeks and how close things came a 2nd time to getting really interesting for HD DVD.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
All the market analysts show that HD is the next massive format to hit homes.
- I have no doubt.

But this time it's going to be DVRs tied in with your satellite/cable deal that make the big splash.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Sure it won't be like DVD, but it will in time replace DVD as the #1 format.
- Blu-ray?

You must be joking.

Expensive, unfinished and too late to the party (by the time it is complete & available in a mass-market-friendly range of prices & specs).

Besides there is still absolutely no indication of the general public being in the least bit interested in paying the premium for what they get for it.

You and I might go all gooey over high def but how many times have you shown it off expecting an enthusiastic reaction only to get told 'it's not that much different' and to be laughed at when told the pricing (and in my case that's the much lower HD DVD pricing)?

Stop kidding yourself.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Digital distribution will go up to, but they don't really have a viable "iTunes" like option at this point that people are ready to massively buy into.
- That will come (and as iTunes themselves only took 3 months to match and pass Blu-ray sales I don't doubt the interest or success - all of which is diluting the market and meaning Blu-ray can never simply be 'the next DVD' because that market, as it was, is long gone.

HD DVD could have done it in a very smooth way by simply becoming DVD thanks to it's low prices & the Twin disc (& to a lesser extent the combo) which left no-one behind when the switch was made to high def.
Blu-ray can never do that (they do not have the rights)

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
I do beleve in digital distribution, but it's inability to service quality to the likes of BR and HDDVD will keep it held back.
- I think you are seriously & wildly over-estimating the mass-market's interest in the 'nth degree' of either visual or audio quality.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
I would never believe a true fan of technology would hold back in buying a product only because "their chosen format didn't win the format war".
- ......and that is absolutely not why I will never buy into Blu-ray.

This isn't like supporting a football team.

There are real and serious concerns I have about Blu-ray that I cannot support.

Their profile mess is the most obvious but the DRM/security matters (and the track record of a major backer with things like root kits) is also of great importance to me.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
If you look inwards nice and deep you'll see that it is really pride stopping you from buying one.
- Seriously, you are dead wrong.

I know there are those who dismiss this kind of stuff but IMO Blu-ray is a calculated attack on the sharing community.

I can never & will never give them a penny.

If they drop movie prices to DVD levels and get a sensible range of players at decent prices and ditch BD+ (and their watermarking) and show a couple of years without using rootkits or anything similar then I might reconsider.

But you know as well as I that they are never going to do that.

Blu-ray 'becoming like a better DVD at current DVD prices' was never in the BD script.
(which is why the mass-market will ignore it)

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Someday when all your friends have BR players
- You're fooling yourself.
The mass-market is not going Blu, no matter how many PS3s they sell.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Sticking with your HDDVD player and saying "I won't buy BR" even though it is the industry standard doesn't show a fan of films or a fan of the media technology, it shows a fan of a company.
- .....and like I said if you honestly think those are my reasons for avoiding BD then you could not be more wrong.

I am happy to have an honest debate on the merits or otherwise of the situation but lets at least stick to what I have actually said.

.....and btw the 'company supporter' thing is wrong.
I'm no more interested in a Blu-ray game console than I am an HD DVD game console.
I did buy an XBox 360 HD DVD add-on as the least expensive way into high def just over a year ago but it had nothing to do with games and certainly was not the then 425 the PS3 cost (it was 119 IIRC).
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 20:01

7316.2.2008 17:12

Lately a few posts I have made on these Blu-ray/HD-DVD threads seem to get totally ignored... Is it 1) Because my posts prove a point that no-one wants to admit? or 2) Because my posts make no sense at all?

I honestly don't know because most of the following posts seemed to get back to the I'm right because.... blah, blah, blah!

I know it's an open forum meant for discussion but some of these threads go way too far. Some of the points made are clearly born out of dislike for Sony and their success. I could almost say it represents jealousy. I feel that emotion itself is a sign of immaturity which would explain some of the patterns in these threads.

If it was the other way around and HD-DVD became the successor of DVD, I can guarantee you that I would still be saying positive things about HD-DVD. Actually if it was the other way around where we sit today, I would start looking around to purchase a HD-DVD player because I am a Home Theater enthusiast after all.

hughjars, you still didn't answer my question... :-P

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 17:30

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

7416.2.2008 19:56
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Which format is in a better market position today, Blu-ray or HD-DVD?
- Between those 2?
On what appears to be the facts as they are today?
Well from the look of things right now it looks like Blu-ray holds the best ground (but we await official confirmation & direct statements).

But I doubt very much that it is as simplistic a situation as you clearly want to imply.

It's still perfectly plausible that Blu-ray can come out of this in the long-run 'winning' absolutely nothing and failing to make the leap out of the niche.

Does that answer your question?

7516.2.2008 21:04

Quote:
Originally posted by Ryu77:
Which format is in a better market position today, Blu-ray or HD-DVD?
- Between those 2?
On what appears to be the facts as they are today?
Well from the look of things right now it looks like Blu-ray holds the best ground (but we await official confirmation & direct statements).

But I doubt very much that it is as simplistic a situation as you clearly want to imply.

It's still perfectly plausible that Blu-ray can come out of this in the long-run 'winning' absolutely nothing and failing to make the leap out of the niche.

Does that answer your question?
Its official more of less.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12950.cfm

I'd give HDVD a 10% chance of toppling BR but rankly.....its done.

7616.2.2008 22:02

hughjars, you broke the rules... Come on! The limit was 7 characters with your answer. The rules of the game were clear. I knew you couldn't do it. If I was Jigsaw, you wouldn't be feeling too good right about now. :-P

Yes, it does answer my question in a round about kind of way. As Zippy said though, it looks official enough to me. If you don't think so... Well...


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

7716.2.2008 22:32

Here's the gig, i have very little preference as i own both format players. But...

Quote:
If you don't think so... Well...


Fact is...the truth still remains the truth whether it is believed or not.


7816.2.2008 23:32

Originally posted by 7thsinger:
Fact is...the truth still remains the truth whether it is believed or not.
I agree completely but trying to prove that point to some on this forum is hopeless. I wanted to keep my posts here as simple as possible, which is why I asked hughjars for a 7 character answer, which he couldn't even do. I could go on filling up half a thread page with my point of view like some have done here but the way I see it... Is it really worth it?

I have better things to do with my time. I would rather participate in a conversation surrounded by positivity, development and helping people.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 23:33

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

7917.2.2008 1:01

hughjars, let me ask you another question in which I hope brings a simple answer...

You said on a number of occasions that Sony haven't really won anything and have very little chance of escaping a niche market. So logic would say that Sony and Toshiba were competing for this exact same niche market which you speak of. Wouldn't it be fair to say that you believed from the very beginning that Toshiba would also have little chance of making it into the mainstream?


"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

8017.2.2008 1:24

Originally posted by Ryu77:
I agree completely but trying to prove that point to some on this forum is hopeless......I could go on filling up half a thread page with my point of view like some have done here but the way I see it... Is it really worth it?

I have better things to do with my time. I would rather participate in a conversation surrounded by positivity, development and helping people.
That is why I try to avoid news posts (especially BD vs HD) but this time around I had to say something, as sometimes it is just so good to be right from the get go...and knowing it. But why waste my time with people who cannot comprehend certain things. Let alone even acknowledge you have a point.


Originally posted by Ryu77:
hughjars, let me ask you another question in which I hope brings a simple answer...

You said on a number of occasions that Sony haven't really won anything and have very little chance of escaping a niche market. So logic would say that Sony and Toshiba were competing for this exact same niche market which you speak of. Wouldn't it be fair to say that you believed from the very beginning that Toshiba would also have little chance of making it into the mainstream?
Damn, that was good....and I am surprised I didn't say that!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Feb 2008 @ 1:32

8117.2.2008 15:42

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Originally posted by 7thsinger:
Fact is...the truth still remains the truth whether it is believed or not.
I agree completely but trying to prove that point to some on this forum is hopeless. I wanted to keep my posts here as simple as possible, which is why I asked hughjars for a 7 character answer, which he couldn't even do. I could go on filling up half a thread page with my point of view like some have done here but the way I see it... Is it really worth it?

I have better things to do with my time. I would rather participate in a conversation surrounded by positivity, development and helping people.
You're absolutely right Ryu. And i have found your posts (among a very few others) to be of the positive mindset. As a general rule i try to post and read as little as possible from these BD vs. HDDvd (as also stated by Oner...and for the same reasons) threads. So, to you, Oner, and a few others i offer a sincere thanks for posting in a good manner.

Quote:
You said on a number of occasions that Sony haven't really won anything and have very little chance of escaping a niche market. So logic would say that Sony and Toshiba were competing for this exact same niche market which you speak of. Wouldn't it be fair to say that you believed from the very beginning that Toshiba would also have little chance of making it into the mainstream?

Very true! Could not have said better.


Let's face it: The format war is ending...deal with it. Accept gracefully what you cannot control. I am certainly not going to get excited about a media format that will eventually be replaced by something else.


8217.2.2008 17:06

The prices are going to really have to come down to make me switch from buying standard DVDs. The main reason is that I only have a single PS3 Blu-Ray player, so if I buy any discs they will not play anywhere else in my house. A lot of what I buy is childrens titles - they will watch them over and over but it's only the occasional movie I watch more than once. The kids usually watch them on the tv in their play room, not the main set where the Blu-Ray player is located. The players are going to have to come down to less than $100 and the discs are going to have to be the same or a very low markup over a standard DVD.

The other reason is that for the most part, upscaled DVD is good enough, and usually cheaper. I have rented quite a few Blu-Ray discs and many are not much improved over the upscaled standard DVD in my perception. I am sure someone could probably point out differences, but if you have to go looking for them, the difference can't be that great.

8317.2.2008 18:28
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Ryu77:
hughjars, let me ask you another question in which I hope brings a simple answer...
- Look mate I appreciate that you want a nice, neat & simple answers but this is hardly the subject for that kind of response.

The topic just doesn't lend itself to simplistic assessments or answers.

Originally posted by Ryu77:
You said on a number of occasions that Sony haven't really won anything and have very little chance of escaping a niche market.
- This is correct
(except I do not often talk about this in terms of 'Sony').

Blu-ray.

Because of the things the BDA have said and done and where Blu-ray is now.

Originally posted by Ryu77:
So logic would say that Sony and Toshiba were competing for this exact same niche market which you speak of.
- No. That does not follow & is not actually logical at all.

The formats are not as directly comparable or equivalent as you want to imply in the manner you suggest.

HD DVD could have simply 'become' DVD by an easy and barely noticeable evolutionary process & in a way that Blu-ray can never do.

HD DVD has/had the huge advantage of the Twin disc (and to a lesser degree the combo disc).
Blu-ray (due to the legal rights situation) can never have that (unless the DVD Forum says otherwise).

So right there there is a vast difference in what the 2 formats can do and become.

Had the HD DVD studios switched to only producing Twin discs and combos the move to high def could have been made completely without leaving anyone behind.

Blu-ray cannot do this, it is a huge difference between the formats.

Similarly HD DVD was the only (complete) format to get cheap enough fast enough and offer a proper range of 'final spec' stand-alone devices at various prices & specs.
That is another huge difference.

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Wouldn't it be fair to say that you believed from the very beginning that Toshiba would also have little chance of making it into the mainstream?
- No.

8418.2.2008 6:43

You know what the funny thing is hughjars, I had a feeling you would pick up on that one (that I used the word Sony instead of Blu-ray and Toshiba instead of HD-DVD) and I wanted to change it but I thought he can't really bring that up as a point... But then again I should have known you would. I know you understood what I meant, everyone else did. I don't see why you brought up something pointless like that. It seems to be a common theme in your posts. Just to make it clear...

Sony = Blu-ray

Toshiba = HD-DVD

As for everything else, as I said earlier... It's hopeless. You can have your HD-DVD player and be happy with your limited movie selection and I'll have my Blu-ray player and look forward to a growing library that WILL continue to grow and penetrate the mainstream.

You can mark my words on the above statement. If I am wrong I will buy you a HD-DVD player... If I can still get one. :-P

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Feb 2008 @ 6:49

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

8518.2.2008 11:17
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Ryu77:
I don't see why you brought up something pointless like that. It seems to be a common theme in your posts.
- Well you can believe it or not but I do not often bring Sony into the matter unless I think it's appropriate.

It saves the pedantic fanboys from moaning about how Blu-ray isn't all about Sony.

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Just to make it clear...

Sony = Blu-ray
- Opps.

Originally posted by Ryu77:
You can have your HD-DVD player and be happy with your limited movie selection
- Er, i have a growing movie selection to look forward to.

Warner don't do anything until June, Paramount have announced several new titles and Universal (through their Australian division at least) have at least 20 titles coming.

Then there are the HD TV movies, the new SD DVD titles and the rips (of all formats).

I have no problem with high def content.

Originally posted by Ryu77:
I'll have my Blu-ray player and look forward to a growing library that WILL continue to grow and penetrate the mainstream.
- Well guess away.

You have no guarantee that Blu-ray is genuinely going to take off and penetrate the mainstream at all.

It shows absolutely zero sign of doing so at this point.

In fact you have no guarantee that this format war did not just see us end up with 2 losing formats.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Feb 2008 @ 11:18

869.4.2008 1:45

R.I.P HD DVD well i had always said it was going to be left up to the retailers to make the final choice to see who wins this war.

879.4.2008 2:32

Originally posted by borhan9:
R.I.P HD DVD well i had always said it was going to be left up to the retailers to make the final choice to see who wins this war.
Well, it's pretty easy to predict things when you're constantly going back in time 2 months in the AfterDawn Time Machine!

Note: Last post in thread by hughjars was on the 19th February 2008.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Apr 2008 @ 2:35

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

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