AfterDawn: Tech news

HD DVD cost Toshiba a billion

Written by Matti Vähäkainu (Google+) @ 13 Mar 2008 9:26 User comments (28)

HD DVD cost Toshiba a billion Toshiba's high-definition format HD DVD, which was put to sleep three weeks ago, cost the company a whopping one billion dollars, reports Japanese source. After huge marketing campaigns, handful of price drops and lost partners HD DVD was officially buried. According to Nikkei Business Daily the war cost Toshiba approximately 100 billion yen, or $986 million.
Nikkei claims that as much as $500 million comes from the shutdown of HD DVD production lines, the rest can be explained by the extensive advertisement campaigns and poor product sales. In comparison, the 30-second Super Bowl advertisement cost Toshiba almost $3 million alone.

Toshiba did not comment the Nikkei's figures, but according to a Toshiba representative the company is currently estimating the losses.

Previous Next  

28 user comments

113.3.2008 9:55

think of all the people that can be fed with that same amount of money... oh well, the price of business... they shouldn have gone at it alone in my opinion...

213.3.2008 10:19

Seriously... it's so much money, we'll never be able to fathom it. And still, these corporations are fueled by greed while the common folk bust their backsides just to eat.

313.3.2008 10:27

This is exactly the reason why no one else wanted to design, develop and manufacture an HD DVD player. (The Venturer and the Onkyo were rebadged Toshibas.) The player prices were deflated to such an extent that it became a non-viable business. Who would want to make a player when you're sure to take a loss on the whole deal?

413.3.2008 12:40

Did you say...


one billion?

Damn, they really took a hit. I can't imagine how much they would have lost if the war wouldn't have ended this fast.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Mar 2008 @ 12:40

513.3.2008 12:47
hughjars
Inactive

Toshiba got out of high def discs when they realised the movie studios were going to put all their weight behind a futile effort to try and keep HDMs 'secure' and so were determined to back Blu-ray no matter what.

In the face of that it's no wonder they cut their losses and got out.

The only irony to this is that by doing so the movie studios have ensured HDMs on disc remain a niche market (and one of the smaller niches at that).

The general public won't give a flying f*ck as they will stick with upscaling SD DVD (for the bulk of those that have HD TV) and HD TV services (many of which include some sort of HD DVR).

The Toshiba Super Upconversion
(see here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1qxa1zv5uI )
looks very interesting and if it lives up to the price/performance promise will be bound to attract the mass-market as it is designed for & works with existing SD DVD collections.

613.3.2008 12:49
vinny13
Inactive

Isn't that just a nice smack in the face? Lmao

I can just visualize the hand-to-face contact that one made right there ;)

713.3.2008 15:58

lol @ arcanix

813.3.2008 18:38

With Toshiba Super Upconversion, they may get the last laugh yet!

913.3.2008 19:24

Originally posted by hughjars:
Toshiba got out of high def discs when they realised the movie studios were going to put all their weight behind a futile effort to try and keep HDMs 'secure' and so were determined to back Blu-ray no matter what.

In the face of that it's no wonder they cut their losses and got out.

The only irony to this is that by doing so the movie studios have ensured HDMs on disc remain a niche market (and one of the smaller niches at that).

The general public won't give a flying f*ck as they will stick with upscaling SD DVD (for the bulk of those that have HD TV) and HD TV services (many of which include some sort of HD DVR).

The Toshiba Super Upconversion
(see here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1qxa1zv5uI )
looks very interesting and if it lives up to the price/performance promise will be bound to attract the mass-market as it is designed for & works with existing SD DVD collections.

You just wont give it up... You are a joke!
Its over buddy, Blu won and its nothing you can do or say that will change that... Blu went in to win when toshiba was there to try, simple as that.
Just a blimd men can't see that... most of people don't give a damn about backing up and burn movies(i do that too, but is just not right, its actually illegal)... And movie companies just want to make sure it stays that way. Backing a product that it is more secure and with higher capacity is just RIGHT! How many times do you really watch a movie? I just started to realize that its a dumb idea, we don't need to back up anything. Just pay for what you use and do what is right.

1013.3.2008 19:47
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by i1der:
You are a joke!
- Naaa, the real and only joke here are the Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub who imagine that the minuscule Blu-ray sales mean much of anything right now.

Originally posted by i1der:
Its over buddy, Blu won and its nothing you can do or say that will change that.
- Er, yeah......and where did I say different, hmmmm?

But here's the reality check; Blu-ray has won only the little tussle with HD DVD.

Congratulations.

It doesn't mean a thing to the retail movie disc market as a whole where Blu-ray largely remains invisible and confined to the PS3 niche.

Blu-ray is (as I said) a hell of a long ways off of proving it's own durability never-mind whether or not it can actually genuinely compete with SD DVD.

Sorry that those facts cause you such obvious, if laughable, distress.

Originally posted by i1der:
I just started to realize that its a dumb idea, we don't need to back up anything. Just pay for what you use and do what is right.
- If you really don't have the intellectual capacity to understand the principles behind preferring an open future as opposed to the DRM-laden closed BS that these things like Blu-ray represent then that's your own tragic little problem.

Sadly it seems that there are always the truly and lamentably vacuous amongst us who'll cheer on the typical 'if you aren't doing anything wrong you've nothing to fear' fascist idiocy.

You must be so proud.

1113.3.2008 20:17

D@mm1t hughjars...get outta my head! Your taking all of my thoughts and ideology. Just kidding. I think its really funny what the Blu crew thinks they have really achieved. Instead they fail to realize certain things about the HD DVD format that were so similar to the SD DVD format. Yet I'm already on my next project as to where I'm trying to use Pinnacle studio 11 to create SD DVD formats into HD DVD formats. Fortunately movie studios still do new releases on SD DVD. What a pity to find a format still appears useful even after its demise. While they fail to realize that the world still turns even after that nonsense of a format war.... the lemmings can have fun following their leader off the cliff. HD DVD and Blu Ray was something that was never needed in the first place but as companies progress with hardware either old or new tech, people in my situation will always progress with software.

1213.3.2008 20:41

Toshiba have redistributed nearly a billion dollars of their wealth so how much of Sony's fortunes have been redistributed? By all accounts it must be more.

Now there seems to be the question of HD Vs upconverted SD. How many TV's that are being bought are actually full HD? From what I've seen the vast majority are 'HD ready' so HD content is downconverted and therefore the difference between the two becomes less obvious - as people are finding out.

1313.3.2008 21:43

But it also cost Sony $400 million to Warner Bros. to have them stop producing movies on the HD-DVD format. Not to mention how much money they dropped into the studios that backed Blu-ray.

1413.3.2008 22:21

hughjars just wants to attack everything and everyone that may even look at blu ray in a non attacker way. anyways, if it was companies that ended this and not consumers because they werent given a choice, what makes you think studios that want people to buy the newer more expensive dvd format, (blu ray) wont start making less and less dvd's to make sure people transition to blu ray no matter what?

also i dont know whats the deal with saying that hd dvd was all that because it was region free. i really dont know how much people buy the same movies from other countries just to watch it in another language or something. what are they cheaper that way or something? isnt that why ethernet ports have to be there so you can download other things like another launguage or subtitles or whatever? oh right blu ray specs werent finished by the time it launched. are people forced to buy blu ray before the 2.0 players launch?

oh yeah blu ray sales are nothing compared to dvds. thats a premise so stupid that we shouldnt say anything about it. oh yeah the ps3 market. i guess dvd's stupid too since most peoples first dvd player was a ps2... bottom line. dont like blu ray, then dont buy it. just like you dont like same sex marriage, dont mary someone your own sex...

1513.3.2008 22:26

Originally posted by juankerr:
This is exactly the reason why no one else wanted to design, develop and manufacture an HD DVD player. (The Venturer and the Onkyo were rebadged Toshibas.) The player prices were deflated to such an extent that it became a non-viable business. Who would want to make a player when you're sure to take a loss on the whole deal?
Venturer must have been pretty pissed off when Toshiba undercut their player by $50. I wonder how many units they sold.

1613.3.2008 23:48

Originally posted by hughjars:
The general public won't give a flying **** ...
Easy big guy, I don't want to have to put you into my crosshairs, and I have pretty good aim.

It's over. HD-DVD is dead. Get used to it. Move on.

- A_Klingon -

1714.3.2008 0:03

Originally posted by unicus:
...How many TV's that are being bought are actually full HD? From what I've seen the vast majority are 'HD ready' so HD content is downconverted and therefore the difference between the two becomes less obvious - as people are finding out.
Good point.

The smaller screens often have only 720p native resolution, I am discovering.

This does qualify as real HD, if not up to 1080p status, but you're right - 720p is still better than SD DVD, and how many will be able to discern any meaningful differences on a smaller screen?

1814.3.2008 0:55

I only laugh when somebody says its over either hd-dvd fan or blu-ray fan, you just dont get it...

IT DOESNT END, EVER

sony won, toshiba will be ultimately on blu-ray waggon and will win on it, if it where the other way Sony would be on HD-DVD and win as well just because

They are making you buy all of the same things again!!!

i guess now that you have an hd tv you see it as something that you just cant help, cause Sd DVD want do it for you.

but then, isnt VOD the next round on HD market???

even if the Internet connections cant hold HD VOD right now, it was the same on HD DVD vs Blu-Ray, talking about players, i can bet that ISPS can make the jump on technology once someone as Msoft or Toshiba or even Apple want it to be.

But all will be on the right time once everybody has embraced bluray and its more of a bussines to make you jump again, this time on to VOD

1914.3.2008 1:51

but then, isnt VOD the next round on HD market???
=========================================================
Yes it is. Why go out when you can get it without leaving the house and paying (soon to be) $4 a galon for gas.
=========================================================


even if the Internet connections cant hold HD VOD right now, it was the same on HD DVD vs Blu-Ray, talking about players, i can bet that ISPS can make the jump on technology once someone as Msoft or Toshiba or even Apple want it to be.
============================================================
Actually that jump is starting to occur now with fiber to the home (or node). Give it less than 5 years and you will see streaming HD. Fiber optic connections can carry an insane amount of data. The bottleneck occurs on the network backbone!
=============================================================


But all will be on the right time once everybody has embraced bluray and its more of a bussines to make you jump again, this time on to VOD
=============================================================
BR may have won this format war at the worst possible time. Poor economy, higher costs for EVERYTHING due to high oil prices, equals less money to spend on non essentials. By the time the economy turns around there will be a BBD out there.

2014.3.2008 5:29

i don't understand why everyone gets so excited. anyone remember the great quadrophonic standards battle in the 70's - all of the alternatives died without trace. and why take sides its like saying my hammer is better than your hammer - who gives a toss - its a hammer/video player

2114.3.2008 18:50

Originally posted by jove:
i really dont know how much people buy the same movies from other countries just to watch it in another language or something. what are they cheaper that way or something?
firstly, it is because some movies, even american ones, are only released in other regions, at least it is/was for certain vhs/dvds. or other regions have better or different cuts. or its a british tv show and the music rights aren't cleared for use in other regions(why the fuck aren't all these licenses global and for future media(think tv shows where they didn't license the music for anything other than broadcast, and now 'it'd be too expensive' to re-license on dvd, so the fans get screwed)approved from the get go??).
lastly,
because the movie industry is retarded, it can't seem to release movies globally on the same day. so when we're(US) getting it on dvd, other places are just getting it in the theater. with region codes, it prevents them from simply getting an american dvd, thus cutting into studio profits. the problem is that we are a global ecomony and these
kinds of practices(i would also throw false scarcity(having a digital movie go out of print, when they could just sell you an .iso download, instead of having it not available at all) are ridiculous.
word.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Mar 2008 @ 18:51

2214.3.2008 18:50

the high streaming networks that you are talking about surely will come at a price. already TimeWarner offers several different levels, all of which carry their own price. i think their high line is something around 50 or 60 dollars/mo.

i don't see VOD making their way to the masses for some time.

just like arguments about BR and price, the same can and will be mentioned for VOD. ISPs will have to adjust their prices accordingly with respect to rising oil prices and the current state of our economy. how do they you think cables get laid down/serviced from point A to B? how does TimeWarner or your local carrier get around?

at $60/mo, people will be shelling out 720$/yr for the higher speeds with todays prices. if you look at a given time period that is a lot of dough.

certainly one will be able to get connected for a price much lower than $60/mo but then again that said person probably won't be getting too many VOD...or it'll just take a boat load of time.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Mar 2008 @ 18:52

2315.3.2008 18:54
blueroad
Inactive

welp first let me just say i love it when titles like this are on afterdawn.its amazing how heated people get over 2 silly formats that we knew one would eventually win this war. though im pretty sure we all knew it wasnt going to be over when 1 format will be put to rest.so blu ray one...big godam deal...all this really means is that its now totally safe to buy a PS3...not that its worth the money as the PS3 has no chip out as of late but at least its the safest console.
i just wanted to refer to the idiot who said it doesnt matter if a format is region free or not.listen you little insolent piece of ****
I live in israel. most movies are imported from the US over here and it takes few months for a movie to hit the theatres here and by that time the dvd of the movie is aleady out in the US.i dont know if your tech savvy or not but let me give u a little perspective.if a dvd costs say 30$ in the US then it will cost 62.5$ in here. crazy isnt it? a 200% increase of the price...thats the idiotic reality of our world...now imagine region free for a sec...people just order the dvd from amazon and the cost+shipment cost will be less then the price here! a dvd would cost 45$ from amazon wen the movie comes out ! that is what the difference of region free means moron...do us all a favor and let your parents tolerate your pressence cause they have to we dont.

2415.3.2008 19:02

Originally posted by blueroad :
i just wanted to refer to the idiot who said it doesnt matter if a format is region free or not.listen you little insolent piece of ****
Please observe Rule 6.


2516.3.2008 5:27

Originally posted by A_Klingon:
Good point.

The smaller screens often have only 720p native resolution, I am discovering.

This does qualify as real HD, if not up to 1080p status, but you're right - 720p is still better than SD DVD, and how many will be able to discern any meaningful differences on a smaller screen?
Yes, 720p is signifigantly better than SD DVD (480p). Let's compare the amount of pixels on the screen to give a clearer perspective...

480p (720 x 480) = 345,600
720p (1280 x 720) = 921,600
1080p (1920 x 1080) = 2,073,600

So, as you can see 720p offers approximately 3 times the amount of detail over regular DVD's (480p).

1080p (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) offers almost 6 times the amount of detail over SD DVD (480p).


I would say that for CRT's and very small LCD screens that anything above SD (480p) wont really offer any substantial benefits.

For LCD's and Plasma's up to about 37", 720p should be all that is needed.

Anything 42" and above is where 1080p starts to show it's true form.

2616.3.2008 9:49

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Klingon:
Good point.

The smaller screens often have only 720p native resolution, I am discovering.

This does qualify as real HD, if not up to 1080p status, but you're right - 720p is still better than SD DVD, and how many will be able to discern any meaningful differences on a smaller screen?
Yes, 720p is signifigantly better than SD DVD (480p). Let's compare the amount of pixels on the screen to give a clearer perspective...

480p (720 x 480) = 345,600
720p (1280 x 720) = 921,600
1080p (1920 x 1080) = 2,073,600

So, as you can see 720p offers approximately 3 times the amount of detail over regular DVD's (480p).

1080p (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) offers almost 6 times the amount of detail over SD DVD (480p).


I would say that for CRT's and very small LCD screens that anything above SD (480p) wont really offer any substantial benefits.

For LCD's and Plasma's up to about 37", 720p should be all that is needed.

Anything 42" and above is where 1080p starts to show it's true form.

You missed out us in PAL land where we have the better SD of 576p (720 x 576 = 414720)

Also most LCD/plasma's are 720p(ish) so even if they are 42" or more feeding 1080p to them is a wast of time so what you need is a full HD (1080p) large screen to see any benefits which unfortunately most people don't have.

Coming back to Toshiba, what they could do, if they really wanted to put the cat among the pigeons, is that as Sony aren't playing ball with China Toshiba could license HD DVD at a ridiculously low cost to Chinese companies. China's own HD format I believe is in a bit of a stalemate so if they could be handed the technology that works to produce players (and maybe more importantly recorders) for their own market and then the rest of the world...now that would be interesting (no I'm not a fanboy nor do I have either format)

If you're interested here's a little article about Sony's 'empiric victory' http://gizmodo.com/366260/whole-blu-worl...loody-aftermath

2716.3.2008 13:15

[From Ryu77]:

Quote:
I would say that for CRT's and very small LCD screens that anything above SD (480p) wont really offer any substantial benefits.

For LCD's and Plasma's up to about 37", 720p should be all that is needed.
For now, I believe I am probably going to wind up with a smaller, more affordable 720p screen, at least for the interim. I will be quite happy with it, I'm certain, because to tell you the truth, I haven't even *seen* 720p yet.

Even ran out and bought a $32 Blu-Ray title & HDMI cable the other day. (And I don't even have a BR player yet!) :-P

2816.3.2008 16:47

Originally posted by unicus:
You missed out us in PAL land where we have the better SD of 576p (720 x 576 = 414720)
unicus, I am from PAL land (Australia). I left it out because 90% of people in the English forums here at AfterDawn are from the USA. Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally posted by unicus:
Also most LCD/plasma's are 720p(ish) so even if they are 42" or more feeding 1080p to them is a wast of time so what you need is a full HD (1080p) large screen to see any benefits which unfortunately most people don't have.
That's not entirely true. Many, if not most 42"+ LCD & Plasma TV's manufactured today are 1080p. For the the TV's that are only 720p, as already stated 720p is much better than SD 480p/576p. Feeding a 1080p source to a 720p panel, simply gets displayed at 720p.

I guess I must fit into the minority category that you mentioned as I have a 46" 1080p LCD. :-P
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Mar 2008 @ 16:58

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

Comments have been disabled for this article.

News archive