AfterDawn: Tech news

Alcatel-Lucent sues Microsoft over Xbox patent

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 23 Apr 2008 16:45 User comments (29)

Alcatel-Lucent sues Microsoft over Xbox patent Alcatel-Lucent has begun court proceedings for its lawsuit against Microsoft, complaining that Microsoft's Xbox game systems violates one of the company's 1993 patents "relating to the code for generating video frames."
The partnership says it plans to demand $1.50 USD for "every alleged misuse of the patent" but it is not clear what is considered a misuse. At worst, the suit could apply to all Xboxs and Xbox 360s ever sold.

Microsoft has so far disputed the claims and also says "that four fifths of the claim applies to video frames in Windows Media Player, which is available as a separate, free download and so wouldn't generate royalties for Alcatel-Lucent."

Alcatel-Lucent began its set of lawsuits in 2002 but had them split up and separated by technologies. In 2003, the company won a $1.5 billion USD verdict from MP3 audio patents but the verdict was overturned this year. Earlier this month however, the company won $368 million USD from Microsoft over patents relating to touchscreen technology.

In response to the suits, Microsoft has filed a countersuit accusing Alcatel-Lucent "of violating nine patents relating to interfaces and messages on both computers and fax machines."

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29 user comments

123.4.2008 16:54

Just another leech trying to get money from a successfully console maker.You figure they would file this when XBOX came out.

223.4.2008 17:09

Originally posted by NexGen76:
Just another leech trying to get money from a successfully console maker.You figure they would file this when XBOX came out.
They will probably just settle out of court the way they did with the rumble feature in the controller. It would save them money in the long run. Actel-Lucent is probably betting on this as well. I'm wondering how legit this suit is as I am not able to personally analyze the frame rate systems on the 360 to compare to the patent (I doubt anyone here really can), Maybe thats why it took so long to file the suit.. they may have had extensive testing. However, with all the sue-happy people in the world.. who knows.

323.4.2008 18:05
tripplite
Inactive

Quote:
Just another leech trying to get money from a successfully console maker.You figure they would file this when XBOX came out.

tv, the telephone, just about all movie effects, radar and dozen and upon dozen of major technology breakthroughs occur at lucent......recently they changed their name and ownership has changed but the same people still work there, these guys are GENIUS!
they even have a few old dudes from the c++ project lurking around there, now what are you saying?????? these honest, hardworking creators of our modern day technology are trying to steel some money??? no if they say its violating one of its patients then it is,


-tripplite
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Apr 2008 @ 18:33

423.4.2008 19:23

trip, radar was discovered in britian in the 1930's & helped defeat the luftwaffe during the battle of britain 1940

523.4.2008 20:53
tripplite
Inactive

Quote:
trip, radar was discovered in britian in the 1930's & helped defeat the luftwaffe during the battle of britain 1940

HA HA! shamed my dear friend, you have been shamed:P

it was built in New jersey, LOL right?
built by lucent laboratory (at the time it was called Bell labs) it was shipped out to the coast of england, now i understand that radar was theorized around the globe, however the ones used by the British to intercept fighters across the English channel were built in NJ and were (and still are) accredited to be the first radars designed and built

the brits built nor researched in radar tech.....all us loverboys in NJ;)

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/colle...d=3457008&lid=1
=================================
lucent = Bell Labs

about a year ago bell labs became
part of Alcatel-Lucent, same people different name that all......

and so my dear friend i can finally say i pwned u!
maybe not with xp knowledge, but heck history counts!

-tripplite
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Apr 2008 @ 21:03


623.4.2008 21:31

well, tripplite, I have to say you are wrong there. Germans and British were way ahead of the US. The British first theorized it, but the German Heinrich Hertz (after whom the "hertz" is named) was the first to actually detect radio waves' ability to go through some objects and bounce off others.

723.4.2008 22:35
tripplite
Inactive

Quote:
The British first theorized it, but the German Heinrich Hertz (after whom the "hertz" is named) was the first to actually detect radio waves' ability to go through some objects and bounce off others.

i said
Quote:
now i understand that radar was theorized around the globe,

bell labs made it, brits used it:P


823.4.2008 23:52

hey, this is probably the only way this company is still alive.

They pull fraud moves like this

924.4.2008 1:19

Originally posted by pwhite23:
hey, this is probably the only way this company is still alive.

They pull fraud moves like this
In case you didn't know it this company "manufactures" a lot of the equipment used in "networks" today. Hence if they weren't around then maybe your post doesn't make it to this forum.
As for this lawsuit I love it when the big boys fight amongst themselves. It just goes to show greed know no bounds and can be applied to either side in this case.

1024.4.2008 10:20

tripplite
gaaa I only remember half of my history channle, post us noobs some links to prove uuu is right ....we needs to read more :X

1124.4.2008 12:03

trip, the only reason the americans built it was because the british manufacturing industry was stretched to the limit producing war materials. mass production of the radar units was done in the states but most of the important designs of the radar was done in the uk.

1224.4.2008 12:27

Quote:
Several inventors, scientists, and engineers contributed to the development of radar. The first to use radio waves to detect "the presence of distant metallic objects" was Christian Hülsmeyer, who in 1904 demonstrated the feasibility of detecting the presence of a ship in dense fog, but not its distance.[2][3] He received Reichspatent Nr. 165546[4] for his pre-radar device in April 1904, and later patent 169154[5] for a related amendment for ranging. He also received a patent [6] in England for his telemobiloscope on September 22, 1904.[2][7]

Nikola Tesla, in August 1917, first established principles regarding frequency and power level for the first primitive radar units.[8] He stated, "[...] by their [standing electromagnetic waves] use we may produce at will, from a sending station, an electrical effect in any particular region of the globe; [with which] we may determine the relative position or course of a moving object, such as a vessel at sea, the distance traversed by the same, or its speed."

Before the Second World War, developments by the Americans (Dr. Robert M. Page tested the first monopulse radar in 1934),[9] the Germans, the French (French Patent n° 788795 in 1934)[10][11] and mainly the British who were the first to fully exploit it as a defence against aircraft attack (British Patent GB593017 by Robert Watson-Watt in 1935)[11][12][13] led to the first real radars. Hungarian Zoltán Bay produced a working model by 1936 at the Tungsram laboratory in the same vein.

In 1934, Émile Girardeau, working with the first French radar systems, stated he was building radar systems "conceived according to the principles stated by Tesla". [1]

The war precipitated research to find better resolution, more portability and more features for the new defence technology. Post-war years have seen the use of radar in fields as diverse as air traffic control, weather monitoring, astrometry and road speed control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar


1324.4.2008 19:39
tripplite
Inactive

Quote:
tripplite
gaaa I only remember half of my history channle, post us noobs some links

strait up man i posted before!
http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/colle...d=3457008&lid=1
............
Quote:
When World War II came, Bell Labs invented or improved numerous military systems, such as the two-way radio, proximity fuses, semiconductor devices, radar, sonar, computers, the “bazooka,” and the first encrypted communications systems.
now i cant seem to find to much more, ......no doubt Britain's industry was strained, i believe from time to time Churchill was making personal phone calls begging for supplies......


1424.4.2008 19:46

Originally posted by tripplite:
Quote:
tripplite
gaaa I only remember half of my history channle, post us noobs some links

strait up man i posted before!
http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/colle...d=3457008&lid=1
............
Quote:
When World War II came, Bell Labs invented or improved numerous military systems, such as the two-way radio, proximity fuses, semiconductor devices, radar, sonar, computers, the “bazooka,” and the first encrypted communications systems.
now i cant seem to find to much more, ......no doubt Britain's industry was strained, i believe from time to time Churchill was making personal phone calls begging for supplies......
from the wiki page it started in Britain came over to the US ,Euro(franch and germany,ect improved it) came back over ot the US and then finished off by Britain.

RDF the beginnings of RADAR started in Britain,and was polished to a whole through the efforts of the US and others, never think the world is so large they can learn from what each do,even back then.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1524.4.2008 20:21

Alcatel-Lucent is a French company. We use their product at my job. I am not sure when their started with business but i can find out because we have huge contracts with them for this services.

1624.4.2008 22:42

i worked for alcatel for about 2 weeks as a temp back in the early mid 90's til the ttc(toronto transit commission) went on strike so had no way of getting to work. lost that job & they had a fire about 6 months later.

1724.4.2008 22:57
varnull
Inactive

http://www.design-technology.info/inventors/page28.htm

The first significant mention is as an annoyance during short wave trials by the Marconi company in 1922 when they were trying to cure "flutter" caused by passing aircraft from nearby Croydon airfield which were messing up their signal strength readings. Interestingly AF Wilkins was involved with these trials as a senior technician for the Marconi co.. (source.. Wireless World 7/1946)

Americans don't invent everything... and all the French have ever invented is dvd drives that don't play dvd's, and giant cigar cutters.

Alcatel make nasty cheap phones... very satisfying to hit with a large hammer ;).. better off out of there ddp.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Apr 2008 @ 23:04

1824.4.2008 23:14

the division of the company i worked at was making equipment for subways. i was working at scientific atlanta in toronto when alcatel had the fire. any time i left a company under bad circumstances, that campany had something bad happen to it. happened 4 times, the last being celistica.

1925.4.2008 0:06

@ddp
ah ddp no offense I'm just glad you don't work for the same company I do.... I need my job as "fun" as it is.
@spydah
I don't know much about Alcatel but I do know that Lucent was Bell labs back in the day when ma bell existed in the US. Lots of phone equipment rolled out of that outfit! They "merged" (meaning alcatel bought lucent) back in 2006 if I remember correctly.
@locoeng
Beat me to the punch on the radar thing. Ever read anything on Tesla? Genius Genius Genius.

2025.4.2008 0:21

I would bet on Lucent-Alcatel. Microsoft is in the habit of "piracy". The efforts of the original patent holder to trace this is considered to be "reverse engineering" and subject to reverse patent suit.

Just think of Stacker and what happened to them. I also came across a number of "public domain" dos utilities that found their way into dos 6.x in slightly modifed version & "PATENTED".

I hope & pray M$ get taken to the cleaners.

On the other hand I would not be surprised to find some official making some "stupid" statement that can render the whole trial/judgment null and void as was the case in M$ breakup case.

2125.4.2008 0:28

"Microsoft has so far disputed the claims and also says "that four fifths of the claim applies to video frames in Windows Media Player, which is available as a separate, free download and so wouldn't generate royalties for Alcatel-Lucent."

So M$ thinks it is smart. Do they expect us to believe that they have incorporated this technology only in the Free Download Version and not in the one that is included in the Xp/Vista os. Hah!!!

2225.4.2008 3:02

The 360 is a piece of junk of a console anyway! I had wanted one for soooo long and when I finally got my first one about 7 weeks ago I was totally devastated! The workmanship just lacks the flair and polish of their competitors' products. There's nothing that resembles the level of quality I expected. The DVD drive is loud as f#ck and it gets quite hot. The whole thing just seems rushed. The thing is I thought I was just unlucky and got a dud but when I bought my next two consoles 3-6 weeks later respectively I resigned to the fact that no matter when it was manufactured and what components it had it would still suffer from the same annoying issues.

M$ is notorious for stealing others' great ideas and incorporating them into shoddy products that sell 20x more than the originators' then pays them off with "out of court settlements". And they get away with it time after time cos we as consumers love buying M$ products, though I'll admit sometimes it seems like we don't have a choice.

M$ has always been a company that practices dirty business tactics, and no amount of biting back is gonna bring them down. Only a worldwide boycott of their products would have any significant impact.

2325.4.2008 8:15

M$ have admitted to using the technology so they are guilty of breaching the patent law. As for the leech comment? not so. Somebody works hard on an idea/concept and the big guys with lots of cash use the idea for free to get even richer. Its only fair that M$ pay up.

2425.4.2008 9:07

Originally posted by NexGen76:
Just another leech trying to get money from a successfully console maker.You figure they would file this when XBOX came out.
WOW do you have it wrong that's like saying the Clinton's are Angel's. MS's whole history is one of leeching (thief) from other companies, they are corporate pirates.

If Lucent has a patient and it is violated how is that leeching, quite the opposite? It is this kind of thinking why the world is so screwed up these days.

2526.4.2008 0:53
varnull
Inactive

The trouble with all this patent stuff is the way (In the USA) the patent office is corrupt. A good example is the Thomson mp3 patents fiasco.. They didn't invent the technology or the format.
M$ think they hold valid patents on certain things that existed way before they did.. No wonder they don't want to try enforcing them.. sco-unix lurk in the shadows of window manager patents.
While businesses are allowed to abuse the patent system these stupid cases will always arise.. That's why those of us with any sense demand that ALL standard formats should be open and free. Any that are not should be left on the shelf or embedded in hardware where they can't have any effect on the end user.

I'm still thinking about patenting the human reproductive cycle... Gates move over. I can patent stuff I haven't invented too.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Apr 2008 @ 0:55

2626.4.2008 10:31
v965hdss
Inactive

hope they screw microsoft into the ground

2726.4.2008 17:38
BellCAMan
Inactive

hi guys,

I worked for the TTC and now for Bell Canada. We use acatel/lucent all the time at work. Nortel is our main contributor but sometimes we use outside sources. Reliable, innovative and always ahead of everyone else. would not doubt the comments about the Bell Lab inventing things first, as we still have a Bell/Northern Research Lab here just outside of TO.

Cheers.

2826.4.2008 17:58
varnull
Inactive

Nobody said bell labs don't invent things.. just that the example was flawed. ;) As a few of us remember packard-bell were very early players in the desktop pc game.

2929.4.2008 20:07

I hate to have to pay for a spec (standard) or royalties to produce something because I don't posses the original technology but that is the way it needs to be unfortunately.

Sure companies violate trade marks, registration, patents and so on but when they do they take a chance of being busted and paying big penalties. Companies spend lots of monies in research & design (R&D) and there needs to be some compensation for their time, effort, and ingenuity.

As to open source and standards, there doesn't seem to be good standards in open source everyone does their own thing. Documentation and support is horrible Linux is a prime example of this. Now true if you look at Microsquish who should have good standards but you'll find that they don't, however they do document their product pretty well even though. Microsquish's problem is they are too big and have very poor management. But if you look at engineering firms like Lucent you will find very good standards and principles as they are a disciplined company.

So in summary I disagree with your socialistic view at how things should be but that's not to say I don't like open source even though it has its problems it has many positives as well.

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