AfterDawn: Tech news

GTA IV to have SecuROM DRM

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 30 Nov 2008 2:02 User comments (55)

GTA IV to have SecuROM DRM Fans patiently waiting the launch of the PC version of the blockbuster smash hit GTA IV may be disappointed today to learn that the game will launch with SecuROM 7 DRM, the brutal DRM that tarnished the release of Bioshock and Spore in the last year.
During an interview with IGN, game publisher Rockstar explained its rationale for adding the DRM saying "we invest a considerable amount of time and effort to release each title, and employ a large number of people in the process. Having copy protection allows us to protect the integrity or our titles and future investments… SecuROM is the most effective form of disc based copy protection and allows us to manage authenticity on a global level for Grand Theft Auto IV."

Making it different than past releases however, is the fact that you can install the game as many times as you want, on any amount of PCs. You will need to activate the game online, however, as well as keep Disc 1 in your drive at all times to play the game. If you happen to upgrade your motherboard or even videocard, the game will need to be reactivated.

As with all games that come with SecuROM, Rockstar notes you will not be able to remove the DRM completely from the PC, even after an uninstall. "Some traces will remain," says the developer, however "we are currently working with SecuROM to post information on our support pages regarding how to remove these inactive traces of the program for users who wish to do so."

Rockstar also noted that all versions of the game will include the DRM, including the online downloads from Steam.

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55 user comments

130.11.2008 2:30
jony218
Inactive

I still have punkbusterA running on my computer for the past year, following all the directions to remove it, it's still there loading up everytime I start my computer, even when I remove the original game that installed it. This GTA IV game is definitely not going into my computer with this DRM trojan/rootkit (which is what it really is) . You remove the game the DRM remains hidden and is next to impossible to remove. At least they are honest to state that removing the game won't remove the DRM, I'm sure the packaging won't mention that part.

230.11.2008 2:37

I like this part....

As with all games that come with SecuROM, Rockstar notes you will not be able to remove the DRM completely from the PC, even after an uninstall. "Some traces will remain," says the developer, however "we are currently working with SecuROM to post information on our support pages regarding how to remove these inactive traces of the program for users who wish to do so."

Who in there right mind would wont to purchase crap like this it makes ppl want to download a cracked/pirated copy with no drm on it. Its funny how they are pushing consumers away tryin to find a way to fight illegal copies from being used. Oh well i've played GTA4 wasnt all that anyways.

330.11.2008 2:51

Maybe this is just me but i did not expect a company like Rockstar to ever get involved with crap like this.
:S

430.11.2008 3:36

Allowing as many activations as you want? Cool, that is how it should be. However, that shouldn't come at the expense of system security.

Having a root-kit type program on your computer seems to practically be a legal trojan horse, in the way it dictates things on your computer and probably "phones home" occasionally without permission.

However, this won't stop pirates and "illegal" no-cd "cracks" from being released so you don't have to have the game in your drive at all times.

Peace

530.11.2008 4:49

They seriously Didn't learn from the last time. I guess they think if they keep pushing it, eventually we will give in? They need to change their attitude about this. The fact that they have to adress this issue every time should tell them we don't want it.

630.11.2008 4:59

I'm against EA and their limited activations, i'm not that bothered about this.

Seems fine to me! Someone should release a Securom Uninstaller.

730.11.2008 7:10

I heard it was going to be a "Game for Windows" so I read if M$ was involved then why wouldn't they put it on here because world of goo didnt have it and was pirated to hell

830.11.2008 10:20

"As with all games that come with SecuROM, Rockstar notes you will not be able to remove the DRM completely from the PC, even after an uninstall."
They misworded that. It should have read : "As with all games that come with SecuROM, this one too will have its DRM broken within days of its release, if not before; thus causing a huge waste of money, time and effort in implementing it."

930.11.2008 11:06

Originally posted by subpopz:
"As with all games that come with SecuROM, Rockstar notes you will not be able to remove the DRM completely from the PC, even after an uninstall."
They misworded that. It should have read : "As with all games that come with SecuROM, this one too will have its DRM broken within days of its release, if not before; thus causing a huge waste of money, time and effort in implementing it."
that's the funniest thing i've read in a while! i agree completely.

1030.11.2008 11:26
susieqbbb
Inactive

HA HA HA

Then we just won't purchase your game then and download patches for it instead to remove the secure rom garbage so have fun.

1130.11.2008 12:01

So let me get this right... I buy it...I install it I can not remove it it leads to system instability I have to reinstall my OS then I have to rebuy the game since it says I no longer won it due to reinstalling it to much..... can I have 10 of these?

1230.11.2008 12:09

I see i lot of people complaining but probably have of them were going to download it cracked anyways. This type of drm sucks for people that get games legally but they have to try to battle piracy somehow.

1330.11.2008 12:13

I am not much of a gamer and would like to ask a question about this root kit fiasco.
For those wishing to remove the rootkit without re-installing their os, would it not be easier to install a virtual machine ( like vmware ) load an image of a microshaft os and play your game, and when your finished playing just power off the os and return to your clean os for daily use?
Just a thought, I know the point is that these games should not come protected in this way, but if it has to be then VM's would be an option to keep your system clean.

1430.11.2008 12:16

Originally posted by embo22000:
I see i lot of people complaining but probably have of them were going to download it cracked anyways. This type of drm sucks for people that get games legally but they have to try to battle piracy somehow.
Attacking the problem with ineptitude will only cause them to waste more money...
--------------------------
joe777
..................V machine has no 3d card/game support.....

1530.11.2008 12:28

Rockstar,sony,apple and RIAA are one the dumbest companies ever. If a person can not learn by their mistakes, then they have problems. They are mentally less-functional. think about it. Know how are they dumb you might ask? Simply they are throwing money away for a futile attempt to protect their mediums via copyprotections. Years ago i read about how blu-ray would have a unbreakable protections AACS (or wathever you spell that damn name) before the format was released. Sony was bragging that it was unbreakable for 10 years.. how ironic, what form of stupidity is being shown is just childish the protection was quickly broke. Sony underestimated pirates seriously. They can make plasma tvs, bluray players, car audio systems yet they can not understand simple facts like that copyprotections will be broken more quickly than you can imagine. Same with rockstar, thinking that some 10 or 15 people that developed some cryptographic standard will deter pirates that number millions and millions is stupid. how stupid people can get.

1630.11.2008 12:30

Originally posted by joe777:
I am not much of a gamer and would like to ask a question about this root kit fiasco.
For those wishing to remove the rootkit without re-installing their os, would it not be easier to install a virtual machine ( like vmware ) load an image of a microshaft os and play your game, and when your finished playing just power off the os and return to your clean os for daily use?
Just a thought, I know the point is that these games should not come protected in this way, but if it has to be then VM's would be an option to keep your system clean.
if you have to go through all these extra steps to play this legit game then why not just play the pirated one ?

1730.11.2008 13:29
lynchGOP
Inactive

Originally posted by jony218:
I still have punkbusterA running on my computer for the past year, following all the directions to remove it, it's still there loading up everytime I start my computer, even when I remove the original game that installed it. This GTA IV game is definitely not going into my computer with this DRM trojan/rootkit (which is what it really is) . You remove the game the DRM remains hidden and is next to impossible to remove. At least they are honest to state that removing the game won't remove the DRM, I'm sure the packaging won't mention that part.

1830.11.2008 13:35
lynchGOP
Inactive

Originally posted by jony218:
I still have punkbusterA running on my computer for the past year, following all the directions to remove it, it's still there loading up everytime I start my computer, even when I remove the original game that installed it. This GTA IV game is definitely not going into my computer with this DRM trojan/rootkit (which is what it really is) . You remove the game the DRM remains hidden and is next to impossible to remove. At least they are honest to state that removing the game won't remove the DRM, I'm sure the packaging won't mention that part.

Oh give me a break!!!!

It's neurotic, paranoid, conspiracy theorists like you that give all us good decision makers a bad name.............and really the main reason why you should never be behind the big red button that decides the fate of us all.

Trojan/rootkit my ass!!! Trojans are meant to monitor you and track you and steal your stuff. Get a clue, or at least use common sense. There is no reason on GOD's green earth why a game developer would be interested in what you are doing. Now, I'm one that even believes that grocery store 'discount cards' (i.e. 'preferred cards') are meant to track you and your alcohol purchases but now you're just showing how ridiculous you are.

Good for them for putting secureROM on this. I have jacked many games and there are many more I'm sure I will BUT, BUT there are many that I buy too because I'm not a useless leach trying to get everything for free using the lame ass excuse that most morons use "If they didn't develop crap then I'd buy this"; same goes for movies.

Though the video card change and needing to re-register is crazy ass B.S.

And for all you "Rootkit" freaks (I hate true "rootkits" too), this is not a rootkit per se, it's a mere trace amount of software left behind assuming that those who enjoy this game will enjoy (legitimately) others with the same DRM. So if you are paranoid about this then you have clearly identified yourself as a thief leacher who tries to steal everything 'digital' and never pays for anything. We honest people call you LOSERS and WASTES OF LIFE and NON-CONTRIBUTORS TO SOCIETY...............kinda like welfare recipients.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Nov 2008 @ 13:40

1930.11.2008 13:43
lynchGOP
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
So let me get this right... I buy it...I install it I can not remove it it leads to system instability I have to reinstall my OS then I have to rebuy the game since it says I no longer won it due to reinstalling it to much..... can I have 10 of these?

HA HA HA............an Afterdawn Addict asking a noobie question that could only be expected from someone who just started using computers a month ago. System instability my ass!!!!

2030.11.2008 13:44

Quote:
Originally posted by jony218:
I still have punkbusterA running on my computer for the past year, following all the directions to remove it, it's still there loading up everytime I start my computer, even when I remove the original game that installed it. This GTA IV game is definitely not going into my computer with this DRM trojan/rootkit (which is what it really is) . You remove the game the DRM remains hidden and is next to impossible to remove. At least they are honest to state that removing the game won't remove the DRM, I'm sure the packaging won't mention that part.

Oh give me a break!!!!

It's neurotic, paranoid, conspiracy theorists like you that give all us good decision makers a bad name.............and really the main reason why you should never be behind the big red button that decides the fate of us all.

Trojan/rootkit my ass!!! Trojans are meant to monitor you and track you and steal your stuff. Get a clue, or at least use common sense. There is no reason on GOD's green earth why a game developer would be interested in what you are doing. Now, I'm one that even believes that grocery store 'discount cards' (i.e. 'preferred cards') are meant to track you and your alcohol purchases but now you're just showing how ridiculous you are.

Good for them for putting secureROM on this. I have jacked many games and there are many more I'm sure I will BUT, BUT there are many that I buy too because I'm not a useless leach trying to get everything for free using the lame ass excuse that most morons use "If they didn't develop crap then I'd buy this"; same goes for movies.

Though the video card change and needing to re-register is crazy ass B.S.

And for all you "Rootkit" freaks (I hate true "rootkits" too), this is not a rootkit per se, it's a mere trace amount of software left behind assuming that those who enjoy this game will enjoy (legitimately) others with the same DRM. So if you are paranoid about this then you have clearly identified yourself as a thief leacher who tries to steal everything 'digital' and never pays for anything. We honest people call you LOSERS and WASTES OF LIFE and NON-CONTRIBUTORS TO SOCIETY...............kinda like welfare recipients.
nice to tell us? i agree with lynchGOP, i cant beleve a forum member is supporting those bastards.

2130.11.2008 13:50

Sarcasm motherfcker do you understand it? :P

Anyway yes DRM is Trojan like when it gathers statistics for toehrs to sell and yes the very definition of a rootkit is something that is installed with something else that cannot be uninstalled easily and is generally hidden from experienced PC users.

So yes sicrom 7 is very much virus and rootkit like, because one has lil control over it at best its gray ware no normal PC user would want..

2230.11.2008 14:05

I have one question though, how exactly will the activation procedure occur? I know how it functions, but in terms of activation. Will we need to use a product key similar to what microsoft does or is the key hidden within each disc itself? We all know that people create key generators and I wouldn't want to one of those people who bought a legit copy and got stuck with a compromised game just because someone already activated my disc using a random code. I'm sticking to my console version. (Sarcastic tone) Thank you Rockstar for making all of us gamers happy. PC games do not seem too appealing now a days due to all of this DRM crap. At least the consoles for now are picking up the slack.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Nov 2008 @ 14:09

2330.11.2008 14:11
lynchGOP
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Sarcasm motherfcker do you understand it? :P

Anyway yes DRM is Trojan like when it gathers statistics for toehrs to sell and yes the very definition of a rootkit is something that is installed with something else that cannot be uninstalled easily and is generally hidden from experienced PC users.

So yes sicrom 7 is very much virus and rootkit like, because one has lil control over it at best its gray ware no normal PC user would want..

Please..........stop commenting while you're ahead. I'm feeling not only sorry for you and your lack of insight but also feeling embarrassed for you. Viruses serve two purposes and two only: 1. to destroy your data or 2. to steal. SecureROM is not going to steal anything. Like I said, it's there for future installations of other games that use the same tech. Start paying for your stuff and stop leaching and stealing and you'll be ok.

Kinda like what most people say about gov't policies like the Patriot ACT. "If you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about"..........CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarcasm???

Sar-cas-m????

You must be a Brit. HA HA HA

2430.11.2008 14:21
fgamer
Inactive

Damnit, and I was actually gonna buy this game, I think I'll download it now and use a no-cd crack. I refuse to financially support companies that are willing to stay behind these trojan horse DRM's.

2530.11.2008 14:36

FWIW, I recall Rockstar dev saying that they put all manner of triggers in the game and disc checks (or something akin) so that if youre playing a cracked copy (even a store bought copy with a downloaded crack) then it will break the game.

Um..I think another company tried this with a game called "Titan Quest", and now that company is out of business. Besides, groups like Reloaded, Razor, Vitality, etc have testers to weed out this sort of thing.

Did SecuROM work for Mass Effect, Red Alert 2, Spore, Warhead, etc??

At any rate I would be tempted to download it out of pure SPITE. To devs: don't drop attitude on your fans. We are the ones who put you into business, and we can take you out. Ask Iron Lore Entertainment.

2630.11.2008 14:56

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Sarcasm motherfcker do you understand it? :P

Anyway yes DRM is Trojan like when it gathers statistics for toehrs to sell and yes the very definition of a rootkit is something that is installed with something else that cannot be uninstalled easily and is generally hidden from experienced PC users.

So yes sicrom 7 is very much virus and rootkit like, because one has lil control over it at best its gray ware no normal PC user would want..
dude on a forum its hard to know whether you are sarcastic or not. and stop with your personal attacks.

2730.11.2008 15:30

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Sarcasm motherfcker do you understand it? :P

Anyway yes DRM is Trojan like when it gathers statistics for toehrs to sell and yes the very definition of a rootkit is something that is installed with something else that cannot be uninstalled easily and is generally hidden from experienced PC users.

So yes sicrom 7 is very much virus and rootkit like, because one has lil control over it at best its gray ware no normal PC user would want..
dude on a forum its hard to know whether you are sarcastic or not. and stop with your personal attacks.
Its not sarcasm/humor if its serious business and the net is always serious business....*rolls eyes*

Duuuddeeeee its not a motherfcking personal attack its snakes on a motherfcking plane :P

And I think that joke died a couple years ago to .....oh fck..... LOL

2830.11.2008 15:39

If it damages your system then send them a summons to court or dont by it.You do have rights!.

2930.11.2008 15:42

Originally posted by wiimatrix:
If it damages your system then send them a summons to court or dont by it.You do have rights!.

o and "made to be broken" springs to mind

3030.11.2008 18:04

@lynchGOP
Knock off - if you can't post w/o the insults then don't post - very simple. Knock the back to back posts too - post padded.






Forum Rules
Do this before posting
Do not click this link...

3130.11.2008 19:02

So this has securom, but you get unlimited activations? I just don't see what the problem is with this.

Now there's still traces of securom left on your pc after you uninstall this game, but to be honest, I really don't give a crap. It's not gonna affect the lack of stability that already exists in windows.

3230.11.2008 21:35
david89
Inactive

nonething really new hear you knew they would try add some kind of drm to it and honestly i played this game on xbox360 and hated it it wasn't as good as older GTA games that where on ps2 i didn't like controls etc

331.12.2008 3:50

I really do not understand why they need the rootkit part of it make it a normal install that checks for the black listed programs and if or part of it is not installed then the game wont work there is no need to to make this thing a nightmare.

341.12.2008 4:10

These companies are trying to shape the market into a dead end, where only their word (ultimate profit) goes.

I never comment on how poor demos are as they are free, I usualy can tell how poor games are but play the demo to pass time. If we comment on how poor these demos are, they'll blame the fact we tried it before purchase. They'll then go back to scamming us, no try before you by and no refunds.

It's been stated before that many companies (namely EA) prefer the console market (closed (per say hardware), all systems are more or less the same hardware/software, easier to develop (should mean less patches, but meh!!).

But most of all due to hardware restrictions no serials, so now they have more control. There are several rumours about how these companies will force us into purchasing new game only and destroy rentals/pre owned. Personally I think they're still fighting a losing battle.

351.12.2008 6:48

By just pirating the game you are still supporting them, because now they have statistics which they can employ to pursue there evil plans to get additional plans that would restrict us even more. The best solution would be to boycott them completely and not use there games.

If they have to place these measures, then they don't even the respect of me touching there infested games.

361.12.2008 12:31

I miss the simple days of buying a game, ripping it, shelving it for safe keeping and playing with a crack or virtual drive. Uh oh....did I just incriminate myself? What's the statute of limitations on this stuff? I'd better burn my copy of Sands of Time and make sure the retail box is on my shelf for all to see.

They have every right to choose this type of DRM, but I have every right to not want any part of it. I really hate when people are called thieves just for complaining about DRM. As a consumer, I have a hard time supporting a company that sells me something, but then tells me that I can't do whatever I want with it without becoming a "thief". Unfortunately, they all do nowadays. So my poison is console gaming anyways. I'm sick of what the industry has done to PC gaming. Honest consumers are just casualties of a never-ending, up-hill, losing battle with release groups. But, hey, one can argue that DRM is good for the economy. For every dev that loses a job due to "piracy", a DRM lackey is hired.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 Dec 2008 @ 12:33

371.12.2008 18:21
LILBUCK
Inactive

Grand Theft Auto IV is cracked on demonoid and piratebay, 100% working.......so much for SecuROM. Pirates will always win.

381.12.2008 18:31

i WILL always try a product before i spend my money on it.
if i like the product, i WILL buy it.
really all that has changed is.. some products that i like and would like to buy, now contain things that are not very friendly to my environment. i can get them with that bad part removed, so its common sense that im going to get it without the bad stuff.
the people that make the bad part of the product know this and will continue to make more bad stuff because it makes them more and more money .
furthermore it forces more people to consoles and away from the thing all establishments fear. the uncontrollable internet. they get you on consoles your back in your boxes limited to what they allow you to see.
call me thief all you like, i call you oppressor!

392.12.2008 11:20
lynchg0p
Inactive

Originally posted by binkie7:
@lynchGOP
Knock off - if you can't post w/o the insults then don't post - very simple. Knock the back to back posts too - post padded.
You asked not to repeat post and to quit with insults and so it was done and then you ban anyway...........Tell me..........where is the sense in that?? Why bother "asking" when you're just going to ban regardless?

Besides the "insults" were minor and subtle and were directed to those who rampantly steal and leach off society. Seeing that Afterdawn used to be a pirating site and only technically isn't anymore is because of Finnish law (which is not understood since your servers are in L.A. California) I guess belittleing those who rampantly steal and justify their doing so is condoned by Afterdawn. My attacks only are directed to those that leach off society and never contribute back. Does Afterdawn honestly support theivery and unconditional, rampant stealing and then the meritless justification of it so much that you ban people who MILDLY get on other people's backs??? Please clarify and hopefully you will defend yourself and your site.

402.12.2008 11:34

lynchGOP

Leech from society now? The people "US" pay for everything there is no leeching when in the end you are the grease that the gears of society runs on and it runs on us all, we buy something and in part keep the momentum going...what a foolish and ignorant statement you have made.

Besides define leech IMO the company's that make low qaulity crap to spam out to the public to gain gross profit to buy laws to further their monopolies so please do a clue please get.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Dec 2008 @ 11:38

412.12.2008 11:41

lynchGOP
by advocating the disgusting "patriot act" YOU are the leech! on peoples human rights and freedom of choice!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Dec 2008 @ 11:41

422.12.2008 11:43
lynchg0p
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
lynchGOP

Leech from society now? The people "US" pay for everything there is no leeching when in the end you are the grease that the gears of society runs on and it runs on us all, we buy something and in part keep the momentum going...what a foolish and ignorant statement you have made.

Besides define leech IMO the company's that make low qaulity crap to spam out to the public to gain gross profit to buy laws to further their monopolies so please do a clue please get.

That was the most ignorant thing I have heard anyone say ever.........other than Al Gore "Inventing the Internet".

You just justified your stealing everything in every way. First, the "momentum" as you put it is only going to keep going if people in the US pay for stuff. Stealing everything stops the momentum.

Second, justifying your thievery but making the old and meritless statement "low quality crap" is sad. If it's low quality then why bother stealing it?

One question Zippy-the-thief. What was the last GAME and MOVIE you actually PURCHASED and from where and how much? Answer this and perhaps you will have cast a LITTLE doubt in the minds of people that work and contribute like me.

432.12.2008 12:01
lynchg0p
Inactive

Originally posted by DRokKer:
lynchGOP
by advocating the disgusting "patriot act" YOU are the leech! on peoples human rights and freedom of choice!
Sad...........the vast majority of the civilised and law-abiding population will overwhelmingly agree that IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

It doesn't spy on RANDOM people
It doesn't invade RANDOM privacy
It doesn't take away RANDOM rights


However it probably does for people like you although it's only meant for terrorism. Are you concerned that your right to make a decision to terrorize is being infringed upon??? Shame, first statement stands. Good people have nothing to worry about.

I'm done with this............off topic completely.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Dec 2008 @ 12:01

442.12.2008 12:08

meh! i wondered how long before he called me a terrorist. As my Grandpa
used to say, you cant educate PORK sonny.

452.12.2008 12:19

Quote:
You just justified your stealing everything in every way. First, the "momentum" as you put it is only going to keep going if people in the US pay for stuff. Stealing everything stops the momentum.
If one doesn't like the direction the machine is going in, then one will probably not want to help it gain momentum. Whether a consumer decides not to buy it, or pirate and delete it, nobody is getting the $$$ for the game. Then it just becomes a matter of getting punished for not playing by the rules. I believe that the reasoning behind increased security is that everyone is going to pirate. Every form of security has been cracked, yet the gaming industry has survived all these years and still makes profits despite "piracy." DRM is not stopping the "pirates." It never has and it never will. If someone wants the game for free, then will find a way. So what good is DRM? All you are telling the honest consumer who has supported you all these years is "don't even think about it thief-to-be."

Proof is needed that over the past 10 years, piracy has stagnated the game industry. Otherwise it's all based on speculation and individual morals. Lift the facade and it starts to look like right vs left.

Maybe I missed it, but where did Zippy state that he steals everything?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Dec 2008 @ 12:23

462.12.2008 13:04

@lynchGOP
Did they let you out for the weekend? If so then the weekend is now finished, so you really should be getting back. Remember anger management club starts at 10am and you already missed the last year, so hurry on now, the bus is coming for you!! toot toot, ah there it is.
Zippy I know its hard but, try not to feed the trolls eh partner, your worth more than that.
Greetz and peace from the P****** of the carribean

472.12.2008 13:42

Quote:
Quote:
You just justified your stealing everything in every way. First, the "momentum" as you put it is only going to keep going if people in the US pay for stuff. Stealing everything stops the momentum.
If one doesn't like the direction the machine is going in, then one will probably not want to help it gain momentum. Whether a consumer decides not to buy it, or pirate and delete it, nobody is getting the $$$ for the game. Then it just becomes a matter of getting punished for not playing by the rules. I believe that the reasoning behind increased security is that everyone is going to pirate. Every form of security has been cracked, yet the gaming industry has survived all these years and still makes profits despite "piracy." DRM is not stopping the "pirates." It never has and it never will. If someone wants the game for free, then will find a way. So what good is DRM? All you are telling the honest consumer who has supported you all these years is "don't even think about it thief-to-be."

Proof is needed that over the past 10 years, piracy has stagnated the game industry. Otherwise it's all based on speculation and individual morals. Lift the facade and it starts to look like right vs left.

Maybe I missed it, but where did Zippy state that he steals everything?
I would say its more due to the emphasis on making money from nothing that corporate loves so much I mean how else can you have a craptacualer app make money if not to sell it to dumber executives...but more so they want to control the nuances of the program the trouble is all they have to do is keep the populace from copying it crackers and the mainstream underground will always be one step ahead of them they are just wasting money on such over the top worthless DRM that only gives someones corporate fck buddy money.

Its not so much about thinking everyone will copy it as it is the precieved losses it entails, if they looked at illicit copies as a part of business and something to not opine over and focus on the anti copy messuers to hassle the clueless average joe copier we all would be better off...well...albeit the DRM providers...


As for stealing everything I value my money so every buck I spend can be equatable to 10 ot 100 bucks for you, I do not have the money ot the time to put with "more for less" or poorly deved highly frustrating 50$ games I just say no more, I spent 80$ on 2 copies of UT3 and Bioshock one for me one for a friend, hell I bought a couple sued games for a friend for Xmas, if FO3 was 30$ I would have bought 2 copies but I'll wait till its priced better try and get it new wholesale on the cheap. Hell this Xmas I just blew 300$ for my comp (new case old one had cooling issues,new mobo old one is acting funny,new CPU fan, zalman all copper FTW, new 3 colored light keyboard)><

Farcry 2 is on my list to get as is Deadspace and I have not even tried it yet....might even tag the newer alone int eh dark game for 10$..I'd so get back into console gaming if they had a full customizable controls... but thats not happening the as the industry is being further pasteurized... oh well I'll stick with PC gaming a few years yet...

Originally posted by joe777:
@lynchGOP
Did they let you out for the weekend? If so then the weekend is now finished, so you really should be getting back. Remember anger management club starts at 10am and you already missed the last year, so hurry on now, the bus is coming for you!! toot toot, ah there it is.
Zippy I know its hard but, try not to feed the trolls eh partner, your worth more than that.
Greetz and peace from the P****** of the carribean

Sorry I be half troll myself mate..I can;t help but feed my kind :P

482.12.2008 17:58

^^^^^ he he he he. You got me there. I surrender (my resignation) :P
No retreat no surrender, as always!!!!!!!

492.12.2008 18:44

Originally posted by joe777:
^^^^^ he he he he. You got me there. I surrender (my resignation) :P
No retreat no surrender, as always!!!!!!!
I be a incoherent intellectual you can only understand me half of the time and when my truths ring most true...be in fear....for you have become crazy too.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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508.12.2008 17:13

Originally posted by lynchg0p:
Sad...........the vast majority of the civilised and law-abiding population will overwhelmingly agree that IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Um, yeah, that's what all the fascists say. Sorry, you still can't cavity-search me without probable cause. Piss off.

More seriously, in the US we have this little thing called a "Constitution", which directly limits the power of anyone, public or private, to conduct ANY kind of search, whether of my home or the contents of my PC, to certain very specific cases. This is NOT one of those cases.

Originally posted by lynchg0p:
It doesn't spy on RANDOM people
It doesn't invade RANDOM privacy
It doesn't take away RANDOM rights

Oh, really? So, DRM that "phones home" with a listing of the contents of your hard drive is A-OK with you, eh? Fool. That's exactly what Sony's little rootkit did, (among other unsavory acts) and it was ruled ILLEGAL in a lawsuit. SecuROM has been implicated with similar behavior.

Originally posted by lynchg0p:
However it probably does for people like you although it's only meant for terrorism. Are you concerned that your right to make a decision to terrorize is being infringed upon??? Shame, first statement stands. Good people have nothing to worry about.[/

I'm done with this............off topic completely.

Say what? Wow, I'm glad you said this in a public forum, so I can prove people like you exist!

SecuROM has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism; it's has EVERYTHING to do with protecting corporate profits. If you disagree with this statement, please enlighten me as to where I can find these gigantic terrorist groups playing GTA IV and Spore. I'm sure Homeland Security will be all ears!

Theft, while illegal, also has nothing directly to do with terrorism, unless it precedes/enables *drum roll* AN ACTUAL ACT OF TERRORISM.

lynchg0p (or whatever username you decide to troll with next), please DON'T stop your wonderful posts. You actually made 5 people in my house laugh themselves into hysterics! I had to convince one of them I didn't post your message myself as a joke; he didn't believe anyone could be such an idiot in real life and still succesfully type.

Finally, many, many people have had issues with SecuROM actually damaging their computer. Yes, actual physical damage; it slams the optical drive's head against the stop repeatedly, potentially eventually misaligning/breaking it. The pirates have no such issue. So, if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, hm? I guess that makes the user who bought the game wrong..?

Sheep.

518.12.2008 17:16

Originally posted by Bozobub:
Originally posted by lynchg0p:
Sad...........the vast majority of the civilised and law-abiding population will overwhelmingly agree that IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Um, yeah, that's what all the fascists say. Sorry, you still can't cavity-search me without probable cause. Piss off.

More seriously, in the US we have this little thing called a "Constitution", which directly limits the power of anyone, public or private, to conduct ANY kind of search, whether of my home or the contents of my PC, to certain very specific cases. This is NOT one of those cases.

Originally posted by lynchg0p:
It doesn't spy on RANDOM people
It doesn't invade RANDOM privacy
It doesn't take away RANDOM rights

Oh, really? So, DRM that "phones home" with a listing of the contents of your hard drive is A-OK with you, eh? Fool. That's exactly what Sony's little rootkit did, (among other unsavory acts) and it was ruled ILLEGAL in a lawsuit. SecuROM has been implicated with similar behavior.

Originally posted by lynchg0p:
However it probably does for people like you although it's only meant for terrorism. Are you concerned that your right to make a decision to terrorize is being infringed upon??? Shame, first statement stands. Good people have nothing to worry about.[/

I'm done with this............off topic completely.

Say what? Wow, I'm glad you said this in a public forum, so I can prove people like you exist!

SecuROM has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism; it's has EVERYTHING to do with protecting corporate profits. If you disagree with this statement, please enlighten me as to where I can find these gigantic terrorist groups playing GTA IV and Spore. I'm sure Homeland Security will be all ears!

Theft, while illegal, also has nothing directly to do with terrorism, unless it precedes/enables *drum roll* AN ACTUAL ACT OF TERRORISM.

lynchg0p (or whatever username you decide to troll with next), please DON'T stop your wonderful posts. You actually made 5 people in my house laugh themselves into hysterics! I had to convince one of them I didn't post your message myself as a joke; he didn't believe anyone could be such an idiot in real life and still succesfully type.

Finally, many, many people have had issues with SecuROM actually damaging their computer. Yes, actual physical damage; it slams the optical drive's head against the stop repeatedly, potentially eventually misaligning/breaking it. The pirates have no such issue. So, if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, hm? I guess that makes the user who bought the game wrong..?

Sheep.
Unless its a laptop or thumb drive at the border... don't you love it when the media business is able to get government to help them spy on all businesses and persons......

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
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528.12.2008 17:23

True enough. The only thing that lets that fly is that it actually is based on very old laws, which have never been used in quite that way before. =/ In other words, unfortunatley, that IS "one of those caes".

I seriously doubt that will continue for long. Either the new administration or direct legal challenges will hose that one pretty soon, considering even big business is dead-set against it.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Dec 2008 @ 17:24

538.12.2008 17:26

Originally posted by Bozobub:
True enough. The only thing that lets that fly is that it actually is based on very old laws, which have never been used in quite that way before. =/

I seriously doubt that will continue for long. Either the new administration or direct legal challenges will hose that one pretty soon, considering even big business is dead-set against it.
I am surprised Big biz security has not taken action on it so that has to show how much of a immutable bureaucracy big biz is.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
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http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

548.12.2008 23:24

Just curious LynchGOP does your definition of "welfare recipient" happen to include Banks and such? :D

And how do you feel about free open-source software, should that be banned?

If Americans have been living on cheap credit for the last 7 years and farming the loans OS, isn't that just stealing/cheating?

Does your concept of "welfare recipient" extend to the free ride America has been getting from all the credit that COMMUNIST China extends to the States? The enormous financial dept that you owe that arguably "terrorist free" autocratic pirate-happy racist nation? Bearing in mind that in the next 20 years that they will no longer need the US economy to help build their own consumer base.

Next you'll be pushing Flat Earth coz that's what's written in the Bible you arrogant simpleton.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

559.12.2008 0:04

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Just curious LynchGOP does your definition of "welfare recipient" happen to include Banks and such? :D

And how do you feel about free open-source software, should that be banned?

If Americans have been living on cheap credit for the last 7 years and farming the loans OS, isn't that just stealing/cheating?

Does your concept of "welfare recipient" extend to the free ride America has been getting from all the credit that COMMUNIST China extends to the States? The enormous financial dept that you owe that arguably "terrorist free" autocratic pirate-happy racist nation? Bearing in mind that in the next 20 years that they will no longer need the US economy to help build their own consumer base.

Next you'll be pushing Flat Earth coz that's what's written in the Bible you arrogant simpleton.

Rant mode engage...........be wary its over 9000

Oh god yes lets end welfare and toss people out on their ass with modern building codes and tight regulations the"unwashed" masses will gather in forests as so the rich can hunt them...next you will tell me fred and fanny may popped the artificial finical market bubble.......no no no no greed(how can you make milloins off nothing at an accelerated pace and not call it artificial?),lack of oversight and tight regulation(we have soem decent regs but holy sht are they ignored) is what has hurt us the most not charity or lack rules for a small portion of the populace to get into homes you can not blame the workers who are under paid and sick for the captains of industry going on a drinking binge and blowing 10billon on hookers for upper management, now if the workers were part of the union racket that constantly beg and stole to get more wages in a industry thats completely over saturated and in bad need of a overhaul(yes cars) then mabye so...but there again look at what the CEOs and upper management did oh gee look at this we can sell overpriced over sized vehicles ineffeint vehicles that cost alot to maintain...so we can sell more of them down the road..and..SHOCK maintain a short a sighted artificial profit bubble like all corporate run entities who base everythign on what the ECO can make and give to the stock holders.

Yes capitalism is about profit however...if you fail at the corporate level you are reabsorbed into the industry and thos around it when you are a person at ground level you are crushed because you have no where to go and this is without the hand of gov reaching down handing out golden parachutes and pats on the desk to thos failed titans of industry...



A free market is one where compies come and go all the time, thos who seek long term profits and offer a real value to the populace stay in business the rest die of their own accord because they are unsupported, if gov comes in and creates monopolies or bank rolls failed business becuse their fck budies need a loan then all he have is a presudo class of nobility trading guidled property with each other while the populace is ignored.....


The problem with the US is its a sloppy bureaucracy thats creates vague houses of nobility that protects the machine anything you do to remove parts for the lower classes will only damage it further all we can do as a society is make it run more effectively either by destroying it which is a random vague chance the way the racket is setup or start with some basics focus jobs on infrastructure and energy and green energy, get vehicle makers to amke cheap and efficient vehicles as their main line if its over 20K its not cheap and should not be focused on as the majority of the nation can not afford a large costly vehicle,hybrids are a joke at 60K+, we need a better tax system one that focuses on profit as to end the complicated and harsh corporate tax structure and the as vague personal tax system,toss it out focus on a fair tax system where you pay taxes on what you buy IE a merchant tax system you sell it be it a widget or a service you pay tax on your profit from it that right there will halve the IRS one of the biggest bureaucratic messes yet.

Also we should repeal the bans on making your own liqueur and growing pot tax it and let the populace enjoy the wealth of a nation built of its people not the corporate state.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
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