AfterDawn: Tech news

Western Digital introduces 2.5 inch solid state drives

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 03 Mar 2010 11:50 User comments (47)

Western Digital introduces 2.5 inch solid state drives Today Western Digital announced a line of solid state 2.5 inch SATA hard drives called SiliconEdge Blue. The new drives include 64GB, 128GB & 256GB models.
The drives are intended to "accelerate SSD technology adoption by OEMs, technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors," said Michael Hajeck, senior vice president and general manager of WD's solid state storage business unit.

Traditional hard drives are arguably the weakest point in most computers. Reliance on mechanical parts makes them somewhat fragile and also limits performance.

The SiliconEdge Blue drives boast a sustained read speed of 250MB per second, compared to 100MB per second for Western Digital's fastest disk-based 2.5 inch drives in the Scorpio Black line. It's also a significant upgrade from 138MB per second for their best high performance desktop drive, the Caviar Black.

Sustained write speed isn't as good, which is normal for solid state storage. At 140MB per second it edges out the Caviar Black and handily beats the Scorpio Black.

Of course that performance comes at a steep price. The 64GB model has a suggested retail price of $279 USD. The 128GB model is priced at $529 and 256GB will cost you $999.

They all come with a three-year limited warranty. That's also the expected life of the drives.

Besides transfer speed, solid state drives can offer power saving advantages. When a SiliconEdge Blue drive is idle it uses less power than any other Western Digital hard drive, something that's an important consideration for mobile users.

Power consumption while reading is essentially the same as Scorpio Black drives. Writing actually uses more than half again as much, unlike the Scorpio drives where it remains the same for reading and writing.

For desktop users just looking for better read performance they could be a good solution, but with hard drives of 1TB - 2TB becoming commonplace it would seem their practical applications would be limited.

Although not a solution for every problem, hopefully these drives can help solid state drive technology catch on. It's about time long term storage took a leap forward to catch up with other computer technology.


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47 user comments

13.3.2010 12:52

with all due respect for WD i dont think price ranges of that sort are going "accelerate SSD technology adoption by OEMs, technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors" ..just thinking out loud here

23.3.2010 12:58

Three year expected life and warranty? What happened to solid state drives having expected life longer than any other computer component?
I thought that other stories about new SSDs all mentioned the expectation that the SSD "would outlast the rest of the computer." Was that just sales hype?

33.3.2010 13:03
jony218
Inactive

They have to take a back seat to some of the more established SSD makers. They came a little late to the party with an overpriced SSD. The namebrand is good, but the price is too high for it to become a mainstream product anytime soon.

The technology is good and already reliable but the price is still too high. Just like LCD monitors, they didn't "catch on" until they cost the same as CRT monitors and that process took years.

43.3.2010 13:30
WierdName
Inactive

This is the next step in HDD tech but with prices like that, it's just not quite there yet. Personally for me, I use a laptop and don't really game on it. So I would rather put that kind of money towards another battery and disk based drive. Load/write times would be killer on those with games and other large programs, but the price is still quite a ways off.

53.3.2010 14:12

Going to be a long time till these come down in price. I suspect seagate (crapgate) and western digital are hesitant to bring these to the market at affordable prices because it effectively means a slow death for their "data recovery" operations and sales which cost a fortune. SSD drives can withstand TONS more force and abuse than their "moving parts" counterparts. Which of course means less refurbished drives and happier customers in the long run...but less need to pay crapgate a fortune in data recovery.

No more 2TB drives that are BROKEN when you breathe too hard on it.

63.3.2010 14:13

When SDD is less than 40 cents a GB I will start caring about it...

73.3.2010 14:13

Quote:
They all come with a three-year limited warranty. That's also the expected life of the drives.
Wait...what? Western Digital expects consumers to shell out a minimum of $280 for a drive that they expect will only last three years? They've got to be dreaming.

Also, even though SSDs are a newer technology they should have a much better life, especially in a laptop, when compared to a HDD. Less moving parts, less electricity use and, as a consequence, less heat should mean longer life not a shorter one.

83.3.2010 15:58

the problem with ssd tech is that there are only so many times a block can be written to. the only way to maximize use of the drive is to write to different memory blocks but eventually they all will fail. it also makes the drive less secure. if you write data to the drive and then decide to encrypt it, the encrypted data will most likely not be saved to the same blocks of memory. this would leave the data in its original location and unencrypted. i believe that is why they are saying the drive will last only around 3 years. after so many write cycles that particular block of memory would fail and become unusable.

the only benefit of ssd would be long-term storage. if you plan on archiving information on them i am sure they would last a very long time. if you are constantly writing information to the drive it will become a paperweight in short order. technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors would all stay far far away from these types of drives since they would be constantly writing new data onto them and they are too expensive and the space is much more limited. i don't know too many regular people who would pay 1k in this day and age for a 256GB drive. the military only uses ssd because they can take more of a beating out in the field, which is more important than getting the best capacity for their money. i seriously doubt ssd will ever become widely adopted until the prices become a lot lower and their lifespans greatly increase.

93.3.2010 16:02

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
When SDD is less than 40 cents a GB I will start caring about it...
I second that. This is like the 15inch OLED televisions, just to expensive for what they have to offer.

103.3.2010 16:14

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
When SDD is less than 40 cents a GB I will start caring about it...
I second that. This is like the 15inch OLED televisions, just to expensive for what they have to offer.
Well while SDD has issues Oled is practically worthless its life span is shorter and what any power savings from it is destroyed when it shows white.

SDD if you can get 64GB for 50ish bucks you can get a couple for your main OS a main one and a replacement and if its the newer SDD tech thats ultra fast it would be worth it.


==============

I just realized its not that bad to warrent SSD for 3 years if people use them like a normal HDD it will stop being writable in 3 to 5 years, they really should make the storage chip removeable so you can replace it and not lose the whole unit when the flash chip fails.

113.3.2010 16:50

Originally posted by Ryoohki:
if you are constantly writing information to the drive it will become a paperweight in short order. technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors would all stay far far away from these types of drives since they would be constantly writing new data onto them and they are too expensive and the space is much more limited
And how often do the "moving" part/platter drives fail? All the time. Even a casual glance at the reviews on newegg for all drives say that it doesnt matter which brand you pick..its a toss up as to whether your drive will last, or get the click of death. Since its a given that a regular hard drive will last a scant 3-5 years anyway, I'd rather get a SSD and not worry about dropping it, since if you drop a WD platter drive...its toast regardless. Encryption on the other hand, well it will be interesting to see if Truecrypt/Drivecrypt creators can come up with something that solves that dilemma.

123.3.2010 17:09
scum101
Inactive

anybody else got a 120Mb hdd dated 1988?.. I have .. and it works a treat every boot in my 8088 (loads minix.. nice old skool os there)

none of this "new" technology is worth shit.. 1tb drives that are lucky to see out 12 monts.. sata t the shoddiest built crap I hve seen yet in computing hardware..

get with the program.. start hoarding them 300mb ide drives and motherboards that support ide tech before they turn into gold dust .. (there are reasons why the software crapware writers want you to update.. bios locking and such like) because people like me are buying them rock bottom prices right now.. because we KNOW they work and will last..


133.3.2010 17:22

Originally posted by scum101:
anybody else got a 120Mb hdd dated 1988?.. I have .. and it works a treat every boot in my 8088 (loads minix.. nice old skool os there)

none of this "new" technology is worth shit.. 1tb drives that are lucky to see out 12 monts.. sata t the shoddiest built crap I hve seen yet in computing hardware..

get with the program.. start hoarding them 300mb ide drives and motherboards that support ide tech before they turn into gold dust .. (there are reasons why the software crapware writers want you to update.. bios locking and such like) because people like me are buying them rock bottom prices right now.. because we KNOW they work and will last..
Meh you get what you pay for if you do not get a enterprise class HD you are gambling with your data....

143.3.2010 19:29

built in obsolesence is a very succesful marketing tool,TV's used to be built like tanks but now if they last three years past the warranty expiration you're lucky. nobody will design a battery to last 50 years because it will destroy the market. as for hard drives I bought 3 seagate external harddrives that seemed to be designed to fail (pic chip got corrupted on all 3)

153.3.2010 19:41

Originally posted by beanos66:
built in obsolesence is a very succesful marketing tool,TV's used to be built like tanks but now if they last three years past the warranty expiration you're lucky. nobody will design a battery to last 50 years because it will destroy the market. as for hard drives I bought 3 seagate external harddrives that seemed to be designed to fail (pic chip got corrupted on all 3)
Well things are built to maxmize sales not built for consumers in mind. Everyone needs to research their hardware and only buy the better made stuff....

163.3.2010 19:43

Originally posted by scum101:
anybody else got a 120Mb hdd dated 1988?.. I have .. and it works a treat every boot in my 8088 (loads minix.. nice old skool os there)
I have a 400MB SCSI HD from around that time that still works fine (HP is technically the brand, but I think Seagate made them for HP).

I've had the best luck w/ Hitachi drives...have had several and not a problem w/ any of them. I've had 2/3 of my WD IDE/SATA drives fail within a year of purchasing and about 1/5 of my Seagates fail within 3 years. That about matches our luck at work too...WD drives fail almost right out of the packaging about 2-3 times more often than Seagate ones.

Any super-important data I backup...if I was that concerned otherwise for my other data, I'd be RAIDing.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Mar 2010 @ 19:50

174.3.2010 12:27

Originally posted by Ryoohki:
the problem with ssd tech is that there are only so many times a block can be written to. the only way to maximize use of the drive is to write to different memory blocks but eventually they all will fail. it also makes the drive less secure. if you write data to the drive and then decide to encrypt it, the encrypted data will most likely not be saved to the same blocks of memory. this would leave the data in its original location and unencrypted. i believe that is why they are saying the drive will last only around 3 years. after so many write cycles that particular block of memory would fail and become unusable.

the only benefit of ssd would be long-term storage. if you plan on archiving information on them i am sure they would last a very long time. if you are constantly writing information to the drive it will become a paperweight in short order. technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors would all stay far far away from these types of drives since they would be constantly writing new data onto them and they are too expensive and the space is much more limited. i don't know too many regular people who would pay 1k in this day and age for a 256GB drive. the military only uses ssd because they can take more of a beating out in the field, which is more important than getting the best capacity for their money. i seriously doubt ssd will ever become widely adopted until the prices become a lot lower and their lifespans greatly increase.

This is exactly right. The big problem with SSD tech right now is it can be read an almost unlimited number of times, but can only be written to a few (relatively speaking). In fact one thing I didn't mention in the article was the per day write limit listed on the spec sheet, which was 15GB for the 64GB drive and I believe 70GB for the 264GB model. Presumably that's meant to average out the total number of writes their engineers (or PR people) expect in the drive's lifetime spread out over a 3 year period.

While this is certainly an issue, if you were planning to use it for long term storage of files that wouldn't be replaced or edited repeatedly one of these 3 year drives would probably last significantly longer than 3 years.

What's more important to me is that we get past the old hard drive model and move to just adding storage with a generic data interface appropriate for internal and external connections to computers, media servers and NAS boxes, DVRs, portable media players, car stereos and anywhere else it might come in handy. Storage needs to be more than cheap, fast and reliable. It also needs to be portable and homogeneous to improve compatibility and ultimately bring down prices for common applications.

184.3.2010 12:45

On the subject of drive quality, in my experience it depends first and foremost on what the market for the product is. One of the reasons SCSI drives tend to be more reliable is that they're designed specifically to cater to business customers. As a general rule businesses are more likely to pay for reliability and consumers are more likely to pay for bigger, faster and more.

As far as consumer drives go, in my experience retail Western Digital drives are the most reliable as a brand. Over the last 6 or 8 years I've seen lots of Seagate drives, ranging from 40GB PATA to 500GB SATA, fail within the first year and several more within the first 18 months. In the same period I've seen only 1 Western Digital retail drive fail within a year and none between a year and 18 months. Their OEM drives, on the other hand, have given me nothing but problems.

Keep in mind I've dealt with many more WD drives than any other brand, so the samples aren't exactly equivalent. But I've also seen fewer WD failures (including OEM drives) than Seagate failures.

At the end of the day, using spinning disks for storage is outdated and needs to go away. No matter how good the quality, the limitations inherent in a mechanical device are unacceptable given our ever expanding storage needs.

194.3.2010 13:10

Originally posted by vurbal:
On the subject of drive quality, in my experience it depends first and foremost on what the market for the product is. One of the reasons SCSI drives tend to be more reliable is that they're designed specifically to cater to business customers. As a general rule businesses are more likely to pay for reliability and consumers are more likely to pay for bigger, faster and more.

As far as consumer drives go, in my experience retail Western Digital drives are the most reliable as a brand. Over the last 6 or 8 years I've seen lots of Seagate drives, ranging from 40GB PATA to 500GB SATA, fail within the first year and several more within the first 18 months. In the same period I've seen only 1 Western Digital retail drive fail within a year and none between a year and 18 months. Their OEM drives, on the other hand, have given me nothing but problems.

Keep in mind I've dealt with many more WD drives than any other brand, so the samples aren't exactly equivalent. But I've also seen fewer WD failures (including OEM drives) than Seagate failures.

At the end of the day, using spinning disks for storage is outdated and needs to go away. No matter how good the quality, the limitations inherent in a mechanical device are unacceptable given our ever expanding storage needs.
Originally posted by vurbal:
On the subject of drive quality, in my experience it depends first and foremost on what the market for the product is. One of the reasons SCSI drives tend to be more reliable is that they're designed specifically to cater to business customers. As a general rule businesses are more likely to pay for reliability and consumers are more likely to pay for bigger, faster and more.

As far as consumer drives go, in my experience retail Western Digital drives are the most reliable as a brand. Over the last 6 or 8 years I've seen lots of Seagate drives, ranging from 40GB PATA to 500GB SATA, fail within the first year and several more within the first 18 months. In the same period I've seen only 1 Western Digital retail drive fail within a year and none between a year and 18 months. Their OEM drives, on the other hand, have given me nothing but problems.

Keep in mind I've dealt with many more WD drives than any other brand, so the samples aren't exactly equivalent. But I've also seen fewer WD failures (including OEM drives) than Seagate failures.

At the end of the day, using spinning disks for storage is outdated and needs to go away. No matter how good the quality, the limitations inherent in a mechanical device are unacceptable given our ever expanding storage needs.
Well we will have mechanical hard drives until chips can do at least 30% of their write cycles. Then by then chip based storage will be good enough to use.

What the current write cycle comparasion 1-5% tops? Chips storage has a long way to go...

204.3.2010 15:44

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well we will have mechanical hard drives until chips can do at least 30% of their write cycles. Then by then chip based storage will be good enough to use.

What the current write cycle comparasion 1-5% tops? Chips storage has a long way to go...
Absolutely. But I think getting SSD drives into the hands of more consumers is one way to speed up the development cycle and willingness of manufacturers to spend money advancing the technology. I won't be supporting it personally right now. I'm not going to spend $1000 on an entire computer, let alone a 256GB hard drive. But hopefully someone will.

214.3.2010 16:01

Originally posted by vurbal:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well we will have mechanical hard drives until chips can do at least 30% of their write cycles. Then by then chip based storage will be good enough to use.

What the current write cycle comparasion 1-5% tops? Chips storage has a long way to go...
Absolutely. But I think getting SSD drives into the hands of more consumers is one way to speed up the development cycle and willingness of manufacturers to spend money advancing the technology. I won't be supporting it personally right now. I'm not going to spend $1000 on an entire computer, let alone a 256GB hard drive. But hopefully someone will.
I think USB 3 will do more to advance chip tech than normal SSD tech has been trying to do. With the speed of USB 3 it's going to be an awesome ride as far as watching the development of all kinds of chip based storage. I really hope USB 3 will take off quickly.

Question is there anyway to boost USB2.0 speed? Like useign a device plugged into 2 ports with a special app to push data at a faster rate? Or even convert a USB2 and Estat port into a USB 3 like port. Prob not as PCI,PCI E or on he mobo itself should be it for upgrading to USB3.

224.3.2010 19:20

I will wait for the new 600Gbs Velociraptor SATA6 , it will be the same price as the 300Gbs and alot better. Fast enough for me.

234.3.2010 19:24

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well we will have mechanical hard drives until chips can do at least 30% of their write cycles. Then by then chip based storage will be good enough to use.

What the current write cycle comparasion 1-5% tops? Chips storage has a long way to go...
Absolutely. But I think getting SSD drives into the hands of more consumers is one way to speed up the development cycle and willingness of manufacturers to spend money advancing the technology. I won't be supporting it personally right now. I'm not going to spend $1000 on an entire computer, let alone a 256GB hard drive. But hopefully someone will.

Very right, mechanical HDD's are definitely becoming ancient tech, and the move to solid state solutions is the future, but right now the technology just simply isn't up to a reliable state as of yet. New tech is always slow to develop and pricey at the beginning, but someone needs to work out the kinks and at least they're trying to do so. They have to sell this hobbled tech still because of the simple fact they need to have some money produced from it to continue the development. So I tip my hat to those that can afford, and DO purchase these high priced and somewhat unreliable devices, because without them most new devices would never hit the shelves later on for the rest of us.
I've had more HDD's than I can count, and I remember when they were "new" and unreliable tech as well, but they hit their stride after awhile too. Since 1996 I've had only 1 HDD fail (out of over 20) and most are WD's, very reliable IMO.
Someone soon will solve the SSD block write problem and then the tech can begin moving into mainstream usage, prices will drop, and people will adopt it more readily...just takes time with these things is all.

244.3.2010 19:49

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well we will have mechanical hard drives until chips can do at least 30% of their write cycles. Then by then chip based storage will be good enough to use.

What the current write cycle comparasion 1-5% tops? Chips storage has a long way to go...
Absolutely. But I think getting SSD drives into the hands of more consumers is one way to speed up the development cycle and willingness of manufacturers to spend money advancing the technology. I won't be supporting it personally right now. I'm not going to spend $1000 on an entire computer, let alone a 256GB hard drive. But hopefully someone will.

Very right, mechanical HDD's are definitely becoming ancient tech, and the move to solid state solutions is the future, but right now the technology just simply isn't up to a reliable state as of yet. New tech is always slow to develop and pricey at the beginning, but someone needs to work out the kinks and at least they're trying to do so. They have to sell this hobbled tech still because of the simple fact they need to have some money produced from it to continue the development. So I tip my hat to those that can afford, and DO purchase these high priced and somewhat unreliable devices, because without them most new devices would never hit the shelves later on for the rest of us.
I've had more HDD's than I can count, and I remember when they were "new" and unreliable tech as well, but they hit their stride after awhile too. Since 1996 I've had only 1 HDD fail (out of over 20) and most are WD's, very reliable IMO.
Someone soon will solve the SSD block write problem and then the tech can begin moving into mainstream usage, prices will drop, and people will adopt it more readily...just takes time with these things is all.
Well new tech needs 3 things to evolve, a need to fill, a market it can get into without destroying the items qaulity or the consumers budget. And a reasonable pace at which it raises qaulity and lowers price.

SDD is doing all that as CD and DVD recorders as BR recorders(just started to use mine I love it) and LCD(just got a 24inch HD WS LCD monitor as well LOL).

SSD tech and flash for that amtter is tricky due to its limits but on the other hand you can funnel profits from general flash tech into the SSD tech. IMO the main difference between SSD and flash is speed and maximum write cycles. Flash has exploded because of USB and USB 3 will almost reinvent flash. Sure Sata will be around and be used but I tell you everyone will be making a USB3 flash device with all that money going into the main chip storage makers their R$D labs are going to go into overtime making it cheaper and better..

254.3.2010 20:20

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
SDD is doing all that as CD and DVD recorders as BR recorders(just started to use mine I love it) and LCD(just got a 24inch HD WS LCD monitor as well LOL).
Yep, it all basically goes in the same way.
BTW, I haven't had the need to get a BR recorder yet, but it's on the list now that I have a BR player. It also took me awhile to go LCD monitors, got a 19" back in 02, but in 07/08 I picked up 2-22" HDMI LCD monitors and have never been happier about a purchase!

Back on topic (LOL), yah, USB3 is definitely going to make Flash a heavy hitter. SATA is good except for the weak/clunky connector they designed for it. I mean...what's with that? Those things were breaking all over the place, but the protocol at least is good and works reliably.
I'm satisfied with my SATAII drives (3 x 500G WD Caviars) for at least the next few years and most of my machine is fairly new stuff, so I probably won't be making any new jumps in tech for awhile, but it's pretty clear that my next build will probably be a chip based storage system. By then all this should be worked out...I hope

Isn't this stuff fun!

264.3.2010 20:48

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
SDD is doing all that as CD and DVD recorders as BR recorders(just started to use mine I love it) and LCD(just got a 24inch HD WS LCD monitor as well LOL).
Yep, it all basically goes in the same way.
BTW, I haven't had the need to get a BR recorder yet, but it's on the list now that I have a BR player. It also took me awhile to go LCD monitors, got a 19" back in 02, but in 07/08 I picked up 2-22" HDMI LCD monitors and have never been happier about a purchase!

Back on topic (LOL), yah, USB3 is definitely going to make Flash a heavy hitter. SATA is good except for the weak/clunky connector they designed for it. I mean...what's with that? Those things were breaking all over the place, but the protocol at least is good and works reliably.
I'm satisfied with my SATAII drives (3 x 500G WD Caviars) for at least the next few years and most of my machine is fairly new stuff, so I probably won't be making any new jumps in tech for awhile, but it's pretty clear that my next build will probably be a chip based storage system. By then all this should be worked out...I hope

Isn't this stuff fun!
I got a LG HL-DT-ST BD-RE WH08LS20, 150$ 4 or 8X I forget, so far its a great drive killed a disc but thats because I tried burnign one with win7 and not img burn.

My old monitor was a 23inch monster, I do love my LCD monitor but I pet it will die by 013 LOL.

I am planing to put 2-3 grand into one last big computer upgrae befor I just maintain that level of PC until I can not stand it anymore. Since gaming has died to over protection and or sucky modern watered down designs there is little reason to put so much into a PC anymore.

Sata was based around portability, I think if they standardized a rubber grommet,one for independent cabling one for the data/power plug, that fit around the plugs to act as a buffer to bending it it would cure that design flaw. That or use a tougher plastic.

I find watching the tech war and how it evolves primarily the gameing stuff more interesting than the modern media that runs on it 0-o\

LOL

274.3.2010 22:18

Quote:
Originally posted by Ryoohki:
if you are constantly writing information to the drive it will become a paperweight in short order. technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors would all stay far far away from these types of drives since they would be constantly writing new data onto them and they are too expensive and the space is much more limited
And how often do the "moving" part/platter drives fail? All the time. Even a casual glance at the reviews on newegg for all drives say that it doesnt matter which brand you pick..its a toss up as to whether your drive will last, or get the click of death. Since its a given that a regular hard drive will last a scant 3-5 years anyway, I'd rather get a SSD and not worry about dropping it, since if you drop a WD platter drive...its toast regardless. Encryption on the other hand, well it will be interesting to see if Truecrypt/Drivecrypt creators can come up with something that solves that dilemma.
On an average it is around 1% a really high number huh! Now Seagate has had some quality issues as of late and due to that their failure rate is higher. WD use to have problems but have started to make better drives which is what I buy now instead of Seagate. I understand Samsung makes good drives now but I haven't played with them so it is only what I hear. I do have still working 2, 4, & 8GB drives that go back before 88' but also have 40, & 80GB ones as well and some of these have been used 24/7 like a RAID drive would be used, or as Zippy calls them Enterprise drives. These drives that are still working are from Maxtor, Seagate, and WD the one major MFG that didn't hold up was the IBM drives which are now Hitachi. At this moment I will not buy Hitachi or Seagate drives as they are not the best.

SSD's are too slow, too expensive, too limited to their usage. The only real good place to use these drives are in hazardous environments were shock and/or dust is an issue.

284.3.2010 22:31

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryoohki:
if you are constantly writing information to the drive it will become a paperweight in short order. technology enthusiasts, gamers and road warriors would all stay far far away from these types of drives since they would be constantly writing new data onto them and they are too expensive and the space is much more limited
And how often do the "moving" part/platter drives fail? All the time. Even a casual glance at the reviews on newegg for all drives say that it doesnt matter which brand you pick..its a toss up as to whether your drive will last, or get the click of death. Since its a given that a regular hard drive will last a scant 3-5 years anyway, I'd rather get a SSD and not worry about dropping it, since if you drop a WD platter drive...its toast regardless. Encryption on the other hand, well it will be interesting to see if Truecrypt/Drivecrypt creators can come up with something that solves that dilemma.
On an average it is around 1% a really high number huh! Now Seagate has had some quality issues as of late and due to that their failure rate is higher. WD use to have problems but have started to make better drives which is what I buy now instead of Seagate. I understand Samsung makes good drives now but I haven't played with them so it is only what I hear. I do have still working 2, 4, & 8GB drives that go back before 88' but also have 40, & 80GB ones as well and some of these have been used 24/7 like a RAID drive would be used, or as Zippy calls them Enterprise drives. These drives that are still working are from Maxtor, Seagate, and WD the one major MFG that didn't hold up was the IBM drives which are now Hitachi. At this moment I will not buy Hitachi or Seagate drives as they are not the best.

SSD's are too slow, too expensive, too limited to their usage. The only real good place to use these drives are in hazardous environments were shock and/or dust is an issue.
I that the proper term these days? I always herd them called enterprise drives because they are mainly used by business and thus built a little bit better than the consumer end stuff.

Whats the throughout of your average 7X00 RPM HDD? I thought the newer SDD of 190MBS+ was a bit quicker. Now the older SDD stuff IDE or SATA is like flash on a USB 1 port :P

295.3.2010 0:07

Enterprise is used adopted these days, as a server builder and talking to the drive reps we almost always refer to them as a RAID drives as they are used for disk arrays and require 24/7 operation with a higher MTBF. You can and a lot of people including the drive MFG use Enterprise to discuss/sell their better drives. What a lot of people don't understand is if they use a consumer drive in a RAID array and have the drives run 24/7 they void warranty. Whether the MFG enforces that all depends, but they can refuse to replace a drive that fails under the specified period if the drive has been used as a RAID drive.

A WD Black 2TB drive has a 3GBps throughput, 138MBps Host to/from (sustained), NOT BURST which is much higher, and that's not the Enterprise 15K drive, that's the 7200rpm drive. WD & Seagate has a 6GB/s drive on the new SATA3 platform but as I said I won't play with Seagate right now. SAS drives are in the same ballpark and can now handle the 6GBps throughput as well.

On the WD SSD 250GB drive the burst read rate is up to 250MBps and the write rate is up to 170MBps with a limit of 70GB/day and MTBF of 1,400,00 hours. That isnít a true sustained read/write rate and heavy read cycles would prove that 250/170MB limit much lower. With the low power consumption of this SSD and the fact that it will operated at 80K feet makes it perfect for military use as well and has a MIL rating. But I doubt it will outperform the WD Black drives when it comes to performance even though SSD is getting better.

NOTE: Stay away from the Green crap especially if you are a gamer as they will not perform well and worst yet may sleep on you while playing a game. There is a reason they don't give you many spec's on green drives.

305.3.2010 0:39

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Enterprise is used adopted these days, as a server builder and talking to the drive reps we almost always refer to them as a RAID drives as they are used for disk arrays and require 24/7 operation with a higher MTBF. You can and a lot of people including the drive MFG use Enterprise to discuss/sell their better drives. What a lot of people don't understand is if they use a consumer drive in a RAID array and have the drives run 24/7 they void warranty. Whether the MFG enforces that all depends, but they can refuse to replace a drive that fails under the specified period if the drive has been used as a RAID drive.

A WD Black 2TB drive has a 3GBps throughput, 138MBps Host to/from (sustained), NOT BURST which is much higher, and that's not the Enterprise 15K drive, that's the 7200rpm drive. WD & Seagate has a 6GB/s drive on the new SATA3 platform but as I said I won't play with Seagate right now. SAS drives are in the same ballpark and can now handle the 6GBps throughput as well.

On the WD SSD 250GB drive the burst read rate is up to 250MBps and the write rate is up to 170MBps with a limit of 70GB/day and MTBF of 1,400,00 hours. That isnít a true sustained read/write rate and heavy read cycles would prove that 250/170MB limit much lower. With the low power consumption of this SSD and the fact that it will operated at 80K feet makes it perfect for military use as well and has a MIL rating. But I doubt it will outperform the WD Black drives when it comes to performance even though SSD is getting better.

NOTE: Stay away from the Green crap especially if you are a gamer as they will not perform well and worst yet may sleep on you while playing a game. There is a reason they don't give you many spec's on green drives.
I run my PC 24/7 at least one drive is going all the time, I watch smart stats monthly/weekly. My 2 1TB WD drives(one is a green sadly) has been RMA'd once each, the seagate drives I got 1TB one 300GB has not given me trouble yet, I also have a 750GB WD drive that has my OS on it.


Yes I know I has franken computer(MSI PN7 platinum,2.8 c2D,2GB stick patriot low cas rating for DDR2, LG br burner,EVGA super clock 640MB 8800 GT), trying to clean things up by moving data to BR discs.

Oh BTW whats the down side to have the HDDs on their own PSU? I have 2 500watt, one runs the Mobo and video card the other runs the HDDs and fan. I have a manual switch to turn it on and off and have the extra PSU grounded to the case and running off a USP its own UPS.

I know its not the best setuup but I can't get a 1000watt PSU yet. Also I noticed I have less error from hard crashes.


Also whats the best 2GB drive on the market? I am more for space vrs raid but when I get my sht in order I would like to run a basic raid setup at least just for the OS HDD..

316.3.2010 0:23

Your dual PS setup is fine and hopefully grounding wonít be an issue but to assure that I think Iíd make sure that both PSís are mounted to the same chassis just to be safe or add a ground wire from the PS not secured and attach it to the computer case chassis. You can get two 500 or 600 watt supplies cheaper than some of the larger PSís so as long as you have the space itís not a bad route to go. In servers they do this all the time but often it is a redundant configuration so that if one PS fails the other PS is used and a fail-over is set.

For WD drives I would wait until they release the new 6GB SATA or SAS drives which will be out very soon but if I was to go with something now in a RAID performance configuration I would look at VelociRaptorís or WD S25 SAS drives for ultra-fast large drive numbers expensive arrays or for larger capacity but smaller array(s) the RE4 series drives with 64MB buffers and very fast latencies but at a much cheaper cost.

Unless you are rich the later is the way to go as drive sizes are 1.5TB & 2TB drives compared to 150GB & 300GB drives where you going to have to use nested arrays to gain capacity and cost is exponential. So going with the larger fast raid class drives is your best bet as you can use RAID 0,3,5,30,50 configurations for performance and 1,10 and so on for redundancy but slower performance. If you use class 0 which gives you the best performance you will not have redundancy so if a drive goes you lose everything and that is why I would suggest 5 or 1,0. If you use RAID 5 which is a nice route to go but there is a write hole stripe corruption problem with RAID 5 software where typically NVRAM is used on a controller solution to prevent this. Also there is ZFS RAID 5 which is more reliable too.

Best WD Desktop drive Model: WD1002FAEX is a 1TB SATA3 6GB throughput 64MB cache drive that is being sold now with 2TB and 750,640,500GB drives coming soon. Again on these drives you could void the warranty by using them in a RAID configuration but if you do, you really need to turn on the TLER mode with a software tool you can download from WD.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Mar 2010 @ 0:33

326.3.2010 0:36

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Your dual PS setup is fine and hopefully grounding wonít be an issue but to assure that I think Iíd make sure that both PSís are mounted to the same chassis just to be safe or add a ground wire from the PS not secured to the computer case chassis. You can get two 500 or 600 watt supplies cheaper than some of the larger PSís so as long as you have the space itís not a bad route to go. I servers they do this all the time but often it is a redundant configuration so that if one PS fails the other PS is used and a fail-over is set.

For WD drives I would wait until they release the new 6GB SATA or SAS drives which will be out very soon but if I was to go with something now in a RAID performance configuration I would look at VelociRaptorís or WD S25 SAS drives for ultra-fast large drive numbers expensive arrays or for larger capacity but smaller array(s) the RE4 series drives with 64MB buffers and very fast latencies but at a much cheaper cost.

Unless you are rich the later is the way to go as drive sizes are 1.5TB & 2TB drives compared to 150GB & 300GB drives where you going to have to use nested arrays to gain capacity and cost is exponential. So going with the larger fast raid class drives is your best bet as you can use RAID 0,3,5,30,50 configurations for performance and 1,10 and so on for redundancy but slower performance. If you use class 0 which gives you the best performance you will not have redundancy so if a drive goes you lose everything and that is why I would suggest 5 or 1,0. If you use RAID 5 which is a nice route to go but there is a write hole stripe corruption problem with RAID 5 software where typically NVRAM is used on a controller solution to prevent this. Also there is ZFS RAID 5 which is more reliable too.

Best WD Desktop drive Model: WD1002FAEX is a 1TB SATA3 6GB throughput 64MB cache drive that is being sold now with 2TB and 750,640,500GB drives coming soon. Again on these drives you could void the warranty by using them in a RAID configuration but if you do, you really need to turn on the TLER mode with a software tool you can download from WD.

Well its not installed in the case, I haz a caboose :P
I took some pictures but I will post them online when I get home this weekend, I have the other PSU mounted outside behind the internal PSU,


Well any brand will do for best HDD, well best space vrs life span, I got whatever HD I could on sale when I had the money.

Not really looking into HDDs right now but I may need one or 2 when I do my last great PC build in a couple years.

336.3.2010 1:23

As to the ground issue if it is a hassle to run a ground wire from the external supply then don't do it you will still have a common ground at the wall outlet however you are much safer to make your common ground at the chassis.

Both Seagate and WD have 5 year warranties on their better drives but that doesn't always mean much if the drive fails in the first year and you lose all of you data whcih I've seen way too often with Seagate lately and is why I have moved to WD fo myself and customers. I used to push Seagate but when times change I try to change with them. Hitachi drives run hotter and just don't last as long as other drives so I stay away from them with exception to 2.5" drives. Before Hitachi started to make IBM's drives they made a very good drive for notebooks and some of those drives are OK. Like I said prior I've heard Samsung drives are good but I shy away from pushing those as I haven't worked with them as much as the other 3 MFG's and we are talking thousands of drives from the other 3 mostly WD and Seagate. Maxtor doesn't exist now since Seagate took them over nuch like Sumsung taking over for IBM.

Again WD SATA3 (6GBps) drives are the way to go in my opinon but if you want to gamble you can go with Seagate or Hitachi or Samsung but of those three I probably would still avoid Seagate.

346.3.2010 1:52

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
As to the ground issue if it is a hassle to run a ground wire from the external supply then don't do it you will still have a common ground at the wall outlet however you are much safer to make your common ground at the chassis.

Both Seagate and WD have 5 year warranties on their better drives but that doesn't always mean much if the drive fails in the first year and you lose all of you data whcih I've seen way too often with Seagate lately and is why I have moved to WD fo myself and customers. I used to push Seagate but when times change I try to change with them. Hitachi drives run hotter and just don't last as long as other drives so I stay away from them with exception to 2.5" drives. Before Hitachi started to make IBM's drives they made a very good drive for notebooks and some of those drives are OK. Like I said prior I've heard Samsung drives are good but I shy away from pushing those as I haven't worked with them as much as the other 3 MFG's and we are talking thousands of drives from the other 3 mostly WD and Seagate. Maxtor doesn't exist now since Seagate took them over nuch like Sumsung taking over for IBM.

Again WD SATA3 (6GBps) drives are the way to go in my opinon but if you want to gamble you can go with Seagate or Hitachi or Samsung but of those three I probably would still avoid Seagate.
Ya I just made the case the ground, whats a good run temp for a HDD? I don't like it when they hit 40c s far as I knowanything under 40 should be safe enough.

Heh when will see a 6TB maybe I will buy a new HD then :P

357.3.2010 2:22

If you are running continuosly and heats an issue the WD 2TB drive Model: WD20EVDS is good it is designed just for that with an operating temp range of 0-70C and is specifically designed for
PVR/DVR AV Streaming. The Black SATA2 drives temp range is 0-60C which isn't bad either but not made for continuos pounding at high temps.

There is a 8TB drive coming out soon as well but they will be very expensive of course.

367.3.2010 13:40

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
If you are running continuosly and heats an issue the WD 2TB drive Model: WD20EVDS is good it is designed just for that with an operating temp range of 0-70C and is specifically designed for
PVR/DVR AV Streaming. The Black SATA2 drives temp range is 0-60C which isn't bad either but not made for continuos pounding at high temps.

There is a 8TB drive coming out soon as well but they will be very expensive of course.
So anything under 45c is great?

Ah 400$ for a 8TB HDD? :P

377.3.2010 14:24

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
If you are running continuosly and heats an issue the WD 2TB drive Model: WD20EVDS is good it is designed just for that with an operating temp range of 0-70C and is specifically designed for
PVR/DVR AV Streaming. The Black SATA2 drives temp range is 0-60C which isn't bad either but not made for continuos pounding at high temps.

There is a 8TB drive coming out soon as well but they will be very expensive of course.
So anything under 45c is great?

Ah 400$ for a 8TB HDD? :P
Yup 45c is a great zone to run in if it gets higher then 50c I personally would get a low speed fan to blow or suck directly on them and make sure the drives have space between each other for proper cooling airflow. Airflow should always flow from the front of the case to the rear in todays standards.

387.3.2010 14:36

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
If you are running continuosly and heats an issue the WD 2TB drive Model: WD20EVDS is good it is designed just for that with an operating temp range of 0-70C and is specifically designed for
PVR/DVR AV Streaming. The Black SATA2 drives temp range is 0-60C which isn't bad either but not made for continuos pounding at high temps.

There is a 8TB drive coming out soon as well but they will be very expensive of course.
So anything under 45c is great?

Ah 400$ for a 8TB HDD? :P
Yup 45c is a great zone to run in if it gets higher then 50c I personally would get a low speed fan to blow or suck directly on them and make sure the drives have space between each other for proper cooling airflow. Airflow should always flow from the front of the case to the rear in todays standards.
Well my HDD right now run between 28 and 38 they did use to go as high as 45.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Mar 2010 @ 15:12

408.3.2010 22:54

I checked out your pictures and if you are going to keep using that system as is you might want to come up with a better solution for that PS than just hanging it off the tower loosely. None of your pictures show the I/O expansion so I'm not sure what kind of space you have but my suggestion would be to mount the PS to the inside of the side access panel of the case. You can cutout the little square holes in the rear of the case to sneak the power cord into the 2nd supply and TyRap it to the remaining square holes to provide strain relief. You can use the bottom screw mounts on the supply, not the rear mount normal ones, to secure the PS to the side panel which would require drilling 4 small hole in the side panel. Or you could use some Military quality velcro to secure it as well, Home Depot and others like that carry it. Unless you've gotten really wild with addon cards you should be able to jerry-rig the 2nd supply internally and avoid some potential issues that are real possibilty with what you are doing right now.

Hope that is constructive for you... ;)

419.3.2010 0:24

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
I checked out your pictures and if you are going to keep using that system as is you might want to come up with a better solution for that PS than just hanging it off the tower loosely. None of your pictures show the I/O expansion so I'm not sure what kind of space you have but my suggestion would be to mount the PS to the inside of the side access panel of the case. You can cutout the little square holes in the rear of the case to sneak the power cord into the 2nd supply and TyRap it to the remaining square holes to provide strain relief. You can use the bottom screw mounts on the supply, not the rear mount normal ones, to secure the PS to the side panel which would require drilling 4 small hole in the side panel. Or you could use some Military quality velcro to secure it as well, Home Depot and others like that carry it. Unless you've gotten really wild with addon cards you should be able to jerry-rig the 2nd supply internally and avoid some potential issues that are real possibilty with what you are doing right now.

Hope that is constructive for you... ;)
Considering I have no room in the case and have to take it apart and take it over to my uncles 3 or 6 items a year and I do not want to "harm" my 100$ aero cool case it going to be a hanging caboose :P, I been trying to find a good 5inch bay PSU. Any suggestions for that?

429.3.2010 1:07

It would be easier and cheaper in the long run just to buy a larger PS that you could mount normally. But if you wanted to put a PS in the 5-1/2 bay you could use a low watt (250w)special minicase supply or you could use a 1u server supply but they may be too long for the 460w one depending which bay you use to mount it and what type of fan you use to cool the CPU.

Here is a link of a 1u PS;
http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=PSFS005

439.3.2010 2:03

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449.3.2010 9:14

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
It would be easier and cheaper in the long run just to buy a larger PS that you could mount normally. But if you wanted to put a PS in the 5-1/2 bay you could use a low watt (250w)special minicase supply or you could use a 1u server supply but they may be too long for the 460w one depending which bay you use to mount it and what type of fan you use to cool the CPU.

Here is a link of a 1u PS;
http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=PSFS005


The 1000 watt PSU I want to get is 300$, so buying a 90$ PSU will get my through the year or 2 till I can get it.

I am still playing with it I have looked up many mini or smaller PSUs but ran across a few cheap drive by PSUs, I know its crude and hardly finished but it will do for now.

459.3.2010 10:01

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
It would be easier and cheaper in the long run just to buy a larger PS that you could mount normally. But if you wanted to put a PS in the 5-1/2 bay you could use a low watt (250w)special minicase supply or you could use a 1u server supply but they may be too long for the 460w one depending which bay you use to mount it and what type of fan you use to cool the CPU.

Here is a link of a 1u PS;
http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=PSFS005


The 1000 watt PSU I want to get is 300$, so buying a 90$ PSU will get my through the year or 2 till I can get it.

I am still playing with it I have looked up many mini or smaller PSUs but ran across a few cheap drive by PSUs, I know its crude and hardly finished but it will do for now.
Here is a very good supply for $99 it is a 950w with (4) 12v rails, active PFC and it is a 80 plus certified PS. You don't need to spend $300 for a 1000w supply to get a good supply and you certinally don't need to Mickey Mouse like you are right now.

Rosewill Xtreme Series RX950-S-B 950W Continuous @40įC ,80 PLUS Certified, ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V v2.91, SLI Ready CrossFire Ready, Active PFC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182096

469.3.2010 10:26

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
It would be easier and cheaper in the long run just to buy a larger PS that you could mount normally. But if you wanted to put a PS in the 5-1/2 bay you could use a low watt (250w)special minicase supply or you could use a 1u server supply but they may be too long for the 460w one depending which bay you use to mount it and what type of fan you use to cool the CPU.

Here is a link of a 1u PS;
http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=PSFS005


The 1000 watt PSU I want to get is 300$, so buying a 90$ PSU will get my through the year or 2 till I can get it.

I am still playing with it I have looked up many mini or smaller PSUs but ran across a few cheap drive by PSUs, I know its crude and hardly finished but it will do for now.
Here is a very good supply for $99 it is a 950w with (4) 12v rails, active PFC and it is a 80 plus certified PS. You don't need to spend $300 for a 1000w supply to get a good supply and you certinally don't need to Mickey Mouse like you are right now.

Rosewill Xtreme Series RX950-S-B 950W Continuous @40įC ,80 PLUS Certified, ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V v2.91, SLI Ready CrossFire Ready, Active PFC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...7182096


Rosewell is a pretty iffy brand and its not modeler :P

Now this gets my all wet!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256044


Also this is not bad for the price >>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182188

Not completely modeler tho >>
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Mar 2010 @ 10:33

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

479.3.2010 11:08

Rosewill makes good products at an inexpensive price I've had more problems with Thermaltake than Rosewill and I've used both a lot. There are plenty of cheap solutions that will work well and don't require all the mess you have right now Raidmax is another PS that is pretty good but cheap in price. Another PS I avoid is CoolMaster I've had a couple go belly up just after the year warranty is up and their customer service really blows. Another very solid PS is Sparkle but they typically are not fancy PS's so that wouldn't be of interest to you probably.

Remember your just trying to get by right now until you get your dream PS. I don't know you configuration but do you really need a 1000w PS or is your requirement more due to bragging rights then actual power required? Have you added up your device power? Do you need more 5v wattage or 12v wattage? If you haven't done your math I would do so and then add 10% or so, also consider any future expansion that could fit into your case.

Good luck with your endeavorÖ

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