PS3 picky about which HDTV it chooses

This is why I didn't wait in line for days...I'll get one when all the bugs are worked out.

then you wait forever ;=)

Well hopefully its just a software problem, which they can issue an update for. But with the shortages, it's looking like I'll be waiting awhile anyways :(

hey my HDTV supports 720p =]

Yep, mine too. I'm loyal to Sony, but with all the articles I've read since they announced PS3 till the release, I think they should've took alittle more time getting it ready. Because all I've heard about is software issues, problems with hardware shortages, problems with the Blu-ray Drive. I know its cutting edge technology(Cell & Blu-Ray) and everything, but I just don't remember hearing about all these problems with the PS2 release. I have more to say, but I have work bright and early tomorrow. ~Levi~

I have one the first PS2 released in the U.S. I stood in one of those lines back then and my wife and I waited for a long while to get one. We had it under the tree for our sons that Christmas and paid $500 for it. The system came with an extra controller and two games, plus 2 DVD movies. It wasn't worth it at all looking back on that day. The system was great for 6 months and the drive stopped reading the games. It did read DVD's but that wasn't what we bought it for. I waited for the HDD and Network adaptor for what seemed like forever. When those items came out the thing was on the injured reserve list. Now it sits in a box and does nothing. I thought about getting it fixed and putting a mod chip in it but why spend good money after bad? The XBox was next on our Christmas shopping list. It was waiting for us at the store ready to go. I’m not surprised at all that the Sony Playstation 3 is limited and possibly will have less features than the Xbox 360. I noticed that this new Playstation 3 system has a slot feed drive. If that drive fails (Sony products do fail) and the DVD or game you were playing was in inside when it happens then you would have to take the sucker apart to get the disc out. Now we have a choice of Blu-ray or HD DVD. Which one will win? I know that from what I have seen the Blu-ray is badass but I remember a Sony product once called Betamax that also recorded and was a badass in its time. The legacy of Betamax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax) Here is how that went down; “By 1984, forty companies utilized the VHS format in comparison with Beta's twelve. Sony finally conceded defeat in 1988 when it too began producing VHS recorders.” I don't wait in lines any longer for the first release of a game system and I will never wait in line for a Sony Product ever again. I'll wait on the 3rd generations to arrive and look for the half off sale.

Originally posted by leviticus:

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This is why I didn't wait in line for days...I'll get one when all the bugs are worked out.

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Yep, that was my thought process. I can wait until October when GTA IV comes out.

I'm feeling better and better every day that I purchased my trusty magnificent 360.

360s arent made for homebrew firmware and im sure they are going to be harder to crack and make do what it should have been able to do out of the box. even though i would much rather have a ps3 ill probably end up with a 360 cause they are GIVING them away with a tire purchase at some of my local ford dealers.

i have a hitachi projector it is the Hitachi CP-S225W Multimedia Projector it says its 1080i compatiable will the PS3 not let it use that res

i have a link for the specs its here http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Hitachi-CP-S225W

terryz666 lets see the 360 had a hellish launch bad games bad hardware ,has a limited 20GB HD and they jsut got a moive deal for streaming moives....the PS3 has a 20 and 60 and you can put any HD you want in it so far its had 2 bugs BWC glitchs that can be fixed thru firmware and HDTV issue can be fixed in firmware to or at the least with a new set of 40$ cables. So far the PS3 launch is better than the PS2 and 360s I might loath sony and the PS3 with every ounce of my being but so far the launch is going ok. Javafriek whitch only half work right......no thank you.....I'll only get a frist revision 360 for 100$ >< georgeluv the only real diffrance in the PS3 and 360 hack wise is that theres more hobby programmers out their who know how to screw with lunix than there are people who can debug MS's console

One thing I am looking forward to is the ability to install various versions of Linux on the PS3. Homebrew applications should explode onto the PS3 sceene soon. I know PS3 doesn't run on the same architecture that PC's do, but being able to install a full operating system should make it easier. I don't program on Linux, so I could be totally wrong. I remember the PSP being the same way. Once people figured out how to get around the firmware and program in the PSP native language(I think C#, if not correct me please) homebrew was all over the place. And it wasn't long before Linux was able to be installed on that too.

they'll just issue a mandatory firmware upgrade for those homebrewers. this thing will be hard to crack I'm sure. I mean once they figure out how to mod it you still have to get around the blu-ray issue as well. i'll get one when they work all of that out. I'll be playing the 360 verious of GTA4 when it releases in May. waiting till damn near 08 for GTA sucks.

bad news boys, its not a software problem its a hardware problem: http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/39093/PS3_Lacks_Upscaler_For_1080i_ scroll down its like the third paragraph. the short of it: "For reference, all PS3 games support 720p, while support for 1080i and 1080p is optional. In the NeoGAF thread, a developer from Insomniac Games, which produced the 720p-only Resistance: Fall of Man, stated that the problem is "not a software issue," implying that it is the hardware that lacks an upscaler. By contrast, Microsoft's Xbox 360 will upscale 720p games to 1080i for TVs that require it." looks likesony would like us all to buy new high def tvs to go with out ps3s. sure glad i decided to wait out the hd standard war. ill probably wait till after this xmas then get a 1080p

can someone help me with my question i posted above

my projector has a native resalution of 800x600 and it is capible of 1080i it is a Hitachi CP-S225W Multimedia Projector the specs are this http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Hitachi-CP-S225W what format will the ps3 let me use.

Quite frankly i can't see the point of wasting money on either console or it's games,unless there is more work done on lessening the amount of freak'n glitches in games,me thinks the next two consoles after these ones is what to wait for,i wonder if the chips have something to do with it as apparently they're not as good as pc style chips and are limited in the functions they can perform and is the reason why the 360 and PS3 are a bit more harder to develop games for

the 360 is at best a ok console games are looking more diverse than the xbox but everything else of the 360 hurts the PS3 is a demon >>

Hey the jury is still out on Ps3. There are not enough systems out judge a good or bad launch . Over hype is a good word for the Ps3.

got another link for the People THAT DID NOT READ MY LINKS OR COMMENTS HERES ANOTHER LINK http://www.projectorcentral.com/Hitachi-CP-S225WAT.htm CAN YOU GUYS ANSWER MY QUESTION YOUR DEABTE IS NOT GETTING NO ONE ANY WHERE PLZ HELP ME WITH MY PROBLEM THANKS REALLY YOU CARES THAT THIS COULD DO THIS THE PS3 IS MORE EXPENSIVE BUT BETTER AND THE PROBLEMS THATS FOR EVERY SYSTEM BUT IF YOU HAVE A XBOX360 THEN GOOD FOR YOU SURE ITS CHEAPER BUT SONY HAS THE EDGE IF YOU LOVE M$ THEN GO HUMP BILL GATES AND LET YOUR DISK MELT IN YOUR TRAY LOL BIG UPS FOR PEOPLE THAT HELP ME AND PEOPLE THAT HATE ME THEN YOU JACK OFF TO YOUR COMPUTER PEACE OUT BRAMPTON FOR LIFE BIZACHES THATS IT NO MORE FIGHTING BEFORE I DEAL WITH THE HATERS A$$ES AND BESIDES THE PEOPLE THAT HATE THE PS3 CANT GET ONE AND AFFORD IT LOL PS3 RULES

UHALL I mean sony is evil from a corperation standpoint MS has managed to balance itself some while still bad its not the argonaut giant Sony has become ,the PS3 consoel so far is ok but no where near the 600 they want for it.

i have another tv will it work with the ps3 and at what res which will be better the projector or this tv http://www.epinions.com/pr-Sony_KP-46WT510_46_in_Rear_Projection_HDTV_Television/display_~full_specs

cashman91 No one knows just yet so stop posting....... or better yet make a thread make a thread in the PS3 forum and see if you can get a HDTV compatibility thread sticked....

@cashman91 Both your TV and projector should output at upto 720p for ps3 games, if you set it to. This only affects people whos TV has 480i 480p and 1080i but not 720p most sets have 720p built in (older TV's dont), in fact i havent been able to find one locally that doesnt. Compared to previous launches of different systems I think PS3 is having a relatively good one except for so fewer numbers, hasnt been any real serious hardware issues(except this article) or overheatings. @ZippyDSM congrats at becoming an Addict, still got a fair while to go for me.

In 720p vs 1080i, the latter is inferior. You WANT 720p, or 1080p, as either of those will actually display more simultaneous visual information and provide smoother motion. Also, these fools jumping on DVI/HDMI bandwagon thinking it's the best - time for a reality check. Quality Component Video Cables like ones from aviccable.com are *still* the best way to make your HDTV video connections - and the lack of DRM is pretty cool too!

cashman since your so smart , you should know the answer to your question. Remember no CAP locks , look at the forum rules.

Zippy I'm not bashing the Ps3, but until they have a substantial amount of systems out and running more than a couple of days I'm not convinced how great the Ps3 is. I have been hearing really good things on the Wii, one of my laborers picked up one this weekend and said he is blown away by the system.(It was suppose to be for his kid.)

UHALL I am not bashing the ps3 yet,just sony :P

Read:1080p-vs-1080i-article/" class="korostus" target="_blank">http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/07/04/cnet-asia-yet-another-1080p-vs-1080i-article/ O.K. we know this has been a topic of discusion before, but with Blu-ray and HD DVD here, it is definitly a good time to bring it back up. The classic 1080i vs 1080p argument. CNET Asia lays it out nice and easy for people to read. In the end though, they draw the same conclusion as everyone else though. If you are looking for bigger then a 60-inch, the extra resolution will make a huge difference as long as you give the HDTV the very best signal from your source. The smaller sets, lets say around 40 to 46-inches, meh, you really don't need it. If you notice a sharper picture it is probally due to the denser pixals that relate to how close you sit and not the higher resolution. Oh, and the article does point out a big stumbling block of 1080p HDTVs. Some don't accept the 1080p signal. *cough* Sony XBR1 SXRDs *cough* In the end is 1080p really that important? No, unless it is a very large screen.

Yea, I agree I am sick of sony.

PS3 is not worth the hype, Sony asked itself how to sell an average system with bugs that is only slightly better than Microsoft's next-gen machine that has been out for over a year, and how do we sell it for twice as much. The answer was only send a few to each store, forbid giving out presale tickets, hype it beyond reason and watch the crime spree from Japan. Only when gamers get it home to realize the games don't live up to the systems potential and when the hype wears off wish they could play Gears of War. Hmmm..now this is gonna upset some So-knee (sony) fanboys.

Javafriek WTF the 360 is a fcking MESS!! and so far the PS3 has had 2 bugs..at least try and get facts straight...

I got my facts straight..I said the PS3 had bugs and it does. I didn't say how many but 2 bugs is still bugs correct?

Javafriek the 360 has more than 6 hardware issues 2 software issues ,its games are lacking in fact the only worth while game for it jsut came out (Grears of war). While the PS3 is a demon the 360 is a nightmare both are crap when they want more than 350 a system. And lets not forget MSs saying you want need a bigger HD than 20 and locked the HD system to 20 and now they went and sign a streaming vid deal with hollywood...they don't have a fcking clue as to what they are doing.... Sony is so arrogant they don't care what they are doing 0-o Nintendo has shown their the only one s with brains or a heart(small)...but their balls(graphics) are a bit small and saggy.....oh well can't win them all *L*

For one I didn't buy my 360 to watch movies be it HD or streaming I bought it to play games, that's what it's for. The quality of the games on the 360 is what sells the system, I'm not saying the PS3 doesn't have quality games it's just not worth $599 i'm sorry. As for a PS3 being a "demon", I don't know if I want them in my house..I heard they smell.

the ps3's two ultra small bugs are easily fixable with firmware. the lack of the hardware upscaler is a HUGE kick in the balls from sony though, imnot sure how they are gunna fix that (if at all, looks like unless you buy a new HDTV your ps3 games will never ever be hd, thank you sony) you know why they did it, it was a double edged sword. ill bet that upscaler would have been one of the most expensive parts of the ps3s hardware had they put it in, and when they didnt they figured they could sell a few more 1080p tvs on the side. plus im pretty sure hd dvd is going to win in the end not blueray. and everyone needs to wake up, the ps3 does NOT cost 800 to make. thats a blantant load of ass. if it realy did they could simply show us the manufacturing records to prove it, instead they have some third party reasearch firm from asia that nobody has ever herd of say it costs 800. bull shit. yes i understand the concept of a loss leader but companies dont make 1 million -$200 loss leaders especialy whith the posobility that a crack might come out for the ps3 at any moment and they have no way of predicting when it will happen or how badly it will effect their bottom line. supose someone made a super easy crack for the ps3 tomarow that could simply be downloaded straight to the hard drive with no hardware mods, then games could be downloaded straight to the hd and played... sony would loose millions from the lack of people buying games. a company would never ever risk that ever. EVER!

Javafriek the 360 is 400 with HD the HD is kind of needed if you want patches and crap and thos are needed thus the 360 reeks as bad but more like downn cat than drown dog 0-o georgeluv Some reports say its more hardware but then sony could make a update that just spams/forces the mode thru the cableing its not like HDCP is up and runnign right now they have 3 or 5 years to hide and fix that issue. Its 60/40 that this can't be fixed by frimware (60 to being fixed) in the odd chance sony screwed up and this is a unfixable problem its still not as bad as the 360 nightmares. MS might be evil but Sony is full of evil fcks,they could have done so much about the price via making a fully upgradeable thing and tacting on another 200$ but no the fckers want to make a large all in one POC thing... (POC,price over cost,cost being want its worth to normal non fanboy gamers)

<they have 3 or 5 years to hide and fix that issue.> looks like they did a pretty bad job of hiding it, its been less than a week and the whole world knows about it. people are sick and tired of companies fucking with the hd standard.

georgeluv Not really most say its a frimware thing and can be fixed ,we wont really know if the hardware can even handle HDCP yet :3 remember HDCP needs a full digital cables to go thru to OK the higher resolutions. its going to be fun to see what Sony dosent do next...errr dose do 0-o

If price is a issue then Xbox 360 and PS3 average out to be the same price.I just seen not that long ago the Xbox 360 needs an HD-DVD drive adapter which costs roughly around $200 bucks.I think in the long run the Xbox 360 and the PS3 average out to be the same price.If you think about it the Xbox 360 isn't going to make there games all on a DVD-9,eventually they will switch to HD-DVD discs for there games in the future.I don't know about the rest of you,but my honest opinion is wait and be smart about it before jumping the gun.I don't think any of the consoles impress me at the moment.I'm not buying into all the hype I hear,and the price is definately not worth it for either system.I think maybe in the future it might be worth picking up,but getting one right now would be a waste of money.

L-Burna the HD DVD add on is not needed and as of yet no HD DVD gaming so the 360 is running a bit better game as it where but MS is still hopelessly lost To ME MS and Sony are around a 3 with the 360 barely clinging to a 4 the WII is a 6 its not great, however its good. NES 6 SNES 8 Genisis 7 GBA 6 DS 6 PSX 6 Saturn 5 DC 6 PS2 5 N64 6(if CD a 7 ,DVD a 8) Xbox 4 Mmm I guess I dont expect much from a console launch *L* After 2 or 3 years a console matures into its full score 2-3 points above the launch score hint they dont make 11's anymore :P

True I agree with your statements ZIppyDSM but if you think about it the XBox 360 isn't really a new console without the HD-DVD.I mean it is running like the regular Xbox,and eventually they will add games that are HD-DVD trust me.Microsoft is gonna try to get as much money as possible,and Sony will also follow.All console companies try to make more money,but they are tricky about it.The way they make the money is not really from the system,but from the games and add-ons.I mean the original Xbox could play DVD-9,and I can say all the games they released so far could probably run off the original Xbox.Another thing that pissed me off was the fact that you could play dvd movies off the original Xbox,but you had to buy a stupid dongle.I have to say Gears of War doesn't look bad,but from what I heard so far from friends the game is only like 8 hours long.I think on the other hand Oblivion is just a port from the PC.The Wii I can't even mess with as I have no clue what it is gonna be like,and I haven't played it only seen a commercial for it.I'm just saying I'm real disapointed with these consoles more hype then progress if you ask me.I don't know maybe the Wii might be the best for all I know,but I'm at the point where I'm losing interest in game consoles if it is gonna be like this.I normally get a game console for the games,but neither one has really shown enough games worth getting or really shown us anything great about the consoles.I don't really see anything new looking at them right now though,pretty sad this is what they come up with for next gen consoles.They have had alot of time to develop these systems,but the fact they want to add really new media for the consoles makes them real buggy.We got the PS3 which looks like a shiny George Foreman grill,and a white Xbox with a 360 sign on it.I don't see anything original from the controllers for them,and they aren't putting out any real good games.

L-Burna
As far as controllers go the PS2 had the best(non motion sensing) all the buttons are where you can get to them the Xbox controller is lacking so is the GCs,the 360 is a dual shock clone ,still the one great innovation in all the control formats I see missing is button mapping (try being disabled and playing a damn game,my brain forgets I am a south paw half the time and refuses to let my other thumb do the aiming) the WII is almost ambiguous but still devolved for right handed people frist,I see soem issues with the wii mote in the opposite hand and the buttons you have to get to quickly will be tricky to get to and such,if anything the WII has a minimalist approach to its controller design for better BWC they could have made something more like 2 numcucks or have a analog nub on the wii mote it deffinatly has a lesser amount of buttons witch will make porting more annoying ,the numb chuck could have a button or 2 on tis face..but then I am all about options not limits....
the GC V2.0 pad on the WII has a total of 12 buttons + Dpad + dual analog the WII mote with numbchuck has 7 or 9 buttons a analong stick and a Dpad...plus the 2 analog like motion sensing thingyies...mmmmm it dose add up....mmmm I guess the only thing holding it back is the lack of foresight in using the WII more as a GC pad for GC/N64 games all it would have tooken was to have the make a config setup to convert the wii mote properly into the pad you want to to emulate,if they added that and full button maping in the menu system so you can put the buttons where you want them (because devs never do) if they dd that the WII really would see to all control needs
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I see the 360 as a "hog pog" it a mix and match bag o parts and the more things MS tacts on to it the mre hog pog it becomes this is so frustrating because the game line for next year kinda peeks my interest.

Right now I am loathing sony and barely keeping an eye on sony the PS3 is over priced and over hyped and it aint going anywhere for acouple years so I can ignore it.

The 360 is not so bad but completely lost they don't have a clue where they are taking it or I should say they think DVD5/9 will get them thru the enxt few years sorry guys your are not Nintendo....if you don't fight the PS3 on even ground you will lose ,the market the way it is will only really support 2 main consoles,regardless of things Nintendo has enough something to survive MS can use its blood money to keep the 360 afloat it fails Sony can live off the PS2 name,basically I see all but nintendo living on past fame than doing soemthign new and great for gaming so much for actuality selling stuff to get by on they have enough cash each in their war chests to live the next 10 years on....

the way I look at it goes soemthign liek this

PS3 has the future but in the present it sucks and sucks bad.However its launch was "stable"....


The 360 is still a hog pog and nightmare,but with the hardware being replaced by the next revision soon and the new games coming out next year it has become "ok" but still 100 more than I would be wiling to pay,its future is bleek if they don't do HD gaming or or do more speed loading tricks with the HD the 360 will be a bastard system even at full power it will look only alittle better but still have loading issues as a next gen machine it fails as a current gen machine its bearly ok.

WII wii wii wii...I like the WII its sad its not really next gen but I like it why do I like it

-----Long arse anti innovation/square rant------
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a word that has 2 sides and most of the time send fear and terror throwout the hearts of gamers...and that is innovation ,when most games and things thump their cheats on innovation alone,its as scary as a Fat hairy guy in a sailor moon outfit asking if he is pretty...and when he asks...he means it.....Much like most of the "innovation" in most of the FF games sicne FF8 all of them but FF9 had that quirky "innovation" that made half the game or more suck in this case its a full 180 to the other side where things..... suck..... less...
-----Long arse anti innovation/square rant------
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The WII is going to revolutionize how we play video games for better or the or the worse they are going to try it and like with the N64 and the analog stick they might be on to something the only real downside to the WII is the lack luster engine its a shame they went on the cheap with it even if its just a bit more powerful than the Xbox its got a tough road ahead of it the 360 is at best 2 or 3 times better than it and the PS3 is a world away and the horde likes their graphics over games with great story's and better gameplay.....

I am telling everyone i know if your buying get a WII upgrade your comp or save your money the 360 and PS3 are not worth it yet.

i like more xbox 360 thats why i have xbox 360 :P

Why can’t the console haters go somewhere else to whine about what is better than what and leave the forums to the topics? If you like vanilla and I like chocolate which ice-cream is better? Well there are positives and negatives about both. But what if the cows that make the chocolate are evil oh no the ice-cream is bad. Wait a second all the cows are evil so just shut up and pick a flavor or like me pick both flavors and hate all the cows. Because the cows are laughing at you right now. The more everyone whines about each other the more press and the more they get attention. Every first generation product for years in the electronic field sucks because they rush to get it out not for your benefit but to make lots of money. You buy it whine about it and they slowly fix the problems and then they all seem to work just fine. I will have both when they release the GEN2 PS3. You know then I can sit in my living room and argue with my self about which one is better. Both boxes will be here through the duration neither will disappear but what will happen is the Blue ray/HD DVD war. This is the war where the consumer get screwed because two large corporate groups and feuding over an edge in the format wars. Regardless which one looses we the consumer will pay for both the successes and failures of both formats because strangely the corporations seem to always make their money. Right now the concern with the PS3 is to inform people that wish to purchase one and weather it will work and work correctly with their equipment. The rest of the posters need to go to the I am still 6 years old forum and they will change your diapers and provide you with tissue for when it gets heated up.

Look at where you are posting jverhey, read the article everybody is posting to its there opinion. Look at the other forums and go to the one that appeals to you. The only one crying is you.

Actually, jverhey's right in my little disinterested opinion. Simply put, most of the responders here are just whining and some of them are even being contradictory. There's also an evident whiff (or should I say retched stench) of Sony fanboyism too, considering the way a certain responder keeps calling the 360 a 'nightmare'. I wonder if he's even played a single game on the console, let alone experienced the delights of DOA4 tourneys via XBOX Live. I seriously doubt it. Oh and I don't own a 360 (yet, though Gears of War and COD3 are tempting me) so no assumptions please. I've owned all the oldies too and I'd say that the XBOX Japanese controller (the one that wasn't made for Andre the Giant) beat out the Dual Shock, while the Dreamcast 's was my personal fave prior to the XBOX Japanese. The Wii mote will be the most fun to use and most likely the more memorable in time to come. The 360's controller is just nice to use by comparison and seems weighted well considering it's battery life in WiFi mode. In light of the responses I wonder if any Sony devotees think that their announced 'pay as you go' content strategies (such as cars in GT) will work? I think not, especially in the West a market that works quickly to circumvent anti-piracy measures and even lobbies against such measures via legal and federal means. I dunno about you lot but I seriously see Sony as having backed a badly reared and expensively bred horse this time around and this 'bug' that some people are downplaying (lack of an upscaler can't and should never be just skipped in hardware by forcing output modes, it breaks with standards and can lead to issues in the display devices too) is really another example of either poor R&D or shameless marketeering by Sony - two things that they have been found guilty of many times in the past. Shame on you Sony, you bunch of mad cows :P

DR34MER so you are saying MS has done nothing wrong and the 360 is a next gen system..... I really hate the buyable content thats going to hurt games even they are ack enough on qauilty as it is...but the thought of buying mods to complete a game makes me sick.....and dont tell me they wont try it either... Oh please the only thing the Xbox controler has over the dual shock is stiffness and sensitivity but the lack of 2 shoulder fie buttons hurts it ,as you can see on the 360 the Black and white buttons where made into shoulder buttons fixing that,Sonys motion sensing gimmick is weak. Not seen the HD DVD add on have you? its as screw up as sonys BR player so please theres little diffrance in MS and sony.....at least MS knew the 360 couldnt sale at a price higher than 450 *L* Sony went ovrboard on the PS3 and did notgive enough buy options while the BR will help it in the long run the 600$ price tag will hurt it in the short trem...in the end I see it gathering up msot of the games again....whitch is annoying....the PS3 is a media center not a game machine....the 360 is hopg pog of stuff small without HD DVD gaming or HD cacheing for load times nd to improve textures the 360 will show its age in 2-3 years..... To me the WII is everything gaming should be, I will be getting one first unless I can come across a cheap 360. both the PS3 and 360 lack innovation and focus to much off of gameing they cost to much then want you to buy more stuff online blah they can go paly with them selfs...

Zippy:- "so you are saying MS has done nothing wrong and the 360 is a next gen system....." No I'm not saying MS did nothing wrong, but almost all technology consumer products are released in unfinished state, as jverhey already pointed out. For example look at how many PSX's and PS2's were continually revised and re-released. To the second part I can only ask you, even when compared to the toughest of PC's, how many of those had DirectX Next (DX10) GPUs and 6 way Multi-core CPUs when the XBOX 360 was released. Even now the best nextgen PC gamers can hope for is 4 Way Quad Core, which isn't supported by any decent game engine yet. Admittedly the 360 lacks a High Density DVD storage/playback feature out of the box, but then so do PC's, and if Sony has backed the wrong standard, which only time will tell, then Blu-ray could be a lemon too and hardly something (for Sony fanboys such as yourself) to crow about. "Not seen the HD DVD add on have you? its as screw up as sonys BR player so please theres little diffrance in MS and sony" There's a world of difference between them, MS are still relatively new to the console market yet XBOX Live beats anything Sony has put online to date. Furthermore, with all the experience and return customers they have gained, Sony should have priced the PS3 more fairly, but it seems that they would prefer that their customers get screwed right now and in the mid and longer terms - as all of their strategies look as if they are geared to get the most of customers now (expensive PS3 pricing, forcing ppl to upgrade to 720P/1080P HDMI capable TVs) and in the future (pay as you go content, billable online service, Sony will release Blu-ray Hollywood/TV DVD content via FOX and themselves). At least MS have been upfront with how they charge and what they will charge for in the future, also they don't want to charge like wounded bulls - or Mad Cows in this case. :P "the 360 is hopg pog of stuff small without HD DVD gaming or HD cacheing for load times nd to improve textures the 360 will show its age in 2-3 years" Hodge Podge (please stop murdering it) of small stuff? The console is small, granted, but the 'stuff' is BIG NEWS and CUTTING EDGE tech. I gather you know very little about GPU and CPU technology, so I'll just say that in 2-3 year time it will show it's potential well (it took the PS2 and original XBOX just as long to show theirs). HD Caching for load times DOES EXIST in XBOX 360, it caches game content all the time, but I fail to see how it's use could 'improve textures' with 512MB of GPU RAM available at any given time. Not sure where you've been but 'textures' have been replaced with 'shaders' in modern games and both the 360 and PS3's GPUs have more than enough RAM to cope with HEAPS of DETAIL - even moreso than the latest ATI X1950 or NV 8800 PC VGA cards. Oh Zippy and in terms of your scale of release earlier, I'd place the Dreamcast well above the N64 in terms of innovation, quality of gfx and games. Also, how harsh are you? Don't you ENJOY your gaming that much? You seem more preoccupied with concepts of VALUE and HIGH TECH rather than the games and the GAMEPLAY. You sure the Wii will really be right for you? ....

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Sony should have priced the PS3 more fairly, but it seems that they would prefer that their customers get screwed right now and in the mid and longer term

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The reason its priced as it is is so Sony actually stay around long enough to create more than just the 400,000 launch units, it costs alot more than $600 to make so Sony are at about a $100-$200 loss per system. The thing with Sony online is it can be upgraded/changed whenever they want it to, so LIVE might still be better than what they have now but its not hard to change. The PS3 has SOFTWARE issues which are a lot less important than hardware ones, software can be fixed hardware cant really without everyone having to send it in to get upgraded.

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forcing ppl to upgrade to 720P/1080P HDMI capable TVs

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They arent forcing anyone to upgrade anything you can play it on a SDTV with still good quality picture, how many HDTV's only have 480i, 480p and 1080i? nearly all of them from the last few years have 720p. Also 720p is superior to 1080i. But again its a software issue (is also lacking down converter but could be fixed with firmware update) it can be fixed. BWC also software issue will be fixed with an update.

Also before you say im a Sony fanboy, im not i have been screwed over by PS2 disc read error to many times to like Sony. MS I also dont like because of their piece of crap OS. So im on neither side in the PS3 vs Xbox 360 war, just an observer.

Andrew, you are definitely a Sony fanboy. Either that or you work for them as a viral marketer. There would be no other reason for you to defend their poor/unfair/shortsighted choices in such a corporate fashion. "The reason its priced as it is is so Sony actually stay around long enough to create more than just the 400,000 launch units, it costs alot more than $600 to make so Sony are at about a $100-$200 loss per system." You KNOW THIS FOR A FACT? I'd say that this is a ridiculous assumption. Every console is sold as a loss leader (where game licenses and accessories bring real profit) and the PS3 is no different. My guess is that Sony would rather recoup more of this loss more quickly seeing as they have a more competitive market this time around. "The thing with Sony online is it can be upgraded/changed whenever they want it to, so LIVE might still be better than what they have now but its not hard to change." Once again, PROVE IT. Otherwise you're just talking hot air. Infrastructure costs are EXPENSIVE, especially when it comes to setting up an online business - bandwidth and storage being two of the biggest hurdles to overcome. If Sony needs to rethink their online strategy they better do it sooner than later as much of their online product (Star Wars Galaxies for example) has been overshadowed by free (Planescape etc) and more successful independent (World of Warcraft) competition. "The PS3 has SOFTWARE issues which are a lot less important than hardware ones, software can be fixed hardware cant really without everyone having to send it in to get upgraded." While I don't disagree with this in principle, I don't see a lack of hardware scaler as a software issue. Yes, it could probably be overcome with tweaks but then that wouldn't keep HD standards in place and it will create issues for some customers in future. Tweaks and kludges are not reflective of good R&D at all, nor do they engender confidence in the end product. "Also 720p is superior to 1080i" Actually it just has more lines (720 vs 540, that's 180 more lines HORIZONTALLY) and Progressive picture quality, on an LCD the latter means diddly squat as LCD always do Progressive processing internally. The fact is that many older/cheaper HD TVs do not support 720p, especially outside of the US, so what are those customers to do, just suffer at 480i when their sets can do 1080i? Not good enough. Sorry Andrew, but you certainly don't seem like a casual oberserver.

Originally posted by DR34MER:

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Zippy:-

"so you are saying MS has done nothing wrong and the 360 is a next gen system....."

No I'm not saying MS did nothing wrong, but almost all technology consumer products are released in unfinished state, as jverhey already pointed out. For example look at how many PSX's and PS2's were continually revised and re-released.

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The 360 launch/hardware makes the PS2 DRE's look great,add to it buggy launch titles like Quake 4...even today ts still walking off the damage the crappy launch did to it.

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To the second part I can only ask you, even when compared to the toughest of PC's, how many of those had DirectX Next (DX10) GPUs and 6 way Multi-core CPUs when the XBOX 360 was released. Even now the best nextgen PC gamers can hope for is 4 Way Quad Core, which isn't supported by any decent game engine yet. Admittedly the 360 lacks a High Density DVD storage/playback feature out of the box, but then so do PC's, and if Sony has backed the wrong standard, which only time will tell, then Blu-ray could be a lemon too and hardly something (for Sony fanboys such as yourself) to crow about.

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My main problem for the 360 is
1.bad hardware (being revised in feb so thats nto a big issues anymore)
2.future(MS can only make it so far on the games its buys off and steals from the PC like Halo) also loading times and other issues whitch will only get worse as games get bigger.

3.Games the 360 will still have the same issue of game deveristy the Xbox had.

4.Price 300+ still a bit to much as the system is right now.

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"Not seen the HD DVD add on have you? its as screw up as sonys BR player so please theres little diffrance in MS and sony"

There's a world of difference between them, MS are still relatively new to the console market yet XBOX Live beats anything Sony has put online to date. Furthermore, with all the experience and return customers they have gained, Sony should have priced the PS3 more fairly, but it seems that they would prefer that their customers get screwed right now and in the mid and longer terms - as all of their strategies look as if they are geared to get the most of customers now (expensive PS3 pricing, forcing ppl to upgrade to 720P/1080P HDMI capable TVs) and in the future (pay as you go content, billable online service, Sony will release Blu-ray Hollywood/TV DVD content via FOX and themselves).

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Ignored my statment did we MR MS fanboy? :P
Not seen the HD DVD add on have you?,its as fickle and quirky as sonys so as of yet theres little diffrence in them in HD/BR palyback them both have issues,all can be fixed via frimware and such but still...it should be better at the rices they have set (500-600 PS3,500-550 for the 360 with HDVD add on)

Granted Live was good however Sonys new setup hasnot been fully tested thus it can not be fully judged till feb or march.

BOTH SOny and MS want you to buy more content in order to finish a game,Sony on the other hand is so fcking arrogant that they think people will eat up their system and sadly the gaming horde will ;_;

Both MS and Sony are lost on how to give the people a coherent and working system,to me MS is more so because of the limited HD,questionable future plans next gen gaming.

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At least MS have been upfront with how they charge and what they will charge for in the future, also they don't want to charge like wounded bulls - or Mad Cows in this case. :P

"the 360 is hopg pog of stuff small without HD DVD gaming or HD cacheing for load times nd to improve textures the 360 will show its age in 2-3 years"

Hodge Podge (please stop murdering it) of small stuff? The console is small, granted, but the 'stuff' is BIG NEWS and CUTTING EDGE tech. I gather you know very little about GPU and CPU technology, so I'll just say that in 2-3 year time it will show it's potential well (it took the PS2 and original XBOX just as long to show theirs). HD Caching for load times DOES EXIST in XBOX 360, it caches game content all the time, but I fail to see how it's use could 'improve textures' with 512MB of GPU RAM available at any given time. Not sure where you've been but 'textures' have been replaced with 'shaders' in modern games and both the 360 and PS3's GPUs have more than enough RAM to cope with HEAPS of DETAIL - even moreso than the latest ATI X1950 or NV 8800 PC VGA cards.

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If they have fully implemented HD caching then they should just stop now and move on to HD DVD gaming because its not helping the load times,maybe with the new HD they an do soemthign better but thats more money into the thing.
Compression of textures and stuff is a major problem on newer games look at Oblivion on the 360 and the PC and no not on a new super gaming PC either...

Mind you I am judgeing the 360 on its "current" games I know ti has at least 1/2 more power hidieng in it,Gear of war is one of the frist few to use the most of the 360s power,from there it might have alittle more,so in 2-3 more years it will be maxed out,the PS3 is a bit diffrent it can do "todays"(GrearsOW) 360 games out of the box and will only get better the PS3 simply has more power,not only dose it have more power but all the devs will be clinging to it like the PS2 that means the 360 is even more out of luck,BUT unlike the xbox days the 360 seems to have more devs and more types of games,if they can do something about the load times and such I will see even less diffracne in the 360 and PS3.

I am not focusing on games much just yet,both systems are new and dont have enough of games to fully judge them,currently I am judging the systems by power and potential the PS3 has the power and will have the games but Sony's arrogance has almost made me quite gaming the 360 is a hodge podge but its picked itself off the floor and is limping along well I am still not happy with it but meh I am like that,the WII seems to be the most balanced of the lot giving up alittle power to stay lite,cheaper and more innovative

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Oh Zippy and in terms of your scale of release earlier, I'd place the Dreamcast well above the N64 in terms of innovation, quality of gfx and games. Also, how harsh are you? Don't you ENJOY your gaming that much? You seem more preoccupied with concepts of VALUE and HIGH TECH rather than the games and the GAMEPLAY. You sure the Wii will really be right for you?

....

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the DC was one hell of a system its a shame sega went to hell after begin forced to drop the DC,the N64 did a few things better hardware and the analog stick but was crushed by not moving to CD/DVD.
the DC came after it and after dual shock was in use so it borrowed some of its ideas,hell if anything the DC is soemthign like what nintendo would have made if they didnt stick to the damn carts *L*

As for enjoying games..I dunno over the past 5 or 6 years I see devs getting more and more lacks on creativity and design going for physics over level design and graphics over gameplay I dont know i things will improve any in this 7th generation of gaming...

So tell me oh great one what my basis is?
It seems thats one of your focuses.
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Andrew691
Sony easily could have made the PS3 HDMI port a add on and then charge 190 for it while cutting the pork off the PS3 to make it lean and mean...its fat and not very limber.
The PS3 would have been perfect if they cut it up into parts
Core with 20GB,usb,BT,Ethernet,1 wired pad for 299
Core with 60GB,usb,BT,Ethernet,1 wireless pad for 399
Card reader 50
wi fi 50
HDMI 190 (with cable even)

Sony could have done alot but like MS got lost and came out with half arsed systems...*sigh*

Zippy:- 1. Halo comes from the Macintosh, NOT the PC. Bungie were a Mac software company who diversified to PC yes, but Halo was launched at Macworld. 2. Your issue of 'bad hardware' with the 360, will be levelled at the PS3 and was certainly true for the PS2 (who's ignoring who's posts Sony fanboy?) in terms of the laser, the drives and overheating, so please have some PERSPECTIVE. 3. As for MS only being able to 'make it so far' (from the games it LICENSES, the same argument could be levelled at Sony. It's called EXCLUSIVITY and until recently SQUARE and ROCKSTAR were two such software houses who did games ONLY for Sony hardware first, everyone else later. Even their most exclusive partner Hideo Kojima (KONAMI, creator of Metal Gear games) is jumping ship showing lots of interest in N's Wii in the press. I wonder how far Sony will make it having only a spare few exclusives to launch from. 4. Who gives a rat's patout about QUAKE IV. It's long forgotten, people move on. 5. Texture Compression needing a larger hard drive??? What the hell are you talking about? Oblivion looks great for a PC port, especially in 720p, much better than the same on PC, especially in terms of the character faces. It also animates better on 360. Once again, we're talking SHADERS (which has nothing to do with the animation per se) and not TEXTURES. Texture Compression is OLD TECHNOLOGY these days and barely raises an eyebrow in developer circles since GPUs have been doing it in hardware for around 5 years. The issues that Oblivion has on the PC are more to do with it's MEMORY BANDWIDTH and the many CUSTOM TEXTURE SETS that people use willy nilly - not realising how they impact performance (by eating GPU bandwidth). The 360 doesn't suffer from either (It has 10MB of VRAM DEDICATED to ANISO16x/AF4X and heaps of VRAM speed/bandwidth FAR surpassing even the beefiest of PCs). 6. HD-DVD addon comments weren't ignored they were put aside because you're pulling something INTO an argument that hasn't even been released yet. It's obvious that you're doing so to protect your views on Sony and to equalise MS and Sony - making them both bad when this article clearly talks about a failure on Sony's part. Lame is the only word that comes to mind. 7. Disappointed with gameplay innovation? Do something about it. Don't pitch a fit that developers aren't being imaginative enough for your mind. Industries go through growth spurts in certain areas and plateau in others - the games industry is one such industry and there are only a finite number of minds and hours available. Personally I just think you're enjoying having something to moan about. LOL

DR34MER 1.Halo was sloted for PC before MS came along and gobbled it up for the Xbox. 2.the PS2 did have alot of issues so dose the 360 that has not changed,not at least till the new hardware rolls out.but still they could ahve done better to deal wit such thigns insted of release it willy nilly like sony did with the PS2. the PS3 needs at least 4 months of wet fanboy love before they start whineing about it breaking..like they did with the 360 and the PS2. 3.I see the 360 hitting its limit before the PS3 dose this is a issues but in all the power diffrance between the 360 and PS3 are like the PS2 and Xbox its enough to bitch about *L* 4.I cant move on I got Q4 for PC 50$ for oen of the most under par FPS's I have ever played,and becuse it was so under whelming I gave up on paying games new...altho BIoshock makes me rethink that *L* 5.MMmm mabye I am running on old info....in order to store and cache more games on the 360 a larger HD is needed and if you have acouple movies on it....the 360 as it is not is short on space....Mmmmmmmm the new revision comes out in feb right? 6.IGN has a review of it several Xbox.coms has reviews of it are sayign that they would lie and say its better than it is?or diss it in some way? Beside in 4 years the 360 wont be able to play most HDCP movies or play the at a limited resalution becuse it lacks HDMI,of coarse the PS3 seems to be having some issues in that aera right now to *L* 7.Are you saying its hard to question most devs and manufacturers? I find it hard not to Sony and MS are meandering off into the same lack luster media center direction and the WII is the only one to show alittle gaming beef....the WII has beef but its lite beef *L*

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6. HD-DVD addon comments weren't ignored they were put aside because you're pulling something INTO an argument that hasn't even been released yet.

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Actually it has been released.

Im normally a hardcore gamer but recently i havent been into it as much, and am thinking of nearly skipping the whole of this gen out completely or maybe getting one in a few years. Dont have enough money to keep up with my habit.

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3. As for MS only being able to 'make it so far' (from the games it LICENSES, the same argument could be levelled at Sony. It's called EXCLUSIVITY and until recently SQUARE and ROCKSTAR were two such software houses who did games ONLY for Sony hardware first, everyone else later. Even their most exclusive partner Hideo Kojima (KONAMI, creator of Metal Gear games) is jumping ship showing lots of interest in N's Wii in the press. I wonder how far Sony will make it having only a spare few exclusives to launch from.

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It costs a LOT of money to keep a game exclusive, even then the devs could probably get more money from releasing it on both systems. So Sony would be forking out even more money just to keep exclusives, once the dev's saw the abilities of the 360 it changed their minds.

Very few games these days have anything new, with the exception of the WII with its controller nothing has really changed in games but graphics.

The fact that only with the last few versions of PS2 have they bothered to fix the laser issues really pisses me off, they've revised the system 10 times before it got slim then another 6 as slim aonly the last 3 versions have been any good.

...and Halo made it to PC, eventually. so what's the beef? I mean the same can be said about GTA III which took almost as long to reach PC. How much time have you actually spent with a 360? I had one to play with since the launch for about a month or so. It overheated a total of 0 times, lost transfers twice while over the internet and never gave me any other issues. I hammered the poor thing, I really did. Seriously, be sure you're not just relaying fearful stories that others are just relaying. I'm not saying that they don't have issues, I just don't see them as being as epidemic or worrying as you're making out. The 360 is going through a revision, yes, but I'd say that more likely a cost saving exercise more than a total overhaul to fix bugs. Most probably MS has found ways to fab the console more cheaply with less parts (most likely the cooler is being shrunk down and some chips being replaced for cheaper variants) - this is what Sony AND MS do with their hardware all the time. Sega and Nintendo have been known to do so too.

Andrew : My bad, been catching up on real life recently (father diagnosed with an illness, GF leaving the country) so I missed it's release date/reviews. HD Video seems a bit of a lame duck at the mo anyway imho with 5 + competing standards - Blu-ray, HD-DVD, WMV HD and DivX6/Xvid and x264/AVC/VC-1. I think I'll just skip the pay for ones and use compressed video for now. I know you lose detail, but not DINERO! :P heh

DR34MER after how many years of milking it for the Xbox? only now Halo 2 is going to be on PC but for vister only heil MS hiel! >< whoa whoa whoa...the revision for the 360 is a PLUS it means less than a 50/50 chance to get a bum 360 when you buy one I have had 6 friends replace there system and heard alot of horror story's of it,to me that was a big issue spending 400$ on a system only to have to send it in for repair or some crap. with the new revision thats fixed one down 2 or 3 to go to make it prefect :P (games and price are the next 2 big issues) I am tired of corporate dcking around MS and SOny are pros at it nintendo is sly enough not to get cought alot *L* I am harshest on the 360 its been out the longest and has not improved much in 4 or 5 months I think it will get as good as its going to get for the system probably enough for me to buy it,Sony is evil and the PS3 to costly...so I think I will sit back and toss poo at it for awhile *L* that or ignore it till next November *L* I have kept up with the HD/BR news it seems HD dvd and its players are just alittle bit better than the BR but not worth jumping on one format or the other 0-o the only thign BR has is size and they are not useing it to help beat compression I wonder if they re still having DL issues 0-o Good luck in life friend,both my parents passed away last year one of liver canser in march and the other of lung desaige we were all living together getting by in life, I been kinda out of it since >< I was already out of it before then 0-o Andrew691 at my last count its 11 PS2 revisions,5 PS2 slim revisions and counting 0-o

Andrew691 it suxs not to ahve the moeny. I wil get each system it might take a year to get each tho >< right now I am happy with playing demos and checking out what friends of my friend has :P Gears of War PC looks ok I might tag that but I do know this..I MUST GET BIOSHOCK PC there is no questioning the voices in my head over it its a must get 0-o

Let's BIOSHOCK actually gets released, after what happened to RatBagGames there's no guarantee anymore. :( Yeah already lost one to the C too n Dad's got emphysema. :( Life's a bitch then people start leaving....

heres a link for Sony losing $200 per console http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-a-bargain-worth-840-powerful-as-a-supercomputer-215203.php

For one thing that pricing looks over-inflated and barely reflects volume discounts and for another what kind of company tells their consumers what something cost them to produce? No company does that and thus it's purely a marketing gimmick.

Andrew691 then let me put XP o it and make use of the dman thing :P

Zippy as of last check Gears ISNT coming to PC. Also someone mentioned the 360 doesnt have HD-Gaming.. where the hell are you getting your source. 360 outputs up to 1080p. (some TV's only accept 1080p over HDMI or DVI but lots including mine accept it over the component) and I must say it looks GOOD The lack of HDMI on the 360 is a bit of an issue. But the A/V port on the 360 doesnt output an analog signal and an HDMI cable/adapter can be added when there is a need. This is one thing I find better of the 360 over my PS3. It doesnt FORCE HD and CHARGE you for HD tech that a user (majority of users) with SDTV's aren't going to use. The 360 allows you to make the choice to add that later if you get a HDTV. The current lack of need for either a HDDVD or BRDisc make both points moot ATM. Thing is people tend to say if you want to get an HD-DVD then the 360 is almost the same price.. Again.. $200 off because they arent forcing you to adopt a tech you cannot use isnt horrible at all. Lburna saying the 360 isnt a nextgen console without the HD-DVD is just buying into Sony's propaganda.. The 360 outputs in HighDef, currently my 360 games look better then my PS3 games.. COD3 in particular has large diffrences, with RR much better looking on the 360. Granted the 360 had a year more for devers to get used to it.. but did the Xbox 1 when released (a year later then PS2) not have better looking graphics then the PS2 did after a year.. sure did. Also while Halo started out live on Mac as an RTS/FPS hybrid, then moved to PC, Bungie ran out of money for it and MS stepped in and said well here.. If not for MS STEALING it (LOL) it may never have seen the light of day. The matter of this thread is Sony not allowing users of certain TV's the upscaling ability. Not what Wii has or 320 has. Most of the comments that people are leaving are fanboy tripe. I buy into all consoles, cause I am a GAMER, but again like last gen SONY has underdelivered. Microsoft has delivered (so far) what they said, and Ninty, well ninty is still fun to play :D WEEEEE

LOL 320... should read 360... but then you already knew that :P

Phoenix09 Yes GROW is coming to PC,its not been confrimed yet but it should if it dosent so be it but its not been denied yet. I believe they meant HD DVD gaming not High def gaming the more I read abotu it 1-4 discs for a game is not new,HD cacheing can get better the 360 still has power left in it unused plus the 360 is better preiced than the PS3 but not enough to make it worth while for me.... if the 360 was launched a year later with more solid titles(coding as wel) and better launch hardware and full BWC it would have been worth 500 at launch as it is now its a still a hodge podge,the revision is a plus more games is a plus the price still needs to drop hell drop the core altogether and make the premi 250-300,get down and dirty and fight the Wii on price and massicure the PS3 price wise *L*

lol Hell I agree with that.. MS is actually making money now on the 360 due to their ability to use 5 firms to make the chips and having standerd hardware... They can actually afford to drop the price $112 and break even on it.. and then ya it will push hard. But MS isnt ready to push out Sony. Not this go around.. there is things to be said about competition. Also, while I enjoy the Wii, I will never call it or compare it to a next gen console. It isn't and its not inovative at all, I have my MS Motion Sensing controller from the mid 90's. Its fun, but its not next gen at all. It is to the point now where the PS3 and 360 are in their own 2 man race... Wii is just going down its own path, and having fun doing it.. kinda like the simple brother of the two smart twins. They are always fighting one another and he is catching butterflies with a remote control :P LOL Sorry I am not meaning to dis the Wii.. I like it :P It 's just not nextgen.

Phoenix09 neither is the 360 it's current gen(PC wise) in every sicne of it,the PS3 is not current gen. the WII is a 1.5 system in power and so is the 360 well the more I look at its more a 1.7 system, *L* the PS3 a 2.5 system but between the price and sony I hate it 0-o,altho there are no worthy games so I can snub it even more :P In the end the WII gets a o.5 point bonus because it makes full use of motion sensing if you cant understand that then you have no sense of things,the WII is leaps and bounds beyond any motion sensing gimmick thats been used over the years,the PS3 now theres a "gimmick" its updated tilt and play from the gameboy 0-o I'll give MS props for seeing that 2 shoulder pads to each side is the way to make a pad (I hate where the Xbox black and white buttons are) but its more of the same no innovation in control just more of the same the same can be said for the PS3 the WII wins alone because of the complete new control scheme ,the PS3 will win for power and games leavening the 360 to lord over its fan base and thos that get it for its Exclusive titles.

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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cashman91
No one knows just yet so stop posting.......
or better yet make a thread make a thread in the PS3 forum and see if you can get a HDTV compatibility thread sticked....

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any answers yet

I dont understand how you can think the PS3 is a 2.5 or anything more then it is... the PS2 when announced was said that its 'EMOTION' processor could run the same as a P3 733Mhz and output Toystory quality gfx. Same with the PS3.. they stated possible top proformance.. but their propriety tech couldnt do it. Same with the PS3.. their unproven propriety tech doesnt have remotely what they said it would have. I got this from another site but it is well worth the read so I will post here as well. /Quote There has been a long (and quite ridiculous) debate going on throughout this past year concerning the power of the xbox 360 vs. the power of the ps3. Why has this debate been absolutely ridiculous? Because the truly more powerful system has already been confirmed, but not publicly. Much of this may be very hard to understand if you’re not a tech-geek, so don’t say I didn’t warn you. According to IBM’s white pages, the cell processor being used in the ps3 is considerably less powerful than what it has been hyped up to be. Sony officially revealed the PS3 and for the first time at E3 2005, and claimed that their Cell processor would be capable of 200 GFLOPS. One may wonder how they got that figure?  IBM's own white pages: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerwork...ca=drs-#table4 As seen from the link (in Figure 5) the Cell has a theoretical peak of 201 GFLOP’s– running 8 SPE’s at 25.12 GFLOP’s apiece (Table 2). This is where Sony gets their 200 GFLOP figure from. When physically tested however, only 155.5 GFLOP’s were actually achieved (see Table 4) with a total efficiency rate of 75.9%. Because of manufacturing yield issues, the PS3 will only use 7 SPE’s with the theoretical peak for the PS3’s Cell processor being reduced to 176 GFLOP’s, each running at 25.12 GFLOP’s. Utilizing the same 75.9% efficiency, it is easily interpolated that the PS3’s Cell CPU will only be capable of 133.6 GFLOP’s. The Xbox 360 has 3 general-purpose 2-threaded CPU's, which generates a proven 115.2 GFLOP’s which is dramatically easier for developers to utilize. By now it should be pathetically obvious that sony is no where near as far ahead as they try to lead you to think (keep in mind they claimed that the ps2 was more powerful than the original xbox, but were proven wrong publicly, since the xbox was indeed twice as powerful). The ps3 will, once you have taken into account thetotal amount of resources that will be used by their respective operating systems, end up with less CPU power available for graphical and physics processing than the 360. http://ps3.qj.net/Inside-the-PS3-s-O...g/49/aid/21047 According to the (unbiased) site above, the PS3 will also constantly reserve 1 SPE** for running its operating system. Now that there is actually one less SPE reserved for gaming purposes, it is definite that the ps3’s cell will only be capable of 114.4 GFLOP’s for the purpose of game processing. **SPE’s are floating point processors, they are also called DSP’s, and SPU’s. These floating point processors are NOT to be confused with cores, cores have far more prediction and calculation braches than floating point processors. As stated earlier, the 360 has 3 cores, each running at 3.2GHz, with 2 threads each. The cell also runs at 3.2GHz, but is the one and only core that the ps3 has. Back to subject: The 360’s OS on the other hand uses only 3% of its CPU time on Cores 1 and 2, while Core 0 is free altogether, and 6.25% (32mb) of its 512mb RAM, this means that the 360 has more processing power available for in-game graphics and physics. Meanwhile, the ps3’s OS… “In the case of the PS3 this equates to 12.5% of the available Cores on the CPU always reserved, an additional 12.5% sometimes taken by the OS, 12.5% of the available RSX memory and 25% of XDR Cell memory. Balancing these out, one could argue that Sony has removed up to 25% of the available CPU power and 18.75% of RAM for these features as well as others that are not mentioned here or will be added in future updates to the PS3 Operation System.” Wow, 18.75% (96mb) of the ps3’s 512mb of total RAM, vs. 6.25% (32mb) of the 360’s 512mb RAM, say, that means the ps3 has 416mb RAM left vs. the 360’s leftover 490mb RAM for graphics… I could be wrong, but isn’t 490mb greater than 416mb??? Sources: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060413-6600.html http://ps3.qj.net/Inside-the-PS3-s-O...g/49/aid/21047. Now, the GPU (Graphics Processing unit). The 360’s Xenos GPU is also slightly more powerful for running current graphics engines and, in terms of complying with Windows Graphic Foundation 2.0 (compatible with future versions of Direct X, shader models, etc.) is a full-generation ahead of the RSX. "One of the key ideas behind a unified architecture is to move the GPU from a rendering only processor to a complete compute processor. Right now all the GPU does is render 3D and displays it on your screen (yes it does more like 2D, video etc... but for the point of this article we are talking about 3D). With a unified architecture the GPU becomes more. It becomes a processor that can do almost anything that needs code processed. This means the GPU can take on more functions like physics, AI, animation and many other processes that can benefit the gaming experience. DirectX 10 and a unified GPU architecture helps a video card become an all-in-one Swiss army knife of game processing. Those are the ideas at least, how it all works out is up to the game content developers" (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...0aHVzaWFzdA==). According to this article, the unified memory of the 360 and the unified shaders, developers have the ability to use the vector processing power of the GPU, which is a big plus as it allows the developer to use the shaders when they need extra processing power. Sony could be in a lot of trouble considering the ps3 is much more expensive than its superior rival that is using long proven technology, while the ps3 is using technology that still has yet to be proven, and has been giving sony one problem after another, causing the launch delays. The 360’s Xenos GPU is slightly more powerful for running current graphics engines and, in terms of complying with Windows Graphic Foundation 2.0 (compatible with future versions of Direct X, shader models, etc.) is a full-generation ahead of the RSX. "One of the key ideas behind a unified architecture is to move the GPU from a rendering only processor to a complete compute processor. Right now all the GPU does is render 3D and displays it on your screen (yes it does more like 2D, video etc... but for the point of this article we are talking about 3D). With a unified architecture the GPU becomes more. It becomes a processor that can do almost anything that needs code processed. This means the GPU can take on more functions like physics, AI, animation and many other processes that can benefit the gaming experience. DirectX 10 and a unified GPU architecture helps a video card become an all-in-one Swiss army knife of game processing. Those are the ideas at least, how it all works out is up to the game content developers" "However, using Sony's claim <***>, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock. *** Using sony's own claim against it. If sony really didnt make this claim, they most certainly would have taken legal action against MS, that is only fact. It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS." ps3 GPU stands at 228.8 GFLOPS 360 GPU stands at 240.0 GFLOPS I could be wrong, but isn't 240.0 GFLOPS higher than 228.8 GFLOPS??? /END QUOTE Not to mention other sites are putting the PS3 up agains a 1.6Ghz PowerMac and reciving startling results.. http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/11/playstation-3-performance/ Technically that should be far more powerful, the fact is the SPE's arent cores but FPU's (floating point units. The only thing that the PS3 has over 360 is BluRay and that in itself is almost moot at this time because of the LACK of people with HDTV. Aside from that its nothing great.. That said the Cell runs on a base IBM G5 chip tricked out to Sony's thoughts.. the 360 also runs on it tricked out to MS thoughts.. The video card in the PS3 (named RSX) in just a Nvidia 6600 with a new name, and the one in the 360 is pretty much a ATI X1600XTX. While PC's are currently now moving into the 4x4 stage, they werent a year ago, and for that matter PC's have a next gen every few weeks... when talking nextgen consoles PC's arent part of that. As well as that the 360 contains a subset of DX10 as well as the XNA tech. Crysis is coming to 360 (confirmed)and looks just as good as its PC counterpart. http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1396/Crysis/ As for GoW, MS has officially stated it WILL not be brought to PC.. Even tho Epic made it.. MS owns the property.. tis their choice. But we do know that MS likes to say no then surprise us later.. so this is still in the air.. but as of right now.. they say NO version of GoW for PC.

Phoenix09
Mmmm didn't do their coding homework that means it will take a year just to get games up to snuff...
But I am not looking at power alone,and since there are various coding techniques they can get a 50% boost but again cant judge the PS3 fully for another 6ish months it needs more units sold more games on it and more reviews of games and online.

PS3
1.0 BR(Like it or not)
1.0 hardware
0.5 hardware extras (HDMI)
---------------------------
360
0.8 hardware
0.5 hardware extras (HD DVD add on)
0.4 extras (fast stable onine)
---------------------------
WII
7.5 Controller (like it or not)
7.5 hardware


from everything I have sen the PS3 has more power(at 50% more than 360 at launch,and probably 30% more than 360s max) however I am unsure if it has it out of the box it should for that price but who knows.

Now that the PS3 is out we will know its true power soon enough.
If its not more powerful even more reason sony suxs

Zippy, just the RAM bottleneck alone restricts its performance. The hardware in the PS3 ISNT what it was supposed to be. Tech sites have proven that.. find any unbiased (IE not hired by MS or Sony) tech site and check the results.. its been proven. You cannot make hardware faster by coding.. its like saying if they worked harder they could make FarCry work on 400Mhz with a 8MB S3. Its just not possible. Also the seek times on the blue ray make it that much slower as well. If you really want me to put those comparisons up I will. The fact is the PS3 is a weaker unit.. not just coding but it fails with the hardware.. no matter what you do you cannot make 256MB of system RAM become 512.. it just wont happen. BluRay being in it, is nothing special and its has a slower seek time over the disc.

I enjoy Resistance on my PS3.. well, kind of.. Gears in my 360 gets more play time.. and the Wii is there for parties. I gots all three.. I have realworld play with them and have compared games on all three (COD3) The PS3 has closer draw, fuzzier texturing/shading, brownish blacks and well isnt up to what it was supposed to be.

Your ratings also make little sense.. .4 for the best Online service created.. (this said not by me but by PC Tech mags) how about removing points for SOny's broken online system? or giving low points because MS is giving the consumer a choice about HD Media and not forcing it down their throats? and well, MS's hardware is proven to be better and faster.. you can argue that until your blue in the face.. but it wont change. But still you give the PS3 a higher hardware rating.

Truly how much time do you play your PS3, 360 and Wii. Of said units what one have you had the most fun on.. and of said units have you had the best multiplayer online experiance?

Phoenix09
optimized driver/frimware and codeing DOSE improve things and sometimes drastically,look at the dffreance in first gen Xbox/PS2 games and this coding ALONE....

Tech sites can bitch all they want without games to back up their claims I would rather hold off dismissing the PS3 just yet

if anything I have always thought and figured the PS3 is, at best as powerful as the Xbox was compared to the PS2 now from some of the newer shows that they have not mastered the coding which means games cant run at max power on the system.

Ypu cant tell e coding dos not matter look at Q4 on the 360 >>

Yes compression techniques and shading techniques get better and allow the machine to produce better looking things.. TRUE. But if one machine has more powerful hardware then the other (360 > PS3), in the same amount of time that the PS3 takes to get better coding techniques the 360 will have had the same time.. the stronger performer (360) will then stay more powerful. 360 devers havent mastered that machine either.. they are both ready to open up and show us more then we have seen. But one can only go so far.. its a fact, the PS3 is limited by not only the RAM but by the lack of power the Cell truly has. But like the PS2 it will get better games, but it will top out before the 360 ever will. Hardware is hardware.

Hell the PS3 couldnt even make its launch games look any better then Xbox 360 launch games.. AFTER A YEAR OF EXTRA DEVELOPMENT!!! Come on, man. Facts speak for themselves.. what you think and feel wont change the truth.. Hell I think all games and movies should be free and I should be able to sleep with 40 women a night.. doesnt mean its true. I am starting to doubt that you even own either a PS3 or 360 and if you dont then you truly have NO basis for comparision of the units or their abilities.. just the same as a person with only one of them cannot truly say. People who dedicate their life to hardware and know the ins and outs have given REAL WORLD comparisons and proven 360 to be the leader in power.. NOW and LATER it will still have more power. What your sitting here telling me is This 3.2 (single core multi SPE) Ghz machine with 256Mhz can do everything your 3.2 (triple core)Ghz machine with 512MB can do and will eventually be better. The memory is the big thing man.. also the fact that the 3.2Ghz Cell operates in the same threshold as a 1.6Ghz Mac.. GAH!!!.

Your prowling of the net and reading Sony propaganda, and that of fanboys and not looking at the cold hard PROVEN facts is seriously clouding your judgement

Quote:

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his 3.2 (single core multi SPE) Ghz machine with 256Mhz can do everything your 3.2 (triple core)Ghz machine with 512MB can do and will eventually be better.

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Sorry should read 256MB.. LOL

Silly I R

Phoenix09
Ok,so whats so bad about letting all facts come together and and givieng the PS3 6 months before total write off?

the WII is worth getting NAO and in time will only get better it took the 360 1 year to improve and its still not worth the price.

Does all this mean the PS3 will be worth more than 400 even if it was more powerful than the 360 No dose this make sony a better corperation no I merely want all the facts before I pass judgment on a console.

I understand Zippy.

I have read lots of your posts on this site and usally I agree with you and dont even bother posting cause I would only be repeating what you say :P

Thing is, even in 6 months, the PS3 will still have the same power and the 360 will have the same power. Devers will learn new tricks on both to squeeze more out of both.. but the base starting point will always prevail. Like adding octane boost to a car, ya my 79 mustang will run a little better and maybe even keep up with a newer 'stang, but put the same boost into the better car and well, no hope.. What the consolewars will come down to now is what games come out on what system. Hell the 360 can look 1,000x better and lose because of exclusives.

In my opinion the 360 is well worth the money. Hell $399US for an HD system, that has a slew of amazing games on it.. Oblivion, GRAW, Gears of War, Viva Pinata, F.E.A.R, Lego Star Wars II (freaking awesome game if you like Starwars and Legos) COD2, COD3.. hell there are more but those are the ones that pop into my head right now, and others heading to it, Stanglehold, Alan Wake, Crysis, Blue Dragon, Halo 3..... I mean wow. Yes alot are avalible or will be on PS3, but at cheaper price for the console and a better graphical experiance then the PS3, the 360 price speaks for itself. Hell I blew so much money on the PS3 and so far have been massivly dissapointed with it. When I got my 360 aside from a few glitches here and there I didnt feel ripped off. Heck if my PC didnt do alot of things a console didnt do my recent purchase in the spring of my new PC would make me feel ripped.. $1500 on a system that my 360 so far can keep up graphically with.. BAH!

Again, I do like my PS3, its nice.. but it isnt what it was supposed ot be.. thats just the way it is.. I know its hard to accept.. hell one of my buddies still wont accept it even after playing and pretty much agreeing.. he just sits there in the corner now shaking his head and asking Why WHY WHY!!!!!