Sony DRM breaks DVDs again

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One consumer who inquired about the defective DVDs was told by Sony that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer of his DVD player to provide a firmware update that fixes the playback problems with the technically "broken" DVDs.

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I don't think I would blame the consumer,and it shouldn't be the consumers responsibility.The manufacturer of the dvd player should have supplied the firmware upgrade.I find Sony to be a hypocrite when old Sony dvd players are having the same problems as the rest of the manufacturers,so Sony should have no right to tell people to contact the manufacturer when they are experiencing the same issues.

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I don't think I would blame the consumer,and it shouldn't be the consumers responsibility.The manufacturer of the dvd player should have supplied the firmware upgrade.I find Sony to be a hypocrite when old Sony dvd players are having the same problems as the rest of the manufacturers,so Sony should have no right to tell people to contact the manufacturer when they are experiencing the same issues.

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I agree 100%. I have a question though: I know that some HD-DVD and Blu-ray players are able to upgrade their firmware, but are there regular dvd players put there that are able to upgrade their firmware? (sorry for the noobish question, but I had no idea if they exist.)

F**k you Sony. Just give it up alreay and don't force the consumers to pay for your errors. It's your f**kin responsability Sony.

Wow. A firmware update on a standard DVD player? Seriously?

My ps3 Blu-ray player has been giving me problems with playing DVD movies with the ARccOC protection. This kind of BS made my friend throw his PS3 at a SUV while we egged the other day. That thing shattered on the SUV on impact. I should of went back and picked up the hard drive......

I am happy that i can make firmware updates on one of my player. This soon will be cracked and should be just a matter of time.

Originally posted by borhan9:

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I am happy that i can make firmware updates on one of my player. This soon will be cracked and should be just a matter of time.

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its sad when you are forced to copy a movie just to get it to play or buy a new player because the makers demand it so and they wonder why some people refuse to put up with their tactics.

This bullshit affected me. You know how hard it is to explain that Sony is a *tard* to a Walmart clerk when returning their movies? I returned Casion Royale and Open Season for this reason. Guess what? I have purple editions that work just fine now.

So Sony, let me see here..... Your plan is to FORCE the customer to pirate your discs to use them? Isn't that like, the opposite of what you want to happen? God you're dumb.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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This bullshit affected me. You know how hard it is to explain that Sony is a fuktard to a Walmart clerk when returning their movies? I returned Casion Royale and Open Season for this reason. Guess what? I have purple editions that work just fine now.

So Sony, let me see here..... Your plan is to FORCE the customer to pirate your discs to use them? Isn't that like, the opposite of what you want to happen? God you're dumb.

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you managed to get them to take them back OMG!!
*mortal kombat:FLAWLESS VICTORY!*
1 for the consumer!

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its sad when you are forced to copy a movie just to get it to play or buy a new player because the makers demand it so and they wonder why some people refuse to put up with their tactics.

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I should clarify something although yes i bought it because i wanted the extra ability to play DivX and have no dramas about regional coding without having to make up backups. The player I bought was only $55 so i did not spend up big.

borhan9
anytime you have to replace a legit functioning player because they changed something in the new releases thats anti consumerism at its best and thus a reason to just give up on "retail" products.

Haha, I actually have an older Sony player that would not play the retail Casino Royale... good thing it's my 3rd player in the house! (It even chokes on some Dual-Layer discs for pete's sake!)

I think the DVD publisher, in this case Sony, has a responsibility to tell us if the disc has "X" type of copy protection and the manufacturer of the player should state "X" compatibility. It's no different than badging the player with the "DVD Video" logo, or "DIVX", "WMA", "JPEG" playback, etc.

Consumers should file a class action lawsuit, this is getting way out of control and will be even worse with the next-gen players.

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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Haha, I actually have an older Sony player that would not play the retail Casino Royale... good thing it's my 3rd player in the house! (It even chokes on some Dual-Layer discs for pete's sake!)

I think the DVD publisher, in this case Sony, has a responsibility to tell us if the disc has "X" type of copy protection and the manufacturer of the player should state "X" compatibility. It's no different than badging the player with the "DVD Video" logo, or "DIVX", "WMA", "JPEG" playback, etc.

Consumers should file a class action lawsuit, this is getting way out of control and will be even worse with the next-gen players.

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yes..its really is abotu time the indutry admits loss and dosent try and prevent DVDs being played without handing out new players or a 80$ refund to thos that are wiling to send in their old ones.

Sony has to be shitting me. Firmware updates!!! I'm the only person I have ever known that has an ethernet port on a SD dvd player (actually a network player). So the only possibilities for a firmware update would putting it on disc and mailing this out or wasting a blank cd or dvd. LOL Sony is so *bleep* stupid its funny. They break DVD specs and they want the CE (not including there shit CE co.) to fix it. Give me a break, anyone that supports Sony, Blu-ray, or the PS3 is a dip-shit. Which brings up this question if you support Sony and the above products how would you like Sony to "take" you.... with you bent over touching your toes, or on your back?

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Blu-ray accelerates introduction of new DRM technology 8:25AM, Monday 16th April 2007

The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that following breaches of the security of the high-definition format's AACS security technology, it has brought forward the planned release date of the BD-Plus (BD+), a more advanced anti-copying system.
BD+ is an entirely different encryption system to AACS.
Instead of each movie having the same encryption key, BD+ allows each disc to install a small piece of encryption software on a player, so that each disc has its own key.

A method for extracting Blu-ray keys was published in January (the rival HD DVD format, which also uses AACS, had already been cracked). As a result, the AACS licensing body last week released a security update that supplied new encryption keys for the affected discs. However this means that existing discs can no longer be played until the update is applied.

BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC.
This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

However, because discs are tied to a specific player you will not be able to sell them on once you have tired of them: no BD+ Blu-ray on eBay. It is also likely to make it impossible to create back-up copies of discs.

The Blu-ray Disc Association reports that player compatibility testing has ended and that studios have had test discs for the last few months. Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

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http://www.computerbuyer.co.uk/

Computerbuyer later amended the article to say this -

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The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that following breaches of the security of the high-definition format's AACS security technology, it has brought forward the planned release date of the BD-Plus (BD+), a more advanced anti-copying system.
BD+ is an entirely different encryption system to AACS. Instead of each movie having the same encryption key, BD+ allows each disc to install a small piece of encryption software on a player, so that each disc has its own key.

A method for extracting Blu-ray keys was published in January (the rival HD DVD format, which also uses AACS, had already been cracked). As a result, the AACS licensing body last week released a security update that supplied new encryption keys for the affected discs. However this means that existing discs can no longer be played until the update is applied.

BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles.

The Blu-ray Disc Association reports that player compatibility testing has ended and that studios have had test discs for the last few months.

Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

Simon Aughton

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The author said this in the comments section -

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We decided that it isn't entirely clear what the implications are in this respect. I'm trying to get clarification but as I currently understand it that statement was inaccurate. We shall see.

Apologies.

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(same link)

- None of which alters the fact that Blu-rays DRM is sound reason to give the whole thing a wide bearth.

They can do what they like pretty much when they like.
S*d that.

For those who think that it is self-evident that a non-burning drive could not be tied to a disc check this out & reconsider your perceptions -

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Sony patents anti-rental tech
Could be used in PlayStation 3, Blu-ray
By George T. Chronis 11/14/2005
NOV. 10 | It recently came to light that Sony Computer Entertainment received a U.S. patent exactly one year before on a one-system-one-disc technology that renders movie or game discs useless on more than one playback unit. If implemented, the technology would prevent affected discs from being rented or resold.

There is no evidence that the technology is slated for SCE's PlayStation 3, yet the digital rights management scheme has far-reaching implications for the video rental industry.

The patent describes a process by which every media disc is shipped with a unique registration key. The first time the media disc is inserted into a player, that key is read and the disc is registered by the player, then the original key on the disc is rendered unreadable. Any attempt to play a registered disc in another player will fail.

The PS3 will be equipped with the same Blu-ray disc drive hardware Sony intends to use in its consumer Blu-ray players. If the one-system-one-disc technology is added to Blu-ray drives on the PS3, the same easily could be done with consumer Blu-ray players and computer Blu-ray disc drives.

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http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6283697.html

- Sony & DRM.

After the root kit fiasco who'd trust them?

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BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC.
This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

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Okay, so they should really tell Netflix, Blockbuster, Hollywood Video and their brethren, that they are going to go out of business, because you will only be able to rent a movie once? Hmm... I'm sure that the last article explains that there will be a difference between "rental" and "retail" which could mean one of two things: It would be easier to copy/crack the "rental" version OR we are going backwards, and the video rental chains will have to PAY MORE for "rental" copies, much like VHS street dates were setup many years ago. (Remember when you could rent a movie, but had to wait a month or two to buy it? The video chains paid roughly $80+ for each VHS tape before street date.)

hughjars
go you!!

Most DVD players can be firmware upgraded and you don't need a NIC port. They will provide you with an ISO that you can burn to a disc and run in your player to update it. You really shouldn't have to do this and as usual Sony is out of line for what they have done here once again. Making an apology is not sincere when you continue to do the same thing over and over again.

I have a expensive Pioneer player that even when I rip a Sony protected disc will not play the verbal audio track but will play the background music. I can buy a $30 Magnavox that will play just about anything I throw at it, but my nice Pioneer craps out on me. I've talked to Pioneer, which is very difficult to do, and they are about worthless for help so I have a very nice player that doesn't work in most cases. I need to demand a firmware from Pioneer to see if it will fix the problem but haven't found the time and patients to do so yet.

Mr-Movies
SO Sony is saying go update your players when its not really a indutry standard since some do but most don't.

I may be noob to some of this, but tell me how a standard dvd player can read a "registration number", keep that in some kind of matrix, either damage the original disc or write to it so other players can tell its been "locked" and all this without somehow upgrading the hardware itself to either burn the disc or physicaly touch it in some other way. I understand DRM on digital files and watermarking or tagging a file for a single machine, but that is on a pc or computer device and the dvd player hardware doesnt have that functionality. I just dont understand how this can be implemented with an off the shelf 30 buck player from k-mart today. If you have to buy a new machine to enable this, that company would prolly not get many buyers, certainly I wont buy a machine that would support this.

Their intent isn't to screw up players it's to stop people from backing up their movies on a PC. Sony just doesn't seem to care about us and the other manufactures of SA players but the funny thing is, as mentioned previously, is that they are even screwing up their own SA's. As to how CSS and ARccOS (which writes bad target sectors) is too in depth for here and there is plenty of info about this on this forum and across the Internet.

Zippy
You got to love it they must think they are King of the planet, such arrogance.

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:

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Their intent isn't to screw up players it's to stop people from backing up their movies on a PC. Sony just doesn't seem to care about us and the other manufactures of SA players but the funny thing is, as mentioned previously, is that they are even screwing up their own SA's. As to how CSS and ARccOS (which writes bad target sectors) is too in depth for here and there is plenty of info about this on this forum and across the Internet.

Zippy
You got to love it they must think they are King of the planet, such arrogance.

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they do it with everything they do thats why they are failing now adays and if they keep at it tis going to heavily effect all their hardware I think they are starting to live off the brand they need to lose the arrogance and start being a a brand that makes worth while stuff or they will fail badly.

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BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC.
This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

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BAHASHAAHHAHAHAHAAHHH!!!!!~!!!! Hasn't anyone EVER heard of cracked firmware??? I mean; come one; this whole 'tying a disc to it's player' thing is soooo stupid when they don't even talk about the MAIN THING---THE FIRMWARE IN THE PLAYER@@@ I mean; dude; if you are simply able to extract the firmware out of one of these next-gen players; and a special 'someone' (HACKER, *cough**cough*) is able to hex edit the original firmware and all that other jazz.....by the time it's all said and done; all of this next gen CP will be useless; because I can guarantee that eventually somebody's gonna come out w/ hacked firmware for these players to where they'll simply ignore all of those 'title keys'; and eventually the player won't tell the difference whether the disc is pirated/locked or not.


I mean; come on people==we're halfway there already since the great Slysoft released their anydvdHD software.

Once hacked firmwares start showing up; these next gen formats' DRM demise is going to be synonymous with what happened with DVD's CSS.



So, sony; what do you think of them apples?



'Nuff Said;
--Halen5150

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[quote]BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC.
This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

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BAHASHAAHHAHAHAHAAHHH!!!!!~!!!! Hasn't anyone EVER heard of cracked firmware??? I mean; come one; this whole 'tying a disc to it's player' thing is soooo stupid when they don't even talk about the MAIN THING---THE FIRMWARE IN THE PLAYER@@@ I mean; dude; if you are simply able to extract the firmware out of one of these next-gen players; and a special 'someone' (HACKER, *cough**cough*) is able to hex edit the original firmware and all that other jazz.....by the time it's all said and done; all of this next gen CP will be useless; because I can guarantee that eventually somebody's gonna come out w/ hacked firmware for these players to where they'll simply ignore all of those 'title keys'; and eventually the player won't tell the difference whether the disc is pirated/locked or not.


I mean; come on people==we're halfway there already since the great Slysoft released their anydvdHD software.

Once hacked firmwares start showing up; these next gen formats' DRM demise is going to be synonymous with what happened with DVD's CSS.



So, sony; what do you think of them apples?



'Nuff Said;
--Halen5150[/quote]
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knowing sony they will make all the BR movies unplayable and have retail only get 10% of their money back from bad sales :X

so hard it is to find a copy protection scheme that is complex enough to thwart the abilities of AnyDVD (for a week or two) yet still play on the majority of dvd players. they must have run out of options within the parameters that old dvd player software can handle. im not even sure if you can update the firmware on some of the old players, hell some of the new ones too.

how much do you think i could get for a copy protection template? if anyone from a studio is reading this send me a PM.

The retailers are not going to be happy about this. The big retailers Sony's direct customers, and they might just listen to their big customers.

I don't know what percentage of players will not play these DVDs, but if the return-rate is high enough, the retailers may force Sony to change their methods (again). ...Maybe we should all go buy the DVDs just so we can return them!

Or, the retailers might put up big signs that say "WARNING - SONY DVDs MAY NOT PLAY IN YOUR PLAYER". That would probably slow sales enough to get Sony's attention.

Originally posted by DVDdoug:

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The retailers are not going to be happy about this. The big retailers Sony's direct customers, and they might just listen to their big customers.

I don't know what percentage of players will not play these DVDs, but if the return-rate is high enough, the retailers may force Sony to change their methods (again). ...Maybe we should all go buy the DVDs just so we can return them!

Or, the retailers might put up big signs that say "WARNING - SONY DVDs MAY NOT PLAY IN YOUR PLAYER". That would probably slow sales enough to get Sony's attention.

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I really wish they would it seems to take to long for consumer groups to get fired up it would help allot of people if the retailers would step up and tell the indutry its "tactics" are unneeded I really wish soemthing could be done about the seemingly ban retail chain stores are putting on used PC games but the ECS is to busy with polis and they are way to close to the indutry for my liking...

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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hughjars go you!!

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- I came back stronger zippy. ;)

The point folks, is not really even whether this is being applied right now or about to be applied or not.

The point is that the gang of manipulative liars (see their previous PR & root kit efforts) have spent a lot of hard cash & researched this.

Their intent and their track record in these matters are the point.

They are anti-consumer through and through.

......and juanpollo
Yes many regular SD DVDs are upgradable by firmwares without any underhand intent
(there is also a 'scene' of unoffical firmware writers expanding or correcting the capabilities of many regular SD DVD players/PC burners).

Sony is a 4 letter word. Ladies don't use 4 letter words and they
don't by products manufactured by them either.

Hughjars you are right! Firmware can be upgraded on a lot of players. Why do you think wally world pulled the hd04 dvd recorders from their shelves. I'll tell you why for those that don't know. These were stand alone dvd recorders with the ilo brand name. They were actually lite on recorders rebranded for the store. Who makes lite-on? Sony does. When the hackers figured out how to "upgrade" the firmware on their own SA recorders they unlocked features of the more expensive lite-on version. Hence one of the reasons sales dropped on the more expensive recorder. Why do you think the studios don't want SA dvd recorders on the market? The simple fact is they can be hacked along with SA players.
I say let them implement this garbage. When their DVD sales drop, player sales will drop, class action suits are filed (against a classless company), and the company goes into the red maybe thes idiots will finally learn.
We are the consumer, we have the power to keep you in business or put you out of business. Do as we ask or be out of a job!

same thing happened with the lord of the rings when the 4 disk collectors edition was released the dvd wouldn't even play in windvd's own software the encryption was so bad

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/74/295688#3005671

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/73/295688#2999036

So they are admitting it was a mistake after all :X

My thoughts, don't buy Sony. I have two of their players and they are just fine but this DRM nonsense is both invasive and offensive. It's time this company went down hard. That will only happen if we stop buying their product. I, for one, will never buy another Sony product of any sort for any reason. That's the simple and the short answer. If enough people follow that lead, perhaps more senior management at Sony will be dismissed or, best case, bye bye Sony and all of it's division

Watch, folks
There's gonna be a civil war between the retailers (Blockbuster, NETFLIX) and the manufacturers. SONY has gone too far even for the retailers of this crap.

Who on earth wants to copy 'The Holiday' ?

Originally posted by OFI:

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Who on earth wants to copy 'The Holiday' ?

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I think they test the waters with a mix of movies or just crappy ones 0-o

I use to buy everything sony till the rootkit scandal, since than have not and will not buy anything sony period, including thier media as well, I'm really militant about people like that mucking with me, sony can kiss my ass.

I put a Sony Audio CD in my machine and It made changes to my operating system that required formatting the drive and reinstall of OS. No more SONY media for me thanks.

I agree with FredBun
I will NEVER buy anything SONY because of that rootkit fiasco
Who is SONY anyway?
Their stuff has been crap for years
F*** SONY