Retailers not impressed with 2007 HD DVD or Blu-ray numbers

And who actually cares about purchasing the MPAA's lockdown on content via HDMI HDCP for a few more pixles, atm up-scaling dvd's look almost as good on a normal size 40" screen at 10 foot!

lets compare prices! blu-ray £25 the same film on DVD £8, hmm.

i'm sure at some point studios will start releasing big titles on HD only to force us all to change but, fuk them i have a pc wired to my screen and will download everything foc as i refuse to purchase new MPAA acceptable hobbled by DRM hardware/software!

This is the reality of the situation.

It's true that the HD DVD side has taken a big knock - but that only really means anything within the narrow confines of this early adopter/game console fan 'debate'.

In the wider world things are really little different this week than they were last.

High def discs are still invisible to the general public and the public shows no sign whatsoever of ditching 'ordinary' DVD, HD TV set-top boxes and (increasingly) downloading.

Everyone knows of the 2 I see HD DVD as the least worst option (by far) and I do not believe this is all over yet (and will not be for a long time to come).

But.

What has Blu-ray got?
They are still enormously dependent on the PS3 game console which is still extremely expensive compared to DVD players (and like it or not DVD is the yardstick in this).
Blu-ray movie sales are still tiny.
Similarly with the cost of Blu-ray movies, they are very expensive compared to DVD.

Despite all the chatter last week Blu-ray did not and is no nearer breaking into the mainstream mass-market.
Hollywood remains deeply divided, even after Warner goes in 5 or 6 mths time (which might not be all signed and sealed either, but that's another story).

I really enjoy high def but, like the vast majority, my new HD TV is in the 40 - 42" bracket.
Most of us simply do not have either the room or the inclination to give our living rooms over to be utterly dominated by a vast over-sized TV.

This also means that for a lot of people the differences between upscaled very inexpensive DVD and HD DVD or Blu-ray are simply not worth the premium
(which HD DVD could erode in a far more significant way than Blu-ray).

That's the BD problem right there.

They are far from home & dry in any of this.

I think this, more then anything else, is what forced Warner to make a move. They can say all they want that they made the decision for the benefit for the consumer, but if you believe that, your an idiot. They made the decison to force consumers into taking that next step and they saw blu ray as the more"profitable" one for them in the long run. With no region locking on HD DVD and potentially higher prices to come for blu ray, this is what was behind their decision.

I have no problem with companies making money, but don't BS about it and say we did this for the consumers benefit, because if you really look at it, there is no way anyone can agree with that.

Originally posted by stumpied:

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. With no region locking and potentially higher prices to come, this is what was behind their decision.

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Drm-Ray is region coded to enable global price fixing, its Hd-Dvd that is not!

Image:Blu-ray regions with key:

WB made the move bc of money. No other reason. Sony ponied up half a billion and Toshiba couldnt match it.

Money talks, BS walks kind of thing.

No matter, blu-ray has already been cracked, hacked, dissected and gorged by SlySoft anyways. I have Blade Runner on my hard drive as I type this, both directors edition and theatrical that was posted to the hdtv newsgroup this past week.

I know Blu Ray has region locking. . .i have edited my post to make that more clear.

I think in a couple of months/years, some people are not going to be so happy with their blu ray. . .especially the early adopters.

Originally posted by windsong:

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No matter, blu-ray has already been cracked, hacked, dissected and gorged by SlySoft anyways.

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- Not true.

Only the original AACS part of Blu-ray's 'security' has been broken
(similarly with HD DVD as they both use AACS).

BD+ and the hardware based watermarking has not been broken.
No matter the claims (by SlySoft and others) made a couple of months back that it is imminent
(and it remains to be seen what happens when BD+ is repeatedly revised as it was designed to do).

Originally posted by windsong:

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I have Blade Runner on my hard drive as I type this

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- There is a world of difference between putting your own retail disc onto your PCs harddrive and either ripping it to something else and/or sharing it.

Originally posted by windsong:

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both directors edition and theatrical that was posted to the hdtv newsgroup this past week.

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- Yes, for BD+ movies (until PowerDVD is forced to upgrade their Powerdvd ultra sodftware and close the loophole) there is a method of 'HDMI capture' out there
(at the cost of some quality too it should be noted).

It won't last and CyberLink will be made to alter their software.

This is not the same as everything being OK now and sorted either.

People who imagine Blu-ray is fine because they have heard a myth of it's DRM being broken are either deeply misinformed or fooling themselves or simply lying to talk up the format.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Blu-ray movie sales are still tiny.

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Uh, i don't know about you but i am guaranteed HD-DVD sales are even smaller so you cant say BLEEP about blu-ray sales, so if your gonna talk about small high definition disc sales make sure you include that HD-DVD is even smaller. Not trying to talk smack about hd-dvd but its true.

Peace

[i]What has Blu-ray got?
They are still enormously dependent on the PS3 game console which is still extremely expensive compared to DVD players (and like it or not DVD is the yardstick in this).

ps3 has got a game console and bluray player and xbox has only got a game console.

Blu-ray movie sales are still tiny.
Similarly with the cost of Blu-ray movies, they are very expensive compared to DVD.

compare hd dvd price to dvd

play fair and be fair hughjars

What has Blu-ray got?
They are still enormously dependent on the PS3 game console which is still extremely expensive compared to DVD players (and like it or not DVD is the yardstick in this).

ps3 has got a game console and bluray player and xbox has only got a game console.

Blu-ray movie sales are still tiny.
Similarly with the cost of Blu-ray movies, they are very expensive compared to DVD

compare hd dvd price to dvd

play fair and be fair hughjars

Originally posted by ali2007:

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compare hd dvd price to dvd

play fair and be fair hughjars

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- What do you mean "play fair"?

Why should anyone continue to involve comparisons with HD DVD in this anymore, you guys reckon Blu-ray have already won & HD DVD's dead.

OK then, let's go with that (for a while at least).

That being the case (and from the comments it's so true of so many of you) then it's perfectly fair to drop the HD DVD comparison & draw the comparison remaining that really matters in where this 'war' goes from here.

It was always going to come down to 'verses 'ordinary' DVD'.

.....and put like that Blu-ray are no better off today than they were last Monday.

As far as the mainstream a/v mass-market goes they are still almost completely invisible
(in fact when this 'war' has been mentioned much at all it has been things like where CNBC were talking a couple of days back about Microsoft were smart to stay out of the 'old tech' disc wars and quietly gathering studio support for the new high tech & growing download methods).

In fact, put like that, considering Blu-ray pricing, players and movie availability they are (almost 2 years in - IIRC the 1st BD Samsung launched in spring 2006) a zillion miles away from escaping the niche.

The facts are there, Blu-ray has not just a mountain to climb but an entire range.
Between HD TV set-top box DVRs, upscaling regular DVD and downloading it could just be that Sony got suckered into spending a vast amount of money and effort fighting the wrong unwinnable war (and in the process pi$$ing their gaming lead away with it).

.....and put like that some of you know perfectly well what I'm pointing out is absolutely true.
No more hiding behind comments about HD DVD (if you really are so confident that Blu-ray really has 'won', anything.
Isn't that the whole point of the thread topic?).

It's been said a few times and I think it's true, this is far from working out yet, anyone making hasty judgements right now is just guessing and cannot know how this is all going to pan out.
There's plenty of scope for more surprises to come yet.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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There's plenty of scope for more surprises to come yet.

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like the CES surprise you yourself were so sure about? what was that again?

hopefully the sub $300 Blu-ray player hitting Walmart's shelves will help jump start the evolution of HD media to the masses. also the $350 phillips set will surely help sales. boy those prices sure are coming down. but i thought only HD-DVD was going to see those cheap players...we know, we know, we know HD-DVD surely will have their own cheap players, but i must ask and im sure you know its coming, what are you going to watch on those fabulous players?

back in april only 28% of americans owned HDTVs so i wouldn't put too much into this. you cant compare and cite that HD media accounted for x percentage of disc sales when the market for HD is drastically smaller than that for standard dvds.

as i pointed out before 9% of the estimated population owning dvd players bought Pirates 3, and 6% of the estimated Blu-ray population bought Pirates 3 in its initial week of release. overall media sale's growth has diminished, has it not?

Originally posted by hughjars:

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(in fact when this 'war' has been mentioned much at all it has been things like where CNBC were talking a couple of days back about Microsoft were smart to stay out of the 'old tech' disc wars and quietly gathering studio support for the new high tech & growing download methods)

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maybe BAY was right afterall...

camaro17, watch the language and you are toeing the line with starting a flame.

They should not feel that bad they were making breakthroughs this year. It was only coming out of the background this year. I am sure this year 2008 will be a bigger boom than ever before.

What is surprising is that nobody seems to realize that the reason the sales are so poor is that HD discs in both formats cost TOO MUCH. Prices are set by what the market will bear and it isn't bearing $30 for a movie. Even standard DVDs sell much better at $10. When they drop the price, the discs will fly off the shelves of either format. If HD-DVD really wants to win, then price the discs at $15-$20. DA!

Originally posted by hastypete:

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What is surprising is that nobody seems to realize that the reason the sales are so poor is that HD discs in both formats cost TOO MUCH. Prices are set by what the market will bear and it isn't bearing $30 for a movie. Even standard DVDs sell much better at $10. When they drop the price, the discs will fly off the shelves of either format. If HD-DVD really wants to win, then price the discs at $15-$20. DA!

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an NPD survey at the end of last year reported that price was a factor and until hi-def became cheaper than dvd's the main populous would not bother as there is little gain in quality over the up-scaled dvd on a normal screen at 10 feet.

for Hi-Def media to make its mark prices need to be less than dvd because of HDCP (HDMI DRM) its not a case of simply purchasing the player and everything is ok, you need to purchase a HDCP DRM compliant screen, a HDCP compliant processor/amplifier and the Drm-Ray or Hd-DvD player(if you go with the latter you can remove the HDCP as HD-DvD DRM is broken but BD+ on Drm-Ray is still intact)

Drm-Ray DRM BD+




NPD Group reports on HD disc format adoption

Originally posted by hyperlink:

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The NPD Group released results from a HDTV owner survey that showed even though 52% of respondents were aware that HD disc players were available, only 11% planned on buying one in the next six months. It turns out that most people are happy with their standard DVD players and unhappy with the price of the HD units (62% waiting for prices to fall). Even though respondents were more aware of HD DVD than Blu-ray (29% vs. 20%), it's not a glowing outcome for fewer than 1-in-3 owners of HDTV's to not know about these formats by name.

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BD+ has not been compromised, yet

Originally posted by hyperlink:

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Jan 9th 2008
Despite SlySoft announcing that BD+ was compromised, and promising an update to its AnyDVD HD software, -- which enables you to rip a Blu-ray discs -- here we are a few months later and the latest is that SlySoft recommends that you buy HD DVD. But with Warner recently going blu, a question at the Blu-ray press conference was "did BD+ have anything to do with their decision?" And while Warner's answer was "no", afterwards it was brought to our attention by a Fox employee that BD+ has not been compromised. But, if that's true, then where do these HD Fox titles distributed via illegal means come from? The situation is actually hilariously ironic, as in love with BD+ that Fox seems to be, high quality transfers of their movies still make it onto the internet because of the European releases of HD DVD -- not distributed by Fox and thus not Blu-ray exclusive -- are only protected with AACS. So if you think about it, without BD+, users would have to buy Fox titles to get them on their computer for other uses, but as it stands, it makes more sense for them skip laying down any cash and download the movies instead, nice job guys.

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