Well I only use mine 3-4 hours a week, so I'm not overly concerned about it.

Even @ 500hr's it'll be good for a few years yet and by then we'll be on to something else anyway.

Originally posted by nonoitall:

---

So, HD-DVD is selling like hotcakes, Blu-ray is struggling to catch up technologically, and Blu-ray's prices continue to escalate. And yet, Hollywood has decided for us that Blu-ray wins.

---

lol that is such an insane ridiculous comment that totally ignores all facts and modern day reality that it even defies an attempt to supply a counter argument - I congratulate you for that - you win. At least we now know what happened to the Iraqi minister of information after the second gulf war.

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

but loads of hddvds and no hddvd player in a couple years when you cant find them in any stores what you gonna do

---

- Well as I said lots of us are buying a 2nd HD DVD player (at rock bottom prices) to put away for that eventual day.

Now I don't know about you but I've never had a DVD player last less than 5 years.

So 2x HD DVD players = I reckon that's at least 10yrs covered.

I don't think anyone will be too worried if we can see that kind of perfectly reasonable life-span for our movies & players.

(if you really imagine you'll be making a fortune gouging people looking for an HD DVD player on ebay then I think you're in for a shock; from laptop/notepad drives to XBox add-ons to stand-alones I just don't think there's going to be any shortage for a very long time to come)

Icanbe

Thanks for that.

Yea, where ya been hugh?

---

Quote:

---

Now I don't know about you but I've never had a DVD player last less than 5 years.

---

I have a toshiba dvd player I purchased about 8 years ago, it still works, gets a little cranky now and then, but overall still works pretty good.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

but loads of hddvds and no hddvd player in a couple years when you cant find them in any stores what you gonna do

---

- Well as I said lots of us are buying a 2nd HD DVD player (at rock bottom prices) to put away for that eventual day.

Now I don't know about you but I've never had a DVD player last less than 5 years.

So 2x HD DVD players = I reckon that's at least 10yrs covered.

I don't think anyone will be too worried if we can see that kind of perfectly reasonable life-span for our movies & players.

(if you really imagine you'll be making a fortune gouging people looking for an HD DVD player on ebay then I think you're in for a shock; from laptop/notepad drives to XBox add-ons to stand-alones I just don't think there's going to be any shortage for a very long time to come)

Icanbe

Thanks for that.

---

lol im not realy considering running out and buying 20 of them to sell later cos i couldnt afford it but just because dvd players last years doesnt meen hddvd players will.

i think for the people that already have players it is well worth spending cash that you wouldnt normally to stock pile on movies before they become hard to find cos otherwise you are gonna be stuck with a player and nothing to watch but i wouldnt make every effort to buy hundreds just incase the players do break after a couple years.

you have to remember hddvd is relativly new technology and given the race to get hddvd players on the market to beat out blu ray it may be rushed technology. they just havnt been around long enough to find out how long they last.

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

im not realy considering running out and buying 20 of them to sell later cos i couldnt afford it but just because dvd players last years doesnt meen hddvd players will.

---

- Glad to hear it, the Karma Police would only get you later! ;)

I think you are forgetting that HD DVD is closely related to SD DVD (and in ways that Blu-ray is not.....one of the reasons why BD is necessarily more expensive to produce than SD DVD or HD DVD is that because of the finer pitch of the pits it uses the drive has to be much more accurate than what has gone before. It has to be produced using much more precise (read expensive) parts made to a tighter/higher spec - but what happens as those parts wear?

Seriously, the jury is still out as to how BD will last over time & who has cut corners to cut costs)

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

i think for the people that already have players it is well worth spending cash that you wouldnt normally to stock pile on movies before they become hard to find

---

- Agree 100%.
Right now it all = a very high quality product at a seriously great value price.

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

cos otherwise you are gonna be stuck with a player and nothing to watch

---

- Nope, not true at all.

Not only does everyone have all their existing HD DVD movies to watch on their HD DVD players but the Toshiba players (in other words all of them) have an excellent and fully deserved reputation as excellent upscaling SD DVD players.

That means we have (right now) about 450 western market HD DVDs (800+ globally) to watch and we will always have the 90,000+ SD DVD movies to select from.

Content is never really going to be a problem.

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

you have to remember hddvd is relativly new technology and given the race to get hddvd players on the market to beat out blu ray it may be rushed technology.

---

- I think you have forgotten how HD DVD was very closely related to SD DVD technology.
The laser was different and the little computer inside was more complex than what had gone before but there was not too much else besides that.

I would put your comments back to a Blu-ray owner.

We know that the BD drive mechanism had to be much more accurate and complex.
What we have yet to find out & see is to how low a price those components were built to and what happens as they wear.

Of course it's true that at least a Blu-ray/PS3 owner can go and get a new one but that's not exactly a credible welcome answer for the mass-market now is it?

Quote:

---

Of course it's true that at least a Blu-ray/PS3 owner can go and get a new one but that's not exactly a credible welcome answer for the mass-market now is it?

---

yup im a ps3 owner and i really wouldnt want to spend money on another if possible, thats why watching blurays on it worries me so i dont do it, i bought it as a games consol not a next gen movie player. am i right in thinking that when playing a game the laser is not constantly reading the disc whereas when watching a movie it is. hopefully by not watching movies on i can extend its life a little but i fully expect it to screw up eventually. add to the fact i dont yet have a hdtv and watching sddvd's really doesnt bother me so at the moment i have no need to use my ps3 as a blu ray player.

didnt even think about the fact that the hddvd players are upscalers for sddvd, in that case $80 is a great price, you couldnt buy a top end dvd player for that.

i knew i didn't waste my money on an HD DVD player!!
...but dang....im really gonna hate getting a blu ray player.....f#ck it...i'll be one of those losers that use HD DVD...forever....i'll get some HD-DVD MEDIA from china direct....like 400 blank discs......then i'll ripp all my blu ray with my blu ray reader.....i'll make them MKV files...reburn them to HD DVD....but the protection will be an issue as no new hd-dvd ripping software will continue to be made....I'LL SCRIPT MY OWN APPS.....ya ...all have to learn 2 new comp languages....find 20 hours a week to develop...ya totally worth it!

just an HD-DVD fanboy gone insane!
-tripplite

okay so say a movie cost $30 normal & they are on sale for $10 how is that not cheaper? even if the format is dying there are plenty of people out there who own an hd-dvd player & i bought an extra xbox add on for $49 the other night for backup, besides you can still buy betamax & laser disk players used on e-bay & new if you look hard so the format will always be around a little, oh there are dual format players still out there too!

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

yup im a ps3 owner and i really wouldnt want to spend money on another if possible, thats why watching blurays on it worries me so i dont do it, i bought it as a games consol not a next gen movie player. am i right in thinking that when playing a game the laser is not constantly reading the disc whereas when watching a movie it is. hopefully by not watching movies on i can extend its life a little but i fully expect it to screw up eventually. add to the fact i dont yet have a hdtv and watching sddvd's really doesnt bother me so at the moment i have no need to use my ps3 as a blu ray player.

---

Yea, I remember when the PS2 had the same issue. I used it to watch DVD's all the time, basically it worked as a standalone. It finally crapped out after about 3-4 years of use.

Originally posted by tin23uk:

---

didnt even think about the fact that the hddvd players are upscalers for sddvd, in that case $80 is a great price, you couldnt buy a top end dvd player for that.

---

Been saying this all along, nobody is left out, they are still excellent SD DVD upscalers - best on the market. You can also get Blu-ray exclusives on import HD DVD - region free!

---

$10 a HD-DVD is great, comparing to $20-$30... of course, get them while you can :)

the question is, are you buying them b/c they are cheap or are you buying them b/c you like them? hey, $10 is still $10 right? i resisted the temptation, $30 for Bourne trilogy is a steal! But you know what? sigh, it's till $30... anyhow, i'm not buying anything at the moment (just want to have some extra cash on hand, economy is not doing too well you know).

perhaps, the $5 sale is around the corner...

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

---

perhaps, the $5 sale is around the corner...

---

Yea, I've been watching DeepDiscount for some time now. They first started off anywhere from 15-18 dollars. Then they dropped 'em down to around 12-15 dollars. Now they are at 9-15 dollars for most HD DVD titles. I can see them dropping the price even more in the near future.

---

Originally posted by goodswipe:

---

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

---

perhaps, the $5 sale is around the corner...

---

Yea, I've been watching DeepDiscount for some time now. They first started off anywhere from 15-18 dollars. Then they dropped 'em down to around 12-15 dollars. Now they are at 9-15 dollars for most HD DVD titles. I can see them dropping the price even more in the near future.

---

if not and if the price stays at $10, their 20% sale is around May/June, so you can still save some bucks :)

---

WTF if your HD-DVD player breaks in five years you may get that same movie you just bought for $10 now in blu for $10 so you still save money

I have to switch, not happy but I gambled won't be investing in titkes that's for sure

Personally i disagree with people's view on buying a 2nd or 3rd HD-DVD player for backup, i.e. what if my first player is broken? Yes, they're cheap now and you can stock up all you want, but that's not what my argument is about.

Well, it's a dead format, meaning there will be very little or no future supports (both software and hardware). It's reasonable to assume that you just want to enjoy HD-DVD right now b/c the cheap hardwares and fire sale on the softwares. Not to mention that the exclusive titles gonna take a while to get ported over to BDs.

Buy 2nd or 3rd HD-DVD player for "just in case" is like buying two or more cars of the same model. I know you love the player/car, but do you really want to drive/use the exact same one after the first one dies? Not to mention you probably tempted by new models by the time your first player/car dies, but knowing hard to get parts/supports for your player/car blows, doesn't it?

I say, just enjoy it for the time being w/o worrying too much and you can slowly replace your current HD-DVD collection with BD down the road (or you don't have to, jump on the VOD wagon or something).

O.K. please pick your side.....
Team 1 Team 2
------------------------- -----------------------
HD-DVD Blu-ray
Beta-max VHS
Laser-disc DVD
8-Track Tape Player Cassette Player

... the rest I'll leave up to your imagination of what
other "things" fall under which team.
But haven't you noticed that there is always people on
"Team 2" that never own things that "Team 1" has owned??!!
Cheers!

Originally posted by rlessmue:

---

O.K. please pick your side.....
Team 1 Team 2
------------------------- -----------------------
HD-DVD Blu-ray
Beta-max VHS
Laser-disc DVD
8-Track Tape Player Cassette Player

... the rest I'll leave up to your imagination of what
other "things" fall under which team.
But haven't you noticed that there is always people on
"Team 2" that never own things that "Team 1" has owned??!!
Cheers!

---

Sorry the team format got messed up...
Team 1 (HD-DVD,Beta-max,Laser-disc,8-Track Tape Player..)
Team 2 (Blu-ray,VHS,DVD, Cassette Player...)

Originally posted by rlessmue:

---

Originally posted by rlessmue:

---

O.K. please pick your side.....
Team 1 Team 2
------------------------- -----------------------
HD-DVD Blu-ray
Beta-max VHS
Laser-disc DVD
8-Track Tape Player Cassette Player

... the rest I'll leave up to your imagination of what
other "things" fall under which team.
But haven't you noticed that there is always people on
"Team 2" that never own things that "Team 1" has owned??!!
Cheers!

---

Sorry the team format got messed up...
Team 1 (HD-DVD,Beta-max,Laser-disc,8-Track Tape Player..)
Team 2 (Blu-ray,VHS,DVD, Cassette Player...)

---

Wow, way to stay on topic man!

rlessmue FTW!!

Quote:

---

WTF if your HD-DVD player breaks in five years you may get that same movie you just bought for $10 now in blu for $10 so you still save money

---

Hmm, my DVD player from 8 years ago still works fine.

---

Hmmm Didn't 8Tracks pre-date Cassettes? and LaserDisc predated DVD?
HD DVD and Blu-ray released about the same time.

BTW, what makes anyone think that Blu-Ray spec 4.0 (or whatever the Next Great Thing is) will play current Blu-Ray disks? In another few years Sony etc will be wanting you to buy your media all over again anyway.

Quote:

---

Now I don't know about you but I've never had a DVD player last less than 5 years.

---

I've owned more than 10 dvd players and dvd recorders (each priced from $50 to more than $1000 each) and have only had 2 of them go bad within a 2 year lifespan.... BOTH of which were SONY's. I'll never buy another Sony tv or dvd player.

It seems some refuse to accept the complete picture here and want to call a result long before anything is even remotely close to being that conclusive.

Blu-ray has not suddenly started selling millions of players and discs and compared to SD DVD it's performance is distinctly underwhelming.

Depending on which stats you believe Blu-ray is either very slightly ahead of DVD or very slightly behind DVD after 3 years in.
Either way it's very close.

But remember that DVD never started off by being built in to a big brand game console that was always bound to sell quickly in the multi-millions.

So it's worth pointing out that although Blu-ray 'won' the tussle between it and HD DVD there is absolutely no guarantee that Blu-ray will win the real war and become 'the next DVD'
(which is impossible anyways as that market no longer exists as it was with HD TV DVRS, downloading and all the other routes to high def video).

It is still likely that Blu-ray will fail to break out of the niche & go on & become 'the next DVD'.

This is particularly so after the initial reports of Toshiba's new 'Super Upconversion' DVD player.
This new DVD player uses regular SD DVD and appears to be a very impressive performer and once again they will be a much less expensive player.

These new DVD players do what forensic video enhancement does, they can scan X number of previous frames and X number of the coming frames in real-time to gather and display more detail than is apparant on a single frame of video on the SD DVD disc.

.....and as forensic science shows us, yes, you really can get more real detail than what is apparant on just a single frame this way.

If people thought upscaled SD DVD was so close to high def as to make the high def premium bad value guess how they are going to judge these new DVD players compared to the premium Blu-ray demands (and for the movie discs too), eh?

All ways around it's very clever stuff.
There'll be no expensive new disc media or player names or big price tickets or a/v receivers etc etc needed to scare people off with.

Being able to keep regular SD DVD movies in production (particularly as Blu-ray disc production is still limited and expensive) and all our SD DVD libraries valid is one hell of a hook......especially as the player will be cheap & do everything today's DVD players can do and yet perform at a level very close (if not quite to the nth degree) at the level high def disc players can manage.
One might say 'only' having DTS/DD would be a let-down but I think this will be utterly irrelevant to the mass-market.

Blu-ray may very well end up another dead-end, albeit a slightly longer lived one and one with a life as a game console game media, but nevertheless, as far as movies go, just as much a failure & a limited life niche product as HD DVD was.

The Blu-ray fanclub might just want to hold off on the gloating for a while yet
(especially with the news that they really are not going to push for lower - SD DVD player competitive - prices any time soon
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13131.cfm ).

Hi. I started in 65 with cassete, reel to reel in 67, reel to reel quad in 68. Did you know, that if you have some 8 tracks, either stereo or quad, that they are playable on a reel to reel recoder at the 3 3/4 inch per sec. You have to transfer the tape from the damaged cassette to a reel, but the tracks are the same, and both have a 3 3/4 speed. Beta was next, I only have 3 machines still working, still transferring old beta b/w movies to dvd (another 20 years of life). then there were the 8 panasonics dvd recorders (they never lasted me more than a year or two. ( DMR30, DMR50, DMR55, 5x ES20 ( I REALLY LIKED THEM ), TWO CENTRIOUS RECORDERS, AN LG450, THIS YEAR I'M GOING WITH 2X LG850, AND 2X SONY RD-X330. FIVE YEARS FROM NOW IT WILL BE LITTLE SILVER CUBES. MAYBE THEY WILL BE CHEAPER. REGARDS JACK

It just never ceases to amaze me, now that toshiba hd is out, now you can buy one of thier players for $79, you know they are not giving it away, they want to get back at least what it cost them, meaning thats what those damn things really cost to begin with, and yet sony will continue getting thier ridiculious price for thier blue ray, and we the stupid consumer will pay it.

And yet I have seen these blurays and hd's, have seen them on my friends 32" lcd screen, not much of a difference at all, even at a 40", I did see a difference when you get bigger than than, other wise a waste of money.

Its all good that we have the lower prices but wat is it good for when the HD DVD format is basically obselete now. It would just be a waste of money. The best way to deal with this kinda thing is to by Microsoft's XBox 360 and have a multiple use device.